Rebel: Thief Who Stole the People: Episode 24

168 April 21, 2017April 25, 2017

by tineybeanie

It feels like we’ve just been preparing for the past twenty episodes, and finally, we’re starting to make some headway. Key decisions are being made and events are propelling us toward the final confrontation we’ve been waiting for. But for some reason, I’m not feeling as much excitement as I was last week. Perhaps it’s the lack of blood, guts, and fighting, which I must admit are my favorite parts of the show at this point. You can’t help what you love.

EPISODE 24 RECAP

Both Yeonsangun and Gil-dong are plagued with nightmares, but the causes behind their respective restless nights are vastly different. The king fears Gil-dong’s return and replays Gil-dong’s last words to him over in his dreams. He wakes up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, and Eunuch Kim rushes over to him with a worried expression.

Yeonsangun tells him his theory that Gil-dong must be an illegitimate nobleman’s child or a long-lost royal cousin, because there’s no way a plebeian could have that much confidence facing a divine being such as himself. When Eunuch Kim protests, saying that Gil-dong even professed that he was a commoner with no special bloodlines or family ties to speak of, Yeonsangun is convinced that since Gil-dong is a thief, he’s a liar as well, and he must have deceived everyone about his ancestry.

Whereas, in Gil-dong’s nightmares, he is haunted by the suffering of the people that are rotting away in Yeonsangun’s packed cells—bloodied, bruised, and without hope. So he resolves to save them, and the following day, he gathers up all of the people in the cave hideout to recruit volunteers.

Gil-dong announces that while they have no power over the weather or mother nature, they do have the power to bring down the king. Then, he brings up his plan to steal the citizens in prison from Yeonsangun’s cells. He asks for recruits because he needs all the help he can get to rescue so many people.

However, the people can’t follow his mindset—they say that they only followed Hong Hero because they needed the food and shelter in order to survive. They didn’t come there necessarily because they wanted to defend justice and go against the king. But a courageous woman stands apart from the crowd and says that although she doesn’t know how to fight, she’ll help Gil-dong in any way she can, and some other brave souls follow her example.

But it seems like most able-bodied men don’t agree with Gil-dong’s plans—they followed him because they wanted to live, not because they wanted to die. So, in huddled corners, they think about betraying Gil-dong to the king because that would ensure their survival. Yonggae overhears their conversations and reports back to Gil-dong about the fear that these people have. Gil-dong looks troubled after hearing this news, but then the shamaness appears at the Hong brothers’ strategic planning table.

She gives them a new insight into the state of the people’s mindset: They’ve lived oppressed all their lives and don’t know the taste of freedom and success. So, she suggests that each of the Hong brothers tell their individual stories of outwitting the corrupt system, fighting for justice, and of how following Gil-dong has been liberating for them.

After being told these stories, the people who were initially so against Gil-dong’s people-napping plan earlier come back to him to ask whether he really has confidence in his success. His face breaks out into a grin, and he says yes. And so, they also say that they want to join the effort.

But instead of telling them to be a part of the actual operational force to infiltrate the palace, he asks them to stay in the hideout to protect the people, and the men seem immensely pleased. It’s not as high-risk as being captured at the palace, and it still gives them a sense of purpose as part of the overall effort. Then Eop-san and Keutsae enter with a whole cadre of old Hong family brothers from Ikhwari, who are here to help with Operation: Steal the People. They all reunite in happiness.

Back at the palace, the officials talk amongst themselves, fearing the king’s retribution. They try to think of ways to avoid his wrath because it seems that people’s necks have been severed just based on the whims of the king. Having heard from others that Scholar Song has the king’s ear, the highest officials in the land ask Gil-hyun to introduce them to him so that they may grovel for his goodwill, and by extension worm their way into the king’s good graces.

As per their request, Gil-hyun leads them to a meeting with Scholar Song. Gil-hyun’s mentor half-gloats at how the tables have turned. He refers to his former fall from glory and continues by saying that he thought that all the court officials hated him. But at the end of his speech, he adds that perhaps the men gathered here don’t hate him, because everyone who openly showed dislike of him died under the king’s orders. The scholars nod eagerly at Scholar Song’s words and try to please him the best they can.

Gil-hyun reflects in his secret correspondence to Gil-dong that he’s disappointed in the self-serving attitude of the court officials, who are supposed to be the moral pillars of Joseon. He thinks that they may not be able to consider the Joseon people because these officials have spent their entire lives secluded from the realities of life, first because they needed to study for the civil servant exams, and afterward because they’ve lived lives of privilege near the palace. So they only know the selfish desire to preserve their own skins, he claims.

He says that now, no official goes against the king’s will to offer their own opinions. Seeing this happen, he realized that Yeonsangun wasn’t acting in an impulsive manner when he started his reign of violence. Instead, he’s deduced that this is a cold calculative move by the king to consolidate his own power. His purpose was to shift the balance of power so that it would be heavily skewed toward the reigning monarch.

Later, Gil-hyun and Scholar Song sit together, and Scholar Song says that their relationship is analogous to his and the king: without any secrets. But of course, Gil-hyun thinks otherwise, especially since he knows that Yeonsangun is keeping Gil-dong’s escape a secret from Scholar Song.

Meanwhile in the palace, the king is in a good mood and declares that he wants to host a banquet of renewed peace. Breathing a sigh of relief after all the bloodshed, the scholars finally feel somewhat reassured, and they feel that going to Scholar Song was what made the difference.

Incognito, Gil-hyun meets with Gil-dong and tells him that this banquet is the opportunity that he was waiting for, since it’s the perfect chance to infiltrate the palace. Gil-hyun hands over a blueprint of the palatial grounds, saying that while he can let Gil-dong and the others in, they’ll have to figure out their own way from there on.

Starting on phase one of their plan, Gil-dong and his crew of experienced thieves begin raiding armories for weapons and teaching the people in the caves the proper maneuvers in combat skills, each according to his specialty. Although the people have never used these weapons before because they’ve never had to, it’s clear that they begin to feel empowered as they learn how.

In Ga-ryung’s voiceover, she says: “In prison, people who were torn apart from their children and their homes languished, thinking they were going to die, not knowing that far away, Gil-dong and his seven merry men were preparing to rescue them. But even as he was readying his forces, Gil-dong would lose sleep every night, worrying that more people would die before he could get to them. Whenever he had time, he’d pray in his heart that they would stay alive until he could rescue them.”

In the palace and unbeknownst to her, Gil-hyun sees Eorini from afar with tears in his eyes. He vows that they’ll be there soon as he silently pleads to her to wait until they can come for her.

Jeong-hak, who suspects Gil-hyun, visits Park Ha-sung’s family home. He sees an empty house with three graves in the yard, but one has an unknown name. He reports back to Scholar Song what he found and claims that it’s highly suspicious.

Scholar Song thinks Jeong-hak is just being petty and jealous about Park Ha-sung and the king’s close relationship. But when Park Ha-sung brings up Gil-hyun’s strange desire to save Gil-dong and the fact that despite the criminal’s death, the king hasn’t paraded his decapitated head around like the heads of all the other traitors to the nation, Scholar Song’s mind begins to change.

During his audience with the king, Scholar Song sneaks in a question about why Yeonsangun didn’t publicly display Gil-dong’s death, and Yeonsangun gives a noncommittal reply about how he didn’t feel like it. That’s when Scholar Song realizes that the king has been keeping secrets from him.

Meanwhile, Choongwongoon is still bitter that Scholar Song is taking all the credit for their coordinated efforts to bring down Gil-dong. He tries to tempt Mistress Jo with ideas of Jeong-hak’s potential rise to the highest levels of government if Scholar Song was out of the picture, and successfully plants a seed of rebellion against the old mentor in her.

Afterward, Choongwongoon talks with Mori to reinforce that he must do everything the king says. Mori tries to bring up the fact that he’s seen Gil-dong since his purported death, but he ends up remaining silent about the matter.

In the palace, the apprentice musician girls practice under Wolhamae’s careful watch for the king’s upcoming banquet performance. She emphasizes that they must never cry or appear dirty in front of the king.

Behind her, Nok-soo tells Ga-ryung that she should heed Wolhamae’s words as well, because the palace is not like the gibang they were in together before. When they sit down to have tea together, Nok-soo remarks that Ga-ryung has changed, and for the first time, she brings up the topic of Gil-dong.

Carefully, Ga-ryung asks if Nok-soo regrets leaving Gil-dong for the palace, but she replies that she thinks it’s the best thing she’s ever done. She chose the man who could give her the most security, but sometimes she does still wonder what a life would be with a man who truly cared for her. When Ga-ryung says that she has the king for that, Nok-soo states sadly but matter-of-factly that the king doesn’t understand what it is to love.

Later on, Yeonsangun and Nok-soo sit on a dais while Wolhamae parades a talent show of the apprentice girls in front of him to receive his judgement on their skills. Sang-hwa, with her quick energetic movements, is given a positive review, as is Ok-ran for the clear fluid lines in her dancing. Yeonsangun smiles in approval and shows that he is pleased with them both.

Then he singles out Ga-ryung to also perform, but when she comes in front of him, she truthfully tells him that she knows no other song than the one she sang in the forest during their first meeting. However, she tells him, she has one ability: to tell stories. He’s amused and says that he’ll call for her the next time he’s having trouble falling asleep.

Following that occurrence, Sang-hwa confronts Ga-ryung because she thinks that Ga-ryung is being manipulative by telling the king that she can tell stories. She thinks it’s a calculated attempt by Ga-ryung to get into the king’s bed, and she resents that Ga-ryung has it so easy while she had to labor for hours under Nok-soo to even rise to the king’s attention. Ga-ryung grabs her wrist and warns Sang-hwa not to bother her efforts to get close to the king, and the animosity between them is palpable.

At his house, Scholar Song receives information from his spy that Nok-soo had a pointed interest in Gil-dong when he was in the palace cells, and it puts him in a contemplative mood. He wonders what the gisaeng-concubine might have had to do with the People’s Thief.

At night, Yeonsangun still experiences nightmares, but instead of having Nok-soo come to him, he asks for Ga-ryung. In their dorms, the apprentice girls are gossiping about their day. Ga-ryung admits that she did have a little tiff with Sang-hwa, and she looks a bit sad that the girl doesn’t seem to like her.

However, she learns from Ok-ran that Sang-hwa isn’t a bad person, she’s just very loyal to her adoptive mother and wants to rise quickly in the ranks in order to make their family’s station in life better. Ok-ran, similarly, is also an orphan, having been separated from her brothers a long time ago. Before she can inquire further, Ga-ryung is whisked away by Eunuch Kim.

Eunuch Kim takes her aside and asks Ga-ryung to tell Yeonsangun a heartwarming story that will melt the king’s inner anger away. Although she is in the palace for her personal revenge, Ga-ryung looks touched as she sees the genuine care that Eunuch Kim has for the king.

In the royal bedchambers, she begins her storytelling with animated motions and expressions, and the king listens intently in return. The next morning, Yeonsangun awakes with a sense of wonder that he was able to sleep through the night. He smiles to himself as he remarks to Eunuch Kim that he can’t believe Ga-ryung’s story was so boring that he was able to sleep the entire night.

Sang-hwa reports to Nok-soo that Ga-ryung was by the king’s side the entire night, and Sang-hwa shows her displeasure because she thinks it should have been Nok-soo by Yeonsangun’s side. Nok-soo puts on a forced smile, saying that there has to be nights like these as well. But later, her actions are indicative of her real feelings. When she sees Ga-ryung laughing with the other girls who have flocked to her side after learning that she’s become the king’s favorite, she calls Ga-ryung aside to ask about her loyalties: Will she put Nok-soo first, or herself?

She looks a bit shaken, but Ga-ryung carries on with her day. As she’s hurrying to a musician troupe meeting, Ga-ryung picks up a purple ribbon—it’s the same one that Gil-dong had that tied him to Eorini. Ok-ran takes it from her hand, causing Ga-ryung to make the instant connection that Ok-ran is Gil-dong’s sister.

As all the apprentices are being inspected by Nok-soo, Ga-ryung only has eyes for Ok-ran, so happy to have finally found her lost sister-in-law. But Ok-ran makes a huge misstep that causes Nok-soo to trip and have her hair ornaments displaced. As a result, Ok-ran is whipped by Nok-soo’s own hand until Ga-ryung comes to her defense. But that only increases Nok-soo’s ire, and Ok-ran is taken away to prison.

Nok-soo demands another apprentice girl to accompany her to serve the king. She tells Yeonsangun that she sent a girl to prison for stepping on her skirts, and the king says that she did well in doing so. When she asks what final punishment she should give Ok-ran, the scene cuts to an announcement that the accompanying girl makes.

