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Jealousy Incarnate: Episode 19

The tables turn multiple times, as we finally reach some moments of clarity in our complicated relationship triangle. Na-ri unravels her feelings, and her precipitated instincts guide her decision between the two guys in her life. It’s painful and rewarding, watching Na-ri navigate herself out of her head and learn to trust her heart.

 
EPISODE 19 RECAP

Outside the glass office, Na-ri witnesses Hye-won kissing Hwa-shin and drops her bag in shock. When Hwa-shin pulls away, Hye-won criticizes him for depicting her as the poor girl with no backbone harboring a one-sided crush on him. Hwa-shin harshly responds that his depiction of her to his mother is factual.

Na-ri interrupts their conversation to talk to Hwa-shin alone, but Hye-won refuses to leave. Hye-won asks Hwa-shin if he’s dating Na-ri, and he curtly clarifies that they’re over. The tense face-off is interrupted by PD Oh, who acquiesces when Hwa-shin strongly requests that he leave his own office.

Arms crossed, Na-ri uses the case in point to prove her argument that Hwa-shin is untrustworthy. Within the hour he left, he’s already kissing another woman. He asks if she’s qualified to condemn him, reminding Na-ri that she claimed herself unqualified to berate Jung-won’s encounter with Soo-jung. Why should she care who he kisses?

Then a realization dawns upon him, and his suspicion grows as Na-ri demands that he take off his glasses. She reminds him not to wear those glasses in front of other women, and especially not kiss another woman while wearing those glasses. Hwa-shin takes off his glasses in disbelief and wonders, “Surely, not…”

Hwa-shin drags Na-ri to the roof and clarifies that he and Hye-won are just colleagues. Na-ri doesn’t believe him and rapid-fire interrogates him about his relationship with Hye-won. Hwa-shin finally gets a clue and asks if Na-ri is jealous right now. She denies it, but Hwa-shin has already caught onto her jealousy for him. Hwa-shin grins at this realization and asks why she cares about his relationships but not Jung-won’s.

Thinking back to his 51/49 pleas, Hwa-shin suspects that Na-ri likes him more than Jung-won because she’s only showing jealousy for him. He knows the exact feeling of jealousy she’s experiencing, and he riles her in his growing excitement: “You’re jealous, right now. You are jealous. Acknowledge it.” Na-ri doesn’t explicitly acknowledge it but orders him not to wear his glasses in front of other women or kiss other women. That sounds like an acknowledgment to me, and Hwa-shin knows it.

Hwa-shin laughs out loud and yells from the roof about this new revelation: “Pyo Na-ri loves me more more more more! No wait, actually, she only loves me! She’s only jealous of me!” He breaks out into dance, but Na-ri continues to worry about Hwa-shin’s relationship with Hye-won. She desperately asks for solace that the kiss was simply out of rage, but Hwa-shin drops his smile and responds, “Perhaps.”

As Hwa-shin heads back to the office, summoned by PD Oh, Na-ri wonders if he’s going back for Hye-won. He’s thoroughly amused by Na-ri’s insistence to go home together and reminds her that he left. Smiling widely, he tells her not to wait on him. Oh boy, you are milking this.

Sitting together on the broadcast stage, Sung-sook accuses Ja-young of stealing her husband and daughter. She says that no one loves her, but Ja-young claims that their ex-husband loved Sung-sook more. He would constantly compare her to Sung-sook and even admitted that he regretted divorcing her. Delighted by the “compliments,” Sung-sook snuggles next to Ja-young, who seems to enjoy their momance.

PD Oh rattles on about the upcoming election coverage while Hwa-shin and Hye-won stare each other down. They respond as if they’re listening to him lecture them about ratings and promise to get the job done. Once they’re alone, Hye-won asks Hwa-shin how it felt to be the 101st man she’s kissed. He responds that her strong façade won’t repair her pride but admits that the kiss wasn’t bad, since he learned something from it.

Hwa-shin finds Na-ri waiting for him, and they continue their conversation inside another office. He prompts her to acknowledge her jealousy, but Na-ri claims that she’s angry — not jealous — because she can’t understand him kissing another woman within the hour of leaving her. He reminds her that she basically did the same thing between him and Jung-won, to which Na-ri shamefully hangs her head.

Na-ri apologetically mentions the dinner from earlier, and Hwa-shins erupts in anger. He explains that he left the house determined to give up after seeing her with Jung-won and Madam Kim at the restaurant. Na-ri cautiously asks if this is their end, and Hwa-shin vaguely responds that it depends on Na-ri’s actions. She asks again if he’s going to date Hye-won, and he leaves her hanging to fuel the fire of jealousy. Meanwhile, Jung-won walks into an empty house and looks over Na-ri’s calendar, which has his name written on all the days that month.

Hwa-shin returns to the dorm and hesitantly asks Dong-gi what the difference is between jealousy and anger. Dong-gi asks him a hilarious series of questions: Woman or man? Woman. Woman or girlfriend? Girlfriend. Girlfriend or lover? Lover. Lover or wife? Wife. Hwa-shin takes back the last statement since doesn’t have a wife (ha!), and Dong-gi continues to not answer his question by asking Hwa-shin what he did wrong.

Dong-gi then explains how the election story made its rounds to other anchors before landing on Hwa-shin and asks if he’s angry or jealous about this. Dong-gi tries to isolate Hwa-shin’s current emotion to distinguish between anger and jealousy, but Hwa-shin feels a mix of both, which only complicates his thoughts.

Na-ri steps into the elevator with Hye-won, and she asks Hye-won if this was her first kiss with Hwa-shin. Hye-won says that it was their first kiss in PD Oh’s office and irritates Na-ri by saying that the rest is up to Na-ri’s imagination. Na-ri won’t take that as an answer and asks for the facts. They both know how imagination can eat away at their souls and drive them crazy, right? Hye-won tells her that Hwa-shin admitted the kiss wasn’t bad, and that only spirals Na-ri into more jealousy.

Hwa-shin tries to call Na-ri, but he’s intercepted by PD Oh and Announcer Uhm preparing a birthday cake. They drag Hwa-shin into Sung-sook’s birthday celebration, and he reluctantly sings the birthday song upon request. The cake becomes the birthday cake for Announcer Uhm and PD Oh who have relatively close birthdays, and soon enough, everyone is making wishes with the cake. Ha!

Announcer Uhm and Ja-young both wish for marriage; PD Oh wishes to live with his family; Sung-sook announces her wish for Pal-gang to abandon the two mothers equally; and Hwa-shin wishes that you (Na-ri) won’t stay at the house without him. Altogether, they blow out the candles of the cake.

Na-ri arrives at the share-house but sits in her car, conflicted on what to do. Jung-won finds her outside, and she explains that she can’t enter the house anymore because Hwa-shin left. Jung-won understands the conflict but tries to coax her back into the house for now.

Jung-won calls Hwa-shin to confirm that he won’t return to the house. Hwa-shin asks if Na-ri returned to the house and bursts out in anger when Jung-won confirms that she did. Jung-won clarifies that the departure from the house means that Hwa-shin is giving up on Na-ri. Jung-won says that unlike Hwa-shin, he won’t give up easily and intends on marrying Na-ri.

Hwa-shin hangs up and tries to contain his frustration. Meanwhile, Na-ri stares at the “Jung-won” calendar in her room and reflects in disbelief. She takes out her suitcase to pack her things.

It’s raining outside, and Na-ri sits with Jung-won at the dinner table. After a brief moment of hesitation, she admits that she was jealous earlier when she saw Hwa-shin with another woman. She kept a log on her calendar of who she wanted to live with every day, and though Jung-won was written all over it, she only felt jealous with Hwa-shin. “This is really strange, but I think this is the answer. Jealousy comes from love. My heart must be for Hwa-shin. I’m sorry.”

Jung-won looks crushed and tries to justify that jealousy isn’t love. He reminds her of the comfort, warmth, and reliability she felt with him. He asks if he’s boring — if he’s bland because he doesn’t cause trouble — and Na-ri tearfully shakes her head no. Jung-won argues that those feelings with him are also love, but Na-ri isn’t convinced. She admits, “But I just want to be by Hwa-shin’s side.” Jung-won asks if she really likes Hwa-shin more, and Na-ri nods. Oof, she’s shattering his heart.

Unable to accept Na-ri’s decision, Jung-won asserts that she needs him. Her feelings for him may have ended, but that’s not the case for him. He’s not willing to give up and claims that his sincerity will go longer than Hwa-shin’s jealousy. Na-ri apologizes again and leaves the house.

As Na-ri begins to drive away, Jung-won stops the car in the rain and desperately pleads that Hwa-shin only started liking Na-ri because Jung-won did. Without Jung-won, Hwa-shin’s feelings will soon disappear, he claims. Jung-won also predicts that their relationship will be over in three months, since Hwa-shin has never maintained a relationship for longer. Jung-won begs her not to leave, but Na-ri feels compelled by jealousy to follow her heart. She apologizes and drives off, leaving Jung-won stranded in the rain.

Na-ri climbs the stairs back to her rooftop home and breaks down in apologetic tears. But in the following days, she doesn’t show any signs of sympathy when she sees Jung-won waiting in front of her building. She announces that she likes Hwa-shin and tells Jung-won not to come again.

After the weekend, Hwa-shin receives a message from Jung-won with updates that Na-ri left the house and broke up with him. But Jung-won also warns Hwa-shin to stay out of his way in his attempt to get Na-ri back. Hwa-shin reads the message just as Na-ri greets him in the dorm, but she’s swiftly kicked out so he can change.

Madam Kim wonders why Jung-won was out of contact all weekend, but he doesn’t comment on it. She asks what Na-ri thought of him, to which Jung-won has no response. Awkward.

Na-ri buys tea for Hwa-shin, and she updates him about leaving the house and breaking up with Jung-won. He’s getting a different message from Jung-won, but Na-ri insists that it’s her heart that matters. Hwa-shin doesn’t completely believe her heart anymore, but it’s a mutual feeling now. Na-ri asks if he’s going to date Hye-won, and he’s offended that she still can’t trust him.

Na-ri follows Hwa-shin into the elevator, and she calls herself stupid and pathetic for liking Hwa-shin, which unintentionally insults Hwa-shin. She trails after him and asks if he’s going to break up with her. He responds with a vague “Later,” but we see his smirk as he walks away from her.

Hwa-shin visits a drunk Jung-won, who’s blasting some strange dubstep coping music in his house. He quietly mutters an apology, but Jung-won unexpectedly tells him to date Na-ri. Then, he assures Hwa-shin that Na-ri will return to him soon anyway.

Still in denial, drunk Jung-won calls out for Na-ri in front of her building. She comes down to him and tells him to stop visiting, so that she can stop feeling guilty. He asks if Hwa-shin is staying at his rooftop home, and Na-ri responds that Hwa-shin is staying at the overnight dorms at the station due to the election broadcast. Jung-won shakes his head and claims that Hwa-shin is married to his work — doesn’t Na-ri want to actually get married?

Jung-won warns her that Hwa-shin won’t go all the way to marriage, but Na-ri isn’t interested in what he has to say. He promises to be back, and as he’s driven away by Secretary Cha, Na-ri expresses her final lingering feelings: “I liked you. Thank you.”

Hwa-shin and Hye-won busily prepare the election coverage, and Na-ri keeps a close eye on the pair as impeccable Hwa-shin coaches Hye-won through her nerves. They go out for sandwiches, and Na-ri joins them. She exchanges one half of her sandwich with Hwa-shin and tries to make small talk about the dragging election.

Hwa-shin cues Hye-won to leave, which gives him some alone time with Na-ri. She claims that Announcer Park is giving her a hard time but quickly takes back her lie. She admits that she just wants some attention and concern from Hwa-shin, but he’s not that easy.

That night, Na-ri stares at Hwa-shin’s house from her patio and expectantly approaches the railing when his lights switch on. She looks around and first finds Hwa-shin’s mother, who recognizes her as Jung-won’s girlfriend. Hwa-shin joins his mother, and she asks when Na-ri’s getting married to Jung-won. No one bothers to correct her, and Hwa-shin remains oddly neutral towards Na-ri.

During breakfast at the restaurant, Chef asks the mothers how they’ve decided to proceed. Ja-young tells Sung-sook that her wish won’t come true and snatches the newspaper out of her hands when Sung-sook tries to ignore her. Then, Ja-young asks Chef to date her, and Sung-sook berates her for her greed. She’s going to take Pal-gang and Chef? They’re both sharpening their knives to fight for Chef, which both flatters and frightens him.

A complaint is taking Hye-won and Soo-jung out of the running for the election coverage, since both announcers have powerful families backing opposing candidates. For the objectivity of the news, they need another announcer to take Hye-won’s place, and PD Oh gives Hwa-shin the choice between Na-ri and Jin (the catty announcer from a previous episode). He’s not happy about it, since he’s just established a rhythm with Hye-won.

As Hwa-shin awaits the broadcast, Secretary Cha arrives with an outfit delivery from Jung-won. Hwa-shin remembers Jung-won’s promise to continue giving as he’s always done for his friend. He sheepishly asks how Jung-won is doing and accepts the outfit.

Hwa-shin arrives at the news desk, where Na-ri is waiting for him. She thanks him for choosing her, but he’s not pleased at all. He pessimistically breaks to her to she won’t meet the expectations of the live election broadcast because she’s still green, but Na-ri isn’t discouraged. She says that she’s quite possibly a better partner than Hye-won.

Hwa-shin warns her about the slew of numbers that she must accurately report, and before he can finish his sentence, she’s already practicing her lines from the teleprompter. She delivers her lines with ease and accuracy, and Hwa-shin looks slightly impressed. But he smells the alcohol on her, and Na-ri admits that she drank a little soju to calm her nerves and loosen her tongue. He orders her to brush her teeth, and she obediently leaves to do so.

Hwa-shin receives a call from Hye-won, who’s drinking to cope with her unfair disqualification from the election coverage. She asks for encouragement, and Hwa-shin agrees to meet her. Na-ri follows him to suggest a meal together, but he leaves because he already has plans.

