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Open Thread #432

 
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Have heaps to comment re. Remember ep 13 & 14 but will wait for recaps to be up to comment there and avoid potential spoilers here but just in general...

The positives about ep 13 & 14: (a) more scenes with the two smexy men of Remember - hot judge Seok Gyu and my favourite with his saturi-drawl Park Dong Ho; (b) better material for Park Min Young to showcase her acting chops; (c) more progress in the story - threats & revelations made, gauntlets thrown etc.

On the flipside: As many beanies have commented, some inconsistencies/'loose' writing as well as the many flashbacks & product placements [buy a bag anyone?].

Still enjoying the drama though despite some flaws.

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Hello.

the most important news is we are melting. I am thinking of getting a boat to go to work. It was really weird, one day -21, the next morning - +4!!! and bang! snow falling from the roofs in large amounts breaks cars and heads. it was very dangerous a couple of days.

and then, my finger got stuck between a collapsible tables´ legs and pretty much crushed. I went to ER and gave them a middle finger, literally. but at least it is a left hand, which is lucky, cause I have to draw some 18 pictures. I managed to get an idea of making postcards of my neighborhood and posted a few sketches in Facebook and got 700 likes in a day. It was crazy. People started ordering postcards! man! just one picture!

Dramas:

I found the Reply 1988: Behind special with full English subs, here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ogbip_eng-sub-160102-reply-1988-behind-special_fun

I really miss the whole bunch.

havent had time for dramas cause I have been drawing postcards.
ah yes, except Neighborhood Hero. I wish people would stop their endless loop of "I will not be watching, but I watched and only came here to I have to say I can´t watch. " if you are not watching, fine, you don´t need to take part in a drama discussion just to say how you cannot possibly.
for me the dramas´ flaw is more in the pacing and editing. with fight scenes and stuff, the editing and tempo could be more fluent. It seems slightly dragging already in the first two episodes. It might get better though... also, with the plain camera work, there really isn´t much aura of mystery and suspense. the old ajussi bar owner is interesting and the setup of a bar for ex spies to gather. I bet the japanese would make one hell of a drama with that...wait... didnt they already with Okitegami Kyoko? If this was a little more pointy, a little more, you know... intense?
anyway, I am just losing it over Gwis´ makeover. LOL it is just so funny how that wide-eyed narcoleptic hoodlum could have been the shakespearian vampire. ahhaha I am so amused at that.

see now, you can keep drama discussion and other matters separate, right?

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Ouch about your hand. Hope it heals quickly!

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oh no about finger :( hope for a fast recovery.
I fell talking a walk on one morning, and whole fingernail came out(well,skin was peeled off so). It was pinky finger of my left hand and ever after one whole year, it is not totally healed.

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I went to DB's Neighborhood Hero post to read about people's first impression about that drama a couple days ago. But the discussion is so volatile, I back out fast. So it's really nice to read your comment about the drama itself. My drama plate is quite full atm so I'm still undecided whether to watch it or not.

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Same I'm watching quite a lot of dramas atm but people keep raving about lee soo hyuk in his previous dramas and I've never seen him in anything so maybe this will be a first. I quite lile yuri as well so mau give it a try

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It's an interesting drama. So far the best thing is the atmosphere--I'm surprised at how well Kwak Jung-hwan (the PD) does camp. It's the first drama I've honestly laughed at in a very long time, and that mostly comes down to his willingness to make fun of himself and subvert expectations in the most awkward ways possible. The acting is not great except for a couple of the old-timers and makes things fall apart the few times KJH does take things seriously, but on the other hand the script seems pretty quirky so far, and actually works with KJH's vision.

tl;dr. It's more uneven than Signal, the other thriller-ish show that started this week, but personally I think it's more interesting.

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Wish you a speedy recovery of your finger.

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redfox -

So sorry to hear about your finger! That is certainly very painful. I hope it heals soon!

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redfox ~

Sorry to hear about your finger.

Many years ago, my middle finger, L hand, 1st digit (distal phalange), was smashed flat as a pancake. The joint escaped impact, so the finger works fine, just a bit wider at that end.

Hope your recovery goes well.

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"Shakespearian vampire" Gwi was the best.

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Heal that hand quickly!

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I wouldn't mind hurting my toes if someone can princess-carry me across a football field. As long as he uses lip balm, unlike someone who also didn't want to wear a pink shirt.

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Love your sense of humour :)
That someone has to be as handsome as PBG, or else it is really not worth hurting your toes.

Redfox, hope your finger can recover quickly. Your postcards must be awesome to have 700 likes in a day, great job!

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I agree with your points on Neighborhood Hero. The mix of spy thriller and comedy needs some tweaking.
Lee Soo Hyuk playing complete opposite of all his other character types is interesting. He is believable as dumb and a bit inept. I have not seen the sexy carpenter in Valid Love yet.

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oh did you hear Bogummy called Hyeri from Namibia to say he was doing well. Hyeri said "Oh, My Husband called me from Africa!" kekeke. Other guys also called her though

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Hello beanies :-D

-Signal: What a solid premiere, suspenseful and gripping with a bit of dry humor. I think we are in for a convoluted time-manipulation thriller.

-Cheese in the Trap: I'm happy that this show venture outside comfort zone and give us a romcom hero whom we are wary to root for. And also thumbs up for acknowledging the awkwardness of new couple (this is the first time I feel a kdrama couple could pass as a real-life couple).

-One More Happy Ending: Cute and also thoughtful. I love the way they intercept the humor with a heartfelt conversation or vice versa. And the fast pace is definitely helping.

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I'm watching these three too, enjoying them a lot.

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speaking of cheese trap i was rewatching all episodes(where is monday) and the seol drunk scene in-ho asked that :jung doesn't feel sorry for him and jung asked then you... in-ho just left the conversation.. . . jung never wrongs people.. . he just gives back what they give, so even if jung broke in-ho's hand(which is really wrong), in-ho must have wronged jung ... in flash back in-ho was just a spoiled brat so its possible... right

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I like the great depiction of the awkwardness but I really dislike people (in dramas and in real life) who have invisible chalk boards above their friends' heads where they keep a tally of pros and cons, weighing you in the balance and ready to cross you off. Why should anyone endure that kind of thing...in the hope that some person will "grow"? That is the problem with this show. It depicts the life of those who always have to give some confusing person the benefit of the doubt. And if the guy turns out to be "really a good person underneath" it's gonna irk me MAJORLY. I hate being devastated and committing myself to being devastated by people on the off-chance that he/she is or will turn out to be a "good person." In real life, one gets one's soul trampled in situations like this.

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Signal
Gave it a try. It feels very strongly like "Sign" to me (including the "stupid overacting genius lead"). The aspect ratio meddling gives me a headache; cool idea, but at least for me, the constant irritation about it is not worth it.
I was also very confused about the "statue of limitations" countdown, because I was convinced that Korea has a "discovery rule": The statue of limitations "clock" only starts counting once a crime is discovered. Since they just found the body of the supposed kidnapper, there'd be no time limit at all. For some reason everyone including the killer was very sure about the countdown, and was also very wrong at the same time (how did the killer not know when she killed this guy?). Unfortunately, I've watched "Sign", and I know the bag of tricks that are used here. When the only source of suspense is some illogical vagueness, I tend to get bored.

One More Happy Ending
Very much a Korean "Sex and the City". Four one-dimensional, shallow women trying to make Mr. Perfect happen (here: trying to get a trophy husband). It's a great setup for a screwball or villain protagonist comedy, but unfortunately, the comic aspect has been neglected in the recent episodes. I really wish they would embrace the unique character setup of their own show a little bit more.

Madame Antoine
Let's ignore the issue where the show butchers psychology even worse than "IOIL" did with psychiatry or every med K-drama ever does to medicine.
And let's also ignore the issue that our lead character is an irresponsible unprofessional quack. Not to mention our male lead ...
If we ignore all that, then the show is ... pretty bland. Huh.

Cheese in the Trap
Now we're talking! The first episodes were a little bit hasty when establishing the characters, but now that we get a little bit less condensed scenes, things sure are starting to get interesting.

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Madame Antoine: This sounded somewhat entertaining, so I gave it a shot. And then I remembered why I have had such a long dry spell with k-dramas. It is not just that they get thing so very wrong, but that they could get most of it right just by using Google.

ATM, Signal is the only one that I will probably make it past ep2 on of the current dramas.

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Hi Jon - perhaps this will help: the countdown is for the murder of the little girl. Not the supposed kidnapper.

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Well, that part I got, of course. But the emotional wasn't there because
(a) it doesn't really matter whether the killer gets charged with one murder or two from the perspective of the murder hunt
(b) the mourning mother is a token, I know literally nothing at all about her apart from her being a mourning mother; when she complains about the killer not being charged with the other murder, I rolled my eyes (but maybe I'm too coldhearted)
(c) we learn that they don't even know when the girl was killed anyway

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hey come on! The mom is supposed to be a token. Speaking as a Black person, I've seen some great good come from tokenism. Symbols -- esp symbols of injustice and loss-- are epic icons in human individual and communal history. No doubt for culture as well.. IMAGE has done more to change law and culture than anything else in this image-centric century. The mom is a visual soundbyte which we can pour our understanding of loss, injustice, legal incompetence, and sorrow into. She worked for me. And I'm very cynical about empty icons.

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Jon,
You One More Happy Ending assessment is spot on. I never did like Sex in the City, so that's probably why this show bugs me. It is so formulaic, I keep hoping for an unexpected plot twist. One more week for me to give it a chance.

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re: Signal, I haven't watched Sign but I certainly did feel like Lee Je-hoon was laying it on a little thick in those first couple of episodes (I'm now gladder than ever that Im Shi-wan ended up with the lead role in Misaeng). It seems good so far, but certainly nowhere near the league of some of the shows I've heard it being compared to - but as long as it stays better than Gap-dong, it'll be fine.

As for the statute of limitations rule, I'm not surprised but I've long since given up on the idea of kdramas having any degree of verisimilitude when it comes to legal matters.

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As for the statute of limitations rule, I’m not surprised but I’ve long since given up on the idea of kdramas having any degree of verisimilitude when it comes to legal matters.

... or any others (I'm looking at you, Madame Antoine).

Well, the writer of "Signal" often chooses to dismiss more realistic plot progression for a better story, but at least she often actually knows what she is writing about. Her depiction of police work, law, applied science and so on is mostly just a dramatised and simplified version of reality instead of the clueless ass-pull that most other writers prefer.

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It's sad, because this is probably the worst performance from Lee Je-hoon I've seen, and this might be his best drama in the end. It's sort of like post-Painter of the Wind Moon Geun-young and The Village. He was very good in Secret Door (which admittedly was much better than Signal before it fell apart in the second half) and I went into Fashion King for the lulz and then started actually rooting for his character because not only he was the one person in the entire thing doing any acting, he was actually pretty good.

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Lee Je-hoon is a great actor but I'm not feeling him in Signal yet. It's both his acting and his character.
I'd still take him over Im Shi-wan any day to be honest and that's based on their past projects (movies and dramas). Some it were pretty crappy but I still remember who he was in it. (Maybe I'm crushing on him a little too much lol).

I waited for Signal and now that it's here I don't know what to think of it yet. I'd say it's good because it's not bad and I'd love it if it's decent because I'm afraid it won't be as good as I want it to be. (I know that makes no sense)

Well, there are 14 more episodes to go and I'm crossing my fingers and toes that he'll get into the groove and be a bit more convincing.

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No, it makes perfect sense to me! That's pretty much how I feel about it too lol. I have to say, though, I actually prefer Neighborhood Hero after the first week. Even though its cast is so bleh except for the veterans and I couldn't even stand Park Si-hoo's face pre-scandal....major Kwak Jung-hwan fangirl here. He's still so awesome when he's being campy lol.

I agree, I'd take Lee Je-hoon over Im Si-wan, too. He's a bit lacking here but he's been pretty consistently good throughout his career.

I keep wanting to blame his character--he has to go out on a limb and make everything seem like it's a huge deal all the time, while Kim Hye-soo gets to react to him and play it cool (though she's super good at that). But he could tone it down, so maybe I'm just making excuses lol.

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I'm surprised at all the strong criticisms that Lee Je Hoon is receiving. I've seen Bleak Night (still his strongest work) and Architecture 101 (both films before his military service) and he can definitely be natural, subtle and intense w/o overacting.

I watched Secret Door (which I stopped halfway b/c of the writing/story) and am watching Signal and have noticed how his acting has changed (post military). I can understand why people say he's 'overacting', but it's more his facial movement (particularly his mouth) that's exaggerated and can definitely be toned down (which the director should've called out IMHO). That aside, the way he interprets his Signal character and delivers his lines are spot on, and I'm enjoying his performance.

However, based on his acting in Bleak Night, I would've loved to see him in Misaeng, but this in no way means I question ISW's credibility as Jang Geu-Rae. Yes, ISW is great in it; I've seen the drama and there's no question that he suits the role very well. But again, I'm just curious as to how LJH would've played JGR. But I believe both of these feelings (happy that ISW took the role--regretful that LJH didn't) can peacefully co-exist.

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Wow, I never really thought of it like that, but looking back, I think you might be right about the facial movement thing. Next episode I'll have to take a closer look (unless he's toned it down already lol).

Yeah, Secret Door...the writing was so uneven. The first five episodes or so were great but I think the writing was on the wall from the beginning. The plotting was very bad in the second half, but ultimately I just hated the way they portrayed Sado vs. Yeongjo. Having read it myself, I understand that Lady Hyegyung's memoir isn't exactly a reliable historical text, but I can't stand it when dramas whitewash controversial figures and make others into the bad guy, as opposed to trying to understand the nuances of situation...which is exactly what Secret Door did with Sado and Yeongjo. Eight Days is still my go-to Sado drama, and really it's a Jeongjo drama lol.

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Lol I'm wondering if it's all the yelling they have to do in the military that has made his exaggerated facial movements involuntary now. Yes, he did it once or twice in episode 3, and I also noticed the same thing in Secret Door. He's really talented and most effective when he's nuanced yet intense, so I hope he realizes it soon and tones it down.

Yes, Secret Door was a big disappointment, so I'll have to check out Eight Days. Thanks!

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I think the military is a pretty solid explanation. I forgot episode 3 aired already--I'll keep my eye on him this time lol.

Yeah, Eight Days is great, and it's only 10 episodes! I think the episodes might be 40-50 minutes too. It's mainly about Jeongjo going to visit his father's tomb and all his enemies trying to assassinate him on the way, but it deals with his parents as well. It manages to walk the line between Sado being victimized by political factionalism and Sado being dangerous and out of control pretty well, and it actually confronts the hypocrisies that drove me nuts when I was reading Lady Hyegyung's Memoirs (a lot of the Sado scenes are pretty much directly lifted from the text).

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Don't get me wrong, Lee Je-hoon was fantastic pre-military, and I will forever be annoyed that Suzy was the one who rode off to star status off his workin Architecture 101.

But post-military, the change in his acting (so I'm not the only person who noticed!) has me convinced he would never have been the right actor to play Jang Geu-rae. That character was someone who kept his thoughts to himself but let only flickers of thought or emotion through in most situations.... and whatever the change in Lee Je-hoon's acting is a result of, he really wouldn't have suited that role immediately post-military.

Now I'm starting to wonder if I should be worried about Song Joong-ki....

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@pogo. Noooooooo don't even say that. :(

If SJK is bad in Descendants of the Sun, I will choose to blame Kim Eun-sook and move on. I wish he had chosen a cooler project but at least this way I have an excuse for him, just in case.

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@juniper - Song Joong-ki is a master of microexpressions, I doubt even the military can mess him up (and so many actors come back better than ever, so I don't think we have much to fear).

But like you, if things mess up in Descendants, I shall blame KES as a writer. From what I've seen in the teasers, there's no cause for us to worry on the acting front.

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@pogo
You sound so certain that LJH wouldn't have been a good fit for Misaeng post-military, but JGR's character is quiet and introspect, so an actor of LJH's calibre would've played it right w/ physical nuances and voice over. An actor is supposed to change his acting (i.e. voice/tone, physical stature, gestures, etc.) based on the character and overall story. However, his character in Signal and Secret Door are so different, but regardless, when he's not exaggerating his mouth, the nuance in his acting is still there, so I can definitely still see him pull of JGR. I mean, JGR wasn't yelling at any point (that I can recall) in Misaeng. :-)

Lol, I don't think SJK will have that problem bc his lips are not as full as LJH's (Can you tell I've analyzed LJH's acting to the minute detail?), which makes it noticeable and distracting when he lays it on thick w/ the mouth movement. That's the only big difference I've noticed in LJH's acting post-military, so I just want the director to notice it too and call it out. Besides that, I'm liking his performance in Signal.

@juniper
You seem to know a lot about sageuks and history. I only come on Open Thread once in awhile, and I'm sure this topic has been discussed, but I'd like to hear your suggestion regarding which sageuks are good and historically accurate.

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@pogo
Yes, SJK is quite good at microexpressions, but so is LJH so I'm rather disappointed at the exaggerated mouth movement, which is not necessary at all.

I can't get behind KES's work and can never finish her dramas.

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@News. I wouldn't say I know a lot about sageuk and Korean history--I'm just really interested in them lol. One feeds into the other imo--the more historically accurate and period aware sageuk tend to be, the better the human drama is, too--when we get to see the past filtered through human experience in a way that feels both believable and accessible it's pretty amazing, especially when you're looking at times as brutal and hopeless as Joseon, Goryeo, etc. If a sageuk doesn't understand history, how can it possibly understand the people its characters would have been?

Sorry, I'm rambling. As for recs? I tend to go by directors and writers. Let's see off the top of my head...

-Anything Jung Ha-yeon has written--Shin Don is my favorite drama of all time, Cruel Palace is great especially if you're looking for a feminist critique of Joseon social structure, and Queen Insoo is supposed to be super amazing (and the fact that I can even say that its subs are in progress is a miracle in itself lol)

-Kwak Jung-hwan. Conspiracy in the Court is in the debate for best sageuk of all time for a lot of people (up there with Shin Don), and although opinions are more mixed on that one, I quite enjoyed Chuno--it's not a political sageuk but there's a lot to be said for its treatment of slavery imo

-Kim Won-seok, the guy who wrote Eight Days. I've only seen bits of it so far but I've read that Im Kkeok Jung is one of the best sageuk of all time.

And although his dramas are basically fictionalized stories of personal success with a period backdrop, some of Lee Byung-hoon's older sageuk are pretty great--Sangdo is one of my very favorites (and I think it has some historical value--it's basically Joseon merchant ethics 101 lol), and Heo Joon is pretty good as well. Just stay far, far away from Dae Jang Geum and everything that came after lol.

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@pogo

I'm banking on Song Joong-ki to make it as one of Chungmuro's go to actors someday, like Ha Jung Woo, Song Kang Ho etc. He is still young so I hope he will make it. Choi Min Shik and Han Suk-Gyu are in their (50s), Park Geun-hyung (70s), Kim Young-Cheol (60s) etc. They are getting old and will retire at some point. We need young talents to replacement them but not many of them are doing movies like YAI.

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frankly, I find it hard to visualise post-military LJH as Jang Geu-rae - yes, he is talented and beloved here, but seeing him not quite land right in the early episodes of Signal (it's not just his mouth, it's the voice too), I'm not as certain as you that he could have got it as spot-on as Im Shi-wan did from his first scene.

and Song Joong-ki does have pretty full lips himself, though I hope you're wrong about the yelling affliction being endemic in post-military actors. KES is a maddening writer but usually creates side characters far more interesting than her leads, so I'll at least stay for Kim Ji-won, if nothing else.

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@Kiara - I agree, of the entire 30 and under generation of younger stars, Yoo Ah-in and Song Joong-ki are the ones I see with the most potential to be true actors and not just stars, if you get what I mean. Way too many of the currently popular under-30 crowd are coasting on popularity/image, and I really hope YAI and SJK don't fall into that trap.

(the fact that he is doing a KES drama alone makes me nervous, but I'll allow this as a one-off 'I'm back from the military' statement..... I mean, he and Lee Min-ho are certainly not in the same class as actors). I'm not that worried about Yoo Ah-in, since he doesn't seem too bothered about status issues like always doing lead roles or always playing likable/heroic characters (Thread of Lies, Veteran).

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@juniper
I like your analysis of historically accurate sageuks (or any history) and the human experience, and it's good to see someone find value in it. Because we didn't live during that time, it certainly serves as a gateway, however small it is, into their lives and experiences. I'm actually quite interested in Mongolian history and Genghis Khan and hope to learn more about it.

I enjoyed both Chuno and Queen Seondeok even though they're not historically accurate (I haven't seen one!), so I'll have to find the time to check out your list. Eight Days is doable since it's only 10 episodes!

@pogo
I said "Lol I’m wondering if it’s all the yelling they have to do in the military that has made his exaggerated facial movements involuntary now", which translates as a half joking rhetorical and innocuous speculation about LJH only. I fail to see how that's the same as me making such a grand claim that it's a "yelling affliction" that's "endemic in post-military actors".

But OT serves as a dialogue of POVs so we can happily live in our own regarding LJH and JGR.

@Kiara
No doubt SJK will be an A-list actor in Chungmuro. But he's a notch above YAI, who tends to overact. I think YAI is a talented actor, but I don't necessarily like his acting style.

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@pogo
I will add that if I never saw LJH in Bleak Night, I would never say with conviction that he would make a good JGR. I do see where you're coming from since you made a clear distinction about his acting post-military.

