The King Loves: Episodes 33-34
by murasakimi
This is it, guys—the moment we’ve all be waiting for. The gloves are finally off, and I have to admit that though I’ve grown a bit impatient over these past few episodes waiting for the central conflict to kick into overdrive, now that it’s finally here, I’ve discovered that I’m actually not ready to deal with the consequences. I think I may need some time to get over everything that’s just happened, but also someone to hold my hand from here on out, because things are getting dark.
EPISODE 33 RECAP
As Won prepares for his wedding ceremony, he spies a bouquet of red peonies nearby, and thinks of his mother. He recalls bringing a red peony to a depressed and isolated Princess Wonsung as a young boy, and how happy it made her.
Won tells us in voiceover that sometimes his mother would cry because of the red peonies, and when he would ask her why she was crying, she had replied through tears that she wished she had never known of the flower, or come to like it.
Won readies him for his wedding, then walks out, as he thinks to himself:
“Mother’s words took root in my heart and became a thorn bush. Whenever I had almost forgotten, the thorns would prick me. However beautiful the flower, I should not love it and forget about it. Only give it the love I can do without, so that I can always turn from it—discard it. I thought that I was being smart, and was doing just that.”
As he speaks, scenes of him, San, and Rin play through his mind.
He pauses and we go back the kiss at the end of the last episode from Won’s perspective as he adds forebodingly, “I was wrong.”
We cut to the king and Princess Wonsung as they meet on their way to the throne room, where they will wait for the new royal couple and receive their greetings after the wedding ceremony. They comment on each other’s ill-stricken appearances to a neutral effect, before Princess Wonsung dismisses Boo-yong from the wedding party.
She turns to the king for support, but instead he warns her to flee while she can, since braving Princess Wonsung’s ire may cost her her life. Boo-yong smartly decides to heed his advice, and Princess Wonsung just serenely watches her go.
The ceremony begins, and though Dan smiles when Won stands across from her on the altar, her smile fades when she sees that his expression is hard, and eyes distant.
In the throne room, Won’s parents await the new couple’s arrival to receive their royal greetings. Princess Wonsung remarks on how mandarin ducks mate for life, as she nostalgically eyes the two mandarin duck figurines, customary at weddings.
The king recites a similar sentiment to Princess Wonsung’s surprise, since he uses the exact words he had told her on their wedding night when she asked what the duck figurines represented.
She says wistfully that he used to answer all her questions back then. The statement makes him pause and he turns to study her thoughtfully, then asks out of genuine concern why she looks unwell. She dodges his question anxiously, then diverts the conversation to another topic.
Won and Dan approach the throne room, and Won uses the moment alone to apologize in advance for not sharing the customary drink with her on their first night; he promises to visit later, then tries to excuse himself.
Dan attempts to stop him from leaving by using his waiting parents as an excuse, but Won assures her that his mother and father probably have a lot to catch up on and won’t even notice that he’s not there.
Won goes directly to Geumgajeong and acts unaffected when he sees Rin waiting for him. He casually states that he figured Rin was long gone by now, since he even missed Dan’s wedding.
Rin requests a private audience with Won, and things get a little tense when Rin blocks Won’s way in an attempt to get Won to speak with him. Rin follows Won inside and immediately asks for Won’s permission to marry San. Gah, please tell me you thought this through, Rin.
Won responds that the mourning period for Minister Eun is still ongoing, and thus it would be inappropriate to hold a wedding within the family.
But Rin doesn’t back down and argues that through the marriage Won will have a powerful set of allies beside him. He also refers to himself and San as a couple (as if they were already married), and explains himself by stating that people are gossiping that Won killed Minister Eun out of his great desire to marry San and gain her assets.
This gets Won’s blood going, and he asks if that’s the best excuse Rin could think of for wanting to marry San (that it’s all for Won’s sake). Rin begs Won to let San go, so Won tosses the order scroll he had his mother approve, which gives San legal authority over her father’s assets. He adds that San will need to stay beside Won and execute his orders as his subject, and as the steward of her father’s estate.
Rin explodes and asks if Won intends to keep San in a cage for his own amusement. Won throws Rin’s rage back at him and asks if Rin understands what he has sacrificed for Rin’s sake, only for Rin to stab him in the back this way.
Rin demands to know who killed Minister Eun, and if it was Princess Wonsung. Won cuts to the heart of his fears and asks Rin what he wants: San, or his title. He mentions Rin’s secret meeting with the king and Prince Gangyang, when Rin should have been doing his job as inspector general.
Won states that he would have simply given Rin his position if he had asked him back when he still trusted him. Rin is completely taken aback, and knows that no matter what he says, Won won’t believe him. (How about trying anyway!?)
Rin half-demands/half-begs Won to give San up again, then half-warns/half-threatens to fight him if Won doesn’t. At his boiling point, Won beats Rin to the punch and declares war by ordering Rin imprisoned for abandoning his post and for spreading slanderous word about Princess Wonsung.
We return to the throne room, where Dan greets Won’s parents alone. The king isn’t even surprised that Won couldn’t be bothered to show his face. He makes a snide comment to Dan as he leaves, suggesting that she should watch herself and do what she can to keep herself alive.
Princess Wonsung also stops by Dan on her way out to ask if Rin was at her wedding, but she doesn’t wait for her to finish her thought. She walks away after confirming that Rin was absent, startling Dan with her cool indifference.
Meanwhile, San is also being held prisoner, and tries to flee to no avail. She outsmarts a pair of court ladies and is successful in escaping from her enclosure, only to run directly into Won’s path. He asks knowingly if she came to the palace to see him, so she replies that it was her intention originally, but she changed her mind at the last minute.
She starts to recount the events and mentions running into Rin, before awkwardly trailing off. Won remains tight-lipped on The Incident, but says that he gets it. She doesn’t understand why the guards brought her back under Won’s orders when she tried to leave the palace, so he explains that he did it to protect her from the people who wish to harm her, and from those who killed her father.
She’s surprised, but then weirded out after she asks Won about his wedding, and he replies disinterestedly that it happened, and it’s over now.
He registers her confusion, then stops to ask her tenderly if she’s been crying a lot lately. He comments that he wasn’t there for her, then takes her hand and tries to get her to come with him, but she pulls away. She says that she’ll leave now that she’s seen him and fulfilled the promise that the ring represents.
Won asks if she understands what a royal order from the crown prince means, since disregarding it is a big “no-no.”
Some of Won’s bodyguards take Rin to his cell, but en route, they are ambushed by Moo-suk and his men, who rescue Rin. They flee via some back staircases, where Song In is waiting.
He asks Rin pointedly if he’s going to San, before telling him that it’s too late, since Won got to her first. Rin warns Song In not to speak San’s name with his filthy mouth, and so Song In tells Rin that his little rescue mission will have to wait because the king has called for him.
We return to Won and San as they walk through the garden, and San notes the increase in Won’s security, so he explains that the added muscle is for her protection, not his.
Suddenly, he starts confiding in San about his father’s fear of him, and how the king refused to let himself be alone with him, or eat with him, because he thought his own son might poison him.
Won says that it doesn’t matter what he said because there was always someone around the king to misinterpret his actions and spin lies about him to his father.
Won says that he could never understand why his father was always so anxious and delusional, but now finds himself feeling the same way— always fearing that someone might hurt San. He plucks a flower from a nearby bush and puts it behind San’s ear, smiling, then stops her when she tries to remove it.
He insists that he is keeping her beside him to protect her, and now he has the power to accomplish that, as evidenced by the guards around them. He takes her hand, but again she pushes him away, and he sighs.
Some of Won’s bodyguards return to report Rin’s escape, adding that he had the help of some unknown masked men.
Rin goes to the delirious king’s side, and though Rin offers to call the royal physicians, he insists that Boo-yong is all that he needs. He tells Rin that he doesn’t have much time left, and Rin argues that it isn’t like the king to utter such self-defeating words.
Boo-yong steps away for a moment, and that’s when the king grabs Rin’s hand urgently and asks in a low voice for Rin to save San… and himself, while checking to make sure Boo-yong and the Song cousins are out of earshot. Whoaaaaa.
Afterwards, Rin leaves, and Minister Song follows him out into the hall to fill him in on Won’s latest actions (calling him deranged), including ditching Dan and instead holing up with San. Then he adds that visiting Won could be considered treason at this point.
Rin pushes back that he needs to meet with Won, and Minister Song takes that to mean that Rin is ready to go full-coup mode, then trails off. Rin calls for Song In instead and tells him that he will believe Song In’s claims that he intends to serve him, then gives him a few tasks to do, which we don’t hear.
San stands awkwardly in Won’s royal quarters, and so Won tells her to take a nap in his lavish bed. She’s uncomfortable with the idea, until Won points out that she’s done it a couple of times already with his bed at Geumgajeong.
She decides to help him finish his work so he can visit his new wife. Won ignores her suggestion and says that he has a lot to say to her. He teases her when she looks at him hesitantly, then reiterates that she is his priority, even though she seems to forget that constantly.
She jokes that she miiiight have heard him say something similar before, but then he amends himself and says, “I thought you were my priority then, but now I see that you are not. I think you are my last. I do not have anyone else on my side apart from you because I drove them out.” (Meaning that she’s now his first, last, and everything).
She recalls Dan’s words, warning that she will only bring pain to Won, then looks toward Won’s smiling face.
San steels herself and says that she lied about coming back to honor the promise sealed by her mother’s ring, and says that she returned so that she could ask Won to help her save Rin, who was taken away.
Won remarks quietly that from what he knows, Rin was not forcibly taken away, but San continues and says that she and Rin planned to leave together, until she was brought to Won…
Won understands what she is trying to say, and asks if she is acting this way because she believes that his mother killed her father. If so, he asks if getting revenge for her father would be enough to allow herself to stay by his side.
He says finally, with pain in his eyes, “Sometimes people ask me to choose between two choices. And you are not an exception.”
EPISODE 34 RECAP
We open to find royal guards dragging Court Lady Jo from Princess Wonsung’s palace to investigate Minister Eun’s death. Princess Wonsung roars at the guards for taking away her people, as Court Lady Jo cries for help.
Princess Wonsung goes immediately to Won’s residence, but is barred from entry by a rope tied across the entrance to “ward off evil spirits,” and a small army of guards. The guards inform Princess Wonsung that Won has ordered anyone killed on the spot if they try to enter, regardless of who they are. Eeeeeeeeek!
Princess Wonsung stumbles backwards from shock and weakness, and we see that Rin has been watching from around the corner.
Inside, Won retreats to his room and studies San as she sleeps. He takes her hand into his and thinks, “You already shook off my hand twice within the day, and now, your hands are finally still. If I keep you asleep all the time… if I do that… would we always live in peace? So please fall fast asleep for a long time.” Come on, Won. You know this isn’t right. This isn’t love.
After searching for Teacher Lee, Rin enters the building where he is being kept by Won, only to come face to face with Furatai’s sword. He’s eventually allowed inside alone, and finds Princess Wonsung sitting with Teacher Lee.
Rin says that he’s heard that Teacher Lee accused Princess Wonsung of murdering Minister Eun, and asks Princess Wonsung if she is here to kill Teacher Lee. Princess Wonsung asks provokingly if Rin intends to stop her should she decide to, and he says that he’s going to take Teacher Lee with him.
Teacher Lee stops him so that they can all have an honest chat. He tells Princess Wonsung that she should have gone to Rin with her troubles since Rin is uniquely smart and compassionate, and will be faithful to Won until his last moment.
He continues that they’ve discovered that a court lady confessed to poisoning Minister Eun with an incense stick, but was murdered shortly thereafter. Princess Wonsung remarks snidely that she knows someone good with incense, then offers some harsh words about Boo-yong.
She says vulnerably, acknowledging her historically less than welcoming attitude toward Rin, that Rin and Won always insisted they were friends, and thus, as Won’s friend, she begs Rin to help Won now.
However, Rin only coldly responds, “It is too late.” He tells a distressed Princess Wonsung that Boo-yong now works for him, and Won is no longer his friend. Damn it all.
Moo-suk and his men enter, and so Rin takes Teacher Lee away and leaves Princess Wonsung howling after him.
Outside, Teacher Lee asks Rin for the reasons for his actions, and Rin replies emotionally that he needs to see “her,” but there is no other way to get to her.
Won is called into the throne room for an emergency deliberative council ordered by the king. He’s enraged to have his authority undermined and questioned, and so Minister Song gleefully informs Won that the king has appointed a special judge to oversee the proceedings: Rin.
Rin enters dramatically and reads the king’s order to an incredulous Won, which instructs him to investigate Minister Eun’s death and facilitate a candid assessment of Won’s leadership by the ministers.
Elsewhere, Jeon confronts Song In for siding with Rin after promising to make him king for years. He grabs Song In angrily by the collar and rams him against the wall, then demands to know what Song In is up to. He tells Jeon that they tried for so long to gain the upper hand over Won in vain, and yet Rin was able to formidably threaten Won in just a few days. Song In adds that they will use Rin to get rid of Won, then make him king.
Meanwhile, Won’s dissatisfied generals testify in front of the council about Won’s inaction on the grain situation. (Are you going to point out that this directly benefitted the special judge at the time? No? Nobody?)
The matter of the incense and Minister Eun’s death is brought up, and Rin asks Won to have Princess Wonsung brought to testify for framing and murdering Minister Eun.
Won orders Rin to stop his line of reasoning, but Rin will not be stopped and asks that Princess Wonsung have a chance to explain herself.
Bi-yeon arrives to see San (while in cahoots with Moo-suk and with a large package), and marvels at Won’s fancy pad. She tells San that most of the servants are waiting out the chaos for San to return so that they can serve her again.
She says that Rin came to them and has been looking for a way to get her out. Bi-yeon quotes Rin by saying, “‘I will get the one you are with out. Lady San can leave after that.'” San is confused, so Bi-yeon unpacks her sack, hands San a set of clothing, and tells her that Rin said he would be waiting at the place where they “cut the string.”
In the king’s private quarters, Boo-yong and Song In lounge together like lovers and plot their treason, while the king remains unconscious (under the influence of deadly incense) in an adjacent room.
She asks if he was lying to Jeon about intending to make him king after all, and Song In replies in confirmation that Rin is too much for them to control.
They’re startled when Princess Wonsung appears suddenly (with Furatai), and screams at them for their disgraceful behavior. She goes to the king and begs him to open his eyes and see the treachery occurring right under his nose.
However, the king does not wake no matter how much she calls out to him. She spots the table of incense burning besides the king’s bed and flips it over with rage. She orders Song In and Boo-yong arrested, then vows to uncover what they’ve done to the king.
She gives a heart-wrenching scream for the royal guards to enter from outside, but instead, a group of Moo-suk’s masked men fill the room. Song In narrates a scenario for Princess Wonsung where armed assassins killed the king’s guards and infiltrated the king’s chambers. (And killed the king? Is that what you’re saying? What are you saying?)
Furatai urges Princess Wonsung to leave or risk endangering herself, but she can’t bear to as she keeps looking back at the king’s sleeping form. Furatai urges her out again, but the king stirs at last and calls out fearfully.