Na-ri spots Hwa-shin with Hye-won at the pojangmacha outside the station, and she sneakily sits at the table right behind Hwa-shin to eavesdrop on their conversation. Hye-won asks Hwa-shin if Na-ri is as good as she is, and he nods that she’s getting there. Na-ri tries scooting back as close as possible to hear their conversation, bumping into Hwa-shin in the process.

Then, Hye-won asks Hwa-shin if he feels the same with her before and after their kiss. Na-ri doesn’t want to hear the answer, so she takes her bottle of soju and leaves. As Na-ri walks away, Hwa-shin responds that he feels no different, and Hye-won finds his response cold. Hwa-shin explains that Na-ri is having a hard time because she broke up with his friend (is that what you think?), and Hye-won drunkenly wishes for his broadcast with Na-ri to tank.

Na-ri enters the weathercaster room and spins around with her soju, feeling at home. She checks the locker room and smiles when she sees her locker still labeled with her name. She continues to chug her soju bottle in the ladies’ overnight dorm but begins to search for food when her stomach growls for food. She finds a cup ramyun hidden in the crevice between the bed and nightstand, and she looks delighted to have discovered its existence.

Na-ri brings the ramyun to the guys’ overnight dorm to share with Hwa-shin, since he likes ramyun. Hwa-shin notices her drunken state and seems concerned that she hasn’t eaten. He refuses the ramyun, so Na-ri doesn’t want to eat it either.

In almost exact imitation of Hwa-shin’s drunken confession, Na-ri says, “I’ll do everything. Date me, please. Please.” Hwa-shin looks down and doesn’t respond, and Na-ri demands to know why he’s so cold, even after she’s broken up with his friend. Hwa-shin says that he giving it more time, since she broke up with his best friend. More importantly, she broke up with a good guy because of him.

Na-ri asks, then, if he was just waiting, and he nods. Na-ri tears up in realization and bursts into tears. Hwa-shin laughs as she wails and kicks about on the bed, and he gets up to sit by her. He looks at her lovingly and asks, “Na-ri-sshi, will you please date me now?” Na-ri laughs through her tears. He asks again, “Please please please, let’s date now.”

Hwa-shin wraps Na-ri’s hands around his neck, and he wipes away her tears. The, he leans down and kisses her. They happily kiss the night away, with the uneaten ramyun at their side.

 
COMMENTS

I love the thought and attention that goes into small seemingly insignificant details in the show, both tangible and intangible. The kiss and the ramyun were carefully tied together to show the emotional progression between Na-ri and Hwa-shin, and I think that elevates our understanding of the relationship. Though the build-up to this moment was a bit roundabout, the ending scene feels earned and deserved because of the symbolism of that cup ramyun: rediscovering something that was hidden but always there. It shows how purposeful the writers and directors are with building this story and relationship, which makes me love this show even more with each new discovery in the details.

I’m happy to report that the romance and the momance lives on, with Sung-sook and Ja-young hopelessly attached and invested in each other’s lives. We’re lucky that Dad’s will assigned Ja-young as Pal-gang’s guardian because Sung-sook isn’t one to let one note determine her fate, whereas Ja-young is more the type to let dread consume her. There’s a nice balance between the two mothers, and if they could stop being so hostile with their rivalry, they could be the power mother couple for Pal-gang. We already know that’s what Pal-gang wants, but Sung-sook’s wish for mutual suffering is going for the complete opposite. I’m preparing my slow clap for when Sung-sook and Ja-young realize that they can both fulfill their role as mothers without being mutually exclusive.

Oh my, there is so much to digest from the break-up conversation with Jung-won and his response. I loved the brutal painful honesty that Na-ri finally recognized and articulated, and I initially felt SO BAD for Jung-won. Even though Na-ri denied it, he is quite boring and bland as a character in comparison to Hwa-shin. Without the context of Hwa-shin, he actually may have been a reliable top candidate for Na-ri. For a moment, I wondered if Jung-won would be the obvious choice because of his reliability and comfort. I wondered if Na-ri was making a mistake by choosing the erratic and egotistical Hwa-shin over this sweet boy. But then, words started coming out of his mouth. I just needed him to stop talking and start crying miserably so that he wouldn’t say any more stupid things, but he just kept talking.

As soon as Na-ri confessed her honest feelings about him, he suddenly spoke with a super demeaning tone. His instinctive response to her rejection was to become an ass and mansplain that she needed him, that she just didn’t realize how much she needed him. Noooo, that’s a big bright neon blinking red flag. I’m not going to pretend that Hwa-shin didn’t do this either, but it’s so pitiful and pathetic when you can’t own up to blatant honesty. Even after some time to recover, Jung-won continued to pester Na-ri and Hwa-shin with his projections of their future. It was messy and almost unforgivable, but it was real. Relationship endings aren’t the cleanest things to watch.

Hwa-shin’s got a gift in making people go mad, and I’m not sure if that character flaw is just being used to mask the inconsistencies in his character. I couldn’t really tell why he was being so distant with Na-ri after she basically confessed to wanting a monogamous relationship with him. Initially, it seemed like he was just playing with her — almost reverting back to the Hwa-shin who mistreated crushing Na-ri for three years. But then, he justified his cold distance to him feeling bad for Jung-won? That confuses me and frustrates me, and surely, it irritates the hell out of Na-ri.

Nevertheless, I’m happy and relieved with the relatively guilt-free and mutual kiss between these two because I didn’t think we would get there so soon. But I’m already worried about the rest of this drama. What’s it going to do with the remaining episodes? Let the second leads dig themselves a deeper hole of despair? Dating shenanigans between Hwa-shin and Na-ri? Tie up the loose ends tighter and tighter? I have no idea what’s to come now, but as long as we’re promised plenty of hilarious and lovable shenanigans between these two, I’m not complaining.

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JJS in those glasses.......swoooooon

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I know right? What is up with him in those glasses?! Why is it so great?

You know what? I don't need to know. I'm just going to go look at it some more. ^^

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mmmmm, I dunno. I'm still feeling pretty slighted on Jung Won's behalf *gives NaRi and HS some side eye*

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yea, me too. And HS holding out b/c of BFF JW was just weird. it kind of shattered a character illusion I had about their motivation and authenticity. wish the show had handled it better.

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And even watching NaRi act so pathetic didn't stop him. Even though that was the exact thing she had told him she was worried about. He expected her to just have faith in him even though he's been treating her fairly terribly on occassion even during his pursuit of her. I actually hated most of this episode and actually wondered if Jung Won was right until the cup o' ramen.

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So many conflicting emotions! I feel so bad for Jung-won :-( Does anyone know the name of the song that plays at end of episode when Hwa-shin and Na-ri finally agree to start dating?

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Hmm it should be Will You/ Would you come to me by Brother Su

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Thanks for responding, but there was a song right before the one you mentioned which was playing when Na-ri was crying in the dorm room.

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Hwa Shin busting up ballet moves on the roof top. BEST. THING. I'VE. EVER. SEEN.

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I grin like an idiot when I see Hwashin uncontrollably happy. His unadulterated, genuine excitement rubs off on me . :)

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Bahahaha! My second favorite part of the episode. The way he jubilantly twirls and shouts how much Na Ri loves him is soooooooo perfectly obnoxiously yet so lovably him!

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And like a true performer, I like that his twirling stayed right on the helipad's outer white line. The OCD person in me swooned at that. And glasses on are a lovely look!

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SHALLOWLY, HOW GREAT ARE HWA SHIN AND NA RI'S KISSES?

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RIGHT?? I wish all Kdrama kisses were THIS AWESOME! Not good for my weak heart though. But will still replay. ?☺ *Happily, unabashedly joins you in all the shallowness* ?

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Is it just me or does GHJ still do a bit of fake-kissing. I super adore her as an actress but she is always a little inhibited in intimate scenes and they are usually shot in a way that make one suspect the director accommodates her inhibition.

Nothing per se wrong with that, eventually it's how the kiss comes across. But if you do have a scene of the sort in my opinion it eventually comes across better when an actress is not holding back - thinking of Yoon Eun-hye, Shin Min-a, Park Bo-young etc. for e.g.

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PS: JJS is good at it though:)

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That's the thing about JJS - While kissing he makes the women he is with, look good too. If I remember right, Park Bo Young's first onscreen kiss was with JJS in Oh my Ghost. Despite her lack of experience, they nailed it. May be these actresses are super comfortable working with him. And he seems to guide them well.

Whatever they are doing on screen with those lips, mama sure is loving every second of it!

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Yes he has the right balance of passion and courtesy required in rom-coms for intimate scenes

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Right? Even his kiss scenes with IU would have been super awkward had it been a lesser experienced actor. But he made it work so well.

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I know what you mean, but I think she's been able to let go of that a lot (or at least a little) more during this drama!

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Partly due to JJS I think but yes a little! If I remember correctly in one of her interviews she said she was closest to her IOTL character (in so far as it is possible to be close to a fictional cheater). That drama was probably about as uninhibited as she ever got.

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ugh autocorrect. character not cheater.

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Looks like your autocorrect is on Team Jung-won...

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@mary, lol!

Autocorrect "betrayal" given I dislike the word cheater - unless it has to do with exams:)

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ha ha.. @mary!

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YES!! Honestly I can't count the number of k-dramas ruined by boring, barely lip-grazing, emotionless kisses. If that's the extent of skinship they're gonna show, then at least make them good. Thankfully the kisses in this drama are hot!

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Yup! I don't usually replay kiss scenes in shows because they're either a really good make out but not really romantic or really romantic but like dead fish kissing.

In this case it was just really natural and cute and romantic and I love JJS and all his scenes with his female costars because he really nails it.

I have to say, JJS is also the only actor that I do feel adds new facial expressions to characters that wouldn't have gone with other characters he's played. Which really helps to dissociate his with his previous roles. Like how he plays HS is so very different from Chef in OMG or even robotic soldier boy from K2H!

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Don't remind me of K2H my heart still aches~(Sad face)~..

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Yup, right there with you on K2H. ?

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GOD, they are the best kisses I've ever seen in Kdrama! When JJS laid it down in that locker room in EP 14 and blew my poor ovaries out (may they RIP), I realized just how much I've been missing out! Please Kdrama land, lets see more knockout kisses like this in the future.

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Lol! Whose ovaries whaaat?? Hahah

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The imagery. PWAHAHAHA, best ever! I love it!

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Old habits die hard, Na-ri is back to square one again. I cringed when seeing her behaving so comfortably and naturally in that stalker role when she threw all her pride out of the window by obsessively fussing over Hwa-Shin again. For over three years, she has been so accustomed to it that subconsciously, this has become her comfort zone such that she would rather resume this role, than be treated like a princess by Jung-won, never mind that Hwa-shin was giving her the cold shoulder again like before.

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disappointed with her character too. I thought she would have learned something and that her taste has matured.

maybe I'm just too old to understand the romantic side of Nr-Hw's push and pull.

or maybe because I married a "boring" friend like jungwon, who is dependable and practical, doesn't get angry at me no matter what mess I do, never picks a fight with me cause he thinks fighting is a waste of time, who believes that I can do well in things I want to try, doesn't intentionally play with my feelings, and who stays consistent with his loyalty. the guy is so trustworthy that he's never given me any reason to be jealous in our 20so years together.

ladies, it's okay to date a bad boy who fires up your passion, but marry someone who will forever keep your heart warm.

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Your marriage sounds great @tb_a..
Uri NR has made her mind though. Afterall, wish the bad boy a worth catch. :-)

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it has it's ups and downs ;) but mostly because I'm the troublemaker lol
yes, I'm OK with whatever choice she makes but I wish the writer was fair to everyone.
also, since the show is very hwashin-centric, they should have given him a chance to become a better person Earlier. or they could have given jungwon flaws that nari noticed and took note of. but realizing love because of jealousy? I'm as perplexed as Jw haha
like I said, maybe I'm just too old(and boring) :)

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This show is all about Jealousy, I remember a scene from the very initial episodes in which Pal Gang says that she would choose the person who's more jealous out of the two guys as it proves that he loves her more than the other one. Its similar with NR too.

For me tho, jealousy is a negative emotion which should be avoided as much as possible.

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That conversation of JW with NR that he is more warm and caring is what got me. This show has been pretty realistic in its portrayal of characters overall but when it comes to choosing the right guy it had to go the kdrama way by chossing the bad boy in the end.

Not that I wanted NR to choose JW because I was always team HS but I wanted HS to become a little more caring and get over his jerk behavior. You are right. How many times would you fight with your partner and how many times do you think things would settle down. But that conversation of JW actually made me think that one should look this in a guy, the personality traits that he was describing are the ones which would make for a long lasting relationship.

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that's what got me too. and here I thought Jungwon was just all loving and giving without seeing the bigger picture. it made me realize that he has always been sincere with his intentions to marry her.

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@tb_a, agree, when it comes to choosing a marriage partner, dependability, trustworthy and sense of security are the most important. It is better to marry someone who treats you with respect rather than one that gives you the thrills with his unpredictable behaviour. A roller-coaster ride once in a while is fun, but if this becomes a daily affair, it will be hell.

HS could have explained to NR upfront that he was holding back from dating her because of his consideration for JW instead of giving NR the cold shoulder. Yet NR was acting like an attention hungry puppy following him around though he insensitively disregarded her feelings for a second time.

kdramas are always conveying the dubious message that jerks can make a complete transformation and turn coy and sweet and understanding once they genuinely fall in love. A leopard does not change its spots, once a jerk always a jerk. Though it seems tempting to be able to tame a leopard with the power of love, be forewarned, this is very unlikely to happen in reality.

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@pebble I didn't really like that part. if you were so desperately in love with the person, and she finally falls on your lap, why would you even make her suffer even for a tiny bit? to give her a dose of her medicine? (cute for the viewers, hell for the person feeling it)
he could have explained it to her like a mature and sincere person. yet they say hwashin's honesty is refreshing.
Uhm..bluntness and honesty are different things.

