Hi Snickers?

You want to add the Vulcan salute to your moniker?

We're having fun on the Yong Pal Ep 11 thread, but it's a lot of work!!! LOL.

Mmmmmm tacos!!

That's OK, Susan ?? I'm interspersing visits to various DB threads and seeing to home stuff. It's the only way to go since not everyone can respond when I'm free.

There's also 20 Again and its recap added to the mix to split my attention 5 ways!!! :D

Instead of yet another ambiguous obligatory happy ending, a dance off between King, Scholar and Gwi. Changmin, an idol, must dance well. LJK apparently can dance pretty well too. Lee Soo Hyuk, a model, probably can't. Thus, Gwi loses. The winners celebrate. The End!

The actress actor who played Teacher

I enjoyed the mythology and strong, powerful female characters of The Legend.

It's also very modern. Other than everyone swearing loyalty and willingly subjugating themselves to the King, there is no "You are girl so you can't..." attitude.

Pickpocket Adjusshi (Healer) was also in The Lengend as a general purpose paddler who hung out with Teacher.

Yup, I just added my comment to yours on 20 Again. Such a pleasant watch, no real frustration.

I've not gone back to read the YP thread. I'm not sure I want to devote the time LOL!

LOLZ

You sounded so frustrated teh other day! You know, I started that game mostly for your enjoyment. Partially to educate them.

It's not really a game. It's how we analyze material. You should hear our exec creative meetings - 2 creatives, 2 producers - and how we discuss everything about characters, motivation, plot. The lead creative is great with beautifully characters you can easily visualize - but she's lousy with plotting and tying everything together. The transmedia producer is great with finding the holes in the story. The art director has great way of seeing ideas - totally different than anyone else on the project. I'm really good at strategy and tying the small pieces into a coherent bigger whole. So, it falls on me to add an overlay structure to the plot concept and ask for more from the characters.

Once that happens, the other producer and I start looking at all the research that needs to happen to make everything believable. The creatives start thinking about how to solve the holes with various characters and scenarios. And then, because we work in new media, we all excitedly come up with a bunch of new ideas for extensions and audience engagement.

We hire writers for write for the various platforms. They always add more to the story. You can think of a story as many many layers. And, we have many other people who create visual concepts, live events, apps, games, research, marketing, collaborations, etc etc etc.

In short, we start with a good foundation of story and character and an understanding of how these tie into every other element, and we go from there.

It's an endless process - but it doesn't actually start with just a writer. It's a collaborative endeavor. Writers don't like to follow rules. (Okay, some do, but it is rare.) So, the producer needs to be actively involved - making sure everything the writer needs is provided to her/him and making sure that the structure of the narrative stays true to the overall story bible and needs of the project. It's a fine balance between letting the magic happen - writers are amazing creatures - and keeping everything on track. It's very very hard! But, by the time you have so many people working on something together, it isn't possible to make radical changes without big big problems....

Because I am fascinated by the psychology of people, I copied over the long conversations of our YP superfans and broke it down for myself to see what they are actually saying. I added my own interjections to state some thoughts.

They have been explaining the criticsims away ad naseum and are tired. Why do they feel the need to explain away criticism? Why must people give up on criticizing to suit them? The premise is that their way of thinking is right and the criticizers are wrong. "Wrong" cannot be tolerated.

They mention that dissenters want to irritate those who like the show.... Why do they take it personally? A comment is a comment and has nothing to do with who likes it or not. In effect they are saying, because they like it and think they have explained away everything, dissenters must now agree with them and keep quiet. Where does this thinking come from? Do we teach this in schools???

They feel double standards that some shows are not criticised but their beloved show is nit-picked upon. - It's all in the choice of words. Nit-picking to them is thoughtful discussion on flaws for others. Even if there are nits to pick, it does not follow that the nit-picker does not like the show. JB herself is a case in point.

They complain that dissenters won't be silenced because their taste or opinions are different. However dissension was based on objective criteria and not taste. And being silenced works both ways or else there is a double standard here too. Likers can speak, dissenters cannot. What about the open-minded view that each point of view has something of value to learn from?

They speak of good ratings being an objective justification for liking the show. They seem to need objective justification for liking a show? Again, why? Just like it and be happy and let others point out flaws and be happy too.

Again they say how they would keep quiet if they did not like something.... The lack of understanding in what commenting on a site meant to discuss dramas, is evident. It is not meant to only say nice things.

They take it personally that dissension is out to make them feel bad for liking a show. Why feel bad? No one can make us feel something if we choose not to. Does this show a lack of confidence in what they like that they have to justify it to such an extent and cannot enjoy it if others disagree?

They say others find satisfaction at continuing to talk about the flaws instead of being silent. This is the thing, they are not silent about liking it and that's how they find satisfaction. So they have transferred their method of gaining satisfaction to dissenters.

None so blind as those who will not see! LOL! Fascinating.

Business idea, unless this already exists: Professionally produced christening/baptism.