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@News. I'm always glad to find another person who loved Chuno :) Maybe it's because expectations were so high when it aired, or people were watching it for different reasons than me (like the love story or something? idk lol), but I feel like a lot of people are pretty harsh on it.

I agree about Yoo Ah-in. I get that he's a good actor (or at least he's much better than most of his peers lol), but the more I see of him the more irritating I find him. He's often over-the-top, and no matter what character he's playing, he has the exact same shtick--it's hard to describe, but he has this certain way of making his voice shake and over enunciating every single line, and he's always. tilting. his. head....idk lol. He drove me nuts in Secret Love Affair.

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@juniper
I didn't realize people were harsh on Chuno, but I read comments only once in a while so maybe I missed it. For sure, the things I loved about it overshadowed its shortcomings. It really set a new standard for what sageuks can visually look like; the art direction, costume design and action choreography were simply amazing. It's definitely one of JH strongest work, besides Thank You. That role was tailored made for him.

Lol you basically described exactly how I feel about YAI, so I was just laughing and nodding yes while reading your description about his acting. I agree, he's better than his peers but I have a hard time watching his performance. Seriously, how can someone overact nuance? So it was hard to finish Secret Love Affair.

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@News. lol yes, overacting nuance--that is exactly the right phrase to describe YAI. I'm glad I'm not alone lol--with all the praise he's been receiving I was starting to feel like I was.

And yeah, JH in Chuno was honestly one of the best performances I've seen in a Kdrama. Most of the cast was amazing--Sung Dong-il, Lee Jong-hyuk, Gong Hyung-jin, Kim Eung-soo, Han Jung-soo...basically everyone except Oh Ji-ho lol.

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@juniper
Ah Lee Jong-hyuk, yes! He didn't even bare his chest, and he was still charismatic and sexy. The supporting cast was solid.

I'll have to find you again on OT to discuss all things films/dramas. It's amazing that so many ppl can view one scene and interpret it differently, which is insightful and interesting, but how awesome when someone sees it exactly the same!

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"As for the statute of limitations rule, I’m not surprised but I’ve long since given up on the idea of kdramas having any degree of verisimilitude when it comes to legal matters."

Or any respect for medical and legal confidentiality, or legal procedure.

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preach.

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Amen.

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I enjoyed "Sign" (but wth with the ending?), but signal is great. Loved ep 3 and 4.

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Love that Makes You Cry (Itsuka Kono Koi wo Omoidashite Kitto Naite Shimau)

Title is terrible but this drama is wonderful. Watched ep 1 (subbed) and ep 2 (unsubbed). Loving the two leads. Ren and Oto are so perfectly matched – such caring, sensitive individuals. I can’t wait for them to get together and gain the strength (to say no!) and happiness they so deserve. Because they are so alike, they’ll give and, for once, not be taken advantage of. They’ll be so good for each other. With the rest of the characters (the drama is supposed to focus on six individuals), we’ll still have to see – tbh, Ren & Oto’s story is all I need but some side stories with growth for those characters that are currently anything from selfish to annoying would be okay. Looking forward to how the drama will progress, given that it’s by the writer that has produced some of my most favourite jdramas. Kora Kengo is as wonderful as ever. First time seeing Arimura Kasumi in a (noticeable) role (don’t remember her from SPEC, Starman, Shitsuren Chocolatier and 11 Nin mo Iru!).

Rinsho Hanzai Gakusha Himura Hideo no Suiri

It’s just a detective/crime drama in serial format, but it’s solid. Himura is an intriguing character, and it’s fast-paced and thrilling so far.

Please Love the Useless Me

Fukada Kyoko seems to be making a career out of playing ultra-cute, über-naïve damsels-in-distress. Didn’t manage to last more than 20 minutes with this drama because her brainless character was unbearable. Also realised that Fukada's acting is really quite bad (the „I want meat“ scene! – playing over-the-top but that scene was supposed to contain a range of emotions and it was utterly one-note).

Mars

Pretty basic adaptation. Seems miscast – both leads. Rei didn’t need a pretty flower boy, it needed someone who mesmerises you the instant you set eyes on him. Also: short episodes for what is really quite complex source material (and, presumably it’ll only have 10-11 episodes, as J-dramas typically do). I’m already seeing how this is going to simplify things a lot. A pity – I know the manga (and the TW drama) are overly dramatic at times but I have a certain appreciation for this story as it tackles some serious and some very taboo topics in a mature way.

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One More Happy Ending

Dropped after ep. 3. It’s not funny to me, I’m just finding most characters obnoxious. Mimo most of all. No, friends aren’t the people that encourage you when you are totally cray-cray (yes, going through 4 guys in 48 hours and seeing each one as THE ONE is batshit crazy) but they are the people who tell you the hard truth when no one else will. I know I’m supposed to laugh, but I find the contrast in tones hard to reconcile: some things are obviously played for over-the-top comedy (I get it, even if I’m not laughing), but then they throw in totally realistic scenes and I just don’t see how I’m supposed to take this, e.g. In-Young isn’t playing funny & and In-young’s mom certainly isn’t either. (Pity she’s pregnant. Her bowing out of the wedding is a much more interesting story than the let’s-get-them-to-reconnect-because-we-can’t-have-a-single-mom-as-happy-ever-after trajectory I’m expecting now.) Also odd: Kyoung-Ho’s son so far seems to be a plot device. I know his kid is like 12 but how do you do drunken shenanigans all night long with a kid alone at home? Or randomly take off at 3 in the morning? Anyhow, not for me.

Only skip-watching Moorim School. All these totally flat side characters (teachers! students!). No subtlety in this drama, it’s like they have to hit you over the head with things. No, we did not need explanation for the lullaby. Su-nah playing it, Shi-woo sleeping peacefully and Shi-woo’s flashbacks with the same song make it clear enough that this song connects them (=siblings!). And: a potluck with a red carpet fancy dress fashion show? LOL. (Though Ariel looked very pretty. But the whole thing was still ridiculous.).

Waiting for Madame Antoine – will give it another episode though I’m very likely to drop this drama as well.

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One More Happy Ending

some things are obviously played for over-the-top comedy (I get it, even if I’m not laughing), but then they throw in totally realistic scenes and I just don’t see how I’m supposed to take this

Exactly. In contrast to you, I like over-the-top comedies (like "Marriage, Not Dating"), but the show-runners have to commit to them. When you create a character that is not exactly a character but mostly just a tool for comedy, you cannot insert stock drama scenes. That's not going to work.

Also odd: Kyoung-Ho’s son so far seems to be a plot device.

Well, what else could he be in this setup? And there's nothing wrong with it, actually. As long as they didn't try to write in a traditional male lead trajectory ...

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I don't straightout dislike over-the-top, occasionally they do work for me (though "Marriage, Not Dating" was another one I abandoned within 2 episodes).

<Well, what else could he be in this setup?

He could actually be part of the story? Okay, maybe that's too distracting (given we have 4 females plus their men that this drama is dedicated to), but what's the point of selling the male lead as a single dad with a son, when the son magically disappears whenever he's not needed? A single dad's responsibilities don't vanish just because he decides, one night, to drink and get meander all about town to get married. Where was the child, home alone, opening the door for drunk dad? Dead asleep for hours, noticing nothing? Safely at a sleepover? Did I miss a scene?

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He could actually be part of the story? Okay, maybe that's too distracting (given we have 4 females plus their men that this drama is dedicated to), but what's the point of selling the male lead as a single dad with a son, when the son magically disappears whenever he's not needed?

It's just another of those poisoned compromises: They need a male lead char because it's K-drama. They need to make him a widowed single dad because each of the characters has to represent a certain distinct awkward marital status.
But of course he cannot really "be" a widowed single dad, as that would collide both with him being the male lead (who must be immature and always available among other things) as well as him being one of the men to give to the actual main "characters" (and as such, he is just a token).

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<the male lead (who must be immature and always available among other things)

You put it so bluntly, LOL.

Damn me, wanting more than a token!

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"Exactly. In contrast to you, I like over-the-top comedies (like “Marriage, Not Dating”), but the show-runners have to commit to them. "

Do you like Taiwanese shows? If so I wonder if you'd like Marry Me, Or Not.

The titles are similar but it's a different show. It's spoken of very well on several sites, but I couldn't go for it entirely, because I'm not that keen on over-the-top comedies.

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I thought it was just me, but judging by the various comments on various shows now running, perhaps k-drama really IS hitting a very low spot. Aside from Signal, I find myself just mentally wandering off on all the new ones.

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Well, I'm super-picky (as you know ;-) so I wouldn't take my opinions as any indication of the state of kdrama.

I just wish there was more variety, to cater for all tastes. But everything is so much of the same/we've-seen-all-this-before (which I no longer have any patience for).

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That is my problem - almost everything just seems like the same old recycled formula, with a bit of "who the hell would ever actually DO/SAY that?" tossed in.

Have not seen anything really original for quite a while.

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That's why i'm having a problem with Moorim School. I can take predictable but the last straw was the predictability of the romance. Mysterious jewel or not, I can't keep watching this wholeheartedly.

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@Windsun

"with a bit of “who the hell would ever actually DO/SAY that?” tossed in."

LOL, yes, that's part of my issue!

@Carole

I'm only holding on to Shi-woo, whose character I quite like (the burden he carries on his shoulders) but the predictability of everything is very tiring. I can't care about the jewel (or whatever treasure) either, as I no doubt it'll be some other overly clichéd thing.

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I think they might do some interesting "new" things with pregnant single mom character. Just thinking.

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If that is the case, it would be great. But, I'm not going to continue watching, the other characters, Mimo in particular, frustrate me too much.

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but don't you think she's meant "to learn" and we have to endure her for a while?

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Yeah, she'll learn but Mimo is so deep in that I think she needs years of learning. I don't think the drama will give her that, and I don't have the patience to watch her – I'd have to have some inkling of sympathy for her, which I don't. If she was in her early 20s, I could maybe muster some, but at 34....

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@alua

"er bowing out of the wedding is a much more interesting story than the let’s-get-them-to-reconnect-because-we-can’t-have-a-single-mom-as-happy-ever-after trajectory I’m expecting now.)"

I take all your points but have to say, that's not where they went with it. Part of why I'm enjoying the show is how they throw up something and you imagine they'd run with it, only for it to go somewhere else. I found it with the set up between Mimo and Soo Hyuk and instead they went somewhere else.

With the relationship with the kid - I think it was hinted at that Soo Hyuk had always been devoted, having remained single for 13 years and his life revolved around the kid and his work. But his work as a reporter includes stakeouts and late nights, so I'd assume there is some arrangement with the kid. For the sake of the narrative pace, the writers might just choose to leave out all the mundane details at the start. It's logical to wonder about them, but more might be revealed eventually.

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No, that's not where they went but I didn't say that's where they went. If they do something else, great (as I said to Carole). But I'm still not going to watch, the drama's not my cup of tea and three hours of frustration is all I'm willing to give.

But do enjoy. :-)

<I’d assume there is some arrangement with the kid. For the sake of the narrative pace, the writers might just choose to leave out all the mundane details at the start. It’s logical to wonder about them, but more might be revealed eventually.

Sure, but to me that's uneven writing. You don't need a lengthy explanation that throws off the narrative pace. A couple of well-placed hints are all you need – because "eventually" is too long off when I'm watching three episodes (I think in one the kid didn't appear at all?) and am wondering why the main character seems to be a sandwich making single dad one second and a total bachelor the next. As I said, I'm wondering if I missed a scene somewhere (maybe I did!).

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They probably could have made it clearer with what happened to his son, for the evening he got drunk with Mimo. I think he was on a sleepover with his friend.

But fair enough - different strokes, different folks!

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S0 this a new J-version of the Chinese "Mars"?

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Yes. I've dropped it already (one episode was enough). Pity, given the rich source material they had to work with.

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ah, too bad. it is a story with great potential, lots of genuine darkness, not just plot device but this eerie underlying darkness of human souls. there are moments that can be too manga-esque, but when directed honestly, intuitively, one can create a very tense and engaging story.

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The original manga (that the Taiwanese drama is based on) is actually Japanese btw.

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Re: Fukada Kyoko - what you said about her makes me want to cry, because she was SO great in Kamikaze Girls - that still remains high on my list of favourite movies of all time in any language.

It was probably the first movie I saw with a female lead who was self-centred, petty, materialistic and completely oblivious to the world around her, and unapologetically so - and doesn't suddenly get an attitude makeover or realise the "error" of her ways, or get in any way broken or punished for being the way she is. I thought she really nailed that part, it's a shame to know she's boxed herself into the standard stupid-heroine roles now.

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I haven't seen here in "Kamikaze Girls" - only in "Friends" with Won Bin, "God, Please Give Me More Time", "Second Love", "Tokyo Airport: Air Traffic Service" and
"Things You Can't Learn in School!". Some of these are watchable (though none are great) but her characters don't seem vastly different, nor are they particularly interesting – they vary only in degree of "naive, but pretty damsel".

"Second Love" (which is recent) is terrible, so the memories of this one, combined with this drama as her next drama, means I'm not going to continue trying her stuff.

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Do yourself a favour and watch Kamikaze Girls sometime - even if you don't like her, it's a fantastic movie (plus I liked that it was centred on a friendship between two girls, and both actresses really pulled their odd-couple weight there). There's nothing naive or innocent about her here - she's cynical, selfish and quite the misanthrope, and isn't given the narrative 'out' of a traumatic childhood or something. Maybe it was just a really well-written role for her, but it's a great performance, both by her and Tsuchiya Anna.

And I think I see what you mean about her in Tokyo Airport, I tried half an episode because it starred her, found it unutterably dull and gave up on it because she didn't even seem like the same actress who did Kamikaze Girls, and I do not mean that in a good way. Who knows, if it hadn't been for Dolls and Kamikaze Girls (mainly the latter), I might have dismissed her too.

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Okay, I'll give that one a chance some time.

LOL, of the ones I mentioned, Tokyo Airport was actually the more watchable one.

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The premise alone is wack (an odd-couple friendship between a Lolita and a yanki) but it's the two girls who make it glorious.

Plus it's a 2004 film but visually, it's aged FAR better than j or kdramas/movies of the same era, the costumes and cinematography are A++. I first watched it because literally all I knew was that Lolita = glorious costumes, but there's more to it than that.

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Sorry for my late comment,,, I do love the Kamikaze girls. Fukada was great in this. The new drama, please love the useless me, is also based on manga and I must say that many manga heroine are portrayed a bit air headed and naive sometimes(and sometimes over react) and her character is one of them.
On the side note, though I am Japanese, I watch k drama more than j drama and I hardly watch c drama. One of the reasons for this bias is that Chinese and Japanese actresses have much higher pitch in their voices and it simply bothers me,,their high pitch voices become almost a noise to my ears. Fukada's voice got the pitch and it annoys me. But when I watch j tv programs, many female celebrities have this high pitched voice,, I wonder if they purposely tune their
Voices to higher pitch believing that they sound cuter,,,being cute means a lot for Japanese girls,,,most viewers on this drama raves how Kiyoko Fukada has not aged instead of praising her acting chop.

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Fukada's "Useless Me" is a very common kind of shoujo heroine – the kind I can't stand. I prefer my shoujo heroines to be more 3-dimensional and to not have their entire life revolve around a guy. There are very few that I like to be honest, e.g. Ninako from Strobe Edge and Haruna from Koukou Debut, because there are layers to them and because they deviate from the stock character and challenge it (sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly). Haruna by trying to be that shoujo heroine but utterly failing because it's just not her nature, and Ninako by giving the impression that she is just an empty-headed, love-struck girl but really being highly sensitive and much stronger than it seems (in both manga, I'd argue it's the guys that can't do without the girls, not the other way around).

I get watch you mean about high pitched voices (don't like them either). I do watch more J-dramas, but generally the slice of life ones which cast a little differently.

<most viewers on this drama raves how Kiyoko Fukada has not aged instead of praising her acting chop

All about looks, nothing about acting.... Not surprised – it does explain the questionable casting choices of plenty of dramas.

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Cheese In The Trap is losing its lustre when compared with the first few episodes, I continue to watch it as it is “not too bad to watch” but not a “must watch” drama like AM1988. Luckily One More Happy Ending started immediately after AM1988 to fill in the void. I was saved from suffering AM1988 withdrawal syndrome as I can now wallow in this new drama. It is so hilariously entertaining and Jang Na-ra is such a cute sweetie pie, her acting is daebak. In each episode, just seeing her facial expressions alone is enough to make me laugh heartily.

Anyway, I’m already starting to develop 2nd lead syndrome for Baek In-ho in CITT though so far he has only showed signs of some minor jealousy and yet to seriously fall in love with Hong Seol. Yoo Jung seems too egocentric for my liking, he is contemptuous of the fake and insincere people around him but oblivious to his own manipulative behaviour by justifying his actions based on self-righteousness. He even demonstrated a narcissistic streak in dismissing the extent of the damage he had inflicted upon In-ho by hurting the hand of a genius pianist in the making. Hong Seol being so naïve and innocent will definitely be at her wit’s end when she gradually uncovers his complex personality. Though In-ho is blunt and abrasive at times, at least he is forthright and honest with Hong Seol. He and Hong Seol looked so compatible and comfortable in each other’s company while sitting side by side playing the piano, I really loved that scene! The boorish and domineering behaviour of those sunbae in uni is so disgustingly off-putting, seriously, do the seniors bully the juniors like underlings in Korean universities? How could such behaviour be condoned?

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Cheese in the Trap

Cheese In The Trap is losing its lustre when compared with the first few episodes, I continue to watch it as it is “not too bad to watch” but not a “must watch” drama like AM1988.

I think the first few episodes of Cheese were a little bit misleading. They were very much an (above average) stock rom-com; breezily paced, clumsy girl, dangerous boy, belligerent sexual tension.

Yoo Jung seems too egocentric for my liking, he is contemptuous of the fake and insincere people around him but oblivious to his own manipulative behaviour by justifying his actions based on self-righteousness. He even demonstrated a narcissistic streak in dismissing the extent of the damage he had inflicted upon In-ho by hurting the hand of a genius pianist in the making.

I think you made a pretty good assessment here. Jung is definitely not another "jerk with a heart of gold" male lead. He's a long way more serious.

Hong Seol being so naïve and innocent will definitely be at her wit’s end when she gradually uncovers his complex personality.

I think she's already much further ahead than you think. Seol is a weirdo magnet and she seriously suffers from it, but that doesn't stop her from still seeing and treating them as human beings.
She also did have a much better idea about who Jung is than almost everybody else before she started dating him. And now it seems she even appreciates his manipulative actions once in a while.

Though In-ho is blunt and abrasive at times, at least he is forthright and honest with Hong Seol.

Well, except that he's not. He's clearly aware that he likes her, but he keeps lingering around her cautiously not to tip her off too much. And why does he suddenly like to work hard when it comes to Seol's family business?

I'm not saying he isn't a great person, of course. Just "honest" doesn't seem to be the first word to describe him (especially around Seol).

He and Hong Seol looked so compatible and comfortable in each other’s company while sitting side by side playing the piano, I really loved that scene!

I'd agree with "comfortable". "compatible" on the other hand ... it's just that Kim Go-eun does such a marvellous job to exclude any kind of romantic or sexual chemistry from her end when she plays Seol interacting with In-ho.

The boorish and domineering behaviour of those sunbae in uni is so disgustingly off-putting, seriously, do the seniors bully the juniors like underlings in Korean universities? How could such behaviour be condoned?

Well, you have to agree that stability of society as a whole is more important than a few abusive sunbaes, right? Once we allow hubaes to act up, what's next? Homosexual marriages?

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Hi Jon, thanks for your lengthy comments. :)

I think the first few episodes of Cheese were a little bit misleading. They were very much an (above average) stock rom-com; breezily paced, clumsy girl, dangerous boy, belligerent sexual tension.

When it comes to drama watching, I think I’m quite easy to please. I like watching those breezily paced dramas with attractive leads, like Discovery of Romance and One More Happy Ending. I’m quite surprised when others can come up with so many convincingly good reasons to be critical about them. CITT is one of those that has the “feel-right” factor at the start, but somehow, I find that it starts to get boring, just like Oh My Venus, but for different reasons.

I think she’s already much further ahead than you think. Seol is a weirdo magnet and she seriously suffers from it, but that doesn’t stop her from still seeing and treating them as human beings. She also did have a much better idea about who Jung is than almost everybody else before she started dating him. And now it seems she even appreciates his manipulative actions once in a while.

How very true! She was initially repulsive to his violent beating of the pervert who shoved her down the stairs, but quickly forgave him just for the reason ‘because he did it for me”. It looks like she already knew that Jung has a dark side but is always finding reasons to dismiss it and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I’m not saying he isn’t a great person, of course. Just “honest” doesn’t seem to be the first word to describe him (especially around Seol).

It didn’t occur to me that he was lingering around Seol because he likes her in a romantic way, I thought he just likes hanging around with her like a buddy, and his jealousy probably arose out of his resentment against Jung. Maybe he does not fully understand his own feelings towards Seol yet. By honesty, I mean his character, but not so much about whether he is honest with his own feelings. Does that make sense?

Well, you have to agree that stability of society as a whole is more important than a few abusive sunbaes, right? Once we allow hubaes to act up, what’s next? Homosexual marriages?

