Javabeans has up an interview with a PD. I felt bad for her - I think she was super excited to get the interview, but didn't have good equipment. I'm tempted to mail her a lavalier mic.

Reposting from 98.3.2.1.2 Growingbeautifully August 25th, 2015 at 6:26 PM to start fresh, in case there's anything more to say about this.

Hi @Snickers and Susan

I’m just trying to iron out the points here:

1) I come to a show wanting funny-cute then after a few episodes it turns makjang. I can choose to watch makjang but I may not choose to watch it in the show that I wanted funny-cute. (Susan’s steak and ice-cream analogy). People may leave but no new viewers are gained since we’re in the middle of the series.

2) I watch a show that starts out good and which suits my funny-cute preference. It changes to good makjang. The show becomes different from what I expected but I like the good makjang it has become, so I stick with it (@Snickers quality over quantity analogy).

What is being posited: There are many reasons for a drop in viewership but over time and taken across many instances, the likelihood that the change in writing affected viewership of shows is greater than any other reason.

In a drama collaboration, most of what the production teams decide and do seem to hinge on what is written. It seems to me from reading comments all over so this is not at all the results of a controlled experiment…

Very good writing plagued with bad direction, acting, music still gives a show an acceptable story to follow. People who came in accepting the lousy direction, acting etc will continue for the story.

Writing which was A and became B, whether the quality of B is good or bad, even with good direction, acting etc is more likely to lose some people who came in for A. I read that people say they loved the actors but even they could not save the show for them.

I presume there must have been properly run surveys by now on why people watch or drop shows? Do these bear out any of the points here?

Oooh... just read Lollypip's comments on 'Mrs Cop' Ep 7 and guess what, she's saying exactly what we've been discussing about the change in the show, but is accepting it. At first glance at the stills, I noticed immediately that for a show called Mrs Cop, she appeared in very few of the stills... so strange... then I read just the comments and saw this.

"I don’t know what happened to the show that we were supposed to be watching about an experienced female cop who tries unsuccessfully to balance her work and her family life, but I’m giving up on that premise for now. ... I suppose it’s possible that the writer saw the initial response to the story and decided to try something new, but it’s strange to think you’re watching a show about a cop who’s an absent mother, when her family life is barely even mentioned. So rather than continue to complain about it, I’m just going to accept it.

At this point we’ve spent so much time in the last few episodes focusing on Do-young and her development as a detective, I’m just going to treat her as the real lead of this drama for now. For some reason the writers have taken a left turn and Mrs. Cop is an entirely different show now than it was when it started. Not that I’m really complaining, believe it or not, because I actually like what we’re being given now. ... So if the show is going to make this more about Do-young and her education in learning to be a god detective — well okay, count me in. It’s not the show I expected, but it’s still a fun and entertaining drama."

So what would you do? If you're like me, (I'm not watching this show though) and I was watching it, I might continue watching while grumbling. Unless like Lollypip, I liked the change in focus. How about you?

Sorry for being a little MIA.... I'm ill and swamped. :-) This too shall pass....

dramafever posted a "best guess" of how much 11 popular kdrama actresses make per episode

http://www.dramafever.com/news/how-much-do-these-11-popular-k-drama-actresses-make-per-episode/

Interesting because I don't think the cast of Friends pulled in Friends-like money per episode for any of their post-Friends project.

Kim Tae Hee gets paid $33,400USD per episode for playing a coma patient? Is she awake now?

I had a good laugh reading the SWWTN 15 comment section. The mob ruler with the flaming torch and pitchfork (over my discussion of writing issues) has just declared herself the show's "harshest critic". LOL

I might have to pop in over there and post the ratings... I mean... the thread only has 57 measly comments.... and I'm bored... and... okay... let's face it - I want to gloat! :-D The show is a hot mess and even the recapper is pretty much throwing her hands in the air over the non-sensical plot that is the new writer's doing. And the ratings are keeping pace with the devolution into plot confusion. They should have left it alone. The ratings weren't all that bad in 8+% range. Now they're down in the 6s.

I'm watching Cheo Yong Season 1 and noticed that more than once, the episodes start with a cold open or even a continuation, introducing something strange that requires follow-up.... but it does not get followed up.

I find that annoying. Why show it if that episode is not going to address it.... or are we supposed to watch to the end of the series in the hopes of getting the resolution.

Even more annoying... the start showed something ghostly that actually did not happen (false advertising) because in the end it was an accident and had nothing to do with a ghost. Why do shows do that? Human error? Bad editing? Just playing with the poor viewer's patience?

Oh dear, poor LollyPip on the Mrs Cop Ep 8 thread.... I feel for her. I'd be soooo upset.

"And the problem with giving us too many random details, for too long, is that without some solid connections and motivations you’re in danger of losing your audience. ... If there’s one thing ... that absolutely maddens me, it’s the tendency to introduce new people without any context or explanation and expect the audience to know what’s going on.
... And at this point, halfway through the drama, I’d much rather just be told who people are exactly, ... than to be eight episodes in and still wondering what major characters’ names even are. ..."