There are professionally produced weddings, more than what wedding planners do. With all the divorces and remarriages, such production seems pointless and wasteful to this pessimist/realist. However, one is only born then baptized once. Okay, sometimes a person converts or something, then gets baptized again.

I'm sure I recognize ?, for the most part. I just ignore it. There are always "better" things to do. My mind choose this because it needs a break from all the worthwhile non-crappy stuff ?

:-) If you enjoy shows, that's the most important bit. Knowing what someone else thinks is good or bad isn't. You should trust your own judgement. Frankly, I think it's pretty good!

Never heard of it. Just checked and the lead actor is on my NO list. For the record, I've queued a few but haven't felt any urge to watch.

Really?? It's very good! I've watched it 2 or 3 times. Can you get Netflix? The subs were good there.

Congratulations! Next step is to find a bunch of Koreans to befriend and practise speaking with them. :)

It's funny. For a couple of years in high school, I hung out with Korean English as Second Language students. They spoke Korean with one another almost all the time. I was never curious about the language. Guess I was too busy learning everything else.

Now, I just want to know how to properly distinguish between formal and informal speech, and whether there is such difference in writing.

Hi Susan, yes, I read it.

I did my own analysis of the comments of the YP super fan commenters LOL! out of interest for myself. You can see it in 207.2 above. :)

Thanks Snickers?

Yes, I can get it from Dramafire and the subs are 100x better. :)

I'm watching it for 'homework' (I claim disingenuously ;) )

Ok I managed to finally watch The Thieves and I can see that it is good.

I notice @Susan that several of the movies you've recommended are high action ones.

6.2.3.2.8 Susan ?? September 14th, 2015 at 6:20 AM

“So it’s not a plot hole. It is a plot hole if the drama is not showing anything, but it does show something. And for reference I believe that you’ve already read all the scenes that I listed in my previous comments where they did “manage the secrecy of the rest of the staff through a multiplicity of other mechanisms and methods”. You should even give the drama a credit since it’s doing the more difficult route, why insists for the drama to do the easy way?”

Nooooo! :-)

Seriously you’ve made a big effort to explain away a HUGE plot hole. But it’s there. It didn’t disappear.

My point is that people don’t act like that in real life. Do you go to your job / study in school and do it differently every single time? No, you develop a system that works for you and apply it over and over again. That’s how humans work. That’s why the simplicity principle applies extremely well here.

And, “You should even give the drama a credit since it’s doing the more difficult route, why insists for the drama to do the easy way?” I’m going to accept your logic fully – that when the a drama goes a more difficult route that it should lauded and equally, when a drama is lazy and does something easy, it should be condemned.

So – huge condemnation for YP for taking the lazy easy route!! :-)

It’s much easier to not bother to make a drama with consistency of character and plot and make the audience fill in the plot holes. By being lazy about not addressing secrecy in a manner that is consistent with human nature and not providing an explanation, YP has taken the easy way out. What a shame! It would have been nice if they addressed these plot holes.

OMG - she's nuts!!!! :-)

I responded..... amusingly - it's on teh thread for comment 13.

You know, it's rare, but I'm feeling that it's because they are this way, I am going to continue to just comment on any old thing on the threads. I'm feel like doing the opposite of stay away. I imagine it is a tactic to keep unliked commenters from being on the thread with them. I don't want to engage them. However it's a pity that they are mis-using their intelligence and writing skills and they think they are being great and having fun, at others' expense.

Should I thank them for clearing that up? :-D

LOL! I liked her words to him. Sound halmonie advice.

It's from burning palm forests, right?

To be honest I had stopped reading.

And, as you can see below... Javabeans has jumped in to ask us to stop engaging with them. She's right, of course.

Btw - thanks for your recommendations for older dramas earlier. I've been watching little bits of several of them to see if one catches my eye.

Absolutely.

Is it okay that we have a relatively private discussion on this dead thread (which no one over at the Yong Pal recaps seems to know about - so there isn't any flame fanning) or would you like us to just give all discussions YP a wide berth? :-) I think we're pretty exhausted by it frankly....

I can tell you what I like (which I've no time to consume now)

Genre and topics of interest to me: puzzles/mysteries, romance which can be rom-coms or just roms and just coms, crime/detection, sci-fi, fantasy, psychology, human interest stories, some classics

Books: Elizabeth George, Isaac Asimov, JK Rowling, Tolkien, Jane Austen, Emily Bronte, Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy, CS Lewis .... prefer British authors for whodunits, Sir AC Doyle and even modern works with Sherlock Holmes in it, Ellis Peters, Elizabeth Peters, PD James, Agatha Christie,.... PG Wodehouse, ...

Movies/TV : I can't name all the shows but they would be in the same genre as the books. All those action films that I named from your list before, all made from the books of Tolkien, Rowling, Lewis. All Star Wars, whole Raiders of the Lost Ark franchise. Among the romances I recall the old ones: While You Were Sleeping, When Harry Met Sally. I particularly liked The Lake House.

More later....