Nok-soo made her tag along as a witness, and the girl tells the rest of the apprentices that they should not presume to even think that they’re on the same level as the higher-level master musicians. And, she adds, they will be punished with consequences like death if they dare to do so.

Ga-ryung pleads with Nok-soo to be lenient toward Ok-ran, but the older woman just challenges her to try and stop her by using her own influence with the king. The other person who’s upset with the Ok-ran situation, Sang-hwa, cries as she looks at her closest friend in prison from afar. She says that she’ll try to save her and already has a plan in mind.

Park Ha-sung reports to the king that the scholars are preparing to answer Yeonsangun’s writing prompt with joy in order to put the king in a good mood. Then, he asks that he be put in charge of inspecting the outside workmen who will enter the palace on the day of the banquet, and Yeonsangun readily agrees.

Later, Gil-hyun hands over the scheduling details for the banquet to Gil-dong, giving him instructions on how to enter the palace without notice. The cave people tell the Hong brothers goodbye with well wishes regarding their mission.

Back at the prison, Ga-ryung brings Ok-ran some porridge, despite the possible danger to her own person. When Ok-ran asks why she’s risking so much to do so, Ga-ryung tells her about the purple ribbon, which was her husband’s. But in the middle of her explanation, Ok-ran interrupts and tells her that the ribbon is actually Sang-hwa’s, and Ga-ryung is completely taken aback.

Yes, finally! We know that Sang-hwa is Eorini, the secret Geo-in loyal to the Sugwidan who has been dispatched as a spy in the palace. She reports to Scholar Song that she knows that Gil-dong is alive from Nok-soo’s unconscious word slip-ups. She then starts to bring up that she needs a favor (possibly regarding Ok-ran’s situation).

On the day of the banquet, Gil-dong and his crew successfully pass through the palace gates with Gil-hyun giving all of them a pass. Yeonsangun is outfitted in fiercely regal red fur-lined attire, while the courtiers read praises about his works and pray for his healthful longevity.

He’s pleased with everything so far, when suddenly seven silhouettes wearing capes and masks appear on the rooftop (it’s kind of cheesy to the max because of the totally copycat Batman-esque costumes). Gil-dong announces his presence in a loud shout and calls the king by his given name, Yi Yung. Grenades explode all around Yeonsangun, and Gil-dong leaps from the rooftop, coming straight at him.

COMMENTS

The plot is going through all the correct motions, so I’m enjoying the drama on a surface level. But I’m still having trouble connecting with most of the characters. To be honest, I’m much more invested in Ga-ryung’s story arc than Gil-dong’s, because we all know he’s going to succeed: First, because he’s the hero and there’d be no story without him, and second, because of that beginning scene in the very first episode.

But wouldn’t it be awesome if the writers suddenly took a different direction, killed off Gil-dong, made Ga-ryung the star of the show, and had the rest of the episodes be about her slowly and craftily wreaking her revenge on Yeonsangun from the inside? I’ve always been fascinated by the harem power struggles, and for me, the changing dynamic between alpha Nok-soo, and her potential successor Ga-ryung was one of the most interesting parts of this episode. Cerebrally, Nok-soo has already accepted that a man’s (at least Yeonsangun’s) attention will wander, but when she faced it in reality, she still reacted with jealousy.

Compared to the males in this story, the female characters are definitely drawn as more complex (with the one exception being Amogae). Nok-soo’s motivations are so complicated—she first entered the palace so that she and women like her would never have to cower in fear of a man’s power. However, now she’s actively putting down other women, absolutely terrified that she’ll one day fall out of favor with one man, the king. She says she’s given up on love because she has already chosen Yeonsangun, but her will to survive seems to be strongly dependent on her desire to save Gil-dong, her one true love. Thus, her relationship with Ga-ryung is doubly confounded by these two men.

Speaking of powerful women, man, I love it that Sang-hwa—the fierce one—is Eorini, instead of Ok-ran, the doe-eyed one. Ok-ran was nice but bland as a character, and I wanted more spice from Eorini, although her brothers have devolved into Mr. Bland Good Guy and Mr. Blander Good Guy. Sang-hwa seems like a real person, with small petty jealousies when she can’t perform as well as her friend, while still having fierce loyalty to the same friend when she’s in trouble. Once she and Ga-ryung get on the same page, I’m sure they’ll be an amazing sister duo.

I guess I can’t end my commentary without talking about the actual main characters, as much as I am reluctant to do so. By showing the parallel nightmares, the writers are hammering home that the righteous Gil-dong, who uses his strength and potential for violence for good, is a foil to the corrupt character of Yeonsangun, who uses his birthright for cruelty. I honestly don’t know what else is left for their story arc other than the final battle. Perhaps there’ll be a small subplot where Yeonsangun holds Ga-ryung hostage, but other than that, these two just need to fight it out.

168

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1 ravennightstar

April 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM

I feel for Ga Ryung. I really do!
Now that she's found Eorini (who ended up being the girl who dislikes her and not the other one)..i really wonder what she's going to do next!
Is Eorini being brainwashed? Please tell me yes!

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buttercup

April 21, 2017 at 8:23 PM

Hope so!

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 5:36 AM

@1 ravennightstar April 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM:

As I was watching the Viki subtitles, one of the comments in the upper-left corner of the screen said "Stockholm Syndrome," and I would consider that a serious possibility for Eorini.

I shudder to think of the abuse she could have received at the hands of Sugwidan Sabu. Or foster mom, whom I strongly suspect could turn out to be Madam Jo. Egads, that would make her Jeong-hak's foster sister. But he was probably studying with Song Sabu and not living at home by then. -- The old biddy and Choongwongoon are going to flip if they ever find out they had HGD's sister in their clutches and didn't know it. Neener!

Another possibility is good old PTSD from being attacked and separated from Gil-hyun, then chased and nearly dragged off by more attackers. Then watching Orabeoni get slashed to near death, seeing him revive, go Mighty Child berserk, turn into the White Tornado, and annihilate their attackers. Then see him get shot full of arrows as they fall off the Cliff of Doom and into the river, where he rescues her from drowning. I think that's everything.

Geez, Eorini should be catatonic after all that. Unless she's got some Mighty Child in her. ;-)

I bet Ga-ryung is still going to try to save Doe Eyes. She may appeal to Shorty -- especially after she learns the identity of the girl's brother(s). One of them has to be Mori, and I think Eunuch Kim would pass along that kind of information to the king -- unless he's too scared to now.

I don't know who Doe Eyes' other brother(s) could be. Wait. Segul? Wasn't he adopted by a yangban family when he was little? He was already in Ikhwari when Amogae arrived with his kids. I suspect Heo Tae-hak and Mori were in the general area as well.

Maybe Doe Eyes will be liberated during the Hongs' jail break. That would give HGD a hostage to exchange -- or a family member to return to Mori "just because I feel like it."

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keiru

April 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM

Stockholm syndrome, it's interesting..

[ Victims of the formal definition of Stockholm syndrome develop “positive feelings toward their captors and sympathy for their causes and goals, and negative feelings toward the police or authorities”.[4] These symptoms often follow freed victims back into their previously ordinary lives. ]

But I wish I hadn't read it because it starts to scare the hell out of me about the Hong family's fate in the hands of Eorini and Song Sabu

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 3:55 PM

I've become attached to the idea that she's Mori's sister. And I would love for Gil-dong to build that grudging respect and gratitude from Mori. Because eventually it may mean Ga-ryung's life in exchange from the debt.

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AnonymousCommenter

April 22, 2017 at 6:27 AM

She has been with for some time now, and they also "saved" her, so whatever they say that will be how it is for her, like our culture and religions, we grew up with it so we believe it . They are also her secret masters anyway, so whether she likes it or not she'd have to do what they say.

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AnonymousCommenter

April 22, 2017 at 6:33 AM

Also she just do what she can to survive

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2 keiru

April 21, 2017 at 9:17 PM

Well, at least Eorini grows up as a strong and brave girl at heart, she should be able to adapt easily to the dangerous lifestyle the Hong clan has (that's if she ever reunites with her brothers..)

But, considering her personality now, why do I feel like she will go againts her family even after she finds out about the harsh fact? I don't want Gil Dong to suffer another heartbreak if he finds out that Eorini is no longer his sweet little sister he used to know

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latteholic

April 21, 2017 at 9:52 PM

I probably will regret saying this later, but I have faith in Eorini and I believe she's genuinely kind on the inside. And once she gains her memories back she will be loyal to her brothers just like how she's been loyal to Ok Ran. Also, I have a feeling that her tattling on Nok Soo is a part of her plan. Either she's trying to earn favors from Scholar Song in order to get Ok Ran free or she's trying to put Nok Soo in difficult position related to Gil Dong to delay Ok Ran's execution because Yeongsangun will be too preoccupied with knowing that one of his closest people is betraying him.

Anyway, I feel like the writer is totally trolling us in the most obvious way though. If GilDong and GilHyun can recognize Eorini just by looking at her, then of course it's that girl who resembles little Eorini the most >.< .

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keiru

April 22, 2017 at 6:59 AM

Yes, I'm still hoping for another twist. I just want Gil Hyun and Gil Dong to get their cute little sister back, I have already been imagining about the look on their face when Eorini finally recognize her brothers

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 7:25 AM

@latteholic April 21, 2017 at 9:52 PM:

HGD finally gets a good look at his sister and recognizes her. Ditto for hyung-nim. I really do feel foolish about being faked out by the Eorinis. It was that doggone purple ribbon, I tell you. Chalk it up to the misleading cast info. And being trolled to the max. Arg.

It was the same thing with VOICE and the identity of the serial killer, which was misleading for quite a while. Once revealed, the show turned into a harrowing character study.

Back to Eorini. Ok-ran tells Ga-ryung she's really a kind person, and I have no reason to disbelieve Doe Eyes. So is it really a matter of Eorini having no memories, or just pretending to have no memories? I really think she's got a double-agent deep-cover thing going on.

Your analysis of Eorini's tattling on Nok-soo makes sense to me.

I'm still wondering what's going on with Song Sabu's spy and whether he's some kind of double agent as well.

Dang! I just remembered that Eorini doesn't know that Gil-dong now has a surname any more than Gil-hyun used to.

The way Ga-ryung stood up to Eorini and even went on the offensive against her was really something. I was cheering for her, actually. But it just underscores how dead set she is on exacting revenge against the king. Considering how insistently Eorini is also jockeying to get into the king's good graces, might she also be an mission to assassinate him? I wouldn't put it past Song Sabu. That man is diabolical.

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 4:15 PM

I can't wait to find out Eorini's true motives. I think it might be something surprising.

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kiara

April 24, 2017 at 2:58 AM

I still don't think the writer is done with Eorini yet. I won't be surprise if she is actually the other girl.
They have to explain who her brothers are and how she knows the song that only Amogae and his people are associated with etc.

On the other hand I hope that this is it. It's been dragged on for far too long.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 9:12 AM

Omo. Writer-nim pulling a triple- or quadruple-fake?!

As for the song, since Ikhwari was a "company town," it's possible that the residents who weren't actual gang members might still know the song.

I think that Mori's family may have been local, and that would explain Ok-ran's familiarity with the song -- if she is indeed his sister. Or she could have learned it from Ambitious Eorini.

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 10:44 AM

I have half a mind to think you're right, but I also agree with @pakalanapikake .

kiara

April 24, 2017 at 11:10 AM

Learning the song from the other Eorini makes the most sense because Heotaehak and his crew moved in from a different province.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 2:41 PM

In THE KING'S DAUGHTER, a song that Seolnan learned growing up in Gaya was one of the clues to her origins. It worked very nicely, so Writer-nim may have decided to use it here, too.

3 deegee

April 21, 2017 at 9:24 PM

I honestly burst out laughing when the Hong Avengers appeared on the rooftops in masks. Was it supposed to be cheesy?

I agree though, Gil Dong's character has kinda just been going through the motions. But i like that that gives the other characters space for development.

Eorini did have some spunk in her.. Remember how in a scene long ago she was saying something about if someone doesn't do something well they can't marry her? So I'm not surprised, though i was secretly hoping it was sweet Eorini just because she's nice and kind.

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:03 AM

That "seven against the sun" moment on the rooftop cracked me up. Batman has six clones?!

After everything HGD's been through lately, I'm glad he's easing off on doing so much of the heavy lifting and letting others step up to the plate. Delegating and letting others take the initiative are characteristics of good leaders. Instead of acting on someone's behalf, he's empowering them to do it themselves with training and mentoring. "Give a man a fish..."

I appreciate how Gil-dong asks for help. Too often, saviors try to do everything by themselves. The downside to that: no one truly values things they don't work to obtain or achieve on their own.