I do agree that in the larger cultural context, the sunbaes/hubaes system does serve a very good purpose in schools and organisations. But when it is taken for granted, it can be overly exploited by abusive individuals particularly in situations where the juniors have no avenue to voice out their grievances. I was raised in a conservative society and now live in a country where there is a lot of freedom, LGBT rights are largely recognised and probably it is a matter of time before gay marriages become legal. Whether this is morally right or wrong, is too big an issue to discuss, and not for me to judge. Well indeed, it is very hard to strike a balance and impossible to have the best of both worlds.

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re: social disorder and gay marriage, I could be wrong but I think Jon G. was just being facetious. But you do raise some interesting points.

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When it comes to drama watching, I think I’m quite easy to please. I like watching those breezily paced dramas with attractive leads, like Discovery of Romance and One More Happy Ending. I’m quite surprised when others can come up with so many convincingly good reasons to be critical about them.

Well, I cannot speak for others here. As for attractive leads, I'm a European white middle-aged predominantly heterosexual male. So neither female nor male leads in K-dramas are particularly attractive to me.
The other weakness is my stupid brain. It always complains about stuff like: "I've seen this thousands of times before, I'm out of here ..."

There's nothing wrong with these kinds of shows, of course. There is a considerable audience for them. It's just that, for me, I need a little bit of originality or ingenuity to enjoy a show. There are K-dramas like that too, fortunately.

CITT is one of those that has the “feel-right” factor at the start, but somehow, I find that it starts to get boring, just like Oh My Venus, but for different reasons.

Yep, I agree, OMV became pretty boring pretty fast. Cheese, on the other hand, became much more interesting to me once they made it clear that both leads are not the stock characters in a stock setup they looked like in the first few episodes. That alone makes me want to follow the show. (It also helps that the production values are way above average.)

However, I see (and I criticised back then) how the early episodes with their slapstick and pace and character portrayal confuse viewers. They expected a completely different kind of show. It's not their fault, it's definitely a mistake by the show-runners.

How very true! She was initially repulsive to his violent beating of the pervert who shoved her down the stairs, but quickly forgave him just for the reason ‘because he did it for me”. It looks like she already knew that Jung has a dark side but is always finding reasons to dismiss it and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Or maybe even further. Maybe him having a "dark side" is not reason enough to burn bridges for her at all.

She ear-witnessed him beating up and arguing with the thief (including the talking about his hand). That's probably even worse than watching it. But some of the elements that make it scary -- his cold, unemotional, controlled, calculated proceeding -- she already knows part of that about him. Otherwise, I think, she would have run away from him after that.

It didn’t occur to me that he was lingering around Seol because he likes her in a romantic way, I thought he just likes hanging around with her like a buddy, and his jealousy probably arose out of his resentment against Jung.

The way the actor plays him makes it rather obvious to me that In-ho has romantically charged feelings for Seol. And because of that, I start...

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Maybe him having a “dark side” is not reason enough to burn bridges for her at all.

Like you said, Seol is a weirdo magnet, so she is probably very used to deviant behaviour. Seol was awestruck when she learnt about his chaebol background, so she might have started to treat him with some degree of reverence, therefore, it is logical that she gave him greater leeway.

You sounded like a second generation Korean who grew up in a western country as you seem so familiar with Korean culture and norms, it came as a big surprise to me that you are actually Caucasian. No wonder Juniper left the comment that you were just being facetious! :)

So neither female nor male leads in K-dramas are particularly attractive to me.

Yeah, generally Asian facial features are not as sharp, but they may appeal in a different way? For example, Lee Young Ae, do you not find her attractive at all? How about Chinese actress Zhang Ziyi or Indian actress Aishwarya Rai?

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Like you said, Seol is a weirdo magnet, so she is probably very used to deviant behaviour. Seol was awestruck when she learnt about his chaebol background, so she might have started to treat him with some degree of reverence, therefore, it is logical that she gave him greater leeway.

She learned about that only very recently, didn't she? I don't think she would ever have started to date him if she was really appalled by his personality.

You sounded like a second generation Korean who grew up in a western country as you seem so familiar with Korean culture and norms, it came as a big surprise to me that you are actually Caucasian. No wonder Juniper left the comment that you were just being facetious! 

I have to confess, yes, I might have been just a tiny little bit sardonic there. I'm not saying that neo-Confucianism is wrong, it just has its downsides like all other cultural paradigms.

So neither female nor male leads in K-dramas are particularly attractive to me.

Yeah, generally Asian facial features are not as sharp, but they may appeal in a different way? For example, Lee Young Ae, do you not find her attractive at all? How about Chinese actress Zhang Ziyi or Indian actress Aishwarya Rai?

Look, I grew up in Communist Europe, with very little ethnic diversity. Actually, I don't find east Asians non-attractive per se. K-drama characters on the other hand ... That probably has a lot to do with the kind of personalities these characters display. But I also struggle with the Korean physical beauty ideal a lot. Well, I don't struggle with it, I don't get it.

(There are definitely Korean actresses I find attractive, like Kim Go-eun. Some of them are even compatible with the Korean beauty ideal. Lee Mi-sook comes to mind. But for typical female lead actresses ...)

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She learned about that only very recently, didn’t she? I don’t think she would ever have started to date him if she was really appalled by his personality.

That's right, so it all boils down to an innocent first love. I think she treated Jung with a lot awe and respect, it is a girly behaviour, particularly because he is a sunbae, who is charismatic and intelligent. There is a tendency for innocent girls to fall hard for bad guys, nevermind his lack of empathy or whatever, this might explain why she still dated him even though she suspected Jung was intentionally making things difficult for her initially.

I have to confess, yes, I might have been just a tiny little bit sardonic there. I’m not saying that neo-Confucianism is wrong, it just has its downsides like all other cultural paradigms.

Though Confucianism originated from China, Korea is the country which preserved and propagated these values up to this day. But due to economic reasons, they rejected Buddhism and embraced Catholicism at the onset of modernisation, so Korean society is a very interesting fusion of Eastern and Western values, though seemingly very westernised with a modern and advance facade, it is still quite a traditional society at its core. There are certain behaviour though fully acceptable in Korea, eg. physical punishment of students in schools, would be condemned in the West.

That probably has a lot to do with the kind of personalities these characters display. But I also struggle with the Korean physical beauty ideal a lot.

I get what you meant here. I think is has a lot to do with "conformist" behaviour, people just want to conform with some generally accepted standards, norms, fashion, etc., not only in Korea but in many Asian countries. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, there shouldn't be a standard. For example, I find French actress Audrey Tautou more attractive then many Hollywood stars who are recognised as top beauties, it is due to the deep impression she imprinted on me when I watched the movie Amelie. Yeah, I fully agree, attractiveness is not about physical appearance and facial features but include personalities, mannerisms, etc. as well.

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"And why does he suddenly like to work hard when it comes to Seol’s family business?"

Lol, when has In Ho been anything but hardworking in all of the odd jobs he's gotten himself into? Are we watching the same show? His last employer was dismayed to have to let him go, because Jung yet again had to butt in.

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Hi All and Happy OT

I see that HeadNo2 has been delegated to start our OT today. Did you only just say you had more time... and did not expect to be given more work? LOL!

I'm watching the shows that are just airing, and they seem quite watchable, it's just that they are also rather too many at one time!

In order of preference:
Signal
Cheese In The Trap
One More Happy Ending
Madame Antoine
Neighborhood Hero
Moorim School

Of these, the one that surprised me the most ie I was most surprised that I actually still continue watching it ... is Moorim School. It's a total, kiddie show to me, and yet it has it's moments and is engaging. I know DB has stopped recapping it, but I did a short summary sort of recap for myself of Ep 6. I'll post it below for fun and if anyone here is still watching and wanting to comment on it, we can do that together on this OT. :)

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Moorim Episode 6 - Brief Summary/Recap

Shi Woo in Meditation class, and Chae Yoon (the man in a coma) seem to share the same dream of the fire, of a child being rescued and the presence of someone else in that scene. Seon Ah is very taken with the idea that she shares the same trauma as Shi Woo but her father dismisses it. She gets huffy asking why her dad is not as sweet towards her as he is towards the other students and asks petulantly if he’s really her father. This gives Dean Hwang pause. Later on he looks at an old photo of himself with Chae Yoon and his wife and wonders if Chae Yoon is still alive.

The dream of the fire has shaken Chae Yoon awake and Wang Hao, Chi Ang’s father visits him and assigns minions to watch him and to find his missing children, concerned because Chae Yoon is an important key to their current deal.

Chi Ang’s jealousy over Soon Deok’s and Shi Woo’s mentor-mentee relationship continues and both boys are more aware of Soon Deok and of each other as rivals, although they say nothing about it.

Chi Ang is awakened by the lullaby on the piano, played by Seon Ah who says it calms her nerves. Shi Woo seems to sleep better with the sound of the lullaby. Seon Ah cannot recall much of her mother but we get a flashback that the lullaby was a song that her mum had sung to her and her brother when they were babies.

The exam has Seon Ah and Yeob Jung tested in hand to hand combat, in which their scores are tied. Chi Ang and Shi Woo are next and also end up in a tie, with Shi Woo giving the successful final blow. Chi Ang is unhappy to see the exchange of smiles between Soon Deok and Shi Woo.

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In the meantime, Ahjumma has started working for Chi Ang’s mum and gets her to cook for her son so that she can siphon off some of the food for herself. Soon Deok’s dad thwarts Ahjumma’s food skimming and is not happy that Soon Deok will make the food delivery to Moorim School.

The Comprehensive Exam which had caused stress for the students turns out to be a potluck party in which the students would be graded on their cooking, dress and etiquette. Chi Ang takes the opportunity to choose the party clothes for Seon Ah, which Shi Woo notes. Seon Ah seems to have become aware of Chi Ang’s attention while Soon Deok finds a pretty dress ready for her to wear to the party.

The students make glamorous entrances into the party and all look pretty good. Soon Deok enters looking both stunning and ridiculous as she poses and gestures as if she’s a celebrity doing a red carpet walk for paparazzi. She's surprised that it's not Chi Ang who chose the dress for her, and looks at Shi Woo who appears conscious about this but says nothing.

Chi Ang’s attempt to cheat with his mum’s cooking is found out while Soon Deok’s mugwort rice cakes elicit praise from Dean Hwang, who notes they are good for the sense of hearing. Soon Deok does not admit that she chose the dish for Shi Woo, although she glances at him, but Chi Ang is suspicious and possibly Shi Woo is pleased. Soon Deok does a tacky dance with Shi Woo and adamantly insists that she did not make the rice cakes for him. *protests, too much you think?*

At the end of the grading, Seon Ah, Yeob Jung, Soon Deok, Shi Woo, Chi Ang and Choi Ho have all got the same score and Dean Hwang decides to change the last test to break the tie. The six students are given drugged champagne that puts them to sleep, only to wake up to find themselves locked in the armoury, and that the exam is not over for them.

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Thank you, @growingbeautifully, right now cheese in the trap is my crack drama but I have to confesse that moorim school is my guity pleasure...

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It's my guilty pleasure too.

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Comments:
In spite of seeing many flaws in the execution of this show, I find it appealing in a childlike way (I call it a kiddie show or a show that seems meant for kids, although it's shown pretty late). I do feel that the number of episodes can be cut, probably without affecting the story, since the story is mainly a school and self-discovery tale of young people with ties to a mystery, and it has been told very slowly so far. Some skillful editing will actually improve the overall flow and feel of the show.

I'm waiting for the revelation of the mystery of why a 'magical' family was destroyed and who the people were who destroyed them, plus who the people are now who are interested in that family and the Chintamani, seems to have taken a backseat to the loveline and love triangle in school, but I'm waiting to see these two worlds meet and merge or collide with the presence of Chi Ang and Shi Woo (son of family destroyer(?) and son of the victim(?) ) in the same place.

I'm a little hopeful that since this is a show seemingly meant more for kids, the many unexplained things like how or why Moorim School is hidden and sealed, why Chi Ang and his mum, as well as Shi Woo and Chae Yoon (his dad?) seem to be connected by strong emotions, ... get some explanation. I loved the Harry Potter books because of this... everything was explained and resolved so well.

I hope that the side stories and characters who seem to be placed to give us some clues to the mystery do not remain just a waste of time, but get more fully integrated into the main tale. With the episode cut, they may be the first parts that disappear in the last 8 episodes.

And I just have to say, is it deliberately from the perspective of kids that the Moorim School adults are written to be so immature, irresponsible and even unethical in how they treat the students? Sending out newbies into the forest with wild animals, without supplies or proper attire was already shockingly bad, but deliberately drugging one's students seems like a very low move. However, once again I'm reminded of Harry Potter and how the kids were left very much to themselves in dangerous situations and also drugged and placed underwater even... maybe Moorim took a leaf from Rowling's work! :)

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Thank you so much @Growingbeautifully

Despite some bashful comments regarding Moorim School, i actually love the drama a lot.

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Moorim School: I am horrified that the teachers drug the students. Actually, it appears that Dean Kwang comes up with the idea himself and the staff goes along with his meditation part of the exam. Truly, I'm horrified. My comments are in moderation (?) but I do have plenty to say about that on my recap blog.

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Same here with Moorim School! Waiting for full series for CITT so I can binge watch it. My resolve might break on that soon, though...

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Happy OT guys! It’s nice to see that 2016 is starting out nice with these much watchable dramas premiering. Cheese in the Trap is still adorable but it’s getting darker as Jung’s persona becomes clearer to us (and stalker boy is out to prove his true colors). He’s this happy adorable person whenever he’s around Seol but once he switches to his cold and dark side, it’s really scary. Seriously when he smirks, I get chills. My sister happened to catch a glimpse while I was watching and asked if I was watching a thriller hahaha

One More Happy Ending though has flaws but I’m still sticking to it, party because of Kwon Yool and Yoo In-na’s and characters. One is this calm, rational person and the other is this ball of temper. It’s just fun to watch how the other characters react to their personality. However I’m also excited to see how Soo-hyuk and Mi-mo’s relationship develops especially after what happened between Mi-mo and Hae-joon. C’mon Soo-hyuk, this is your chance!

And lastly, there is Signal. Damn. Damn this show. Every bit of this drama is just wonderful. I do love when time is used to mess with characters and drive a plot. But the acting, the storyline, the editing, and the camera work, all put together creates such an interesting and well-thought out drama.

I’m hoping this doesn’t falter. Mystery-thriller is such tricky genre if you don’t plan out the story properly, and it gets even more complicated when you are playing with time. However, it seems the writer knows what she wants to happen, and it’s just a matter of executing/writing it properly.

Weirdly though, it sorta reminded me of The Time Traveller’s Wife where one of the lead characters were already aware of their connection. But unlike the book, where one cannot escape what is meant to be, Signal’s universe allows the manipulation of the past in order to produce a different outcome in the future (comparison ends there). It’s a complicated premise but so very intriguing. It will be interesting to see how the story will unravel especially the reason why this is happening in the first place.

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I thinl the doctor in OMHE is really difficult person but I like the way ge talks, it draw me in
OMHE is really fun, part of it becauase I just siy back and relax, I don't think too much

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CITT - Revived my love for kdramas. I should have really waited till it was over and marathoned through it. Waiting for episodes is like getting crumbs when you want to devour the 3 course meal. But so so so much fun to watch along with the community and arguing endlessly about Jung

MA - Someone revoke the medical license pls. Okish, lacklustre. It could have been really funny but it just feels ..... flat

Moorim - Hogwarts i love you. But moorim is like the poor, penniless, nonimaginative version of it. Its beyond ridiculous. 10 students, 5 teachers, no classes except meditation, exams without teaching ??? ..... And what was the grand exam - cooking/dressing/dancing ???? Is this a finishing school

Neighbourhood hero - I thought it would be like the American show 'burn notice'. But the spy(s) seem very un-spy-ish. Gorgeously shot but i don't think the writer worked out the kinks in the story. Feels like the first draft

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"Finishing school" came to mind when I watched too. I wish the plot was better. The only character I care about is Ariel.

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Jeffrey Donovan reminded me of Hwang Jung Min (looks). If I used to watch recorded episodes of Burn Notice every Sunday. Need some catching up to do on Netflix.

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Loving moorim school and madam Antoine. Wonder why other people keep saying its bad. All I see is actors with stories to tell. Watch. Learn. Ignore bad comments. Life goes on.

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Happy Friday! Every day is happy drama day for me these days. Yeah I am easy to be pleased :)
Weekend: Youth over flowers(Best Bromance+ scenery), IHL(feels), Signal(Intriguing), Neighborhood hero(sleek), MA(mindless fun), Jang Yeong-sil(Sageuk's charm)
M-T: CITT(Kim Go-eun!), Dazzling Temptation(Revenge is on!), MS(Kids in me), SFD(This is acting)
W-R: OMHE(Hilarious+ eye candy). Remember(Frustrating, but hoping), GakJu(Double Frustrating, but hoping)

reply 1988: Abundance of interviews are coming in. Wish JB cover some of these. Some are(sorry for mistakes in advance):
1. Ra Mi-ran(JH's mom):"For SSD Ajumma friendship, we drank tea and chattered outside the filming since no one drinks. First shooting was the most impressive. You know, Kim Sung-kyun(JH's father) jokes all the time but no one pays attention. I felt so bad, but as time goes by I got used to it, and I came to hate him doing it." About ad-lib, "The only ad-lib I did was hitting my husband, and Sung-kyun ssi took it well". About her JH's mom's role, "Actually she is similar to me in many ways. And Sun-woo's mom/Sun-young ssi has great reaction. On the scene I get teared up, she is already crying in front of me so they could not continue shooting until she calmed down." About her sons, "PD told me I have just 2 sons, but have no expectation because they are really ugly. I said I am not gonna do it then, but as soon as I saw JH, I said "You took after your mother/me!" He was not good looking but looked like me. Those types of guys are more attractive as time goes by". About husband stuff, "I think JH type is better husband material. Even though I like Bo-geum, I felt disappointed because JH was my son." "I was hoping even after the confession scene. But JH said "I think this is it". So I told him "Right. So you better hurry get out of that(being too involved in the show) because when Reply ends, bubble will end too. I heard Duk-seon cried a lot at the confession scene, so couldn't shoot her scene at the same time." About comments on the net, "I love to read them even they are 3-5000 of them. It is so fun and I'm curious about what viewers think". If there is anyone she wants to have as her actual daughter or son, "I want Duk-seon since I do not have a daughter. And of course son is Jung-bong. He can make the bread~ And whatever he does probably make money." About drama ending her family moving to Pangyo, "Our family might have lived well (thanks to her husband). But I wonder what happened to Jung-hwan. Since Duk-seon's family moved to Pangyo too, I'd like to ask Duk-seon why she dumped my son."

2. Kim Sun-young/SW's mom said her daughter felt bothered by her drama daughter JinJoo. She said her daughter is in same age and she seemed to get nervous because her mom seem to love JJ so much. She kept saying "JinJoo is fake daughter and I am your real daughter, right? and Your love for JinJoo is not real, right". "She hold my hands...

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"She hold my hands tightly when we sleep at night." About the show, "All staffs were like family and cried together after filming the last scene." About her role, she said she felt lost at first, but PD told her "She is completely same person as you. Just do it". She said her personality is just like the character, and her accent was no problem because she lived in KyangSang province. "My parents love drama, so I prayed to get the role every day. Unexpectantly my scene was not small and show was very popular which made my parents really happy". She picked 3 Ajummas peeling garlic when Ra Mi-ran said 'Your life comes only once. You should live happily at least once" as the most memorable scene.
She said she was 12th in grade school in 1988 and lived in countryside similar to reply 1988. One day someone stole her house steel gate, but they kept living that way. She said her front yard was neighbor children's playground and all neighbors were very close and knew everything about everybody.

3.Heri/Duk-seon: "Husband was Taek from the start, but if you ask 'why was it Taek?', then maybe I failed to express (my feeling toward Taek) properly. I also didn't know Taek was husband. If I knew I could have expressed better not to cause confusion." About the most memorable scene, "The episode made me sad the most was when grandma passed away in ep 3. There was time I lived with grandma and me and younger sibling -only 3 of us. I had the most memories about that time, so I really cried a lot when shooting that scene." "The most difficult scene was when I had to sing the Spanish song when I took a lesson from Bora in ep 4. Because I could not memorize the script, I kept having NG." She said she got along well with all four guys- PBG, RJY, LDH, GGP. "Whenever all of us filming together, the studio was so noise enough to mess up the shooting." "DongHwi oppa is really funny, Joon-yeol oppa was very nice to me, and Bo-geum oppa is similar to Taek- cautious and sincere. GyungPyo oppa is warm-hearted and attractive."

BTW by now all know who picked up Jung-hwan's ring after the confession in ep 18.(Did you guess?) It was revealed in 'Taxi' who had Ryu Joon-yeol/JH and Lee Dong-hwi/DR as guests. Both picked the first scene in ep 1 (which connects to the last scene where three boys sitting in the Taek's room) as the most memorable scene.
So why Dong-ryong was not invited to YOF show again? :(

Random: In one program (Jagi ya), Announcer Kim Hwan said his wife was so crazy about Park Bo-gum, so he changed the name on her phone as 'Park Bo-geum'. lol.
Korean gallop poll on TV program Koreans love the most done during 19-21st showed: no 1. was Infinity challenge, no.2 was Reply 1988, no.3 was SFD, no. 4 was Please mom, no. 5 was Geum Sa-won.

Others:
Cheese in the trap(ep 7) got 7% ratings. Interesting thing was that the viewers who watched the most was female in their 40's and next was in their 10's and next was in...