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I feel like there's an assumption that marrying the guy that gives you thrills means you're marrying the unpredictable one. But why do you assume every guy that makes you feel that way is unstable?

I think the point is that the one that challenges you everyday but has your back in life is the ideal for every person.

I don't think this drama is trying to sell HS as someone that does a one eighty for one girl. Yeah, I don't think he communicated well with her here but overall he's always been the same person with her and without. He just needed to grow to be a better version of himself and I think he's still working towards that. We still have time left in this show to see that happening.

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❤❤@ Quinze

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Yes! Oh, yes!
Hwa Shin always tried to protect Na Ri even when he was still coming around to realize, that he really can allow himself to like her back. He helped her in every way possible in their job.

People talked about a revenge kiss with Hye Won in last episode's comments, he is human, maybe he has a little revenge teasing Na Ri after realizing she loves him. But his intentions were great and to me they were obvious. It would have been horrible to start dating the second she left Jung Won.

And let's all remember how he restrainded himself after he realized that he loved her and she was dating Jung Won. He tried everything possible to stay out of their way and not disturb them. After learning about his feelings by finding the pictures he urged her to not be swayed by him. He was suffering so much but tried to save his friendship and not meddle with the dating couple.

Jung Won otoh ignored Na Ri's reluctance. He is used to get what he wants, if he doesn't get it, he buys it. Although Na Ri told him (correct me if it really was Hwa Shin), that she even couldn't chew a borrowed gum, he tried to force this stupid credit card upon her, he proposed to her in company of his mom, and did the most stupid thing by maneuvering her into the dinner situation. We all know what this means.

Now after the break-up he is not accepting or trying to stay back, he still is presumptuous and even lies. Or do you all believe, that Hwa Shin never dated anyone longer than three months? Because in the beginning of the show they were shocked to learn, that they both dated Soo Young. Obviously they don't really know about their relationships. And we also know, that Hwa Shin dated her till he went to the army, although we don't know, when he went before or during college. Also telling the girl not to wait for two years isn't exactly a way of breaking-up just to go to the next girl.

I always liked Jung Won, but he, too, got issues and I trust the show, that he'll learn by this experience and not become a total jerk. Honest till it hurts Hwa Shin would not have been livelong friends with a character like that, it's just that Jung Won has to learn defeat.

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@Quinze, I said "giving the thrills with his unpredictable behaviour" in the context of HS and NR at the end of this ep. It was not meant as a sweeping statement for all situations.

HS was unpredictable, one moment he was giving her the cold shoulder and the next, he was kissing her so passionately. The unpredictability of HS's reconciliation with her made that kiss felt like a more fiery and "thrilling" experience for NR. Imo, NR would be better off choosing boring but dependable JW though he was not giving her much thrills. However, things changed in the next ep as NR stepped up when being cornered by HS, but HS was still being unpredictable as even NR was dumbfounded by his reaction, albeit a positive reaction. Let's not discuss here as I do not want to throw spoilers. :)

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@ Pebble
I get what you're saying but I don't see it as a damning trait of his character that can't be changed. NR has said it before and I think it still rings true even at this point in the story. She has said she has difficulty trusting him because of history with him. This isn't something new. And likewise, HS has his own set of insecurities that makes it hard for him to be consistent at all times or to trust her feelings for him. He's not written to be this perfect put together complete product of a man. But again, I think the story makes that apparent (his ex literally spends 5 minutes listing his flaws. He doesn't even have a peep of protest to that because he's well aware of them I feel).
He doesn't know until this episode whether she has feelings for him and he doesn't know if they have a future together until after he hears it from both parties that they've broken up. Still, to jump into a relationship right after seems disrespectful to JW. Should he have communicated that to NR? Of course, but like I said he's not perfect and that's the point (lol who's ever described HS as truly mature?).

That still doesn't mean that this relationship has no potential to grow into a secure healthy one. We're watching their progression and seeing how they went from taking turns loving each other one-sidedly to finally coming together to start something together. It's not going to be picture perfect or smooth but even in real life it won't always be that way for every healthy couple.

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@Pebble: "I said “giving the thrills with his unpredictable behaviour” in the context of HS and NR at the end of this ep. It was not meant as a sweeping statement for all situations.

"HS was unpredictable, one moment he was giving her the cold shoulder and the next, he was kissing her so passionately. The unpredictability of HS’s reconciliation with her made that kiss felt like a more fiery and 'thrilling' experience for NR. Imo, NR would be better off choosing boring but dependable JW though he was not giving her much thrills."

This reminds me of the old behaviorist experiments with pigeons: The pigeons received food pellets (rewards) for pressing a bar. When they received a pellet every time they pressed the bar (dependability), they were not as interested and did not press the bar as many times as when they only sometimes received the reward for pressing the bar. The pigeons pressed the bar many more times to receive the food reward when they were uncertain of outcome, than they did when they knew they would get it for pressing the bar.

Supposedly this works for training dogs, too: You're not supposed to give the treat every time when training them in a new behavior, because on some level they perform the cost-benefit analysis and eventually feel, "No, I really don't want to get the biscuit for doing this behavior this time." It becomes less interesting to them. Whereas, if they are not certain they'll get the reward, that sharpens the interest for them.

That, in a nutshell, is Na Ri's relationship with Jung Won and Hwa Shin, to me. Jung Won is the dependable one, so the reward of his loving behavior feels predictable, boring, and less valuable to her, than the loving behavior she only sometimes receives from Hwa Shin. She really has to work for it with Hwa Shin. When she finally does get love from him (as opposed to a cold shoulder), she feels so rewarded!

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Haha, @Jamie, thanks for giving us such an interesting explanation from Psychology 101. This is a universal truth, and it can also be explained from the perspective of Economics 101 too. :)

As JW is giving his love so freely, he is over supplying it, and NR being the consumer is subjected to the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility, as such, the more she received, diminishing satisfaction set in and she became less and less thrilled by it. As for HS, since the supply is unpredictable and can be cut off anytime (he was threatening about breaking up), his love becomes an ostentatious good, i.e. NR wanting it more as the price she has to pay for HS's attention gets higher and higher. LOL. Economics is actually not my field, I better stop spouting nonsense here. :)

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Lol @Pebble! I like your Econ 101 explanation--Dramabeans University for the win!

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I sincerely do think that Hwa Shin may have given the situation some time not just out of respect to his friend but also to give Na Ri some time to really make sure he was the one she wanted to be with. If that were truly the case I can understand his actions. He could've still maybe gone about it a little differently but I can almost understand him being cold to her. When he went to Jung Won and apologized, man oh man I'm sorry but that was just such a show of good character. It made complete sense why he was acting the way he was. I also can't imagine the drama would let their friendship end because of a girl, so he'd have to show that he's taking his friend's feelings into consideration. I mean, we already can imagine what Hwa Shin and Na Ri's chemistry was going to be like when they got together, no need to rub it in his face so soon.

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But, I think if this episode established anything at all, it was that hwa shin hasn't changed. That despite falling In love, he still remains the same person. Him not telling na ri why he is keeping her at distance is exactly in line with his character. He does things he believes is the best without consulting others, like the case with his brother, where I think he assumed it was better for him to expose his brother before anybody else found it. He does things with good intentions but since he doesn't share it with the people concerned beforehand, when it comes out, it Inevitably hurts them, so he gets called a jerk and his reason for doing it doesn't matter anymore.

So, I think if he had explained to her upfront, then that would have been totally out of character for him.

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Well, Ep 20 is the episode that l've been waiting for since the beginning of this drama. That is, how HS redeem himself to be NR-deserving. Not to give spoiler here but till the very end he's still the same HS but he proves he is that one partner that will walk with NR into the sunset weathering the storm together and grow professionally and personally together.

Can't wait for the discussion.

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Yeah, that's it @Imbuk, well said! A jerk is someone who does something that inflicts hurt without considering the feelings of others. The fact that HW didn't bother to explain himself but left NR desperately hankering for his love like dangling a carrot to entice her then using a stick to beat her up by purposely giving her the cold shoulder and making her jealous of HW, while all this time, he himself was enjoying the attention from NR and rejoicing in her jealousy. If this is not jerk behaviour, what is??

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@pebble I agree hwa shin is a jerk, but I don't think he purposefully does it. I believe he has good intentions, the way he goes about is what is wrong. I think he thought that na ri needed some space because of her break up with Jung won and that it would be taking advantage of her if they start dating just like that. Also he was not mean to her the way he was when she had a crush on him, he was just neutral, so I guess that meant what he said at the end is what he actually felt. Also, I think he wanted her to trust him regarding hye won but I agree that is hard to do when he refuses to give an explanation.

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Actually, I'm sitting on the fence, as I don't dislike HS, I could see his sincerity as well, though his actions and insensitivity infuriated me at times, so whoever NR chose to be with, it's fine, my initial posting above was directed at NR's subconscious choice and behaviour, not so much about criticizing HS. Yes, HS is not a jerk at heart, but he acted like a jerk as he failed to empathize with others. We see this clearly in ep 20, he thought what he did was for the good of NR, and he only realised the impact of his action on her until those around him scolded him. Being with HS requires a lot of hard work, while with JW, it seems to be a breezier choice as NR obviously felt more comfortable with him, like in the company of a reliable old friend.

Well, kdramas always give us hope that the jerk is either a nice person at heart, or if not, he will always be able to work through whatever issues and the couple will eventually overcome all odds and end up happily ever after. So based on this rom-com formula, we will be seeing more of HS redeeming himself in the last 4 eps. Alright, to be fair, JI has that element of unpredictability which spiced things up quite a fair bit to keep viewers amazed, so overall, it still offers a rather enjoyable watching experience.

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Correct. HS has a big communication issue. Even if he think he thinks he is right, he needs to communicate and explain the reasoning of his actions so that others can understand his actions...Again, I don't think HS is a bad and selfish person. I have listed why in the previous comments so I won't list it here again. I was conflicted with this movie several weeks ago since I would always advocate good guys over bad guy but couldn't bring myself to support JW and I think I know why now. #1. - even though HS looks rough from the outside but inside he is honest/care about NR. JW looks like a perfect husband material from the outside but he has flaws too. He introduced NR to his mom and said that he will marry her in a month without asking NR's approval beforehand. He forced NR to use his credit card (I found these actions very offensive), He gives drink an popcorn to NR in the movie theatre without even taking his eyes off the movie (compare that with HS in the movie and you can see that HS focus on NR instead of the movie). #2. In order to have a good relationship, you have to be compatible and have chemistry. There's no chemistry between JW and NR but there's a lot of proof that HS and NR have a lot of chemistry with each other. On top of that, they become themselves, bicker and share their vulnerabilities with each other (which is needed for stronger relationship). #3. In order to have a satisfying relationship, you need to have it with someone with similar passion/goal as you. NR's dream is to become a successful anchor and make her mark in the broadcasting world (which is similar to HS's goal and passion). They can understand each other because of this and honestly, I think HS is the best person to help her achieve that goal.

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❤ @ Y, Imbuk, Quinze, newbie, PYC

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My husband and I are both boring folk who give each other space and just get along with life. And as life is not a drama I hope no one takes cues from dramas and just looks around and sees how people around them get along and make decisions!!!!

I don't mind wherever dramas go. They are not real - well they are real enough to empathise with the situations but mainly they are skewed reality with tropes aplenty.

Generally in a drama the likes of JW act as a foil to throw in relief the eccentricities of the main characters or to forge their connection. Or even if its JW as the lead, you can bet they will thrown in a manic pixie dream girl sort to balance it.

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I'm glad you and your husband are happy in your relationship.

But I do think it's simplistic to assume we take cues from dramas as if we don't realize these are exaggerations of reality.

That being said, not every relationship is one where getting along in life is the prerequisite for success. People have different motivations for being together. Some people fight all the time but do so in a way that helps let out frustrations in the security of a loving relationship. It doesn't mean it's unhealthy or that it's destined to fail.

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"But I do think it’s simplistic to assume we take cues from dramas as if we don’t realize these are exaggerations of reality."

I hope so and that these arguments are only cos people get attached to certain characters. But sometimes you have to wonder if "I am too much in love with a fictional hero" memes are also somewhat true!! Whether it is Mr Darcy or JW they are fictional constructs after all. Men like that do not exist.

And I absolutely agree, there is no one kind of happy or correct marriage and mine is no prescription for it.

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@Karuna: ""Generally in a drama the likes of JW act as a foil to throw in relief the eccentricities of the main characters or to forge their connection. Or even if its JW as the lead, you can bet they will thrown in a manic pixie dream girl sort to balance it."

"But sometimes you have to wonder if “I am too much in love with a fictional hero” memes are also somewhat true!! Whether it is Mr Darcy or JW they are fictional constructs after all. Men like that do not exist."

Well said in both your posts, Karuna!

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@Jamie, thank you!

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Dear people..... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
What you re discussing here does bring fresh perspective to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your very nice thoughts..

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Gold..:-) :-)

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The fact that you married JW type of guy and happy is very good. However, it doesn't mean that HS and NR's relationship cannot work either. In my own experience, I chose a more difficult guy (but not a bad person) to marry too. We dated for 8 years and been married for 6 years with 1 kid. Our relationship was very volatile to begin with and in the beginning we fought almost every other day but we persevered, went through hardship together and we ended up becoming better people and having stronger relationship.

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I agree! I'm married for 17 years (actually today is our anniversary ;) ) and we dated 9 years before that. We have a great marriage and we know we can rely on each other. We do fight. But fighting clears the atmosphere (see ep. 20). And we need it, because, as my hubby once said to me, he needs a sparring partner, not somebody talking after his mouth.

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Happy Anniversary, Newbie!!!❤❤??
Stay happy and healthy!

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@MyGirl2016 - Thank you! <3

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Happy anniversary Newbie ..
:-) :-) :-)

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I completely agree with you. JW's character is the marriage material and not the HW person. "Boring and bland" but comfortable was what I described my bf and now husband. I totally experienced a HS like character bf who was my crush, brought out my feeling of insecurity and gave me heartaches. It was totally heaven at a moment but hell the next...so tiring!