I loved that scene when HGD asks for help, and finally an apologetic ahjumma says she'll help in any way she can. Then a couple of other women chime in while the men finally end up volunteering out of embarrassment.

I also like how HGD's exchange of letters with Gil-hyun is giving him an education in how the government operates. He's a sharp cookie.

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 4:24 PM

Batman had a huge Batfamily of 5-6 people who have been Robins, one Nightwing and 3-4 who have been Batgirl. Oh and a Batwoman. Plus Alfred. They all still float around and help him lol.

I LOVE how Gil-dong is empowering others. I also love that it was the women who were first wanting to help him despite not being able to do much. I also love how Yong-gae was able to understand their fears and the mudang's point that you need to show people what is possible and wins are possible.

The Gil-dong-Gil-hyun relationship is amazing now. I love how they're teaching each other.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 11:06 AM

I loved the scene with the women too! Thank you for reminding me!

Intersting thought about the downsides of being a One-Man-Hero. I have never thought about it before, but it makes perfect sense!

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4 June

April 21, 2017 at 9:32 PM

Haha, i loled when i saw the batman attires too, complete with some silver lightning? symbol embroidery on the front.. haha..

I do wonder if eorini lost her memory cause of the trauma. Gil dong lost his memory for a short while too then.

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keiru

April 21, 2017 at 10:54 PM

Yeah, it was the cringiest moment in Rebel I got a severe secondhand embarrassement the entire scene

Btw, I just found this funny article ><

http://kkul-jaem.blogspot.com/2017/04/byungmat-directing-in-sageuks.html?m=1

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keiru

April 21, 2017 at 11:04 PM

Nevertheless, I am still loving Rebel (and Yoon Kyun Sang) wholeheartedly :) ♥

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latteholic

April 21, 2017 at 11:05 PM

LMAO. Thanks for sharing this!!! I died with each scroll.

I honestly thought that scene was deliberately made to be cheesy and ridiculous though. Because if you're going to crash Yeonsangun's party, might as well do it in cheesy Joseon Zorro Halloween costumes and banmal him in front of everyone XD

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 12:32 AM

That Party Shitty realness...

(Yes, that is a pun.)

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keiru

April 22, 2017 at 7:47 AM

Also, if it was a romcom sageuk, Gil Dong's archery lesson thing would have been another perfect cheesy scene candidate.. Glad that Rebel is not really those kind of show ^^

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 2:44 PM

Dang! I just realized that HGD and the boys were throwing their own "Rooftop Party." LOL!

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 3:10 PM

There is such a disconnect for me between "Mr. Rooftop Party" and Yeonsangun as the same people lol.

5 Lessa

April 21, 2017 at 9:38 PM

Finally! No more Who-Ri-Ni! :D

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6 Lessa

April 21, 2017 at 9:42 PM

Im still curious who the other Non-Eorini is though. She could still be important.

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ravennightstar

April 21, 2017 at 10:14 PM

Yea I was thinking that too.
I read somewhere (not sure where) that she could be Mo ri's sister.
Did Mo Ri lose a sister..? Lol

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:19 AM

Doe Eyes said she lost her brothers, plural. I've been thinking that Mori is her brother. But since she had more than one, who else could be related to her and Mori. I came up with Segul, who was adopted by a yangban family when he was little.

Six Degrees of Hong.

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AnonymousCommenter

April 22, 2017 at 6:37 AM

One of my theories is that she could be 1. Noksoo's daughter, was it mentioned that her child is a girl or boy?
2. It could also be that she is one of yeonsanggun's half sister? Or full sister? Remember the disposed queen's child died, could it be that it was actually a princess rather than a prince.

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:22 AM

Nok-soo's child was a boy.

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Sera The Ms Temper

April 23, 2017 at 7:11 AM

I dont think this drama will make Jung Da Bin played some side character and make the less experienced one has more important role than her. LOL sorry because I just dont accept the ambitious one is the real Eorini. To make up for it, I think Ok Ran has more significance to this drama rather than just to be a part of game of confusion who the real Eorini.

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7 chouc

April 21, 2017 at 10:01 PM

Anyone else thinking that Ok Ran might be Mo Ri’s sister ? idk, they keep mentionning her lost brother, i find it suspiscious. Or maybe i’m just looking for reasons for Mo Ri to join Team Gil Dong XD. I mean, for now, they showed that Mo Ri isn’t 100% Team Baddies, but Ga Ryung or Gil Dong saving Ok Ran could be the positive trigger for a definitive change of heart ...

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wifey

April 21, 2017 at 11:12 PM

Ooh sounds plausible ...

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buttercup

April 21, 2017 at 11:33 PM

Omg ! Yea she culd be Mo ri's sis! But did they ever mention that he had a sis?

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:29 AM

Ok-ran says she lost her brothers. We don't know how many yet. But I've been suspecting she could be related to Mori. I've also suspected that Mori could be Ga-ryung's long-lost Mighty Child brother, which is why he seems to have a crush on her. It may not be a crush so much as vague recognition when meeting her again after she was sold off. (But was she really sold off? She calls herself Joseon's best liar. So she may not be related to Mori after all.)

I'm hoping for a nice redemptive twist for Mori.

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 4:28 PM

Plus it's a great parallel that both Mighty Children have missing siblings and Ga-ryung's feelings that Ok-ran is her sister isn't just in a sister in law way....but a blood way.

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8 Martin J Simwaba

April 21, 2017 at 10:22 PM

Wait a minute, so the real Eorini is the enemy's spy? And she remembers that she was seperated from her brothers. But, she can't remember their names?

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latteholic

April 21, 2017 at 10:36 PM

Ok Ran is the one who got separated from her brother.
Eorini who is the enemy's spy doesn't seem to remember that she has brothers. We only know that she's living with her adoptive mother

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9 latteholic

April 21, 2017 at 10:54 PM

I just want to mention that one thing I loved about this episode was when GilHyun met the Hongvengers. That looks they exchanged at the gate was so heartwarming, esp when he saw Eop San. I was like, yeah the two BFF are finally reunited!

I can't wait to see how Garyung and Nok Soo relationship will develop from here on. Although I'm sad also that the womance between these two in the palace was so short-lived.

Anyway I lol-ed this episode when GaRyung recognized Eunuch Kim as THAT guy who's peeking at Gildong taking a bath and of course at that ridiculously cheesy ending! :D

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 12:06 AM

I was sooo emotional when Gil-hyun finally saw all the Hongvengers after so many years apart. And how each of them had a moment...My heart nearly burst lol. Just the looks on each of their faces. And then his bff Eop-san. OT: I hate Gil-dong's beard. I generally don't like YKS with a beard lol.

Their relationship is so interesting. It's gone from being so warm and friendly and Nok-soo being someone who seemed to like to nurture Ga-ryung to something completely different. Who you're around really influences who you are and Yeonsangun's ruthlessness and violence is rubbing off on Nok-soo. Sure, it may just be for her own survival, but she's losing herself in her quest to remain on top. Nok-soo is really starting to become the mother who sacrifices/abandons her children to suffering. She sacrifices Ok-ran to put Ga-ryung in her place and keep her position. It was interesting to see her shift. As soon as Ga-ryung earned favour with Yeonsangun and got into his bedchamber, she was off to the races. It was also interesting how punishing Ok-ran was also a message to all the other gisaengs. She also escalated her punishment of Ok-ran immediately when Ga-ryung stepped in.

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keiru

April 22, 2017 at 3:31 AM

For the life of me, just don't tell Nok Soo that Gil Dong is your husband Ga Ryung-ah, or else Nok Soo might become the real evil woman in the Palace. Nok Soo might be the one who ask the King to use Ga Ryung as a bait to lure Gil Dong out at the stake scene. I really am scared for Ga Ryung now..

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 11:08 PM

It will truly show Nok-soo's decent if she does that since it would totally alienate her from the one person who has actually cared about her.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 2:55 PM

The Hong reunion with Gil-hyun was intense in its understatement. It finally dawned on me that some of the guys were totally poker-faced because they knew they'd blow their cover if they weren't careful.

The mutual recognition scene between Ga-ryung and Shorty was also very well done. It was also touching to me (and Ga-ryung) how he asked her to bore His Majesty to sleep -- and she could see he was acting out of concern for his boss. Later, the expression on the king's face as he listened intently to her story was so soft and vulnerable that I almost forgot for a moment that the guy is a ruthless tyrant.

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10 urnaa

April 21, 2017 at 11:00 PM

I am not following this drama. But Kim Ji Suk is one of my favorite actor and ultimate second lead crush (I Need Romance 2012 ), (The Vineyard Man). Chae Soo Bin is so beautiful and she needs rom-com.

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:36 AM

He was great in CHUNO, too, as the youngest slave hunter and total lady killer.

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11 cloveredlioness

April 21, 2017 at 11:17 PM

Lol. I kinda love the Batman imagery...However, I would say Gil-dong is more Dick Grayson aka Robin and later Nightwing than Batman. Purely because Bruce is so pathological about being a vigilante and has never gotten over the death of his parents. Whereas Dick is like Gil-dong and has come to a peace and compassion for why he fights injustice despite having murdered parents. Amogae is probably the Batman. Also the domino masks and that R looking logo is so Robin. That being said, Bruce 'dies' and Dick becomes Batman with Bruce's cantankerous son as Robin. It took Dick a lot to assume the mantle of the bat...and I loved the new dynamic and would love a Gil-dong-Mori dynamic duo. Lol.

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12 enkeys

April 21, 2017 at 11:56 PM

I don't know if the writer overlooked this but if that assistant of Song Sabu knew who the real Eorini is all along, why didn't he tell his party few episodes back? Also, the mask and logo, I lol-ed. I don't know if there's any need though, as everyone knows how Gil-dong looks like. In any case, Yoon Kyun-sang is still sexy in my eyes, so all is well XD

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outofthisworld

April 22, 2017 at 12:05 AM

Why does Gil Dong even need a disguise? His height is a dead giveaway. In the scene where Gil Hyun had to pass the palace gates, he was like two heads above everyone else.

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 12:30 AM

And everyone important already knows what he looks like...But I guess they don't want others to know who haven't seen him lol...

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AnonymousCommenter

April 22, 2017 at 6:41 AM

almost everyone in hanyang also has seen him considering he was outside the palace gates for a few days

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:42 AM

I've been pondering that exact question, and also because of the height issue. It cracks me up.

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latteholic

April 22, 2017 at 5:21 AM

That was what I had in mind when it was first revealed, that's why I thought that Eorini could have been adopted by Song Sabu's assistant after he found her, and he never said anything because he wanted to protect her.

Now I'm honestly still curious about GilHyun's missing slaves case, because they have to be related right? I'm still crossing my fingers that in the end it will be revealed that Geoin is actually a group of double spies who is working to destroy the Sugwidan from within (just like what @pakalanapikake has speculated before).

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 8:38 AM

I think Song Sabu's spy is a double agent, and will be taking Sugwidan apart from the inside. One can only hope.

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Sera The Ms Temper

April 23, 2017 at 7:16 AM

Yes this spy looks a bit suspicious. He doesnt seem to be so loyal with Song Sabu imo. He could be double agent or has his own agenda.

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13 outofthisworld

April 22, 2017 at 12:14 AM

I don't know if any actor can possibly pull off the ridiculous Robin mask but Yoon Kyun Sang's chubby cheeks made it even more hilarious.

I am probably the exception but I find Gil Dong and gang boring compared to politics and crazy situation in the palace. I enjoyed Nok Soo and Ga Ryung's scenes the most.

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esj000

April 22, 2017 at 7:40 AM

You're not the only one, I prefer the palace politics over the Amogae Avengers too.

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Sera The Ms Temper

April 23, 2017 at 7:19 AM

This writer probably should write female centric sageuk for next project as what he/she did in King's Daughter. This show should belong to Hong Gil Dong and the Avengers, but I am mostly interested what happen inside the palace.

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Sera The Ms Temper

April 23, 2017 at 7:23 AM

But still overall this drama is quite a good sageuk especially these days sageuk drama not good ones. We need this writer to keep writing sageuk.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 7:47 AM

Yes, we need her to stay with sageuk! And next time we tell her to choose a better title! This one would have the expectations of the audience and the actual content of the drama a lot more in sync if it would have been titled "Rebel: Thief Who Became the Thief Who Stole the People".