Amid the standoff, Boo-yong appears beside the king and assures him that all is fine. At the same time, she casts a menacing and triumphant glare at Princess Wonsung, who is forced to flee.
Furatai protects her valiantly, but alas, he’s unable to escape the room alive. Song In stabs him through the heart when his back is turned, which shatters Princess Wonsung.
Song In watches as a numb and quickly fading Princess Wonsung is escorted back to her palace, as Won narrates in voiceover from the throne room while staring down a guilty-looking Rin (who soon leaves):
“My mother loves peonies. She did not laugh often, but only when she saw peonies. Sometimes, she would cry because of them. When I asked why, she said this: ‘It would have been better had I not known.’ She wished that she did not know these flowers existed. That however beautiful they were, she should not have liked them.”
As Princess Wonsung makes her way back to her seat in her room, she weakly takes a single peony in her hand, then resumes her walk down the hall. Then slowly, her grip weakens, and her head bobs downward, until finally, she takes her last breath as the peony falls to the floor.
Bi-yeon helps a disguised San slip through Jang Eui and the other Geumgajeong boys’ watchful notice, and she makes her way to her meeting place with Rin to find him waiting for her.
Eunuch Kim reports Princess Wonsung’s death to the entire throne room, and immediately all the attendees drop to their knees and bow to Won in mourning as Won begins to feel himself spiraling.
Won adds in voiceover, “My mother’s words cut deep and stayed with me, but I never understood. Why did I never think of becoming a peony for her? Instead of being a flower, I became a thorn bush. I pricked those who came close, as well as myself, and I still kept growing.”
San makes her way to Rin, but becomes confused when she suddenly sees the entire palace in an uproar. She stops a court lady to inquire about the cause, and is stunned to hear that Princess Wonsung has died.
She looks in the direction the palace workers are running to, and is overcome with conflicted feelings.
In the throne room, Won looks around the room as his eyes water.
COMMENTS
I need a moment because, holy shit, I did not expect all of that. I’ve been losing my mind waiting for Won to go dark, and I’m totally blindsided by the fact that it’s the death of his mother that drives him over the edge. All the signs were there, and yet I didn’t understand how emotionally resonant it would feel until it happened. In fact, for a few episodes now I’ve been actively hoping that the king and Princess Wonsung would die soon so that their power struggle baggage could end, and so both Won and Rin could have more agency to declare an all-out war against each other. I thought Rin “cutting the string” with him would be Won’s breaking point, but that scene was not what I was hoping it would be, and now I’m overwhelmed that it’s the gradual yet absolute weakening (physically, politically, and emotionally) of his mother and wrongfulness of it all (and his role in that), that likely breaks him. I honestly thought Princess Wonsung and the king’s passings’ would be almost non-events because it was so inevitable at this point, but I have been a fool.
In retrospect, it’s clear that a show would want to use the death of an important supporting character in an affecting way, but I suppose I’ve been clouded by my own biases against the king and my focus on Won and Rin that I didn’t calculate Princess Wonsung’s dramatic importance in this basic way, and how it would circle back to the king in the end. I really have always viewed Princess Wonsung as a reflection of Won and a vision of his future that he cannot circumvent, but not as the “love” that breaks him.
I love how resigned and unguarded the king and Princess Wonsung were in their final moments together. It was a nuanced end to their in-your-face dysfunction, and more importantly, the predominant emotion highlighted in their last couple of exchanges was the twisted, but genuine affection (and Princess Wonsung’s deep, though undeserved love) they shared. It really left me feeling a lot of things that I haven’t fully processed yet, and although that describes a number of other aspects of this show (namely the love story), this time, it’s a positive kind of confusion. To me, this mixture of emotions shows how successfully this drama created a prism-like emotional landscape between everyone, making it difficult to compartmentalize characters and their aggressively incongruous and intertwined lives in a concise way. And if that isn’t a description of human life in the most fundamental way, then I don’t know what is.
Admittedly, I still think the storytelling of this show tends to be needlessly muddled, but I appreciate the complexity. I feel like we are naturally predisposed to overanalyze a Korean drama that is built around a love triangle in terms of romance (because, duh), so it felt refreshing to me to analyze this show through the lens of friendship instead. But I realize only now that though I’ve come to find Princess Wonsung’s fraught and highly complicated relationship with her son fascinating, I didn’t consider it to be such a prominent pillar of Won’s journey until now. It kind of clicks now as to why his relationship with San has never taken off, and that’s because it’s secondary—almost peripheral—to the emotional arc of Won’s other relationships.
But back to the topic of reflections, I have no idea what Rin is doing, but I suspect he is hiding his true agenda for the sake of San and Won equally. Because if he isn’t, then I’m going to have to flip a table. I just don’t believe that Rin is abandoning Won for San, because at every step he’s tried to do things with both of them in mind and still rightfully hates all the baddies. Won is often forced to choose between Rin and San, but I feel like Rin has always refused to truly choose. Whatever the case, I am ready to get a better insight into his thought process. In many ways, Rin and Won really are mirror images, and I think Rin is fulfilling something Won said once before about being able to become a villain in order to protect Rin/San. Ultimately, I think Rin and Won are afflicted with what I like to call “I Know Best” Syndrome, which can distort the judgment of the best of us and make it difficult to talk slowly and at length with your loved ones without pissing each other off to the point of no return. That said, I really think Won and Rin can return from this. Please?
RELATED POSTS
- The King Loves: Episodes 1-2
- Premiere Watch: School 2017, The King Loves, Man Who Dies to Live, Reunited Worlds
- A house and friendship divided in The King Loves
- Tension in a garden of flowers for The King Loves
- Assassin-filled forests and masked dances in The King Loves
- Main writer behind The King Loves revealed to be Song Ji-nah
- The King Loves to play in azalea-filled forests
- Yoon-ah steals the hearts of two best friends in The King Loves
- Im Shi-wan as a young prince for MBC’s The King Loves
Tags: Episode 33, Episode 34, Hong Jong-hyun, Im Shi-wan, The King Loves, Yoon-ah
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1 PkY
September 13, 2017 at 8:21 PM
I only have 1 question in the end: who the heck is San going to choose?
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Just Alee
September 13, 2017 at 8:32 PM
Rin obviously.... Unless something happen next ep... *dun.. dun.. dun* ??
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Anneakemi
September 13, 2017 at 9:43 PM
I know really. How long is this drama...? It's almost over... Can we please get a clear answer with no room for doubt or different interpretations?! At this point, I don't care who she chooses, just clearly pick one and stick with him.
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outofthisworld
September 13, 2017 at 9:57 PM
I was only confused because I read comments in forums. If I had just watched this show without doing that, I'd be totally sure it's Rin.
If it turns out to be Won in the end, I think the writer has given up integrity of characters and script just for a twist or trolling viewers.
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RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM
Totally agree! Some of the commenters in other forums are so sure the drama has been hinting that San wants Won the whole time that it makes me question it. Then I watch the show, and nah :)
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Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 2:20 AM
if you watch it with open heart and unbiased, i think the answer who she love and who she likes is always there. i think its obvious the way she behave towards Rin and she behave towards Won are different.
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Adal
September 13, 2017 at 10:35 PM
At this point I don't think her decision is relevant in the scheme of things. She's culpable because she sent both guys mixed messages all along. If she wasn't interested in any of them romantically, she should have firmly put a stop to their affections by revealing her mind. Instead she encourages Won by her silence, and Rin with her gazes. I used to like and root for her, but now I'm a tad exasperated because this love triangle has gone on long past its expiration date.
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outofthisworld
September 13, 2017 at 10:58 PM
I still can't help thinking that something must have transpired during that night when they were camping en route to embarking the ship. Perhaps they intentionally left out her confession? Won won't take "No" for an answer but I think it would be out of character for Rin to want to marry San if he doesn't have a definite answer from San regarding her feelings for Won.
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Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 4:06 AM
Comment was deleted
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 4:35 AM
Hmm, like @outofthisworld said, I think it's always been clear she chooses Rin if we don't have a preconceived notion that she'll end up with Won, the titular lead. If she ends up with Won, I'd consider myself trolled.
I first starting the drama expecting WonSan romance, but it's obvious to me through many scenes and dialouges that she's romantically interested in Rin and consider Won as a dear friend.
Now about the decision... We know that she's all about making others happy. In her previous monologue we learn she adores the boys' friendship and wished to be a part of it only to learn she might caused rift, and decided to step back and go away instead. She had wanted to go back to the mountain, to be sent away as tribute, to go with her father to the faraway land --but Rin and Won urged her to stay. And then it's way too late. Even if she doesnt love Won romantically, she feels immense gratitude and affection as a friend for what he has done for her.
I thought the previous episode she made it clear the only thing that holding her back from running away with Rin was Won. Personality wise, it's consistent that both Rin and San would holding back... And now they knew the feelings are mutual, they'd agreed to not completely starting a romance until the make sure Won is fine with it (will he ever be?)
Sorry for writing an essay lol. I fell in love with the trio relationship, it's a breath of fresh air to me. I believe they shouldn't have marketed the drama as a romance/love triangle since it's more about the friendship between WonRinSan and how much they'd sacrificed for each other (including sacrificing potential romance lol).
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Kimmy
September 15, 2017 at 2:05 AM
I will curse if this drama ends tragedy. I admire their friendship, their sacrifice, and the way they love each other. I would only be angry if this friendship would end with the death of one of them.
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Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 2:24 AM
about the marketing part i think the cast and production always said this is not a typical romance/love story. The love theme here is tackled more wide range. Love of a friend, love of a family, love to the nation etc. The ones that are confused are the fans themselves. They are too into the title "The King in Love" so they thought it is about the King (CP) being in love or his love.
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fay17
September 14, 2017 at 1:37 AM
Is this show about who chooses whom anymore? Because with more episodes I'm getting more reasons like why this is that kind of relationship which isn't supposed to make any one of them happy, all three of them will always be suffering. Also, with the princess dying, and how Won ignored her all these time, and how Rin totally rejected her words (and exposed his move in front of her), with this, somehow it seems like romance is the last thing that should be in their mind right now. San knows Rin for one year max maybe? While Rin knows Won for his whole life, and I expected more trust and bond between them than with San. It's unfortunate that they have so much bad blood between them when they used to be each other's support system.
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Adal
September 14, 2017 at 7:31 AM
??
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Kimmy
September 15, 2017 at 1:46 AM
When I'm ready to sink with WonSan ship then I see there's hope, but right now I don't know whether this stream push and pull me around I am tired but I feel alive too.
I think that San would choose the Won because Won needed it more. The nature of San is happy when others are happy. But It sounds unfair, it seems like I should stop wishing, and enjoy this story to the end.
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2 Just Alee
September 13, 2017 at 8:31 PM
I think this ep confirms San's feeling... She rejects Won's hand 3 times and clearly looks uncomfortable with him saying she is his last... On the contrary, she keep mentioning Rin's name and even admit to Won that she and Rin plan to leave together... I can surely say, even if she maybe doesn't love rin romantically... She clearly doesn't love won romantically either..
Anw... RIP princess wonsung and her cool bodyguard, Furatai... I love Furatai's loyalty to WS and how close he is with WS. Did you see him holding WS's hands while trying to protect her from song in?
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miselpo
September 13, 2017 at 10:38 PM
Agree this episode confirms San's feelings. Her expression changed when Bi-yeon mentioned Rin and she did escape Won's place to reunite with Rin. Although.. that doesn't guarantee the two will end up together?
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piscesdragon
September 14, 2017 at 2:05 AM
I would like to think so too, but was there a flashback to Dan and San's conversation saying San will be harmful to Won thats why she's avoiding getting close to him? Again, the writer might be trolling the viewers again.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 2:38 AM
San clearly has Won's interests in her heart as a good friend would. In fact, she got along with him very well as friends. She only became uncomfortable when he started to speak and act otherwise.
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Well it's the truth... Won ignores everything that happened around him (rebels trying to depose him), including not investigating the truth behind minister Eun's death and his mother's being suspected as the murderer. The toxic rumours already spread that Won is the killer coz he wants San and her father's wealth.
What makes San more uncomfortable is because Won said that he already kick everyone except her. He never did it before, and thus San acknowledges how serious the situation is and the truth in Dan's words.
I always being sceptic that this drama would allow second lead to get the girl.. But this ep confirmed that San doesn't love won romantically. She obviously uncomfortable with Won trying to hold her hand... More uncomfortable when he said he will not go to his new wive and has kicked anyone else but her. I didn't see any pain in her eyes as a noble idiot lover (if she rejects Won just because he already married), all I see is how uncomfortable and sometimes scared on won's obsession for her
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Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 4:25 AM
I guess I never thought of Rin as the second lead. The title says King but my focus has always been Rin, I thought it was the drama scewing it that way. But I recognize it's probably me. Lol
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 8:48 AM
Well... I think it's because the english title is kinda misleading. The korean title is "Wangheun Saranghanda" means The king (Wang) in love.. But as we know there are 2 Wangs here: Wang Won and Wang Rin. In the novel, San is also a Wang (Wang San) eventho they change it into Eun in the drama. All three of them are royals... So who is this 'Wang' in love? It could be all three of them...
jess
September 14, 2017 at 11:13 PM
Comment was deleted
jess
September 15, 2017 at 12:56 AM
It's been said that the actual novel put the trio in equal spotlight. So the Wang in love could refer to all three of them.
And I just realized they changed her name from Wang San to Eun San while keeping the title pun!
The Korean title is "Wang-eun Saranghanda" in which "wang" is a king (or Goryeo's royal clan) and "eun" is the topic particle... So now it's Wang-Eun in love? Lol
Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 4:18 AM
Furatai will definitely be missed, his care for and loyalty to Princess W raised him up to be more than your average henchman or even right hand man
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 9:20 AM
Furatai was most certainly the Princess's Man. He was a great character, and I will miss his quiet but lethal presence.
I'm concerned as to the foreshadowing Furatai's hero's death in the line of duty might signal for the other guards and "good and faithful servants." I hope Won's chief shadow guard, Jang Ui, doesn't buy the farm.
It's interesting to note the parallels between the various bodyguards. Jin-gwan ends up guarding Dan, so she'll have at least one person in her orbit who gives a darn about her. Rin has been faithfully guarding Won since they were kids. Actually, San has been protective of Won as well.
Assassin leader Moo Suk is one of Song In's minions. I'm still trying to figure him out. The regrettably loose-lipped Bi Yeon regularly dispenses more intelligence to him than a tilted pinball machine gives free replays. The way he looks at her sometimes makes me think that he's not just hitting up an information source.
Won's Eunuch Kim is another character I like very much. His low-key devotion to Won makes my day. (Nice performance, Kim Jung-wook!!)
Kim Jung-Hak as Eun family butler Koo Hyung is an admirable and resourceful servant. I hope he makes it to Ganghwa Island in one piece.