Nari is totally stupid right now which I understand but I really hate watching this episode. I just fast forward most of the time.

I am hoping the writers get real here. Please end the story the right.

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I've had the JW type come along in life and unfortunately no matter how great he looked on paper, how nice his whole family was to me, how much my parents loved him and vice versa, and how nice he was to me, there wasn't any way I could see myself with him being happy. I couldn't connect with him, feel attracted to him, see the potential for a future, or even feel excitement speaking to him. So yes, even in real life the "boring" nice guy could come along and despite logic and common sense, some people can't think to make it work.

Does that make me stupid? Maybe to you (my parents would like to think so), but to me it just means that it's not the kind of relationship I want.

I feel that NR isn't being stupid. She just doesn't need the boring nice guy. She wants and needs someone that makes her feel excited about the every day and loves her even when she's angry and yelling. Someone that pushes her buttons but wants to actively help her succeed in her dreams.

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This show is all about the details and nuances. I highly doubt you catch them ff-ing.

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Beautiful..beautiful..beautiful...
*i really drop my jaw, people.
Thanks..thanks..thanks...

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Yes... My husband think like u do. Only rare girl will choose jungwon, but if u do it, u will not regret it.

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Yeah, I got angry at her this episode. Why? Why act so pathetic? So frustrating.

In other news - I want the moms to live together with Ppal Gang forever and eat breakkie with Chef and each have lovers to see them through.

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how this drama will probably end:
- hwa shin and nari riding off into the sunset
- possible abrupt pairing with jung won and hyewon

how I want this drama to end:
- nari and jung won!! tbh their r/s just feels sweeter and would be really great if jung won learnt to give her some space
-hwa shin and hye won bc come on they'd actually be equals in their r/s and hwa shin actually gives her some respect?? plus honest r/s too bc hye won would totally call him out on his jerk ways

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JW should be the one riding off into the sunset ALONE!!! Living NR and HS in their own mess...
Maybe JW can find a girl and a real bestfriend then comes back to show HS that He is better alone without him..

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I don't know if it just me but I want Jung Won and Announcer Soo Jung to be together.

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Me too. They might give it a serious try.

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Same lol. Mostly because her coming to his place drunk and spiteful was hilarious. And they have chemistry!

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I wanted hyewon and hwashin too lol
only because she will probably say "and so?" if he tells her about his breast cancer (which is the main thing that emasculates him) and wouldn't that be the perfect partner for a proud guy like him so he would be loved without worrying that it is tinged with pity? I like hwashin too, btw. I'm just partial to Jungwon.

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Its HS for NR and HS fell much deeper for NR when he realised that NR is the only one who would accept him for who he really is. HS has his eyes only for NR now... and I doubt Hye Won would accept HS after knowing about his illness.

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same reason why I'm not sold to the idea that they should give a "better" girl to JW because he told hwashin he's never wanted anyone so desperately in his life like Nari. he should just be given a dignified exit, not into the arms of a new girl.
I like hyewon :) I think she is kind despite of her tough act. she's never shown any cruel side and I admire her for that.

I wonder if she has a clause in her contract that says no deep kissing. am I the only one who can clearly see that that was a fake TV/theater kiss? lol

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Concerning Jung Won I'm still unsure whether he really loves Na Ri or just wants to possess her. She is someone he can't buy and that is a challange as he is used to get what he wants. She is so different from all the women in his life, but I am not sure if it is really love for him. She is intruiging and cute, but they have nothing in common.

Why is he so obsessed with her? And what did he really do for her so far? Okay, he gave her clothes (with the nice side effect, that his brand gets promoted in tv) and he held up his mom on her way to the audition. But without Hwa Shin Na Ri wouldn't have made it in time. Other than that? Help my memory. Pay for food? Drive her to work? Some gentlemanly stuff.

For Hwa Shin it is something differnt. They really get each other. They have a deeper understanding for each other because they know the jobs they are working and the demands that come with it. Also she knows about his illness. She has seen him in the hospital and smelled his farts. Hwa Shin even gave up his opportunity to become the 9pm ancor. That's a major sacrifice and he simply shrugged it off. On top of that he saved her job when she was tipsy, he gave her all the advice she needed for the audition. This stuff is in a different league than what Jung Won did.

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@Newbie: "And what did [Jung Won] really do for her so far? Okay, he gave her clothes (with the nice side effect, that his brand gets promoted in tv) and he held up his mom on her way to the audition. But without Hwa Shin Na Ri wouldn’t have made it in time. Other than that? Help my memory. Pay for food? Drive her to work? Some gentlemanly stuff."

How about consistent warmth, kindness, affection, and regard? Treating her at all times as though she is valuable to him? Making clear his feelings and intentions? Not blowing hot and cold?

Jung Won has never not treated her well, until they got into this ridiculous situation. Even that's debatable.

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@Jamie
See, I'm willing to say that he didn't show her regard. He was nice, polite, that all is true, but he never valued her own opinion. He pressured her to address him in a more casual way when she didn't want to do it, he force fed her the popcorn in the theater, when she threw away this credit card he laughed it off. He never showed, that he respected or understood her decisions. It was all about him and what he wants.
He is not downright obnoxious, I really like him!, but in the long run such a kind of behaviour will create lots of problems in a relationship. Na Ri is absolutely not the kind of girl willing to go with what the guy says.
Jung Won still got something to learn. Once he realizes it, he will be a good partner for someone. But never ever for Na Ri.

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@Newbie:
I'm willing to say that Jung Won and Na Ri are not a good match for each other. He likes her (and believes he loves her), but he doesn't understand her, though he respects her goal of being an anchor.

I think you said upthread (and sorry if it wasn't you) that you didn't like Jung Won forcing his credit card on her, and treating it like a joke when she said she didn't want it. But someone else pointed out that she asked for a car from him earlier. It wasn't clear from that scene how much of a joke that actually was to her--a little, a lot? If it was ambiguous to me as a viewer, so how much more ambiguous would it have been to him?

Eh, so far as smelling Hwa Shin's farts go, for that matter she's seen Jung Won naked, front and back. That's not really such a big deal, either way. It's what's inside that counts.

Hwa Shin and Na Ri share career goals, for sure, and Hwa Shin is more help to her that way. For whatever reason, she's obsessed with him and he's recently become obsessed with her. Codependency is another word for a match made in heaven, I suppose: she loves to follow Hwa Shin, fuss over him, and doesn't respect his personal boundaries. (She force fed Hwa Shin as much as Jung Won force fed her.) I think Hwa Shin is really into that now that he's had to deal with the cancer diagnosis, though he couldn't stand it before.

Really, what matter is that Na Ri want Hwa Shin and not Jung Won. It's her decision to make, although I don't think she makes the best decisions ever.

Truthfully, I almost quit the show every time Na Ri is shown behaving like a stalker toward Hwa Shin: it's both invasive and beyond pathetic, and throws up huge red flags. (The words creepy and grotesque come to mind, too.) Hwa Shins's coldness to her didn't bother me before he decided he liked her back: it's really what she deserved and the apparently only way to make it clear to someone like her that her behavior is unwelcome and has to stop. But after he told her he liked her, the blowing hot and cold and pushing her away and twisting the knife of jealousy in her...it's not nice.

They may work out as a couple in kdramaland, but I know a couple like this in real life, and it's not pretty.

P.S. I do love JJS and his acting of Hwa Shin's character; and Hwa Shin does have his charms and attractions, for sure.

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@Jamie - Her 'wish' for a new car never was anything other than a joke testing the waters for me. Like she said, she couldn't chew a borrowed gum. Even during the time she was officially dating him, she only accepted the dress he made for her, as he sponsored the tv people with his clothes all the time, and immediately brought it back when she thought he'd marry the other girl. She is not someone accepting gifts easily. Their dinner dates (and I assume he paid) were actually always Jjajangmyeon. Can it get any cheaper?

As for Na Ri's pushiness. Yes, she appears a little clingy, tries to make her charmes work on him, but we must consider that we see e.g. a lot of flashbacks back to back, in real time this might have stretched over months and wouldn't be as aggressive. And we are still watching a rom-com. Exaggerating is their choice of stylistic device.

I really doubt the creators want to sell us stalking as a valid method to approach a partner or as romantic (like they do right now in Something About 1%, did in I Need Romance 3 and many other shows, albeit mostly done by a male).

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@Newbie: You're right, of course Na Ri is not materialistic. But what do you mean her joke (about wanting him to buy her a car) was "testing the waters"? Testing to see if he actually would agree to buy her a car? To see if he gets her sense of humor? There was joking back and forth, but she brought it up, and it was an odd joke. It wasn't 100% clear what she meant in that scene. I don't blame Jung Won for not getting her; but what is more important is, he doesn't get her, which means they are wrong for each other.

"As for Na Ri’s pushiness. Yes, she appears a little clingy..."

A little?!?! Are we watching the same show?

"...in real time this might have stretched over months and wouldn’t be as aggressive."

If even one of those incidents had happened in all those months (i.e., the staring sadly and resentfully at Hwa Shin's blind date and refusing to leave, which was frankly incredibly uncomfortable, bizarre and boundary-crossing), that would be reason enough to never have anything to do with her again.

Yes, I get that comedy exaggerates. But how much is too much? To me, that was too much.

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We have to agree to disagree then.

The car buying scene was an absolute joke to me, it never crossed my mind that she ment what she said watching it. Yes, she was testing the waters as in how far could she go. Would he really say 'yes' to such a bizarre, pompous demand?

Her being clingy worked for me, too. Because within the boundaries of this quirky jewel of a rom-com she needed to behave like that. Hwa Shin built such a thick wall around himself, she needed to be like this to crack it and make him see and finally believe, that she is in earnest and really, really sees him and still wants him.

The bahaviour that gave me problems in this show is coming from Jung Won, who is of such a subtle jerkiness, that many in the audience still fail to see it. He is a lovable character on the surface, but somehow his issues are far bigger for me than Hwa Shin's or Na Ri's, because they are hard to detect and to me therefore more difficult to deal with. I'm looking forward to see how the show will play it out. His actions are already on the edge and the coming eps will show how deep his outer perfectness really goes. Crossing my fingers, that the wonderful bromance will survive!

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@Newbie: Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

"Yes, she was testing the waters as in how far could she go. Would he really say ‘yes’ to such a bizarre, pompous demand?"

See, I think "testing" someone by saying something you don't mean to see how they react is absolutely not cool. It's manipulative. I would absolutely be offended if someone pulled that on me.

Na Ri's being deliberately dishonest and opaque in her motivations in this "buy me a car/I'm joking but I'm not" scene, so I do not blame Jung Won for being confused. (And let us note here that he does not believe there is anything wrong with wanting to provide/or be provided for materially in a relationship!)

I think Na Ri is being manipulative with Hwa Shin, for that matter, too. I don't like power games. The whole thing bothers me.

"Subtle jerkiness" on Jung Won's part I'll agree with, though I think it is not more of a problem than Hwa Shin's blatant jerkiness.

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Jung Won, just ruuunnn.... Runnn.. Runnn from HS & NR!!
Find a good girl who loves you and another best friend who also cares about you!! Don't look back!! Leave them!!

Show, please don't downgrade JW's character anymore!! Don't make him into a despicaple SL!! Pleaaaaseee!! JW is cool and a good guy in earlier eps before his so called bestfriend and ex-GF dragged him into this mess... He might be boring and bland, but HE IS A GOOD GUY!! Why is it dramas always want the jerk-type of guy gets the girl??

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UGH, ikr?
Young Beanies, please take a practical lesson from this drama (at least so far) and when given a choice, pick the boy who always smiles when he sees you.

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I'm far from being a young beanie and my practical lesson from this show is very differnt. DON'T take the boring, polite guy. Life is long, why spend it with someone who has nothing in common with you?
Love and passion are fleeting, choose the guy who really gets you and supports you not only with money but with advices that help you achieve something. Share a common interest and be real friends.

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@Newbie... ♥♥♥ your comment, and for the record, I'm also far from being a young beanie myself.

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I am young and single, bbstl and Newbie. :-)
This show seems have consumed me so much. Sure, I ll consider your advices here, hehe..

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AGREE 100% with newbie. Don't chose a guy "just because" he is nice and has a perfect husband material. There has to be more than that!! Consider vulnerabilities, passion/goals, and interest.

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Ha! I'd say don't pick a guy who's mean to you, ever. It's just not worth it.

And OF COURSE, as you said, don't choose a guy just because he's nice. Does that even need to be said?

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I wouldn't take JW just because he's nice (and good-looking and rich) if I didn't have feelings for him. On the other hand, even if I did have feelings for HS, I wouldn't take him because I hate playing games in relationships. It annoys me to no end and the 'feelings' that I have end up going away anyway if the games continue.

But, to each their own. Depends on your preferences and priorities.

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+1,000

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+100000

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I have a male friend who is a longtime GHJ fanboy so he watches all her stuff. he was steongly team Hwashin at first because he can relate to his situation at the beginning of the story.
but he stopped watching after ep18 lol
said he couldn't take it that (his) nari will end up with such a jerk. he said he wanted him to change and deserve her love Before he won her over.
he also didn't like what the writer did to Jungwon's character to highlight Hwashin's good points.

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Exactly. I have always liked HS but he should've changed.

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+10000. I believe NR's conclusion about her jealousy-provoked love was wrong. Between Jealousy and Sincerity, which is love? I won't get jealous or feel threatened by a partner that's steady, reliable and consistent. Jealousy often stems from insecurity and uncertainty; which let's admit is pretty much how HW leave NR feeling most of the time.

It's pretty upsetting how Kdrama land always has the bad guy get the girl. And for someone who mentioned in some comments up there about cues not really being taken from movies. Please, get real. Lots of watchers take cues from movies (consciously or subconsciously). I've seen and known a number of unhealthy, abusive relationships with either partner always wanting to get the upper hand playing unnecessary mind games. I've had friends who wanted the bad guy over the doting, affectionate, boring one because the bad guy is more interesting or dynamic. Never ends well!