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latteholic

April 23, 2017 at 2:41 PM

And I hope next time they won't release a synopsis that actually starts more than 2/3 into the drama, because that just gives a much more different expectations... :D

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cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:44 PM

Right? And not just for the plot summary, but for the characters. It's just confusing.

cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:42 PM

Or just have kept it Rebel: Hong Gil Dong. It's precise, to the point and doesn't make you have expectations of what it should be right away. I mean, Gil-dong always had a rebellious attitude and it would have fit his gangster years better.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 11:09 AM

And we also have to keep the director and the whole music department working with sageuks!

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cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:43 PM

I would jump to the next thing they produce right away if the entire team is the same.

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kiara

April 24, 2017 at 3:20 AM

Expectation for sageuks keeps getting lowered as time goes by.
The last conventional sageuk that left a bit of hope that this genre is still taken seriously was "Jeong Do-jeon."
Nothing so far came close to Princess Man on (politic/romance) or a political thriller like "Conspiracy in the Court."

Upcoming sageuks are mostly romance based and not much to do with the history. Cheaper to make and more popular these days.

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liina

April 24, 2017 at 5:11 AM

Lol, it's true, I still remember how my Korean history teacher lamented the death of sageuks when Dae Jang-geum came out... From todays perspective one would take Dae Jang-geum a lot more serious than back then...

I do enjoy adventurous sageuks or fantasy sageuks like this one. But my dream would be that Koreans would stop to put them into a specific historical timeframe. Or I would enjoy it, when they would be set in the Three Kingdoms time, minus Shilla. Since we don't know so much about Goguryeo and even less about Baekje and the Gaya confederation, a fantasy adventure tale could take more liberties since it wouldn't clash with our historical knowledge. (Argh, speaking of Gaya reminds me, that it's such a shame that they made such a mess out of the King Suro drama... :()

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kiara

April 25, 2017 at 5:10 AM

@liina
Pretty sad for sageuk/history fans :(.
My mom thought that Dae Jang-geum was a real historical drama. I had to explain to her that the Annals only mentioned her name in a few sentences and that was it. The whole story was made up by the writer.

I'm big on history but I'd watch any type of sageuk if it's done well. "The Duelist" is not my type of sageuk but it was gorgeous with a refreshing way of storytelling that I can't help but love it.
I think you'd enjoy "Musa: The Warrior" if you haven't seen it.

I'd love more 3 kingdom era sageuks but the lack of historical materials makes it a lot harder I think.
Lol agree about King Suro. That was such a hot mess.
I wouldn't mind a sageuk based on Urek and the invention of the gayageum. That would also include Shilla etc.

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liina

April 25, 2017 at 3:10 PM

I'd die for an Ureuk sageuk. It would have so much potential! One could include so many things that would make it really epic. Music, landscape, the whole political stuff that happenend in his times... I was so happy when they announced some years ago they would made a movie adaption of Kim Hoon's novel "A song of strings" - especially because Kim Hoon's novels are famous for being very well researched and historically accurate. And then the whole project never came to life! I still don't know why it was cancelled. :(

Yes, I have seen Musa. But I made a big mistake back then: I watched the UK DVD version without knowing that they had cut the movie and they basically had cutted out all the important dialogues... In the end it felt a little bit empty to me. I watched the cutted scenes later and I'm convinced that I would have liked the movie a lot better if I would have seen the full version. Musa was the first movie with Ahn Sung-ki that I watched and he left a huge impression! I also liked the soundtrack and the cinematographie.

Duelist is very artistic in a good way! I like it too!

14 cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 12:28 AM

Whenever Ga-ryung bows and starts talking to Yeonsangun, she grits her teeth and I'm just like...the king better watch out or it will be Ga-ryung in the bedchamber with a hairpin...I do actually wouldn't mind if Ga-ryung ends up killing Yeonsangun while he sleeps with a hairpin. I kinda wanted Ga-ryung to tell some kind of story filled with reference to either her situation or her experiences with Gil-dong. And now that her narration and story of Gil-dong's story includes even MORE details she's not privy to, I'm convinced she must make it through alive. PLEASE!

When Nok-soo comments on how Ga-ryung's lost her liveliness, I was all T_T. It's what happens when you think the love of your life has been killed. I find their conversation so interesting because this is the last scene, maybe the last time Nok-soo will ever have any genuine affection for Ga-ryung and probably anyone else. Up until this point, everything she did for survival was harsh, but not full on cruel to innocents. I also think if the king could genuinely love her, Nok-soo would be able to feel secure in that and would have behaved differently despite the competition from Ga-ryung. It's interesting how her descent into the historical Nok-soo is based on her own survival and desire to keep her own position. I'm not sure she's doing all this purely to be in a position to save/help Gil-dong. She knows he's gone from the palace, so what's the point of continuing to protect him when he can now protect himself? I'm curious to find out what will happen when she learns that Gil-dong married Ga-ryung.

In contrast, there's even more evidence for Ga-ryung to be the mother who protects her children and nurtures them. She tried to protect Ok-ran and I'm sure part of that is her potential connection to Gil-dong, but I do feel like despite her need for revenge, she's not going to lose her soul to go about taking it. She's also again around live flowers, like when she picks them with the other gisaengs while Nok-soo and Eorini get annoyed with her.

I think there's misplaced envy on why the others are around Ga-ryung. She's such a warm, caring person that people can't help but want to be around her. So while her rise to win the king's favour is also important, I don't think she made those friends because they are shallow people as Sang-hwa implies. (I also think she's manipulating Nok-soo.)

I think part of Sang-hwa's antagonism with Ga-ryung is based on the fact that Ga-ryung is usurping the established order and jumping steps that she went through to be where she's at now. It's a reflection of her time with Song Sabu. When we learned that Sang-hwa was Eorini, I was kinda sad because I had stopped wanting her to be Ga-ryung and wanted Ok-ran instead, but Sang-hwa certainly makes more sense lol. I wonder how much of a spy she is and how much is survival? It will also be interesting if her adopted mom does end up being Madam Jo...the very woman who caused the...

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 12:29 AM

...death of her actual mom...Wow. So close to not getting chopped, but here we are lol.

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15 Saner

April 22, 2017 at 1:23 AM

LollyPip, how on earth did you manage to write what exactly is in my (fanfictionny) head? I was so disinterested by all our male counterpoints and their 'Point A to Point B' plotting....whereas the ladies (for once! FOR ONCE!) have complex characteristics, motivations and plot lines. My narrative addicted brain is basically drooling at the bit thinking about all the potential for conflict....tasty, tasty conflict....

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16 beansoverflowers

April 22, 2017 at 1:49 AM

I'M LOVING THIS. Probably because I jumped on this bandwagon only this week, so the trajectory until now has felt more fulfilling. (Thanks for the recaps, seriously. I had scrolled through them every week, but it was only after seeing Yeonsangun with those bloody human bags did I become interested enough to watch some clips on youtube, and Garyung/Gildong's relationship just pulled me in. I am now at the mercy of Garyung t b h.

I am definitely loving the politics between the girls in the palace; Garyung has been forcibly matured by deep sadness, but she's always had an iron will and I love how that's coming across. That moment when she grabbed Eorini's hand was so good, and then her forthrightly but carefully speaking to Noksoo, even better!

But I am loving the boys as well. Seeing Hong Gil-Dong progress from familial revenge to something that's shaking the whole country has been awesome, and those scenes with his crew dealing their justice out were a+. He really is becoming the rebel who steals the people.

I am v ready for the next couple of episodes, and my heart is not twisting up frightfully yet, but only because I trust the strawberry dream/recollection scene was placed carefully so as to highlight his finesse with a bow. IF YOU DARE KILL GARYUNG AND IT'S A 'I LOST MY WIFE BUT FOUND MY SISTER' TYPE I WILL BE SO MAD. (Also, I feel like we're probably due for an agonising death of one of the avenger crew, but I don't want itttttttttttttt.)

Now that the who-ri-ni is over, keen to see how they're both essential to the plot. Really hope we get some more scenes with both of them with Garyung and/or Noksoo. I'm also behind the Mori-sister suggestion, but I think we all just want Mori to have been on the good side all along/do a switch for his sister ;;; Sniffs.

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latteholic

April 22, 2017 at 5:33 AM

You're so lucky! I sometimes wish I had marathoned this instead. I still enjoy watching this live, but I got frustrated sometimes figuring out everyone's motivation, GilDong's tsundereness, and the famous Answer Me Eorini 1498.

You jump in at the right moment where every little details is starting to pay off and the female characters are finally not sidelined from the action anymore :) I'm also on the team who loves both the girls and the boys in this drama :)

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cloveredlioness

April 22, 2017 at 4:37 PM

I love how the women are so strong and important to the story. So many dramas end up dropping this like City Hunter and most of Defendant.

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beansoverflowers

April 23, 2017 at 5:17 AM

Yeah, I do agree that it was probably much more frustrating to watch as a weekly viewer. Coming back to the recaps, there was a repeated theme of 'this is all set up ....' and I'm thankful I didn't have to deal with that, because it's all coming together now (fingers crossed).

Perhaps I wouldn't be such a fan of Gildong if I had to watch his ~tsundereness~ week after week, but now looking back I'm just able to be like 'awww he totally bopped that dude on the head for hitting her' and 'awww he said she was pretty and gave her a piggy back too' and 'aWWWW he admitted to liking her' (& damn him, for she probably had to keep that one speech in her head for FOUR YEARS AND HAD TO MAKE HER OWN MOVE BECAUSE HE'S TOO DENSE AND NOBLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT).

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 8:25 AM

Marathoning dramas has its ups and downs. With this drama, there probably is less frustration watching all at once. On the other hand I wouldn't have want to miss for the world, to read the comments each week. There are so many clever beanies here, that brought up so many interesting observations and shared so much knowledge! I learned so many new things reading each episodes comments. I think that easily made up for a little bit frustration once in a while.

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latteholic

April 23, 2017 at 2:38 PM

Oh yes! I definitely enjoy reading the comments each week as well. This drama is so loaded with personal vignettes, social commentaries, and parallelisms that I wouldn't get without reading the comments here.

This comments section has become my kind of drama-addiction support group that helps to ease the grief and frustration of waiting for episodes each week. :)

cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:52 PM

@latteholic Me too! I love learning more things about what the writer may have intended or just having the collective knowledge of everyone here. And of course having people to discuss this drama with lol.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 1:06 AM

@liina April 23, 2017 at 8:25 AM:

Me, four, re: the comments. I've been enjoying batting ideas around with all the Beanies. It's great fun to guess what Writer-nim has up her sleeve. Ditto for trying to figure out what we've seen.

I knocked myself out trying to keep up with the scads of great posts in the past couple of recaps. Information overload gridlocked my grey matter by the time episode 24 rolled around. Alas, there is no RAM upgrade I can do on myself. And purging all the trivia in the dusty corners of my mind would deprive me of the raw material for my observations. ;-)

Grokking the show overflowed my buffer, and I couldn't focus my thoughts. I saw parallels and oblique references emerge. Got flooded with memes, images, associations, metaphors. Tried to digest the whole shebang before translating it into words that make sense. Ended up with a mental bellyache – and sleep deprivation.

The process of commenting gives my mind a workout. And agita when I can't shut it off.

From a purely logistical standpoint, I find the absence of running numbers in the threads makes replying messy in these long, extended volleys, so I include bylines and date/time stamps. Trying to follow the bouncing indentations gets really old very quickly. The longer/deeper the thread, the narrower the 4.5-line input screen becomes. It makes composing and proofreading a nightmare.

I now compose in open-source LibreOffice Writer, which supports hanja and hangeul characters. It has a very handy character counter -- one of the features of the old site that I really miss. Then I copy to a notepad window to strip out unwanted carriage returns and other formatting before uploading.

There used to be a 3,000-character limit for posts, which included non-printing characters (HTML encoding), and emoticons. But it works out better for me to leave a couple of hundred characters' worth of slack to avoid truncation. If I can rein myself in. ;-)

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 10:46 AM

@pakalanapikake I would love for there to be a character counter. It' be SOOO helpful.

cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:51 PM

Lol. You really had to read the clues and intuit where it was going with Gil-ryung when Gil-dong was full on tsundere. But I think Gil-dong also enjoyed Ga-ryung's attention even if he refused to outwardly really show it, like when everyone was hungover from entertaining Pedo Prince and he was the only one to receive her honey tea. And I whereas his feelings for Nok-soo were immediate once they were forced together by circumstance, his feelings for Ga-ryung just built slowly over time and I think caught him off guard. And Amogae knew that Gil-dong liked her back even though for awhile it was like 'Are you really sure about that, Amogae? I know you're his dad but he's such a stone wall!'