This is terrible. Her comments were filled with questions. Being inscrutable for too long is really being mean to the viewer who comes for a story. It reminds me of the silly green ping-pong ball story that is just out to annoy. I'd put this lack of clarity in a show 8 episodes in, on a rating lower than The Time I Loved You that made such a loooonng big issue of Won's secret that turned out to be inane. I'm so annoyed on LollyPip's behalf LOL!

@Snickers

From somewhere way above...

"Not everything that is written gets shot or eventually makes it to the screen, right? I’ve heard writers complaining about this too. Who actually pick what stays and goes?"

In this order: The producer. The director. The editor. The producer.

The producer is the head honcho/a. While the set belongs to the director, a pre-shoot meeting with the producer can affect direction.

Next, the director makes the call on what gets shot. If the it isn't shot, it isn't making the edit.

Even if it is shot, the editor might make it go bye bye.

If it doesn't make the edit, the producer won't worry about cutting it out. The opposite could happen though - imagine a product placement was paid for by a sponsor and it didn't get shot or got edited out - well then everything works in rewind...... and it gets shot afterward and inserted. Btw - coming back and shooting later = expensive. This should always be avoided if at all possible.

Where teh heck did this post? Am posting it again...

The penny just dropped!

I just realized why the entire comment section of SWWTN 15 and 16 was so out of character for DB - it's been completely conquered by Lee Jun Ki fans. The entire thing reads like an apologia. The seem to have their own sort of internal logic - ratings don't matter, critics don't matter, critics are wrong, everything touches LJK is amazing </em?!

@snickers I didn't comment on the ratings this time - and they are still commenting on my post 2 episodes ago! So much for being ignored. It's still on and on about how shows with low ratings are actually super successful if their fans love them!

I love this logic. Hey, my shoe business has almost no sales, but it's a huge success because the few people who do buy shoes really love them!

One more time, eh? The formatting was wonky...

The penny just dropped!

I just realized why the entire comment section of SWWTN 15 and 16 was so out of character for DB - it's been completely conquered by Lee Jun Ki fans. The entire thing reads like an apologia. The seem to have their own sort of internal logic - ratings don't matter, critics don't matter, critics are wrong, everything touches LJK is amazing !

@snickers I didn't comment on the ratings this time - and they are still commenting on my post 2 episodes ago! So much for being ignored. It's still on and on about how shows with low ratings are actually super successful if their fans love them!

I love this logic. Hey, my shoe business has almost no sales, but it's a huge success because the few people who do buy shoes really love them!

What I noticed was that it was the same few people and they knew each other. Out of interest there were about 28 references to ratings LOL!

I thought that they were generally discussing ratings without actually mentioning that you first mentioned it 2 episodes ago. But maybe they remembered that it was pointed out to them correctly and it still rankles. ?

Dear me.... Yong Pal... 1 episode plus of nothing much. Where's the action? Where's the progress in the plot or how about more planning on what should happen next. We seem to be privy to many long, long conversations. But one conversation that is conspicuous by its absence is one between TH and his sister. Surely if he can move around, he should have gone to see her.

In IRY, with the way scenes followed on each other and built upon what was shown before, I felt confident that the producer had a clear idea of where everything was heading and that he was leading us there appropriately. With Yong Pal, I feel the opposite.

It's good that the people and hints he introduced did not get left by the wayside (yet) but to what purpose is showing us that the police are still after Yong Pal and had to give up or that the hospital staff are impressed with TH's popularity despite themselves? The editing is still strange and now there seems to be little editing when a lot more could help. But I'm wondering if they've run out of story to show us ? and this is just filler while they scramble to come up with the next few plot points. ?

Hey folks! I just saw this link on the Yong Pal thread and it's what we've been talking about ... live shoots and the quality of shows.

http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/03/the-perils-of-the-live-shoot-drama-system/

How to break this cycle? It's killing for all those involved and it still does not guarantee viewer satisfaction. What a sad state of affairs.

Thus we sit here as arm chair critics and shake our heads. Yong Pal is obviously in live shoots and showing the strain. The slowdown must be buying them a bit of time.

I beleive producers/channels are eventually moving away from the live shoot system. Some shows like descendants of the sun are supposed to be 100% pre produced and others like last had 8 episodes already written at the time of the shoot. I read this in an article perhaps on soompi or kpop herald(dont really remember where i read it, otherwise i would have posted the link). So there is a high chance that in the future most kdramas would be pre produced because the cast & crew seems to be pretty comfortable working that way.
I think there should be no issue in shows being pre produced in the mystery/thriller/action genre becuase they usually dont have any second leads. The audiences' reaction can only cause problems when there are second leads and people end up making their own OTP which may be not be in accordance to what the writer has writer so I guess the problem can only arise in rom coms mostly. Otherwise they should seriously consider live shoots.