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3 Ally
September 13, 2017 at 8:31 PM
Thank you, @murasakimi! I also am still in shock about how dark things turned all of a sudden. I didn't expect so many people to die all at once, and I'm still reeling from the Princess' untimely passing. In the back of my mind, I knew exactly what would happen to bring Won to his breaking point, his severed relationship with his mother and her dying before he could repair it, but it still was so emotionally taxing when it happened. And I credit this to the Princess' actress. Her haggard appearance of this episode drew me in and didn't let me go--then the next episode of how Won reacts--the nail in the coffin, literally, for me. I gave this show one more week and it delivered.
Favorite scene: Rin and Won's confrontation. Rin FINALLY has a fire in his belly and Won doesn't really know what to do with him. How strange it would be for someone who waited on you hand and foot to bite you. Rin was like a trustworthy puppy dog, Rin Tin Tin, always getting Won out of trouble--or at least trying to--and now he seems to be the source of it (at least to Won--but we know better ?. And wasn't that clever?)
Least favorite scene: Any time Bi-Yeon and snake assassin were on screen. COME ON! I hate when writers are so lazy that they have a character whose only job is to reveal everyone's secret to the antagonists. It's too easy, and serves no other purpose. Aghhh!
I guess I'm on the hook for another week. But more HJH appreciation posts to come, I'm sure.
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miselpo
September 13, 2017 at 10:44 PM
HJH appreciation posts! yes spam away
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 4:25 AM
HJH... Omg...
I ended up searching his previous works and found style log!! He was so cute with lee so hyuk!! LOL... I now know he is bff with lee so hyuk, kim young kwang, son joon and kim wo bin (models avenger, hmm? ??). I havent watch Kyushu yet.. But I am loving Style Log. HJH looks like a puppy dongsaeng to LSH. LSH is surprisingly the 'leader' between the 5 of them eventhough KYK is the oldest...
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 5:02 AM
You must check White Chritsmas with all five of them.
Eh why is LSH the leader? I watched videos where they mentioned KYK is the president. I mean he's the oldest, the tallest, and sunbae in the industry (modelling and actor) ??
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 6:38 AM
Haha! How did I know you would mention White Christmas? I almost recommend it as well, but I had a sixth sense you would be all over it! And, I also think it's interesting that HJH and SJ were born the same year, but I always think SJ is much older than all these guys. Maybe because of his role in White Christmas where he plays the brooding sunbae. HJH is the quiet puppy (initially) here too. Anyway, I second this--watch it, you'll love it.
Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 8:56 AM
Ow.. He is not the leader? LOL ??
I just guessing coz LSH looks like the 'boss' and SJ-HJH-KWB seems to listen to him everytime he speaks. KYK, on the other hand, looks like a sweet hyung to the boys... Maybe because he is always smiling and playful around them. LOL... I like HJH when he is with LSH more tho. Just because HJH looks like this cute dongsaeng while LSH acts like the mischievous hyung... ?
Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:06 AM
What surprised me was HJH had a much larger role in White Christmas than I thought he would have. Put off watching it because of that.
outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 6:07 AM
I don't follow actors and I hardly search for their past works or videos. But damn HJH, I am been trawling YT and getting smitten by his awkward and shy personality.
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Dani
September 14, 2017 at 3:10 PM
Pls watch Hello Kyushu and also Real Mate (Australia). Both featuring KYK and HJH. KYK is the sweetest hyung to HJH and you can see how clingy HJH is towards him. KYK on the other hand, played along with him and my goodness, his smile is addictive! To me the best style log episode was episode 4 when all five of them (well 4 initially, as KYK had work to do and only joined later in the evening), went for a short trip and played water sports. Imagine having LSH, KWB, HJH, SJ and KYK together...having fun, eating, playing games etc. If you have any health issue, pls don't watch. They were just so swoony.
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 10:33 PM
That Style Log is the best thing ever. Wish the model avengers do a show together again. Have watched Hello Kyushu and gah, KYK and HJH are now my real life OTP ?? I think HJH and KYK are the closest one, can see that HJH adores KYK.
dani
September 15, 2017 at 2:26 AM
@miselpo
I wish they could do a show together too. I will pay whatever amount to see it but we have to wait for KWB to get better and LSH to return from army. :(
In terms of closeness, KYK and LSH know each other longer and they are close but KYK and HJH' personalities match so well that LSH complained that whenever those two are together, he gets headache due to their playful nature. Even KYK said HJH is like a big kid. He will play until he collapsed. LOL. :D
Model Avengers = squad goal
miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 10:21 PM
@ally-le hahah you were right. Big thanks to @headsno2 for her abundant love for White Christmas that I came across the drama.
HJH and SJ are same age but SJ calls HJH hyung? He admires and respects HJH for being great at sports.
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Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 2:32 AM
tho SJ and HJH born in same year, but HJH birthday is earlier (Feb). I have a feeling he started school early (following the batch born a yr before him). maybe that is why he is a hyung to SJ. but he looks younger tho.
Adal
September 13, 2017 at 10:47 PM
Bi Yeon is the worst confidant ever. With friends like her, who needs enemies? It's amazing that with all her tattling and gossiping, she never once did reveal to San that she's growing closer to the snake assassin. Her gossiping is only about her mistress, but when it comes to her own affairs, she's quite silent. Chalk her up as one of the most exasperating characters of the year.
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dani
September 15, 2017 at 2:32 AM
Ughhh...this girl. It's absolutely bonkers why she keeps babbling about other people's business. Is she supposed to be that dumb? I thought years of pretending to be San, she would know the meaning of discreet and secrets. But nooo...in front of that snake tattoo guy, she's been singing like a bird. So disappointed in her.
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fay17
September 14, 2017 at 1:47 AM
I am really annoyed at Bi Yeon now. How can be anyone so stoopid and give away more clues to the enemy on her own! Can't believe I actually rooted for her and the assassin at the beginning. ?? And they have been showing this for couple of episodes now. Sloppy writing at its best.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 6:43 AM
If she was less of a simpleton, I might sympathize with her, but her character is a dim-witted gossip, with no redeeming qualities, really.
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 9:26 AM
I'm gonna scream if we find out Bi Yeon [beyond] the Fringe has been on Song In's payroll since she and San were kids. Maybe Moo Suk is actually her big brother...
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RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 12:01 PM
Haha I am all about the HJH appreciation!! I've been watching his other shows (except Mama since I'm not in the mood for 20 episodes of sadness).
If you guys need more HJH fun, his appearances on Running Man were great (I found 3 episodes). I love that he's kind of a giggly dork, but super athletic!
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dani
September 15, 2017 at 2:35 AM
He was so good in Running Man. I think Haha and Ji Hyo truly admire him for being so good in games and athletic. I like when Haha called him 'handsome brat' and got jealous over his archery skills.
Now imagine having HJH and his model friends together in the same episode. I'll die.
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miselpo
September 15, 2017 at 3:13 AM
Not only Haha and Ji-hyo the entire RM casts were mezmerized by him. I like it they kept commenting how can he be so good (in archery)?
Omg yes I'd die if all five appeared on RM. Though I'm pretty sure HJH will stand out ?
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dani
September 15, 2017 at 3:32 AM
Yup, archery. :) Especially during the last duel between him and Lee Joon Gi.
If anything, his friends would make him to go first as I think HJH is the daredevil type. In the Style Log episode, he was the first to do anything haha.
I hope me fangirling HJH is fine here. In other forum, others would roast me. :)
Ally
September 15, 2017 at 4:42 AM
@dani, I think you've found a safe haven. Although, I would like to think that if people were gushing about Siwan, we would be supportive of that too! Welcome to the club! Fangirl away! ❤️?
Ally
September 15, 2017 at 4:59 AM
Or register an account! The Beanie fanwall is is where you'll find most of us to fangirl with! You'd think I own stock in DB or something. (In creepy robotic monotone: "@girlfriday and @javabeans created me, and I've infiltrated this recap to seduce you into joining their ranks as a candy.") ???
dani
September 15, 2017 at 10:13 AM
@Ally
Yayyy...thank you! I am so joining the club. Oh they can gush about Siwan too. I have no problem with that.
mary
September 15, 2017 at 10:35 AM
@ally-le that's a violation of our non-disclosure agree-- *muffled screaming*
dani
September 15, 2017 at 1:45 PM
@Ally
LOL it's like I am joining a secret society or something. Of course I will register. Once I figure out what my username would be....I need to think this one thoroughly.
4 YooeyL
September 13, 2017 at 9:23 PM
Won's interactions with San this episode has been suffocating to say the least... I understand his overwhelming loneliness eapecially now that Rin appears to be turning his back on him, but it does not justify his continued attempts to emotionally manipulate San into staying with him. He knows from his previous conversation with San's teacher that San is innately self-sacrificial nature and knows what effects his words will have on San. Even if she succeeds in running away with Rin, she will live in guilt for the rest of her days.
Furthermore, his final remarks about wanting San to remain in a deep sleep forever were so disturbing - even more disturbing than his bird cage fantasy - because he is now stripping San of all her agency. San has made her true feelings abundantly clear to Won and he sees that no matter how big a bird cage he confines her in, she will always be attempting to escape. The only remaining way to keep her by his side will be to become his own sleeping beauty.
With regards to Rin, I am hoping that he hasn't turned to the dark side. He seems to know that Song In is up to no good and appears to have no intention to take the throne, judging by his conversation with Won earlier in the episode. If anything, he seems to be forcing Won to wake up from his all-consuming obsession with San and to start seeing and listening to the reality of things. He has tried repeatedly to get it through to him that San is better off outside of the palace. Also, his decision to appear as special judge feels like a plan to force Won to openly deal with the death of Minister Eun, in hopes that it will lead to the exposure of Boo Young's poison incense scheme. At this point, Rin knows that Princess Won is innocent and he is also aware that the rumors swirling around Won's role in Minister Eun's death will seriously threaten his power, but Won doesn't seem to want to care about the potential fallout of his huge mess.
These are all purely speculations but I dearly hope that Rin has a larger plan in the works, or else he risks appearing terribly foolish to everyone else.
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Ally
September 13, 2017 at 9:54 PM
I feel there is definitely some ideas lost in translation with the whole tranquilizing soliloquy. Maybe it's more poetic in Korean? I see San and Won always at odds, with which Won has a love-hate relationship. All his relationships are antagonistic (through his own doing, more-or-less) and San is no different. However, I think that he just wants to stop fighting, and the when she's asleep, he finds that peace, and wants desperately to hold on to it. Any person with a rambunctious or rebellious child understands this. We love them, but when they're asleep, we may wish they just stay that way sometimes! (Which is why you never wake a sleeping toddler!) she is still an independent spirit who can't be controlled, and that what he loves about her, but it makes it that much harder to hold on to her, especially when he knows that she doesn't love him in the same manner. And is what he is doing manipulation? Certainly, but it's his life, and look at the examples he's had to emulate: a mother who is a master manipulator (remember the interrogation scene with the tribute and Dan) and a father who looks like he's been manipulated repeatedly into being near death. What a tragedy. Now, how Shakespearean do you think our writer will go?
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YooeyL
September 14, 2017 at 1:33 AM
Yes I think you are right... Won has always had to fight for even the simplest of things. His life thus far has been occupied by a series of seemingly irreconcilable conflicts - his position as Crown Prince and the threat Rin poses to his power, Rin and him being attracted to the same woman, his love for San and her desire for freedom, his mixed blood parentage and his complicated relationship with both parents, his desire for a simpler life and his royal obligations... I think deep down he just wants to stop fighting and is trying desperately to hold on to that sliver of peace he feels when San is around (and asleep). He has already given up on Rin and without San, there would be no one left to ground him to whatever goodness left in his conflicted heart.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 5:57 AM
Exactly, this! You've managed to sum up the dichotomies in his life so succinctly! I really like how Siwan is portraying Won. I'll talk more about this next recap!
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Piggy
September 14, 2017 at 7:07 PM
Thanks, you guys! Exactly, my thoughts. I've been lurking here only to get annoyed at how people are downplaying Won's sacrifices just because they find Rin's actions more "heroic". Come on, this drama has so much depth in it-- much more to understand than what it's literally showing. It's not your typical saeguk; it is complex, yes, I find it beautiful-- not "needlessly muddled".
Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 11:33 PM
I've been wondering how Shakespearean tragedy this might go too. And thanks for all the analysis of Won's character traits. I know he's complicated but never have just written down the complexities and you put it so well.
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LaLa
September 13, 2017 at 10:00 PM
I love your mention of San's innately self-sacrificial nature. I forgot that about her. To me, the way she has put Won above all others in the recent episodes was logical in that she deeply cared for him as a friend, but I was always nagged with the question of "why." And then, when you reminded me about what Teacher Lee told Won--that San is the type of person who needs the people around her to be happy in order to be human--it all clicked.
And I fell in love with this drama all over again. The past few weeks, the conscious effort to keep San (and her feelings) opaque frustrated me and made me doubt the drama. But then, I was reminded of what I loved about this drama in the first place: how its characters feel so real and lived in, and act so consistently with who they are. And Rin and San both exemplify this, esp. in this week's episodes.
The way she was handled recently kinda made San my least favorite of the main trio, but your comment made me realize how true to herself San has acted all along, which raised her in my esteem again. Thank you.
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 3:48 AM
Right, this is explain why lots of people feel disappointed by San "indecisiveness" -- they forgot that San's biggest weakness and biggest strength (like Rin's) is her selflessness and her desire to make everyone around her happy. She's not giving Won mixed signal at all, she simply couldn't bear to hurt him by outwardly pushing her away. Especially after all the things he has done for her. Since the death of her mother and bodyguards, her biggest fear has always been seeing someone got hurt because of her (and to an extent, it includes pursuing romance with Rin).
On the earlier episode, She also said to Rin that she should've left early before it's harder for Won to let her go (it's too late now, I guess).
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irmar
September 14, 2017 at 12:36 PM
If you don't love someone who loves you, it's cruel to not push him away, because you give them hope. The kind and considerate thing is to allow them to get over it by being firm.
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 5:49 PM
Yes, her fault is she wasn't firm enough... but she tried and even Won got her subtle and not-so subtle rejections too. The thing is Won is too persistent to change her mind about him... and with his complex situation, loneliness, and status I think it's hard for San to completely abandon him. Since she still deeply cares for him, after all.
Kendi
September 15, 2017 at 2:33 AM
This is so true. I admit I lost interest in this drama but still occasionally check the recap since this drama restored my faith in HJH lol.
I'm baffled by Won's poetic interpretation for having San as his personal mannequin. Kudos for ISM for being able to deliver it beautifully, the line is pretty much an ode for any psychopath lol.
The thing with their relationship, both San and Won are too 'flawed' for their own good. I never once see them 'connect' as human as per the episode I watched or recap I read. Their interaction is very limited to their problems, Won with his insecurities and obsessiveness and San with her selfless sacrificing self. I know 'broken' people heals each other could be a good drama troupe (Secret for example) but I just didn't see it here.
They both need someone who can help them stay on the ground like Rin but that poor dude got...ok I'll stop here since I don't want to give spoiler for the next episode. :
I still look forward to the ending though, hope they follow the novel since I love how the novel ended.
