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The Liar and His Lover: Episode 8

After years of working in an industry where promises are meaningless unless bound in a contract, So-rim’s integrity becomes a sudden obstacle for Han-gyul’s need to hear her sing his song. So now, he has some choices to make. He’s always put music before everyone else, and despite his best intentions, lying is an easy habit to slip back into. Will Han-gyul see the trap he’s laid for himself? Or will he sacrifice another relationship at the altar of his music?

 
EPISODE 8 RECAP

Jin-hyuk is shocked to find out from CEO Yoo that the Crude Play boys have been uploading videos of their practice sessions on the net. The folder she throws at him even contains a testimony from the guitarist Han-gyul had fired from Sole Music. Before leaving, CEO Yoo snarls that he should have focused on the band he already had.

Han-gyul walks home listlessly after So-rim refuses to listen to the song he wrote for her. He slows down when he notices a man playing the guitar across from his front door. Finally, he greets the man as his father, and In-woo looks up and smiles at him.

They go inside, and In-woo looks around the house with open curiosity. Han-gyul is more interested in why he’s here and when he arrived in Seoul, but his father wants to check out his studio and make dinner. When In-woo tells him that he’s been in the city for two months, Han-gyul asks sarcastically if he’s been too busy playing on the streets to come visit.

Chan-young reads about Mush & Co’s debut in the car ride back home. Shi-hyun gets a call from Soo-yeon, and she tells him that they’ve been found out. Jin-hyuk calls the van driver and has the boys brought back to Sole’s studio so he can rake them over.

Shi-hyun, Yoon, and In-ho try to defend their actions by pointing out that they feel fake every time they go up on stage, but their righteousness withers before Jin-hyuk’s anger. He points out their hypocrisy in wanting to make “real” music when their stunt could have ruined the very real hard work of the people around them.

He asks them if Han-gyul knows, and Shi-hyun asks Jin-hyuk to keep the videos a secret from their friend. This makes Chan-young — who had been listening silently to everything — smile grimly to himself. Once outside, the boys stop Chan-young to apologize, but he points out that even after five years he’s still an outsider to them, the one they only think about after Han-gyul. He thanks them for teaching him to distrust them.

Jin-hyuk and CEO Yoo meet with the reporter with the scoop about Crude Play. Jin-hyuk denies that the videos were of his boys, but the reporter has him cornered. He asks for meatier gossip in exchange for staying silent about Crude Play. CEO Yoo asks if Jin-hyuk and Yoo-na’s wedding is a big enough scoop. Jin-hyuk is taken aback, but he remains silent when the reporter squeals in glee.

Han-gyul calls Shi-hyun, who looks painfully at the screen but doesn’t pick up. In turn, So-rim calls Han-gyul, who frowns at the screen and texts that he’ll call back. In-woo calls Han-gyul down for dinner, and when he tries to pretend that he’s listening to music in his room, he shouts “Han-gyulie, gyulie, gyulie, gyulie, gyulie!” till he gives up and comes down. Oh my god, that was so cute!

Han-gyul finds his dad pouring truffles into his wok and squeaks that they were really expensive. In-woo laughs and explains that he thought they were normal mushrooms that were going bad. This makes Han-gyul ask indignantly if he was planning on feeding him moldy mushrooms. Hahaha.

So-rim sits mournfully, thinking about the moment when she rejected Han-gyul’s song. Her phone rings and she snaps it up, hoping for a call from Han-gyul. But it’s Chan-young, and he’s waiting for her outside her house.

She goes out to meet him and can tell that something is off. Chan-young smiles and says that Han-gyul will want to write a song for her. His face shows clearly that he expects her to choose Han-gyul’s music, since she likes him. But So-rim surprises him by saying that she’s already turned it down, because she’d promised to work with Chan-young first.

Chan-young laughs in relief and thinks back to Han-gyul’s words to Shi-hyun: “In a battle, where the opponent doesn’t want to win… I can’t win either.” He asks So-rim if there is such a thing as winning and losing in music. “The one who wants to win is likely losing, right?” he asks her.

He takes her hand and promises to be by her side anyway. As long as she trusts him, he promises not to let her go.

Jin-hyuk meets Yoo-na on his way out of Sole. She’s furious about being replaced in the ad contract by a rookie band and hurt that Jin-hyuk has been avoiding her calls all day. He can’t really explain the machinations behind the scenes, and Yoo-na leaves after telling him that she doesn’t want to hear anything more from him.

Han-gyul leaves early the next morning, which makes In-woo ask if he’s uncomfortable in his home because of his father’s presence. Han-gyul stops at the door and retorts that his father is the one who seems uncomfortable, because why else would he try and act like a nice dad at this point? He asks In-woo to just be himself.

In-woo visits the market and stops at Grandma’s vegetable shop, where So-rim recognizes him. He tells So-rim that he’s staying nearby with someone who doesn’t like him much, but he like him a lot. So-rim admits that she has someone like that too.

They bond over coffee and self pity, and So-rim asks why she feels hurt when he doesn’t take her calls, when a few weeks back, a text from him would make her day. In-woo explains that expectations build up when you find someone you want to rely on.

Han-gyul is listening to the new band for Crude Play’s recording practice when Shi-hyun comes in to talk to him. He notices that Han-gyul is ignoring So-rim’s calls, and Han-gyul admits that he’s angry because she rejected his music twice.

Shi-hyun says that she’s only been able to reject it because she hasn’t heard his song yet. Han-gyul perks up at this and wonders aloud if he should find a way to make her listen. But Shi-hyun interrupts him and asks why he’s so eager to have someone else sing his music — is Crude Play not enough? Before Han-gyul can register the hurt in Shi-hyun’s voice, he leaves.

Mush & Co get their first photo shoot, as stylists try to figure out which look suits their image the best. So-rim walks out in a pretty dress and stuns the boys. She’s flattered by their reaction, until her eyes fall on a poster of the older, more glamorous Yoo-na. Soo-yeon offers to do her make up to get an idea of the full look.

Han-gyul sits alone in his studio trying to figure out ways to trick So-rim into hearing his song. (Pfft. What happened to not lying?) So-rim calls him from outside the room, asking if she can come in. He gets up and unlocks the door, and then stands speechless as So-rim walks in with her new look.

She asks if he’s still angry with her, but he stumbles over himself to tell her that he isn’t. He can’t look away from her, but all he manages to say is that the lipstick she’s wearing is too bold for her age. *facepalm*

So-rim notices the bass guitar asks him to play for her. When he declines, she doesn’t press the issue and instead asks him about the difference between a guitar and a bass. This prompts Han-gyul to help position her fingers correctly on the instrument until he’s standing with his arms around her, their faces inches apart. So-rim’s smile dies away as awareness heats the air, but before anything can happen, Chan-young comes into the room.

He calls their “moment” much too predictable (ha), but then pays lavish compliments to So-rim on her new look. Han-gyul watches this with disbelief, barely suppressing an eye-roll. On his way out, Chan-young asks to speak to Han-gyul in private.

Outside the studio, he asks Han-gyul if he gave So-rim a song. Han-gyul says that it wasn’t for her debut and didn’t have much meaning. Chan-young scoffs at this and says that he knows Jin-hyuk hasn’t given up on Han-gyul producing Mush & Co. With a smug smile, he tells him that he’ll repay So-rim for choosing him over Han-gyul, so he should stop trying to come between them. Jin-hyuk overhears this exchange from around the corner.

Han-gyul re-enters the room to find So-rim with her earphones in, singing to herself. He flashes back to the first time he heard Chan-young playing his part in the band. He had asked Jin-hyuk who the bassist was, and Jin-hyuk had explained that people need to believe that Han-gyul was not only an excellent songwriter but also a brilliant bassist. At his shock, Jin-hyuk had laughingly asked if he had believed himself to be a good at playing the bass. (Ugh, that was mean.)

In the present, he strides to So-rim and takes off her earphones. “Don’t sing that song,” he tells her. “It’s fine if you won’t sing my song, but don’t sing his either.” Ouch.

That night, he finds Yoo-na waiting outside his house. She asks him once again to write a song for her, and he asks her if she isn’t ashamed. Yoo-na tells him that compared to when she was in love with him, this is nothing. Back then, she was afraid that he would find her voice inadequate for his song, so asking him to write her one could have lost her his love as well as respect. But now all she has to lose is her pride. Han-gyul doesn’t have a response to that.

The next morning, Han-gyul talks to Jin-hyuk about Yoo-na’s lapsed ad contract. He’s angry on her behalf, since Jin-hyuk seems to be putting his business before her. Jin-hyuk seems unflappable, but he proposes that Han-gyul write a song for Yoo-na in exchange for So-rim. This trips Han-gyul up, especially when Jin-hyuk points out that he might lose So-rim to Chan-young permanently.

While In-woo practices with a band, Yoo-seok saunters in late. He bullies the other musicians and throws his weight around until In-woo gets up and leaves. CEO Yoo catches him on his way out and asks why he’s leaving early. He explains that Yoo-seok isn’t ready for practice, and he’ll come back when he is. CEO Yoo says with frustration that Yoo-seok is a businessman now, not a man who performs for the love of music. In-woo simply says that he won’t be coming back then.

Han-gyul notices them in the lobby and asks his father what he’s doing there. They move to CEO Yoo’s office, where Han-gyul has a meltdown when he hears that In-woo is acting as session musician for the man who stole all his songs.

CEO Yoo is upset at his tone and reminds him that she’s the one who rescued Crude Play from their recent scandal. Han-gyul asks what scandal she’s talking about, and CEO Yoo has the grace to look uncomfortable at her gaffe.

In-woo takes Han-gyul aside and tells him about the whole thing. (How does he know?) Han-gyul wants to race off to confront his friends, but In-woo asks what he wants to hear from them. He points out that Sole and Han-gyul have the same goal — producing his music with the most efficient musicians and making the most money. He adds that his friends have had to live as dolls concerned only with their own stardom to preserve this perfect production line of Han-gyul’s musical creations.

Stung by his father’s words, he turns the knife back at his father: “You aren’t free, you just don’t have the confidence to be responsible for your music. Just like you couldn’t be responsible for Mother and me.” Before walking away, Han-gyul adds that even if he becomes the bad guy, he’ll always be responsible for what belongs to him.

Han-gyul gathers his friends at Shi-hyun’s bar and confronts them about the videos. He makes it clear that he doesn’t want to know their reasons and just wants to make sure this never happens again. Shi-hyun asks if Han-gyul had even listened to their videos. Han-gyul says that he’s heard their subpar playing for ten years and that anyone with good ear will know the difference between their music and the music recorded for Crude Play.

This makes Shi-hyun yell that he can’t tell the difference. No matter how faithfully they stick to the music sheets they can never satisfy Han-gyul. He asks his friend if he knows how inadequate he makes them feel. Concluding that the band is just business for Han-gyul, Shi-hyun tells him that he doesn’t want to sing his songs anymore.

The three boys walk out, leaving Han-gyul standing alone in the bar. He looks towards the stage, thinking back to the time when they practiced for a small gig in that bar. Han-gyul had been frustrated at their mistakes, while Yoon, In-ho, and Shi-hyun had claimed that their appearances would make up for any deficiency. In the present, Han-gyul blinks away tears.

Jin-hyuk drives Yoo-na to dinner and tells her that Han-gyul agreed to write her a song. She asks how he agreed, and Jin-hyuk jokes that he just had to hold someone hostage. Yoo-na’s face falls then, and she asks if it’s So-rim. She wonders what kind of person she is to inspire this kind of attention from so many people.

Han-gyul gets home to find that In-woo’s things have disappeared from the spare room. He curls up on his sofa and tells himself in a sad whisper: “I knew it.” His father has left him again.

Gyu-sun and Se-jung sit at a cafe where she asks him about their debut song. He promises to tell her once it’s decided, then gets up to pay for their food. Se-jung swipes his phone and hands him his bag as he leaves for practice.

In the studio, Gyu-sun realizes that his phone is missing but it’s too late to go find it. Soo-yeon arrives with a flash drive of five songs for them to listen to — one of these will be their debut songs.

As Chan-young nears Jin-hyuk’s office, he hears his song playing. He smiles and opens the door, when suddenly, Jin-hyuk switches the track to another. In the studio room, So-rim listens to the track too, and it has the same beginning as K’s. Her mouth tightens as she listens to it.

Chan-young asks who wrote the second song, but Jin-hyuk guesses that he knows K’s songs well enough to recognize one. Those two songs are among the five to be discussed by the executives in a meeting soon. Chan-young turns and leaves, and after staring at the screen for a moment, Jin-hyuk deletes one of the songs. He hands this shortened list to Soo-yeon for the meeting.

Chan-young arrives to find Han-gyul working on Yoo-na’s song in his house. He asks why Han-gyul submitted his song to Jin-hyuk after he repeatedly asked him to stay away. Han-gyul tells him that he met and discovered So-rim’s voice first, so he has a right to be involved in her debut.

This is clearly news to Chan-young, but he doesn’t back down. He accuses Han-gyul of using So-rim’s infatuation to make her sing his music. He tells him not to fool around at such an important junction in So-rim’s life.

But Han-gyul asks what Chan-young plans to do if he’s serious about So-rim. “What if I want to be with her and do everything with her, including music?” he asks. Chan-young stares at him, nonplussed, then says: “You should still give up.”

He tells Han-gyul that he makes everyone around him miserable, and Han-gyul doesn’t deny it, but he says that it’s up to So-rim to decide. He advises Chan-young to keep out of their relationship, just like he isn’t talking to Jin-hyuk about fixing Chan-young’s song.

Through his anger, Chan-young tells him that it was because of Jin-hyuk’s greed to release his music quickly that Crude Play didn’t get the practice they needed to play their own songs. So, it’s Han-gyul’s fault that his friends have become fakes.

After Chan-young storms out of Han-gyul’s home, he gets a text from Soo-yeon that the decision has been made. Jin-hyuk calls Han-gyul to tell him that they chose Chan-young’s song. Han-gyul is disappointed, but he praises Chan-young’s song as one that will show So-rim’s voice to advantage.

Jin-hyuk is pleased with his attitude, then he asks how Yoo-na’s song is coming along. Han-gyul figures out that he’s been manipulated and asks if Jin-hyuk thinks he’s a machine that can unceasingly crank out music. Jin-hyuk replies by calling him a very efficient machine.

Han-gyul finally breaks and tells him that he’s bound up with Jin-hyuk in every aspect of his life, and he can’t take it anymore. Jin-hyuk tells him that even if he breaks his contract with him, he knows Han-gyul will be back… because of music. “What you value the most is music. You’ll only meet people through music. You’ll love and hurt people only through music.”

Tears slide down his face as Han-gyul puts down the phone. He collapses in his chair as his life and relationships lie in shambles around him. On the other end, Jin-hyuk sends Han-gyul’s song to Yoo-na.

So-rim, Gyu-sun, and Jin-woo put their headphones on to listen to the song selected for their debut. As Chan-young’s song starts playing, the boys exclaim in excitement, but So-rim’s face falls. Ah, she’s already heard Han-gyul’s song. Jin-hyuk notices her reaction and smiles.

Soo-yeon asks him why he excluded K’s song, and Jin-hyuk says that singing Chan-young’s song will benefit the band in the long run. He explains that So-rim will eventually become a songwriter, and right now she needs a song she can trample on. He expects her to want to rework the song to improve it, whereas with Han-gyul’s song, she’ll just want to protect it. Wow. That’s cold, but brilliant.