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in their 20's.

In Abnormal summit, the writer Yoo Si-min mentioned about Yoo Ah-in in SFD.
He said Yoo Ah-in as BangWon is miscating. He said YAI is too good-looking to be a man of conviction. "How would that kind of good looking person will stick to his resolve, risking his life? That is not realistic at all." which were agreed by other guests. I agree-I like YAI acting in SFD, but honestly I still can't get used to his face and voice as Bang-won (Yeah I know - get over it!). BTW I think everyone is praise-worthy acting-wise in SFD (and all women in the show are great. Talking about woman, my favorite is Kim Go-eun/Seol from CITT these days. Used to be Jang na-ra of I remember you and Lee Bo-young of I hear your voice).

This year/2015's movie award by Korean movie reporter association, voted by 83 reporters was given On 27th. The winner is chosen from the Korean and foreign movies during 1/1 to 12/31 in 2015. Byun Yo-han got the new actor award for his 'Social phobia' and Yoo Ah-in got top actor award for his 'Sado' and 'Veteran'. Jun Do-yeon got top actress award, and new actress award went to Park so-dam. I am glad we can see all these movie actor/actresses in TV too. Now only if Jun Do-jeon can come back to TV screen (her last role was in 2005 Lovers in Praha, and cameo appearance in 2008 On-air). There was time actors start from the drama, and move to movie once they get name/experiences and never come back to TV screen. But time changed (thanks to maybe success of Bae Yong-jun from Winter Sonata, which ended up increasing pay scale for the drama appearances and CF income) and more of them show in both places (great for drama lovers).

And one big ent news of this week was Yoon Si-who coming back from Army(marine). That made me think- He and Joo-won were in the drama Kim Tak-gu, and YSW was main and JW was the second lead, yet JW became much more popular.
Can you think of any actor/actress who became more famous than the main lead in their earlier dramas? I can only think of one- Delicious proposal.

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And sorry for long rants (and half-baked English). I should stop commenting stuff but it is too fun.

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Much obliged!

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Hi fan, are recent Abnormal Summit episodes subbed in English somewhere? I can find new eps raw, but not subbed.

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I don't think anyone take Abnormal Summit, I also can't find the subbed episode after ep 54.
I miss the show.
I actually hope the fan of yuta can be lots of help when he debut but he already left the show

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And one big ent news of this week was Yoon Si-who coming back from Army(marine). That made me think- He and Joo-won were in the drama Kim Tak-gu, and YSW was main and JW was the second lead, yet JW became much more popular.

Oh, I am so excited. I really, really like him as an actor.

IMO, Joo-Won is totally overrated as an actor. A stone face when it comes to emotion. The only show that worked for me was Good Doctor.

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I like YSY too! I'm looking forward to his upcoming new projects. As for Joo Won surpassing YSY's achievement, I think it has a lot to do with the projects each one selected. JW's repertoire has been more versatile, he somehow managed to get involved in the right drama at the right time. Even with that said, his achievement could not be totally written-off as being lucky. Though I do not like his cold hard 'stone face' and his irritating smirk at times, I have to admit that he is a multi-talented artiste, he can sing very well too, I love his crystal clear voice. YSY probably made the wrong choice by being portrayed as a flower boy stereotype over and over again. Also his involvement in a lengthy China drama took his focus away from the Korean scene at a time when so many new faces were working so hard to make a mark. In Prime Minister & I, he was even relegated to the 2nd lead, which is quite a worrying sign. Hopefully he can make an impressive comeback which can turn the tides.

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Thanks for the translation - really sweet to hear their BTS thoughts for Reply 1988!

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Can you think of any actor/actress who became more famous than the main lead in their earlier dramas? I can only think of one- Delicious proposal.

My Girl, Lee Jun-ki being the 2nd lead became more famous than the main lead Lee Dong-wook

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wow thank you very very much for the interview translations

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thank you so much for the interview translation, I also gave a shout-out to Ra Mi Ran on twitter and I hope she read it, if not, it is just some positive vibes going her way. I want her to be in every drama!
and Kim Sun Young and Go Kyung Po seemed so natural. They were like real mother an son. When you look at the behind the scenes when they first met, they were nose to nose right away and really, all the women were REAL mothers to the kids.

but Ra Mi Ran is way straight-forward too. she said "ugly" for Jun Yeol? well now. He aint ugly, he is atypical.
but I dont think he is husband material. then again, what do I know about those matters

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Watching one more happy ending, cheese in the trap and madame antoine now.

Surprisingly, one more happy ending is my favourite of the 3. It came as a pleasant surprise and is my rom-com crack right now :)

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Hello, all:

Great times in dramaland.

Six Flying Dragons: Awaiting what promises to be a momentous bit of swordsmanship. Also awaiting Bangji's meeting with his mom which has to come soon. She better choose her family over her cause.

Cheese in the Trap: Trying to catch up. Some parts I fast forward through. Other parts remind me of why I really don't like certain kinds of people. The intense anger I feel for some of these characters is of course my issue but still.

Back on the cray train with Glamorous Temptation at epi 34 and All is well with episode 95. Enjoying the ride. See! You never need to watch everything in the middle when it comes to some dramas.

Remember: Wow, seriously the drama was always good but that last episode made my spine tingle. It's no longer melo and poksu and law drama but downright "suspenseful last minute in life to do something against the hypocritical powerful bad guys" gangster yumminess. I like the way the drama is slowly passing the baton from one hero to another.

Another Happy Ending: The moody marriage dropper needs more backstory. This is not real life, writers. It's hard being patient with a depressed character when we don't see the cause. Even if she doesn't know it herself...give us some hint. Does she dislike weak kindly adoring men? Why'd she get involved in him if she knew he wanted marriage out of the relationship? Love Yoo In Ah's character.

Moorim School: Dropped it. Not the ship I want to be on (apparently.)

Jang Yeong Sil: Trying to drop but it keeps reeling me in.

All About My Mom: I'll force myself to watch the last episodes.

That's it. Have a great weekend, all.

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Oh Dang! I totally forgot Signal and Neighborhood hero.

Signal: I am so so so loving this. I've been missing a good honest well-written police story. Plus it's a time loop story. And both well-written. Major happiness.

Watching Neighborhood hero because I looooooove Soo Hyuk. He has the most easygoing natural acting style. He seems like someone one might know around the block. Just a very "real" essence about all his characters.

Okay, I think that's it.

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Moorim School derailed.

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It really did. And I can generally accept some derailment but the wedging in of the love triangle was my last straw. Too easy.

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Hi Carole,
I was actually okay with the love triangle, but now...

I just can't get over (really I can't) that spiking the alcohol with a plant (poppies? peyote? anyone?) is in any way, shape, or form okay in anyone's book. I am blown away, I know I am going about this, but it's the most awful set-up I think I've ever seen. An unforgivable irresponsible move by a supposedly wise, caring Dean - Moorim, you disappointed me more than I can bear.

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the hierarchy thing in kdramas often goes overboard.

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Hi Everyone! ..... I hope you are doing well today.

Something a little weird is going on, I think, because my laptop is showing no comments for Open Thread in addition to not loading some Dramabeans pictures all of a sudden. ....... However, pictures and comments are showing up fine on my tablet. Hmmm. ....*worried*

Watched this week:

Six Flying Dragons - Watched the completely fabulous episodes 25 and 26 .....the eps with the "party" and the cave reveal. Wow. ..... All I know is, I'm completely enthralled with this drama. It just never disappoints.

Remember - I'm barely at ep 8. I know Jin-woo is desperate to save his father, but I wonder if it ever crossed his mind that he's at such a disadvantage to be going all in against Ilho like his is.

That's all for now. ...... Everyone take care and have a great Friday!

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I wonder if it's your browser. Maybe try looking at OT on chrome or edge.

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Carole -

This is what I'm wondering about also. I hope it isn't the browser, but who knows. ..... Everything was working fine until I came here for OT. ....*sadface*

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That's happening for me on the Byun Yo Han fashion thread but not on the recaps. Have checked across all my browsers. I'm wondering if it's something to do with external image links.

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Dramapanda -

Oh my gosh! This is where I first noticed it too .... in the Byun Yo-han post ..... and like you stated, the recaps are fine.

So it's just not me then.

Thank you for your comment because I was seriously thinking something was very, very wrong with my laptop.

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Myself also...couldn't get the pictures to load in the article re Byun Yo Han.

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No worries...I clicked on a pic to "open in new tab" but then that led me to a Photobucket page saying they're doing some maintenance. That could be why?!

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Now the problem has extended to the recaps too. The ones that were showing earlier now have the same broken links... not sure what's going on but I have emailed Dramabeans just to let them know.

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I had a little problem with the external links as well. Maybe dramabeans added some new tweak to the program and that's what's causing issues. Old versions of browsers are getting so obsolete. I sometimes have to look at different stuff on different browsers. Three browsers installed on this laptop so far.

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Korfan: I had the opposite happening! My ipad would not post comments or show things, but my computer did. I put it down to technology being weird.

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SFD - yeah, those episodes were awesome. I am on episode 33...

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Back home from a manic week in Asia. There was so much going on, every thing is just stacked through the day. I enjoy the first few days of having returned to a country - it's respite before normal life takes over, and I can hide behind jet lag and acclimatising to have some down time. So I'm prescribing myself a few days of watching drama and wearing Korean sheet masks.

One More Happy Ending

I was surprised that I'm enjoying this far more than I thought I would. I've always liked Jang Nara but had thought this might be too fluffy and just like another Sex and the City. Though the show starts off on a raucous note with Episode 1 & 2, - I guess they're trying to for an exuberant kick off - by Episode 4, more layers are revealed and a stronger setting is established.

I'm enjoying the show's premise on dating in later life, and the state of relationships in various moments of a relationship's lifespan.

I guess I'm sympathetic to Mimo's character. Jang Nara makes her very likeable, and she's also self-aware that she's like a goldfish, too quick to flit away from the failure of one relationship to another. In a scene, she admits to her friends - for some reason, she very quickly gets the attention of men, but also loses them quickly. From her flashback scene with her ex-husband, it's suggested that she's not quite able to reflect meaningfully on what went wrong, in a rush to move on to the next thing.

But I like that she's a romantic at heart - she says when she loves, she's too quick to give everything. There's something about that that's interesting - because romantics can get too caught up with their own emotions and "giving" and it becoming less about the relationship itself - ie. the real interaction between two people.

Also it was interesting to see Ae Ran's story - being swept up in a relationship with a devoted man toward impending marriage but feeling something is off. I think it's easy to judge her character for being selfish, but knowing one's own emotions isn't that easy, especially when faced with lifelong commitment, social pressure and guilt. I've known people who got married with tons of misgivings, and then have regretted not saying so at the time out of fear of reprisal, or being seen to be shallow.

But most of all, I was quite moved by Da Jung's story. There's a great anguish for women who can't have children, and the deep resentment built up against their husbands, alongside the torturous IVF, artificial insemination procedures. Not just the physical pain, but the emotional rack it puts them under. It perhaps explains a little of why she's so tight at the moment - so flat in her way of speaking and looking at the world, and unable to connect with her husband but unable to let him go too.

I'm willing to give the show a bit more time get things going, to reveal more of the individual histories and relationships.

Cheese in the Trap

I'm still watching this and enjoying...

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ah, those 3000 characters...

Cheese in the Trap

I’m still watching this and enjoying it very much. My biggest worry at the moment is that various mutterings on the internet have suggested that as the webtoon is not complete, the drama will have its own separate ending. I'm nervous as the webtoon did such a great job of creating ambiguous characters and the k drama might opt for a more predictable ending.

Six Flying Dragons

More kudos to the series team for churning out consistently good episodes week after week. I am ready for a big plot movement forward now though - JDJ and Poeun have been circling each other for a bit and it'd be interesting to see power shift to other key players.

Signal
I've watched two episodes of this and not really getting into it. I think it's the time-warp device I'm not really buying.

Neighbourhood Hero
I've watched two episodes of this - pretty slick so far. The only character I'm really liking is Gwi 2.0 - such a cute, hapless face. Where did all that evil go? Did he lose it with the fangs? But this is probably on the back burner for a bit.

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Hi everyone! I'm totally, totally sick today (think fever of 102-103ish, hahahahahhhh) which sucks. Except that it means I'll probably just watch dramas the whole day, which doesn't suck.
Signal and Neighborhood Hero: Have to admit, they both sounded so interesting I went and skipped through the first episodes after looking at the recaps. I'll probably even break my 'wait til there's enough episodes so you don't die waiting for a week' rule to try them out.
One More Happy Ending: I've read a few of the recaps up til now, but I haven't been impressed by what I saw. Which is a shame, since I loved loved loved JKH in Falling for Innocence. Oh well.
Still loving Murphy's Law of Love, I'll probably die from the cuteness one day.
Because it's so close to finishing, I've got to decide what to watch next... I've debated a few shows, but I think I'm gonna go with Six Flying Dragons. The number of episodes kinda sorta scares me, but I've heard nothing but good things (well, 99.9% good things) about the show. I've avoided reading too many recaps so it won't get spoiled, but I've listened to pretty much all of the songs from the recaps and loved them. That's all, Happy Friday!

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Cozybooks -

Hope you get well soon. ..... Have fun drama-watching! .....Regarding Six Flying Dragons, don't let the number of episodes worry you. Give it a chance and see if you like it as much as many of us here do. It's such a well done drama, that after a while, it doesn't seem like a long drama anymore.

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Hi everyone, I just want to ask some drama recomendations, not the currently airing ones. I havent watch anything lately cause nothing really pique my interest, i dont know if its the dramas or im just not feeling it I always start them then just drop them for no real reason but I really want to watch something.
Also any good cdrama like nirvana in fire, i watch it since its seem kinda popular here and I really like it, i want to watch other good historical cdrama but dont know anything.Thanks..

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saraha ~

If you are ready, lol, I'd recommend The Legend of Zhen Huan.

It's long @ 76 episodes, but well worth it.

Gorgeous costumes, sets, acting, all top notch.

It is a battle between palace women so, lots of plots and schemes. A bit sad , but a good story all the same.

Heisui has recaps and a lot more at her website, Mydramatea.

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I haven been meening to se The legend of zhen huan for a while! I read some recaps of the show o get a feel for it before starting and now I'm just trying to fit it into the list of all the things to watch.

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Manin ~

There's no time like the present! Get started watching today and check in every couple of weeks or months. ;)

It is worth it. I see so many C dramas on Viki that look interesting but they're nowhere near complete.

Currently watching A Dream Of Red Mansions, enjoying it so far. The subbing has picked up, dying to see what happens, as all indicators tell of impending doom.

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John:
Yes that's why I've been holding off. Not knowing about the subs. I'm happy to finally see some subs for Last tomb, I've been waiting on that drama for ages as well.

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I want ro reccomended Scarlet Heart/Bu Bu Jin Xin - 2011
Maybe because I just rewatch it.
I hope you can juat give it a chance, 6 ep
It's about a modern girl soul that travel to Qing Dynasty and entangle in game of thrones to be next emperor.
It'a so romantic and left a deep impression in me. Also has gteat story about friendship, trust and a bit politic. It's characthee driven.
If you can adapt to 6 first ep, you may like it

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Bu Bu Jin Xin is one of my all time favorite Chinese shows. So I second this recommendation!

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Rewatching it actually make me love it more.
I really like their game of stare... a subtle hint and understanding without much talking.
The feeling is remain the same, the same scene always gets me.
Hah
hah I hope this can make more objective when watch the remke

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Yeah I'm the same, I liked it even more when I rewatched it the frst time. And I enjoy how you can alaways seen more layers when you watch it a lot, because you can focus on different things.

I am excited and scared for the remake :p however didn't they say that they based it on the novel and not the drama? I am hoping that might help it develop it's own run, but also be good. I mean there will always be comparisons made, but it would be good if they manage to get the story for the remake to keep the quality .

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@Marin
I hope the remake to be good storywise cause afaik, Goryeo era has 3 kings under the sane father and I never seen a group of prince talked at council in kdrama but I think king gwangjo actually reminds me of 4th prince

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The Disguiser was pretty good too - if you like more of Hu Ge.

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Cheese In the Trap ~ A relationship where one is always off balance isn’t healthy. Seol doesn’t know which way is up with Hae Jin which is especially dizzying on a relationship rollercoaster. In Ho, who you callin’ Dog Fur, you fuzy wuzzy mop of cuteness (shakes hand all over his wittle wovable furry head).

Moorim School ~ *spoiler alert rant* Drugging students under the premise of making them face their traumas? No. Wrong. So wrong. Kdrama derail fail. I so wanted a decent fantasy martial arts-y coming-of-age kdrama but I can’t support a figure of authority unilaterally drugging students (who were already smashed, but that’s beside the point) supposedly for the good. Can’t happen. This is classic “the end does not justify the means.” *end spoiler*

Shaolin Clenched Fists ~ problem disciple Joonghwan’s punishment aired for 7 episodes in a row now. Cause when you’re outta shape and don’t care at Shaolin boot camp, it shows. Other than that, I was impressed with ridge pole walking accomplishments. Iron fists training-ouch.

Remember – War of a Son ~ In Ah finding Jin Woo waiting for his dad at the old house has to be in the top 10 saddest, most heart-wrenching kdrama moments EVER. !gah! Jin Woo-ooo… …. Generational psychopath crooked rat Nam family, yeah, but I’m not sure Dong Ho isn’t one, too. Not to mention that I spend twice the time watching Remember because Seung Ho, you’re so distracting on the wide screen.

Radio Star with Joonyoung, Henry, Zico, Ryeowook - crazy idols in orbit!

Happy Friday! \/

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I always had a problem with the extreme top dog authoritarian sensei knows best.. but they drugged kids "for the kids' own good." I HATE people doing things to other people "for their own good." What gives the know-it-all teachers/senseis the right? Their age? Authority? Rank in the hierarchy? Aaaargh! So annoying!

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Watching K dramas:

CITT: In Ho gets along with Seol so effortlessly, hard not to want to ship those two as a couple.

OMHE: Haven't seen eps 3 or 4 yet, ok so far.

Glamorous Temptation: Guilty pleasure, lol, If I were an ahjumma this would be my #1 show.

Signal: Looking forward to this weeks episodes.

K movie :

Shadows in the Palace. Not bad , could have used a tweak here and there. Something to watch while waiting on subs.

C dramas:

Cuo Dian Yuan Yang : Finished . Zhao Li Yang is precious, lol

Probably start The Legend of Lu Zhen for my next fix of her.

Legend of Qin: Hanging in there @ Ep 32.

J drama:

Hitori Shizuka. Actually watched the 1st episode years ago, got back to it, short at 6 episodes, 1/2 way through. Looks like a cop's daughter Goes vigilante on various dirtbags. Is her dad one of them ?

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Am back with glamorous. One needs some senseless over the top makjang in one's week.

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Carole ~

This show is not disappointing as far as makjang goes. Now there's some deliberate hanky panky being played out so others can see, ( there's always someone lurking, creeping, stalking or photo taking, even from outerspace ! )

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john, for Jdramas - well movies...

Eien no 0
the one starring Okada Junichi
excellent watch about the so-called kamikaze pilots during WWII, humanizes their experience.

(been on an okada junichi run)
Library Wars and its sequel (waiting for the 3rd and final movie to post)
this one is funny, a fantasy/fiction story about book banning in the future (akin to Fahrenheit 451) but its a dramedy...

okada is super handsome (carole mcdonnell, wink) but he's rather short (5' 7"?) and the leading actress looks amazonian next to him - so there are jabs at him from the leading character, tho she is so adorable...

it's a fun watch...

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spazmo ~

I'm going to check out the Library Wars films, thank you for mentioning it.

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How many points do you think the Panthers will win the Superbowl by?

Cheese in the trap- I maintain my theory about Jung and I quite enjoy this drama.

Signal- I like this a lot though it leaves me with a question. Do things like this Gap Dong, and Memories of Murder do any good or do they just bring back painful memories to the families of victims in an almost 30 year old case that at this point is simply not going to be solved?

Neighborhood Hero- I admit I had reservations about Park Shi-hoo then I watched opening week, and while they're not completely gone I think I'll be able to shove them aside enough to watch it. My other reservation is Kwon Yuri's ability to hold her end up if a romantic line between her and Park Shi-hoo is started, I don't think so. That being said this is on OCN the only network you can count on not to force unnecessary love lines.

One More Happy Ending- This is cute. I know most people here tend to get second lead syndrome but I rarely do in fact I usually get the opposite in that I rarely like the second lead, glad to see that's not going to change here.

Moorim School- I like it still, I find it fun a word I don't usually use in relation to dramas. Personally in episode 6 which included a party as an exam the weirdest part to me was teacher Sam talking about moose that don't exist in Africa.

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Bong Joon-Ho's Memories of Murder is one of Korea's best or wait, it is the best!
It wasn't made to bring back painful memories for victims' families. In fact they co-operated with Bong during interviews because they know what he felt about the incompetent police department and mishandling of the investigation.

Memories of Murder is a masterpiece even praised by directors outside of Korea. David Fincher's Zodiac which came out later is often compared with respect to the far greater Memories of Murder.

Bong Joon Ho! I'm waiting for your next film.

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I love the movie too, not sure I'd call it the best, but just because the families participated doesnt mean it didnt bring up painful memories.