DoubleFault
September 14, 2017 at 8:42 AM
And I cannot for the life of me understand why the show was using a love song in the background while Won was remarking how he wants San to be in a deep sleep forever so that he can hold her hand without her pulling away. Seriously?
As for Rin, looks like our boyfriend has a grand plan all along. I'm not ready to discuss the next episode yet.?
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 9:38 AM
@ YooeyL,
<blockquote?The only remaining way to keep her by his side will be to become his own sleeping beauty.
I was thinking Sleeping Beauty, too. It's really very apt in that it dovetails with Won's statement about being a thorn bush rather than a nice flower like a peony. (I was imagining a briar.) In the fairy tale, Sleeping Beauty's castle is surrounded by trees, briars, and other prickly plants that keep people out for 100 years.
As for Won's figuring San will quit arguing when she's asleep... it sounds as if he wants to borrow Concubine Mubi's services. Why don't you just go for the old insulin-induced coma, Won?! Or could I interest you in the latest Goryeo model Stepford Wife?!
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5 outofthisworld
September 13, 2017 at 9:53 PM
Jang Young Nam never fails, it's just a matter of how good a role or drama is given to her. Thankfully, Princess Wonsung is one of those memorable ones.
Princess Wonsung and Won are alike in many ways and sometimes it's when you see yourself in the other person, you are afraid of what is to come. They both love passionately and demand the same in return. I had wondered what if Princess Wonsung was less possessive or jealous of the king, would that lead him to love her more? Her obsession with her son which although not entirely unjustifiable suffocated him so much that it drew them apart. I am afraid the same thing will happen to Won. If he wants to be very sure of San's feelings for him, he should be asking her outright and be prepared to accept the truth.
Up till now, Won has been obsessing about San instead of noticing what's happening around him and how much peril his parents are in. He had also mistaken Rin as his foe because he thinks that San loves Rin and therefore Rin will betray him, take his woman and throne.
If there's one mistake Rin made, he wrongly miscalculated Won's reaction to his and San's love for each other. Witnessing Rin kissing San didn't deter Won, it just made him want to hold on tighter to San. Worse, it made Won distrust everything that Rin does.
Rin would give up everything for Won except San because he values her choice and freedom. He could have run away but did not because of San. It was not shown but it seemed that San had confessed her feelings to him. If San had expressed otherwise, I don't see how Rin can tell Won to let San and him leave and marry.
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Ally
September 13, 2017 at 10:09 PM
San has given him ample signs that all she wants is friendship and pulls away whenever Won tries to make a move, and our Won is not emotionally stunted, he gets it. However, he is still determined to make her love him--apologizing for not being there when she needed him, noticing her heartache, validating her feelings--at least in these episodes. If our Won was anything less, he would not be true to his character.
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outofthisworld
September 13, 2017 at 10:33 PM
You are right...I just thought some people need to hear a definite statement, something like driving the final nail into the coffin.
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Adal
September 13, 2017 at 10:51 PM
??
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Pensola
September 14, 2017 at 2:09 AM
I thought the reason San is silent about her rejection to Won is because of the law. While I don't know the laws of those or Joseon's times, Won mentioned that rejecting the Crown Prince's wishes is a crime (back when San-as-Soh-Wa asked him not to choose her lady because she loved another). Even if Won is her friend, San could still be worried about the repercussions to outright reject Won, because if she said "I will not be with the Crown Prince because I love another", not only might she be punished for rejecting him, but Rin might be punished for taking the "Crown Prince's woman". Maybe. Again, I only base this on what I've seen some sagaeuks react to it.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 2:33 AM
I had wondered about this but I can also imagine San risking her life to tell the truth.
About Rin taking the Crown Prince's woman, I get very pissed whenever people say Rin should not betray his friend because of a woman or fight with Won over a girl. These characters may be living in ancient times but not the writers who wrote these comments. Why is San not in the equation? She is not some object that Rin can give up to Won. I totally get Rin's guilt over falling in love with the same woman but I'd see him in a different light if he 'gives' San to Won knowing that San loves him and not Won.
Pensola
September 14, 2017 at 6:26 AM
@outofthisworld, I mean it more in line with the time of Goreo and Joseon. While I have not done any research on those time periods of Korea, from sageuks I would guess women were almost under the ownage of the men. Your father owns you until he marries you off, then your husband owns you until he dies, and then your son owns you until you die. Again, no idea how it really was or how the laws would really be like, but many dramas seem to like to make that a rule, "she's [dude]'s woman, what are you doing?", but it almost feels like that was a LAW in sageuk-land. So even if San could be willing to risk her life, she might be worried about other people that she would implicate.
BUT, I do agree that I don't care for the commenters that either treat San as an object for Rin and Won to fight over, or blame her for causing all the chaos. I do think the drama could do better to tell why Won initially was so obsessed with her, but that is the fault of WON'S character, not San's. I am just afraid that when there is a cool bromance and a girl gets between them (a girl that wants to be a trio of friends at that), most will blame the girl rather than the boys.
outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 7:09 AM
@pensola I don't see that many comments blaming San for being indecisive except for a few here in DB.
Most comments are divided into the two camps. Rin-San camp blame Won for trying to cage San and not believing in Rin. Won-San camp blame Rin for betraying his friend by trying to take San away. Won deserves love because he's all alone and Rin does not deserve love because he betrayed Won.
Yeah, no one thinks about what San deserves.
Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:08 AM
Biting my lip to not spoiler, but you are on the right track.
winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:37 AM
Nah San is not afraid of Won, at all. If anything she's afraid he might get hurt. I'm sure if she did not trust Won to not hurt her even though he was half out of his mind in grief and believed him to be cruel and cold-blooded she would have spited him just as she did Jeon, when she was still So Hwa the maid and Jeon threatened to torture and maim her, she didn't blink an eye.
No, San is not somebody who can be threatened with force.
Ally
September 14, 2017 at 6:48 AM
Maybe they are in as much denial as Won is and a transference-countertransferrence thing is going on between him and his shippers. Now, that's the sign of a good actor!
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 5:06 AM
She did. She even warned him to not slip no matter slippery it was, alluding to his previous excuse of hugging/comforting after she was released from prison. Even at one point Won found it weird she doesnt pull away when he touched her.
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Lalala
September 14, 2017 at 9:07 AM
Yep and with the exception of the manipulative first kiss, San has never pushed Rin away even when he was the one to initiate contact. Like Rin is always the one to let go of her first!
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 12:33 AM
First off, yeay finally you're here?❤
"Up till now, Won has been obsessing about San instead of noticing what's happening around him and how much peril his parents are in. He had also mistaken Rin as his foe because he thinks that San loves Rin and therefore Rin will betray him, take his woman and throne."
At this point Won is just as delusional as the king don't you think. I don't understand him. He keeps denying about Rin and San relationship. I thought in the episode where he's monologing the two avoid each other's eyes he'd slowly let them be since he told San not to worry that he won't let Rin being sent as tribute. The show really doesn't do any good to Won character.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM
Usually I catch up on recaps late plus today, comments are coming in slowly.
I am actually quite sympathetic towards Won. He's got a dysfunctional family, a father who loathes him(mostly), a mother who smothered him with her love and a people who would never regard him as a true king. I am not excusing his behavior but just trying to understand him.
Rin was all he had and later San. I don't blame him for trying his darnest to hold on to them. I think he was more self aware of Rin and San's feelings towards each other even before they were cognizant of it themselves.
He just has to come to a place where he realizes no one can be happy if he keeps them bound to him. Demanding love is futile as the life his mother had lived. I am quite sure he knows what to do but the chasm between knowing what is the right thing to do and doing what is right is bigger than we think.
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:30 AM
I totally agree with what you said. It's sad though if you think about it. He will realize that "no one can be happy if he keeps them bound to him. Demanding love is as futile as the life his mother had lived." That's why I believe he will let go in the last episodes, believing he did the right Thing, and settle with being lonely for the rest of his life, just like he was before he met Rin.
Why was fate so cruel though to have shown him how life could have been otherwise? Why give it and then take it away, worse, make him give it up again? Won suffered a similar fate like his mother in the end. Would that he had never known the peony! No matter how beautiful it is, it was wrong of him to love it.
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Kimmy
September 15, 2017 at 2:51 AM
I want to hug him and tell him there's nothing wrong with him. he grew up and witnessed many bad things. Won rightfully happy, he deserves it. He wants San, because this girl makes him happy, He wants Rin because Rin is his friend faithful and can be trusted. he struggled and tried his best to preserve it. Poor Woon
Kimmy
September 15, 2017 at 2:57 AM
Poor Won, that is the price to pay when Won has power. he will lose the person he loves. That's what makes Won first hate politics and power. Then LOVE makes him believe, initially he thinks the power can protect and retain the person he loves. Won will learn from his mistakes and I hope he can be a better king
PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 7:58 PM
@ outofthisworld, September 13, 2017 at 9:53 PM
Thanks for phrasing that so clearly. I feel as if this is the first time I'm truly noticing just how much a "chip off the old block" Won is from his mother, temperamentally and otherwise. Even his name could be considered to be contained within her own. It just hit me as I typed that sentence that Won has never existed as an entity independent of Mommy Dearest. The scene of the little prince offering a peony to his mother (along with his voice over) spoke volumes. He's been enmeshed with her in a codependent pas de deux his whole life. No wonder his two later friendships are so screwed up -- and that's before considering the king vs. subject aspect. He never had a snowball's chance in hell of being anything other than dysfunctional in relating to significant others.
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6 lunatic4kd
September 13, 2017 at 10:11 PM
I really love simply everything about this drama but the ONE thing that keeps utterly surprising me is that I continually forget that San is Yoona. For the very first time in Yoona's acting career, she has finally really become an actress. It's not often I am forced to change my mind about someone's abilities once I've made a judgment but I'm oh-so-glad when I'm proven wrong. I take it back Yoona - you do indeed have some acting chops. Keep going, girl. Keep pushing and challenging yourself. It's a pleasure to watch. This has only happened to me once before in five years of drama watching - and it's when Infinite's idol L turned the corner from She's So Lovely to Ruler of the Mask. Talent and hard work are such a joy to watch!
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7 Adal
September 13, 2017 at 10:31 PM
This episode was simply heartbreaking and quite frankly, disturbing. I loathe to watch the next episodes, because the Queen I loved so dearly died tragically heartbroken. Never say she was innocent, because she certainly caused her share of grief, but I would've preferred it if she died surrounded by her sons and the retainers who loved her, and not falsely accused.
The friendship I treasured so highly is rife with misunderstandings and hurt. Most of this could have been prevented if there was better communication earlier. If Rin had just spoken to Won before he kissed San, especially about his father and SongIn; maybe Won would have been more disposed to listen to him.
I was a RinSan shipper, but Won with all his insecurities and paranoia, is the one who's truly tugging at my heart strings. He married Dan, a woman he did not love to hold on to Rin, and now he is going to lose him regardless. His love, San will never come to him, as she is in love with Rin, and with his obsessiveness, he risks alienating her friendship. His beloved mother is dead and his father hates him. So now, he has no one, since he won't look outside the cage he's built for himself; what a lonely position to be in! Should I say that Karma bites? He deprived San of her last moments with her dear father, and now SongIn ensured that the last communication he would have with his mother was a threat to kill her if she enters his chambers. Is turnabout FairPlay or what????
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outofthisworld
September 13, 2017 at 10:47 PM
I think Rin is not telling Won because if Won knows the truth, he would stop Rin and take over. Won would want to protect everything, his throne, San and Rin.
Maybe Rin thinks he can let Won misunderstand him, make Won give up on San and take himself out of the picture so that Song In would have no one to place on the throne. Song In's ultimate objective is to rule but he needs someone who the people can look up to to take over from the King. It's only transitional because once the change takes place, Song In can do whatever he wants.
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 1:09 AM
"I would've preferred it if she died surrounded by her sons and the retainers who loved her, and not falsely accused."
So many yes. Except that she was holding the peony, her death was really pitiful. I kept comparing it to Queen Ji So's of Hwarang. Both were heartbroken by their sons and the man they trully loved but Queen Ji So in her last moment was with the man he always loved and a man who deeply cared for her and she already made peace with her son.
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hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 4:33 AM
Things might be better if Rin told Won the truth, but it could go worse. I take it as Rin knows Won the best and he knew if he told Won the truth about the King and Song In, Won might plot something and Song In as a manipulator as he's always been knows how to use Won's scheme to go against Won. Look at how Rin cringed when there's an accusation that Won is using San for his own greed: love and wealth. And when Won decided to marry Dan and ignored to investigate about the stolen grain issue (in order to save both Rin and San), people around Won used it to accuse Won for not being worthy to rule as he ignored the rules. So I think it's wise of Rin for not telling Won because Won has always been the emotional one and always acts using his heart to save his loved one. It's noble thing, but it's also dangerous for him.
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Sherry
September 14, 2017 at 12:31 PM
I agree...if Rin told him if would have made things worse for CP
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Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 5:49 AM
Won always act on impulse. Remember the San's kidnapping incident. That is a trap set by SongIn and Won gets into it directly as Teacher Lee said.
So if Rin told Won, definitely Won will called all army generals and this will just makes things worst. SongIn will be alarmed, he may killed prince kang yang or worst kill the king and fog the documents for enthroning new king.
And as we know, SongIn's group is big and the number of people under his influence is so many that it has penetrated the whole Goryeo. So if you are not be careful, you can never win the game.
And tbh, the less people know about your game plan the better as it can be done quietly and successfully. More often thatn not, if too many people know abt some secret plan, the plan will failed.
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RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 12:05 PM
I'm with you. I love Rin and San together, but lately I feel so sorry for Won - despite his continued obsessive non-love to San - that I want more to see the friendship between the 3 repaired. I don't see it ever completely going back to the way it was though, since he's going to have to eventually let them go in some capacity.
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8 atz
September 13, 2017 at 10:31 PM
If I were San, I would have said Fxx off to Won already. She is way too nice but at the same time she is afraid that her slight action or words might threaten Rin against Won. She being nice towards Won might not be truly based on their friendship but partly based on her tactics not to cross Won or push Won so that Rin and she ( and her people) can survive. I guess that is why she seems so vague for her feeling for the two men. What a manipulative prick Won can be. Thank God San seems to see through it and chose Rin. Won`s love for San is an obsession as if he wants to hold on to things that he is not/cannot allowed to have. San is indeed an endangered bird that needs to be freed but Won likes to keep the bird as his most treasured pet and willing to build a cage the size of his palace for her.
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:31 AM
That's why you are not San. San cares for Won, you don't.
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Piggy
September 14, 2017 at 8:13 PM
Exactly, obviously this one isn't really watching, but is merely shipping.
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9 ajeera
September 14, 2017 at 12:57 AM
could anyone comment on the King conversation with Rin ?
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 1:18 AM
About the King asked Rin to save him?
Surely the King must have figured that he has been poisoned but he is too weak now to fight Song-In & Co and he has no back up. Won never come to him they more like enemy to each other. The King only hope is Rin. It doesn't mean he will make Rin the next King though well I'm not sure.