So-rim calls Han-gyul to ask if his song had been taken out of the selection process. Han-gyul goes along with it (even though he doesn’t know if that is true). He asks to meet her and prepares a flash drive. About to copy the final version of “Waiting for you,” he copies the first draft into the drive with a sad smile.

Se-jung calls Jin-woo’s number to tell Gyu-sun that she carried off his phone by mistake. She promises to return it the next day. In the meantime, she sits in a cyber cafe looking through Gyu-sun’s chats with So-rim and Jin-woo.

On her way out of Sole Music, So-rim meets Yoo-na in the hallway. She greets So-rim and draws her into a conversation about her debut. She smoothly mentions that Han-gyul will be producing her comeback album and asks if she wants to hear the song she’ll be singing. From the very first riffs, So-rim knows it’s the one he wrote for her.

She excuses herself and goes to the washroom. With the song playing in her head, she washes her face repeatedly and asks why it had to be that song.

She clears away the traces of her tears before meeting Han-gyul by the river. He still sees that she had been upset and guesses that he’s the reason. So-rim asks why he had to give Yoo-na the song he wrote for her. Han-gyul clearly doesn’t know about this, but instead of being honest, he asks her if she dislikes the idea of Yoo-na singing her song.

She admits that she does, and Han-gyul presses her to sing it herself. He says that it doesn’t have to be her debut song, but she just has to promise to sing it. Miserable, So-rim explains again that she’s bound by her promise to Chan-young, but Han-young’s face hardens.

He asks her if she had to choose between never seeing him again and keeping her promise to Chan-young, would she forget about the promise and choose him? (Oh, you jackass!)

So-rim tears up, unable to answer. Han-gyul takes a deep breath and says that this is why he doesn’t like dating girls who sing. He hands her the flash drive, saying that he’d meant to turn over a new leaf with this, but he ended up hurting her anyway. Then he walks away, leaving So-rim standing alone.

But a little distance away, Han-gyul slows to a stop. He wrestles with his conflicting feelings, then turns and runs back to So-rim.

In a haze of pain, So-rim walks down the road, where Chan-young finds her. He observes that she looks sad, but she denies it. Then, looking into his sympathetic face, she slowly starts to crumple. Gently, Chan-young pulls her into his arms as she sobs her heart out.

Han-gyul comes running down the path and stops at the sight of them. Jin-hyuk’s words rings in his ears: “You’ll always love and hurt people through music… all your life.”

 
COMMENTS

That was brutal. With the sweetness of Han-gyul and So-rim’s courtship these past weeks, I’d begun to think that their world was less ruthless than I’d suspected. Han-gyul’s demeanor is usually so passive and guileless that I had forgotten how easily he’d torn his friends down when they’d questioned his decision about their music.

As Chan-young pointed out, much of Crude Play’s current misery can be traced back to Jin-hyuk’s initial decision to use professional musicians to record their songs instead of letting the band grow into their strengths. While he blamed it on Han-gyul’s need to get his music out in its most perfect form, I think most of the responsibility lies with Jin-hyuk, who was older and nurtured Han-gyul’s habit of putting his music before his friends. He could have fostered Crude Play’s bonds and ensured that they came out stronger together, but instead, he chose the path of quick success. I’m sure, as the owner of a brand new label, Jin-hyuk had been in a hurry to establish his company’s credentials in the industry — but as a mentor to five teenaged boys, he failed them spectacularly.

That flashback into Crude Play’s early days showed Han-gyul’s frustration with his friends’ playfulness during their practice session. It was telling that even as a young boy, he wanted his music played perfectly, while his friends dreamed of fame and stardom. Ironically, they got exactly what they wanted; however, none of the boys had imagined that they would have to sell their integrity to achieve their dreams. And maybe, Han-gyul had comfortably believed that his friends were happy with the renown they had claimed they wanted, freed from the pressures of playing at the level Han-gyul demanded from them. But they were ultimately living a lie, and not everyone is as comfortable with that as Han-gyul.

Jin-hyuk’s reasons for choosing Chan-young’s song for Mush & Co. is ruthless, but understandable. With her penchant for writing lyrics and ear for music, it’s unsurprising that he sees a budding songwriter in So-rim. So it makes sense that he would want her to start developing her composing skills. And it’ll be interesting to see how Chan-young reacts to So-rim suggesting changes to his song. She has shown backbone whenever her beliefs were tested, but will she be able to hurt his pride by criticizing his music? Contrary to what Chan-young believes, So-rim didn’t choose him over Han-gyul, she simply chose to keep her promise, even at the cost of losing a song that could start her career with a bang. It’s sad that neither of the boys can see the simple truth of this.

I don’t know how I feel about Han-gyul’s dad. They are adorable together, but In-woo has clearly left deep scars in his son’s psyche. Even I thought it was rich of him to preach about Han-gyul using his friends for his music when he had left his son to be brought up by his grandmother as a boy. No matter how crinkly his smile is, I’m not feeling too generous towards a man who up and leaves the moment his son lets his hurt and resentment show.

Then again, abandonment issues don’t excuse Han-gyul’s treatment of So-rim here. He behaved like a spoiled child who was unused to being denied what he wanted. It was infuriating to see him take So-rim’s honest jealousy over his song and use it to manipulate her that way. Somehow, he has internalized So-rim’s rejection of his song as a rejection of him. Music is so much a part of his identity that he can’t think clearly outside its framework. Ultimately, this is what makes him the eponymous “Liar” of the show. When it comes to his music, he will say anything, hurt anyone, to get what he wants.

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Yes! Thank you for the recap. I was waiting for this.... it's so hard to contain spoilers when you forget what is in what episode. Now, we can talk about everything :)

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Also, is it me, or did Open Thread 495 disappear? Or did I imagine it yesterday?

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Haha, sadly, it seems it was sacrificed for the good of the site? I tried to comment earlier, but then couldn't load the page because the network would time out. I think it may have slowed everything down, for reasons someone more technologically-advanced than me would understand.

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My network times out when I go to certain pages as well. I don't know about open thread, but when I go to Liar & Lover recap for episode 7, sometimes, it gives me a timeout.

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Same here! I've been trying to access TLAHL recaps but kept getting timed out. Which is super frustrating especially when I can access Whisper's recap so easily. Ugh.

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I dont know why but after trying several million times only I could open this page too. Its showing check address again and again

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Happened to me too. It wouldn't let me get to this page. Once I managed, the comments count was so high. Sigh.

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At least think of it this way... the page was unavailable for what... 5-7 hours? Which means there could have been even more comments to comb through. Hee.

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"it's so hard to contain spoilers when you forget what is in what episode"

Haha exactly my problem
Plus when you already read the manga.. I am such a spoiler for my self when watching this

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I get the same problem too. I watch episode 7 and 8 the day they are aired, so when the recaps come, it's almost a week later and my memory is fuzzy. If you've read the manga, it must be even more confusing for you. Haha

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My dilemma too :( I've read all of the manga. So sometimes I forget some things aren't happened yet in the episode and I unconsciously spoil everything. It is so hard to keep it to myself when fellow beanies in here asking about future development.

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Exactly l! I was bursting to talk about this episode in the last recap. For all the heartbreak and cuteness, this was my favourite episode so far. Somehow, as much as i like a squeely Han Gyul, i like his mean badass and (jealous) version even more.

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Me too, there were a lot of arguments I wanted to make last episode, but couldn't because it involved character development from this one. And yes, it's my favorite episode too, if only because I love character-driven conflicts.

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I much prefer this Han Gyul - it is much more realistic. Music is a cut-throat business, and frankly you aren't going to be successful unless you are willing to put personal relationships aside and do what needs to be done to get the product out. I especially like Crude Play's backstory, because no one is to blame: band is good but can't play at the level of their talented songwriter, yet they need to be out there making money for the brand. In an ideal world perhaps Crude Play could have been cossetted into becoming a true band, and perhaps the songs could have been dumbed-down for them - but in that case there would be nothing of the high-caliber songs that are their history. I felt a bit sorry for Han Gyul in that everyone piles on him in this episode when the only thing they have going for them is that they are sincere about their greed and self-interest. Yay?

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C'mon Chanyoung, Sorim and Hangyul were so close to kissing that was a good moment you creep

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I really dislike how CY is purposelh forcing himself between HG and So Rim. Forcing So Rim to re affirm her promises to him and threatening HG to take So Rim away, and that HG will never make So Rim happy. Hello? Who died and made you judge and jury? And I honestly don't think CY has So Rim's best interests at heart. I think he just doesn't want to lose this chance to establish himself and So Rim seems like the easiest person to do it with since she trusts CY. In fact if anyone has been abusing So rim's feelings, it's CY too.

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I think it's natural that as someone who cares about So Rim's career, he would not want Han Gyul to be messing with her and her emotions, and want to look out for her well-being. He doesn't believe Han Gyul is good for So Rim. And at this point, he's right. Han Gyul has been making everyone around him unhappy. So Rim being unhappy cannot be good for her focus on her career either, which would harm both himself and So Rim. He feels protective over So Rim too, anyone would.

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Yes, but why does he care about So Rim's career? To me I feel it's more because CY needs So rim to prove to the world and himself that he is a better producer than HG. Can CY be certain HG is bad for So Rim and will hurt her? Looking at the flip side- Can CY be certain that he is good for So Rim and will never hurt her? I dislike it when characters talk in absolutes- there is no relationship that will always be puppies and rainbows. There is no one person who will never make a mistake and make others unhappy. CY painting himself as So Rim's knight in shining armour and putting down HG isn't right to me. HG has never denied the fact that he can and has hurt So Rim. But HG likes/loves her and his intentions are good, even if he does mess up a lot. At least he is being real to himself about that and HG was darn right in telling CY off that it was So Rim's choice and not CY's to make. It's not that I don't sympathize with CY, it's just that I do question his motives behind his actions.

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thanks for the recap!!

side note: I'm addicted to the Crudeplay OST someone save me please

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No need for saving.... Stan crude play.

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That moment when you want to stan a fake band... Props to the show.

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What do you mean fake band.... They're totally real. *blocks ears* I can't hear anything. They're totally real. Hahaha.

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pat pat. yes, they real. Haven't you heard, they even released two songs Peter Pan and It's Okay in real life. they're real. #indenial

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They're real. They even had a photoshoot together for High Cut Magazine. ;D

http://m.post.naver.com/viewer/postView.nhn?volumeNo=7180809&memberNo=29770009

I love the BTS pictures where all the boys hug together. If only they could be like that in the drama.

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Don't forget, CRUDE PLAY is going to have a V-Live all by themselves on Monday 17, 6PM Korean Time. And it's all 5 of them together again according to the icon of the video on this link http://www.vlive.tv/upcoming?d=20170417&i=2

It's like what they can't have in the drama and be together, they make up for it in real life. I don't know which I prefer. For them to be OT5 in real life, or in the drama.

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Haha. Yes, I'm looking forward to their vlive. Speaking of vlive, Jin Soo (Song Kang) had one yesterday, and he talked about how the shipping name for Jin Woo and So Rim needs to be JinRim. Haha. He self-named their ship.

The subbed episode is out, but the subs are off-timing. You might want to wait for a few hours or days for vlive to adjust the subs, or just simply download it and retime it yourself. He talks about Liar and Lover during most of his vlive, and what he does time-off. He's cute.

http://www.vlive.tv/video/27418/

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While we're sharing V-lives.... Yoona also had a V-live where she showed all the set of Sole Entertainment to us. And I'm amazed at how everything is real, from little props like CDs (they made real CDs for Yoona), to awards for Jinhyuk, from the recording studio to everything. It's so fascinating to see how pretty and well-designed the movie set is. I also became a fan of her, Hong Se Yeong, after watching the V-live. She's such a girl crush and so cute and different from her character. She also talked about Joy, and sang musical songs (she's a musical actress) when people requested her to sing. She's also tomboyish. All the clothes in the V-lives she wears are so cool. And she's so cute in her V-live I just watched it without needing the subs or anything.

http://www.vlive.tv/video/27130?channelCode=F9AB1

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@ guguman Aw... seeing Crude Play cuddling with each other is too cute.

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Crude Play boys just did V-live video & re-enacted the scene between HG and SR almost kissing <33333 http://www.vlive.tv/video/27570?channelCode=ECA251

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the real question: did they record the ost themselves? ;)

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Lol. Good question. I know the boys have been taking lessons on their instruments, but I doubt they would have recorded themselves. I recognized Shihyun and Chanyoung's voices...

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I don't know but sihyun in real life is an idol.. So IMO that is sihyun's real voice, and for the instrumental maybe they also used professional musician to record that, just like the drama

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Yoon too was a former idol in the band Lunafly. So at least two of them can sing. Lee Seo Won has been learning the bass for real and playing the real chords for Crude Play songs during filming. As seen in BTS videos, he has music sheets with him to review. But yes, I don't think he's the one playing himself for the recording. He rapped in the song tho.

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Show still owes us one more Crude Play song. Their "Whoa~ I wanna talk to you" song that they played during their concert in Episode 1.

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i really want an MV that goes along with it (with just Crude Play OT5 scenes) they didn't make a MV for the other OSTs so they better

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I'm still bitter about them not making MVs for Peter Pan and I'm Okay. It's not even that hard when the MVs were already pre-filmed. Peter Pan's had the legendary Beatles zebra crossing, and I'm Okay's had the boys sitting and singing with vintage microphones. Heck, they could've just endlessly looped the "Vocal & Guitar YOO SI HYUN, Drum JI IN HO, Guitar LEE YOON, Bass SEO CHAN YOUNG" MV teaser and I would've been satisfied.

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Justice for Crude Play! They need an MV.

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The ost is daebak! And the background score as well. Did anyone else notice the music they played when HG and CY were exchanging barbs. The next scene where HG was on phone with Choi. I am simply addicted to it. And the ending of So Rim's performance when CY and HG were singing. Such fine music

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Man, you just gave me an excuse to go back and rewatch this episode once again before Monday arrives. lol.

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Oh man, this show. I find myself frustrated with many of the characters lately, so of all of them I find myself rooting for the Crude Play trio the most! Especially Shi-hyun!

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I like inho too.

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I think Sihyun is cute, HEH. I just want more scenes of him with Sooyeon, please! In fact, the Crude Play trio are just adorable, so I hope they get over this funk and move onwards.

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Yesssssssss more sooyeon shihyun scenes please!! Shihyun's glee over Sooyeon's phone call at the start of the ep killed me <3

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ship it~!

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I ship Shi-hyun and Soo-yeon too! Especially when I suffer such accute minor pairing syndrome. They are so cute together. According to shoujo manga formula, they can be main couple and have their own drama and the title will be like "Soo-yeon and The Four Knights" or "Crude Play Before Flowers". Almost paradiiiise~

Initially I used to ship their counterpart's manga characters. However, the manga failed to meet up my expectation. I can't believe there is a day when I choose adaptation over the original. But so far I'd say Soo-yeon has much more better characterization here. Within limited screentimes, Shi-Soo couple has great chemistry as well as complicated relationship.

Shi-hyun seems romatically attracted to Soo-yeon, whereas Soo-yeon is pretty chill toward him as she puts Han-gyul in higher priority. She is so against Crude Play uploading their vids because Han-gyul has no idea about it. However (as Han-gyul claimed) she is close enough to Shi-hyun that she can spite whatever she thinks and even comfortably use banmal with him and she doesn't do so with Han-gyul.

We can watch so much drama just in split seconds. They are so precious. I pray to dramagods to bless this pairing a happy ending.