No offence to those shipping HW and NR but in real life, such relationship won't work unless they make sacrifices of honor and self-abasement.

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Yes....just run JW!!! NR actually does not deserve you. LOL. Give up NR and remain bff with HW.
Someone else better will come along.

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the symbolism of that cup ramyun: rediscovering something that was hidden but always there.
i love that line ❤❤
i'm so happy for NR & HS,sorry for JW
thanks for the recap DB

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+1

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Aww that's a great line!

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This drama loves to do the unconventional. The Hye-won and Hwa-shin's kiss resolution,the way those two mom made up after that crying-yelling fest, or that adorable cake for all wishes.

Now, on to the romance front. I do think that Jung-won's involvement in that triangle love made Hwa-shin felt more insecure. And that resulted in him being a complete jerk. Sure, he is an arrogant and narcissistic person even before that, but he is capable of showing kindness and taking care of others. But whenever his best friend is involved, he behaves like a man who forgot that he can be something other than a prick. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into his character...

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No, I don't think you are reading too much into his character at all. Hwashin's character is written with lots of layers. He can outwardly seem like this egoistic guy full of pride, but then you also see him come across as this selfless man who didn't think twice before putting his career into jeopardy to help the woman he loves.

That guy... he tries . To do the right thing, to be a better man. And you can't help but give him credit for that.

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Well phrase sis..

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Yeah definitely think when he first kissed with NR and then subsequently watched her backpedal into saying she loved both guys, it made him feel like he wasn't enough on his own merit. Like I think he's always recognized in his head that JW is so much more an impressive guy in terms of character and gentlemanly behavior (which I feel is more that on paper he looks so much better but he's about the same once you dig further) that he feels like he doesn't really add up.

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I believe JW is really a nice guy. However, he turns out become jealous that he is no longer act like his usual self. He has flaws too..

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JW is scary when jealous, right from when he knew HS's feelings for NR he's acted rash with HS... and that was even when HS decided to stay away

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I too find his jealousy is scary, lol..

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Finally Hwa~Nari, Fine-A-Lee!!! You two big IDIOTS! *happy tears*

Fav part in ep 19 (well, apart from that ending :) ) - The birthday cake scene - the gazillion candles that nearly burned down the SBC station, Hwashin being an unwilling participant for the birthday song, their all-inclusive make-a-wish performance, HS plunging the knife into the cake ... I loved it all!

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Usually I feel compelled to rewatch just the romantic bits in dramas because most of the side characters are your usual standard stock personalities.

That cake scene was so fun I had to rewatch it a few times. Just the literal 50 candles, using the cake for like 3 different birthdays, everyone making a wish haha.

I swear I love all the side characters in this show. The two moms, Announcer Uhm (Still not over him clogging their bathroom after failing to change a lightbulb lol) and PD Oh (...is his office even his?).

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True that. Lovable side characters galore!

PD Oh - is his office even his? he he..

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I too doubt it as no one listens or obeys his orders much, especially HS, JS, JY

I love that they share a friendly bonding

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The side charachters in this show are not to be missed. At times I wait for their scenes when our main trio goes on for too long. Plus they are all top notch actors. This is what good acting does to a good script. Every scene stands out and you don't want to miss a single thing.

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I am sure, I love them all.
HS's wish turns out better, that NR finally acknowledge her love for HS to JW herself.

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Not quite sure why so many people are saying date HwaShin but marry JungWon.

I mean, sure, JungWon is the safe, nice, comforting, steady (though that's a little debatable in these episodes) guy and HwaShin is a little nuts but not all relationships are the same and not all people want the same people to go through life with them. Each and every relationship has it's own vibe.

All I'm saying is choose who you wanna choose, the guy your heart says yes to or the guy your head says yes to. Whatever it is, take responsibilty for your decisions. If you choose the guy your heart says yes to, don't complain that he's not perfect. If you choose the guy your head says yes to, don't complain that he doesn't make your heart beat and look elsewhere or sigh for more.

Damn, JungWon is a sad kicked puppy now, but NaRi doesn't owe him anything in the feelings department. Feelings are not anyone's posessions other than the person in question him/herself and certainly not claimable on 'first come first serve' or 'she's mine since you gave up' basis.

1 Night 2 Days had a debate (posted on it's fb page) about this topic (though the girl discussed there is a long time girlfriend, so it's a bit different) and there was one sentence that DongGu (Yoon SiYoon) said that I highly concur with - cheating is definitely morally wrong, but you can't judge love with morals. What more in this case when none in the triangle are married or even in a long time, commited relationship.

JungWon would do better to save himself and back out. He'd do even better if he doesn't harbour ill feelings.

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"All I’m saying is choose who you wanna choose, the guy your heart says yes to or the guy your head says yes to. Whatever it is, take responsibilty for your decisions. If you choose the guy your heart says yes to, don’t complain that he’s not perfect. If you choose the guy your head says yes to, don’t complain that he doesn’t make your heart beat and look elsewhere or sigh for more."

ˆˆˆThis is a perfect way to put what I feel really needs to be said about both this drama and relationships in general.

I feel like people keep assuming that the younger/more idealistic you are the more you'll choose HS over JW but...not really. It's all about what you want out of life. Some ladies prefer the safe steady guy, others prefer the possibly unstable passionate guy. I hope no one prefers the trashy abusive guy but otherwise chose what works best for you in life.

And yes thank you. NR really doesn't owe JW anything. She didn't drag it on longer than it needed to once she was sure and she was honest with him. She's sorry towards him that this happened the way it did but this was her final choice and that's that.

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LOVE IT Perps..

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For those who think that JW is better for marriage, don't forget that he's a mama's boy. Nari's mother-in-law would pester her until the end of days.

South Korea is not like the States, where you can just move to the opposite side of the country to escape your in-laws -- it only takes a couple hours to get from seoul to busan.

Hwashin's mom OTOH seems like a cool and laidback lady.

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+1

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Right? Ha ha..
I like Hwashin’s mum too.

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Wonderful post, Peeps. You really pinpointed exactly why I've felt so conflicted reading some posts that seem so sure of this relationship failing. Every person is different. We all just have a responsibility to find what we're looking for in our respective relationships and establish a rhythm that works for us. Love and chemistry work in mysterious ways. A relationship that seems like it could never work for you, could be just what another person is looking for. As long as a couple is willing to work at their differences and continue to build trust with each other, they have a shot at establishing a supportive relationship. I don't see how anyone can readily judge these two just because their relationship isn't ideal for them personally. Everyone deserves to go after what makes them happy. Some are just willing to take more of a risk than others.

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You said it well, Peeps. I do believe that when it comes to a relationship, to each their own. Even though HS may not be every girl's cup of tea, neither is JW. I am part of the older audience group of this drama, but I definitely belong to the minority who think that a guy like HS is not necessarily a bad choice, and no, a nice, steady guy like JW, doesn't necessarily the one best choice for every women, either. We each has our own personality traits, so I also believe that the best guy for each woman cannot be judged just by one standard.

That said, I do feel sorry for JW this episode, simply because he's so crushed.

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Yes, thank you. Look I respect the nice steady guy. I want nice things for him and that he's happy. But I want a good guy that's also going to level with me when I mess up, who isn't going treat me like I'll break, and who I can engage with about what I'm passionate about even if sometimes that means we'll end up rolling our eyes at each other. That level of open trust comes naturally and smoothly for some people and have to be pulled out like teeth for others (like NR and HW). But it doesn't mean it's an inferior relationship.

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- ‘NaRi doesnt OWE any one anything in the feelings departmnt.’ ❤❤ @peeps.
Nari chose who she wanted to choose. And people just need to make peace with that!

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Finally (although... i think it's a bit late) we're getting there with our two leads. Thanks!!

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Finally!! Even tho it was kinda obvious shed pick HS, im glad she finally did because it was getting frustrating. JW being delusional was sad but I expected him to act that way tbh. Idk why but I keep thinking he needs someone like Hyewon that could make him stop his act. HS looked inconsistent at the end... like, he smirked when he realized she was jealous and seemed like he was treating her coldly to get back at her because she couldnt trust him but then out of the blue, it turned out he was trying to 'wait' in respdct of his friend? Wth?? Random.

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lol I feel like it was more so that he was giving this the breathing room it needed especially telling after he goes to JW to let him know. But he couldn't help but enjoy her jealousy a tad bit because it's part of what he finds cute about her- when she's getting riled up.

Yeah it was actually hard watching JW this episode. His denial made me sad for him.

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Ya.. that bit wasn't handled very well.
So initially you are milking her jealousy (which I get, coz that's TOTALLY in character for Hwashin!). Then you do a bit of cold shouldering bcoz she still doesn't trust you regarding Hye Won. That also I get. But then at the end you say you were holding back out of respect to your friend. Okkkk... If you say so Hwashin-ah, if you say so.

P.s. But I still love you.

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To me, HS showed his soft side that he did feel JW's pain. After all he made a choice.

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Part of the reason why HS is a more compelling person to me is because he's complicated. He's a good guy with a very prickly exterior and a ton of flaws. But a good person nonetheless. When it counts, he'll be there for you. He won't sugarcoat things. And he gives credit where due. Yes sometimes (*ahem* most of the time...) his delivery is shit but he's not really doing it to be malicious. I think how he interacts with Hye Won is telling of that. He constantly mentors her without being egotistical and gives constructive criticism. He does it with NR too. He could still do with working on being a jerk but to me he's still a good guy.

It's actually realistic tbh. I've met a lot of guys that I could easily have dismissed as jerks but when you cut through their posturing bs and speak levelly with them, you realize they're actually good guys with the potential to be better.

And while I do love JW, I think he's got his own set of flaws too that people aren't recognizing. For everyone that keeps saying, it's not realistic to chase after HS over JW...I'm not sure that's accurate either. It goes with the assumption that HS is an abusive jerk because he yells a lot. Which I think is really dismissive. There are some people with no potential to be better people that are trash from the get go. Hwa shin is not that. And while JW is a nice guy, he'd be doing both himself and NR a disservice if they were to marry.

NR may appreciate his gentleness and goodness but it'd get old really fast. They're attracted to each other, they can have fun with each other but they don't seem to connect intellectually. They don't seem like they could challenge each other to do better. JW can't seem to drop down to be level with NR. It was telling in their date that he likes spoiling her and again while any girl can appreciate a well-mannered guy, not every girl enjoys being coddled or handled as if they're fragile. I think NR's biggest flaw is she thinks she wants to be coddled because she's never experienced that but what she really wants is someone who has her back and vice versa who won't think and speak FOR her.

I feel like I identify and relate with her in so many ways because of that and see why gravitates towards HS.

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good points. I just wished the writer made him "better"(?) earlier. then I would have joined in on cheering for him when he finally succeeds.
they probably wanted to drag out the 3some hijinks to make the visuals more interesting, and didn't take into account that people might actually move to the the other guy's side lol
nari should have stayed with her decision to dump them both and whatever they do after that would be their fault, not hers. but she got a bit greedy (who wouldn't haha)

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Well if they had made him better earlier there wouldn't be pay off and there certainly wouldn't be much of a story. Like if he WAS better at this point, we'd basically be at the finale now. I think at this point we get to watch HS grow as he tries to navigate a relationship he's fully invested in and to see him be that better person.

Lol honestly, the polarity isn't surprising in viewers but I don't think that's a flaw in the story. That's just a natural preference of viewers. I actually do see what is so appealing about JW and why he is so preferred amongst viewers. That's also a plus for the story because up until a few episodes ago as much as I love HS I could see NR going either way. Which is what the show wanted to portray. Now that it wants to show that NR (Not the viewer) chose HS, we'll see them grow together not separately.

Personally, while I do see the appeal in JW and were I to have a real life version of him, I still would need to feel that connection and level of comfort/familiarity with him before I could say that I would choose him over someone like HS. But then again...I'd probably be like NR and want to choose both lol.

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❤ Quinze

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If you rewatch the show, you'll see that Hwa Shin was 'better' from the very beginng. He is a very honest character and did all the right stuff. He is far from being malicious, yet he felt unworthy for anyone except Jung Won. So much so that he released his pent-up energy in this silly bar brawl in Thailand. It was like he tried to prove himself that he really is a jerk.

He is a tough professional who loves his job, but he is always fair. Remember the company outing at the ssamgyeopsal place when he wasn't allowed to drink and eat pork? Mr. Oh made some announcements concerning the ancor position. The original idea was to rank the contestants with Hwa Shin being in the top spot, but Oh fought for an equal start. Everybody applauded enthusiastically. Even Hwa Shin. That is how fair he is. The people misinterpret him and his actions, but he is far from being the ruthless egoist they and he think he is.

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Love love love love Newbie..
I ve fallen for his characters from the beginning but cannot put it into your beautiful words (pulling my hair). Thanks
:-) :-) :-)

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Excellent point about Hwashin’s fairness. @ newbie I remember that announcement by Oh PD.

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As if you're talking to me, lol. It's bugged me to deconstruct NR's men liking. Many thanks.

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Spot on Quinze - connect intellectually!

Reason enough for the HS-NR pairing.

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Mostly connected while picking fights, hahaha... NR often spotted holds back and lies for some reasons she knows better, but when it comes to confront HS, she makes a perfect match. She turns out as blunt as he is. That's my very first clue for their pairing ending.

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I second that Quinze!

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The ep was ok but they could have handled the progression differently. The writers can tell me that HS was just waiting (since she did date his bff and it made sense) but his actions made it seem like he was playing with her. I don't think we needed more episodes of him being a jerk or of NR grovelling for his attention. We already covered it in the beginning!

Speaking of which, I was also upset to see her character go back to stalking and begging (?!) for love. It didn't make sense at all.

The next ep did a better job of showing their relationship... The best thing about this ep was JJS dancing lol

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"Speaking of which, I was also upset to see her character go back to stalking and begging (?!) for love. It didn’t make sense at all."

I find her cute and entertaining. :-) :-)
Jealousy in a right dosage is one thing.