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10 ajeera
September 14, 2017 at 12:59 AM
can anyone comment on King conversation with rin..
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11 fay17
September 14, 2017 at 1:35 AM
Comment was deleted
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12 Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 1:51 AM
I think this drama thought me a lot about love. Not only romantic love but also selfless love, love between true friends and family love...
Sometime love can be suffocating... Just like princess ws and won's love. They didn't grow up with warm love (coz their royal background) so they ended up craving and demanding love. Won doesn't know what is the true meaning of love.. In his mind, if he doesn't get that person's love then it is not love. That is why he tries really hard to keep that person (rin and san) close to him, no matter what ot takes even caging him/her if necessary. His loneliness and sadness make him that way....
San - lost her family members including her beloved mom and then her father. Like teacher Lee have said, she needs to see other people happy for her to be happy. Which is why she can't leave Won after seeing with her own eyes how sad/miserable he is with his father (who hates him) and his mother. She loves Rin, but until won is happy/willing to let her go, I don't think she could openly say her true feelings to won.
Rin - always taking care of Won. I Don't remember what makes him approached Won when he was younger. Did he feel sorry/pity to the boy who silently cried alone? Was it first a pity then turn into sympathy then (family/friendship) love? Why Rin become Rin that we all know and love? Why is he so selfless, loyal and caring? I think in some way, Rin is so similar (yet different) with San. He too can be happy if the person he loves also happy... That is why I think he would never go dark and betray Won. He is that kind of person..
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Sherry
September 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM
yep i totally agree with you
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13 Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 3:36 AM
I feel for Won, his grief has such a crushing portion of guilt attached. So sad that he didn't let her talk to him in the days before her death.
It certainly would better if he'd done that then obsessively worrying about San. My creep meter has been soaring to new heights as he tries to convince himself that San will become his if only he can keep her quiet and contained
Until When Won! How Long do keep someone locked up in the name of love?? Until their will to live, to love just shrivels up and dies?! Crazy Man. Sorry.
Anyway Siwan really makes me feel for him in everything except for his thing with San
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:10 AM
I feel for Won too, but he uses pity to get what he wants.
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:16 AM
On the contrary, that's exactly what Won does not want. He doesn't want to be seen, to be comforted, to be pitied when he's at his lowest. We see it clearly from the way he kept pushing San away in a way he's never behaved towards San before. Normally if San came to him and hugged him he would be overjoyed, but now he doesn't even want her to be Close. When Won is hurt his instinct is to lash out, one of the reasons I believe is that he doesn't want to be pitied. We also see this from the way he reacted when Rin dared Approach him despite him commanding no one to come Close lest he be seen crying.
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:35 AM
Also: he hid in a tree when he was Young to cry.
When Won is sad or crying, he hides, he yells and screams, and he tries to turn his despair and grief into Anger to not Show any weakness. I just remembered I used to do this when I was a child. Instead of crying, I tried to turn my tears into Aggression, lest anybody see my tears. I wanted neither pity nor indifference, definitely not to Show my vulnerability, better they hate me for being loud and hurtful than be pitied or ridiculed for my tears.
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Piggy
September 14, 2017 at 8:16 PM
Well, that is clearly not the case. It never appeared, nor it was implied that he uses pity to get what he wants. Maybe you should just try to re-watch.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 11:44 PM
There's a lot about pity, forget which episodes, but it's like a set of episodes will focus on one thing and I remember distinctly one set being about pity. I am rewatching, so when I come to those episodes I'll write down what I noticed.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 11:46 PM
Oops, also, he's used pity to manipulate others. I'll try to find the quotes. This isn't to say I don't like Won at all, my own mother tries to use pity to manipulate, and I've been known to follow that trait, so I easily recognize it. Each character has his/her own issues and faults, which makes them more human. I love the complexity.
14 Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 3:58 AM
I'm really quite surprised that therer is still a question who is in her heart. To me it seems obvious. What I do find surprising is how fast Won assumed Rin broke faith with him. Rin has been acting pretty shady (talk to each other!) but hell I still trust him and I barely know him.
Rin probably knows Won won't listen because of Wons massive inferiority complex regarding Rin had him assuming that Rin would(should) step up to take his place, which must be the main reason he has never completely let himself believe Rin could love/value him as much as he does Rin - if that makes sense, when I start the thought it does, by the end...
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winter
September 15, 2017 at 8:44 AM
I have never thought of Won having an inferiority complex but now that you say it I believe it's very accurate @_@
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15 xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 4:27 AM
I've been quite busy and this ep is taking me back that I wish I am less busy so I can have more time to rewatch.
Aside from that, I think I was mistaken when I watch this the 1st time and I really wish they showed what happens after the kiss.
I agree with many of the things that make us love the drama so I think I want to chime in with the story flow.
There is a lot of scenes that seem to be missing intentionally just to create suspense which for me is unnecessary. Who is in San's heart is unnecessary to be hiding until now, what is Rin monologue and plan is hidden somehow and we can't guess if we don't get the background information.
It's fine to reveal San's heart, Rin's plan or Song in definite plan cause that doesn't mean the story will change. The character will still in blind but the viewer will have a better looked in the situation.
I think San identified with Won as someone who has nothing and lost many things important in their life but that doesn't mean that she can grants him the love that he wants.
San looked so happy with Rin tells that both her and Rin has the same view about the world. It seems that Rin and San feel the same about how to fix the things up, by removing themselves in the equation because they feel that they become the obstacle in Won's journey to be the King.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 6:29 AM
"It's fine to reveal San's heart, Rin's plan or Song in definite plan cause that doesn't mean the story will change. The character will still in blind but the viewer will have a better looked in the situation."
This is my main grouse with the writer. I don't mind a love triangle, I don't mind having a Second Lead Syndrome but I dislike the writer still trying to be 'ambiguous' at this stage. To me it's very obvious that San's choice is Rin but it might be just as obvious to Won-San camp that San's choice is Won.
I didn't like this trick in Reply series which may be why I only watched one - R1988. If I can infer from just that one show, Reply's method is a little different. I was in neither camp and I felt it could potentially go both ways. However in this show, without looking at symbols of red thread and what knots, just by San's body language, eyes and behavior, it's obvious to me that it is Rin. But then again, if you ask a Won-San shipper, they can give you many more reasons why it's Won.
I wish they had just taken this out of the equation and let it be a normal love triangle.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:14 AM
I agree with you except that I wonder how much of the Goryeo times where it's a death sentence to take away something the King loves. At least this is what I see in other sageuks. So this might be a huge factor in what's holding Rin and San back. Right now it's really muddled, I'm assuming from the writing. Or maybe it was there in previous episodes but they were such small hints we missed them. I remember Rin wanting to leave because his heart was breaking and he didn't have the right to like San.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 9:52 AM
As what @xiaojingyan wrote, the writer could have shown us but the characters in the story aren't in the know.
Poor Rin! I think he wanted to leave when he realized he was falling in love with San. He also wanted to take himself out of the contention for the throne. Things just kept happening that he couldn't leave.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 9:18 AM
I think that Answer Me series is a series that intentionally do that and it works because the other plot element is not something that needs another mystery.
Because we've seen the future, there is not much stake on their personal life as we as the viewer aware and all is well. No matter what had happened in the past, their life experience and their win or even loss, we've seen them fine in the present timeline.
This love triangle can't work here cause we need the answer for a lot of things and the plot can't move as fast as the other without solving the love triangle.
If we know the answer by now, we can make a coherent story of how and why the character chooses to do that.
I can totally see that Won San can happen as Won firm believe never change, always steady, never waver, Won is the male lead and we have the next week cause Rin . . .
Then when we see from the interaction, I really can't see San and Won, she always avoids him, even if she treats him nice, she never accepted him in a way that he wants and with Rin, she becomes more honest, receptive, trusted and it feels they are on the same page even with minimal conversation. Her facial expression also more welcomed to Rin.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 9:20 AM
aah I wrote this badly, I hope you can still understand what I mean,
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 9:57 AM
Don't worry, I think I understand what you mean.
About San's behavior towards the two men, I think I have asked myself several times if this is what I'd do or behave with a guy who I see as a friend or as someone more than a friend. And my answer is always the same - Won is the friend and Rin is the love interest.
RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 12:09 PM
Completely agree with you. I don't know if it's the editing or not (I feel like they leave out things they shouldn't quite a bit). I think I'm catching all the hints as to the characters' feelings and motivations, but an internal monologue here and there would be nice. Or just a random conversation with someone. We used to get lovely internal monologues, what happened? I am inclined to think it's editing to try and troll viewers.
But then these people suck at having conversations with each other, so who knows.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 1:04 PM
Yes, for all their talking, they do suck at actually telling anything important to anyone--except for Bi-Yeon, everyone should just have that girl on speed dial if they want to be in the know. ??♀️
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16 Katrina
September 14, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Who else felt sorry for poor Dan? She might be a little selfish, but I really felt for her. Every time Won would try to touch or talk to San I just wanted to yell at him to go "Talk to Your Wife!" And yeah I know he only did it to save Rin but hell he's known her all his life. Certainly long enough be kind to her, or even enough to want to preserve her pride by going through the marriage ceremonies required. He's do selfish.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 9:23 AM
I feel bad when Dan went to visit the king and queen alone,
I understand Won feeling but that just a little time, it's a custom and a responsibility that you take yourself, there's no harm to do that and he refused.
At least you don't embarrass her like that in public.
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RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 12:11 PM
Not taking a few minutes to follow the ritual and greet the parents was unnecessarily rude in my opinion. Probably partly brought on because she's Rin's sister.
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irmar
September 14, 2017 at 12:43 PM
I don't feel sorry in the least for this girl. Won was honest and kind to her, but she got greedy and started saying "Oh, maybe I'm bad for saying that but... could I have more?" "You cannot do this, you cannot do that". She made an agreement with him and then she presumes to overturn it and claim her rights, including exert power to separate him from the woman he loves and stick her nose in his affairs.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 2:09 PM
I think it's a different part. She is fine with him not visiting her because that is what they agree on but visiting the parents right after the wedding?
That's is one occasion with the wedding itself.
That's the custom and I find that inappropriate,
the deal is between the two of them but they never specifically said anything about how to behave in the crowd.
Is it too much for showing the 1st respect as a couple to the mass [as their parents and the palace people]?
Going to the palace to greet the parents aren't asking more, it's what he needs to do to whoever he is married to.
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17 hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 4:42 AM
I hate-love Princess Wonsung. I hated her when she's ruthless, but loved her when she's trying her best to provide for her son. I'm sad at the very last moment, she's all alone without her son and the King by her side :( . Though the King might be a douchebag for the past few episodes, but it feels good when the King sincerely asked her if she's well. I feel sad when Princess Wonsung cried for anyone's help for the King. Gosh, she loved the King way more than the King deserved.
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 4:59 AM
It hurts to she her cried for help for the King. Even after all this way, she still loved him. But then again, it's understandable that the King despised her after what she had done to the first Queen and the former Crown Prince...
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM
He courted her, a Teenager, proud princess of the mongol empire, and begged on his knees for her Hand for 5 years, alas he only did it to ensure his own power and Position. Then she fell for his foul tricks and traveled to Goryeo where she knew no one, not the language nor the culture and nothing, but him, who she thought loved her. And saw, to her displeasure, that he already had a wife he loved, that his son is around her own Age, and that she was being treated like a guest in her own house. That Situation for a woman back then is not reversible. Should she have sat and smiled while big with his child, 15 years old and used as a political tool only, and born with it for all her life? You tell me.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 6:36 AM
I think the King had a place in his heart for her but he never forgave her for driving away his queen and his firstborn. The fact that she was a Yuan Princess and he couldn't do anything to her probably made him hate her more. He resorted to emotional abuse which was unfortunately extended to his son.
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DoubleFault
September 14, 2017 at 9:07 AM
The King is such a wasted character. They could've really done more with him. For majority of the episodes, he has been portrayed as petty, insecure and somewhat of a douchebag. They could've instead focused on him "sacrificing" his first wife and son to keep the peace between Yuan and Goryeo. Show him feeling guilty about "selling out" his nation to the Mongols. Instead, I keep asking what made Princess Wonsung fall so deeply in love with him. I can't find anything to love.
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hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 9:14 AM
I guess what made Princess Wonsung fell in love with him is because she was young and the only one who cared for her at that time was the King. It's the young and foolish love, I bet.
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 7:19 PM
@DoubleFault,
"The King is such a wasted character."
Not only is the king wasted and underdeveloped as a character, I've been thinking for quite a while that Jung Bo-suk was being wasted as an actor, too. But in this episode he's finally given an opportunity to reveal a different side of the king's character, and he delivered. The way his gaze shifted ever so slightly was terrific. (I loved Jung Bo-suk's performance in CAN YOU HEAR MY HEART?)
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 7:52 PM
Yes, he certainly was wasted. I've mentioned this in at least 2 recaps, that he had to be somewhat strong, at least in the eyes of Yuan, to stay in power for over 30 years. You can't be a puppet of internal political posturing for that long, can you? And I read that his and Won's real relationship was a tenuous one, but it was really the king that orchestrated himself staying in power for so long (not Song-In). He was portrayed as weak, paranoid, and easily manipulated, which is probably far from the truth, I think. He even supported the Mongols invasion of Japan (if Wikipedia can be trusted). I'm sure King Chungryeol is rolling in his grave.
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winter
September 15, 2017 at 8:53 AM
Haha but imagine what real Won might think about this, he might be coming out of his grave now as we speak XDD
Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 6:04 AM
indeed its a waste of character but i think he did felt guilty for "selling out" his nation to Yuan. in his defense, he fought and he begged for mercy to Yuan to save Goryeo. He even agree to marry Yuan princess to save his nation and people.
That is why he is angry when Wonsung send his first queen and his son to exile. he told Won, that he felt ashamed to visit them as he failed to protect them. Before sending to exile, WoSung even demoted the first queen to concubine as she wants the queen title. The first queen never got angry or feel disheartened.
And ever since that, pratically Yuan is controlling Goryeo. He need to obey what ever Yuan asked. he cannot even protect the ladies of Goryeo when Yuan asked for tributes (this is handled by Wonsung). He has nothing to say when Yuan asked for royal hostage. And most importantly, he said he cannot even disciplined his own son coz everytime he treated Won wrong, Kublai khan will meddle in.
So to blame him wasted his title as king yes. but what else can he do when Yuan is always there watching him handling his nation.
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18 miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 4:53 AM
I can't help to compare Won character with Ji-dwi (Hwarang) because their situation are very similar in these dramas. Both are future kings, have ruthless moms who want to rule their lives, unrequited love, and about to be deposed from their positions.
-In term of lacking parents' nurture, Ji-dwi probably less fortunate than Won because he had lived in exile since his father passed away when he was child and came back to the palace years after only to be rejected by his mom demanding him to go back into hiding. Ji-dwi only has his one loyal bodyguard but because he had learn things outside the palace he is more independent and thoughtful than Won.