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i feel that if OT5 Crude Play manages to understand each other, the chemistry will be AMAZING

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I request at the very least, the last 2 episodes with OT5 moments.!

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when the OT5 manage to make up and go on the stage together, I swear the feels will be like getting DBSK a reunion concert.

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I am at this point in this drama where EVERY character (maybe except Crude Play) gets on my nerves, but I can still understand their behaviour.

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RIGHT? I don't like it, but I *understand* where they come from! It's brilliant!

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It is so difficult. I think, I start to understand why people like makjang, you like the good guys, you hate the bad ones, and here I don't know what am I supposed to feel to those grey ones

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Okay so I am starting my "why I hate him/her list".

-Chan Young -I know you are a nice guy, but if you want to prove yourself do it by writing a better song than the one Hang Gyul wrote. Have we even seen him actually writing songs? All he does is getting mad at Han Gyul and showing So Rim what a layered person he is.

-So Rim -why is she even jealous? Han Gyul came first to So Rim and THEN went to Yoo Na, he is a songwriter, of course it would be a shame if one of his song is left unheard. And I don't like how much time she spends with Chan Young, I know she doesn't mean it in romantic way, but riding in other guys car, holding hands, going to empty spaces is still weird. If someone has rights to feel jealous it is Han Gyul.

- Yoo Na -this girl makes feel sorry for her and THAN she does something awfull. I don't even get why she showed Han Gyul's music to So Rim, she isn't even in love with Han Gyul.
BTW, I can't hate her (maybe dislike) for cheating as it isn't like Han Gyul ever cared for her(maybe for her voice).

-Han Gyul- You are a douchbag, you don't understand people around you and you can't listen. Is it that hard to understand that his girlfriend tries to make a right choice and his friends might ALSO like music/want to show their music to world?

And the only problem I have with Crude Play and everyone on this show is how they try to make Jin Hyuk a bad guy, it is his work to make them shine and what he told to Crude Play was true -it is not only about you, there are tons of people working behind you. He had the right to be mad, because it might have costed him and tons of people a job, it was an issue HE had to take responsibility for. He was mad for their thoughtless action.

But Han Gyul being mad was different, it was more about "how can you not be happy with all the attention you get with your little talent? What more do you need?" and it really must hurt, because he was their friend, the one who was there from the start, who heard their songs, who loves the music the most and the one who should be able to understand.

I hope next episode would be better and can our OTP not have any more fights? I like them a lot more when they are together and happy

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We've seen Chan young in the recording room several time and always getting involved, or studying So rim voice and writing a song for her. Plenty of stars start something but get lazy and just do the motions, he's clearly making an effort and working hard, just like he promised So Rim. Speaking of So Rim I don't see a problem with her hanging out and becoming friendly with Chan Young. It's important for her to establish a close relationship with him. People in the industry get close to each other even when they're not from the same company or careers. He's her producer, and has been supporting her since the start, and they've been confiding to each other too.

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But as So-rim's producer, he should be doing what's best for her. We've seen multiple times before that Chan-young wants her to be completely loyal to him, even when it's not best for her career. He shouldn't get brownie points for making an effort if it's clearly not benefitting Muse & Co, which should be the most important thing.

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Yes, but that's the thing... he no longer would be the producer if they're given HG's song. That would be HG who would take charge and produce them. And I believe he genuinely feels confident about his own song, so he doesn't see it as not benefitting Muse & Co.

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Agree. Plus CY was the one who wanted Mush and co to do that awful lip sync thing at the start. If not for HG rearranging the song, Mush and co would have been a laughing stock and never debuted.

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but micky, they could have been an even worse laughing stock if So Rim froze up and couldn't sing. This was an audition program after all. He had his reason for wanting them to lipsync. The performance turned out well, but could have turned equally horrible.

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@selma True what you said. But to me that speaks more of the fact that CY doesn't have faith in So rim, and that he is willing to take the easier/safer way out rather than push her to be the best that she can be. And that's not what I would want if I were So Rim. Contrast to HG who has always had 100% faith in So Rim delivering.

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Agree with most of what you said, except that I think we do see CY making an effort, but I just don't like his sneaky manipulations. And you're right, if anybody has the right to get annoyed, it should be HG, not SR. I find that she likes to do the whole teary eyed, sad that he doesn't like me as much as I like him thing, but I think it's a little overdone. Especially when she hangs around CY so much!

Also really agree that it's not Mr Choi's fault at all. He has a ton of responsibilities, employees who are dependent on him, etc. It was irresponsible of Crude Play to do what they did and while I understand how they feel, Mr Choi isn't necessarily a "villain" here. I think the thing with HG is that deep down he understands Mr Choi's motivations and reasons for his actions. HG is part of the industry after all, and he should know how it works. He just doesn't want to admit that and it makes him extra harsh on his friends. At the same time though, Crude Play should realize that they can't always bank on the "you're our friend you should understand us" mindset. At the end of the day, their music is commercialized. It's business, and business isn't "friendly".

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Yes. That's the whole problem with this, because mixing business with relationship always spell trouble. Ask anyone who is doing business with friends or family. Though I can't blame the Crude Play boys for being disappointed when the friendship they had with Han-gyul has turned into a cold business one.

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I'm still mad at Crude Play for uploading their videos and almost putting everyone out of a job, including Shi Hyun's Soo Yeon Sunbae. They clearly weren't looking at the big picture.

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Now that you say so...did you notice..how normalised Crude Play has been for us. I was simply seeing them as boys trying to make music and have some fun. We were so involved with their personal bonding. But yes this fiasco reminded me big time that these are big stars we are talking about..not some dreamy eyed novices. STill, live them to bits

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I want to start out by saying that Choi min soo is my ahjussi crush. He is so hot to me. That being said Han-gyul deserved every bit of the dribbling he received from everyone. He needed to hear it. What he said to So-Rim was so mean and unnecessary and I hope she doesn't talk to him for most of next episode. She deserves better and I'm so happy she is keeping her promise, because it shows her character.

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I want to add my favorite ship on this show is Shi-Hyun and Soo-Yeon, I am all in. haha

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Agreed! Those two were unexpectedly cute in their blip of a scene. Can we have more of them?

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I said a prayer and an Amen.

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I've been onto this pairing since her first little hint of a crush on him! I'm loving how they're progressing. He's so cute, always looking for her and teasing her. I replayed him answering her phone call like a million times, which means they definitely need more scenes!

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HAha, I like your reasoning. They have more chemistry than some OTP's I've seen.

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How can we not love the scene? The super handsome man (adult) acting like ordinary (high school) boy in love. Ohhh my heartteu ....

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I'm happy that I'm not the only one who finds Choi Min-soo attractive in this! His smile is just so cute.

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I'm so used to seeing him scruffy that he looks so much more attractive when he cleans up a bit and shaves/

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I have loved him since he rocked his satoori in Pride & Prejudice, bad hair and all.

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I really really like him. I'm surprised that he was so handsome. Had image of him from running man as the "hunter" And his acting, isn't it deep? Didn't look like he was acting at all, very natural.

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I'm really impressed by how good and honest a person So Rim is.

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Choi Minsu is a really good singer also. Check out him and Sandeul singing on Immortal Song at 1:04:00, one of my favorite performances on the show. If you have time, watch the whole thing, it's so funny how everyone's scared of Choi Minsu.
https://youtu.be/lHZcK8uAu_g?t=1h4m4s

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Also watch his episode on I can see your voice 3. It was one of the greatest episode, and he was a great guest.

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Link here for subbed episode of Choi Min Soo. The one who subbed this subbed season 2 and 3. Season 1 was subbed by Teuk Angel, and Season 4 is being subbed.

https://ohmygeona.blogspot.com/2016/07/eng-sub-i-can-see-your-voice-season-3_12.html

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I love that show. I never guess right. :3

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This is supposed to be the reason why mush refused hangyul. It is because of him, not chan-young. Because she knows she would hurt him through music. That's why she stubbornly refuse his song. It is to protect him.

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Yes. The reason he hates girls who sing, is because he all ends up hurting them, but he gets hurt too in the process. He needs to stop.

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And at the end of the day, when mush & co. finally released their first single, han-gyul then would asks which song she likes better. The one he wrote or chan-young's. And she would answer without a doubt the she likes chan-young's better. Not because it is chan-young's but because it is her song! So of course she would adore her song more. Chan-young's private desire would have nothing to do with her decision. She doesn't want to let him involve in her music metamorphosis, because she doesn't want them to end up hurting each other because of music. Like what had happened now. Well, that is supposedly.

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This is her career path, which she started independently from Hangyul and with Chan-young from the beginning. Han-gyul just came in between in the middle and wanted her to sing his song. I understand why she wanted to stick to her initial plan with Chan-young. He can't blame her for that.

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I thought it was obvious that she liked Han-gyul's song more? Like when it was revealed that Chan-young's song was chosen, So-rim was disappointed because she knows Han-gyul's song was better.

That's an interest reason as to why she didn't choose Han-gyul's song, I didn't think about it like that. The most obvious reason is because of the promise, but as you said, it's also deeper than that.

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I think it's only human of her to be a little disappointed no matter how much she wants to keep the promise. It was obvious when she listened to his song that she was touched. I wonder what the lyrics are?

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Well, I'm just retelling what was "supposed" to happen base on the original story. Of course So-rim can't get han-gyul's song out of her head. She is madly in love with crude play K's songs afterall. In fact, she kept refusing to listen to his song because she knows she wouldn't be able to resist the desire to sing it if she ever listen to it. But if she does sing his song, she would break her promise to protect him from music. So she always refuses him. But in the other hand, chan-young's song is her song. Her own pride. The thing she can put her name on it. No matter how much she loves K's song, it is not hers if she refuse to own it, that's why she would always put her song over han-gyul's anytime. And grab chan-young's hand in music instead of his. Han-gyul could be sulking, but he could never win over her in this. She is that firmed. Well, again, it is just the reasoning of the original story. Like, 'actually this is what supposed to be the reason why things turn the way they are'. Because for me, this background is a lot easier to digest.

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@lunticandra I does help digest it better. Maybe Sorim will explain to Hangyul later on. Hopefully.

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Excuse me, but what makes HG so different from CY after all? He misled her into thinking he gave that song to Yuna even though he didn't. Just to get her insecure enough to accept his song. From the get-go, all he wanted, was to use her to sing his song. CY is right, he is using her feelings for him.

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I think it's been shown throughout the episodes that HG does genuinely care about So-rim (giving the arrangement credit to CY, for example). I think like festerfaster said, he took her rejection of his song as rejection of him and he was hurt, so he lashed out and said things that he shouldn't have. And while I don't condone his actions at all (I was absolutely furious when he said he wouldn't see her again) he ended up going back to apologize, which makes me think this was an emotional one-time thing.

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Great comment. I agree. I was like, "no, no, no, don't go there!" I was glad he turned around and ran back ... of course it was only in time to find that he just drove her into the arms of his rival. But this is how he will learn ... hopefully.

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Plus, he has been frustrated from all sides all day long. Everyone has been abandoning him. His father left the house, his band members don't want him, Jinhyuk is manipulating him, and Sorim rejecting him was the last straw that broke him.

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I was going to try and say something like that but I saw your comment. ?

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I think it's only now that HG is learning the ropes of being in a relationship that's not tinted with business and money. This blossoming relationships with So Rim is innocent. HG always slow in the uptake like complimenting and treating So Rim nicely .. And because he's so slow CH always fills in like how he was there to comfort So Rim only after HG realized the effects of his words.

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It makes for good comic effect at times. Both Jin-woo and Han-gyul having problems telling So-rim she's pretty, but Chan-young having no qualms saying it gives them jealous faces, which is so funny.

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I know! It's like HG's reactions is a mix of annoyance at himself and at CY

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But stull comes back to the question of what's his difference to Chanyoung then, because as far as i can see, Chanyoung genuinely cares for Soorim as well (like when he gave in to HanGyeol's rearrangement of the song so Soorim can perform live in that competition). Chanyoung also apologized when he realized how hurt Soorim was when he revealed HanGyeol was K. I am also not condoning Chanyoung's actions, in any way, but still what is HanGyeol's difference?

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Not much in my view. I find it interesting how little middle ground there is among the comments. It's either this one, or the other. I say, they're both flawed for Sorim, but both with individual strengths that the other doesn't have when dealing with Sorim. The difference in choice will be of course, that Sorim likes one, and not the other.

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His overall intent is different. HG wrote the song with his emotions for So rim who he is falling in love with. So the fact that she doesn't want to hear it hurts him a lot. You can say that CY also wrote a song for So Rim, but I'd say his intent is more to prove himself as a song writer/producer, and write a good song for her, rather than express his feelings towards So Rim. Also, i deeply dislike how CY has been goading HG repeatedly and insisting that he is better for So Rim compared to CY. Especially when he Knows that So rim likes HG and that he likes her back.

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I'm with you on this.

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I might have interpreted this wrong... but when Chan-young was talking about how Han-gyul is bad for So-rim, he was not talking about it musically, but relationship-wise. So he didn't compare himself with Han-gyul on that regard, or said he was better as a romantic partner for So-rim, as there is no romance between him and So-rim. I interpreted it that he said Han-gyul involving himself with So-rim's life is worse because there is emotional complication involved. She's young, and Chan-young feels like Han-gyul is leading her on with his ambiguous involvement. Chan-young is free of that involvement, by virtue that So-rim isn't in love with him.

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He is not using her. He is obsessed with her voice, and she became a major source of inspiration for his songs. He just thinks of her and the music is flooding his mind, probably enhanced by the fact that he is starting to fall for her. He is now only writing for her, wishing to hear the songs written by him sang in her voice. I think the song's succes, the response of the public, the money it could generate him, the influence of this on his producer career hardly registrates in his mind at the moment. He is a music obsessed freak. This is different from CY, who has other priorities.

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It's so sad and frustrating that the thing Han Gyul loves the most hinders his relationships with other people. It's not really his fault that he's been roped into writing that other girl's song. I get that he hurt So Rim but it's unreasonable for her to get jealous over him writing a song (song writing is his job after all) while she can hold hands with Chan Young and make promises with him. I'm pretty sure if she ever heard of Han Gyul making a promise with Yuna (hypothetically speaking) the whole episode would be full of her crying. Overall this show is just packed full of layers of misunderstandings but I'll still watch the next episodes, with hope that the OTP can be salvaged (that almost kiss! Why you do this Chan Young?)

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She's not jealous that he wrote Yoona a song, it's the fact that he (supposedly) gave the song he wrote for Sorim to Yoona that hurt her.

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If he gave it to Crude Play do you really think she would be that hurt?

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She would still feel hurt that the song he wrote for her is given to someone else. And yes, the fact that it's given to his ex-girlfriend hurts more. That's a given.

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And to think that that whole conversation would have gone totally different if he had just said he had no idea what she was talking about... Kdrama logic

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Well, he was about to say exactly that, but thought against it and had the brilliant idea to use her jealousy for his cause. This is totally a case of sabotaging yourself.

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I want to say, it is han-gyul 'I don't want to lie to her anymore' logic that makes him do so. But that's sadly not the reason. He did it just to corner her to be the ally of his music. Which is totally uncool.

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That was a moment of weak character from him. I don't mean weak characterization (it makes him more complex and human). If we think about it, So rim has the strongest character, she sticks by what she believes in.

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@Wun Vo: the boy is chaos after all. He couldn't think straight. I would simply forgive his immature act if only he didn't make Sorim cry...