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latteholic

April 24, 2017 at 4:21 AM

Amogae is the captain of the ship!
I can totally picture him looking down at Soburi at that wedding night scene and replying "Ship sailed" :D

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 10:50 AM

@latteholic LOL! I pictured that with Amogae in RayBan sunglasses lol. I'll bet Amogae was witness to a lot of Gil-ryung moments we never got to see onscreen. I can totally see Gil-dong refusing to acknowledge her when they were in close proximity but then paying attention to her from afar. And just being a little overly considerate any time she mentioned something just like being cold and Gil-dong heating the rock for her.

17 liina

April 22, 2017 at 2:15 AM

@kiara: Sorry, my answer is a little bit late. If you want a book Hong Gil-dong Tale I'd still recommend "The story of Hong Gil-dong" from Penguin classics. It's an english translation from one of the longest of the 19th century manuscripts. It has all the parts that were ever used to make an adaption of the story. It's no Princess Bride but it's a fun and easy read. As I said before: the introduction to that book is a very one-sided perpective though.
Film and movie adaptions: I wasn't happy with any I have seen. Till last week I'd probably have said that I liked this one best, but since last episode ended with "let's go steal the people" and this one went into Punisher mode again "let's go punish the King", I'm a little bit peeved.

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liina

April 22, 2017 at 2:16 AM

I'm so tired, sorry, I meant "drama and movie adaptions"...

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kiara

April 22, 2017 at 6:46 AM

Thanks liina!
Is this Kang Min-soo's translation? One of my Korean friends might have it so I'm excited. I was about to buy it online.
For me this started off with a realistic take on the historical Gil Dong but then he's becoming more of a comic book hero that I find it hard to take him seriously.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 3:51 AM

Yes, it's Kang Min-soo's translation. All the 19th century texts are very supernatural though and the text Kang Min-soo used is highly spirituell. For me the shorter 19th century manuscrips are easier to read and understand. I have found out through the dramabeans commentaries that I used to read Hong Gil-dong from only one angle. I probably should read the Kang Min-soo translation from the long 19th century manuscript again.

It still is the one I would recommend most. Firstly because it's a full translation. Secondly I don't know of any other english translation from the old manuscripts ;). Thirdly because as I said it has all parts that were ever used for an adaption and it is also said to "probably" be the oldest of the existing manuscripts. - Every other children's book, comic book etc. are just adaptions of the old manuscripts.

This drama is the only adaption I know that tried to ground the story a little bit. That's one of the reasons the drama felt special to me. I'm a little bit sad too that it now changed into whole superhero mode again.

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kiara

April 23, 2017 at 7:06 AM

Awesome thank you!
If they were going to start off with a more realistic take on Hong Gil Dong then they should've stick with it. A fantasy take like the current would've worked on it's own without going historical heavy on it.
There is no way in heck that a renowned scholar like Heo Gyun would write anything this ridiculous.
Gil Dong was captured and executed because he was a thief. He didn't even get to see the king's face let alone have this kind of confrontation with him.
It just blows my mind that he gets to insult the king in this manner and then fly off a building like an American batman with a cheap mask from Walmart. Whoa! cool...NOT.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 2:18 PM

I think that Batman/Zorro thing was only incorporated by the writer because Koreans take great pride in the fact that with Hong Gil-dong they have their own Superhero and they had one before Americans did. Koreans and their competitivness. Sigh.

Or it was incorporated that we know that from now on we leave any historical terrain and it will be fiction only?
I really do hope this will be the last appearance of capes and masks!

cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 7:59 PM

I would have preferred they used more of a ninja mask or cloth to obscure their features instead of the whole domino mask thing. It really takes you out. Or maybe carved wooden masks of some sort, like from theatre. That way it's another link to the traditional art that's portrayed in the drama and a nod to the fact that they've been around gisaengs...

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 1:43 AM

@cloveredlioness April 23, 2017 at 7:59 PM:

I agree with you about using Hahoe masks, or simply black cloth. It would have been a nice tip of the hat to THE KING AND THE CLOWN.

On the other hand, those nearly barefaced smirks would not have been visible. What's the point of thumbing one's nose (or beard) at the king if he can't see it?

Soboori looked every inch a Caesar with his elegant and straight-faced "thumbs down."

The comic book action was ridiculous and self-mocking. Maybe the show doesn't want to take itself too seriously. I also think that liina's comment on Korean national pride over a homegrown superhero makes a lot of sense.

The cheesiness is inversely proportional to the gravitas that Yeonsangun is shooting for. HGD hollering in banmal to the king is the perfect contrast to the excruciatingly formal tones in which the minister read the yool poem of loyalty. (He was great. I was having flashbacks to hearing sermons in church as a kid.)

It's all part of the cognitive dissonance and anachronistic humor being dished out before Eorini's lost shoe drops -- along with the axe hanging over Ok-ran's head.

kiara

April 24, 2017 at 2:52 AM

Thank you guys! I know I know, it's properly a nod to the classic cartoon hero but it threw me off here because it's been pretty much heavy on the history when it comes to the palace even down to Nok-soo handing out the death penalty to a gisaeng that stepped on her skirt.

I somehow wish that the old Gil Dong had died in prison and brought back to life by the shammy and we can go the superhero route.

Maybe Amogae set the bar too high. I'm bit grumpy with the later half of the show for some reason.

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 10:57 AM

@pakalanapikake I just loved the contrast between the brown nosing ministers and the irreverent treatment of Yeonsangun. It was so good. And I think you're right about being able to see their facial expressions...but since they were backlit and about to presumably cause chaos...they probably didn't need to mask themselves. You know, they could even PAINT theatre style masks on their faces and it would be a little more believable.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 3:08 PM

@cloveredlioness April 24, 2017 at 10:57 AM:

Good point about the backlighting when staring into the sun.

I'm reminded of a scene early in THE KING'S DAUGHTER when Crown Prince Myongnong sets out on his first outing with the king's spies. He's introduced to two armed men on horseback who are wearing silk masks. When he asks Marshal Hae why they're wearing masks, the reply is : "Because it looks impressive." LOL!

18 liina

April 22, 2017 at 2:42 AM

@pakalanapikake Regardless of what was said in episode 0, this drama only integrated parts of what we know about the historical Hong Gil-dong. It's not a drama about the historical Hong Gild-dong. The very few things we know about the historical Hong Gil-dong from the Joseon Wangjo Sillok is only that:

1500
- He was the head of a robber gang.
- He was trailed and executed for treason in the year 1500. The reason why he was executed for treason was, because for his thieveries he pretend to be and dressed like a yangban.

1513
- His area of operation was the Chungcheong area. Even in 1513 the peasants of that area were still so afraid of his gang, that they didn't want to return their fields and homes which led to many unused fields and problems with the agricultural supply in that area.

1523
- Hong Gil-dong is mentioned in a short comparison when a groups of thieves worried Joseon.

1530
- Hong Gil-dong is mentioned in a short comparison when a groups of thieves worried Joseon.

There is no indication from any historical source that the historical Hong Gil-dong was more than a mere chief of a robber's gang, a pretty brazen one and a pretty well known though.

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PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 6:53 PM

Thanks, liina.

Maybe it's me, or maybe it's the subtitles for the special. Or it could be insufficient sleep. Understanding everything that's going on in this show versus the novel and the historical record has gotten "mighty" challenging.

It suddenly occurred to me to ask: Does the surname of the HGD in the novel also mean "noisy," or is a different hanja character used?

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 3:27 AM

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the comment in a bad way. The subtitles were fine and your understanding of what was said is perfectly in order, don't worry. :)

There really is a problem in not how it was said, but what was said in episode 0. They only used the 1500 and either the 1523 or the 1530 source from the annals. They concluded from that two sources that the historical Hong Gil-dong was a fighter for the oppressed. That's a common mistake in the historical Hong Gil-dong research that dates back to the early 20th century and used the novel as a historical source (!!!) as well. The problem is that the early 20th century research is still what is teached in literature school lessons and even university lessons in South Korea today, even though the contemporary Hong Gil-dong research again and again and again points out that the historical Hong Gil-dong being a hero of the people is highly unlikely in regards to the annals source from 1513. - The hero of the people elements from the novel are taken from Im Kkeok-jeongs life story. - Haha, now you have two different opinions and you can decide for yourself which seems more plausible to you. ;) - I only didn't want anybody who watches Episode 0 to take everything what was said for the sole truth.

So, now to the more interesting parts: that was a really good question, because it seems like they did change the Hong character. From the 19th century manuscripts some don't use any hanja at all, some use hanja in the title. But the 19th century manuscripts are only transcripts/retellings. I don't know if the lost "original" text used Hanja for the title. The 19th century manuscripts when using Hanja use the 洪 character for Hong. Which would mean: large, big; flood; river rapids. Sadly I don't know which Hanja the historical robber Hong Gil-dong used.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 4:10 AM

@liina April 23, 2017 at 3:27 AM:

Now I see what you were driving at: conflating two historical personages as the basis for the fictional hero of the novel.

Treating a novel as an historical record is problematic, to say the least. It would be like citing folktales about Paul Bunyan as eyewitness accounts of traditional North American forestry practices. Or space aliens regarding television broadcasts of sit-coms as factual historical accounts of life on planet earth, as in GALAXY QUEST.

I'm also watching SAIMDANG, and Im Kkeok-jeong appears in it from time to time. No wonder I'm going bonkers. ;-)

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liina

April 24, 2017 at 7:16 AM

Lol, it really is a little bit like galaxy quest. Fiction that becomes history...
Something similar happened to Heo Gyun as well. The knowledge Koreans have of Heo Gyun is also from the early 20th century, even though the contemporary historians see Heo Gyun quite differently. That's because some years ago someone wrote a historical novel about Heo Gyun that was based on the early 20th century research and that novel was a huge bestseller and now everybody knows the novel and the image of Heo Gyun that Koreans have is that of the novel Heo Gyun. :) - Now I'd really interested which Heo Gyun Hwajung used... By the way, I didn't know that Ahn Nae-sang played Heo Gyun in Hwajung before you mentioned it some days ago. Thanks for bringing it up!

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 9:58 AM

@liina April 24, 2017 at 7:16 AM:

I'm so glad I was able to supply you with a little fresh Heo Gyun & Ahn Nae-sang trivia for your edification. ;-)

I think it was his performance in HWAJUNG that made me really take notice of Ahn Nae-sang.

When I watched HWAJUNG about a year ago, I had only the episode 1 recap to go by, so ended up with a major case of Cast of Thousands-itis that was exacerbated by all the doggone pen names. I never got a good handle on the political factions and haggling at court. I was more interested in Gwanghaegun's efforts at making Joseon self-sufficient in firearms and ammunition development and production.

I enjoyed 25 episodes of Cha Seung-won as Gwanghae. Kim Jae-won as King Injo was by turns a hypocritical power junkie who made a Faustian bargain with the yangban and an exhausted puppet in over his head. I was surprised that I actually ended up feeling sympathy for him towards the end.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 4:52 AM

@liina April 23, 2017 at 3:27 AM:

Thank you so much for researching the hanja used for Hong in the story manuscripts. I'm so glad you liked those questions – because I have more of them! ;-)

1) Which hanja were used for HGD's name in the Sillok / Veritable Records?

2) What are the meanings of Gil-hyun (see below), Jo Soo-hak / Jeong-hak, Song Ga-ryung, Ok-ran, Gong-hwa, Sang Hwa, Ikhwari? (hwa = flower?)

I did a little digging and was thrilled to find the Veritable Records of Joseon online. They are being translated into English even as we speak, but the project will take 22 years, and has already been underway for five. I've posted links on my fan wall. The translator and bibliographic geek in me is thrilled by this project.

I think it was Kiara who had commented on the subtitles being problematical, especially since Writer-nim writes metaphorically. Considering how wordplay and puns often crop up in Kdramas, I couldn't help but wonder if something symbolic were being lost in translation, particularly in the case of personal names. We were already told of the double meaning of the "Reviving Beauty" gibang's name, depending on which hanja were used.

洪 -- "Which would mean: large, big; flood; river rapids." So the first meaning is akin to DAE?

In CHUNO, Dae-gil's name is translated as "Great Happiness" -- one of the great ironies of the show. It got me wondering about the meaning of HGD and his brother's names. Do they have "happiness" in their names, too? Amogae gave his boys names they could answer to with pride -- and that Lord Jo considered to be too good for mere servants. I guess when it came to naming Eorini, he was too grief-stricken to give her a better name than “child.”

Kim Ji-suk's character in OH HAE-YOUNG AGAIN was Jin-sang, which also means “strange,” IIRC. His character in CHUNO was Wang-Son, which was translated as “big hand,” if memory serves. That instantly brought to mind “Russian hands and Roman fingers.” Hae-young itself is a play on “mistake,” IIRC. I heard the term used in that context recently.