-King Quality: Won wasn't interested in the throne to begin with (he probably still not) therefore he didn't prepare to be King. While Ji-dwi must struggle to claim his position and prove to the country that he's worthy of the throne. Won has great resources and back up to learn every thing but he only just started it for a reason he needs more power to protect the 'people' he cares about.
-Romantic love: Between the two I don't know who is more obsessive and pushy. There are these same scene of Ji-dwi and Won where each confessed to the girl if they should give up their position and run away/go on the journey together. Both girls commented the same about King/Crown Prince should not deter. To Ji-dwi it's a confirmation and encouragement that he has responsibility to his people of Shilla and not just to one person (the girl he loved). Won though still doesn't get it.
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winter
September 14, 2017 at 10:24 AM
Ji-dwi is not half as dependant and insecure as Won. Won's world was Rin, nothing else gave him pleasure, at least before he met San. Ji-dwi like you said had a Goal, he was only being protected which is why he didn't live in the Palace but he was preparing for and looking Forward to become the king. Won on the other Hand has gotten fed up with being pushed back and forth between his parents, his mother's smothering love and his father's insults and humiliations. Won wanted to be Hancheon, the happy carefree guy who likes to wander and drink wine. Never once in his life has he truly embraced what he cannot desert - the Position of the crown prince.
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 11:12 PM
I completely understand Won's dilema caught in between his parents. But he has to grow up, be strong, and make up his mind. Decide, if he wants to stay as crown prince and become king or take the other way. I mean every one has things they have to bear and it's not like his parents want him dead. For how long is he going to play around? For now he won't make a good king to me. My only complain with this drama is Won is portrayed week.
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winter
September 15, 2017 at 9:04 AM
I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's that easy. For us when we feel stifled by our parents and don't want to live the way they want us to, we get a job and move out. One day we will reconcile with them and we can be decent persons doing this. Won however never had a real chance to live a life where he's not CP or king, he can't just leave the palace because frankly he has never learned any skills that make him able to survive on his own. On top of that, life of a common man without family or skills was miserable back then. And on top of THAT, we know he becomes king anyway XD
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19 jess
September 14, 2017 at 4:55 AM
I really didn't expect the impending death of Princess Wonsung to be THAT heartbreaking. She's no angel at all but I cant help but to symphatize with her.
I agree with @murasakimi, I appreciate the complexity and how we get to analyze the drama through the lens of friendship instead of the usual romance angle. I have faith in WonRin bromance that they'll overcome this. The drama doesnt really follow the novel, but the novel's ending can be considered as a happy ending for the trio's friendship... So I'm still wishing we'll get that too here.
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20 koreandramalover/kay
September 14, 2017 at 5:44 AM
Rin-San shippers really need to read this blog - breathlesssurvival.
Breathless writes so eloquently and so spot-on that I can't help but squeeee along with her. Hehehe!!
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Sawa
September 14, 2017 at 7:47 AM
Thanks a lot!!!!!!! I'm very excited...
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 8:46 AM
Yes, thanks for that blog. I went there and oops, I almost spoilered the next episodes. But check it out. Between watching TKIL on two different sites and getting two different subtitles, reading this review/comments and Breathless, it helps a lot for understanding all the subtle things I don't always get. I can't believe it's almost over and we still can't predict what's going to happen.
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21 Elenia
September 14, 2017 at 6:27 AM
Kudos to Jang Young Nam for delivering a grand finale of her marvelous performance of this show's most compelling character Princess Wonsung. Her slow decline into weakness bit for bit was very good to watch. She already fell when Won refused to let her see him but still wanted to aid him so she called Teacher Lee. When Rin came she gave up her pride and begged him only to experience another low point after his confession. I loved how she acted her character's reaction to Rin. When she screamed "Wang Rin I know you would do this" it was helpless, desperate, angry and disappointed which was the most nuanced emotion she put in there. While she always mistrusted Rin's position and family she still thought high of him and trusted his goodness. She never thought he would instigate treason by himself. That's why all her attempts on him were non lethal always just trying to get him far away from Won either as tribute in Yuan or exiled. The last straw was seeing the King so helpless and precious bodyguard killed in front of her. She had nothing to live for anymore. When she looked at the flower you could she her life slowly getting away until her final breath. I was in awe watching the whole time. Jang Young Nam brought it to another level for her last time. Her character's death is the most crucial moment of the series and her performance elevated it to epic levels. Not even a potential death of Rin would make the same impact Wonsung's death made. It changes Won and makes the emotional and political outcomes completely unpredictable.
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Adal
September 14, 2017 at 7:39 AM
??
You summed up my feelings exactly!
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jess
September 14, 2017 at 8:00 AM
Jang Young Nam is a really great actress. She delivered such a nuanced performance. If the character were potrayed by less skilled actress, I don't think I'd symphatized with Princess Wonsung. But woah the death of Wonsung hurts so bad...
It reminds me of the first time seeing Jang Youngnam in a movie, Cha Taehyun's Hello Ghost. I was so moved by her ghost character (and the plot twist!) that I immediately googled her name to see who the wonderful actress was. I've been a fan ever since.
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22 Elenia
September 14, 2017 at 7:18 AM
I wanted to pay tribute to Jang Young Nam and her great performance in my other comment. Still I have to separately point out things that bugged me while watching the episode. While Princess Wonsung’s death was emotionally acted it was written very conveniently to flow with the plot. I get how emotionally drained she was in the end to the point of death but the plot leading to her death didn’t make sense to me.
The plot points are Won’s rejection for her to see him, hearing Rin’s confession and getting to the room to see the sick king, her bodyguard being killed and dying alone in her room. Emotionally it all makes sense but up until the point where she discovers Song In with Boo Yong the writing gets messy and is completely carried by acting instead of plot logic.
1.)Judging by their surprised face Song In and Boo Yong didn’t expect her. How did she get in there unnoticed by them when Song In was always so careful about keeping the king separated and always making sure to know who is entering to see the king?
2.)Moo Suk’s masked men barge into the room. Song In ad-libs trying to get out of the situation by threatening to kill the king. Which is nonsense since they still need the king alive. But let’s just say Song In bluffed because he knows Princess Wonsung loved the king and just wanted her to get out of the room and think about the next strategy later. Still his next move killing Furatai in front of her is contra-productive. What if she gets madder after that and unleashed all her Yuan influence and fury on them?
3.)Furatai’s sacrifice made no sense. He was panically defending her and acting like those assassins were there to kill her. But Princess Wonsung was never in real danger. She is still a Yuan princess and no way they could kill her in the room like that. It proved when Song In let her go. Why would he kill her bodyguard in such a cruel way in front of her and then just let her leave? Princess Wonsung is infamous for getting cruelly back at her enemies.
4.)Even if it was a set up by Song In and he deliberately let her in the room and only acted surprised. How could he predict that Princess Wonsung would die of heartbreak right after that? He couldn’t foresee all the above mentioned plot points. The only thing he could do was killing her bodyguard and showing the sick king. But would that have been enough to send Princess Wonsung into oblivion. And how could he ensure that her reaction would be heartbreak then death? Since Princess Wonsung only showed vulnerability with her inner circle shouldn’t the expected reaction for outsiders be for her to lash out on them after she discovered their affair in front of the king?
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 7:11 PM
I was startled when Princess Wonsung and Furatai walked in on Song In and Boo-yong. It was completely out of left field. Given that Song In normally has tight security, I couldn't figure out how the queen was able to catch him and Mubi in flagrante delicto.
The only thing that comes to mind is that the king and queen had had such civil -- even warm -- discourse when arriving at the throne room and while waiting for Won to show up after his wedding ceremony. They both expressed genuine concern for each other's health, so maybe Princess Wonsung really was just checking up on him.
Re: Wonsung's failing health. The way she's been hacking, I'd gotten the feeling she might have had tuberulosis, which would fit it with a long, wasting disease. I would bet the ranch that she kept it hushed up to keep her enemies in the dark. The last thing she would want them to know was the tigress was weakening, let alone dying. It was the last thing she could do to protect Won.
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23 Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 8:43 AM
It's hard to comment when I've seen the next two episodes. So, who will get the best couple award? RinSan or WonSan? Best costuming, best music, best couple (RinSan!) best actor - HJH or ISW? HJH's role is more understated and subtle but I wish he would win anyway. Is there a category for best and most noble sageuk character in a drama? HJH.
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PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 8:12 PM
This may be one year when "Best Couple" will turn out to be "Best Trio." ;-)
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Are you talking about the MBC drama awards? I'm not sure if any from this show is going to win, nominated yes, but lately it's been all abouy the ratings. About HJH well I love his portrayal as Rin but sorry I must give best actor to his best buddy KYK for the outstanding performance in Lookout.
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PakalanaPikake
September 15, 2017 at 1:49 AM
Manseh for Kim Young-Kwang in LOOKOUT. A terrific performance for sure. But everyone will be up against Lee Dong-gun's tour de force in SEVEN DAY QUEEN... And Kim Ji-suk was no slouch in his turn as Yeonsangun in REBEL. (Don't forget Kim Sang-joong as Amogae and Yoon Kyun-sang as Gil-dong, either.) And then there's that little matter of Yang Se-jong's quadruple role in DUEL.
There have been some epic performances this year. And there's still another quarter to go. Have mercy when it comes to the drama awards.
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miselpo
September 15, 2017 at 3:33 AM
Yes rooting for Lee Dong-gun for KBS daesang and Kim Young-kwang for MBC. I don't know if cables like OCN also have year end drama awards, do they?
Indeed Yang Se-jong was brilliant in Duel I think no actor had done it before. As for Rebel I haven't seen it yet so.
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outofthisworld
September 15, 2017 at 4:59 AM
Yes! What epic performances we had this year and I am glad it wasn't all from the usual suspects.
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24 outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 9:11 AM
Since I'm a latecomer to the show and new to this show's recaps, I don't know if anyone has discussed the novel here. I just read the synopsis and Won is much darker in the story.
Also, did Song Ji Na or the cast mentioned something about a twist? Was it this information that led viewers to think she will deviate from the novel and give a different pairing?
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:16 AM
We don't know but most of us don't want to know what's in the novel. As someone mentioned, at this point in time if the writer has WonSan end up together we'll all feel we've been trolled.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 9:23 AM
We've mentioned it in passing, but in no detail. First, because of the fear of introducing spoilers, then, after if seemed the drama was taking a different trajectory altogether, because it seems irrelevant to mention it. The consensus is that no one knows if the end will take a 180 degree turn and San ends up with Won, like most kdramas, or if it will remain true to the ending of the book. I think that's why everyone is so exasperated actually!
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 9:27 AM
I heard there is a twist because song jina isn't the main writer at the start, I'll try to find it but I am not sure,
I believe I find on the soompi forum, it talks that the drama will deviate from the novel but we don't know in what aspect. I assumed most viewers deduced it was about the love triangle as most Kdrama has this unspoken rule about male lead get the girl.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 9:38 AM
If she ends up with Won, then the writers made a terrible mistake in casting HJH as Rin because he's so unbelievably perfect. And because they wrote his part so nobly and in total devotion to San (and to Won). And the longing looks they give to each other until we know for sure where her heart is...
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Sherry
September 14, 2017 at 12:24 PM
I think San likes the " mask man" that saved her - which is Rin. When she almost fell and he grabbed her , then she realized why she was feeling how she was around Rin...Even when she was talking with the maid and she said to forget the other man...San was like can you forget the man that saved you...
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 5:48 PM
She was curious about the masked man but the scene where she first really noticed Rin was when he told her to make a memory. Then she looked at him seriously.
xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 2:33 PM
I think if she ends up with Won, they better put a long explanation about why she always chooses to avoid him.
I mean, she saw how lonely he is and how she can cheer him up so I find it really odd that won has to asked multiple times just for her to stay.
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Yone
September 14, 2017 at 3:17 PM
One explanation could be that San avoided Won because she knew that Rin also loved her and didn't want to ruin the friendship even if she was in love with Won.
I'm expecting whoever she loves will get a flashback where she realized that she fell for him. I think it can go both ways. She hasn't shown any obvious signs. Even if it would be fitting for Won to end up alone.
xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 4:00 PM
@yone
I think the show implied San fall in love way before she knew Rin likes her,
she only knew Rin kinda likes her in the morning before the crown princes' selection.
I do expect a flashback from where she falls in love but to see that her reaction to Won is consistent makes me wonder that if it indeed won, the explanation hardly aligns with that behaviour.
outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 9:42 AM
@linda-palapala @allly @xiaojingyan
Thank you for your replies. I just happened to find it in one of the comments on another forum and was quite surprised by a few things.
Despite being on Rin-San ship, I only ask for character consistency and a story that makes sense. Hopefully, the finale will deliver these.
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25 Ally
September 14, 2017 at 9:31 AM
Oh, and I just wanted to mention, in case anyone forgot- the costumes and fabrics these episodes are ???. From Won's gold hanbok, to the Princess' three hanboks, to Rin, oh-my-precious Rin's vest, when he walked into the special assembly and commanded everyone's attention with those broad shoulders made to look even broader just by costuming. Clothing certainly make the man.
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hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM
You tell me, when Rin walked thru the door with his new shiny hanbok, I screamed like a fangirl! ??? He's so swoony. Gah.
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outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 9:45 AM
The costumes and just about everything iis so beautiful.
By the way, are they wearing hanboks? I thought hanboks were Joseon wear and these are Goryeo's. But I have no idea what they are called, the costumes are very similar to the ones in Chinese period dramas. Probably because the fashion then was influenced by China.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 9:52 AM
Idk, really. So robes might be more appropriate. Someone on an earlier recap called it hanbok and it stuck, I guess? I've been saying vests unless they're very ornate--then I use hanbok.
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RoseTyler
September 14, 2017 at 12:17 PM
All the heart eyes for Rin! I have been loving the costuming and styling in this show so much. In my opinion, Rin and the queen had the best clothes. I like some of Won's (especially the prince robes), but some of his clothes have been kind of ill-fitting. I've also liked most of the hair styles, with the exception of the weird horn-bangs they gave HJH in the first couple of episodes! Other than Rin is just a whole other level of swoony.
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 5:07 PM
LOL... The weird horn-bangs!!!! Yesss... It's so cringey coz it makes HJH looks so much older and dorky! I am glad they change his hairstyle.. HJH is more handsome with bangs. I also like his hairstyle in Style Log..
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miselpo
September 14, 2017 at 11:42 PM
About his hairstyle in Style Log (and also in Cyrano) there's conversation between GF and JB! Go check it out;)
http://www.dramabeans.com/2013/05/dating-agency-cyrano-begins-filming/
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Just Alee
September 15, 2017 at 9:06 AM
Awww.... They hate his hair... LOL!!
But I kinda like it. His hair in style log makes him look younger and stylish..
26 Yone
September 14, 2017 at 10:49 AM
The circumstances leading to Princess Wonsung’s death still seem icky and too conveniently fitting to the plot point of getting Won going dark because of a death to me. It still feels like the writer doesn’t want to go all out with Won so instead of going dark because of paranoia, obsession and self-absorption he gets consumed by grief and goes berserk. It feels like giving out an excuse to keep his image and first lead compatibility intact. So that shippers won’t be disappointed because one half of their preferred OTP is not shippable anymore.