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@lunaticandra Yes... it was the crying part that hurt my feels. Sorim can do heartbroken too well.

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I think Soorim was hurt because it IS her song. In my perspective, I understand why she's hurt, it was written for her, like a love letter, it's absurd to have other people read your love letter. Also, is no one gonna question Yoona here? That was jerk move on her side, I get that she's insecure but she's older, where has her reason and maturity gone to, it's not Soorim's fault people are drawn to her. And Soorim can touch Chanyoung because there are no romantic feelings involved, on Soorim's side. Meanwhile, Yoona was HanGyeol's ex, if there's an episode where HanGyeol promises Yoona things and Soorim sees, I can also understand why she'd be upset. Let's be real, if I see my boyfriend in a vicinity with his ex, I'd be paranoid as well, especially if she's 'more glamorous and prettier than me', which is how Soorim sees Yoona.

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Oh boy did Hangyul have an open-mouth-insert-foot spree this episode. I understand where he comes from, but now he has double the everything to make up for!
I also felt pretty bad for literally everybody HG crapped on this episode, but no one more than Sorim, who was nothing but an innocent bystander.
I still love this show for being so realistic though! <3 Welldone.

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Yes, I like that this show doesn't run away from deep-seated problems and confront them right on. They use all the potential problems possible and develop them into real conflicts that will take time and maturing to solve. But it's also why I'm afraid for Mush & Co. Because there were hints too, that their rushed debut could be a problem, and that the friendship they have might not survive the other two resentment of being compared to Sorim. From what I know of this show, if there is a potential problem, it means future conflict. I'm scared.

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It just makes me anxious to see how HG makes up for his actions. Last time it was the re-arrangement of the song for the live broadcast saving our young band which was the highlight moment of the show. What will he have to do now?

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A super romantic event with flowers in the middle of a public space (one can hope....)

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Yes, I hope it's something super cheesy as well. But I also want it to mean something, too!

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I trust the writer will come up with something... ;)

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Yeah, I like how writer-nim twists the usual romantic tropes with just the right amount of cheese and realism. So hopefully, a nicely done PPL with sugary toppings. :3

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My favorite part is still the kneed in the jewels bit. I found it so sweet when So Rim was touching his head, but at the same time, the result of his head being touched was the start of comedy. LOL

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Totally agree with you on this. There were so many times when HG was hurtful and mean this episode. He's brutally honest to a fault and to his detriment. It's like he has no filter when it comes to relationships and telling people what he REALLY thinks and REALLY feels about them and their talents. (Sometimes in life, it's better to take the high road...) HG has his head so high in the clouds with his pursuit of music/musical perfection that he has a really difficult time with his relationships - his poor "average" friends can't match his expectations and can't play his brilliant music. And the one girl who could possibly be compatible with him, he manipulates and treats horribly. I was so mad at him when he gave SR that ultimatum - oh no, you didn't just do that! He deserves to lose her if he plays that card. Because HG is so musically gifited and almost obsessed with musical perfection - and because he is young and inexperienced in life & relationships - that it makes for a very sad, painful and messy situation for all of them... and that's not always something time can heal... (but in Dramaland, it'll eventually be worked out - always keeping my ? fingers crossed for the Happy Ever After! ?)

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That's the beauty of dramaland. Especially korean rom-coms. Happy endings!

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On Father:
- He can't just waltz into his son's life and then leave it, and waltz back whenever he wants. I get that he's afraid of Hangyul for some reasons yet to be revealed but still...

On Hangyul: he's so focused on the fact that Sorim needs to sing his song that he's not playing fair. Seeing her cry in Chanyoung's arm better be the catalyst for him to wake up and see that his obsession with music is ruining everything.

On Sorim: poor little innocent lamb, getting involved into a war full of wolves.

Crude Play: I'm totally rooting for them to get out of their lie, but they've been playing along with it for so long. They can't have the cake and eat it too. Either they get honest with their skills, and get all the criticism that goes with it, or fake it and get the praise and fame. They can't have both fame and bad skills.

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I think that I sympathize a lot with SR (stuck in a game played by wolves), but at the same time I think she's a little... naive. It's a very romantic idea, having a song written for you and all that, but it's also unrealistic to think that a songwriter will stay pining for you to sing his song, and leave the song unreleased. Does that make sense? Obviously the whole "I wrote a song for you", and "I'll sing your song" is something that is emotionally significant, but honestly after she turned down his song, I don't really see anything wrong with it going to Yuna. Though I'll say that HG was a bit of a jerk with threatening not to see her again if she didn't sing his song. Agree with Crude Play! They can't expect 0 sacrifices to be stars.

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It's not wrong, but it's only natural that she gets hurt regardless. He said he would write a song for her, then she said she can't sing it for 3 years, not for ever, and then, he makes her think he gave it to Yoona. He said he would root for her and support her musically when he first met her, so I agree that she's a bit naive, but he has done said romantic stuff enough for her to have cause to interpret it emotionally.

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That's true! (Though ah, 3 years is a very long time...). I do think HG was a bit of a jerk to make her think that he'd given it to YN. Sort of like an emotional manipulation because he knew how much she liked him. Honestly though it's because of how simplistic and innocent she is that the others get to manipulate her around like this, which is why I do feel bad for her. Sigh.

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Well, there is a reason why Jin Woo and Gyu Sun said they could never leave So Rim alone to navigate the world. LOL.

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honestly a lot of problems could've been avoided if she told him that she'll sing his song but NOT YET. HG mentioned that it doesn't have to be her debut song, he just wants her to sing his song. Why couldn't she say yes but NOT YET? I was really frustrated at SR on this tbh

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I think SHE DID mention it. She said she could not sing his song for 3 YEARS. That's a definite time.

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I think Lee Hyun Woo should go military and come back with a new image or he's gonna stuck high school roles - ish for a while

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Well he's still pretty young, so I don't think it's bad if he takes advantage of the young roles offered to him. As he ages, he'll mature more and be given more mature roles... probably.

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i'd love him to play high schoolish roles for another 3 years while he can. haha.

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True! Career-wise, it might mean he's going to be around for quite a while, doing younger roles and all that. Then he can move on to more adult-ish roles where he won't look out of place because of his puppy looks.

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I like what this show is doing with So-Rim. She feels like a beloved younger cousin where you see glimpses of the awesome adult she can become--good for her for feeling confident in how pretty she looked and felt in her dress and makeup and making sure that Han Kyul saw it.

Unlike the other characters (CY, HG)where we understand but may not like why they do certain things, I do wonder if we don't have Director Choi's backstory because his moral compass has been lost. Even when he does something that seems supportive in one act, it's too easy for him to make a backroom deal in the next breath. I think he serves as a warning to Han Gyul of what his future could be--professionally successful but absent of friendship and love. (I really ached for HG in this episode; his focus towards music can be so singular that he can be a real jackass but he knows when he hurts those around him, and it hurts more because those moments both underscore some hard truths and feed into the negative ways he views himself.)

Interestingly (and this was brought up by @Satinder in the Ep 7 comments) I thought CEO Yoo was the typical villain but that oversimplifies the character. She can be as cunning and ruthless as Director Choi but I sensed a tension at how people like her dad underestimate her. We have watched her efficiently tamp down scandals, and I wonder if an internalized bias (my own, not accusing anyone) at wanting to see women as nurturing types helps frame her as the obvious villain. She's extremely qualified for her job, she knows the goings on in the company and cares about its success; it's not in the job description to give out hugs. In fact, I'd take a cold stare from her as more honest than a hug from Director Choi.

And does anyone else feel this way, but the immature child in me snorted after hearing so much "Take my song!" "No, take my song!" "I don't want any other woman to sing my song ever!" Like damn, can't a girl graduate high school first before she's supposed to sing one guy's song forever?

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"Like damn, can't a girl graduate high school first before she's supposed to sing one guy's song forever?" LOL. True.

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Finally, people are on board with me about how bad this show is. I've only been following the recaps because I have been boycotting this show from the start and not watching it. I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. I hate it that they casted Joy just because she's an sm idol, so if I don't want them to cast idols, I better not watch it. Even on still images, it's obvious her acting is unnatural.
I'm glad to see people are finally waking up and disliking this too.

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I wonder if it's Joy fans commenting in the other recaps, and now that things are going bad in this drama, real non-Joy fans are finally commenting about things are bad? Things would make sense if this is the case.

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I, for one, am not on board with you. I really like Joy's acting and voice. It is just that this is the mid-point of the drama where it needs to get all angsty and stuff. So viewers are responding to where the story is going which is to be expected.

But you are completely entitled to your opinions.

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I agree. @Yukiniwan is misunderstanding people's response on here. We're not dissatisfied at the drama. It's a credit to the drama that it can create characters complex enough you get frustrated with them but want to root for them to make up.

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I am just curious about one thing, how are you supposed to mention and tag name?

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just put the @ sign in front of the name....

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Well, it certainly looks to me as if a lot of people are unhappy watching this.

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Look at comment 26 for example. It confirms my opinion that this drama is badly written.

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There's only one way I confirm if a drama is badly written or not. I watch and judge for myself. Simple as that.

I didn't think this drama would be all that great and I questioned Joy's casting, but then I marathoned all 8 episodes and found it surprisingly engaging and satisfying. Frustrating at times, yes. But in the best way.

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I for one havent seen this much of cute, innocent and beautiful new actress who can win over viewers hearts in ages after kim soo hyun, yoojung. It almost means last 5 years or so. But this is my opinion.

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I beg to differ. One can judge without watching.

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Why would you hate Joy's casting when you haven't even watched her act?

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Because she's is an idol going into acting. Do the math...

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Okay, let's do the math then if you so want it. How many idols that are going into acting and ended up blowing our mind? Or you can't mention any because you always boycott every drama that cast idols?

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I looked into Yukiniwan's "MY SHOWS" tab, and there are idols in it. Not to be mean, but some dramas had quite awful acting too, from supposed "actors/actresses." What's up with that... They must hate Joy or something.

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@Selma If you find the acting in those shows bad, fine, it's your taste. But then, just imagine how much worse idols are if actresses are already bad. See my point? And I don't hate Joy, I just hate idols who think they can waltz into acting without any consequences.

@lunaticandra I boycott dramas with SM idols mostly. The idols only got the role because of SM and they're all bad to mediocre at most. JYP being the second-biggest idol agency is also bad, but not as bad. I also boycott dramas with Suzy in them for example.

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I boycott dramas from big agencies like SM, or Suzy from JYP for example. Notice, idols with big fandoms can't act. Small fandoms are okay.

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Hmmm. Looking at your header, you're a Lee Min Ho fan? Picking Suzy in particular can't have anything to do with the fact that he's dating her, does it?

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@Ziad No, it doesn't have anything to do with their relationship. I don't like it that he's dating someone who is so bad at acting. But it's a fact that she's bad, that's got nothing to do with the other stuff.

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Oooh, first time I used the dislike button. Yehey!!

Overall, this show is actually better than the average drama out there. It is full of angst, this episode is. But it doesn't diminished the quality of the drama. It might if the angst continues for two-three more episodes. You can feel victorious then. But for now, I'm just laughing at your comments.

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Me too. Last night, I was thinking so much about how are we supposed to use the down vote. It is almost impossible to hate any commentary in here. lol

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I haven't seen any thumbs down comment yet except this one. I guess congratulations to Yukinawa for the doubtful honor of getting the first... lol

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I don't think I wrote anything funny. Why would people be so pressed when I'm just talking the truth. Look at the ratings, they're abysmal.

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And yet the average user rating here is 4.7 out of 5. Why are you trying so hard? Are you Dododo1818 by any chance?

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In the previous recap, there was another person implying the ratings are so bad, and only Joy fans are watching. Is it the same person with Yukiniwan. LOL.

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I'm not Dodod1818, I don't even know who that is, never seen them on Dramabeans before. And no, I am not the same person on the previous recap. You just proved my point that people who are not Joy fans also dislike this. I'm not alone.

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Also, the ratings on here are done by the same fans who write comments here. It's not valid. This is why it's irritating to have idols in dramas, their fans just invade everything and make it seem like it's all wonderful. It happens with music too, idol music with big fandoms stay on top of charts not because it's good. The number doesn't mean anything when it involves idols.

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Just so you know, I didn't even know who Joy was until this drama. But I am a fan now. I even bought 3 of her OST songs from iTunes.

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Lol, I love you and your reference to Dododo1818, and @Yukiniwan won't get the reference because he HASN'T EVEN WATCHED THAT SHOW... surprise surprise lol...and this person is hating on a well rounded plot and well nuanced characters, HE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN. A catastrophe in the making.

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Hahahaha. Oh @YukiniWan, you are adorable. Dododo1818 is an internet and real life troll Se-jong, who keeps leaving negative comments on real_crudeplay's videos. In the show, that is. =) I have to keep reminding myself that the band isn't real in my world.

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We are looking at the other show's rating that slump miserably too, but understand all too well that it is not the standard of what is bad and what is good (I'm still broken hearted that WFKBJ has miserable fate with ratings). I am not saying Joy's performance is stellar too. I even agree with you, that Joy at the very important part seems to always fail to deliver emotions. And it is certainly would be better if another more mature and experience actress do her part. But that doesn't mean that she sucks beyond repair. She is doing fine. And that too of course doesn't make the show itself bad. You might not know, or even understand what people marveled about because you seem to boycott this show and refuse to watch it. But this show is far from what your claim as bad. These people in here are the proof.

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I also liked Weightlifting. The ratings for it were low, but they were steady and didn't drop and even increased. There were no idols, and Lee Sung Kyung is pretty and can sing. She could have taken this role here instead. Joy looks puffed in all the pictures I see, I don't get why she got casted besides SM. She's stealing the role from people like Lee Sung Kyung who are prettier and more talented. And people on here are all complaining about the characters, how does it make this show good?

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"Joy looks puffed" Please... she looks pretty and cute. You don't have to put down other girls just to praise another girl for being pretty.

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@YukiniWan

Can you stop saying that Joy got casted only because of SM. I'm not going to deny that her public name-recognition factor probably played a part, but then, most dramas had leads who had, at the very least, a modicum of name recognition. She didn't get the role out of nowhere, she auditioned, and didn't even know she got casted until the time it was announced. Also, let me tell you see: Yoona --> first drama role, Shi-hyun ---> first role, Yoon --> first role, Jin-woo ---> first role, Gyu-sun ---> first drama role, and first role in 10 years after a minor part in a movie, Sejung ---> first drama role (only one movie role), Soo-yeon ----> 2nd role after two years gap, first one was a minor part, even Chan-young only had 2 minor parts in 2 dramas and some movie before landing this

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@YukiniWan Joy is stealing? From Lee Sung Kyung? Did Lee Sung-Kyung or another prettier actress that the role you assume was stolen by Joy, even IN the audition? I don't even know how to respond your bashing that Joy should give up her role because she is not pretty. Do you... even know Riko? The original Mush? No, I am sure you are not. That's why you don't understand why she was chosen. Of course you don't know the reason why I am so tune in the drama is not because I am Joy's fans too. As much as your cluelessness over @mrchuckles joke about Dododo1818, you would never understand too that none of us in here, except you, think that this drama doesn't deserve the love.

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@lunaticandra LOL. It's hilarious how the Dododo18 reference totally passed over her head. Sigh at people who talk and get upset about things they barely know anything about.

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@Zhangni they might have casted the other rookies but not in the lead role. This is clear preferential treatment for SM.