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I think I read somewhere that I was some drama or movie that really brought about the change in the statute of limitation law. Might be responsible for cold cases being handled seriously as well. So if art changes society, perhaps the families feel some justice in being heard and acknowledged. Maybe.

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Yeah, it's among Tarantino's top 20 films of all time, too. Which is pretty amazing, considering what a movie buff he is lol.

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The moose, that was odd, Sam, what are you talking about? But the Dean putting the plant in the alcohol to drug the students, whoa! Can't believe that's how the drama was written.

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Remember - Son's war - I loooooove
Moorim School - I looove
Madam Antoine - I love
Signal - I Looooove
Neighborhood Hero - I love
One More Happy Ending - I Love
Six Flying Dragons - I Looooove
Cheese in the Trap - I Looove

I actually love watching and reading the recaps of almost all the dramas airing right now.

Anyone who needs a recommendation for good dramas currently airing, i'll advise you watch some of these dramas and not just read comments about them before judging them.

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haha the more "os" the more luv ♥

I loove Remember
I love CITT, Madam Antoine, 6FD

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I looooove Remember too :) and feel kind of sad that it doesn't seem to be getting the love it deserves on OT. Guess CITT, Signal & OMHE are cannibalizing the time that people might have otherwise spent on watching Remember :(

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My first OT!! *after lurking for so long* Apologies for my English, It's my third language.

SPOILERS!!!!! for Chuno and Iris 2!!!!!!

I love Jang Hyuk after watching FTLY! Such a cracktastic drama...so I went and watch Iris 2 despite the criticisms and I didn't expect his character to die like that....so I went ahead and watched Chuno because I was told that was his best drama and performance to date, and it really is, but his character also died.

And then, I found out that was his 2nd drama with Lee Da Hae, with Iris 2 being the third. Their first was the drama titled Robbers. To those who've watched it, can you spoil the ending for me? And is it worth the watch?

On another note, Anyone else watched the Gilette commercial with Reply 1998's Junghwan and Dong Ryong? I found the storyline so hilarious and Ryu Jun Yeol voice??? Love!!!!

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Welcome!

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Welcome to OT! Luv Jang Hyuk, have you seen Thank You, an older kdrama? I liked him in that. I'm a rare fan of IRSI and IRIS 2 (mostly because I watched them with my brother and he liked the genre). I started The Merchang 2015 but I just couldn't keep up, plus it's historical setting which is not my favorite anyhoot.

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Currently watching...

Cheese in the Trap - Am I the only one who finds the drama boring? I think there are bits and pieces here and there that are kinda intriguing but in general it seems rather flat. KGE is really good in here though. The best thing about the drama is that it progresses at light speed. I think I read about 30 parts of the comic before watching and they practically covered all of them in 3 episodes. Now I wish I hadn't wasted my time. Plus there's the fact that I don't really like it. *sigh*

One More Happy Ending - I love the humour. JNR and JKH are giving fantastic performances here. I wish they have more scenes together since they have awesome chemistry. And I can't get myself to like the second lead for some reason.

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Hi all, currently the only drama I'm watching and will watch is 6 Flying Dragons. At first I was thrilled in that it's a reunion of much of the cast of Tree with Deep Roots and Queen Seondeok, with some alumni even contributing by making cameos. Next is to see 2 actors being cast in very bland roles of Shim Jongsu and Jung Inji in TWDR being given a chance to flex their theatrical flair here, even if they have to resort to eyeliner to get into characterisation ?

And since I'm now at ep 16 only, I couldn't get enough of the glorious lighting and colours of the autumn scenery.

And besides the excellent pacing and intelligent story telling, I love that the production team rook the effort to make the fight scenes look realistic. Characters have different fighting styles and use different weapons based on their background and training.

And last of all, this show is no glorified costume parade, where the female (contemporary dramas) and male (sageuks) leads prance around in front of the camera wearing a new outfit for every episode of the show. I couldn't help comparing it against The Three Musketeers, in which Lee Jinwook and Yang Donggeun seem to be holding a hanbok fashion show half the time, in gleaming new outfits with colour co-ordination that seems out of this world for either their times or mine.

Well, glad to have let off steam about one of my pet peeves of korean dramas.

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Hey all, so 2015 was not a good year for me KDrama-wise...especially since thewebsitethathshallnotbenamed took all TVN dramas!

So instead i binged on some korean movies which lead me to discover Lee Jung Jae! OMWord...that man in fine!!! and he can act!!! Just finished watching New World! That movie was so good... Got me on the edge of my seat the whole entire movie!!!! So now I downloaded Berlin File and The Thieves! M so excited to watch those!

But now m back in the kdrama hole as I am watching Its Okay, Its Love...and OMG i love it! I guess this is what tips me back into le kdrama world again. I just finished ep 4...and just to avoid spoilers for those that possibly wanna watch it...all i gotta say is holy shit! I cant wait to see how things progress!

My question to u guys is... if any of u have had a drama slump, what was the kdrama that brought you back?

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I always had Kdrama slump but it never really came back when I want it. Somehow I tried one drama and I fell for it. I am on the slump right now, one more happy ending strike me solely because of jung kyung ho. The most memorable drama that help me from slump is queen in hyeon's man and Kill me Heal me , both of that drama make me excited again. It's just about kdrama.
I never really had slump for drama I think, I just switched to watch J-Drama and C-drama or western series.
It's harder for me to get out of J-Drama than anything, I am at rest right now from JDrama cause I am waiting at least until half if get subbed, there:s so many Jdrama I planned to watch but I need to finish Love me if you dare first.
I think you can try watching another type of show then start watch Kdrama again without much prejudice.

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OMG ~

Some recent K dramas that helped

YooNa's Street
Heard It Through The Grapevine
AM1988

Ability to tell a story that doesn't feel like the writer used a "fill in the blank " guide to scriptwriting correspondence course advertised on a matchbook.

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My name is Jon G. and I approve this message ;)

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oh that's funny - I had just read both of you as being the same person...

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OMG ~

Forgot to ask. What sort of drama do you like? I try to keep a mix of K,C and J dramas. I try to keep a mix of romcom, action, mystery and history.

I think it's important to sample from different countries, otherwise I'd get tired of the same old thing.

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I had kdrama slumps in 2013 and 2014 and a mini-slump in 2015, and the dramas that ended them and made me feel like watching kdramas again are

- I Hear Your Voice (2013)
- Misaeng (2014)

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Recently watched Oh My Ghostess after a period of drama slump. Cute show with awesome cast.

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I think I fall for too many fictional slash real person chamr this week.
I watched One More Happy Ending and fall for jung kyung ho and the other guy
It is strange that Jung kyung always gets me with his act, maybe tye way he talks or saw audience with screen... it just wow.
I rewatch BBJX/scarlet heart , and keep feeling satisfied for no reason, I just like it and I felt hard for the prince, seriously, kinda like han mimoT.T, I guess my period is near
I also manage to watch palace:Locked heart , it's hillarious if you take it as funny and just don't think too much.
Lastly. I always watch masked singer.. I put my fate in all male contestant to take down cat girl, I love cat girl but I think she already pass the mark, still dissappointed tht farinelli lost.

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Cheese in the Trap is the only drama I'm into right now, and it's odd but I find it hard to verbalise exactly why I love it so much, on the recap.

I love that we've got two leads who actually feel like a new couple, nervousness, butterflies, being careful around each other and all (but not exaggerated drama-style 'he's a BOY!' kind of careful, just the normal kind that happens when you're getting to know someone better). Ironically, it's precisely their carefulness and new-couple feeling that has prevented me from boarding that Second Lead Ship, which is all about really high comfort levels between the two. I don't think the fact that Seol doesn't see In-ho in a romantic light is the reason why I can't ship them, it's just....there's no romantic chemistry from Seol's end at all, and I believe that's down to Kim Go-eun playing it in that specific way.

And the biggest topic - Jung's dark nature and tendency to plot and manipulate destruction, rather than speak up directly and ruin his image as a 'good' guy..... in a weird way, I can understand quite easily why he never speaks up for himself before the regular uni crowd, because I know quite a few people who are what some of us might register as 'two-faced' - they've been trained since birth to be "nice" to others and unfailingly polite, never openly show anger and never rock the boat, and as a consequence they'd rather invent excuses to get out of an engagement than directly saying they don't want to do it... basically, anything to avoid a confrontation.

Of course, these people were all women and Jung is rather more extreme in his reactions, but I think it's his detachment that unsettles so many people, not the fact that he is one way in (seeming) private and all good-guy facade with his peers.

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Cheese in the trap is an enigma at times indeed. I haven't had opertunity to watch the show, but been following the recaps, and Jung is both awesome and scary. From the recaps it does seem like more of a friendship with the second lead for me as well. The question lies in what Seol will do when confronted with Jung's dark side, and how he in turn will react to it.

I agree with you about your "two-faced" comment. Most of us can act that way at times. To a certain extent. Jung, however, is at times quite extreme. Especially because he uses his reputation to manipulate others or situations.

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do watch the show sometime - there's a tone to it that's hard to capture in writing, but it does feel oddly realistic in its depiction of the day-to-day stuff? Which makes it even scarier when things go crazy (or Jung goes dark).

And yeah, Jung really is quite extreme in his coldness - he thrills and unsettles me in equal measure, and I think that's the result of the drama actually acknowledging how disturbing he seems to be. If this was your average kdrama asshole 'I'm a poor misunderstood woobie who will be fixed by the love of a good girl, I just act like an ass because INNER PAIN!', I would not bother with Jung, but the show actually making Seol scared of him and on her guard at first, means I actually find him more interesting.

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(and god help me, I think Jung/Seol are really hot together, despite, well, everything)

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I don’t think the fact that Seol doesn’t see In-ho in a romantic light is the reason why I can’t ship them, it’s just….there’s no romantic chemistry from Seol’s end at all, and I believe that’s down to Kim Go-eun playing it in that specific way.

Oh yes! It's unreal how much chemistry Kim Go-eun can generate there without any romantic component.

Of course, these people were all women and Jung is rather more extreme in his reactions, but I think it’s his detachment that unsettles so many people, not the fact that he is one way in (seeming) private and all good-guy facade with his peers.

Everyone is "two-faced" somehow. Everyone adopts certain roles at certain times, mostly automatically.

I think you are right, the unsettling thing, the "uncanny valley" about Jung is that he shows no signs of conflict about his apparently deliberate and efficient role-switching.

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yeah, one person not seeing the other in a romantic light according to the story, doesn't mean the actors can't have more romantic chemistry (intentional or otherwise) than the ones playing the designated OTP. It's happened in several dramas, but I don't see it happening here. Jung/Seol, for all their carefulness/nervousness, DO have it in spades.

And Jung being so seemingly unemotional and next to impossible to ruffle, does add a lot to how nervous he makes the viewers. He's got his own reasoning behind his revenge, and in a different setting (say, a sageuk), people would be actively rooting for him, but the fact that a world with this kind of light-hearted feel contains someone like him, is kind of what causes us to read him as even darker.

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Cheese is really fascinating. I keep getting drawn into the discussions in the recap comments sections because of exactly these elements.

There are those who read Jung's interaction with many as a kind of detachment - he doesn't really care. Is he callous? Should he care, must he care? And then there are those who read nefarious intent, going so far to suggest he masterminds everything. I find it fascinating that when presented with the almost the same amount of information (drama or web), viewers are polarised in their reading of them.

I'm also intrigued by the whole notion of how Jung's actions are seen as more sinister because he seems not conflicted and too coldly efficient. In the comments section, someone had discussed the different levels of mea culpa for murder and how it is an accepted social machinery for us to forgive murder done in passion, than in cold-blood.

It makes me question why as I'd be just as horrified that if someone lost their rag and killed someone in a fit of rage - than if it were planned as revenge.

Anyway, Jung did confess to Seol once when she commented on how she was bothered when they had argued and how he hadn't seemed to be upset - and he said he was, but was just better at hiding it. I wonder if that's just how he would hide any internal conflict or doubt too.

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Exactly, it's the seeming detachment that freaks people out so much. I've seen other dramas where a sympathetic protagonist actually committed premeditated murder as revenge (Pinocchio's hyung) but got far more sympathy because they actually seemed like they were emotionally affected to some degree by what they did. While with Jung, I think there's a degree of genuine detachment from people who aren't 'his', coupled with his instinct to hide his real thoughts and feelings.

And you're right that people have very different interpretations, usually depending on their own perspective. The knee-jerk experience is to dismiss Jung as a cold-blooded future serial killer, but that's not a school of thought I subscribe to.

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Same here. I don't think of him in as a would-be serial killer nor feel the urge to label him with "sociopath," "psychopath" and whatnot.

I'm guessing people forgive with a showing of emotions more because it triggers their own sympathy or empathy, and thus they can identify and somehow that would make a killer who just bludgeoned someone to death, seem more humane. But I find that kind passion gone berserk, really frightening. That's no reasoning, no fail safe switch in a situation with someone in a rage.

In a similar though much less serious way, I guess many viewers like In-Ho because he seems to wear his heart on his sleeve. I don't think he's as honest as he's made out to be - I think there's a lot he doesn't say either, in the same way most people do, to show themselves in the best light. But perhaps that's why I found his web character quite annoying - bursts of shouting, kicking things etc. Sigh, it's like being with a fractious 5 year old.

I guess I sympathise with Jung more. Hiding one's emotions seems pretty standard in most social settings. Also, I'm a sucker for characters that have those sort of strategic thinking - something sexy about seeing the gears go in his brain.

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@pogo

The point about context is significant. Like you say, in a sageuk, a revenge plot is pretty normal. In a spy-thriller type film, we'd probably value physical and emotional efficiency over being a mess all over the place in an attack.

Perhaps then it's because we're conditioned to think of a university as being a convivial environment for friendship and education - but really, the show is portraying it as competitive and rough and tumble as a backstreet market. Maybe that's why I do see value in Jung being able to see through all the petty machinations, and swoop in for a KO move when needed.

@ Jon

Thanks for the explanation of the clinical descriptions. I guess I find this aspect "It’s the utter absence of a social conscience, of remorse, of a “natural” ability to submit to social rules instinctively." - not how I see Jung. I think of Jung has having a moral code of his own, which seems actually more in line with the student body world than our own world. In that world, I'm guessing Jung thinks it's fine to manipulate others as long as his goal is unselfish, or has a higher moral purposes, when viewed in contrast with the other shenanigans that go on.

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Perhaps then it’s because we’re conditioned to think of a university as being a convivial environment for friendship and education – but really, the show is portraying it as competitive and rough and tumble as a backstreet market. Maybe that’s why I do see value in Jung being able to see through all the petty machinations, and swoop in for a KO move when needed.

Yes. But! The show is not a campus thriller. The only character who "thinks" this way is Jung (and Seol in the first episode). And interestingly, many of the ugly events in the show are consequences of Jung's actions.

The campus life there is not that terrifying. Yes, sometimes it sucks from a personal perspective (Seol's group project disaster), and sometimes you are faced with people who exploit their social status (sunbaes, TAs, professors, rich people). But most of the time, we see students occupied with much more normal-lifey and light-hearted activities. Just look at Seol's friends and the other students.

Thanks for the explanation of the clinical descriptions. I guess I find this aspect “It’s the utter absence of a social conscience, of remorse, of a “natural” ability to submit to social rules instinctively.” – not how I see Jung. I think of Jung has having a moral code of his own, which seems actually more in line with the student body world than our own world.

He definitely has a moral code. But his moral code is rather different from the social rules that are in place. When Jung sets up YG and Joo-yeon to harass Seol, in his opinion, it is justice. Because she smirked at him. And even now when he is dating Seol, he still doesn't seem to feel any remorse about what he did to her back then.

As I said above, the campus world does not need you to be a magnificent bastard to survive. That's no "excuse" for his behaviour at all. (Not that he needs one anyway.)

In that world, I’m guessing Jung thinks it’s fine to manipulate others as long as his goal is unselfish, or has a higher moral purposes, when viewed in contrast with the other shenanigans that go on.

Well, we already know that I have a very different idea about how Jung works than you. I don't think that Jung tries to be unselfish, or that he needs to justify his manipulations to himself. I don't think he feels the (emotional) pressure to conform to those social or philosophical ideals at all.

I also don't think that Jung even notices the "shenanigans" as long as they don't concern him.

Now, he does feel like he is being used by other people. Especially because it seems difficult for him to understand the difference between mutual benefit and exploitation (which is a fine line).

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I'm also wondering if the detachment is a kind of self-protection. if you're surrounded by the likes of opportunistic and obnoxious Sang Chul, Jae Woo simmering with resentment, lots of girls acting cloying and even staff licking your boots - it's all hugely annoying and troublesome. It would seem helluva lot easier to just keep interactions on a superficial level than to get involved with them.

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I'm pretty sure Jung was this way before he went to university. From a psychological point of view, I'd make a bet that he was like that since he was a child. His position allowed him to find a way to get away with it though, and he had no incentive to use a different approach. He refined his methods and it worked really well.

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Yes, I think so too. Not sure if you've read the webtoon but there were some scenes that suggested he learnt to hide his feelings from an early age. (apologies, spoiler but will stop here). It must have been a coping mechanism since then, and to be frank, when surrounded with as many nut jobs as there seem to be on their campus, it's a pretty useful one.

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The hyung from Pinocchio was one of the most ridiculous characters for me. This guy is a remorseless sadistic killer and next episode he is the guy who gives moral advice to the protagonist (who is pretty much an saint). Without the smallest ironical refraction.

Jung, to me, is a person with a severe personality disorder, but he is not sadistic and he is not your typical psychopath. He has no issue in controlling himself, he is not particularly violent (quite the opposite compared to an average K-drama lead).

I would label him a "sociopath" (more precisely, a narcissist with anti-social personality disorder). But I don't think that makes him a bad person. (Then again, I grew up next to a psychiatric hospital and there are people with much worse mental issues who happen to be great people.)

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True, the turnaround for Hyung in Pinocchio was pretty drastic. At the time I was watching, I guess I got pretty swept up by the intense emotions of the dramatic narrative - when LJS's character said that his brother lost all ties to humanity when he thought he was dead too. I guess I accepted the premise that when Hyung found him, he regained his humanity and turned himself in.

Your take on Jung is interesting. I wonder about the labels of "sociopath" and "narcissistic' and 'anti-social" though. To what degree do people have to have the symptoms or traits, before they're labelled definitively? Also, I guess I associate "anti-social" with more delinquent behaviour such as vandalism, petty theft and assault.

If we use definitions such as these, then perhaps almost every person will show certain signs of this or that trait?

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same here, re: Pinocchio. Hyung was presented to us (and convincingly played, I give Yoon Kyun-sang credit for that) as a good person who did something terrible in the grip of grief and rage, and then repented for it. However ridiculous it may have looked on paper, I was another one who was swept up in the feelings there.

(and again, it ties back to context. Someone pointed out that hyung would fit perfectly into a revenge sageuk, no one would even blink an eye at his actions there, but the current setting makes that impossible. Likewise, Park Hae-jin's character in Bad Guys was actually a suspected (and possible) murderer but no one had problems with that because it made sense in that world. While CitT is, on the surface, a light romcom slice-of-life story so Jung even giving someone a cold look, seems worse than he actually is.

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Your take on Jung is interesting. I wonder about the labels of “sociopath” and “narcissistic’ and ‘anti-social” though. To what degree do people have to have the symptoms or traits, before they’re labelled definitively? Also, I guess I associate “anti-social” with more delinquent behaviour such as vandalism, petty theft and assault.

Well, these labels are difficult even in real life clinical psychology or psychiatry. Neither psychology nor medicine are hard sciences. Humans are just freaking complex and we have almost no idea about how they really work. (And here we are talking about a fictional, worse: K-drama character who are not even constrained to the limits of nature.)

The whole personality disorder complex is still not a very good model. There are many people with personality disorders that is more of a mixture of several of the "labels" but with key features missing. Then there are distinct subtypes of the labels with very typical profiles. From a science maturity model point of view, the whole thing is very far from being a good, usable model. But it's all we have right now.

One of the most common manifestations of ASPD is, in fact, the one that you mentioned: Thrill-seeking in combination with (social/personal) irresponsibility, sometimes also with sadism. (Result: petty crimes, violent crimes, etc.)
But there are other possible manifestations. People with ASPD often develop excellent skills in rationalising their actions and plans. If their impulse control works fine, this sometimes enables them to "respect" lawful and socially acceptable behaviour. (In fact, this is the only known way of treating ASPD successfully: Enhance impulse control, and help them to rationalise "normal" behaviour. The idea of "implanting" a conscience or a sense of remorse never works though.)

To me (I never did much Clinical Psychology), the core of ASPD is not so much violence and stuff. It's the utter absence of a social conscience, of remorse, of a "natural" ability to submit to social rules instinctively. That doesn't mean a person with ASPD cannot learn how to behave _like_ a normal person despite completely different inner processes. Many do that very well, some even better than "healthy" people (because they understand the rules better on a cognitive level and at the same time are always free to break the rules without any emotional conflict).

Violence, norm breaking, law breaking, lying and so on are all results of that disposition, but that depends on how the person with ASPD learns how to deal with it.

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Darn, got confused with which "reply" button to use.

Responses to this thread got posted as 28.3.1.1 instead.

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@Dramapanda - I'm not surprised people like drama In-ho, he's basically classic lead material - the wounded puppy who's just lost and heartbroken because he can't play his piano anymore, and that's why he acts like a giant loud ass. When he's been recalibrated for the drama, he makes for a textbook perfect contrast with Jung - on one side, the 'scary, manipulative potentially psycho' who has life on a plate in front of him and on the other the big endearing puppy who's struggling, he's pretty much designed to tug on people's heartstrings.