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I found it cute too. It wasn’t over done or anything. Just enough to build up feelings/ tension for the final bit of the episode.

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+1
She did everything to signal Hwa Shin, that he could make a move on her, because she for sure is no Hye Won who would come on to someone first.
Also I think it is a cultural thing. I've read, that in Korean relationships it is natural to text one's bf dozens of times a day. We would think of it as clingy, but apparently Koreans feel neglected if one doesn't do it? So Na Ri might not appear clingy or unsure to the Korean audience?

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+1. She kissed him once in the hospital out of her hurt pride. And she was silent till HS talked to her in the next day.
I've been thinking on her innocent part a lot. She seems to have strong principles on that room. For example, she was flustered with HS's flirts but in the end she could contain herself well. Am i making sense here? :-)

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@Amelyia - Ha! I almost forgot that kiss, but I think you are right. She kissed him for her hurt pride and not to convince him to come together. At that time she was sure she was over him and did it to demonstrate to him and herself that it was true.
If she would have wanted to become his girlfriend she would never have been able to do it. She once said, that she always was the one who had to ask the guy to become her bf, but initiating intimacy to get the guy is not her cup of tea. Also she so wished for a guy to make the move, she wanted to get it right this time.

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I was all prepared to be angry at Hwashin if he dares to give Nari the cold shoulder again but but but NAri was so cute being jealous. If I was Hwashin, I'll do the same thing just to see her pout. Yep, it seems like I have a sadistic streak in me. (^O^☆♪

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HAHA! I wasn't sure whether you'd be bold enough to write this outside the safety of our chat ;)

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*blink

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I think na ri did that because she believed that hwa shin was still angry about her having dinner with Jung won's mom? So, she was trying to appease him?

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Will they become 9 pm new announcers together and how? I want to see her as top news anchor. Show is still funny and I hope it stays like this till the end.

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It would hard to tell by now.. She might become very busy with babysitting work in the evening.
:-) (is it only me thinking so)

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First time commenting on a DB recap although I have been lurking here for over a year now haha but JI is sooo my fav drama rn that I have to say something about it!!!

Finally, NR and HW together :) I am so glad that Nari chose to listen to her heart and be true to everyone including herself! I love that she owns her feelings 100%, you go girl! To me, HW makes the perfect sense from Nari's perspective because at the end of the day, she is an independent lady who is smart and wants to earn things in life through hard work rather than having things handed to her. While JW seems to think that he needs to protect her, and be her shining knight in armor. Yes, he has all the husband material quality but if NR can't connect with him, then she can't.

I relate so much with Nari on her choice because I would personally pick the guy who is completely honest with me (no matter how brutally) and challenges me than a guy who does nice things to impress me and wants to treat me as his princess.

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NR once enjoyed it. It was the jealousy that burnt her and left the castle. JW assured her of things he could provide, but she said she was blindly jealous (of losing HS).

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I totally agree with you. I always thought Hwashin was the better choice for Nari. He challenges her, understands her and isn't afraid to push her to her full potential. I too prefer a guy like Hwashin. Someone who treat me as an equal and let me an independent woman when I want to be but is there for me when I need them. Jungwon is nice but I think he's too nice.

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I don't necessarily think that Na-ri is more independent with Hwa-shin than she is with Jung-won. Her relationship with Hwa-shin even outside of work has a very Sunbae-Hoobae vibe. He actively advises her, encourages her to rely on him and call the shots in the relationship based on what he thinks would be best for Na-ri. I would say that it's a relationship where Hwa-shin is the one doing the leading. This seems to be a dynamic that works well for the both of them and Na-ri grounds him quite well emotionally, but I don't know if I would call them equal partners.

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Not at all equal, and she still not even a permanent worker at the station which apparently is a huge deal in that world.

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Agreed, Ren and bbstl!

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That birthday cake sceen is my fave!! So darn funny

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If there's anything that should be said out here, is that the show stayed true to its unorthodox representation of love and hate in relationships. I think it's worth pointing out that a show like Jealousy Incarnate allows such a satirical take on the accustomed romantic plots in drama land and provides a fresher, more interesting and hilarious approach on love and its hijinks. They serve all these unconventional plots ploys to keep us constantly guessing while succumbing to confusion, disappointment and anticipation. I don't see anything wrong if the writer/production team decides to throw the second lead under the bus, because they've never really failed to put things in disorder without showing us the yellow brick path to their definition of what's right and just for its characters. Trust the writers. Trust the story.

Its such a common folk to not be able to shake off our own notions of a drama show. We're so acquainted to what we've been so used to watching that a show like Jealousy Incarnate spun its take on a romantic comedy, we were quick to react with bullets of comparisons, expectations and rationalizations. We aimed to shoot these bullets at a show that wanted us to experience something new. I personally think we need shows like this from time to time; a detox from the pragmatic drama plots, and every once in a while, its does feel refreshing to get a drama cleanse with a show like Jealousy Incarnate.

While its unavoidable that we tend to put our own circumstances and experiences in direct comparisons with the characters and the storyline, its also just as unfair to throw shade at the characters or the show if it doesn't really fall within ones beliefs or principles. Like everyone that finds watching drama shows a past time, we get invested on shows that grabbed our attention and it does suck when a show ends on a very unsatisfying note, that it leaves a bitter taste and forever tainting the people behind its production that made it possible. But not all shows end tragically. Some of the classics ended with the predictable happy ending and I think Jealousy Incarnate will have that chance to get us to understand why its story will end the way it will. They have done an outstanding job in paying close attention to every minute detail so rest assured we won't be left wondering idly (hopefully), that's what I want to believe in. It's worth a shot anyway.

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+1000

I thank the Team JI especially the writer for this amazing ride!

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Word.

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Yes!

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I find it hilarious that people who claim to hate the show, still find time every week to watch the show and/or read recaps and then construct elaborate arguments trying to convince others of how stupid they think the show really is.

ABC: I HATE the show!
Me: Ummm.. So?
ABC: It's a stupid show.
Me: Again, so?!

When I don't like a drama, I don't waste a single minute following the show in any way whatsoever. I let other people love what they love, and instead I seek out shows that I would enjoy. And participate in discussions about those shows.

Drama time is way too limited and precious to spend on shows that you so passionately hate, people!

And Yoyo, PYC, Chandler, Newbie - Along with you guys, I too stand by the incredible JI team. Fighting, JI!

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lol yeah seriously. I dropped K2 like a hot potato because I hated the premise and plot cliche. Doesn't mean I planned on hate watching and interjecting my unwanted opinion in the recaps. I sometimes hate-watch Grey's Anatomy too lol but that's to feed the mindless WTF? game lol.

Otherwise, my useless drama energy goes into characters I love and shows I feel do the story justice. I tend to drop shows I feel are playing around with my feelings for the cheap thrill of having people fight over their fave (Reply series <_<...CITT).

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@Quinze..Hate-watching! ha ha Thats the term!
The reply series - I adore In Guk. So I watched the first one. I heard watching the second one would scar me for life, so skipped it. And the third one, I wasn’t particularly invested in any of the ships - so no heartbreak there. But ya, I do remember thinking that the writer was trolling viewers quite a bit there.

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+1
"Trust the writers. Trust the story."

After some episodes, the story came out very much neat and unpredictable. Much much better than I ever could imagine. Thus, too I told my brain this.

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Trust the writers....true.
We are in it for the ride.
I wonder if they are reading our comments.

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?? I love it!

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@Yoyo: " the show stayed true to its unorthodox representation of love and hate in relationships. I think it’s worth pointing out that a show like Jealousy Incarnate allows such a satirical take on the accustomed romantic plots in drama land and provides a fresher, more interesting and hilarious approach on love and its hijinks. They serve all these unconventional plots ploys to keep us constantly guessing while succumbing to confusion, disappointment and anticipation."

I dunno, Yoyo: it's a little sexier than the standard kdrama love triangle (because they're all supposed to be in their thirties), but is it really any new or different? I think Hwa Shin is pretty much like most male leads in kdrama love triangles, and Jung Won like most male second leads.

First male lead: arrogant, emotionally insecure, behaves outrageously, treats female lead badly for a long time, hot and cold, "tsundere."

Second lead: "nice guy," gentlemanly, tries very hard to be understanding.

It was that way in Greatest Love, Boys Over Flowers, Reply 1994, The Master's Sun, Moonlight Drawn by Clouds (started out that way), Cinderella and the Four Knights (two arrogant guys, two nice guys), Fated to Love You, You're Beautiful (I've seen so many I can't even remember)...

Even the ones with only one male lead have him behave more or less like that to some degree: Uncontrollably Fond, Madame Antoine, Secret Garden, Coffee Prince, Oh My Ghostess, Emergency Couple, Another Oh Hae Young, Heartstrings (and some of those may be triangles, but I can't even remember the second male leads any more, lol)...

Even Moon lovers: Scarlet Heart started out that way with Wang So's behavior to Hae Soo! (Unusually, gentlemanly "nice guy" second lead Wook became evil, which is fresh...or is it? Maybe it's just an exaggeration of Jung Won's turn to a ever-so-slightly darker side with jealousy.)

It was easy to tell which way it would go: it was a foregone conclusion that it would be the first male lead that would be Na Ri's choice, because it always is. It's set up that way.

The only drama that did it differently that I've seen was Reply 1988. Oh, and maybe Heirs, because for the first time that I have seen, the second male lead behaved worse than the first male lead, lol.

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@Jamie (I assume this is page break Jamie)

I look at the shows entirety not just the characters; the way Jealousy Incarnate translates the typical tropes and storyline is unlike any other dramas I've seen. Yes, the tropes and the story is the same relationship pull, but the show does something different in getting the tropes presented and the how these relationships unfold. They highlight the failures, the shortcomings, the angst, the jealousy and the pettiness of each character which makes the quest for love even greater than the typical drama chase we're all used to. They make a characters flaw it's greatest strength so characters like Hwa-shin gets so much scrutiny for being a flat out jerk, but the jerk one like me has found to root for. The writers have put in so much effort in getting the littlest details to have significance to the story and how this ties in a characters emotions/thoughts that aren't spoken but rather felt.

With shows like BOF, The Greatest Love, MDBC whose main leads get to grovel and wallow for an episode or two, Jealousy Incarnate was adamant in letting its main lead suffer from the get-go. I haven't seen any main lead get utter humiliation in like 75% of the episodes shown; they stayed true to the characters old habits and not making an abrupt change just to justify his qualifications as a suitable OTP. Hwas-shin gets to be a jerk all throughout, but we learn why he's a jerk and how this affects the other characters. It's not wanting Hwa-shin to change completely but rather for him to realize that he doesn't always have to be a jerk.

It's characters like this that gives the show its heart. While we all want a main lead that can fight dragons and evil step mothers, Hwa-shin is the devil's advocate with such passion for his job. He does justice to all the jerks in the world, but we later learn how it's so easy to misinterpret his actions and we have done that for the longest time. It took us 19 episodes to learn that Hwa-shin shows love differently. He's not one that finds a need to even explain it but is willing to take all the punches and scrutiny from everyone else. It's an unconventional character trait to be selfish in such a manner, but it is also respectable to learn the reason why.

The exasperation some feel might be due to the push and pull from Na-ri and her illogicality. But then again, Na-ri and Hwa-shin have never been the sanest main leads. They're both emotionally disengaged and having someone like Jung-won who fits the bill of boyfriend material into the mix of this crazy pair up, is like ordering for a Kale smoothie and chomping down on a double burger and animal style fries. But Jung-won, despite his fate as the second male lead, gets to make us realize that the good guys don't usually deserve the girl. We get to see why Jung-won deserves better and maybe not someone as complicated and complex as Na-ri.

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‘Jealousy Incarnate was adamant in letting its main lead suffer from the get go’ ~ True that!
‘Easy to misinterpret many of his actions and we have all been doing that for the longest time’ ?
Kale smoothie + double burger n stir fries.. ?

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Beautifully said, as usual, Yoyo. (Yup, it's me, PB Jamie.)

I like how you said you are focusing on the overarching plot, and I totally see your point. I tend to focus more on character dynamics and the setup and outcome of the triangle or romance. Ever since realizing it exists, I try to keep the kdrama triangle trope (and who is destined to win) firmly at the forefront of my mind: it has saved me a lot of heartbreak.

I do think Hwa Shin has suffered and wallowed through most of the show more than other male leads; but in most of the other shows I've mentioned (BoF, Greatest Love, etc.), the male leads are every bit as ridiculous, pompous, outrageous--which gives us viewers great pleasure anticipating and enjoying when they begin suffering from love.

I watch all those shows largely for the larger-than-life comedic pettiness, which is even funnier because usually the male leads also don't have much of a sense of humor, especially when it comes to themselves. (JJS is killing this role--he's so good!)

Those typical kdrama rom-coms are kind of a comedic Beauty and the Beast, aren't they? But to me this whole trope brings a larger question into mind: why, exactly, is this tsundere character always the male lead?

Is it because of ideas about dominance and masculinity (and hence, supposedly, attractiveness to women)? Is it supposed to be inherent in women to go for the "alpha male"? Is it because it is an age-old struggle of women to deal with dominant male partners in a patriarchy, and watching this gives us a little imaginary victory?

Why are women always supposed to tame "beastly" men with the power of love? (Which is a really unfortunate and toxic idea, given how real and prevalent misogyny and domestic violence are.)

The idea that Hwa Shin has this gentle, loving side that we want to believe is the "real" him, that contrasts with his cold, mean side seems particularly toxic to me: we know that often women who are abused by their partners live for those sweet moments from their partner, excuse inexcusable behavior, and stay in otherwise untenable situations. But the mean side always comes back...

And Jung Won trying to step up his game by being more controlling to Na Ri? Totally not cool.

I'm getting really heavy for a comment on a rom-com, I know. But it bothers me.

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Bravo, Yoyo..
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

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"Trust the writers. Trust the story."

I was always wrong in predicting and the writer has much much better plot. Yes, I ve become a devoted audience, lol..