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I haven't seen one comment yet saying the show is bad. The comments are mostly of people frustrated with the episode because well, it was a frustrating episode. Every drama has some of those. If you don't like Joy's acting or the show it's okay but don't go around saying everyone else hates it like you do. I am Joy's fan by the way, I've been a lurker here ever since the show started airing and just now made an account to respond to you. Barely any Joy fans know about dramabeans recapping this so I sincerely think there aren't many fans of her commenting here. I felt the need to defend the beanies who comment and genuinely like TLAHL.

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Thank you. (and welcome! I'm a lurker too, but TLAHL brought me out. :) )

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Well, I can't believe Joy fans don't know about dramabeans. You're the proof of it. And you just said you're a Joy fan, so why act like you're a Beanie.

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I'm not a Joy fan specifically, but I like red velvet enough I follow their news. And one OneHallyu, one of the biggest kpop forums, dramabeans recaps are not posted either on Red Velvet or Joy's thread. Red velvet big fandoms on twitter are not promoting dramabeans either. It's unjust to say it's only Joy fans who are commenting.

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So just because it's not posted on one forum and some twitter accounts, it means Joy fans are not here? You can't fool me, I've seen the comments in the news post on dramabeans before the drama aired, and Joy fans were defending her like crazy.

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Not everyone needs to know what Dramabeans is, to be honest. It's a great site and I love it, but most of my friends who watch Korean dramas don't know of its existence, or they don't bother reading it. Though I must say that being a Joy fan and a Beanie are not mutually exclusive, and there's no such thing as a "joy fan acting like a Beanie". It's meant to be an inclusive community regardless of who you like/dislike! (By the way I am not a Joy fan, but I believe she's doing fine in the show. Don't hate on the show just because you dislike the casting of Joy! The writing has been just fine).

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Well rest assured that i am not a fan of Joy or Red Relvet amd I have been a beanie for Dramas themselves, it's stories and plots and characters. You seem to hate idols, you must've never watched Eugene's dramas, or Yoon Eun Hye's, or YooChun's, Im Siwan's or Jung Eun Ji's. I must also advise you against Moonlight Drawn by Clouds, Legend of the Blue Sea, Goblin, Descendants of the Sun or for that matter, most KDrama's. Because believe it or not, not every idol is like Suzy or Yoona (sorry to their fans)

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I watch dramas with idols, just not idols from big agencies like SM and JYP, which you cited examples of: Yoona and Suzy. So you agree with me.

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Hello @yukiniwan, I'm a beanie (started following this blog because of I Hear Your Voice) who is definitely not a fan of Joy (I'm a 33 year old prosecutor who's too old for kpop). I am watching this drama at first because I love (shoujo) mangas and I saw the j-movie a few years back. But I can say, without a hint of bias or ill-will, that this drama is so satisfying for me -- yes, its clear most of the actors are green but the sheer heart bursting out from the wonderful writing and music and the charm of the cast makes this drama so addicting. I'm sorry you hate Joy and this show but that's your loss.

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(Also a lurker here) While I felt the acting was a little awkward the first two episodes, I'm super glad that I decided to stick around! Joy is really settling into her role, and doing very well for her first role. I hope that others will give the show a chance before writing it off just because there are idol actors ^^

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I respectfully disagree. I still remember watching Dream High and the Suzy Robot acting. And I firmly believe the greenies are doing a great job - especially Joy. She has this very...raw appeal. She makes me feel stuff.
PS: I've never hear any Red Velvet songs ever. Also, was never a Joy fan.

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Dream High was great, even with Suzy Robot, lol! I thought her robot-acting contributed great to her character. I haven't watched her other shows, but I thought the newbies/idols in Dream High did a great job; the show had a lot of heart. Honestly I'd expected Joy to not do so well because, newbie and idol and all (must admit I do have such prejudices), but she's honestly doing much better than I'd thought! Not a RV/Joy fan, but she's doing fine and so are the other idol actors in this show. Also, I might just like to add that Hyungsik was an idol-actor too and look how well he turned out. Heh. (Sorry had to inject SWDBS references here, hehe).

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YES! I see some great potential in Joy and the rest. She's doing a wonderful job with Sorim. There is such a raw innocent appeal in her Sorim which reflects on the overall drama and I absolutely ADORE IT! <3 <3

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I have questions: Why are you here if you are boycotting the show? Did you also know she was auditioned for it? Like a lot. Also did you know that most of the people on this site and these recaps for The Liar and His Lover either are watching this because 1) They like dramas 2) They like Lee Hyun-Woo (I'm on that position) 3) They like the original manga/movie it is based off. Not all of us are Joy fans. Not all of us watch and like this show because of Joy. So keep off these recaps, please.

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Im sad that you are being judgemental without even trying to watch the show.

Why believe in the typical social stereotypes?

Female = bad at sports and science. Male good at sports = jock = bad at studies. Young = immature and old = wise. And big company Idol = cannot act?

You will miss out on a lot of fun and enjoyment if you go through life always with preconceived ideas about people based on labels they are given. Just because she is from SM doesn't mean she has no acting talent. Not saying Joy is gonna get an oscar but I feel sad for her that people put her down without even bothering to see the final product. I think you would be sad too if people judged your work without even looking at it, just based on your name, or background or looks. Can't force you to watch this show, but who knows it may surprise you ?

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I'm sorry you feel that way. But I think you should give the show a chance before making a judgement. I'm not a K-pop fan so have never heard of Joy before this. But I felt she was the perfect casting for So-Rim. She's probably still a bit green but she's doing a really good job! It's such a refreshing watch. Just give it a try :)

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People are on board with you about how bad this show is?

You're literally the only one here LMAO

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It's probably that that person just skimmed through the comments, saw "frustrating," "mad" and other words in passing, and made that conclusion and projected her own feelings on others.

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This is the only thing I didn't want to happen if an idol was brought in an acting project.

I don't mind the fans, because if I'm watching the drama/movie, that means I like the drama to some degree and I can see why the idol's fans would like it too.

The idol's haters though? It's almost a given that wherever the idol goes, the haters follow too. They're literally littering around the comment section without making much sense. They stand out in the comment section because they sound extremely hateful AND unintelligent. I wish there was a filter somewhere.

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There are forums where you can choose to ignore/mute certain users. Maybe Dramabeans can introduce such function.

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@Sixfoxes agree.

I luff this show so far, and I like the direction it's heading. The angst factor feels real, character development is organic (no harmful makjang-ticides), and the green actors are a relief to my tired eyes. Green is good to look at here. ^__^

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Huh? You're boycotting it but reading the recaps? That is weirdly irrational. Joy is so natural and lovely to watch on screen. I really do not understand this trend for drama viewers to bash shows they don't like. A mature, rational response is to just stop watching the show, refrain from unnecessary comments, and go enjoy a show you want to watch.

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Yes, it doesn't make sense to me. I've seen a lot of commenters argue that it's their right to read recaps, even if they don't find it worth it to watch the show, but I personally can't relate. I've got better things to do with my time than waste it on something I don't like that isn't even an obligation.

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Yes, I can boycott watching a show and still read recaps. Like I can boycott going to someone's concert and still read news about that concert. When something is bad, criticism of it will let people know that quality is important. Otherwise, we'll keep getting bad dramas.

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After watching the first two episodes I never thought to come to a point where Jin-hyuk is my favourite character. After he explains the reasons behind the decisions he has made (since I'm not smart enough to figure it out on my own) I come to agree with him. He might be cold and a calculating buisnessman but he clearly has an eye for talent and now that his company is somewhat established, he can even take the time to develope his newest find instead of firing them of into ista-super-stardom.

I still enjoy all the other characters in this drama, but something about them just does't click with me the way it does with Jin-hyuk. I soooo want to like Han-gyul but he is not making it easy... please let him realize in the next couple episodes that hurting the people around him for the sake of his music is not the way to go. Pretty please.

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I found the reason that Jin-hyuk chose the song very thoughtful. He did it with the far future in mind. If he chose Han-gyul song, the arrangement would be too perfect, So-rim would fall into the habit of wanting to protect the song and sing it as it is. She might even develop an inferiority complex like Chan-young musically. He learned the danger of letting Han-gyul take charge of the music from the start from Crude Play.

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I agree with you. I was even surprised with his reason. He is a business man and of course he will always have money in his intentions but I don't paint him as an evil person either.

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I really liked his explanation and reasoning behind choosing CY's song over HG's now that he has gotten a better feel for SR's talent and potential. And it sets up so much drama between SR, HG, CY, and YN.

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I think Jin Hyuk wants to avoid repeating the mistake he made with the crude play boys. He's very clever and business savvy that way - which I love. Also i'm wondering how he'll manage to evade the whole wedding thing...

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Yoona can't be thrilled about it when she hears. It isn't exactly good for her career either. It's sacrificing hers for Crude Play's.

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The wedding thing isn't JH and YN you know. It is some other celebrity named Jeon Ji Hye from the WHO agency.

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You may be right. Jin-hyuk really didn't seem startled enough to be the unwitting bridegroom. But the subs just said: How about a full page spread about THEIR wedding -- Yoo. So, it wasn't clear whose wedding she talked about. Was it clearer in Korean or was the dialogue that ambiguous too?

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Omg yes! There's something about JH that makes him more authentic. He doesn't sugar coat things and tells them like it is. And his actions seem to be very thoughtful. I really like him too!

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Yeah, a part of me likes him too. His instinct and natural flare for business is really, wow. But at the same time, I wanna punch him in the face and he's the last person I'll most likely trust because he throws lies like his leftover food.
I must say, this show is really convincing with it's character, when they said Hangyeol is a genius producer, bam great song everywhere. When they said CEO Yoo is really really CEO like when she squashed rumors on Crudeplay. Jin Hyuk as a favored businessman by the owner of WHO Ent, bam, great marketing her and there. They said Soorim has clear honest voice, she sings the hell out of a newly arranged song 30minutes after she first heard it. To say I'm thrilled is an understatement.

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Yes, agree with your point on character building. There's little to no contradictions so far.

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You just figured out why this drama is like crack for so many of us. =D The production team behind this is making me very, very happy!

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There might have been one (or multiples), but I can't remember when he told a lie to his artists...? And he is most certainly very straight forward with the truth when talking to the rest of his empleyees. I mean he just told that assistant girl why he picked CY's song. But maybe his dazzling PR-face just got to me... absolutly an option here.

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You can see Chan Young's immaturity when he chooses to blame Han Gyul for everything rather than Jin Hyuk, who actually made the choices to switch out the band members. He's too focused on his own pride and bitterness to realize HG isn't his enemy and that he should work on himself rather than just focusing on beating HG. Of course, Han Gyul isn't that much more mature considering how he treats his friends this episode.

In conclusion, *bored voice* men.

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I wonder if CY even realizes that his rivalry with HG is really one-sided, as HG has never really stooped to his level until this episode. Honestly, Jin-hyuk is the real enemy and they should all band together against him...

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I agree that HG isn't really his enemy, but the problem is JH pitting HG as the enemy by always putting him first against Crude Play. HG has been given leeway to choose the song last minute, fire musicians, etc. for 5 years. This is the first time he's been seriously challenged. From CY's perspective, it must be very frustrating because it's not as if he's untalented. But he's never even been given a chance and has to fight every step of the way. It feels bad enough when you feel like second best, but this is not the case here. JH doesn't even treat CY like second best, he dismisses him completely from the start until CY insisted. And even then, he continued to dismiss CY and treat him like a disposable backup for HG. So it's understandable why CY feels like HG is his rival. Or why CY wants to get out of HG's shadow and Crude Play and do his own thing. He can't want to be a puppet replacement and unheard band members forever. SR is the only one who listens to him.

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I don't know if So Rim is the only one who listens to him. When you think about it, she's actually the only one he's been so honest with. When he tries to be honest with the guys, it always comes out as spite, jealousy, pride etc, which makes it hard for them to hear what he's actually trying to say. But when he talks to SR, he lets her see the vulnerable side of him and has a focus on his feelings instead of what others do wrong. It's hard for the guys to really listen to him, if he (somewhat understandably) can't get himself to open up to them in that way. He only ends up blaming them when he half-heartedly tries to open up and that obviously doesn't work that well.

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Your comment really made me think. It's possible Chanyoung has been putting barriers between himself and the boys because in the beginning of him joining them, it was them who put a barrier between them. So then he put up his own barriers. But with Sorim, she doesn't put a barrier between herself and anyone. She just opens herself up to everyone genuinely, so it makes it that he doesn't put up a barrier with her? I don't know if I make sense.

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Makes a lot of sense! That CY quickly gave up trying to be friends with the group because they weren't immediately open to him, which then made them closed even more etc, in a sort of vicious circle, is something I've been trying to find the words to express for a while. Sort of like being caught in the friendzone perhaps lol? Like, once you get there, it's hard to make the first move, pour your heart out and change the relationship?

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I feel like he's knows it's one-sided but he thinks it's because HG has it made while he's struggling to overcome HG's talent and success, where in reality they were both talented kids being used by an adult who cares about money. CY is desperate to overtake HG in terms of talent but he can't and he hates him for it and HG is stuck taking all his hate and his attempts to steal his almost-girlfriend.

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Yes!! Jin Hyuk I dislike you! He is playing them all- he made Han Kyeol believe he is only good as a composer and not as a bass player. He made Chan Young believe he is a second rate, always playing second fiddle to Han Kyeol.
The other Crude play members believe their playing will never be good enough and they should be thankful with what they have now despite really how very sad it is.
And now he is manipulating So rim and Yoona too.
He is fast becoming my least favourite character. Just behind Director Yoo. I only enjoy the scenes they are in together because they are both so nasty, it's fun to see them backstab each other, since I don't mind if both self destruct ?

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Yes, but @michykdrama don't you love the complexity of Jin-hyuk's character? Yes, he's manipulative af, but he does care for them in his own way. And he's human too. Just look at his helplessness where Yoo-na is concerned. He clearly likes her (wont say love) but he can't protect her or her career without using underhanded methods. And this in turn is harming Yoo-na's mental balance.

As an aside, they did Yoo-na's descent really well. I had hoped and hoped she wouldn't go into bitter ex territory, but coupled with the way her career is going and how Han-gyul is treating her, I can see why she would focus on So-rim as the source of her pain. MAJORLY misguided but makes sense.

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Yes, I agree with you that his character is very nuanced and complex and (sadly) real-to-life. I can imagine lots of characters like him exist in real life, manipulating the So Rims, Han Gyuls and Yoonas of the real world, but also wanting to find love somehow. :( But still doesnt make me like him as a character though :P

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This is what makes me love this drama. It's a youth show, yes, with lots of green actors, yes, but the characters are not flat at all. Some are like dear siblings we like to squish, cuddle, and protect, while the others are like those we'd rather avoid in real life. :3

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You described how I felt about Jinhyuk and Yoona perfectly. :)

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Which also points out what HG said there really can't be a winner when the other one is not trying to win. I think this is also true for HG and CY as well as SR and HG. There were a few scenes where I expected HG to punch CY but he didn't, he always tried to explain himself or comforted CY, at least here we see the good person HG is. I actually like the dynamics of their relationship. HG only put his foot down when personal feelings with SR was involved and I love that!

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OMG, I love your username! It's giving me so many Seo In Gook vibes!! :D

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I agree, JH really is the one to blame here. Crude Play/K were still just teens when they signed, they were easily manipulated by him and couldn't foresee possible consequences. And yes, CY would be much better off "working on himself" a bit more. All five Crude Play guys need to work on themself to be a better group - three of them are trying to by practise and HG is without even knowing it slowly being changed for the better by SR, so now it's only CY missing.