I know that dramabeans is full of Rin fangirls to defend his every action while they condemn Won’s every action as childish and obsessive. Don’t get too mad but Im Siwan is the superior actor with the more complex role. Dramabeans seems to have belittle him to nothing but an obstacle standing in the way of a Rin/San relationship. But Won is more than an one-dimensional rejected scorned lover obsessively clinging onto the lead girl. At the bare core he is a lonely person deprived of affection by his own parents and never being able to fully trust someone because of his position as crown prince. Not only is his only romantic love unfulfilled it’s getting worse because that much desired romantic love is directed at his best friend who he also cherish so much. He feels betrayed by Rin twice. Politically and romantically. Him clinging onto San is as much obsession as it is a soothing try of holding together of what little he has left of company.
Im Siwan’s complex facial expressions are much more worth to watch than Hong Jong Hyun’s stiff expressions and Yoona’s ambiguous blank stares. If they had focused on Won and his journey into darkness instead of turning this into Twilight Goryeo this drama wouldn’t have suffered this slump and needed an extra kick in form of a dramatic death to get the show on its leg again. I hope they stop focusing on who San loves. Depict the erosion of the Won/Rin friendship and show how it will make Won utterly lonely in the end. I would honestly be disappointed if the show would end with them being friends again. Even if Won will get to know Rin’s secret plan the constant silence and lack of feedback from Rin’s side broke too much trust beyond the point of repair. Not only did Rin fall in love with San and tried to run away with her now Won must also always remember that Rin tried to humiliate his mother before her death. That’s too much baggage.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM
We get it. You like Im Siwan as Won and you're miffed that HJH is so popular. We all see what we want to see. But I totally disagree that HJH has stiff expressions. They are both perfect casting in their respective roles. From what I hear, the writers could have made Won much darker but chose to make him more conflicted. I'm re watching from the beginning and I love the friendship between Rin and Won in the beginning. I think the show definitely shows their relationship deteriorating, but I hope they become friends again in the end because it would show growth on both character's parts. From the voice overs though, it seems Won is writing his memoirs from years past and it sounds like he is lonely. That could mean Rin and San both left him either together because he let them go (the analogy of the caged bird or tethered falcon) or they've left him because they're both dead. If you take analogy to completion, the releasing of the falcon from its string doesn't work because once freed it still returns. I've wondered if the writers will pull what I've seen in a couple of other dramas where the friends/family dies and the main character sees them as ghosts while sharing a meal. That would certainly create a lasting memory.
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Yone
September 14, 2017 at 2:00 PM
My comment has nothing to do with being annoyed by Hong Jong Hyun's popularity and I honestly fail to get how you came to that conclusion. I just pointed out that some dramabeans comments reduced Won's character complexity to a jealous obsessive stalker because they want Rin/San to end up together. So I explained why Won is more complex than that.
I also wasn't talking about popularity when I praised Im Siwan's acting and called Hong Jong Hyun stiff. You see there is a difference between likeability created by writing and by acting. Rin is written as noble, shy, self sacrificing and loyal. On paper he is just the one way good guy with no other flaw. People like him cause he is well written. Hong Jong Hyun does little to nothing acting out Rin's emotions on his face. There is a difference in acting the character as calm and collected instead of stone faced like he does. I simply don't find his performance to be well done. He is practically carried by the writing and his handsomeness. Which shows in the comments where people mostly rave about his looks.
I didn't complain about their popularity. I judged their acting. Just making this clear.
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justme
September 14, 2017 at 2:24 PM
What are you doing here, yourhighness? Just go and stay in Soompi.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 5:08 PM
I got it from your words. You don't seem to understand why others don't see your pov. Won's character hasn't been reduced by any means. But he's obviously obsessive at least so far and it isn't jealousy really, but insecurity. Go back and re watch, these traits are obvious. He's relied too much on Rin to be his flagpole and to keep him steady. In my re watching I've noticed HJH has just as much facial expression as Siwan, but Won is supposed to be more childlike with the wonder of new things and new experiences.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 5:54 PM
In re reading these comments I realize they are rather Rin heavy...I need to go list all the character traits that I find interesting about Won's personality. The two of them are the most interesting of course when interacting together, each a reflection of the other.
Tash7157
September 15, 2017 at 2:41 AM
The reason you cant see that is because you are already bias to Siwan. No doubt Siwan is a better actor than HJH. That is why a complex char like WOn, not many ppl cant take it. But that doesn't mean HJH cannot act. To me this is the best acting from him. He delivered Rin just as what it supposed to be. The fact that to get an actor playing Rin is the hardest among other characters just show how particular they are in finding actor to play Rin.
I think many agree HJH manage to bring out Rin. Actually he made Rin character his. Many seems to forget or some even didn't realized he is the evel 3rd prince in Moon Lovers because of his potrayal ad Rin. To me, as an actor he already delivered.
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dani
September 15, 2017 at 3:14 AM
Agreed. I think HJH did fine as Wang Rin. I can feel emotions from him and to me, he is Rin. I cannot imagine other actors being him.
Ally
September 14, 2017 at 11:26 AM
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 11:29 AM
I'll give some love to Im Siwan soon, don't you worry! ? I agree, his character is definitely more complex and he's killing it.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 11:32 AM
Killing, meaning doing an awesome job portraying Won. *I forget that English may not be everyone's preferred language, so sorry if this sounds condescending*
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irmar
September 14, 2017 at 12:53 PM
Exactly! The writer has tried to make all characters interesting, but it's the actor that gives life to the written lines. Poor HJH has not more than two expressions - three, if we want to be kind and include the slight furrowing of the brows as a variation the worried one.
The road to maturity of a highly intelligent, warm-hearted but insecure boy is the main story of this drama. How he learns to cater for himself and protect his loved ones, how he learns to let go of all human affection and stand completely alone. It's heartbreaking but very interesting to watch, thanks to this outstanding actor who expresses every complex nuance of his role.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 1:29 PM
Gah, I'm so tired of this. Im Siwan has a reputation for expression;, HJH has a reputation for being stiff, so you're coming in with prejudice. Won is written as immature, impulsive and animated and so he is. Rin is written as serious, dignified and quiet, which he is. They are both doing their jobs as actors. And don't assume we don't like Im Siwan, we do appreciate his role and his acting and his road to maturity, i.e. coming of age, or even a redemption arc.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 1:52 PM
Let me add, I hope no one is bashing Im Siwan's performance...I don't think so.
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Ally
September 14, 2017 at 1:32 PM
There is face and then there is eyes. HJH acts with his eyes more than with his face. It's subtle, but amazingly effective. Siwan acts with his entire face, also effective, but somehow HJH conveys everything we need to know through just his eyes. I think that's the main difference.
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Elenia
September 14, 2017 at 2:27 PM
There is face acting and eye acting but even if I like Rin's character Hong Jong Hyun does not act with his eyes. It's a sad puppy look for his normal face. When he's surprised/confused/flustered they are widening. When he gets angry they twitch and get smaller. And if he really were able to convey everything with his eyes how come that people who even liked his character needed to read the recap last episode to even understand his motivation? Subtle eye acting is what Jang Young Nam did when her character called Rin in and noticed the tension between San/Rin through one simple gaze. I think Hong Jong Hyun does what is need to be seen for Rin since he's quiet and not the main lead. But I wouldn't reach that far by calling it subtle and nuanced.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 2:58 PM
This reminds me of conservatives and liberals arguing...nobody's gonna win. Just let whoever like whoever for whatever reason and don't try to change anyone's mind. Doesn't work.
Ally
September 14, 2017 at 3:12 PM
Sure, you say potato, I say po-tah-to...?.
hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 5:21 PM
Maybe it's just you who don't get Rin's motivation while I've trusted Rin from the beginning until the end. Maybe you see Rin as you put yourself in Won's place. Won's blinded by jealousy that he couldn't see what's Rin's real intention.
Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 2:48 PM
Since reading the posts complaining about HJH two expressions I decided to really focus on both HJH and ISW expressions (I'm in 4th ep) So far I haven't seen any difference in either one's facial expressions.
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hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM
It's funny how people say HJH has two expressions when I think HJH is doing great on portraying Rin. When he's quiet, he actually speaks thousand words, like I know when he fell in love with San, when he cares about Won and when he's worried about the King and his family. I was never a fan of HJH before TKL, and I was a bit worried of him playing Rin when the news about casting him was out, but he proved me wrong. He nailed Rin's character perfectly and I could understand Rin's character accordingly because of HJH's expressions.
Maybe people talk about HJH more because it surprises them what HJH could bring in this drama. I also saw a lot of people commented about Yoona's acting which is again, because most of people had doubts on HJH and Yoona, but they both did amazing job and proved all the prejudices and doubts on them wrong. As for Siwan, it's been established that he's a great idol turned actor, so he's perfect on portraying Won. It's something that you don't really need to say it like duh, everyone knows about it.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 2:20 PM
I think a lot of people had mention Won in the part when he shines but Jang Young Nam delivered really memorable scenes for this ep so the crazy - super paranoia - possessive acting is being fulfilled more by her role.
If you trace back the recap, there's a lot of praises for Siwan as Won. How Won convey the utmost adoration, the attraction and how he changes his expression. It just imo, it's not as impactful as the queen cause both of them has the similar backstory, growing up alone and face suspicion from other. Got sceptical and use tactic to win the heart of people. I think the next episode is better at showing what Siwan can do as Won.
Regarding Hong Jong Hyun, I think he finds a role that fits him well. His expression matched the feeling the audience wants from him which is a surprise to most people since his reputation isn't that good. Rin supposed to be unreadable and whatever the reason is, HJH managed to do that so there's the credit for him.
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 4:32 PM
I sometimes confuse why people questioning who is the male lead in this drama, just because ISW's character doesn't receive love from the female lead (not the otp). Imo, im si wan obviously the lead. His character is very complex and under less-talented actor, won's character will be hated and forgettable from the beginning... But he is not. I am obviously rin shipper, but I can't hate Won... Just because I understand his pain, his yearning and obsession to receive love. He is a manipulator and sometimes his action is borderline creepy. BUT.... I can't hate him. He is like a child who wants attention who demand for all his need to be fulfill. Kudos to Im Si Wan for his acting skills to be able to potray such a difficult character!!
So... Don't get us wrong for being rin-shippers. We don't think im si wan is a less-talented actor than HJH (coz obviously he is not!). We love Rin coz his characterisation as the quiet, loyal and caring character... and also because he is so darn handsome with the best handbok. But im si wan shines the most in this drama for his performance...
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Just Alee
September 14, 2017 at 4:50 PM
Oww... I just remember that in Scarlet Heart, Baekhyun's character is also a childish and spoilt prince (I forgot his name. Is he the 10th prince?). But.... In a more talented and experience actor, I think his character can become more interesting. The 10th prince is very playful and cheerful, because he knows he is not smart in anything. He knows he is the most 'useless' child among his brothers... That is why he tries really hard to hide his sadness by appearing happy and have a care-free attitude. He loves all his brothers and he is also kind to others without considering the status. So imo, The 10th prince is also pitiful...
But, with baekhyun playing the 10th prince, the character became so stupid, useless, annoying and forgettable (sorry, exo-fans!!!)... I remember that many people comments why the drama put so many of his scene and why baekhyun potrayed his character like a 5 year old.
So what I am trying to say is... Im si wan definitely nailed his character here. Won could easily be hated as a creepy, obsessive and manipulator prince... But im si wan makes won very layered and complex.
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hannaehh
September 14, 2017 at 5:14 PM
"I sometimes confuse why people questioning who is the male lead in this drama, just because ISW's character doesn't receive love from the female lead (not the otp)"
THIS. I always have this thought like why can't they see it that Won is the first lead though he might not get the girl. And when this happens, I'll just assume that they don't watch enough dramas to tackle which character is the main character of the story.
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Elenia
September 14, 2017 at 8:43 PM
Storytelling wise Won shows all the first lead characteristics of being pushy and aggressive. I think people got confused because in any other k-drama this behaviour would have gotten him the girl. Even the promos were all about Siwan. I honestly think the shift of focus on Rin was the reason why the ratings never hit off. All the Korean comments were about Won in the beginning.
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outofthisworld
September 15, 2017 at 5:18 AM
" I honestly think the shift of focus on Rin was the reason why the ratings never hit off."
I don't think there was a shift of focus on Rin right from the start. I didn't pay much attention to the screen time but I think all three had their fair share.
The ratings didn't hit off because:
1. This is a youth saeguk which can be a hit like MDBC or a miss like Hwarang.
2. It is not headlined by popular actors who can guarantee a baseline rating of at least low two digits.
3. Idol actors are not a guarantee of good ratings and can in fact be a reason for less than warm reception. I've read somewhere that this drama is headed by 3 idol actors.
I read a comment on some streaming website that TKL's lackluster ratings is because Im Si Wan is not charismatic enough to pull in the numbers. I wrote about this weeks ago when I started this drama because I love Si Wan's portrayal of Won and was indignant of that comment. I can only conclude there are people who still consider Si Wan as an idol actor despite him having already established himself as a bona fide one.
Linda Palapala
September 15, 2017 at 8:13 AM
I thought the ratings were lower because the first few episodes were kind of light and fluffy. Plus it seems ratings also have to do with timing, when shows start airing, if there's another drama at the same time that people are already watching.
Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 11:54 PM
There are people who hate Won?? I hope most people are fascinated by his character.
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miselpo
September 15, 2017 at 12:32 AM
I don't hate him. I'm perplexed by his character because the show doesn't dare to go all out making him the anti-hero like in 7DQ and Lookout. Well I can't call it fascinating. Im Si-wan is subtle as Won but he maybe looks better in modern dramas since his face and voice is not saeguk type. Like Ji Soo, Nam Joo-hyuk and Baekyun in Scarlet Heart sorry but I just can't with their faces. They are handsome and all just not in saeguk.
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outofthisworld
September 15, 2017 at 1:01 AM
I don't think Won is hated here excepted for a few comments which get hardly any upvotes.
I think Won is a fascinating character and a tragic one too especially if he ends up alone. The novel has him do worse things but the drama has presented a kinder Won. Don't take my word for it though because it was just a synopsis and a translated one with no reference for accuracy or authenticity.
Whenever I watch saeguks or Chinese period dramas, I always think it's a misfortune to be born a prince. Won's dysfunctional family and upbringing made his circumstances much worse. He could have turn out deranged. Having Rin as a friend helped tremendously, it allowed him to be himself, to be ordinary and to be happy.
I've read comments that Won is not fit to be a king. I think Won doesn't even want to be one. His life is miserable exactly because he is the Crown Prince, the next in line to succeed the king. His mother never lets him forget about the throne, his father sees him as a threat and he certainly doesn't have the popularity vote by virtue of his half-blood - something out of his control. Yet at the same time, he cannot simply opt out of the game because it's a matter of life and death, not just the throne.