And if Jung had administered that beating in the grip of a visible rage (he's certainly angry, but the only sign of it is that he's beating up the stalker, not anything in his demeanour), I bet we wouldn't be seeing as much suspicion of him - because surely being mad at the guy who could have killed your girlfriend, is considered normal?

and I can absolutely buy that the detachment is a kind of self-protection for Jung, as you said. I've seen someone do it in real life - but it manifested differently since she wasn't perfect and distant like Jung, she was just spacey with most people, like Luna Lovegood levels of spacey. It's not that much of a stretch to guess why Jung might have that facade.

@Jon - I'm not very well-versed in psychiatric language, but Jung's coldness gives me similar vibes to the BBC's Sherlock - an alleged high-functioning sociopath, as per dialogue in that show. But as @Dramapanda says, if he's actually been more violent and shown emotion while doing so, people would be a lot more forgiving even when the end result is exactly the same.

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@Jon – I’m not very well-versed in psychiatric language, but Jung’s coldness gives me similar vibes to the BBC’s Sherlock – an alleged high-functioning sociopath, as per dialogue in that show. But as @Dramapanda says, if he’s actually been more violent and shown emotion while doing so, people would be a lot more forgiving even when the end result is exactly the same.

I doubt that. If he was more "physically impulsive" and more sadistic, that wouldn't do him any good in the eyes of the audience. Because in this case, he would lose control and retaliate violently a lot of times when it would be utterly inappropriate (even by K-drama standards), even in reaction to (in the eyes of normal people) tiny things. Just imagine he assaults Seol violently after she withdraws from the kiss at first. Not something to bond with the audience over I think.

But I know what you're aiming at. Impulsive, emotionally charged violence is usually a positive trait (for K-drama heroes). A lot of people loved when Jung beat the thief to pulp. And he showed some emotions there too. Sure, those were emotions because the thief attacked Jung's ego and not because his girlfriend was attacked, but let's not be picky.

The importance about violence is, I think, that it is based on "relatability". The audience must share the moral code of the person who uses violence (or at least must think that they do). The best scenario is: "Yeah, I would want to beat this person up too if I were him. But I wouldn't because I'm a coward."

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@pogo
Your depiction of the real life example is interesting. I guess that's a way to disengage or remain detached. I think I've done it on occasion too - usually in a scenario where I'm with several people who are bitching about someone else, and the expected thing is for everyone to pitch in and agree. In those situations where one can't step away and yet am loathe to start a scene, it's been best to disconnect a bit.

@Jon
The 'relatability' element seems the most key, to whether the character is liked or trusted. I guess Jung feels already remote to most, with his wealth, intelligence and social capital. His detachment and ability to hide his emotions makes me inscrutable - and I guess that feels unnerving to those around him. People feel more comfortable with those on whom they can get a read.

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@Dramapanda - the thing was, this person was actually a little spaced-out/dreamy even normally, but when faced with people she didn't care for, she'd just dial it up to 100. She later told me she'd been picked on a lot in school, and even though it wasn't explicitly stated, I can easily imagine the 'not all there' facade was a sort of defence mechanism to get people to leave her alone/not bother with her.

And Jung's seeming remoteness/lack of readability unnerves people, because (as their thinking goes), you don't know what he'll do next, if he's crossed. I can predict In-ho's reaction (explode in violence/offer comfort/do something that's narratively sympathetic), but Jung's, not so much. That unpredictability is a huge part of what removes this from your average romance drama, Jung just doesn't follow the pattern.

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Bang on. Its the detachment that ppl find scary. In-ho beating up the stalker for grabbing seol's hand and dragging her did not make ppl uncomfortable. But it was jung's absolute cold, emotionless and utterly ruthless beating that unnerved seol (and by extension the viewers as the narrative is largely from her POV)

.... I adore in-ho and seol's scenes but somehow it does not have me rooting for them. In another romcom, they would be my OTP but in this universe, no. chemistry perhaps ? or perhaps bec they behave like they have been friends for years.

with jung, it feels more real - You like a person, but you don't know them well, constantly second guessing yourself, being all awkward and klutzy around them

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I know what you mean, in another drama In-ho and Seol would make an adorable OTP but not in this story. I had my doubts about how Park Hae-jin and Kim Go-eun would look together, but let's just say they have been very comprehensively dispelled.

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Wow, I love what you said!! So much in agreement!! And because of Jung's disposition, I honestly won't be surprised if it turned out that he was actually saying the truth about In Ho's hand accident - that Jung really didn't have anything to do with it. But going on what we know of him, maybe he just got tired of defending himself and just let go, of that incident and his relationship with In Ho.

If anything, I like seeing how opinions here are formed based on the things presented in this drama. As we've seen in previous episodes (Sang Chul's reporting incident, Seoul's changed schedule, homeless man incident), like Seol, we, as an audience aren't privy to the entire truth. Maybe it is also teaching us a lesson in being too quick to judge? Heh.

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Happy Friday guys!
I am late to the party (as normal since I got a full time job). anyways god it's been a long week over here. The weather has been all over the place, the busses have been even later than normal.

Any interesting plans for the weekend? Mine is to move properly into my new (tiny and expensive) rented flat! Yay no longer staying with the parents. Bring back the student diet of oatmeal and cabbage! (that's what I get for living in a town that's ridiculously expensive to buy or rent a home in).

However, the move also mean that I might not have internet for a while. No dramas... not sure how I will cope! On the other hand, reading books it is then :p

Kdrama toddler stories will continue When I return with internet :p Mainly cause I forgot my notes at work and can't remember them... xDD

Dramaland:
Wild Heroes: cute drama, what happens when delinquents grow up? (clue, they don't necessarily change that much)

Reply 1988: I was happy with the endgame being Taek. I didn't expect it at first due to the way the husband acted (not to say that people doesn't change, but in a drama setting personalities tend to be more set with less development than real life a lot of the times). I did see a lot of hade being laid on deok-soo for it though which confuses me.

I mean had Junghwan actually acted then he would have had all the chance of getting the girl. He didn't, and while we knew his feelings, she didn't. Taek on the other hand did take a chance in the end and won out.

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re: Reply 1988 - I was THRILLED when I realised Taek was the endgame, because I'd been silently rooting for it ever since the photograph moment in episode 9. And I rooted for it even harder because Deok-sun wasn't led by the nose into a crush on him, the way she was with Jung-hwan and Sun-woo - her feelings for Taek started from the two of them, they don't need outside urging.

But yes, I'd assumed the husband was Jung-hwan, because of how the 2016 husband initially acted. That personality only fit Jung-hwan or Sun-woo, and once we find out Sun-woo liked Bora and not Deok-sun, that left just Jung-hwan with the most screen time and the 2016 personality, at least initially. That didn't even seem remotely close to Taek!

The 2016 husband acting like Jung-hwan was a directorial flaw that left a lot of people feeling cheated in the end, but I think Deok-sun/Taek worked better. A lot of why people got angry about Jung-hwan not being the husband, is because kdramas have conditioned us to expect that a person who has a certain kind of nature and a certain amount of prominence in the narrative, must be the male lead and get the girl. But 1988 bucked that formula and went with the results of the characters' actions instead of the expectations attached to the boys' tropes.

I'd initially thought Jung-hwan must be the husband because he was Yoon-jae mk. II, but at least Yoon-jae confessed. And that's how 1988 ended up becoming the story of a failed first love, which I'd initially thought 1997 might be.

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Pogo: Yeah me too, I wouldn't have minded either way for the husband, but damn Taek deserved it. I completely agree on the relationship being from only the two of them, and not her being lead into it by anyone else. That has a lot to say for it. I also feel like this makes the drama more realistic as well.

I mean, you still have the first love in Sun-Woo and Taek. But reality is often that your first crush isn't the one you end up in, nor might even have a relationship with. Certainly for the female lead it's not first love with the husband though it seems like it was that way for him.

Yeah the actions of the characters really determined it for me. junhwan didn't confess or make any obvious, to deok-sun, advances or hints towards her. And yes we did get the awkward strek where both boys put each other over themselves for the love. However, in the end Taek did act, while Junghwan didn't.

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yeah, the huge difference was that Taek grabbed with both hands onto the opening Deok-sun gave him with that 'it'd be awkward, but....'. While Jung-hwan, faced with far more blatant hints from Deok-sun that she liked him, ignored them/acted according to his own contrary streak.

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my guess is the husband was deliberately acting like Jung hwan because first of all, friends become similar in time, second, remember Deok Sun teaching rude speech and cursing to Taek? If he had those traits in his personality, it makes sense to me. that´s how his friends "raised" him. Plus, he and Jung Hwan were really close and even closer once the matters of love were settled. I, for one, have adopted a lot of traits from my friends so deeply that I dont know which ones are original and which are borrowed, it seems I have always behaved that way. and honestly Taek could be very outspoken at times. he had none of the hesitation Jung Hwan had. so being open and painfully honest was natural. Jung Hwan rather said the opposite of what he meant.

BUT I also thought the husband would be Jung hwan. Well, I was afraid he would be, even though my gut feeling said Taek, but I was shaken by all the fans being so dead set like they knew something I didnt so I thought perhaps it is a secret deal of sorts, even if it doesnt make sense story-wise, cause taek was getting all the development.
I guess I am not so un-stirred by other people as I thought.

I am glad the fans´ outrage has died out a little cause that was too much (going as far as threatening to slash the writers throat? hello people! )

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The thing is, I don't think Taek would completely change his personality as an adult - at 24, he still has the same personality as he did when he was 18, and why would he change it to be like Jung-hwan or any of the others after that? (and why Jung-hwan, since they were all close but the one Taek was closest to was Sun-woo - who by then was his actual bro!). The interviews and adult casting/the way those segments were directed, were a fail in general.

The fan outrage was a bit much, really. It's like they forgot the husband hunt wasn't the sole focus of the story.

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I didnt mean change completely but adopt a few things from each friend. here and there.

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yeah, but to the point where he doesn't even seem like his younger self anymore, in 2016?

I saw a far more convincing argument for Taek being influenced by Sun-woo, in the change we saw in him between 1989 and 1994 - they're a little similar in the ways they speak up to Deok-sun and Bora. But considering the gang were meeting far less frequently even in 1994, I don't think there's much room for Taek to do much changing to the point we saw in 2016.

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I understand much more why people feel betrayed this time than last time, even if I was wholeheartedly on team Taek since like episode 4. While it's true that Deok-seon ending up with Taek was a triumph for anyone looking for an organic, unforced, believable love line, the PD/writer deliberately manipulated their audience for half the drama with all the DS/JH fanservice/OTP bait, knowing full well they were conditioned to look for certain clichés and patterns. I would have a lot less sympathy if they were willing to abandon such patterns entirely, as opposed to using them to mess with us. The point is there was no thematic build up--they just dropped a couple anvils on our heads way too late and walked away lol.

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@ juniper

"if they were willing to abandon such patterns entirely, as opposed to using them to mess with us. The point is there was no thematic build up–they just dropped a couple anvils on our heads way too late and walked away"...

... is what I feel that taints my liking for this show. I still like it, but I do not like the lack of respect and sense of fair play that should have come with good natured teasing. Let the viewer play along fair and square without so much misdirection, is what I feel.

I don't think viewers mind being teased a little as in when we watch a magic show... it can be fun... but to deliberately deceive with the opposite clues is not fair and takes away the joy of following the show and all it's little moments.

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@juniper - I do understand why people might feel betrayed, because even I thought the baiting was unfair (and they were baiting, that was deliberate as it was with the previous two Answer Me installments). But some of the fan rage is really excessive, especially over Jung-hwan's confession and the supposed lack of development for Deok-sun/Taek (we did have a fair bit, it just wasn't done according to accepted kdrama patterns).

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@Growingbeautifully

Yeah, that's what drives me nuts about this team. They don't trust their audience--they try to trick us. This installment was especially bad--no matter how small a development, they always followed the same pattern: mislead us into expecting the expected by withholding crucial information, and then subvert expectations and try to wring some tears out of us. This happened with everything from the main love triangle, to episodic subplots (just one example--that one time we see Deok-seon get "scolded" by her seatmate's mom...only to discover she was a nice lady concerned about her daughter's epilepsy).

@Pogo. Yeah, I can understand where you're coming from. It's funny, because I actually thought Jung-hwan's confession was one of the best JH/DS moments there was--and it was one of the only moments where the writers were being honest with us. I wish there had been more moments like that one. But I guess if people had their hearts set on JH/DS and were waiting for a last minute reversal, I can see how him going "lol psych!" at the end would have made them blow their stack.

I also agree that Taek/Deok-seon was developed and honestly it was one of the few things I enjoyed about the show, watching two people enjoy spending time together, doing things for each other, getting closer and seeing each other in new lights...without all the frantic ballad spamming or emotional dishonesty that usually ruins trendy romances. They didn't feel like an OTP--they felt like a real couple.

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to all

but it is their liberty, it is their drama, and I see nothing wrong in tricking viewers. maybe I have other principles. In imaginary world, you can do whatever. besides they didnt trick the viewers. the viwers tricked themselves and added imaginary scenarios to the plot, then taking those for granted. Writers don´t have any debt to the viwers to oblige by their wishful thinking. mainly some fans delusion was what tricked others. I hated thinking Taekie wouldn´t even have a happy ending, not to mention be together with Deok Sun. the fans´ propaganda got me. I even feared the worst. It was not the writers doing. well, I dont blame anyone but myself, for falling under the influence of other peoples´ beliefs. That will never happen again.

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RE: 1988, YES YES. All of this especially about Jung Hwan's character arc. I feel so bad for Hyeri since I've been reading her interviews, and someone actually posted it upthread. She says that if she knew who the husband is intially, then she would have expressed better in the earlier episode so as not to confuse the viewers, because she herself did not know until episode 16. Partly it is a directorial flaw but to me, but remember that its par the course with a show that have a husband mystery as its main plot, so everything was purposely vague. Knowing these writers are trolls, I just didn't want to figure out who the husband is since I was so, SO Chilbonged from the last time.

But like you I fell in love with Taekie on their trip to China. And started to notice his moony eyes on Deok-sun since then but making sure that he show it in his own way. And just like you I just assumed it was Jung-hwan just because of the future scenes, and I'm going to go with that and was going to be okay with it. I actually thought that Taekie was a template of Chilbong and perhaps shades of Joon Hee from 1997 which probably explained my attachment to his character.

The irony is, this Reply series is the least focused on the husband hunting mystery yet it feels more controversial. I can't wait for the Park Bo Gum interviews when he comes back from their trip to Africa, and hear his POV. Read somewhere that he will have about 100 interviews waiting for him. Poor T̶a̶e̶k̶i̶e̶ Bogummie. :)

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In 1994, I knew oppa was the husband, simply because Na-jung loved him from Day 1 and had eyes for no one else among the boys. But the drama trolled us and dragged it out, which really annoyed me.

Here, I guessed it was Jung-hwan because he ticked off all the male lead boxes, Kim Joo-hyuk acted like him, and - I thought this was the clincher - Deok-sun liked him first, and he knew or could guess at that. But then he never said anything, Deok-sun gave up and moved on and for some reason he never confessed even in the 5 years that passed between 1989 and 1994 (as I noted last week, this wasn't like Shi-won and Yoon-jae's estrangement in 1997, they were still in touch). I read Hyeri's interview, and she said exactly what the Taek shippers have been saying for a while now.... and while it could have been better executed, it was the thing that was most appropriate/made the most sense

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"In 1994, I knew oppa was the husband, simply because Na-jung loved him from Day 1 and had eyes for no one else among the boys. But the drama trolled us and dragged it out, which really annoyed me. " - it's funny because to me, this was the very thing that gave me hope that Chilbong could still be the husband. Since Na-jung and Oppa went thru the motions of growing up and doing their own thing and after their breakup, maybe Na-jung would give Chilbongie a chance, but no. My head said Oppa-yah but heart is all Chilbong lol. But in the end it was Na-jung's choice and it's always been Oppa.

Contrast that with Deok-sun, who was the middle insecure child who was craving for attention to whomever offered it. Thanks to Dong-ryong, who said that she is free to like who she wants without waiting for that person to like her back. Sun-woo and Jung-hwan were vessels to understand and to finally that she does care about Taekie, probably a bit more than she realizes.

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@pogo

"Deok-sun liked him first, and he knew or could guess at that." i think jh saying in his confession that they met accidentally on the bus suggests that he never knew that ds liked him back?

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He didn't know Deok-sun was waiting for him at the bus stop, but I said he could guess because she gave him some pretty blatant hints - notably, asking him whether she should go on the blind date and asking him to go to the concert together.

Ultimately, I think that's what hurts their fans the most - Jung-hwan/Deok-sun is a story of what could have been. But he doesn't even throw her a bone beyond the blind date veto and then both he and Taek hold back on confessing for each other's sake, until Taek seizes the day at that hotel room in Beijing.

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Hey there!
Got your email. Am slowly answering it.
Get internet soon!

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Carole:
Glad to hear this one arrived! ^^
Yeah hoping internet won't take to long to fix. I have the router just needs so cables and a box from the provider of the landlords so I can connect to it.

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Manin -

Don't know if you'll read this, but best of luck on the move this weekend!

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I had a bit of a dry spell so now I'm on a serious rebound and watching everything except Flying Dragons!

Remember - I find this show very hard to take so I'm binging it in chunks. I'm a few episodes behind but it's likely I'll do 4 this weekend. I like the actors but the storyline is just depressing and Namgoong Min's character is just disgusting (and I adore him so it's really tough). I will say I'm a bit let down by Park Minyong's acting/character in this, but I think the issue is the character just isn't as good as the one she had in Healer.

Cheese in the Trap - I'm still very intrigued by the whole thing even though I keep wanting to yell GURL YOU IN DANGER every three scenes. It has a bit of that "It's Ok That's Love" oncoming trainwreck feel to it, but it's also got great ensemble action.

One More Happy Ending - I looove this show it had me in stitches and I even watched episode 3 raw and then rewatched it subtitled. I just couldn't wait.

Neighborhood Hero - I liked the first 2 episodes well enough but I'm waiting to see how the show balances out after a few more have aired. The mix of comedy and gritty action feels a tad wobbly still and episode 2 ended with a dark twist.

Signal - similarly to Hero, I want to see a few more episodes before I make a firm decision. I'm unsure how they're going to play out the time/change angle. If the logic/premise is not done well it'll bother me a lot (like how in Mi Rae's choice they went for a perfectly valid explanation and then bungled how that time travel theory works). Nobody in the cast has any special appeal to me so the story has to work without excuses.

Moorim School - Oh lol. And at first I thought it was going to stay at a higher quality level than the TV version of Shadowhunters. The thing is, these eps get subbed on Mon/Tue and there's not much else new on the services, so I'll keep watching it and mentally critiquing the cheapness while playing games on my phone and not paying too close attention.

Madame Antoine - I like Han Ye Seul a lot after Birth of a Beauty and I really want her to do well, but I have problems with this show. Big problems. Sung Joon is really not my favorite actor at this point and his character is ... he's not just unlikeable because almost all leads start that way and suddenly change. He's BORING and that's pretty fatal. I really just want to see her screwing with him at this point (ep 3 - I am waiting for it pretty seriously). Now, I do like Jin Woo but his character doesn't have enough personality to cause SLS (unlike his character in Marriage Not Dating who I wanted to ship with BOTH the leads in a bisexual 3-way) so unless they adapt the script to push him forward I see this show fizzling fast. The wildly inaccurate psychology basis of the experiment is problematic and I am wondering if this might not have been better as a web series.

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Had to continue! A few comments on web series too:

High End Crush - I knocked this one off last week in 2 binges despite all the other shows. Jung Ill Woo was fine but the web serial structure made it feel very choppy (a typical problem). Even though they had more money for production than Noble My Love (which obviously had some scenes filmed at a hotel meeting room instead of a corporate office, and I suspect someone on the cast's home may have been the house they lived in), NML ended up working a lot better and I'm still not sure why.

Because it's the First Time - despite the glory of Minho's abs, I didn't finish this. I think I got 2/3 of the way thru the web series. Did anyone finish it and what do you think? I was watching it as filler and I just couldn't sustain my interest.

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Been meaning to watch High End Crush coz I seriously loooooooooove Jung Il Woo.

Also loooooooooooooooooooooooove Namgoong Min. Man oh man, he plays shamed son so well!!!!

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I only managed Episode 1 plus bits of other episodes of High-End Crush. I could not feel with the characters or care... it might have had something to do with the main female lead. In the end among Web Dramas, the ones I feel I can recommend (almost without reservation), are in order of preference:

- One Sunny Day (simple and to the point and it works!)

- EXO Next Door (fun and easygoing... and D.O. is good to watch)

- Dr Ian (basically doctor heal thyself, satisfying although Sandara Park does not inspire me)

- Be Arrogant (sisterhood in the midst of lurve triangulation ... interesting)

- Noble My Love (arrogant, irritating male lead but it pans out ok... just wished female lead remained strong when in lurve as much as she was before.)

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I just finished Because It's The First Time recently and I thought it was pretty good. I loved it that the friendship is so strong among them.
I won't mind having a few more episodes though, just to see more of what they will become as grown ups.