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Word.

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Thank you. Your comment is the answer to my forever question on why I can't seem to get completely on Chanyoung's side even if I understand him. That's it. His misplaced bitterness on HanGyeol, even if it's not even HanGyeol's fault.

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I swear Chanyoung is always supposedly busy with schedules, but somehow always finds the time to find Sorim. Hangyul you're not even doing anything so why you got to ignore her calls and let her find you!!! And then be mad about it later!!!

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He needs to mature or he'll keep getting dumped.

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Bwahaha. Well spotted. =D

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I wonder...If So-rim does start to critique Chan-young's songs, will his feelings for her change? He obviously can't handle Jin-hyuk or Han-gyul's critiques (even though neither of them said it in an insulting manner), so how's he going to handle So-rim's, the one who he expects to just listen and trust him?

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Ooohhh hadn't thought about that, interesting! Maybe he'll just throw her away and get deeper into the victim-feeling? That would be bad for everyone involved. Yet I can't really imagine him actually being okay with it or rational about it. He does expect her to be the only one on his side, especially now that she's reconfirmed her promise to him.

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It will be interesting to see how the drama goes with this. If he's ok with it, I can only speculate that it would be because he sees her as a partner, but the other two as foes.

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Agreed. But it can also be more hurtful to have someone you truly care for (if he really does? even if not in a romantic way?) criticize you, than someone you resent anyway.

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But you also tend to be more defensive and confrontational when you already see someone negatively. And you can take criticism more easily when you feel friendly with the one who said it? Or is it just me being like that? lol

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That's why I said "can be" :) I think it depends a lot on your personality, the way things are said, how confident you are in the area being criticized etc. It can go both ways depending on how she'd phrase it, what he'd be feeling at the time and the exact nature of their relationship.

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Glad you mentioned it. I also think that HG hasn't said anything in an insulting manner. When he points mistakes out, he hasn't been a jerk about it. I think the reason why the people around him get hurt when he says something is because of their own insecurities.

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Well, just to present an opposing point... it's rather upsetting and offensive to hear that you have no worth musically, given that music is their career. Han Gyul have been treating them as worthless in that regard, telling them they can just handsync the new song, acting as if the music they produce is of no value, etc. He has a point, but I can't blame them for taking offense.

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Now that you mentioned it, I realized that HG can be brutal when it comes to his obsession for musical perfection. That is, he insisted a live performance for SR during the BTBC show because that's how much he regards her talent, whereas he was okay with Crude Play hand-syncing because he has always thought of their skills as not good enough for a live performance.

On the other hand, I do wonder how the scene could've played out if Crude Play (upon realizing their desire to perform live), reached out to HG for help?

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Ah... the what if... I would like to know the answer to that question too. I guess we'll just have to satisfy ourselves with how Hangyul and Crude Play will make up now.

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Let's see. Maybe because he trusts her, he'll finally consent to bw corrected, please surprise us show.

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Today was a merry-go-round of depressed and selfish people. Who knew every member of Crude Play, including ex-member Han Gyul, was this depressed and wants out? For the sake of their sanities, they need to break up the band and quit this trash company with its trash CEO. I loved Shi Hyun and Han Gyul's fight. It was a long time coming with pent-up feelings they harbored for years but were too afraid to express. I refuse to take sides because both sides were right. Shi Hyun was right when he said, "I feel so inadequate when I'm with you," which was exactly what Chan Young said and exactly what Yoo Na said. When five different people all say the same thing, shouldn't you think that maybe you're the problem? I'm not saying it's Han Gyul's fault since he has never looked down on them for being less talented than he is, nor do I think it's something Han Gyul can change because that's just who he is, but he is the common denominator. In his defense, Han Gyul was right when he asked, "Why do I need to watch them?" and "Is that why you want to ruin all of us?" From the beginning, I was against Crude Play selfishly uploading their videos. And under the name REAL Crude Play nonetheless! I understand their yearning to be acknowledged, but they have to accept the fact that they're not good and have a job to do. When Shi Hyun snapped that he couldn't tell the difference, I winced, "This isn't helping your case, Shi Hyun, not being able to differentiate between professionalism and mediocrity."

Above all, Chan Young was the rightest when he confronted the other Crude Play boys, and they couldn't even deny it. Their recklessness affects not only them, yet they were only concerned about their friend finding out over informing their own member. Chan Young could have lost his livelihood overnight and not even know what hit him. Poor Chan Young doesn't even have anyone to confide in. It's not like he can tell So Rim her favorite band doesn't play their own instruments. So Rim is so intuitive; she could tell right away that something was wrong when Chan Young came to her house. Shi Hyun desperately needs someone (read: Soo Yeon) to comfort him. Crude Play and Chan Young's situations mirror each other so much: Crude Play wants to play their own instruments, but their playing is not good enough, so Jin Hyuk replaces them with session musicians. Chan Young wants to produce, but his songs are not good enough, so Jin Hyuk replaces him with his prodigy producer K. Common denominator here: Jin Hyuk.

"She needs a song she can trample on." Damn, that was harsh. Thank goodness Chan Young wasn't in the room to overhear. But what do you expect from a man who only cares about business and making money? Using his artists as pawns and pitting his producers against one another. "I'll give you So Rim" like she's an object to be passed around. I am a horrible person, but I was glad Yoo Na lost her CF. She selfishly got Han...

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(cont.)

She selfishly got Han Gyul's song as a consolation prize, so I don't feel sorry for her one bit. What is this out-of-the-blue wedding, though? Jin Hyuk doesn't even look like he likes Yoo Na half the time.

Ugh at Chan Young and Han Gyul selfishly fighting over Mush & Co.'s debut song like children. "Don't sing his song. Sing mine." "You don't have to sing my song, but don't sing his." Mush & Co. has to debut with a song, you know! OMG at Han Gyul threatening So Rim "You either keep your promise to Chan Young or never see me again." Shut up, the both of you! It has come to the point where it's no longer about So Rim, and they are only trying to one-up each other. I had no clue there were three other producers in the running for Mush & Co. debut song, but I briefly wished neither Chan Young or Han Gyul's songs were chosen.

I want to punch Se Jung in the face, that user. I'm surprised Gyu Sun hadn't spilled Chan Young was Mush & Co.'s producer since he knows Chan Young is her bias and would want to impress her. How come there's been no talk of Mush & Co. getting session musician'ed like Crude Play? From what we're told, Jin Woo and Gyu Sun suck, too, as they were almost not signed if not for So Rim.

I love this show, but over half of the characters piss me off. Thanks a bunch for the recap, festerfaster!

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I don't think the wedding is for Yuna and Jin Hyuk. It is some other WHO celebrity.

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I agree that both Chan-young and Han-gyul have the right to be upset with Crude Play. If those videos had gotten out, both of them would be out of a career! I understand that the Crude Play guys do feel inferior to both CY and HG and I feel bad for their situation, but it was extremely selfish to put the band at risk because of their personal insecurities.

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Yes. Both Chan Young and Han Gyul are part of Crude Play too. They shouldn't have used their common name in that way. It was reckless. I understood the recklessness. After all, one tends to act recklessly when caged and frustrated. It still makes it irresponsible, of course.

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"When five different people all say the same thing, shouldn't you think that maybe you're the problem?"

The thing is, he might be the problem but it is not necessarily his problem. Of course it is in regards to his friendship with them but what I mean is that he might be the reason they all feel shitty but it's not his fault. Mhmm how to say it.... All of them are saying that he makes them feel inadequate. Well, they are. I think that's what it boils down to. Wether you are good at something or not....it's mostly determined by comparison. You might get only A's in High school and then come to college and fail spectacularly...would you put the blame of your mediocrity on the people around you that are better than you?
He is classified in this drama as a genius. (The movie as well, idk about the manga)
They all succeed on his coattails but they also expect him to praise them or accept their mediocre playing....when in truth - he could have gone with another band. With more talented artists to sing his songs.....they are not entitled to his songs you know...just because they are his friends, it doesn't necessarily give them the exclusive right to his talent.

You could say that they didn't want to succeed on unfair grounds that it makes them feel bad to be famous although they don't have the skill but they also didn't decline it either, they went alone with being "fake" because it meant fame and money.

I know I sounded very harsh on them right now and I see how people really empathize with them because HG is very harsh when he tells them the truth.

It's the truth though. They ARE not skilled enough. They ARE inadequate.
I hope they can become skilled enough in the future...that they will someday not be living as fakes but I don't think it's all on HG. He should be nicer in the way he says things but that's about it...I don't think he should just keep quiet and accommodate their insecurities.
Imagine these guys pitted against Mozart or something lol (i know - ridiculous but that's kind of the point) Someone that is commonly known as a *genius* - If I think of it like that....if I think of HG as an actual GENIUS....well - I don't think they should blame him for their failures. As harsh as that might sound....maybe they shouldn't have tried to swim in the big pond...

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I get that. It's on them. It's their inferiority complex that Han Gyul can't do anything about. Which is why I said it's not Han Gyul's fault because he can't not be a genius. It's like asking a genius to dumb things down just so the people around him can understand. So short of them not being friends with him, they will always feel inadequate.

It's also largely perception. Like So Rim doesn't feel inadequate around Han Gyul because she is a positive person. But the five of them are so jaded by the industry that they internalize their inadequacy and it breaks their spirit.

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I get upset at Chan Young a lot, but if he had just a bit more experience, I think he'd be much better at producing Mush & Co than Han Gyul. With HG's inability to see anything but music when that's involved, him and So Rim's relationship would most likely suffer a lot and she might end up stripped of any confidence due to how he might criticize her. But I wish the guys would stop pushing and pulling at her, music-wise, she's still just a girl and they're supposed to be the more mature ones here. I love that HG ran back for her at the end though, it really shows how he's softened and begun to see when he makes mistakes. He's one of the few inhabitants of dramaland who makes lots of mistakes, but always tries to correct them when he becomes aware. I wish him and CY could just be friends and lean on each other, instead of all that rivalry. Also... HG's dad is pretty horrible. He's been in town for that long and never contacted his son? Wow... HG switching from kid-who-missed-dad to teen-like-adult-who-hates-dad-for-not-caring once he heard how long it'd been, really broke my heart :(

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Like he said to his dad, the dad is a coward who keeps running away from his responsibilities and can't take a bad situation. He probably took time to contact his son because of how "afraid" he is of him and procrastinated it.

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Which is such an immature thing to do. It's no wonder Han Gyul isn't more mature at times lol, he's only had an infrequent and bad example to learn from...

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and not just his father. Jinhyuk isn't the greatest role model around.

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So true.

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I can't wait for the drama to delve more into the father-son relationship. We've only got glimpses of it so far. But I've got no doubt it'll get its own spotlight in the future. It's just like the conflict with Crude Play and Han-gyul. We've seen bits and pieces of it from Episode 1, building up to this episode. This drama does building up stories very thoughtfully.

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The writing for this show really surprised me with how good it is. I can't wait either, although I bet it's gonna involve lots of viewers' hearts breaking for poor Han Gyul :(

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I guess that makes Han Gyul and official heartbreaker ;)

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YES! Totally agree about the dad! I completely understand HG bitterness and hard shell now! Abandonment issues are a series thing! They make you want to get closer to the person who left just because you loved them once, and the feelings still echo - but when they just waltz around your life like they did nothing wrong is when you start to lose your frickin' sh!t!! So I am completely in AWE of how RAW Hangyul was portrayed because to me, it felt so incredibly realistic! I could relate to that and say; they did a really nice job!

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Lol. Omg. What has this show done to me? I was just going to check it out, but then I ended up marathoning all 8 episodes...just last night. I'm getting so into it, I don't even understand myself! I felt the show managed to get better this week, but also more frustrating. Which is such a weird feeling to have about a show, especially a light, fluffy one like this.

The characters are surprisingly well-drawn, with all these motivations and struggles within the industry that I find quite compelling. With all the depth their given, I end up getting bummed whenever the writers let Yoona or Chan-young be driven by their petty (romantic) jealousy. They are much more interesting characters when their individual growth is the focus. I adore the Crude Play boys, especially Shi-hyun with his sweet little loveline I see happening :)

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Being frustrating is actually this story's true charm ;)

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Agreed. This is a different kind of frustrating we're talking about. We're frustrated because we care about them and want them to be happy. Which like you said, is this drama's charm.

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Haha, it really is! I kind of love it.

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Marathoning 8 episodes in one go!!! Impressive... glad the bug caught you, the more the merrier!

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I see we reached "that" part of the show. Goodbye fluff, hello angst and misunderstandings that result in petty acts of jealousy!!! (Sigh)

I will say this for the show: at least the angst/jealousy is rooted in character flaws and/or unavoidable situations. Sometimes drama-angst is stupid and could be resolved if the characters just sat down and had a mature discussion, but here I can see that 1) some of these issues can't really be talked through, and 2) even if they could be, there are obvious and understandable reasons why the characters would struggle to have that conversation. CY and HG could probably talk their differences out, but because of the bitterness between them, that conversation will require a level of maturity a lot of people don't have. Personally, I hope CY and HG duke their problems out--a few punches to the face could do them both good.

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CY and HG could probably talk their differences out, but because of the bitterness between them, that conversation will require a level of maturity a lot of people don't have. Personally, I hope CY and HG duke their problems out--a few punches to the face could do them both good.

I vote for both these scenarios. Both the duking out part, and the mature talk part. After the punch, lying down next to each other and smiling into each other and I should stop before I write a fanfic.

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Write it! I would read a fanfic about Chanyoung and Hangyul. Maybe a bromance a la Sassy Go Go between Jisoo and Lee Won Geun?

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Contrary to the popular voice on HG being a jerk at that final park scene...I'd like to take it in a different way!
When HG bombarded SR with questions, he wasn't really manipulating her..he didn't say he Wasn't going to see her again if she chooses CY's song over his,for real! He said 'What if?' and for me..that 'what if' didn't sound like some douche-baggy-manipulative-scheme! It was more of HG's desperate call to her as if he wants to affirm his hold on her, not just music wise but also relationship wise! When HG said he wants to do everything, including music with SR..he definitely admitted his budding feelings for her and when SR showed her dissatisfaction in Yuna taking her song..he likely felt to throw in his confession(?)/question to know where her heart lies! Though he knows her rejection doesn't mean for Him exactly, he can't help but feel dejected because the way CY keeps rubbing him off on SR-related topics..it makes Me worked up too (when CY whispered to HG not to intervene with a smirk on his face..I'm sorry SR-CY shippers but I was ready to punch him)
Like he said, he's fine with CY's song being the debut piece..so when he asked her to just sing..Only just sing his song, he was simply laying his feelings for her and as we all know, HG talks In music and sadly it mostly comes out in a wrong way! Well..at least I understood it that way..and the way SR has been understanding his little white lies to mood swings..I hope she did too!

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Hmm... you've got a point. I admit, I was mad at him too. But seeing it your way makes it better. It's still not okay he made Sorim cry, but it does make him clumsy rather than detestable.

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Not to sound rude but Sorim cries at almost everything! Hee!
But we all know HG is going to make up to her..especially after he saw CY comforting her after He made her cry..*waiting for that moment*

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If it makes you feel better, she didn't want to cry either. lol. To be honest, my heart broke a bit when she tried not to cry in front of Chanyoung, and then sobbed that she didn't want to cry.