Ha! It's definitely NOT the kind of show you should sit through 30 hours of! :-) I watched it briefly - skimming the beginning to get to the adult bit. JCW was delightful for about 3 or 4 episodes, then seemed to realize he was in a soap opera and just went with uninspired acting. JJH stayed stronger through it - he hadn't yet thrown the towel when I suspended the punishment game.

JJH strikes me as a very good actor with either very poor taste in dramas or a very poor management team.

Chef looks very much alike the man who married his ex. Because she and her new hubby do not have social media accounts anymore, he couldn't mess with them that way. He took it out on Chef. I think the "lesson" is it's very easy and tempting to be mean and vicious online to innocent people.

History is ok as long as it's not all about political intrigue. The historical elements of The Legend are very interesting. Some of my ancestors might be from that region.

Sageuks tend to be "cleaner." I can easily handle watching violence. Well choreographed fight scenes are always welcome. There are few "high school" sagueks with teenagers and irritating teenage angst. Also, contemporary dramas/movies can be more explicit in adult situations than I prefer.

New fall TV season in the U.S. will start in a week or so. Not planning to watch any new series. Sticking with Supernatural, The Simpsons, and Shark Tank. If I can get local PBS signal, maybe a few BBC miniseries. Haven't decided to start Doctor Who again. Didn't like the direction of the show with the 11th Doctor.

:-) I'm lucky if I remember them through my scene!

Factoids? I suppose it depends on how close it is to a person's knowledge base. Successful actors are very smart ( no matter what the public thinks) - but not always educated outside the arts. So, a factoid may seem like gibberish to some actors.

Oh, yes! The more value an actor brings (butts in seats), the more say they have in how their image is portrayed.

That's an awful lot of blockbusters... remind me to explain the economics of studios, distribution and blockbusters some time.... did your husband choose those films? Did you choose them together? Did you go alone? Did you go with your kids? Did you see them in the theater? On DVD? On paid cable channel? On a paid internet channel?

Do you like green eggs and ham?

Would you like them here or there?
Would you like them in a house?
Would you like them with a mouse?
Would you eat them in a box?
Would you eat them with a fox?
Would you? Could you? in a car?
Eat them! Eat them!
Here they are.
You may like them.
You will see.
You may like the in a tree
A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you on a train?
Say!
In the dark?
Here in the dark!
Would you, could you, in the dark?

Would you, could you, in the rain?
Could you, would you, with a goat?
Would you, could you, on a boat?

You do not like them.
SO you say.
Try them! Try them!
And you may.
Try them and you may I say.

:-)

LOL! I am watching it now and have exactly the same feeling - it's mostly tell and very little show.

Kim Tae Hee is stinking as an actress. Sorry, but that's the truth. Frankly, the entire cast is underutilized.

I have a lot to say on the poor directing and really bad editing... but I'm super busy right now.

:-) Can I do this later?

I'm working on IP protection, corporate structuring, and a pitch to someone we'd like as a project mentor. Always good to have advisers and mentors no matter how big a project gets. I'm kinda excited while working on it - you'd be floored if you knew who it is.

Anyway, I need my wits about me today....

Do you know when I write the most here? When I'm editing the writers' work. That process always makes me want to watch other peoples' stories and think about what works and what doesn't.

For example: the visual storytelling in YP was quite high in the first 6 episodes, changed tone utterly for episodes 7 - 9, and then kind of wound down through episodes 10 -12 until it became virtually non-existent in episodes 13. Why? I've read multiple accounts about what chaos, unhappiness and arguing reigns on that set... maybe all this fighting is the reason for such an uneven drama.

Aack! I have to stop. I need to go back to work...

There's more than one storyteller in a drama: the writer, the director AND the editor have a hand in that. You could have an amazing script, but a cr*p director can still make a hash of it. Remember, the director doesn't just yell out 'Go', 'Stop' (okay - they never yell that out :-)) - they actually plan for all the scenes. Every visual. That's visual storytelling. Then there's the edit and after effects like sound - that captures the audio AND visual storytelling. If those suck, it might as well be a book.

"... [T]he show has all the ingredients to make a very good drama, but just seems to be weak in the storytelling department. What’s strange is that I think the writing is good enough, I have no complaints there, it’s just that the story that the script tells is so shaky."

I can't believe you've sucked me into commenting rather than working. Although I did just finish a document... Cue triumphal music.

I think that Lollypip is saying that the story premise wasn't good. I would guess that this isn't true. If the writing is good, then the original story premise was probably great. But maybe the ratings weren't strong or something (I don't know) and the suits started asking for new directions to the show.

I know I read here that the show changed directions quite early on. So, if the writing's good, that's to the writer's credit. However, it's pretty d*mn hard to come up with a completely new coherent concept that's super well thought out and organized well with a concept for every week and then write at lightning speed. Not enough time.

Planning a script takes weeks or months - not a weekend after the distributors or producers ask for an overhaul. Any quick overhaul of the script concept and story plotting is likely to have holes or lack of impact.