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Re. Park Min Young, watch ep 13 - she's given a bit more material to work with there. Agree though she hasn't been given much to work on throughout this drama. Liked Park Min Young in Sungkyungkwan Scandal and Healer but not so much in City Hunter (she was too Candy there) and she's ok in Remember too. Fear that she's being typecast though - her last 3 roles have had her playing similar characters albeit she does it well.
As for Nam Goong Min, think he'll be typecast as a villain going forward but who can blame directors when he does such a great job of being evil.

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Agree. She totally turned it out in ep 13 when they gave her better material. She needs to pick a drama where her character is actually the focus next I think. I would love to see her do something where she's a detective or an undercover cop or something like that.

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Totally enjoying Six Flying Dragons (ok, except for the mom and her odd group).

The Merchant is trying my patience: Chun Bong Sam and Jo So-Sa act dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to totally evil Mae-Wol. Beyond tiresome! Hopefully the last 10 episodes will redeem this show for me...it's had some really good parts, but others that defy sanity.

Remember is wonderful, enjoying the revenge! Also watching CITT and Signal.

Has anyone watched C-drama "Legend of Zhen Huan"...full version?

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Islander_58North ~

Yes, I've watched all 76 episodes , ( see post 18.1).

If C palace dramas appeal to you, that one is hard to beat, imho.

Sun Li does an excellent job as Zhen Huan.

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Hi Beanies,
I've missed you. And I've missed watching some good K-drama. We're dealing with some serious health problems in our household and that means a lot of doctor appts and worry.

I'm watching:

All About My Mom--Working on it, so I have to watch it. But actually, I like it. The relationships seem realistic and the characters too. These next few episodes with the Mom dying are going to be rough. Of course, the Big C is needed so all the other characters can put aside their selfishness and focus on what is important in life.

Remember--Watching it, but it's not my crack. In fact, I find I watch a half an episode at a time because the dialog is so intense. I am so sick of that bad guy Nam Gyoo-man fake cracking his neck. And at first I thought his assistant would be helpful out of hatred for his boss, but now I don't think so. I think he actually killed the singer/student, that she was still alive and he finished her off.

One More Happy Ending--Despite the cast, I may have to drop this one. I need me some strong women, not ones constantly on the prowl for a man.

We Got Married--Still obsessed with the Ohye couple. The new puppy is the cutest thing ever. But what happens when the fake relationship ends? Who takes the puppy? (And don't tell me it's not fake, cause it is.)

That's it for K-drama. Otherwise it's Golden State Warriors in this household (and has been for 25 years--we are Authentic Fans). Whenever I'm sad, I just watch some Stephen Curry highlights, and then I'm good again. Thankful for his commitment to entertainment.

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@ktiep - whatever the reason for the doctor visits was, I hope it gets better.

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Thanks @pogo. Will post the story when we know more, because there is a cautionary tale in there.

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Hey there!
So you're ready for the death of Best Mom Ever 2015/2016? Alas, i'm wondering if she was right about the kind of wife who would be good for petted spoiled older son.

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I hate the spoiled son's wife. Why would he want to marry a victim personality? No wonder ex-husband went crazy.

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Son has two episode to realize mom is dying. I wonder if this will be one of those shows where he doesn't realize until it's too late and she's on her death bed. No real time to connect and then he has to process his grief after mom's death.

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Carole,

There are 54 episodes, so he has 6 more to redeem himself.

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AH!!!! Thanks!

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Yes, I don't really understand why Hyeong Gyu likes her. She talks with a pout, aegyo-babyish voice which I do not find cute at all.
That said, the characters in All About My Mom are pretty trying. Even Jin Ae has turned into a bossy, interfering know-it-all. Only one I still like is Chaeri and we should thank Jo Boa for her potrayal of her. It would've been all too easy for Chaeri to slip into being the most annoying one of all and it's all thanks to Jo Boa that it hasn't deteriorated to that. Mom and Hyeong Gyu are well acted too.

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Totally agree.

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Oh ye couple always tease my sanity to stay neutral but every time I watched, I feel like they should just marriage, then my scripted sense told me they maybe just compatible or being nice

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The more I watch them, the more I think they are just good friends and being nice to each other (as opposed to some of the other couples). She is too much for him to handle, IMO. He has said as much in interviews.

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Re. Remember Seo Bum, don't think he killed her. In the earlier episodes when he found the body, he was horrified and pulled out his cellphone to call for an ambulance arguing that she might still be alive but Nam Gyu Man stopped him. Seo Bum does seem to have a conscience - he's just blinded by money?

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Can anyone help with some recommendations ? On my playlist are currently all dark, gritty, crime dramas ... I am looking for some happy, romantic dramas to sort of take a break

But the problem is that i have watched pretty much most of top romcoms recommendations of the past 3-4 years.

Can anyone suggest any good k/ C/ J dramas ? Though i prefer korean to C/ J. Somehow Korean 'sounds' nice to me even though i understand like 20 words of it.

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I would recommend the Taiwanese drama BROMANCE. It's a gender-bender romcom. Very feel good, skips over bad news and can be pretty cheesy. If after three episodes you still don't like it, by all means, drop it!

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nope. dont watch that. ever. it is so corny, I was curious what the fuss was about but it makes me throw up.

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It's terrible and absolutely cringe worthy. And, yet, I still kind of enjoy it. I can't tell you why. I just don't take it at all seriously.

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Thank you ... I did watch 2 episodes of bromance but gah! it had me cringing ... Though i believe its one of the runaway success of the year but it just didn't work for me

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bips99 ~

Two older K dramas,

Sweet18: Han Ji Hye, Lee Dong Gun and Lee Da Hae

Soulmate:Shin Dong Wook, Lee Soo Kyung

Recent J drama:

Date: Anne, Hasegawa Hiroki

Thai: Full House

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Thanks, i'll check them out. I'm actually pretty new to kdramas. so i have mostly seen the recent ones that feature on top 10-15 lists.

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Did you watch Heart to Heart? I don't think it was recommended a lot when it came out last year. I just heard of it recently and watched it and really, really enjoyed it.

Korean also 'sounds' much nicer to me. I have a harder time watching other asian dramas.

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No I haven't heard about it. I'll add it to my watchlist. Thank you.

I did try Taiwanese and Chinese, But the language sounds all wrong to my ears. Korean sounds ....... warm.

Though my friends say if i watch like 5 shows, i'll get used to them. So i'm willing to give it another try

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Korean : you're beautiful, coffee prince, EXO Next Door (just for light watch), boarding house number 24 (2014, maybe ypu haven't watch it),

Japanese : 5 to 9, Okitegami kyoko (this is detective genre but cute), himitsu no hanazono, Soratobu kouhoshitsu, Love Shuffle, Manhattan Love Story (this one is epic fun and funny if you can adjust the flow, Jdrama has diff flow in geberal), hana kimi

CH-TW : in a good way, fall in love with me (this is kinda shallow imo but it doesn't consume to much brain and heart),

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Thanks a ton for so many recs. esp the J/C/T. I was not sure about which ones to check out. Out of the korean ones i haven't seen boarding house.

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late but do try the following kdramas, they more or less fit the bill

- Sassy Go Go (if you have any tolerance for high school dramas, watch this one - it's rather more friendship-focused than romance-focused, but it's quite possibly the best high school drama I've seen since 2012)

- Twenty Years Old (this one is a web drama so it's only 80 minutes long, but really charming and full of warm fuzz)

- Oh My Ghostess

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oh, and since you mention you're new to kdramas, here are some great older ones:-

- Answer Me 1997 (aka Reply 1997) - 2012

- Queen In-hyun's Man - 2012

- You From Another Star (2013) - though this is iconic, and you may have watched it already. The Producers

maybe also try some web dramas/drama specials, Splish Splash Love was fantastic and the chemistry between the leads there was the best I've seen in a while.

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^^^ Thank you for so many reccs. I have not seen some of them. I have been thinking of checking out some web dramas. They seem all the rage these days. I have just seem high end crush which was cute fluff

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High End Crush was just plain fluff lol, good if you like Jung Il-woo.

If you fancy web dramas, here are a few that I think were at least watchable fluff - Be Arrogant (Dodohara), EXO Next Door, Because It's the First Time, and One Sunny Day. Oh, and Imaginary Cat.

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Pinocchio is cute, as well. And Kiss Me Thai

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Seen pinnochio (I can just stare at LJS all day long! Ah! why so pretty!). Will look up the other. Thanks

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if you liked Pinocchio, do watch I Hear Your Voice! It's LJS' previous project with that writer+PD, it's the role that made him a major star.

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Hello, for weeks I haven't been able to finish any drama (except Reply 1988) because I was too engrossed watching and re-watching the Taiwanese drama BROMANCE. Besides the main show on Sunday night, there are also BTS, Showbiz, and mid-week previews to help us through the week. In order to show their love for the drama, fans have embarked on a Valentine project. This project consists of a compilation of letters written in different languages from around the world. So far, fans from more than 50 countries have responded. If you love this drama and wish to know how to send Baron Chen, Megan Lai or the Bromance crew a St Valentine's message, please go to page 201 of the Bromance thread at Soompi for details.

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The details of this project are now here: http://bromancefansproject.blogspot.com/

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And finally, my Misaeng marathon begins......

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Have fun!

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(And tissues. And bathroom breaks to let off steam.)

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So far, loving it... such fascinating character studies. The office is a perfect set up to look at different types of people from different backgrounds and with different ambitions.

I'm rooting for Geu Rae. He's like a fresh-faced little sprout...come on, grow bro, grow!

Also love how smart Young Yi is. And Chief Oh and Assistant Manager Kim are already gruff sweethearts.

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I put it on hold after 5 episodes a year ago, and still haven't returned to it. I found it very bleak and depressing.

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@Anna

I can see why you might feel that way. It's a little world of this corporation, and all their squabbles from day in to day out seem to petty and self-serving. And it just creeps in this petty pace tomorrow, tomorrow and tomorrow...

Once i got sunk it though - I find myself exhilarated by the small things too. Like Chief Oh sticking out his foot and tripping Seok Yool - oh I did laugh, schadenfraude and all. Oh when Chief Oh got drunk and first referred to Geu Rae as "our kid". Oh bless his little socks, he then went and wrote an earnest, cringeworthy email... Oh when Geu Rae managed to stay his own for his intern presentation and managed to shut Seok Yool up. I guess in this world, the seemingly little things become disaster or victory in the course of a day!

Anyway, that's my take on it... I'm loving the fantastic performances.

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yay!

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I can't go through all that heartache again, thus this is one show I cannot re-watch, except for the happy parts, maybe! Oh the emotional turmoil it put me through!!! :D

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Ah, I'm almost jealous of you, getting to watch it for the first time!

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Just gotta shout out how much I love this show! Amazing characters, and fantastic writing. I'm seriously doing fist-pumps and yelps when they have their little victories.

And so moving too, the way they start to bond, and I LOVE Chief Oh. He may be middle-aged, have dark circled eye bags and a paunch - but he's adorable!

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Gosh I really wish I watched this with you folks, to be able to discuss it and squee over it with you guys. I'm just making up for it and coming in here to gush about it.

On paper, Misaeng sounded really dry. But now I'm up to Ep18, I can totally see what it swept the awards. It manages to find the human conflicts in the mundane everyday life, and given us a cast of rounded out characters to get to know.

The entire Sales Team 3 - what a fantastic team. I love love love Chief Oh. And also loyal Dong Shik and even Chief Chun was won over again.

The newbie F4 - it's so interesting to watch how they develop, and imagine how the each layer of hierarchy were also once newbies who came in and moved up. Really love Kang Sora here - I think I watched in something else and she was just so-so, but here, she really shines. Actually, all the actors are fantastic here. Byun Yo-han -I met him through SFD so am in awe that here, he's a completely different personality.

Love the layering of baduk as a life strategy with office politics too.

Tiny crush on Manager Kang, though he'd be a nightmare of a boyfriend. He's just so "neat" and proper, one would always be tempted to keep messing him up.

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Is here anyone who finds the doctor not attractive at all? He is mega creepy imho.

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oh, wrong thread, was talking about "One More Happy Ending"(

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Yay for Friday! Lol late yet again.

I'm still not over Reply. But I'm hanging in there. I'd love to rewatch all of it but it's too soon for that. I miss Ssangmundong terribly. T.T

So I'm watching Bad Guys which is badass. Team mad dogs make go crazy! I like it but there's something missing. I don't think it's the show though. '88 left a hole in my heart. I blame Ssangmundong. Sigh. I'm glad I can listen to its wonderful music.

I would love to start watching Cheese but two mysterious Park Hae Jin's might be too much for me to take.

And it's such a pain being a secret k-drama fan(though it's more of an open secret). These past few days, my friends have been talking about dramas quite a lot and raving about She Was Pretty and Park Seo Joon. I'm tempted to out myself(officially as screenshot on my phone were seen lol). But I definitely don't want to give up this (kinda)secret land. It's that feeling when you want that underrated band you like to be known by more people but want them all to yourself(with the not so large fanbase). Dramaland is one of my hiding places. The place I run to when real life is too tough. It feels as if the magic will vanish if I say my love for it out loud. :)

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Jung Il Woo is killing it in High End Crush! The plot is meh, but his acting/facial expressions are worth it. Plus I love the actor playing his assistant. It's such a change from his character in Remember.

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Good morning beanies. I'm hoping you can help me out. Before the great Safari crash of 2016, there was a site that was recommended on here that I visited. It was similar to Netizenbuzz but started with "kk" I think. After the Safari glitch, I cleared my cache and now I can't find that site again. I liked it because it covered more news than Netizenbuzz. Does anyone know that site? Thanks a million in advance.

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Thanks a million. That's it.

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Hi beanies!
hope everyone is doing well? Any interesting plans for the weekend?

All About My Mom - I don't have any sympathy for HG regarding his wife and MIL, and is Hye-joo mute? Why can't she say anything, the actress must be so frustrated. I'm dreading Dong-chul's reaction to San-Ok's illness, tempted to watch it next week instead.

Madame Antoine - Sung Joon is not my favourite actor but strangely I don't mind him in this drama. I can't wait to see how hye-rim outmanoeuvres him and gets him falling for her con instead. I'm not sure what the relationship between the professor and Seung-Chan is, are the writers setting them up to be a couple?

One Happy Ending, Signal - will be watching this weekend hopefully.

Variety -

ROTS = I skipped ahead to watch the latest episode 114 for the newest addition to the cast. Eugene and Ki-tae's little girl, I didn't think they would join the cast! How exciting! I'm still amazed at how they ended up dating, getting married after creating destiny- it must be fate ;)

WGM- Caught up to the MBC awards episode , yomy the puppy is so adorable!! Who looks after it in between shoots and what will happen after the fake marriage is over? I think my favourite couple at the moment is Oh Yeah, they seem pretty comfortable, friendly on and off screen.

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*** SPOILER (maybe) ***

Madame Antoine Episode 3 - LOLOL! Never have I seen such a blatant lie told so blatantly and so badly Oh Dear Sung Joon or both SJ and his character... stiff face muscles or some lack of softening in expression going on there!!! At least act like you're acting like you mean it, you know! :D

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seriously, I don't know what's happening to Sung Joon. He was killing it four years ago in SUFBB/Can We Get Married, but his acting after that has not come even close to the kind of greatness we saw there (if he's done better in movies, I haven't watched any of his so I don't know). It's like, the closer to mainstream tv leading man he gets, the blander he gets.

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I think it has something to do with the characters he plays. In both "Shut Up" and "Can ...", he played teenagy, somewhat insecure and introvert characters who tried to be an adult and who tried to be masculine, and he did a very good job when it came to act awkward, overwhelmed or frustrated and childish.

Now that he keeps getting cast for "competent" characters, he simply doesn't have the tools for it.

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I completely agree, I just find myself in the episode, oh this is where he pulls a smirk, or the deadpan expression, very predictable and boring. I really think he should have signed up to do a family drama, a chance to learn from more experienced actors and practise his craft more.

I know what you mean about that scene Growingbeautifully! Was it supposed to be believable, is it just sung joon's acting or the way the character was written. Bloody hell, it was too embarrassing to watch.

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@ saki

Yes, those were the questions I asked about that scene too!

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--SPOILERS (Ep 3)--

My feeling with this show is that the story is very thin and that the writer hasn't thought through the details, including on the characters. Sung Joon's character is just... boring.

Much of the show is boring and doesn't really make sense – not just the psychological experiment (participants & researchers cannot back out unless they pay compensation?????) and all the psycho-waffle that comes out of Soo-hyun's mouth, but why is Hye-rim's daughter by herself in the US and not living with her mother??? Why does Hye-rim engage with Soo-hyun as someone she's sort of now dating? From what I understood she hasn't been with a guy since her divorce, and yet she seems immensely trusting of this person she barely knows? Why does she ask him to accompany her to the airport (why not her sister?)? Is one "I like you" (which was utterly uncompelling) enough to move her? As someone who seems to have been deeply hurt (& is not yet healed from that injury) I would expect her to be much more cautious. It's one thing to start having feelings for the guy and go on a date with him, but another to let him in to where you are most vulnerable, not when a couple of days ago you were hating him and when he's still such a stranger to you. I don't know, I feel like both lead characters are inconsistent – like the writer suggests they are one thing in one moment and then has them act in a way that doesn't really fit with that.

Overall, the drama feels superficial and clichéd. There's nothing fresh here. IOIL had its flaws, but it at least had interesting psychological cases. Did we really need another bitchy beauty that thinks she is better than everyone else and abuses the female lead? We get this scenario in nearly every kdrama, just because you stamp it off as 'patient with a disorder' here, doesn't make it any more interesting.

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I don’t know, I feel like both lead characters are inconsistent – like the writer suggests they are one thing in one moment and then has them act in a way that doesn’t really fit with that.

Soo-hyun is relatively consistent, I think: He has no idea what he is doing (professionally, personally). Hye-rim on the other hand really seems to have some kind of personality disorder. Her behaviour and her attitude seems to change all the time. She really should see a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

Did we really need another bitchy beauty that thinks she is better than everyone else and abuses the female lead? We get this scenario in nearly every kdrama, just because you stamp it off as ‘patient with a disorder’ here, doesn’t make it any more interesting.

When I heard the "histrionic personality disorder", I facepalmed. Literally. There was simply no way a K-drama writer would not exploit this in the most predictable and disgusting way possible.

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<He has no idea what he is doing (professionally, personally).

I'd agree with that, but I'm not quite sure the writer thinks that. I still believe the writer wants us to think, at least for now, that Soo-hyun is extremely intelligent and educated – THE professional in his field. I don't think the writer has even an inkling that the very experiment this character is doing would never, ever, ever fly in the real world because it a) would not pass any ethics committee b) it's scientific method is completely flawed and c) even the theory strikes me as completely non-sensical. Although I have no doubt that the writer intends to prove Soo-hyun wrong (i.e. the experiment will fail to some degree and the character will fall in love), I do believe that moment we're supposed to see him as a well-known expert in his field, despite the fact that he is as much a quack as Hye-rim.

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I don't think the writer has even an inkling that the very experiment this character is doing would never, ever, ever fly in the real world because it a) would not pass any ethics committee b) it's scientific method is completely flawed and c) even the theory strikes me as completely non-sensical.

I already forgot, what was his theory again?

Btw. "flawed" is really a very nice euphemism for his "scientific" "method".

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I have forgotten myself already!!!

But now he has a fancy machine that can tell you who your fated one is. Or, well, who you feel love for and how much. Or something like that.

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Well he should sell it to all the other characters in k-dramas who are desperate to find their fated OTP.

I gave up after Episode one.

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<I’m not sure what the relationship between the professor and Seung-Chan is, are the writers setting them up to be a couple?

That's the impression I'm getting too – or at least, she's crushing on him after he lent her his jacket and took her on his motorbike. But they are so mismatched. I get that sometimes people with huge age gaps can fall for each other, but I'd expect that happens (not including cases of insanely rich person + young arm candy) if they spend time around each other and just click. But what's the basis here? Does she fall for any young, pretty guy that she has half an hour of acquaintance with?

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Why didn't the writer use existing research as a basis for the experiment? Surely it would have taken an email, to run through the idea with an actual expert or carry out a basic search on the science behind this idea of true love/ or the ideal type.

In my opinion, it would have been better to use the Major compatibility complex as a basis for the ideal type theory. It's been suggested that females feel more attracted to men that have different MIC proteins to them and is detected by their natural body odour.

In the drama, he then selects the men according to their MIC profile and how similiar/dissimilar it is to the female in question. He could focus on whether love is something chemical/unpredictable or is dependent on external factors ie each men with similar MIC profiles and varying sources of income/looks etc. That would make it more plausible for me, to base it on actual experiments that have been carried out in the past. Plus a larger sample size or maybe asking for permission would be the right way to go about it, for an award-winning professor from stanford!

Yes, why isn't the daughter living in the states explained? I thought she was living with the dad already or a relative. The airport stalking made me feel uncomfortable, they aren't even friends, not to mention the sister spilling the beans, doctor or no doctor. The last episode he was trying to get her evicted!

With regards to the professor, I too am at a complete loss as to what brought on the sudden crush. They hardly talk to each other and to suddenly come out of retirement for that ride is ridiculous. I think she may be ill or has just recovered from a health scare so is looking for something to make her feel alive or that moment made her realise she missed companionship. Surely it would be more ethical if she took over the experiment, to eliminate that any chance of biased results?

Anyway off to watch episode 4, maybe we'll get more of an insight into the professor's sudden crush and how the ''experiment'' is going.