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In her defense, Sorim doesn't know how to put barriers on against people as someone said in one of the comments above. Because she opens herself up completely and embraces her feelings without the usual caution and defense more life-hardened people would have, because she deals with everything with 100% genuineness, it also makes her more vulnerable and open to get hurt just as much. Isn't that how people start to build defense? Getting hurt first, and learning a lesson on being cautious about people? He's her first love, which makes him into a position where he can hurt her even more than other people, hence the tears.

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Sometimes I feel the same way abt SR crying so much. Then I remind myself she is just a sweet, naive, high school girl thrown into the dog-eat-dog world of corporate Kpop... And then to have K, someone whose songwriting gifts you just really idolize and are in total awe over, write songs specifically for you and show more than just a business interest in you, that poor girl - I'd be one huge hormonal mess, too!

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He pretty much redeemed himself already, by running back to her. And I agree, even though I think it wasn't quite right what he did, I don't think he was trying to manipulate her in a concious way. Seems like he got jealous and insecure and was just trying to confirm (in a wrong way) that her heart lies with him. When he realized what he'd just done he immediately ran back for her. And that's more important imo. So Rim is also partly to blame for being a bit weird about the promise. To only listen to ONE guy for the first three years of your career seems like a pretty stupid idea lol. It was a pretty petty thing to make her promise.

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Yeah, it WAS naïve of her. But I think So-rim is viewing her new acquaintances in terms of friends and not business associates. And that's the vein in which Chan-young extracted her promise. I thought it was pretty conniving of him at that point, but didn't expect her to stick to it so earnestly.

My issues with Han-gyul asking So-rim to sing his song is different: What does her opinion matter? The song on her album will get selected by Sole, and she's under contract for the next three years. If they had played the story a little differently, So-rim could have been refusing Han-gyul cause she knew she was contract bound to only sing what Sole selected. So listening to his song would just make it more painful for her to reject it. And Han-gyul knows this. If he wants her to sing his song, he should focus more on getting his song chosen by the board, no? He knows how this works.

Anyway, that bit has left me a bit confused about HG's fixation to get her to agree. If it's only about wanting her to choose him/his song over CY, then I get that. But not the part where he's basically asking her for something she can't give. Regardless of her promise to CY.

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Oh ho. You make a good point. I didn't even think about the board.

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He probably assumes (and probably correctly) that the board would love to have her sing his song, even if he thinks they didn't want to choose it as a title song, since he's so succesful and already allowed pretty much full control over Crude Play's music. Jin Hyuk did keep pressuring him to produce Mush & Co, so it's not exactly a wrong thing to assume. And he asked her, because he's falling for her and cares about her opinion. It's not just about music to him, it's about his relationship with her as well. He most likely wouldn't want to force her to sing his song by going through the board instead of asking her first. Which also might have something to do with how he views music, as forcing her to sing his song would remove some of the musical magic that could otherwise arise. A non-title song also might not need to be approved by the board. If it's just a b-track, then it won't matter as much to them. Another thing is that she hasn't signed with Chan Young. That promise is only a verbal agreement. The contract would be with the agency, not CY and it would most likely be 7 years, not 3. If HG had asked her to sing it as a title-song when the board already said no, it'd be a different matter, but he did say that it didn't matter to him if it was as a title song or not.

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He redeemed himself in 'our eyes' when he ran back to her but not yet on Soorim's eyes. ?

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At that whisper moment I was so hoping that Han-gyul would punch him, or at least insult him back! And he says sly comments like that all the time, while Han-gyul has never said anything like that, which I think is why I never truly warmed up to Chan-young...

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My feels exactly!
Remember when he sarcastically offered HG a ride home after revealing his identity?! Whoa! My blood boiled!! Like Dude..really? And even then all HG asked was how Sorim was ♡melted♡
Also didn't quite understand or liked when Sorim tagged along with him!

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Your observation mirrors my own. He was a guy wanting to know that the girl he likes would still pick him.

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Am I the only one that found this episode the saddest on the drama yet? I know Sorim cried her heart out during episode 6 but this episode goes deeper than that. I love angst when done right and The Liar and His Lover, my friend, you did it right.

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No you're not. This episode was heart breaking all around. You can tell how much 5 years into this fake thing has broken every single one of them. From Hangyul who has to sacrifice every relationship as a producer, to Jinhyuk slowly losing on empathy to start his sublable, to the Crude Play members being sick of feeling like they're not enough, and Chanyoung to feeling lonely and unrecognized. And even Yoona and how desperate she is. Sorim getting in the mix just brought out to the light how broken all of them are. ANd yes, angst done right!

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Exactly everyone is just done. I also have to congratulate the writers for throwing out the bomb this early in the drama, it means every problem will be solved carefully and that will lead us to a happy ending for everyone, hopefully.

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I groaned at the using-up-all-the-truffle scene. It's almost becoming a trope that TV and movies just don't seem to grasp the basic understanding of truffles - they are fresh foodstuffs that do not keep! Would you keep fresh mushrooms in a covered glass jar??

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Out of interest... how are we supposed to keep truffles? I don't have the money for it, but I might win the lottery one day. XD

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I used to work in a gourmet deli that would sell black truffle when in season. When on display and packing for a customer, the truffles would be placed on a layer of uncooked rice, presumingly to absorb any moisture that would cause the truffle to rot prematurely. Fresh truffles should be used within a week, stretching to a maximum of 2 weeks, after which it becomes over-ripe and the flavour changes. Truffles are not as expensive as you might think - yes, the per unit price is very high, but each piece is incredibly light. If sliced thinly, a A$25 piece can generously garnish 8-12 eggs worth of scrambled eggs or a family-gathering portion of potato salad. It just seems outlandishly unaffordable because restaurants slap on an additional $10 for a measly slice of truffle.

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Thank you for detailed answer. Very interesting.

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I'm really on the fence about this show. I want to root for the TOP but it's really really for me. Han-Gyul is manipulative and petty even with those he cares about. So Rim is either naive or dumb and I can't figure out which. I'm a proud feminist but I believe in respect in relationships. That said, in what world is it okay to be meeting someone late at night who has expressed interest in you when you are in a relationship? I can't understand So Rim or why she's surprised when Han Gyul is confused by her actions. Is she suppose to be young, innocent or what? There's an addictive quality to this show that keeps me coming back. But, the characters are infuriating and it's makes the addictive storyline less appealing.

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My principle is if I hate the people in the drama, I'll just drop it. I'm not watching this drama and it feels great. I advise you to do the same. And I agree with you. So Rim is stupid.

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With all due respect, please stop bashing something you haven't watched. Thank you.

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Your comments are strange. If you are not watching this drama, how can you judge it? I am watching it because I am a fan of the manga, it had a huge crack factor for me, to the point were I am sad when the story differs too much from the original. I had no idea who Joy is before watching this show. I am not at all interested in kpop. Riko (Sorim) is one of the greatest female manga characters for me and I read a huge amount of manga when I was younger. She is very lovable and very complex at the same time. She is innocent, pure, loyal, outgoing, cheerful and dismissed as naive and simple-minded at the beginning by the people who know her superficially, only for them to be surprised when seeing the flashes of hidden depth, maturity and insight that she displays, especially when it concerns her beloved Aki (Han-gyul). Joy is doing a great job playing her. I have trouble seeing Lee hyun woo as Aki, but Joy as Riko is spot on. And for what you wrote about choosing a more experienced and beautiful actress instead of an idol, in this case I think choosing someone from the music industry is justified, as this is a musical drama and someone who can't sing playing Sorim (a singer with an enchanting voice) would have been weird to say the least. Also in the manga, Rico is cute, but not beautiful, the stunning beauty being Mari (Yoona), and this is an extra reason for Rico's insecurity, as she cannot help but compare herself with Aki's former lover. From what I've seen in kdramas, the idols' acting ability differs, some are very good at acting - Jung eun ji, and some not really - Suzy, L (but even they can be ok for some roles - Suzy in Dream High and L in SUFBB). I don't know how Joy would be in other roles, but I like her very much in TLAHL.

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Right? Right? Joy is quite spot on as Riko. Though her hair is not so mush-like and she sometimes act way too meek. I am the fans of the manga too. The dark, mess up, and frustrating way the story unfold and the characters react keep engaging for me. That's why I am surprise that this version turn out to be bright, fluff, cheesy, and cute, which I surprisingly love all the same. But now that we are in the angst teritory, I guess the strongest appeal of the story is finally there...

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I love LOVE love Riko and Aki! I was hesitant to like this kdrama version because I was so moved with Riko n Aki's chemistry. But with an open mind and after a few episodes I got to appreciate this version. It has its own charm.

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I wish I wouldn't have to compare. But I can't help but keep comparing. :( This kind of confusion happened because they change the context of every decision the character made from the original version of the story. They still sticking every events to the root. But they basically change the context of important event. Why mush act the way she is. Why she is making that decision. Is she meek or is she strong-willed? It shouldn't be contradicting if the context stay unchanged. A lot of changed is actually refreshing, but in return we have to face this kind of confusion. It's like watching Scarlet Heart that reenact every scene of the previous version but put the wrong context. Though TLAHL is still doing pretty much good job with this version.

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Completely with you. I'm only watching this for Crude Play and how they'll handle the reveal of their big secret. I skip the rest, but do catch bits and pieces when I pause the fast forward button.

And what I see infuriates me. They're manipulating So Rim, and in turn, she's manipulating them without even knowing it. I particularly dislike this type of character.

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That said, in what world is it okay to be meeting someone late at night who has expressed interest in you when you are in a relationship?

Since you asked. =) The one crossing the 'line' here is Chan-young. He's the one constantly approaching So-rim to spend time with her. So-rim has yet to ever seek CY out. For SR, professional distance, etc. is a completely new thing. She's a high schooler. Her 'oppa' from the band she loves is producing her album. He's behaving like a fond elder brother to her and that's what she's responding to. He hasn't really shown any romantic interest in her yet. Aside from capturing her hands and asking her to shake hands with him (he's really into making promises, no?), he hasn't once shown INTEREST the way SR -- someone who has little experience in relationships -- would understand. To be honest, even I don't think he's shown any interest yet. He probably will, soon. But not yet. He's just bizarrely possessive about her, but that stems mostly from jealousy of HY, protectiveness of his own career path, and an admiration for SR's voice. So, to repeat: SR isn't the one trying to spend time with CY. Pretty sure her disappointed face when he was the one to call instead of HG showed that clearly.

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I very much like how you worded everything. Chanyoung acts like and older brother/oppa/sunbae to her, and she's responding to that. There has been nothing romantic between them yet.

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I imagine she'll be pretty surprised and embarrassed if CY were to come on to her. Even without HG in the picture, she doesn't see CY as a potential bf. He's too elevated in his idolness. Larger than life, a legend...you know, beyond her touch. So it's not even something that would trouble her mind. Whereas, she met HG as just a guy who composes. By the time his id was revealed he was humanized, and SR was already in like. =)

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According to the manga Riko (Sorim) was a huge fan of Crude Play since their debut. However among them all she liked Aki (HG) the best, for his songs, even though she had no idea how he looked like. Aki was her idol, the larger than life legend. Whatever awe she would have felt at meeting CY, it was nothing compared to potentially meeting Aki. I believe if she would have met them all as members of Crude Play she would still have still fallen for Aki, celebrity or not.

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Man, I’m so done with Chan-young throwing his pity party in his shiny, red Corvette.

I get where Chan-young is coming from with his inferiority complex, but at the same time he kind of just ruminates in his misery and doesn’t seem to take any steps to change that situation. When his Crude Play band mates were discovered for practicing their music, I totally get that they should have told them, but to completely blame them in that situation just makes himself more of an outsider. As someone that hates being seen as a stand-in, I find it super hypocritical of him to not sympathize with his band members who are angry at the same issue! They are tired of just being marketable objects that don’t even get to make music!

If you want to escape your complex, write better songs! go find people to produce! Stop trampling over Han-Gyeol to get what you want. Stop thinking Han-Gyeol’s talent is stopping you from succeeding. It’s petty and unprofessional. You don’t ~deserve~ anything in life, life isn’t fair. Be like Crude Play, and try to do something about the situation.

Am I being too harsh? I think this characteristic of placing blame on other people is one of my pet peeves…

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Agree with you about CY completely. He could have said no to debuting as Crude Play's bassist but he didn't. That was his choice. (Maybe with a bit of manipulation from Jin Hyuk but still). The fact that he isn't a "genius" songwriter also isn't anyone else's fault but his own! He could have reacted so differently to the whole incident of So Rim telling him she rejected HG's song. He could have been happy and proud at her support instead of gloaty and smug to HG and threatening to take So Rim away from HG. Look dude- if your song can't compare to someone else's when played against one another, it's not the fault of the other person for writing a better song! I also honestly do not think he is thinking about Mush and Co's best interests at all, just how he can use them to prove his own self worth. Because he doesn't even believe in himself (thanks to Jin Hyuk's slimy manipulation), he will have trouble thinking of others before himself.

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Will everyone please stop telling Han Kyeol his music will only hurt people? ?
It makes me want to cuddle him and tell him it will be all ok. That, or shove him into a room with So rim until she gets him to smile again. ?

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If Han Kyeol hurts people with his music, I think he gets even more hurt in return.

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Yes! What is so wrong about him being a genius songwriter? That's his career. Granted he needs to acquire people skills but that's the trajectory of his and So Rim's story isn't it? The fact that she affects him and is slowly changing his perspective and outlook on his music. But every time there is a shift in HG, CY happens along and goads and taunts him.

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There is nothing wrong to be a genius writer, but it can be frustrating for others when you get to do everything (musically), and they get to do nothing.

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I'm pretty sure HG will leave the door ajar again ?

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I feel like this show is a series of games played by President Yoo, Mr Choi, HG and CY, and they're just weaving a maze around in their game and letting Sorim maneuver her way through it. I almost feel bad for Sorim who's just completely not in the know. Even HG - threatening her with never meeting her again unless she sings his song and then regretting it all of 10 minutes later? Though I must say that she cries at least once in every episode, which is really giving me Go Ara in Hwarang vibes. Please stop with the crying for once!

I find it kind of difficult to root for CY. He tears into HG for not caring about SR, for messing with her feelings - but he's clearly guilty of that as well. When he made the 3-year promise with her, when he revealed that HG was K, when he kept telling her he wouldn't let her down; they were mostly ploys to further his own agenda of leaving Crude Play and branching out on his own, even if he does care about her. As for Mr Choi... I don't know. While I can understand his motivations (business, profits), I completely hate how HG and Crude Play are just pawns on his chessboard.

Regarding Crude Play: I think part of HG knows that the only way he can make his music known is through commercialization/business, but he doesn't want to admit it (like what his father said). That's the reason why he got so worked up whenever they mentioned playing or their own/when he found out about the video scandal. And while I sympathize with Crude Play and all their bottled feelings over the years, I feel that their fights with HG might be too harsh. They were and are still friends, but they should realize that their dream to become "top stars" wouldn't come without some sort of sacrifice.

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I agree with almost everything you said. Just about the crying bit, I feel like So Rim wouldn't be So Rim without getting hurt like that. Think of it this way. Children find it harder to control or hide their emotions in response to something. Over time, as you grow up, you learn to hide them from others, modulate them, and bottle them up. It's part of her "innocent" character and what makes her different from other characters. It's why everyone one is drawn to her, because she isn't tainted yet, and uncomplicated, unlike their world.