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Nari is disappointing. And Hyw won is an awesome bitchy. I really like her charachter. And am rooting for her

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She is really something with that sparkling icy confidence. I do buy it that she is cold hearted, lol.

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I'm sorry. One of my colleagues n myself have given up on this drama. Sigh. The plot just doesn't get me. The more we watch the more frustrated we are with the leads.

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To be honest I don't think Na-ri really had a choice. Her feelings for Hwa-shin were far stronger and he was the only one she wanted to date. It doesn't really matter if Jung-won would have pragmatically been a better choice in partners, continuing to see him after her realisation would be disingenuous.

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Totally agree. I think a lot of people are not understanding the fact that this love triangle is very unbalanced. Nari's love for the two guys is FAR from equal especially by this point in the drama.
The scene with Nari crying apologetically for leaving Jung won shows it well. She is not heartbroken, she just feels sorry. In fact, she is probably sadder and more guilty because she realises that.
They hardly have any chemistry or close connection at this point as well, they aren't even on the same page anymore.
Its probably a bad idea for both her and Jung Won in the long term if she chooses date/marry him (regardless of how nice or kind of caring he is)

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"The scene with Nari crying apologetically for leaving Jung won shows it well. She is not heartbroken, she just feels sorry. In fact, she is probably sadder and more guilty because she realises that."

+1

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Yeah, it's as simple as that. If there's any choice, it would be between Hwa-shin or no one at this point. And because I do genuinely find several traits in Hwa-shin to be those I look for in a partner (despite many many flaws), I can understand why Nari would want to explore a relationship with him. Just like I'm afraid of ending up in a marriage where I love more, I hate the thought of ending up in a marriage where I don't love him as much as he deserves. I'd only end up feeling guilty. As far as I'm concerned, Jung-won and Nari were headed down that path. It needed to end.

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Yup, for all the emphasis on pragmatism and kindness that everyone seems to think JW is showing, it doesn't matter a bit if NR's feelings don't take her to him. At best she's been moved by his kindness but not to the point that she's ever truly been IN love with him. And as unfortunate as it may feel for JW, he could shower her with a thousand roses and gifts and compliments and it still wouldn't move he towards him. Some people just don't respond to that.

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❤❤

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Arrghhh... Finally that day came!! :-) :-) :-) :-)
The episode is reallllyyy great. I was like crazy waiting it aired and prepared my heart not to hope much.
The whole show was about NR's saving her place, hahaha. She dumped JW, confronted HW, and tame the cold looking HS. Her victory depicted her boldness for HS. She cried hard thinking she had to wait longer to get her love.
I fully understand HS had to made the choice he chose since she was too cute in her crying there.
HS's mom, do you like JW's gf? Will you be this easy with her later?
Yess, the moms are true soulmates. May be it was the first leaning on girlfriend that reporter Gye ever did in her life. Bang Ja nim, are you thinking of marrying cheff?
PD Oh, you are my favorite family man. Is it really hard that it should be a b'day wish? Please stay close to our lonely moms when all people on earth are died, umm? Uhm kija, you wanted to marry Gye kija? Hwaiting..
Thank you for recapping the episode.

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How adorable was that transition on Nari’s face - from blank to tears (right before she falls on bed wailing) ?
Elsewhere in the drama too there are instances of GHJ doing the adorable ‘puppy dog that’s about to cry’ face.

I love her!❤

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GHJ is such a great actress! She's a big part of the reason why a continue watching JI even though I have a lot of problems with it. (And JJS, of course xD)

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I was waiting for the recap to vent on how frustrated I am becoming with JI. I love JI, I love every thg abt, how the characters are so realistic, how everythg seems to be so messy. Lol. But I am becoming a bit frustrated with the script. I felt frustrated after this episode. Things that are starting to annoy the heck out of me at this point:
- JW clinginess
- the fight between those 2 ajummas: I was getting frustrated with them in the earlier episodes, but it seemed to resolve. But now it's starting again and Ugh! I hate it. I think at this point it's distracting and annoying
- How Na Ri seems to shift from being a strong, independent character to a weak, indecisive one.
- how the story ended up focusing on those 3 and I think I'm getting tired of their stories. I now get why interesting side characters' stories are important. Like what happened to Ppal Gang, Na Ri's brother and the other one? Why would they make Na Ri supposedly a caring sister if to completely let that side of the story inexistent? And her step- mom and baby brother? I'm just confused as to why they introduced us to them at first just to have them completely disappear from the show.
Right now I'm a bit confused as to the direction this show is taking. But I'll keep watching of course. Now that I vented I fee better and can go back to read the recap and comments ??. Thanks db! Lol.

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Squeeeeee.....that kiss at the end was everything ♥ finally hwashin and nari are together ♥

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yeah~~ and them being official only takes what? 19 epsidoes? hahahha.
That has gotten be the longest time it takes the leads to get together in Kdrama Record! XD

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?

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Haahaha.

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I'm not sure if my line of thinking and belief is on the same page as the majority, but I don't believe that you can truly change when you find someone. To do a 180deg change from egoistic, coldhearted to a sweet person for love just doesn't seem feasible in my humble opinion. Maybe that's why I like JI, it doesn't follow the typical kdrama plot where a bad boy changes when he finds his dream girl.

I like that the writer kept Hwashin's character consistent throughout the drama. Hwashin's personality is not everyone's cup of tea and that's fine, people have their own preferences. Hwashin is someone I would describe as "this jerk is charming" as per Hyewon's words. :)

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The symbolism in this show is so great. I loved the scene where Na-ri is walking out of JW's house and they show the tea mugs, and JW's cup is steaming wayyy more than Na-Ri's. It's just like their feelings for each other, it was so beautiful because every scene is important.

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Oooo.. Nice catch on the steaming cups! Gosh this show is full of such intelligent symbolism. ?

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Yes, yes, yes! I saw the difference in the steam, too! This show is about all the details, and they always were pro Hwa Shin. ;)

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Yes! And I love the cartoon at the end, mimicking the kissing scene... Anyone catch the HS cartoon giving a thumb's up before disappearing? I was LOL at that!

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Yes! ?

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Did you see the lamps during the end credits? First the lamps are pointed towards the beds, then they change and point towards each other.

It's all about the details! :D

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Yeah, I was wondering why they show 2 shots that look the same so I pause and look for differences. That lamp was a nice touch!!

Some fans at the Tieba forum is speculating how in the earlier episode, the leads were talking, standing behind the TV which was showing the movie: When Harry Met Sally... the fans think HS/NR will end up like them, getting marry after 3 months time? <3 <3

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Was that the ending of the first episode? Those are the only episodes I haven't watched more than once, but that sounds familiar.

I'd love it if that were true!

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I noticed that too!!! Ugh, I love all the little visual tricks they stick in there.

They do it with the bathroom signs ALL the time, always focusing in on them to help draw out and emphasize the relationship dynamics in the scene playing out. I love it.

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I think that's why I love this drama so much - details! I will have fun watching the drama all over again and find details that I didn't notice before~

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I did..

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I don't give as much recognition to this show's writting as many of you do. I think JI is working around the same old tropes in a way that make it looks way more inovative than really is. Which is fine, but I think this is what has made a mess of this show.

For instance, I completly dislike how they keep changing the characters for the plot's convinience. The shift to a more comedic tone after ep. 14 was surprising, but it came at the price of JW and HS reverting to kids and acting like Nari was a prize to be won. I get that some of you understood this as being a product of jealousy, but I just can't buy it. They were jealous of each other before and weren't acting so badly; in fact, they managed to convey both their struggles as relatable to us viewers.

Then we had the whole cohabitation thing, which were kind of useless and a waste of screen time. The majority of cohabitation shenanigans were confined to a 30s montage and 1 or 2 scenes that could've happened elsewhere.

Other convenience that has really annoys me is how the show has reverted Hwa Shin back into a jerk after episode 14 so Jung Won would look better. Until episode 15, Hwa Shin was showing great character growth and maturity, but his development basically stopped for the sake of make the triangle more believable. As much as Jung Won is a good guy, he's a rather two dimensional character, while we know multiple sides of Hwa Shin, what makes him closer to us.

And finally we have Hwa Shin acting all cold towards Nari out of respect for Jung Won, which makes absolutly no sense. Like, you've been fighting for this girl for 4 episodes now, but when you finally have her you give her the cold shoulder out of respect for your bro? Really, show? It was a really poor way of delaying the couple's reunion. Episode 20 has a far better conflict between them, so it makes Hwa Shin's behavior more unecessary.

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Agree with most of your post, Luiza Mota--I, too, think it's the same old tropes--but I enjoyed the tragicomedy of Hwa Shin and Jung Won's epic fight, which was simultaneously petty and titanic, lol.

The cohabitation thing was mostly wasted, I think: it had a lot more potential to be uncomfortable and hilarious, but Jung Won was mostly absent from his own house, which made no sense given the situation.

Show made Hwa Shin look bad so Jung Won could look better, and has now turned it around so that Jung Won looks bad so Hwa Shin can look better, sigh.

I am not sure I believe at all that Hwa Shin was behaving coldly to Na Ri out of respect for Jung Won, either. Yes, he might be feeling a bit guilty now that he's won, but I don't believe that would actually stop him.

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Well the thing you guys are not getting is that hwa shin wouldn't have discovered her feelings for na ri if jung won hadn't being in the picture, he wouldn't have realized how much he loves her if jung won hadn't dated her..
It's the way the script was written
The writer just used jung as that reason for hwa shin to discover her love for na ri, which totally i find annoying, jung won was right this whole time about hwa shin loving her because he's dating her..

At this point you all hwari shippers should be commending jung won not condemning him..
And if anybody deserve na ri it's jung won but i won't even support this because na ri is that type of girl that would cheat on jung won even after getting married to him even "she"(nari) does not deserve hwa shin no matter how i look at it, because by getting him means creating war between two best friends..

believe me she can't be trusted, the best way to end this drama is for the boys to find another girls their own soulmates my opinion though...

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Wrong. Hwa Shin was attracted to her from the very beginning. During the first meeting of all of them in Thailand he opens his shirt one more button to let her see his chest. At the same time he tries to look cool and looks away from her. Also he himself doesn't allow himself to be loved, because he thinks he is not worthy of it. He suppressed his feelings and attraction towards Na Ri as long as possible. Until he no longer could lie to himself anymore when he witnessed their kiss.

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?

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@Newbie: Was he attracted to her in Korea? In Thailand, was he attracted to her, or attracted to her (still) being attracted to him? He's a bit of a preening peacock anyway, and of course he remembered how into him she was before. Was he testing to see if she still felt it, because it would make him feel better if she did?

Also, it's not only entirely possible to feel like both the most terrible person AND a superior person, it's likely that if a person feels one way they compensate by also feeling the other way as well. Arrogance and extreme insecurity are flip sides of the same coin. They are both unbalanced feelings or views; one exists to counterbalance the other. Really, both self-loathing and self-worship are hugely egotistical, a way of feeling far more important in the universe than we actually are.

At this point in the drama, as we have less comedy, I'm not finding the characters very lovable, unfortunately. Big red flags over everyone's behavior.

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Okay, I admit I don't recall HS specifically opening an extra button on his shirt in Thailand but I sure remember him being the kind of guy who would do that if any faintly appealing girl was in the room. He was introduced to us as a player and a guy who always has to win and someone who sucks a lot of the oxygen out of the room.

Jamie, I love your points about the two sides of the coin.

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Thanks, bbstl!

"[Hwa Shin] was introduced to us as a player and a guy who always has to win and someone who sucks a lot of the oxygen out of the room."

Yes! There's no denying self-assured or cocky people can be attractive (damn it), but sooner or later all egotistical people are exhausting.

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We can't know, whether he was really attracted to her before his time in Thailand, because we are only given very few flashbacks out of context from this time. #

The story started in Thailand and the button opening moment was the moment they all first met together.
I for one doubt HS tested her, because he didn't look for her reaction, he looked away. Someone else observed he opened his crossed legs, too. Bodylanguage for inviting someone into one's circle. This is stuff done subconciously.

(I doubt they wanted to introduce HS as a player. The bar brawl has a different meaning to me as I already commented elsewhere.)

Hwa Shin is far from being perfect, don't we all know it? He is a complicated, proud, ambitous, human character.
Removing all those layers of excentric behaviour to learn about his real self is what makes this show a lot of fun to watch for me.
Also there is still a lot of comedy for me in it. It's not in your face funny, but I have a hard time remembering when I laughed as loud as I do here watching another show.

We have to agree to disagree again, I fear. This show doesn't work for you, for me it totally does. It happens and I'm happy, that I'm able enjoy the hell out of this little gem.

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Same here newbie. Though there are shows that I loved to bits in these past couple of years, I too don’t remember a drama that made me laugh out aloud so much.

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I completely disagree with you when it comes to "who deserves someone more". It doesnt matter how great a guy/girl is, if the girl/boy doesn't like him/her back, that's it, game over.

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I started this drama liking na ri's character but now i just don't care if she ends up alone..
I just hope the writer wouldn't make jung won be a douche because of his heartbreak..

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Another thing i'm concerned of is their friendship jung won and hwa shin *sigh*

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Yes to that!!

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@Luiza Mota!

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It's quite unfair to hold NaRi solely responsible for this messy triangle and causing the potential fracturing of Hwa Shin/Jung Won friendship. I particularly find it troubling that NaRi is painted as some deceitful jezebel who is not good enough for either guy while you essentially ignored Hwa Shin role in this whole mess (Out of the three, Jung Won was the only blameless one initially).

NaRi entered into a relationship with Jung Won in good faith. After accepting that her unrequited love for Hwa Shin will goes unrequited, she took a chance on Jung Won who was sweet, kind and more importantly interested in her. Once Hwa Shin confessed his feelings and she realized that her feelings for him were still there, she came clean to Jung Won and break it off with both guys (partially out of concern for their friendship). It was Hwa Shin and Jung Won who refused to let it end there. They were the ones who insisted that she made a clear choice and agreed to the co-habitation with the understanding that they'll accept whatever choice she'll make. NaRi didn't string them along or lied or forced them into anything. When she recognized that Hwa Shin was the one she really loves she was honest with Jung Won and made a clean break with him.