Btw just a random question. What do you guys think about BOF? I have recently read some not so good remarks about it here on DB and seems like many people dont like it here. I would actually like to know why. The acting was just mediocre, I agree but I didnt find the story that bad, though its been many years since ive seen it and at that time shows for me used to be just for entertainment. I am just intrigued if you like/dislike it what are your reasons? I guess it was also my first kdrama so ill always be a little partial for no reason.

@GB

I see you're also taking a beating on the YP 7 comment section. It's weird. Your comments we cogent and on point. The replies demonstrated obtuseness. I'm wondering if DB has picked up a coterie of teenagers.

What I learned from today's OT:

"hate-watching" and "rename the show that disappoints you"

hate-watching vs spite-watching?

Hello Dear Folks,
I'm going to try and get as much commenting in as a possible before I prepare my 'work' and head on out. Knowing me, I'll probably do more commenting than preparing.

Susan, some time back you were asking about the shows we thought were the worst... our OT commenters have listed more shows in OT #410 in response to my Comment 8, in case you have not visited there yet. :) Fun to see what others have hated. I was hoping to see something I liked in that list... maybe just 1 show qualified. It's interesting to read why others hated a show I liked. :)

New thread!

:-) If you had to recommend that absolute best Kdramas, Jdramas, Tdramas, and Cdramas of all time, what would they be? And, of course, why? Please limit to 10.

From above:

"

@Susan… Yong Pal strategy???

It’s like “Here we’ve got good ratings, it’s going swimmingly, we got the action out, we’ve let loose all our characters, ok now… let’s surprise everyone by taking it all back. And then we’ll see if the ratings stay the same” You mean this kind of strategy? … LOL! Super risky. As you say, it’s hard to get back viewers and it’s Episode 7-8, pretty late to be changing strategy.

1) If it is deliberate it’s the false calm before the storm. Another set up before throwing more camp and weird at us or hopefully some plot from where it left off.

2) If it is not deliberate, then something happened to their main writer and Junior is asked to hold the fort

or my fave

3) The live shoot kicked in too soon, they’re all exhausted and needed a couple of episodes to rest. They hope that giving us sweet scenes of people getting on and approving the romance would do the trick to tide them over. :)"

So, I actually did wonder if maybe the head writer had appendicitis or something... something where they had a BIG problem..... and as you say Junior had to take over. Only nobody trusted Junior to do much... so they played with bed scenes and music.... and the world's longest non-dinner party....

Also from above....

"I’ve read comments about bad or weird editing:

Cutting too much. Cutting too little. Cutting and piecing together in wrong places. Things rearranged in ways that differed from what the writer had intended.

How much can a piece of great writing be reshaped/rearranged after shooting by producers, directors and editors while still maintaining its integrity? I ask because I’ve also read comments that “the source material was so good that the movie/show just made itself.” "

The writer constructs the verbal portion of the story. The director constructs the visual portion of the story. So, in some sense, there's no such thing as ignoring the writer's vision. The writer's concept is interpreted by the director, who takes this base and adds a visual concept to the storytelling, by the actors who create missing backstories for teh characters, and by the editor who creates a coherent line of moving images and dialogue for the audience to follow and understand all of these visions coming together.

Films and shows and theatre productions are all group efforts. All of teh little pieces and parts reflect a myriad of people's visions about the overall concept.

Great writing... great in terms of prose? Great in terms of plot? Great in terms of character growth? Or great bc it lays out a solid script that is easy for everyone to work with and make a good product (Healer)?

Shakespeare is great writing. But it can make for some gd awful movies. Other than Kenneth Brannaugh, have you ever seen a director take the original language and make a film you absolutely loved? Mostly we like films based on Shakespeare that are modern interpretations. The writing is much less 'great' but better for a solid script that ends up being a good product.

None of the writing in Healer was brilliant. What is was is well-crafted. As was the directing, sets, costumes, acting, music, cinematography, etc etc etc. Some producer on that show was smart enough to put together a lot of incredibly competent people who work well as a team. That's why it was popular. Bc it was pleasant and solidly crafted. It's also why some people didn't like it - it didn't 'swing for the fences' - there was no particularly amazing anything about it - no breathtaking fight scene, no startling clever lines, no romantic scene that made you weak in the knees.... People who want 'go big or go home' never got big with Healer. And so they didn't understand teh hype. People who want a solid piece of enjoyable drama without any glaring problems - they loved Healer.

This is totally not related to your discussions guys but can you please recommend me a good rom-com or maybe a light refreshing movie? Something like one suuny day(though it was a rom com). I dont know I need to watch sth light and funny after a little heavy on heart drama( this happened to me only after king 2 hearts and now i remember you ). A drama or web drama suggestion would be appreciated too but i dont have enough spare time to complete it.