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That is true! I might have been too harsh with my comment on the crying, but I think it's because of my general preference for spunkier female leads. (Also because, sigh, Hwarang). I guess what makes Sorim different is that she wears her heart on her sleeve and that makes her a refreshing change from the usual "adult" behaviour to hide!

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I've been noticing you're quite open to an opposite opinion or changing your mind in the comments. Just a random observation, don't mind me. I'm not stalking you, just somehow noticed it. ;D

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Oh my, haha! I shall take that as a compliment, thank you? ;) I love discussing about dramas in general and listening to new opinions because I tend to feel quite strongly about my own opinions! It's interesting to learn about how different people think from me. I try my best to be open but I think I tend to be a little forceful regarding my opinions sometimes, haha!

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Everything in this episode just created layers of misunderstanding which can be resolved if they all are honest to each other. This is kdrama after all so it may take a couple of episodes to fix.

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but but... what I like about this show, is that all characters end up expressing their frustrations to each other. The only misunderstanding that is not cleared yet, is the one at the end of the episode, where Han-gyul omitted to say that he didn't give "Waiting for you" to Yoona, and actually had written another song specifically for Yoona. Since it's the end of the episode, I can't blame it for not clearing it up yet. Besides that, all the boys have been telling each other what they don't like about each other or the situation, and Sorim is of course, the most honest one. Jinwoo and Sooyeon are not upfront about their respective crushes, but I don't blame them. And Sejung is a snake.

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It might be a minority opinion, but I really liked this episode despite it being less "cheery." Though that scene where they almost kissed and he was stunned speechless by how pretty she is was very cute.

I like the each episode, the world created within the drama becomes richer, even if it's in conflict, and the characters become richer characters too. They keep adding complexity and layers to the characters. I like this a lot more than drama for the sake of drama. This is like, well thought-out and planned drama, rooted on characterization. I wonder if it's because it's based on a manga, so the substance comes from there but not the drama itself? Hmmm. I still want to give some credit to the drama, because I've seen adaptations that were quite empty.

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It is indeed because the characters in the original manga are very complex and layered. Almost every character in the manga has a backstory and there are some chapters that show the point of view of some particular character and thus you can understand his/her motivation and what makes them behave like this. The chain of events in the manga is also more connected and logical. The drama changed or omitted a lot of things and so some aspects are unclear to the viewer. A user asked why Yoona feels presure in her career because of her age when she is the same age as Crude Play's members - she is not, they are 24-25, she is 3 years older than Aki (HG), so 28 (though CP are also not about worries about their own future). Some said about Han gyul being not as talented in playing the bass as CY. That is not exatly true. It is a question of practice. Shinya (CY) started playing the bass in primary school, and was trained by professionals, Aki (HG)'s father in the manga is not a musician, is poor, has a wife and kids to feed, and could not buy a guitar for Aki, even knowing how much the latter dreamed of it, till Aki was in middle school. Aki became a bassist by chance, because his father could not distinguish the bass guitar from the other guitars and just told the seller "give me the best one you've got". He probably learned to play it by himself. Though his playing was not as professional as Shiniya's, Shiniya still liked to listen to Aki's bass, so I think Aki definitely has talent for it, just not enough practice due to his childhood's circumstances.

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I didn't read the manga but I watched the movie (many many times) and your inputs made me understand their story even more. Thank you!

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Yeah. They changed a lot of context in the story. It is refreshing and fun. But at the same time it makes the character's logic and decision to be confusing. Because basically it is not how it happened.

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Correction: "about"= "without" I wanted to say the CP members are also not without worries about their own future

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I am laughing again remembering that guitar incident. Oh boy... ?

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My favorite show airing right now! Commenting to express some love for this show!

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I wish Crude Play were a real band. I'd stan them so hard.

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See comment # 3 and stan them anyway. :D

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I'm really glad that the Crude Play boys got outted in this episode because I think it's about time Jin-Hyuk take a good look at his whole "Mozart or nothing" approach to talent management. I find him to be pretty inflexible in the way he deals with his artists and basically only gives them one chance to prove their worth before putting them into one box and never letting them out again. From a business standpoint, I understand that neatly organising your employees into pre-arranged categories makes thing simple for you. From an artistic standpoint, well, it's a terrible way to do business. You tell Chan-Young he can produce a new band but you don't like THE FIRST SONG he composes so you automatically passes the hand on to a veteran composer. That's stupid. And short-sighted. And will ultimately make your artists miserable, which means the quality of their work will diminish, which means you will loose money. Give them a chance to grow before you dismiss them and you might find out your company will become a much better place.

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In Mr Choi's defense though, he's under a lot of pressure from President Yoo as well. He's responsible for SOLE music, and that means he has to work to feed all the employees who are under him, and that includes Crude Play and all other artistes. The thing is, what Crude Play did was just wholly irresponsible because it could have cost them their careers, which means that all the staff that worked hard for them would be left with nothing as well. While I'm glad they got outed (though I don't think it will actually make Mr Choi think about his strategy, he seems too far mired into the whole "profit" strategy), I actually think that it's a good thing they realized how irresponsible their actions were, especially toward the staff who had worked hard to put them where they were. Also, I wonder if he had only allowed CY to produce the new band because he had known that HG would fight to produce them once he realized it was SR. He clearly doesn't think much of CY's songs, and especially from a business POV - letting a newbie produce a new band might not be the best way for that band to debut.

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I agree that Jin Hyuk has a tendency to be short-sighted. I still like him though. Because he does have moments where his points are more valid, or at least, make sense, business wise. I don't like that he sacrifices relationships at the cost of business, but I can't hate him.

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While I enjoy the cavity inducing scenes of the drama, I'm just a sucker for angst specially when done right. This episode just filled my angst-starved heart. *noms all the misery and sadness all over this ep*

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Haha! I'm the same. Mmmmmm. Delicious. I needed this.

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Please don't call yourself an RV fan, or anyone's fan for that matter. I'm not sure any fandom would want you in it.

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I'm all for our OTP but man Chan Young's face when So Rim started crying at the ending scene just tore my heart! I can't help but like him too. Sigh!

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One of the things I really love about Liar and His Lover is how well fleshed out the surrounding cast is: everybody has more than one side to them. In-Woo might be a wandering musician, but he's also a father trying to reconnect with his son. Yoo-Na isn't just a second lead, she's also her own person hoping for her own future--even President Yoo has depth, and pretty obviously cares for In-woo. So I have a wishlist for this drama: 1) Give me more of Shi-Hyun and Soo-Yeon. I want to know how they know each other--did it start in the company, or was it earlier in school somehow? 2) bring grandma back! I want to see more of her and So-Rim, but I also think she’s the key to figuring out what happened to So-Rim’s parents (if we’re going to go there again at all). Either that or she and Han-Kyeol will end up having a good chat. 3)publicize K’s identity. I think a major key to leveling out the relationships here is for Han-Kyeol to face the crowds again--he’s missing a major part of musicality and showmanship by hiding his face, and I don’t even know if that was by his own choice. 4) Please don't let Yoo-Na fall into classic second lead territory. I hope a part of her interest in So-Rim is purely curiosity, because I would be genuinely curious about this "wonder girl" too, even if I was jealous of her. 5) I know we're entering angst territory. More than anything, I hope this show stays true to itself and moves through it quickly. ^^ I want my kiss! And knowing how quick Han-Kyeol is to recognize his mistakes, I think we're in good hands.

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I agree with 1, 4 and 5! haha. But I like that HG isn't famous even though he is in the industry because it gives So Rim so much more freedom to date him like a more normal person. Sadly I'm a bit worried about prolonged angst for the coming week but fingers crossed we will get lots of character development and growth with it. I hope HG doesn't go all noble idiot on us that's all.

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I wonder what kind of noble idiocy you have in mind? If anyone would be a noble idiot, wouldn't it be more like So-rim? She's the type the sacrifice herself for others, not Han-gyul or anyone else in this drama for that matter.

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I was thinking he may foolishly believe what CY is saying that he will end up hurting So Rim and therefore "sacrifice" his feelings for her. For So rim's "own good". I call that being a noble idiot ?

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Oh boy.. why didn't I think of that scenario. Now, I have to cross my fingers hoping for the best.

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Well because Aki is not the noble idiot type of person, maybe we can hope?

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cozybooks! we got down voted! and i don't even know why! o_O
I think my world is going to end....
*kidding. well. maybe not really*
Do noble idiots have a union, and did we offend them?
I feel maligned. :'(

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No reason. Someone is on a downvote spree, because I'm seeing a series of comments being downvoted.

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Look to the comments below you, all of them have downvotes.

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Even my short insignificant comment is getting a downvote too michy.. I guess now that the downvote usage was finally initiated, it is easier to click the button.

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Is it me, or I'm getting constant messages of "Time-out" whenever I try to access this page? I got into here by chance, let's hope this work.

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Anyone else having trouble accessing and/or commenting on this page? *crossing my fingers this comment works*

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HAHA... thank you so muuch festerfaster ! finally i can understand this episode completely! good analyzing !

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I feel like he can both need to prove himself and care for Sorim. One does not exclude the other. He's certain HG is bad for SR because so far, HG has been good for no one. There's not a single healthy relationship in HG's life. As for CY, it's different. SR doesn't like CY romantically the way she does with HG. He knows it, and at this point, he doesn't see her romantically either. It's just a friendly relationship. CY isn't painting himself as a knight in shiny armor, he's someone concerned about SR, an oppa if you will, who confronts HG the way JW and GS confronted HG. HG's motives have been questionable too. Even though he showed concern for SR (as did CY), he also showed moments where he was inconsiderate of her feelings, as well as moments where the fact that he needs her voice for is song is his top priority. So I don't see why CY motives are that questionable. They're straightforward two me. First, he wants to have a career out of Crude Play. Two, he needs SR to do it because of her talent, and trust SR because he likes her (as a person as of now, as a girl perhaps later on). His actions so far have been done so both of these things can happen. He can protect SR from the influence of HG (who so far, has abused of her feelings for him, even if done so unintentionally), and at the same time, work together with her. I don't think it's a problem to have multiple reasons to like and want to help someone.

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I tried to access this page every 10 minutes in the span of 3 hours...

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Isn't it funny? When a drama has a bad case of Second Lead Syndrome, then everyone is in uproar, and also, when a drama has no SLS, everyone is also in uproar for different reasons. Just pointing out something interesting I just thought of. ;)

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Chan-young might be no rival of Han-gyul for So-rim, but I like how complex he is written that people can either sympathize with him or hate him both.

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I love this drama so much even though it's slightly cheesy. All the characters are compelling and complex. Plus, Joy gets to sing and be cute on all the time. No wonder they had to pick an idol singer, no matter what people say. I also like the CP and hope they find their way. HG is being an ass rite now, but is still my favorite.

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I wonder how they are going to do the love line between Sorim and Hangyul. They keep talking about the difference between their ages.

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The age difference issue is kinda of weak and watered down here as compared to the manga, I feel. In the manga, he was 26 and she was 16, but here at most they're only 5 years apart! I've try doing the math again and again but given how Crude Play were still in high school when they debuted, and how it's been 5 years since then, and Sorim is in her last year of high school, there is no logical way for there to be an age gap greater than 5 years! I think the issue here is more of the "she's still a high schooler" thing. Though if the Goblin, who's at least a 1000 x HanGyeol's age, could get with a high schooler, I don't see how that's not possible here lol...

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The drama did lower the age gap to 5 years. Han Gyul is 24 instead of 25, and So Rim is 19 instead of 16.
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/static/images/c/cc/Liarlovercast.jpg

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Looks like your link is showing up now :)

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Thanks for your help, @mary! ?

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Did anyone notice that Jin-woo was wearing one of So-rim's photoshoot top when they tried on clothes? LOL.

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I did. It was the red one wasn't it?

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It does fly, doesn't it? It barely feels as if we're halfway.

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In my opinion, Han-gyul and Chan-young are two sides of the same coin. Han-gyul deals with his inferiority complex about being bassist by quitting it completely, while Chan-young deals with his inferiority complex about owning his music by pushing for it even more. They both have inferiority complexes, but deal with it in an completely opposite way.

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Hallelujah I'm finally in! I've been trying over the past day since I saw the recap out to enter the page but the network keeps timing out on me T^T Late on the party but can I just say how much I look forward to reading and replying the comments in dramabeans on this drama! Whenever I finish an ep I'm always dyingggg to find people to squeal or to dissect some of the juicier/deeper moments with me, but all of the other forums I have found so far seem to really toxic ): People are more concerned with bashing the acting or bad script writing and they do it in less than savoury manners. That's why I always look forward to these recaps, though the wait seems forever sometimes. At least here we can agree to disagree much more civilly.

Also, I really don't know if it's just me but I'm really confused by CY's character at times. Sometimes, like in the band room, he seems so sincere and moved by Sorim's trust in him. Other times, like when he walked in on HanGyeol and Sorim's moment here, he seems to be treating Sorim as a way to niggle at HG. I honestly could not see any sincerity in his praise to Sorim during that scene. At this point in time, it just seems to me that CY just compulsively acts out in his bid to one up HG whenever HG is involved, even if its at the expense of Sorim. And times when he's overly smile-ly towards HG, it just seems more awkward than biting to me. It is true that CY is a deeply complicated and nuanced character that while I may not always enjoy, I still do appreciate and understand, but I wonder if it might because Seo Won is so young and has yet to accumulate as much experience that I am still not able to fully appreciate this character.

And I can't help comparing him to Hyun Woo's portrayal of HG, who is also deeply flawed and deeply complex a character. I really really really loved his scene on the phone with Jinhyuk in this ep, because you could really see how much that comment hurts but yet he can't say anything about it because he knows that is true to a great extent. It's moments like this that you can see that all the hurt he has been compulsively inflicting on everyone around him because of his pursuit of perfection in music has not left him unscathed. He knows all the crap that he is doing but, like someone watching a train wreck, he still can't stop himself and it has been slowly killing him on the inside. But like every other male lead in kdramaland, the stubborn boy isn't one to show these feelings. I think that is why, despite his initial resistance, he can't help falling for Sorim, because despite everything he's done, her feelings for him are unwavering. That soft, almost pained, smile he has when he speaks to her on the phone after that meltdown really does to speak volumes about his feelings towards Sorim.

And about the last scene with Sorim, I think he was also really affected by what Jinhyuk said to him. It's kinda like a self-fulfilling prophecy, though I am not saying he...

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I like that now that you managed to get in here, you're taking advantage of it, and everything you want. ;) I had the same problem too. But forgot most of what i wanted to say by the time I got in here.
I also agree, besides from Dramabeans, most other places have really toxic comments, especially since an idol rookie is involved in the drama.

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Yes it's true! People just love bashing on idol rookies, but really I think they can end up doing pretty okay if they're cast for the right character and have the fortune of working with a good director.

But more than that they just all seem to love bashing the script writer too which is really sad for me. Yes, the writing may be flawed at times, but as far as I know the writer is pretty new, and I have really enjoyed most of the care that has been taken with almost every single character, even the small ones. No one is perfect from the start, in fact no one will ever be perfect, and that's how you hone your craft. Give the writer a chance man!

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Hmm? The writing is bad? Really? Why didn't I realized it? or any of us? I actually quite picky with writing. But I feel the writing of this show so far is good. There are dept in every characters. They are not one dimensional character who is there to only sing and try to be cute.

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I agree with you both. You can tell how much care was put into constructing the script and character. That level of depth and dimension is something I would hope people could appreciate past their prejudice.

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