The wife of Lord Jo has never been referred to by name that I am aware of. We don't know her surname. Here she is a noblewoman, and she doesn't even have a given name of her own. For all we know, she could be Song Sabu's sister or other relative. I'm afraid she'll turn out to be distantly related to Grandfather Park, although Jo Jeong-hak would have brought it up a long time ago – if he were aware of it.

I'm still wondering about Horny Uncle and his relationship with Song Sabu. We don't know his name, either. Here's a chilling thought: If Ga-ryung really is Song Sabu's daughter, he might have wanted to marry her off to a powerful old goat in a strategic alliance. A yucky parallel to Choongwongoon going after Eorini. Pass the brain bleach!

Many thanks for your help! The game is afoot, Watson! ;-)

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liina

April 24, 2017 at 6:05 AM

Sadly I can't help you out here. We would need somebody with a better knowledge of the Korean language. If I would try to put the syllables of the names in the Hanja dictionary we would get x hanja for each syllable and we would have to start guessing. But you are right. Character names in Korean dramas are often directly related to the character.

Wol and hwa are often found in gisaeng's names. Wol is the sino-korean word for moon and hwa means flower - like you said. I think it is funny that Chun-hyang's gisaeng mother's name is Wolmae and the older Gisaeng's name in this drama is Wolhamae. But I don't know if there is any meaning to it.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 7:37 AM

Thanks, liina!

I was reminded of Chun-hyang's mother, too.

IIRC, in HWANG JIN-YI, there was a roll-call in which many of the gisaeng's names consisted of a flower name, moon, or jade along with a descriptor such as fragrant, shining, etc. Formulaic aliases for stock characters.

liina

April 24, 2017 at 10:46 AM

Ah, I nearly forgot. I also wanted to tell you that Madame Jo is listed as "Cham-bong's wife Mrs Park" 참봉부인 박씨 at hancinema.

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 11:01 AM

Doesn't homae mean grandmother? Is that part of Wolhomae's name? So she's 'moon grandmother'? Like a granny to all the gisaengs?

liina

April 24, 2017 at 12:14 PM

@cloveredlioness Halmae and Halmeoni means Granmother. The older gisaengs name is Wolhamae. Without "l".

cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 12:41 PM

@liina Thanks! The only reason why I thought so was because of 'Granny's Rice Soup' in Doctors lol. I totally watched that just for Yoon Kyun Sang.

PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 3:20 PM

@liina April 24, 2017 at 10:46 AM:

I also wanted to tell you that Madame Jo is listed as "Cham-bong's wife Mrs Park" 참봉부인 박씨 at hancinema.

Holy moly! Just as I suspected. This is an epic twist!

Thanks for pointing that out, liina! For whatever reason, I haven't looked at HanCinema for a long while.

HC and DramaWiki often give more extensive and detailed cast and crew information than AsianWiki, especially while a show is still airing.

19 Night Elf

April 22, 2017 at 2:43 AM

I've been waiting for this recap!

Ah, this episode made me cry a lot. I was a sobbing mess when the Hong Avengers finally met Gil-hyun. Eop San's expressions, especially, brought it for me. He has been Gil-hyun's best friend ever since they were young and it must have broke him so hard when he first thought Gil-hyun was dead. But to see that childhood friend standing in front of him... dressed in a manner showing how powerful he has become on his own. Huuu.

I was also very moved when Ga-ryung saw the ribbon and Ahn Ye Eun's song 'Red Knot' played. Wow. 'Red Knot' is like the Eorini song. It played during the earlier episodes with Eorini in it. I liked the song upon first listen so I looked for the lyric translation and I must say it really matches how the drama relayed Eorini's story. I was sobbing when Ok-ran was taken away so the twist of finding out Sanghwa is the actual Eorini blew me away.

Rebel, really. This is such a gem of a drama. Everything is spot on: the acting, the cinematography, the music. I love everything but but seriously tho, what's with the Zorro look at the last part? XD

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keiru

April 22, 2017 at 6:39 AM

I really like the first part of "Red Ties" lyric

"I've been told that people who are meant to be together
Are born into this world with a red thread connecting their hands
In order for me to find you wherever you are
I believed there was a red thread connecting our hands"

Somehow, I imagined that the writer might have came across Ahn Ye Eun's song and be like : "Oh, such a good song, let's put the lyric into my next drama plot"

After I found out the english translation, I think the lyric more fits to depict the relationship between Yeonsangun and his woman (be it Nok Soo or the other), especially this part of the song:
"You wipe away the tears from my cheeks
Yet you do not put away the sword in your other hand
Then you disappeared again

Our brilliant days shatter away
And the fragments move into the darkness from which they will never return
Let me wipe away the blood on your face

Fearful that my everything will disappear upon a touch
I wasn't able to do anything

You kiss my lips at the sound of my pain-ridden voice
Yet you do not cast your gaze upon me
Then you disappeared again"

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 7:00 AM

@keiru April 22, 2017 at 6:39 AM:

The great thing about this song is that the lyrics are applicable to several relationships.

They also remind me of Gil-dong and Gong-hwa's irretrievably lost “brilliant days” of making beautiful music together, his comforting her after hearing her life story, his second departure from her to find his sister, and their reunion in Yeonsangun's prison, as told from her point of view.

“You wipe away the tears from my cheeks...
Let me wipe away the blood on your face...
Fearful that my everything will disappear upon a touch...
You kiss my lips at the sound of my pain-ridden voice...
Then you disappeared again”

There are later lyrics that sound as if Ga-ryung is speaking about Gil-dong's leaving on missions with the Hongs and his apparent death in prison.

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20 PakalanaPikake

April 22, 2017 at 4:28 AM

Thank you for another fine recap, tineybeanie. ;-)

Ga-ryung entered the palace only to discover that the place is Bedlam, and the Royal Lunatic is running the asylum. It suddenly hit me that her storytelling is the Joseon version of One Thousand and One Nights. Although this Scheherazade's stories are guaranteed snoozefests instead of the cliffhangers of her Persian predecessor. LOL.

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21 cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 12:23 AM

Random Thoughts:

1. I find it interesting that Gil-dong's lowly status is so inconceivable (hehehe) to Yeonsangun. He literally cannot handle that someone of such a low class is besting him. He could accept it if his status was higher, but it eats at him that it's not. The reversal of the Confucian order is blowing his mind.

2. Gil-dong's dream is focused on others and outward focused, Yeonsangun's is inward and focused on himself vs Gil-dong.

3. I love the advice and thoughts the mudang has on why the peasants refuse to help Gil-dong and how the Hongvengers can convert them. It's so positive, but it also shows Yeonsangun's vested interest in oppressing them to suit his own personal needs and retain his social order.

4. Gil-hyun really has great insight into the ministers and their behaviours. He understands exactly their motives, that their position and their lives becomes more important than the people they help govern and serve in light of Yeonsan's cruelty. They also behave in exactly the way he told Gil-dong by going to Song Sabu to seek a better relationship with the king.

5. I am dyyying to know what happens when Song Sabu finds out all of Gil-hyun's secrets. It's gonna BLOW his mind. If you thought the king was keeping secrets from you...

6. I love how Gil-dong is going to crash the king's big peace party. It's like soo good. Such a burn. I also get a kick out of them using the king's own armory against him. That is some Romance of the Three Kingdoms realness right there. (The story about the grass soldiers collecting arrows for the real soldiers to shoot back at the enemy)

7. The Hongvengers training montage with each Hongvenger as a weapons mentor is awesome and hilarious. Especially Segul's whip.

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latteholic

April 23, 2017 at 3:40 PM

5. I am dyyying to know what happens when Song Sabu finds out all of Gil-hyun's secrets. It's gonna BLOW his mind. If you thought the king was keeping secrets from you...

Gil Hyun: "Hold my makgeolli. I got this"

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 7:19 AM

LOL!

I'm looking forward to Song Sabu's apoplexy with trepidation. It will be epic. I just hope that Gil-hyun is far away when the truth dawns.

Madam Jo may well give herself a stroke.

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 11:02 AM

It would be nice if they were incapacitated from the plot by way of heart attack of stroke from learning those secrets lol.

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22 cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 12:40 AM

More Random:

8. Stated this before but...Ga-ryung's narration is based on something that she can't know at this point in the story, so it must be in the future...So hopefully she lives.

9. Gil-hyun. You are so smart. You got rid of all the evidence at Grandpa Park's place for your identity theft. Now WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD would you conceal the NAME of the identity you took on the grave marker, but not the gender? Underneath Park ( 朴) is 公 which is used to delineate a male. The given name of the deceased male usually follows 公. Why not scrape out all of the text...why not scrape out all the grave markers? Seriously. (Yay Chinese knowledge. I enjoy reading the Chinese in sageuks. It's like...look mom, Chinese school was useful for something! lol)

10. I wonder what Song Sabu will do now that he knows that Yeonsangun has lied to him about Gil-dong. How will that change their dynamic and how will Song Sabu now control him?

11. OOOOH. I sense Mori may be on the edge of going to Team Hongvengers after not spilling Gil-dong's live status to Pedo Prince. You're one/two potentially rescued sisters away from getting Damian!Robin, Gil-dong!

12. It's interesting watching Sang-hwa and Ok-ran's dancing because of the way it reflects their characters. Ok-ran is very talented but has no ambition to really rise up in the ranks so it allows the freedom of her artistry to show through. Sang-hwa is looking to impress so you can almost see her thinking about every move and how it will create impact because she may not be naturally talented like Ok-ran, but she wants to rise up to be a better spy.

13. Eorini is a great spy. She used her ambition and drive to gain Nok-soo's trust and she has the observation skills and intuition to deduce to truth behind Nok-soo's words and actions.

14. Nok-soo's cruelty and need to control others to keep her position is also shown in how she summons the girl she slapped, I think, to attend to Yeonsangun with her and report on Ok-ran's punishment. It's truly horrifying and Nok-soo is behaving exactly like Yeonsan, a man she would probably say she is only with for convenience and not like at all.

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beansoverflowers

April 23, 2017 at 5:22 AM

YAY thoughts!!! I'm still on a high from this drama, and I'm so keen for tomorrow's episodes I checked on this thread to see if there were any more comments.

It really is a superhero origin story, and seeing the process is satisfying. And yes, Garyung's voice over describing the Avengers' antics makes me think she must live ............. but don't let it be one of those 'I'm writing a memoir of my late husband rip' things plz.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 8:56 AM

@22 cloveredlioness April 23, 2017 at 12:40 AM:

9) Thanks for explaining what I was supposed to be seeing in the Park family plot. I'm wondering where the family register is. That could have some nasty surprises in it.

14) Nok-soo has finally shown her true colors. Her pettiness towards Ok-ran and Ga-ryung is horrifying. This is the exact attitude and behavior that led to other parties' losing their heads. I think she's already sealed her own fate.

Nok-soo says she's thrown in her lot with Yeonsangun, but when she admits that he is incapable of loving her, I cannot believe she is truly satisfied with her arrangement. Nor when she says she chose the right man. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth. She knows Gil-dong truly cared for her. Period. End of story. And she's going to be jealous as hell at the thought that Ga-ryung is now the apple of his eye.

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 11:07 AM

She's going to be doubly jealous when she finds out that Gil-dong married Ga-ryung and I am not looking forward to what she will do when she finds out...

Nok-soo has definitely made her own bed, that's for sure. I think Nok-soo's jealousy, insecurity, lack of faith and distrust would have eventually destroyed any potential relationship with Gil-dong and I think she likes the idea of a relationship with him more than what they may have been like together. She has this very idealized view of him.

But I think you're right about the double talk. However, she has been made into this horrible monster whose only reason to be alive, to hold position is to survive and retain her lifestyle/position. She values herself above all else. Even though we know why she is this way, it doesn't make her any less horrible now.

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23 cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM

Even More Random Thoughts:

15. That Eorini switcheroo...They got me hook, line and sinker. At first I was convinced Sang-hwa was Eorini. She LOOKED like Eorini. I liked her edge, ambition, gumption and pluckiness. But then she was antagonistic to my Ga-ryung and I was like NOPE! Ok-ran it is then. So that switcheroo shocked me even though logically it HAD to be Sang-hwa.

16. I really liked Ga-ryung feeding Ok-ran. I think it's something she would have done even if she hadn't known she was Gil-dong's sister. She shows warmth to the other gisaengs and in return, they become friendly to her. In contrast to the mother who sacrifices her children, Ga-ryung really is showing herself to be the true queen type. She feeds people, even! Nok-soo feeds Gil-dong, but it's like a self-centred thing of rewarding him for having given something to her, his compassion and caring. She doesn't do something for others who haven't served her in some way. She left her kid without feeding him at the gibang.