Thank you for your comments and insight @Alua, @JonG, @Pogo @Growingbeautifully, appreciate getting another perspective on the drama so far :D Looking forward to hearing what your opinions are on the next episode :)

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oh god such an idiot!
Major Histocompatibilitiy complex, MHC proteins instead of MIC...

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Thanks for the info @ saki. Your info has elevated our comment thread! LOL!

Yes, there are so many studies and much research on the human psyche, but this show has succeeded in ignoring all of them to create something totally unprofessional, invalid and worse of all, unethical.

Both the psychologists, assistant Ji Ho and Hye Rim (maybe even her sister who's helping Ji Ho learn how to be a boyfriend) appear to need psychological assessment and possibly treatment. We have seen no basis for their change in attitude or for what they do.

The show just needs to move the characters quickly into position so that they are interacting with the right character and is not interested in leading them there in a way that's slower but more reasonable. I think the term for that is lazy writing? :)

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---NOTE: contains SPOILERS for Ep. 4---

<Why didn’t the writer use existing research as a basis for the experiment?

I literally think the writer has no understanding of scientific research beyond high school level and is writing apparently without anyone (knowledgeable) advising him on this either.

<Yes, why isn’t the daughter living in the states explained? I thought she was living with the dad already or a relative.

I don't understand it either. She's too young & clearly wasn't living with Dad up to now. I can't even presume it's because it's a 'prestigious' thing to do – because that would still require money, but we have already had two occasions where we were told that Hye-rim's finances are in such a state that she has no significant savings (neither for the rent of the café's premises nor to easily afford her daughter's tuition).

<The airport stalking made me feel uncomfortable, they aren’t even friends,

She said she wanted Soo-hyun to accompany her for "image" purposes, but I seriously struggle with this – after all, this is a guy she has been fighting with AND whom she barely knows. And yet, he's her first choice despite the fact that this is a situation where she is at her most vulnerable? I would expect her to take her sister (who has been her support thus far) or, if really for image, a male relative/friend that she has know for longer and trusts deeply.

<not to mention the sister spilling the beans, doctor or no doctor

Yes!!!

<With regards to the professor, I too am at a complete loss as to what brought on the sudden crush.

She is ill, but it still makes no sense to me.

I also have issues with little details like the café and the practice being nearly empty all the time (how do they make enough money to survive?) and that the characters seem to be going to random places at random moments, as if they had nothing else to do. Why is it that Soo-hyun, the two flower boys (whom I'm struggling to distinguish except for the fact that one used to play baseball) and Hye-rim all go to the hospital with the actress, who already has her own, multi-person entourage that should be taking her? I can somewhat understand Soo-hyun going along, but everyone else? Don't they have anything else to do, other people to attend to, a practice & a café to run?

Tbh, ep. 4 made me feel that these characters live in some alternate universe (which is overly shiny & rather two-dimensional).

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I don't understand it either. She's too young & clearly wasn't living with Dad up to now. I can't even presume it's because it's a 'prestigious' thing to do – because that would still require money, but we have already had two occasions where we were told that Hye-rim's finances are in such a state that she has no significant savings (neither for the rent of the café's premises nor to easily afford her daughter's tuition).

I think it's called "financial status as the plot demands", in combination with "parental status as the plot demands" (I'm looking at you, OMHE).

In fact, almost everything about the characters' life seems to be plot-dependent, like Hye-rim cannot move her cafe because of all her regular customers who don't exist. No, it has absolutely nothing to do with forced "co-occupation".

I kind of understand this from a writer's perspective. Very often you want to do one certain thing and you notice that it doesn't really make sense in the natural flow of things. You insert some explanation that's not entirely impossible. You forget that it doesn't add up with the rest of your story. Audience thinks that you are a lazy writer.

This kind of thing is okay for a web drama or a public channel idol drama, but I think for jtbc, you need to step up your game.

She said she wanted Soo-hyun to accompany her for "image" purposes, but I seriously struggle with this – after all, this is a guy she has been fighting with AND whom she barely knows. And yet, he's her first choice despite the fact that this is a situation where she is at her most vulnerable? I would expect her to take her sister (who has been her support thus far) or, if really for image, a male relative/friend that she has know for longer and trusts deeply.

Well, the "image" thing has to be an excuse, either by Hye-rim or by the author. Hye-rim is, for some reason, in love with Soo-hyun occasionally, she wants to be around him. Even though he doesn't make her feel more comfortable at all. And she mostly hates him. Or feels insecure around him even if there is no additional pressure. (Now that I think about it, it might actually be better for her to have an experienced and competent psychologist around her. But where can she find one?)

Yes, a real life version of Hye-rim would have asked her sister. But then the carefully constructed scenario about the daughter and the ex and his lover wouldn't have contributed to the Breeding Pair development. It's a no-win situation, you always look like a lazy writer.

Why is it that Soo-hyun, the two flower boys (whom I'm struggling to distinguish except for the fact that one used to play baseball) and Hye-rim all go to the hospital with the actress, who already has her own, multi-person entourage that should be taking her?

She has an entourage? Are you sure? Wait, yes, there were some guys around her...

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<In fact, almost everything about the characters’ life seems to be plot-dependent

<I kind of understand this from a writer’s perspective. Very often you want to do one certain thing and you notice that it doesn’t really make sense in the natural flow of things. You insert some explanation that’s not entirely impossible. You forget that it doesn’t add up with the rest of your story. Audience thinks that you are a lazy writer.

I can understand from why certain things are happening too: I know that the actress is accompanied by Soo-hyun, the two flower boys and Hye-rim because the writer wanted the confrontation scene in the garage which leads to the actress's trauma being resolved (I wonder now if she's going to disappear from the storyline?). But in the real world they accompanying her doesn't make sense – it's a contrived scenario, as is pretty much everything else that is plot-dependent.

Lazy writing? Yes. Although I would just straight-out say BAD writing. And, if it's there this early, I can see this drama writing itself into disaster fairly quickly. And, some of it isn't even writing: I mean, why is there no one on set that's like "Wait, this café is totally empty, let's drum together a few more extras and just have them sit around and drink coffee so it looks like the café is always busy/has regulars?"

<Hye-rim is, for some reason, in love with Soo-hyun occasionally, she wants to be around him.

It's very odd. She is starting to fall for him (and is aware of this) but I struggle to reconcile her feelings with her haven't-had-a-guy-since-I-divorced status. (And why him out of the three that are courting her?) I feel like his "I like you" is what supposedly moved her but it's so obviously fake – and she even says this, that something feels off. As someone who was majorly hurt in the past (a wound that hasn't healed at all and is currently having salt poured into) AND by her own admission believes that another failed love would completely break her I would expect her to treat much, much more cautiously.

I'm also feeling zero chemistry – which is perhaps the only thing that could compel me (because you can sometimes sense that even when you're early in a drama and the OTP are still arch-enemies).

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I know that the actress is accompanied by Soo-hyun, the two flower boys and Hye-rim because the writer wanted the confrontation scene in the garage

Wait, but didn't the HPD idol steal Soo-hyun's phone and send Hye-rim on a wild goose chase first with that text message? Couldn't she have done that just as well if Hye-rim had stayed in the cafe?

A propos.

because the writer wanted the confrontation scene in the garage which leads to the actress's trauma being resolved

Hong Jin-ah du verd*****s A****loch!!
(Excuse my French.)

What was that?? Now, I get it, the HPD idol is an asshole and needs to be called out on it. But just imagine she really was suffering from HPD and you are a counsellor in her therapy.

I'm not sure what's worse: To imagine the writer didn't think for a second what kind of message she is sending with this scene on how to deal with people with serious personality disorders; or to imagine she actually thought about it and then came up with this scene.

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<Wait, but didn’t the HPD idol steal Soo-hyun’s phone and send Hye-rim on a wild goose chase first with that text message? Couldn’t she have done that just as well if Hye-rim had stayed in the cafe?

Never responded to this – sorry.

There were two confrontation scenes at the hospital. One, when the actress was on the stretcher and had a little tantrum to make sure everyone would know that she doesn't want Hye-rim around her (full win for the actress: no one speaks up for Hye-rim at this point, no one stays with her, Soo-hyun even tells Hye-rim off).

The other is the one in the garage, which you already mentioned.

I think the first one is used for characterisation (it shows Hye-rim as 'caring' and 'professional' despite the fact that this person treats her as shit), the second for plot (actress's trauma coming out & her case being resolved) as well characterisation (again, Hye-rim being professional and immediately doing the task asked of her... and then flipping of course).

The second one of course could have easily been done if Hye-rim had stayed in the café, the first one however not.

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Currently watching Cheese in the Trap and loving the complex characters and university setting. Really like the fact that Jung/Seol couple actually communicate and talk things out in regards to their dating relationship. So refreshing!
However, I'm a bit confused on what started the bad feelings between them at the beginning. What exactly did Seol do to Jung to warrant him sending stalker Young Gon after her? I know she saw him let go of the pitcher so that the beer spilled on the other girl, but really, why would he care?

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Its a bit confusing to me too.

I think their animosity started when Seol accused him of being the one who outed SangChul's theft of membership fees.

I also don't think he sent stalker YG after Seol per se. He wanted to get back at YG after the basket ball fiasco. When he saw Seol talking to YG, he was as to curious why. YG immediately said "oh, you noticed that she talked to me too..." and then Yoo Jung went with it, trying to make YG uselessly spend money on gifts.

Petty revenge. But I think he got YG to stop stalking Seol after she complained to him, because his last message to YG was ,"come to the academy." (probably to threaten him to take a break from school?)

Yoo Jung is someone who really makes my head spin. Because he's so cute one moment and I forget all the petty things he's done and then I read the comments on the recap and I find myself agreeing with everyone -- whether they are saying he's not bad or even if they are saying that he is completely bad.

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I think their animosity started when Seol accused him of being the one who outed SangChul’s theft of membership fees.

I think he started to register her as an enemy when she smirked about him pouring water over the girl in the restaurant scene. Jung did develop this "underhanded" method of getting out of situations, but it seems to me that he is proud about his ability to do so. He seems to enjoy it when his manipulations work.

When Seol sees through this, and, worse, looks down on him because of it, it must really prick his pride.

Yes, the Sang-chul situation makes it much worse. Originally, Seol was just a drunkard in his eyes, but by then he learned that she is the best student second only to him. And this time, she accuses him publicly.

I also don’t think he sent stalker YG after Seol per se. He wanted to get back at YG after the basket ball fiasco. When he saw Seol talking to YG, he was as to curious why. YG immediately said “oh, you noticed that she talked to me too…” and then Yoo Jung went with it, trying to make YG uselessly spend money on gifts.

I'm not sure how Jung interpreted the talk between Seol and YG he witnessed. Maybe he has a concept of sympathy, maybe he figured that Seol likes YG, or maybe he just put it under the "people are strange" category.

But here I believe him when he said that "both" Seol and YG are annoying him. Seol is not just another meaningless ant that he can use to dish out justice to bad people (like Jae-woo in the Sang-chul case). She is a bad person too.

I don't think it could have been any clearer. He told In-ha that both of them are annoying him, he set YG up to harass Seol and then he handed the phone over to her with his typical "I love it when a plan comes together"-smirk.

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He sounds horrible when you put it so plainly. But everything you said is correct.

It's strange that such a person is the hero in a rom-com. I can see why so many people are shipping Inho with Seol. (Not me, though. I seem to have this crazy fascination with YJ and I just need him to be redeemed in the future.)

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He sounds horrible when you put it so plainly. But everything you said is correct.

I don't think he is horrible at all. He's just not "normal". But considering he is a person who lacks empathy and is unable to assimilate social rules automatically -- very huge deficits for a person to have -- he's actually quite a great guy.

It’s strange that such a person is the hero in a rom-com.

Definitely. Exciting, isn't it?

I can see why so many people are shipping Inho with Seol. (Not me, though. I seem to have this crazy fascination with YJ and I just need him to be redeemed in the future.)

That's where I am a bit anxious. I still fear that they turn him into a missunderstood woobie at the end.

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Thanks for the input, Jon G. If Jung thought Seol was a "bad person" and did send YG to stalk her, why did he get rid of YG once Seol came and said YG was giving her a hard time and asked him if he was the one who told YG she liked him?
Wouldn't he want her to continue to suffer?

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Excellent question! I've been struggling with this too.
The show suggested that Jung was responsible for YG stopping to go after Seol, but we have no evidence of how and why he did it.
The timeline is a bit fishy too. What we know:

(a) basketball game, YG goes against Jung
(b) Seol consoles YG, witnessed by Jung
(c) (off-screen) YG complains that everyone except Seol hates him, witnessed by Jung and Sang-chul.
(d) (off-screen) Jung encourages YG and points him towards Seol. He gives him his "wrong" phone number.
(e) Jung complains about YG and Seol to In-ha and gives her the phone.
(f) (off-screen) YG receives In-ha's texts to stalk Seol
(g) YG stalks Seol and tells her that Jung sets him up to do it.
(h) Seol complains about it to Jung.
(i) YG stops.

Several issues here: Do we know exactly which texts Jung or In-ha sent to YG? Some of them looked nothing like Jung would write. The ones that Jung definitely wrote did not mention any presents, right?

What exactly was Jung's plan concerning YG? How was he trying to punish YG just by sending him towards Seol? How well did he anticipate (or even supervise) In-ha when she had fun with YG via text?

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Hmm
I did a rewatch of those scenes and from what I could tell Jung just sent the one text to YG when he and In Ha were at the cafe. YG asks if HS likes him and YJ texts back "I guess Seol likes you". Then In Ha takes away his phone and when YJ says both HS and YG are bothering him, she says she'll take care of it , she's keeping the phone and she texts YG from then on. YJ doesn't stop In Ha or take his phone back. I don't think he had any idea (or cared) what In Ha texts were from then on. He wanted YG to stop pestering him with calls and texts so letting In Ha have the phone takes care of that.
He knows HS will be getting the annyoing calls and texts from YG, but I think he felt that it would be a short time frame. HS would tell YG to get lost and he'd go away eventually. I don't think he really knew how bad the YG stalking would get to the point where HS is basically being terrorized by YG.
When HS confronts YJ, perhaps he feels that she has been punished long enough and so decides to put a stop to it.

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I re-watched that scene and Jung isn't the one who mentions presents. All he said was Seol must like you and then Inha took over. So there was definitely some intent to cause an issue for Seol.

Also, when YG confronted YJ in the classroom, he said something along the lines of, "you don't like Seol. Are you going to betray her and get her to leave school, too?" So this leads me to believe YJ definitely did something that caused YG to take a break from school. The timing coincides with Seol complaining to him.

Also, @Jon G: loved your statement "for a person who lacks empathy, he's actually quite a great guy."

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@Table (Can I call you table? Is that impolite?)

[rewatch]

I don’t think he had any idea (or cared) what In Ha texts were from then on. He wanted YG to stop pestering him with calls and texts so letting In Ha have the phone takes care of that.

Very much possible. Question: Why does YG have Jung's phone number? And why does he have his "fake" phone number? Apparently, YG is the only one to have this phone number, otherwise Jung would not have given the phone to In-ha for good.

He knows HS will be getting the annyoing calls and texts from YG, but I think he felt that it would be a short time frame. HS would tell YG to get lost and he’d go away eventually. I don’t think he really knew how bad the YG stalking would get to the point where HS is basically being terrorized by YG.
When HS confronts YJ, perhaps he feels that she has been punished long enough and so decides to put a stop to it.

That sounds convincing. He anticipated some trouble for both Seol and YG and was fine with that, because
(a) he wanted to punish both of them
(b) he removed himself from the equation through the additional phone
(c) he had nothing to actually do anymore thanks to In-ha

Sounds very much like something Jung would do.

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I re-watched that scene and Jung isn’t the one who mentions presents. All he said was Seol must like you and then Inha took over. So there was definitely some intent to cause an issue for Seol.

I agree, but there are some different possible scenarios. Maybe Jung really just wanted to get rid of the phone so that YG wouldn't pester him anymore. Maybe Jung wanted to cause trouble primarily for YG. Maybe he wanted to punish both YG and Seol at the same time (without actually doing anything -- not only to keep his hands clean but also to not waste any time and thought on them).

Also, when YG confronted YJ in the classroom, he said something along the lines of, “you don’t like Seol. Are you going to betray her and get her to leave school, too?” So this leads me to believe YJ definitely did something that caused YG to take a break from school. The timing coincides with Seol complaining to him.

Good call. I forgot about that.

Even Seol speculated about the coincidence of her calling out Jung about YG and YG immediately stopping to stalk her.
But because we haven't seen any actual material about how it happened, it's even more difficult to conjure info about Jung's motivation behind the whole affair.

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Yes, agree @aoiaheen and @Jon G.
Jung must have been the one to stop YG. He wouldn't have done it on his own or listened to HS. Hopefully we'll get some answers regarding Jung's actions and POV next episodes.

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Agree with you, Jon G. that YJ was punishing both HS and YG here.
YG is punished by being humilliated by HS repeated rejections. HS is punished by having to deal with annoying YG and his phone calls/texts. We don't know the time frame between when YJ gave in Ha the phone and HS confronted him about YG, perhaps it was way longer than YJ expected HS to have to deal with YG, and/or he didn't realize the severity of YG stalking so YJ feels HS has been punished long enough and then gets rid of YG.

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So interesting to read this analysis so far.

I guess I fall into the camp of people who think that YJ's mindset is more of a "leave me alone, I really couldn't care less about you both" mentality. So I would read it a bit like this:

(a) basketball game, YG goes against Jung - Jung is taken aback by YG's accusation of his fake facade, but clocks him as an annoyance who has humiliated himself in front of the student body.

(b) Seol consoles YG, witnessed by Jung - who is curious how since everyone else is treating YG like a pariah, she would still go forward and comfort him.

(c) (off-screen) YG complains that everyone except Seol hates him, witnessed by Jung and Sang-chul.

(d) (off-screen) Jung encourages YG and points him towards Seol. He gives him his “wrong” phone number. - I don't know whether he encourages him, but I believed he gave him his "current" number.

(e) Jung complains about YG and Seol to In-ha and gives her the phone. - actually he gets a text from YG saying something about Seol and how it seems she likes him. Jung agrees politely and disinterestedly as most people would do. He gets asked by In-Ha if those people are bothering him, and he said yes. His phone gets taken by In-Ha.

(f) (off-screen) YG receives In-ha’s texts to stalk Seol

(g) YG stalks Seol and tells her that Jung sets him up to do it.

(h) Seol complains about it to Jung.

(i) YG stops.

As In-Ha has taken his phone, Jung gets a new one. The student body gets his new number, but since YG left school for a year, he never got the new number.

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About giving YG his number, I think that Jung was too polite to refuse YG in public, just like he couldn't tell nam joo yeon to quit trying to pour him a drink. But like he took care of her by spilling the drink on her, he did the same to YG. As soon as he gave him his number he bought a new phone. Then to keep YG out of his hair, he gave the phone to Inha to text on his behalf. I remember his friend saying, "didnt you change your number?" So the phone number he gave YG was his old one.

He got back at YG the same way he got back at SangChul. He used JaeWoo. I don't think Jung liked jaewoo much since jaewoo was not too polite when speaking Jung. So he just poked the fire and left it to burn. But he didn't want things to go beyond a certain level. So when the kids tried to bring a case against SangChul, Jung did his best to stop that from happening.

In the YG-seol case it's the same. He didn't want things to go out of hand so he got YG to stop.

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Signal is love. Jo Jin Woong is life. \o/

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I want more Jo Jin Woong <3.

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Can never get enough!

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Gosh I just watched Signal Ep 4

*** SPOILER?? ***

I was so emotional! Never thought I'd get emotional over a crime procedural. This show however has a lot of heart and realness in the people, the main as well as the side characters, and their raw emotions really got me. Cried mainly and laughed while crying.. I cried more than for Reply!

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Cheese in the trap - I love this drama so far but I doubt I will date a guy like Yoo Jung in real life.

One More Happy Ending - I had a low expectation with this drama but ep 1 and 2 proved me wrong. I laughed several times watching the first two episodes. I was dissapointed with lack of Mimo-Soo Hyuk interactions in ep 3 because those two are hilarious when they are together. One more thing, I'm not sure if Jung Kyung Ho ever acts in saeguk drama,he looks good playing as a King.

Because of Jung Kyung Ho, I watched Heartless City again and tried watching Falling For Innocence. I must admit that Jung Kyung Ho looks handsome the most in Heartless City and had the best hairstyle compared to his other dramas. That guy looks good in suit.

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No kidding, dating Yoo Jung would make one feel off-balance all the time.

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Agreed!! Rewatching Heartless Cuty right now and it's my mom's first time watching and first k drama ever. He looks so damn fine in a suit. Just delicious.

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Anyone watching Bromance? Fluffy, cute and breezy to watch. After enjoying Nirvana in Fire and Love Me If You Dare, I needed another chinese drama since none of the kdramas have really picked up well for me since last year.

Ranked to my preference:
Bromance - Fav of the season
Signal - Probably surpassing Gap Dong and God's Gift
One More Happy Ending - Jang Nara never fails to deliver cuteness for me
Madame Antoine - Enjoyable
Cheese In The Trap - Starting to lack lustre as someone else above mentioned
Moorim School - Progressing better than first couple eps
Neighborhood Hero - On the brink of dropping but shall try 2 more eps
Marry Me Or Not - OTP romance not working for me. Watching for 2nd leads OTP.

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