When San enters his life, he found a new meaning. He might be obsessive and creepy even but I still can't blame him. They say love makes people do crazy things so I'll just take it as that. If Won or Rin does anything less, fighting over their love, I would have no respect for their feelings.
So Won can be in denial, he can hope against hope that San will forget about Rin and I will not hold it against him.
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Linda Palapala
September 15, 2017 at 7:45 AM
This is why I like this drama - so many comments and thoughts about the characters complexities. It isn't just ISW's acting ability that show his complexity, but the people who surround him add to that complexity: we get background of his father, his mother, we're even given info from Rin's dad about him and Rin's own thoughts about Won. Even the "bad" guys give us information that go to his personality. So in that way Won really is the main character because we're given so much info from others. We really haven't been given much info from others about Rin, other than he's a good guy, kind, serious and upright. We know nothing about his mother either. He was compared to his father once, and that's about it. So it isn't just the acting.
winter
September 15, 2017 at 9:14 AM
This, second all of this so much! I'd like to upvote at least 10 times :D
outofthisworld
September 14, 2017 at 10:13 PM
Did anyone say Im Si Wan is inferior to Hong Jong Hyun?
I started this show for Si Wan because I dislike Yoona and HJH in K2 and Moon Lovers respectively. Now, I am absolutely smitten by HJH and Rin. But that does not mean Si Wan is worse than HJH.
Won is written as a character who was fun to begin with but ends up not more flawed and less likable. Im Si Wan is doing an awesome job playing Won. I like Si Wan, I understand Won but I don't love him. Must it be mutually exclusive?
Rin is written as a character who is as perfect as can be but he can also be boring especially when you compare it to Won. Because he's Mr Nice Guy who isn't expressive, in a hands of a lesser actor, he would be as charming as a cardboard.
Won is a complex character and Si Wan is knocking it out of the park, bringing in the layers and making me sympathetic towards Won despite his flaws.
That is not to say Rin is an easier role to play. Sometimes a simple or inscrutable character can be even more challenging and this is the case here.
I never expected Hong Jong Hyun to surprise and delight me with his acting. I think he's perfectly cast as Rin. The only thing is I just haven't reach the stage where I think Hong Jong Hyun can play any character whereas I think Si Wan could be more versatile.
I think by and large Beanies are quite objective about Won and sympathetic even. We just don't reward characters with their love interest based on merit.
It's never about :
Won deserves San because
1. He is all alone in the world
2. Rin betrayed him
3. He sacrificed so much for Rin and/or San.
4. He's the male lead
5. He loves San
6. He is played by Im Si Wan.
Neither is it about
Rin deserves San because:
1. He is selfless.
2. He is the perfect guy, noble and gallant.
3. He looks nice in his glorious mane and beautiful robes.
4. He's the second lead and SL need to win once in a while!
5. He loves San.
6. He is played by Hong Jong Hyun.
Why is Rin blamed for falling in love with San? Is he not human? If you cut him, does he not bleed?
Rin himself feels guilty about falling in love with San because firstly, San is the woman his master loves and secondly because Won is Rin's beloved friend. Rin can go and blame himself for all I care but we can't blame him. Neither should Won blame Rin unless Won only thinks of Rin as his servant and not as a friend.
A friend can blame himself for loving his friend's woman but he cannot blame his friend for loving the same woman he loves.
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dani
September 15, 2017 at 2:42 AM
Your comment is definitely out of this world! No pun intended LOL. I just wish people can watch this drama with the same view above. Wouldn't that be great? But yes, everyone has their own opinion. But it's great to read how you are able to put my thoughts into words as I am not very good in explaining.
Thank you.
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Chandler
September 15, 2017 at 6:08 AM
Exactly! In my opinion, this is the perspective that the writer, PD, and actors have been going for all along and it's so much more enjoyable watching it like this.
I've found the comments for this show to be super interesting to follow as there seems to be such a mix of those projecting their expectations for dramas onto it and those certain that it's been doing something different all along and sticking around for that. Because of this, some viewers (even me, lol) are becoming nervous about the show trolling us/pulling a Reply 1988, when really a lot of that comes from outside influence and expectation. It really helps to have a comment like the one from @outofthisworld, since it nails perfectly so much of why I have faith in this show and characters to bring us to a satisfying, yet complex and refreshing resolution.
I have to admit, annoying plotlines like Bi-yeon and the snake assassin sometimes have me second-guessing the greatness of this show, but luckily everything involving the main trio and the Queen still gets me good.
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Linda Palapala
September 15, 2017 at 9:52 AM
Have you ever noticed in kdramas the 2nd lead is usually Mr. Nice Guy, but the girl falls for the "jerk" who gradually changes. This drama has Rin as the Nice Guy and Won with the personality flaws. But it's really late in the game if he changes and she falls for him. Besides, who says she gets to choose anyway?
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27 Nat
September 14, 2017 at 12:05 PM
I find it interesting that a lot of comments mention about the friendship between the three as being prominent and different for a drama. Honestly the only friendship I have been able to see is the bond that exists between Rin and Won - and I've already mentioned how I feel about that relationship.
I was never fully sold on the 'friendship' between all three of them because (1) Won never saw San as a friend. From the moment he met her again and he realized who she was his thoughts were about 'owning' her and not at all platonic. (2) Rin I think went from seeing her as 'belonging' to his best friend, to having feelings for her himself. Maybe in a small space of time he considered her a friend.
San is the only one who has had feelings of just friendship for both men. From her point of view it is a novel concept and it was nice to see her relationship with them. But for me, the romance (and the feelings of the two men in question) has been in the way of me viewing their relationship as a beautiful friendship.
In some ways I wish Rin never fell in love with San and just loved her as a friend and protected her as Won's best friend, and that San really loved Won. The story could have been just as awesome, albeit more focused on the politics of things. I wouldn't mind though, the plot outside the love triangle in this is really interesting in theory, the execution could have been better if all our villains were as interesting as Princess Woonsung.
Look at me, rewriting the drama again...haha
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 1:03 PM
As I said above, I'm re watching and it's obvious from the beginning (before Won falls for San) that he simply finds her fascinating, as if it's the first girl he ever had contact with, and considers her almost like a new toy that he can throw away when he gets bored. He says as much. Of course, that's before he really falls for her. You're right about San wanting to be just friends at the beginning and wanting to be "one of the guys", that just isn't going to ever happen with an attractive girl and two males wanting her. Rin obviously was attracted to her from the beginning but with reservation. He didn't want to fall for her, example when he wanted to go as a tribute to Yuan because his heart was breaking, and for the longest time he denied himself and his feelings. I think San only noticed Rin as a man when he spoke to her of making memories. That's also when Won first noticed their attraction to each other. Right after that, Won told Rin to ask her to the ribbon thing and said he trusted Rin, with a look that said you'd better not like my woman. It only just now occurred to me it wasn't really a warning to Rin, but Won's insecurity coming out. What attracts me to this drama (besides HJH which is the only reason I started it) is not the plot really but the conversations between all of the characters. That's what is most interesting. I agree with you that Rin is her protector as he has been Won's protector, but you can't protect everyone all the time because then they never mature and can take care of themselves. The plot is interesting in that it's about the prejudice against one who wasn't a pure race, and they had a point about being afraid if Won became King he would simply hand over Goryeo to Yuan. That would be a big fear. However, Song In's character was written quite poorly and standard cliche for a bad guy.
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Yone
September 14, 2017 at 1:22 PM
San for me was never anything more than a plot device to drive a wedge between the Won/Rin friendship. I never understood what people meant by her having potential in the first half of the show. From the first episode on when she showed up all that happened was her being in constant danger and needing rescue from one of the guys. If not she was the subject of their monologues about how much they loved her. The guys never saw her as a friend. The show told us that both loved her since they were children. The only friendship there was is Won/Rin. The story is about how their love for San destroyed their friendship.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 2:29 PM
I think the meaning about San having potential is that she did make the decision for her life.
When everything from the boys becomes bad, she tries to remove herself. When she becomes an obstacle, she would rather choose their friendship.
The core reason for the trouble she got is mostly because of both of the guy but she managed to do what best.
The 1st time she gets captured by Jeon, she confidently honest then realised that she better give up the revenge.
The 2nd time is she agreed to the marriage and this has nothing to do with the boys, she wants to save his father but still don't let Jeon got hold on him [by having the knife hiding].
The 3rd time when she wants to be honest to Won's wedding, she ask him to choose what is supposed to be.
San is actively trying to help herself and her family, her dad and the assets they had.
San is describe as good at fighting and she showed her action many times. She didn't back down and have time to help by kicking people, tell the eunuch to find help, agree to the teacher suggestion and giving up her rice sack to Won.
More than the guy, it's San tragedy to meet them cause San as herself never originally want to be with either of them and constantly want to choose a path for herself without the guys. This part is what I think many people adore her.
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Yone
September 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM
I get what you mean but ultimately these little moments of independence mean nothing in big terms when it comes to moving the plot forward.
When Jeon captured her it was Rin who barged in to save her and Won used his choice on her.
The forced marriage ripped her off any agency. Song In was blackmailing her into it. Rin ran around trying to save her and Won put an end to the marriage plans.
You could say asking Won to choose Dan was the only relevant thing she did for the plot.
Otherwise she is really passive and just let things happen to her. I really hope she ends up alone. Choosing this late has brought this mess.
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xiao jingyan
September 14, 2017 at 3:55 PM
That's when we differ, she is not passive for me because she doesn't cause all of those things.
She is the collateral damage from the start and she is active in choosing the path that she wants.
When Jeon captured her, she knows nothing but she is being honest, learns from the mistake and try to move on. That's her being active.
Forced married in that era is common at it's the fault of biyeon, her being active is taken the responsibility but also consider her position [having the memories and preparing the knife to protect herself]
She doesn't let things happen as she saw it from miles away. She couldn't even predict half of the things that happen to her because she doesn't know who is Won and Rin.
When she knew the implication of her being there, she actively tries to remove herself as she doesn't want to be in that situation.
If you see San as a person, there is no Rin and Won in her life and she wants it to stay the same as the beginning but the sequence of events capture her in the moment.
If Won had let her go after Jeon captured her and all is going after her plan, none of the things are happening either.
You could say that Won desired to not let her go by using his power to trap her is what included her in this mess.
San as her own character never wants to be involved in the palace shenanigans.
Nat
September 14, 2017 at 5:17 PM
I'm one of those who thinks that she was more than a plot device for the first half. I still think that now. It's only recently I feel that she is not really being made to have a purpose beyond being Won's obsession and the foil for the boy's friendship. In the beginning San had a very engaging story that just happened to overlap with Won and Rin's story when they all met, and then we see how their fates are intertwined with what happened to her mother. Up until the point where she decided to leave the city after giving up on her revenge she was an interesting character with her own purpose.
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Linda Palapala
September 14, 2017 at 5:56 PM
I've noticed a lot of kdramas start out with the female being a strong independent character and then when the "hero" has to shine, the girl takes a back seat and needs to be rescued. Is that a Disney syndrome?
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Kagura
September 15, 2017 at 2:40 AM
Dude, you're forgetting that both Won and Rin contributes to San's mother death and the start of this mess. If her mother didn't die first of all, none of this would happen.
Tbh, I don't understand when people say they pity WonRin but not San. Her family including her are victims just like WonRin to the throne mess.
And she are always trying to escape from this two friends. For example, just before her father dies, she wants to go somewhere far with his father but Won refuse her idea strongly even mentioning her mother. I don't blame him tho.
And please don't forget that, all she wanted from both of the guys was FRIENDSHIP from the beginning. It never once occur to her that she'll go beyond that relationship until they 'court' her. Which is I understand from her perspective to not know how to react as she grew up on a mountain.
If you watch Goryeo dramas. I definitely can say that San is a rare female character ever existed. She doesn't need guys to fight and is always ready to save the friendship between two men. It is proved many times.
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Kagura
September 15, 2017 at 2:44 AM
*sageuk dramas
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Kagura
September 15, 2017 at 4:35 AM
Pardon my grammar. I was typing on the phone. Lol
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28 PakalanaPikake
September 14, 2017 at 8:05 PM
Thanks for your recap and comments, murasakimi!
Now that Won is going off the deep end, I can't help but think of "Tainted Love" by Soft Cell. That could be Rin singing.
The original 1964-65 version by Gloria Jones, however, is even more apropos for San:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKe2j9Wjh4
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29 Kendi
September 15, 2017 at 2:19 AM
I honestly didn't watch this drama anymore even skipped some recaps...but the story of Princess Wonsung got me interested again. What episode is her backstory?
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Linda Palapala
September 15, 2017 at 8:16 AM
There are several episodes with her backstory, from different character's perspectives. I think the first backstory is actually from Rin's father to Rin, either first episode or the second. The queen herself gives San her own perspective but I can't remember which episodes any of these are actuallyl in.
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Kendi
September 15, 2017 at 4:44 PM
Thank you Linda!
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30 dani
September 15, 2017 at 2:46 AM
Anyone loving the OST for this drama? We have eight songs at the moment, if I am not mistaken, and I love all of them. I especially love Miss You by Oliver. I tried to search for him but nothing came out. While waiting for the new episodes, I keep on listening to the OST and the more I do that, the more I love it. <3
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31 Kagura
September 15, 2017 at 2:57 AM
People need to stop being biased with their comments tbh. If you enjoy the drama and not fall too hard on bromance or romance(being obsessed), you'll get different perspectives and much rational opinions. The trio's characters have the depth that I don't know how to explain with words. In addition, their acting skills make everything more complex. The facial expressions!
I had no expectation for hjh and yoona before starting this drama. But they surprise me a lot. Idg people who say they are stiff and give blank face. Where??!!! Are we watching the same drama?? The trio give me so many tears. I always cry when they cry.
Siwan on the other hand is so fine. Damn boi, you're so gooddd.
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Dino=Rex
September 15, 2017 at 5:16 AM
I don't blame people for feeling like this. The show promoted the love triangle, the Rin/Won bromance and Im Siwan very hard. Everybody knew this show was bromance and romance focused so telling people to not be when the show itself is making it the central point is kinda ridiculous in my opinion.
The writer is to blame. She made it mostly about romance by making San a damsel in distress always needing saving and being indecisive by not making clear how she really feels with the boys. The boys forgot about their loyalty and friendship towards each other for San. And try to get her to stay by their side. The characters were multi dimensional in the beginning but right now are really one track minded because of romance. Thankfully Princess Wonsung's death changed that because Won now has to snap out of his romantic obsession with San to mourn his mother. Rin finally can realize that he needs to stop acting up and start explaining things before it gets worse. Well San probably won't change and will stay the playball for the boys desires.
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32 LadySan
September 15, 2017 at 5:34 AM
The only thing I hope for this drama is that Won, Rin and San are happy like they were before. Everything Rin does is for Won's sake, everyone whose watched the latest episodes should know. If it ends as an open ending I will be mad haha!
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33 Linda Palapala
September 15, 2017 at 1:22 PM
I was telling a friend about this drama and she said - It's Camelot. They're going to die..."
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