17. I can't wait to find out what Song Sabu will use Eorini for and what her purpose is. And if she can be flipped.

18. I love how the Hongvengers dress up, do their signature poses, crash the king's big peace party and have Gil-dong call the king by his given name...It's so ridiculously OTT, but also satisfying. I know a lot of people didn't sign up for a superhero movie, but I don't even care. Gil-dong's story is basically a superhero origin anyway complete with requisite tragic backstory, discovering superpowers, using his powers for the wrong purposes, discovering responsibility/compassion, empowering/inspiring others and facing off the baddie in epic fashion. The writer has already played with so many genres, tropes and themes that I think she just couldn't resist calling to the in thing at the moment, superheroes. I mean, she's referencing current politics etc...so what about current pop culture? I think Gil-dong's arc is probably the most Spider-man like with the whole 'With great power comes great responsibility' thing. But the team and a story splattered with social/class issues is much more Batman/Batverse.

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liina

April 23, 2017 at 8:11 AM

@cloveredlioness: I don't know if I have said this before or not, but I really love your "Random Thoughts" comments! :)

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latteholic

April 23, 2017 at 2:25 PM

Yes. Love reading your random thoughts too! I want to respond more but my weekend really has been hectic. So just wanna touch on some of the points:

#15 - I feel that GaRyung represents us. Okay the purple ribbon was a dead giveaway that Eorini must have been GilDong's sister, but also she's just so sweet so it's easier for GaRyung to accept her as the Eorini. So far she only know about her from probably what GilDong told her, so she must have thought of her as the cute, sweet little sister that Gil Dong adores. And when Ok Ran said that the purple ribbon belong to Sang Hwa, it was like us going "no way, that hostile girl is Eorini??!". :D

I am very intrigued with Eorini now though. It's kinda refreshing to see how one of the supposedly good characters started out as the enemy's spy. And wait up, SHE'S ACTUALLY A SPY - and not just a spy, but a really smart one as well. I love that! Plus, this reminds me of GilHyun's trajectory as well. I can't wait to see Scholar Song's expressions when he knew that both of his "people" are actually GilDong's siblings and actually set out to ruin him --> yes I am still highly optimistic that Eorini will finally flip back to the good side.

#18 I'm with you there. I actually really dig that last scene because of the party pooper-ness angle. I know it doesn't fit with the sageuk tone, but Idc. The Mighty Child plot already brings the superheroes elements to the story. But now reading your thoughts, I am starting to compare Yeonsangun with Lex Luthor from Smallville? He started out sympathetic although we know that he'll be the big baddie in the end. He has his mommy issues, but really the one thing that turn that evil switch on is his hunger over power and control. Not to mention that he made GilDong's first love his consort but also starts to develop an obssesion with GaRyung Lane. Oh wait and GaRyung is also a writer! Ok. I'm starting to have too many DC comics random thoughts and I guess I need to stop now before I start writing a novel :D

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cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 8:07 PM

My weekend has also been pretty crazy. Anyway, thanks for pointing out the angle of both Hong siblings secretly under the nose of Song Sabu! It really is a great parallel. It would be SOOOO good for Song Sabu to be screwed over by two people he would never expect.

I've watched so many pseudo historical, Dragon Ball Z style Hong Kong action movies that the sudden change to superheroes didn't bother me.

Lol on Yeonsangun being Lex Luthor. I've never really watched Smallville, but it seems like Ga-ryung is a much more liked character than Lana lol.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 8:37 AM

@latteholic April 23, 2017 at 2:25 PM

GaRyung Lane! ROFLMAO!!

Yes, you've got an acute case of comicbook-itis! I like your SMALLVILLE reference to LEX LUTHOR, too.

Does that make Gil-dong the Joseon Clark Kent -- minus phone booth?! Gil-hyun is literally the clark/clerk/scribe/scholar in the family, but what the heck.

Eorini as spy reminds me of

Ga-ryung's boring Yeonsangun to sleep reminds me of Seolnan's undercover activities in THE KING'S DAUGHTER. In her dealings with the insomniac, paranoid king of Gaya (played to a T by Kim Young-jae), Seolnan tells stories of her childhood. She reminds him of his late sister, and uses that as a springboard to relates to him as a human being with the intention of helping him remember his care and concern for his subjects. It was the exact opposite of what Nok-soo is doing to Yeonsangun.

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 11:09 AM

Nok-soo and Yeonsangun really bring out the WORST qualities in each other. Nok-soo brings out that conflated view of himself Yeonsangun has and enables his worse behaviours, while Yeonsangun brings out the pettiness, jealousy and vengefulness in Nok-soo.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 3:29 PM

To continue the SMALLVILLE metaphor, Nok-soo and Yeonsangun are each other's Red Kryptonite. ;-)

24 delurked

April 23, 2017 at 3:33 AM

Comment was deleted

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25 liina

April 23, 2017 at 10:52 AM

What I really loved about this episode was the new found unity between Gil-dong and Gil-hyun. Firstly we now have more inside into Gil-dong's thoughts. Since we now can see, that the writer obviously knows how to lay thought processes of characters open, I agree with whomever in one of the last recap's comments said, that the writer is deliberately keeping as distanced from Gil-dong. Especially since now, when he is not imitating his father and just being himself, Gil-dong/Yoon Kyun-sang is acting more natural. I'd like to know, if it is easier to connect to him now? I can't tell, because personally I never felt a real disconnection.

Secondly because I liked the whole splitting of Gil-dong's character in two personae. Even though Gil-hyun is storywise Gil-dong's brother, he is characterwise half of Gil-dong's book persona. Gil-dong is the more spirituell part, Gil-hyun is the more intellectual part. It doesn't somehow surprise that Gil-dong is loosing himself when he is loosing his brother and he is finding himself after he is finding his brother. It's like the yin and yang in chinese character development (sadly my knowledge in that area is as good as nonexistent. If anybody knows more about that, it would be nice if he or she could help out!). If I did understand it right, you loose yourself/downspiral when the yin and yang aren't connecting anymore and you only can develop when the yin and yang are connected.

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latteholic

April 23, 2017 at 2:28 PM

I love your interpretation of GilDong and GilHyun's relationship. The Ying and Yang comparisons is great. I also don't have much knowledge on that area but what you said makes a lot of sense!

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cloveredlioness

April 23, 2017 at 8:18 PM

I love your thoughts on Gil-hyun kinda being the psychological other half of Gil-dong and how losing that also caused him to be so much colder. I too, never felt a disconnect from Gil-dong, but I think it was because I knew it stemmed from losing so many people he loved...like he didn't become full on cold until he finally lost his father too. But Gil-dong is definitely more expressive now than in his latter gangster phase. Because there's definitely a difference in his demeanor after Amogae dies and probably until he marries Ga-ryung and realizes Eorini is alive. Then, he's much more open to everyone and Ga-ryung.

Yin and yang are the cosmic balance of oppositional forces. Man and woman, day and night, light and dark, sun and moon, hot and cold etc. These are some of the traditional oppositional things. You need to be balanced in these aspects to be healthy/fulfilled and create harmony.

In the drama, an example of yin-yang would be that painting of the mountains/river/sky behind Yeonsangun in his room. It's a traditional depiction of Korean cosmology/metaphor of the divine order/the country. The king is the sun, the queen is the moon. And then he's over top of the land.

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26 Pei

April 23, 2017 at 8:04 PM

not really surprising when the show finally reveal who is our Uhrini.
What surprising is how Uhrini brainwashed to become Geoin and help Sugwidan, but she's so young when get seperated from her brother.. so I guess we'll get to know why in the next episode.

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27 cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 12:00 AM

I just remembered something! Yeonsangun mentions the fear that peasants have that it has recently hailed and ruined their crops because the peasants will start to complain that the hail is a sign of his wrongdoings for being brutal or hunting etc. This is a clear sign of Yeonsangun losing the mandate of heaven and his right to rule within the mandate of heaven idea. You have the divine right to rule as long as you serve the people. When you don't, the heavens will send signs in (odd) natural disasters such as famine, hail, solar/lunar eclipses, snow in July etc. So Yeonsangun seeks the backing of his ministers as a way to legitimize his mandate of heaven. They're all yes men so it doesn't mean much either.

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kiara

April 24, 2017 at 3:47 AM

Spot on. Historically, natural disasters are often associated with the king being unworthy.
King Taejong almost step down after a series of natural disasters towards the end of his reign.

I wouldn't be surprise if the ministers would take the blame for Yeonsan's incompetence with the mandate of heaven. They'd do anything to save their neck at this point even bow down to Scholar Song whom they ignored and looked down on in the past.

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 3:32 PM

Send in the plague of locusts, tsunami, and pestilence!

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28 liina

April 24, 2017 at 6:15 AM

Ah, I wanted to write this since some episodes ago, but I always forget. Some beanies were asking themselves why Ga-ryung didn't went to the music department of the palace. I think it is because Ga-ryung was only the servant girl. She wasn't a gisaeng and her knowledge of singing and dancing was self taught, she wasn't educated in both of them. At that time - when Gong-hwa joined the palace - the music department took only a number of girls in that were educated in singing, dancing and playing instruments. She wouldn't have had a chance to join the music department and I don't think the gisaengs were allowed to take their servant girls with them. Since Wolhamae seemed to be the owner of Danjung palace the other gisaengs that didn't join palace music departments and the servants moved on to find another working place.

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM

Ahh okay. And after being forced out of work, Ga-ryung decides to take a risk, to not find other work and follow Gil-dong. A girl has to do what a girl's gotta do to get her orabeoni lol.

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29 cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM

Omg, guys! So awhile back there were pics of Chae Soo-bin in the recording studio with Ahn Ye-eun and I think this is the result...She recorded a version of the song that plays while Gil-ryung first got together! It's like the production staff are all shippers lol. It's OST 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuQwZzqIp8I

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PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 3:40 PM

@29 cloveredlioness April 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM:

Thanks so much for posting this link! It is so lovely. CSB has such a nice, cute voice. Very soothing. I like the slower tempo and solo piano accompaniment. Daebak!

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latteholic

April 25, 2017 at 5:00 AM

@pakalanapikake, she does have a really cute and soothing voice just like when she sang that lullaby.

@cloveredlioness thanks! You can say that again. I think the production staffs are all Gil-ryung shippers because they JUST have to make this new Gil-ryung MV. I still don't know how I feel about the TROT song though! XD
http://tv.naver.com/v/1630086

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cloveredlioness

April 25, 2017 at 1:12 PM

I know I would sing that song at karaoke just for all the Gil-ryung moments they managed to put in from the beginning until their wedding. I mean, I always thought they were adorable...but seeing an MV of just Gil-ryung moments make me see they are adorable to infinity.

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30 PakalanaPikake

April 24, 2017 at 4:15 PM

I suddenly recalled a scene during Amogae's salad days in Ikhwari that got me thinking about Who-Ri-Ni. In it, Ilchung conducts a shell game.

Is this a hint to keep our eyes on the ball (or a certain kid sister) to see if, when, and how a switch-o change-o occurs?

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cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 5:03 PM

You know, I would not be surprised if we got one more switch. I just liked Ok-ran's immediate bond with Ga-ryung.

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31 cloveredlioness

April 24, 2017 at 10:40 PM

Another thought just remembered. I totally thought that the Hongvengers saved the babies from being killed during their escape because of the smoke they used during their "Rooftop Party" and ensuing chaos.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 12:45 AM

Duh! Same modus operandi. Of course. I sometimes forget to watch for later confirmation. Thanks for the reminder. ;-)

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cloveredlioness

April 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM

...I think my comment was fairly transparent...hehehe.

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32 liina

April 25, 2017 at 12:28 AM

The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Short Version, retold by Liina - Part 1 Birth - Varieties from old text versions are set in ().

Once upon a time (During King Sejong's reign) there lived a Minister in Joseon, whom's family name was Hong. He had a wife, a concubine named Cho-nan (Cho-nang) and a little son named In-hyung (Gil-hyun). One day the minister fell asleep at daytime and dreamed that he give birth to a flying dragon [which symbols the birth of a person that will achieve great things. He went into his wife's chambers and wanted to have sex with her, but she didn't want to in the daytime. The minister was very angry. Just then a young servant girl, Choon-seom, came in front of his eyes and because she was pretty he seduced her. Later he felled shameful and sorry to the girl and wanted to compensate her, so she could live a free life, but Choon-seom said, since the minister was her first man, she considers him her husband and stayed. The minister was deeply moved by Choon-seom's sentiment and so he made her a concubine.

Some time later Choon-seom gave bith to a son and the minister called him Gil-dong.

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33 liina

April 25, 2017 at 12:42 AM

The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Part 2 Growing Up

Gil-dong was a strong, healthy, beautiful and clever young boy and was loved by his family. But he was not allowed to call his father "father" and his brother "brother", which saddened him deeply. Adding to his grieve was the fact, that even though human were the greatest creations of the heavens, he wasn't allowed to contribute to anything due to his status and therefore he didn't feel like a human being at all.

One evening Gil-dong under tears told Minister Hong about his grieve. But Minister Hong only scolded him and told him that Gil-dong woudn't be the only Yangban son of low status and the other ones would carry their lot without making such a fuss. So Gil-dong should accept his fate as well. But back in his chambers the Minister cried as well.

Gil-dong went back to his own chambers, but he couldn't find any peace. One day, he went to his mother, Choon-seom, and told her he wanted to leave home and go into the mountains and learn the Tao and become like Jang Gil-san (wanted to leave because he could neither become a general or a minister of war anyway; liina: Jang Gil-san is only mentioned in some versions; if the author really was Heo Gyun the mentioning of Jang Gil-san would have been added later. Jang Gil-san was a street performer in the late 17th century who rose to become a wealthy merchant and later led a rebellion against the king - Jang Gil-san is heavily interwoven in our drama).

But even before Gil-dong could set his plans in motion it was already thwarted by the doings of his father's concubine.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 12:53 AM

@33 liina April 25, 2017 at 12:42 AM:

Thanks, liina! I'm enjoying your retellings very much.

Gil-dong went back to his own chambers, but he couldn't find any peace. One day, he went to his mother, Choon-seom, and told her he wanted to leave home and go into the mountains and learn the Tao and become like Jang Gil-san (wanted to leave because he could neither become a general or a minister of war anyway

This part reminds me a lot of the back story of Eun-Oh in ARANG AND THE MAGISTRATE.

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liina

April 25, 2017 at 1:39 AM

Hihi, the Story of Hong Gil-dong is a rich source for fusion sageuks! :)

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34 liina

April 25, 2017 at 1:34 AM

The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Part 3 - Danger comes to the house

The minister's concubine Cho-nan was a beautiful woman of dark nature. She was jealous of Gil-dong, because she couldn't have children herself and she was afraid that because of the minister's love for Gil-dong, he would favour Gil-dong's mom. So she thought of a way to get rid of Gil-dong. With the help of a shaman she hired a physiognomist. The physiognomist came to Gil-dong's house and lied to the minister, that she had seen his son's face and it would be one of a great lord and leader. Then she asked if Gil-dong would be his first son. The minister stated that Gil-dong was the son of his concubine. So the shaman lied: "Aigoo, because of his low status, the talents that the heaven's granted your son will lead to the death of your family and the downfall of your clan. It's better for you to kill him!"

But the minister loved Gil-dong too much, so he didn't have the heart to kill him. Instead he confined him in a mountain hut and ordered his servants to watch Gil-dong 24/7. The minister was so grieved and worried that he fell ill.

But that wasn't enough for Cho-nan. She used the fear and the feeling of responsibility for the family and for their husband (father) that the minister's wife (and In-hyung) had and convinced them to kill Gil-dong behind the minister's back. So an assassin was hired.

In the meantime (11 year old) Gil-dong had studied a number of taoistic and confucian books (was taught by a mountain sage - was confined at home), so when the assassin (named Teuk-chae) came for him Gil-dong called upon the powers of the heaven and the and the assassin engaged in a supernatural battle. During the battle Gil-dong warned the assassin once and gave him a chance to go away, but the assassin didn't heed his advice and in his anger Gil-dong slew the assassin. Then still angry he went to the physiognomist and killer her as well. He also wanted to kill Cho-nan, but when he got there, he remembered his dad and how dear Cho-nan was to his dad and so he let her live.

After that, Gil-dong started to regret the killings and he also felt, that after that after he had commited these deeds and he didn't want to be the source of further trouble and he also was angry, because his own family had tried to kill him, he couldn't stay in his father's house any longer. He went to his dad, told him he wanted to leave because some people had conspired against him and told his father good bye. to say good bye. The minister allowed him to call him father and his brother brother from now on and gave Gil-dong his blessings. The Gil-dong said farewell to his mom and left.

The next morning the minister found the body of the assassin and the physiognomist and after some investigation learned to know everything that had happened to Gil-dong. He was very angry, threw Cho-nan out and hid the bodies and covered up Gil-dong's crime.

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liina

April 25, 2017 at 1:43 AM

Oops, I'm sorry, I don't know what happened to that one paragraph. It doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. The reasons Gil-dong left the house were:

- He was angry at his family for having tried to kill him

- He had committed a crime

- He didn't want to be the source of further trouble, conspiracies

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liina

April 25, 2017 at 2:06 AM

I have to stop here, because soon my son will come home from kindergarten and then I can't concentrate anymore. Further chapters will follow in probably 10 hours or tomorrow morning (middle european time). The chapters that are still missing, would be "Gil-dong and the robber", "Gil-dong's confrontation with the King" (dramawise we are between here and the two next chapters at the moment), "Gil-dong at Che-do", "Gil-dong in Yul-do", "Gil-dong withdraws from the world". - By the way, I have seen the next episode yesterday and I feel a little bit relieved now. I was really afraid for the drama when Gil-dong ended that episode with: "Let's go punish the King". I was asking myself why Gil-dong had suddenly become The Punisher again, when he has just before found out, he was Spiderman. But everything is fine now.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 3:46 AM

Thanks again, liina.

Real life calls. ;-)

I'll be tuned in at the "same Bat time, same Bat channel" for the remaining installments.

I watched the raw yesterday, and after rewatching episode 24 as a refresher, will not see the ep. 25 subtitles. Things are looking up.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 3:48 AM

Will NOW watch the ep. 25 subs. Why would I skip them at a time like this? Sheesh.

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cloveredlioness

April 25, 2017 at 1:26 PM

Thanks for the summary liina! It's great to know what the original story is like and how it pertains to how the writer adapted that element and combined it with history and current events to create the story we have now. I'm also glad Gil-dong is no longer the Punisher.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 3:42 AM

Thanks, liina! This is the Beanie DIY "Cliff Notes" version. I love it! ;-)

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latteholic

April 25, 2017 at 4:31 AM

Thanks @liina!! :)

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35 PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 3:37 AM

More musings:

1) Those cheesy Zorro masks form infinity signs around the eyes. Unlimited vision? Unlimited thoughts? Infinite compassion? Free (unconstrained) will?

2) As the smoke clears at the end of the party crashing, there needs to be a big banner in the main courtyard that proclaims “All your base are belong to us.”

3) I've mulled it over, and have concluded that the “big root” is indeed that of the pine tree that Mudang blessed for Gil-dong. It's the only thing that makes sense when dealing with the supernatural. And because of the powers of the Mountain Spirit, the cave is protected. Even so, the Hongs also follow the mundane world's standard operating procedures and train sentries.

4) Yeonsangun as graphologist = Joseon CSI. Watching the king, I'm having flashbacks to my Palmer Method writing classes in grammar school. ;-)

5) A band of experienced Hong fighters who got left behind are brought into the fold in a joyous reunion that foreshadows another in Hanyang. Their presence relieves the pressure on the untrained and inexperienced refugees. The added manpower enables HGD to proceed with plans for the jailbreak. The Hong Brothers set to training those who will stay behind and guard the base.

Ga-ryung and Wolhamae are no longer the only storytellers in this tale. All the Hongs inspire and encourage the refugees with their first-person accounts of derring-do, each from a different perspective that addresses the concerns of their particular group of listeners. Yonggae, who was the first to notice the undercurrent of dread in the cave, speaks of his initial fear of going up against Choongwongoon and how he ran away. But the Big Boss has never let him down, and they have won many battles. Soboori addresses the courageous ahjummas, who are worried about finances and economic survival. He relates how HGD made a killing during the alcohol ban, and that he is a good businessman. Former magistrate Eom tells the women caring for babies how he and the Big Boss vanquished their enemies back in the day. He addresses their concerns about safety and protection.

6) Nok-soo is pissed at Ga-ryung for being favored by the King. I distinctly remember her telling Shorty when she first arrived that the decision as to who is favored rests with Yeonsangun. How convenient of her to forget that. Her and greed for power and jealousy over maintaining it will prevent her from crying the tears that were what differentiated her from a monster, according to HGD.

7) Ga-ryung may think she has the gumption to kill Yeonsangun, but Amogae's words to HGD about how killing changes a man are in the back of my mind. I wonder if she overheard one of those talks with Dad. Or maybe Gil-dong spoke about it with her. I truly cannot see her becoming a murderer. It is not in her nature, unless it were for defense of a child. When she learns that Orabeoni is alive, the point will be moot.

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liina

April 25, 2017 at 10:30 AM

Haha, Joseon CSI
That reminds me of something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRD6EWSK2m0
The cases were a little bit... - but Ryu Seung-ryeong, Kim Mu-yeol, Ahn Nae-sang... Let's just say: it was nice to watch... ;)

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 8:08 PM

@liina April 25, 2017 at 10:30 AM:

Thanks for that clip of CHOSUN POLICE. It's been on my to-watch list for a long time. Great music. I agree about the cast. A couple of my favorites are in there. ;-)

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cloveredlioness

April 25, 2017 at 1:48 PM

1. Interesting. Because it did seem kinda arbitrary to all of a sudden give them domino masks which feel very western/more modern. Or they like the band, Infinite (closet Inspirits!). Your base will now 'Be Mine!' Hehehe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeuejYoRbps

3. I could see that tree being the pine tree blessed by the mudang. Pine trees are really important in Asian culture because of what they represent. You'll very rarely find a pine tree that wasn't changed/affected by humans to adopt a...for lack of a better term...bonsai-ish groomed appearance. (The fluffy areas represent clouds.) Pine trees have a spiritual meaning/aspect to them. This is because the trees always stay green/don't lose their leaves/needles. So they represent longevity, virtue and strength. These trees are also known to endure much harshness. Some of the oldest trees that you find in Asia tend to be pine trees too.

5. Nice catch on how each of the Hongvengers were sent out to deal with specific issues that each group had in regards to their needs and concerns that has also been unique to each of them.

6. It is really interesting to see Nok-soo's descent. She's really lost that spark that made her human and sympathetic and in its place is the monster she used to be afraid of. It seems she has fully embraced the monster instead of seeking to become someone better than that.

7. I can't see her really killing Yeonsangun either, because I think she knows that there will be a cost not only to herself, but everyone else in the palace that she has come to care about, like Ok-ran. Like, I'm pretty sure if she kills the king and they figure out it was a gisaeng, all the other gisaengs will be in danger...and all the servants too.

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PakalanaPikake

April 25, 2017 at 9:30 PM

@cloveredlioness April 25, 2017 at 1:48 PM:

LOL re: Infinite MV. I'm clueless about Kpop, so miss all kinds of references. ;-)

3) You reminded me of a visit to Colorado long ago to visit friends who lived in the boonies. They pointed out a bristlecone pine on an exposed ridge that was ancient. I've forgotten how old. I think the oldest in Colorado dated back to a couple of hundred years BCE. Now that I think about it, it was the tree line. It was gnarled and twisted, more a shrub than a tree -- but tenaciously alive and green despite the harsh climate and wind.

My biggest impediment to believing the cave was beneath the Ikhwari tree was that it seemed too close to Hanyang. Then again, my sense of distance in this show is totally skewed.

7) Ga-ryung is the one who prompted Gil-dong to have compassion and understanding for the downtrodden. There are times when she's telling her stories that I think I see glimmers of compassion for Yeonsangun (as a suffering, sleep-deprived fellow human) -- or when Shorty asks her to tell a heartwarming tale. Maybe I'm misconstruing her reaction to Shorty's caring for the small child he remembers. But if anyone could empathize with the king, it would be Ga-ryung.

You're absolutely right about the drawbacks. If she assassinates the king, or her attempt is discovered, many others will be killed along with her. I don't think she considered that when she first swore vengeance. But now that she personally knows the people at court, and after witnessing the palace blood bath from a ringside seat, she has strong grounds to reconsider.

In contrast, Nok-soo has always seen the king as a means to an end. She has never loved him, although she did have some capacity to love Gil-dong. If Nok-soo had been willing and able to love the king, there may have been hope for him as a human being, despite his horrible childhood.

Nok-soo is lying when she says she's glad she moved on from Gil-dong. She knows exactly what she lost, and regrets it. But if she had waited for him, he would have been diverted from his destiny. And he would have been deprived of years of Ga-ryung's sustained (and sustaining) high-octane love. Remaining with Nok-soo would not only have squandered his Mighty Child powers, it would have ultimately ruined him -- and broken his heart.

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