Now compared that to Hwa Shin's actions. He was interested in NaRi, but for whatever reasons (pride, stupidly, hubris - take your pick), encouraged her and Jung Won relationship only to get in the middle of it because he couldn't let go of his feelings. He wouldn't accept her breaking thing off, insisting that she have to pick because she must like one more than the other. Where were his concerns for how all of this will affects his friendship with Jung Won? And while Jung Won was blameless for the initial triangle mess, his continued refusal to accept NaRi's final choice is going to negatively impact his relationship with Hwa Shin and that is on him, not NaRi or Hwa Shin.

Frankly, NaRi have acted as honestly and honorably as she could given the messed up circumstances and she seems to have more consideration for Hwa Shin and Jung Won friendship than either of them do. Why should NaRi be held responsible for the guys’ relationship when they themselves appeared more interested in winning the girl than preserving their friendship? Why is she the bad person while Hwa Shin (and increasingly, Jung Won) is not held accountable for their role in this mess?

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The problem I have with this drama is trying to make us believe it's love even when your lover disrespect and yells at you or the fact that one person knows the best thing for the other person without discussing it with the said person.

I actually shipped Nari with Hwashin at the beginning because even when he's being a jerk, he had an endearing side to him and would still always act soft towards Nari most times, for example when Nari kept feeling up his chest or when he would ask Nari to leave only for her to ignore him. He was just too helpless around her and I couldn't help but like the dorky soft hearted jerk.

However this recent episode changed my view about him. The writer turned him into a full out jerk with no soft side and continued to make Nari into a pathetic love sick obsessing fool who kept chasing Hwashin around except for the last minute of the episode when he told her he was holding back. I was even indifferent to their kiss as opposed to their first kiss that shook me.

I thought Nari has already got over her insecurity side only to have it in my face in full blast. The fact that Hwashin kept disrespecting her by giving her the notion that he might woo Hye won just gives the wrong vibes or the way he continued to yell at her like she's a kid. I thought they were supposed to be friends, even if they weren't in love. The fact that Nari loves him doesn't give him the upper hand to start treating her like a lower class person. That's a no no for me. Personally, I think friendship is the best character of love.

I don't really have problem with Jungwon's behaviour in the episode. Of course, he's bound to take it hard after the break-up because he truly loves her and the fact that Nari knows the person she loves more yet still settled for the ridiculous agreement. I wondered what people would have said if Nari character was a guy while Jung won and Hwashin were girls, one is a nice girl while the other, a bitchy girl yet Nari kept stringing both along only to chose Hwashin in the end. Everyone would have said good riddance. No doubt that I found Hwashin more intriguing and wanted him to ended up with Nari not until he started acting like a jerk and treating Nari like some lower class people while Nari herself turned into a love struck idiot who couldn't call him on his bullshit unlike she used to do.

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+1 from me on most points :)

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@Shir and tb_a:

Me, too! :)

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I agree with your comments. I was okay with Jung Won acting all bitter after the break up because it was realistic. I'm more confused with how Hwa Shin behaved. He had no qualms with starting something with Nari even though he knew that she is going out with Jung Won but now he is taking his friend's feelings into consideration? And he seems to be enjoying torturing Nari and seeing her grovel for his attention. I sometimes doubt whether Hwa Shin truly loves Nari. Or he just like the thought of someone desperately in love with him who can stoke his ego.

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Hold on! Hwa Shin had 'no qualms with starting something with Nari even though he knew that she is going out with Jung Won'?!
Did we even watch the same show?! He did everything to restrain himself from acting on his attraction! Did you skip several episodes?

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Tq dramalama

Oh my gooddness Nari ! after having passionate kisses with HS you are still STALKING him - i guess she had many free time to do so besides now as an evening anchor woman she is not taking care of her independant brother anymore.

She should continue instead to be weather girl that is more in line with her work so that HS could comfortably take over JW 's duty whom without failed almost every early morning sending her to the station. Oh forgot now she can drive a car.

The dorm should be a good place for the couple to be dating with ramen.

Miss scriptwriter why are you now making JW character suddenly inconsistant ? that is not fair lady ! no wonder the RATINGS went down !

I am glad GKP is acting very well as JW and hope that in the future he will not be the 2nd lead role.

Good luck NARi with your boyfriend and do take care of his cancer sickness with your endless love and support for his good health as you could also have the same sickness as him.

JW like what JA YOUNG earleir said go find better friends and be a successful business man to help those in need and maybe along the way find new love again - who knows when on you are on your next business class flight .

JW loyalty not to break his promised to sponsor clothes for the anchors hopefully that would help to heal his broken heart.

AS ALWAYS - JW / GKP FIGHTING !

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Secretary CHA where are you HYUNG ?

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Ah, every single episode is getting better. Jealousy Incarnate rocks!

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Jealousy Incarnate rocks in my books too!

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+ 1

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Yeah!! +1 here

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We are all like parents to Nari. We want the best for her. So we try to push our own values to her. We try to define what happiness should be for her. Some people think that means comfort and stability. For some, it's passion and compatability. But in the end, it is up to Nari to decide what her happiness would be like. And as "parents" our duty is to support that decision, not to make the decision for her.
I can make countless arguments for Jungwon. But I can also make countless counterarguments in support of Hwashin. I'm enjoying this drama because I'm team Nari. I trust she knows what brand of happiness and love she wants.
( ^-^)ノ∠※。.:*:・'°☆

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+1

I am seeing my self more as a good sister for precise, lol, who supports and be understanding..

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jungwoon
- he will dress me like a barbie doll
- i will endlessly use his credit card
- i will be sleeping with a manly man (voice,body and hands aRRRghhh)
- he will love me forever

Hwa Shin
- jerk
-arrogant
-self centered
-cancer patient
but what can i do... I LOVE HIM MORE!!!!

0h my life!

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I'd argue Hwa Shin is not self centered. He very selflessly e.g. gave up his anchor job (and it was his for sure) without a second thought to help her. Also I don't believe for a second that he outed his brother's deeds to make a career out of it. On the contrary. I think he outed him to help his brother to not get into deeper sh** and then he had to go to Thailand where he was ignored for several years. We learned that Mr. Oh after all never called him there unlike all the other foreign correspondents.

Also I don't think he is a jerk. He is very, very principled. He doesn't brown-nose anybody, he speaks the truth. Sure, it hurts, it is painful, but he is honest. Actually this is exactly the trait that makes me like him so much.

I will stop here, because the next ep will give more than enough opportunity to discuss this further.

And the cancer patient remark will go uncommented.

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@newbie ”And the cancer remark will go uncommented.” ?
~ Can’t find my facepalm emoji.

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@erika
ive seen many kdrama guys that were jerks but Hwa Shin is not a jerk, arrogant or self centered. are u sure u watch jealousy incarnate and read the subtitles?!!!

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i really love the drama but comments here are annoying and full of hate. you need to grow up guys. its just a kdrama. dont like it dont watch it!

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niloo
totally agree with u. Right From the Start, It Was Obvious that NR and HS are gonna end up together because they are the main leads! not every rich, kind and handsome guy in a drama will get the girl. deal with it!

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"i really love the drama but comments here are annoying and full of hate. "

There it is, with pros and cons. I hope we are here having good thoughts.
:-)

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Hear hear.. ?

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Zeus save me from defensive fans!! I've seen similar comments in the Moon Lovers recaps and didn't say anything then because I don't like making things uncomfortable, but I guess it bothers me enough that I will say something now.

The one who needs to grow up are fans who can't deal with criticisms because only an immature, childish person would label criticisms or any kind of dissenting opinions as "hate". Last I checked, Dramabeans is a general forum that allows a variety of polite opinions; it's not a fan site where only praise and positivity are allow.

I understand feeling protective/ defensive over something you love. I, enjoy this show a lot and fell those urges myself, but I don't see why those who have problems with it shouldn't have their say. Dissenting opinions expressed reasonably can foster thoughtful discussions and add to the drama viewing experience. It's the varied opinions that you can find on Dramabeans that keep the site alive.

So before defensive fans tell the so called "haters" to grow up, you might want to take a look at yourself first and take your own advice. After all, like you said, it's only a drama and if you don't like someone's opinions about it don't read it. Feel free to exercise your ability to scroll right on by. There are plenty of posters who love the show that you can engage with. Let those with different opinions have their say and find their own group of people to engage with. Complaining about the "haters" just makes you come across as petty and childish.

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Actually, this is one of those threads where I don't find any hate at all. All I see are discussions between people with different perspectives and I find it highly enlightening. Because most of them are about relationships and that is something everybody has to tackle in their real life. So, its always good to learn things from different points of view.

Also, the fact that all of us come here and discuss about our collective likes and dislikes about a drama, makes me feel like none of us takes it as a just a kdrama. Dramabeans and beanies take their kdramas very seriously. :)

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Hahaha, I do.. :-)

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I find this thread very entertaining. I found dramabeans since I started watching kdrama recently.. starting with She Was Pretty (which I re-watched several times). Since then, I'm hooked and I fall in love with every first lead actor.

And for Jealousy Incarnate, it focus more to mature audience. I can see that my teenager daughter couldn't understand some scenes/scripts from the drama.

I like HS and NR to be together. They complete each other.

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I agree, realistically, JW should just back away from the train-wreck relationship of HS/Nari. It's too bad he innocently was drawn into it in the first place. Nari is acting like an idiot, but, "love" does that to you. HS is an _SSHOLE. Yes, he's cute, passionate and funny, but, more often than not, he is self centered, callous and unpredictable. When he started being his old A-hole self again after she let him know she broke up w/JW to have him....I was O M G! The alarm bells should have gone off w/in her like crazy, instead she starts that demure (i.e. masochistic) "I'll put up w/anything from you" act. So sad. I would say that most of us have endured that life lesson at least once, but, her 3 year prelude should have been enough of a warning.

The sincere, in-depth, feedback and impressions from all the fans of this drama are a very interesting read on how women really feel about good and bad relationships. This drama has almost garnered a Cosmic response.

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"The sincere, in-depth, feedback and impressions from all the fans of this drama are a very interesting read on how women really feel about good and bad relationships. This drama has almost garnered a Cosmic response."

+1

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Jungwon's cracks are beginning to show. The part where he tries to convince Nari that his sincerity will go for the long run definitely got me but man let it go. I feel his feelings for Nari go way beyond love and rather as a mean to show his rebellion, he may have been nothing but the sweetest guy but it just comes off dull and kind of insincere. To me love is when the rawest of emotions come out, it's unpredictable, it's frustrating, confusing, stressful, passionate and exhilarating. Perhaps that's the poetic way to look at love but I don't see any of that with Jungwon unless Hwasin comes in. Nari and Jungwon literally have nothing that connects them emotionally and they really only ever have sweet moments with each other. There's no drop in facade, it's just lukewarm. I know Jungwon likes her but the quote, "persistence is key" doesn't work here.

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And I wouldn't be so quick to say that Jungwon is the safe path because he's proven himself to be just as flawful as Hwasin. Jungwon might be the "safe" one to go to but if you feel nothing for them then what's the point? Relationships differ for everyone, some are lukewarm and some are roller coasters. Every relationship has potential to go beyond what they initially are but if there's no raw powerful connection that draws you to this person then your relationship is fall down a rabbit hole.

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Then you are HS type guy?
:-) :-)

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I am but I see Jungwon's appeal.

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Wait..., I meant in your reality, whom do you might closely resemble with, Dani. Since you said those thoughts of supporting to HS, I was wondering if you were somebody closer to HS's than JW's trait

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This show continued to entertain me. I feel bad for Jung Won this episode, he could have conducted himself better but I'm willing to to give him a temporary pass on account of acute hurt feelings. It must stings like hell to know that despite being objectively "better" than your rival, the object of your affections still pick the "lesser" guy. SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER. However, I found his actions in the next episode to be more annoying. NaRi have made her choice and he needs to accept it going forwards. I hope the writing won't have him becoming an unreasonable, jealous ass. I like Jung Won and rather not see him go down that direction. END SPOILERS.

As for Hwa Shin, I think his exchanged with Hye Won in the first scene of the episode encapsulates his character. Blunt, tactless and insensitive to other feelings, but it isn't done out of deliberate maliciousness. To Hwa Shin, his comment that Hye Won likes him, but he doesn't like her isn't to belittle her, but rather stating simple facts. Mind you, I certainly think that he can learn a thing or two from Jung Won about emotional intelligence and sensitivity, but I guess I don't have a huge problem with him because the writing doesn't excuse his behaviours (no sad childhood, shitty mother or other trust/abandonment issues). Other characters commented on his shitty ways and his first sister-in-law never fail to snark on his arrogance and various shortcomings. And it looks like he's also learning and will make changes going forward (I hope). In short, they present his character "as is" and let the viewers decide how much they like him. And much like in real life Hwa Shin does have his good points to balance out his defects. So it all comes down to whether individual viewer think that his good points is enough to off-set/out-weight the bad.

On a more shallow note, JJS continues to deliver on the romantic/intimate scenes. I think he is one of the better actor that can do these kind of scenes with the right amount sensuality. They came across as very natural, rather than stiff or awkward. It's nice to actually see moving lips rather than pursed lips or even worse, the back of actors heads because directors have to use camera tricks to fake the kissing.

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Love your thoughts! Couldn't agree more.

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Sooooo.... we're just gonna ignore that fact that Jealousy does not, in fact, equal Love and conflating the two is a pretty unhealthy view of human emotions and relationships? That's what we're doing? That's what's hip these days? Ok, just checking.... carry on.

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I definitely belong to the ancient math formula:
total amount of jealousy = total amount of love

I am not going with people who claim they dont necessarily go together.

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My husband #team JungWon
Me #team Hwa Sin

My husband said na ri loosing a great man, she make a wrong decision...and my husband cant enjoy ep 20 again..lol.

To me..first love still alive ;p..."u never know how much u love someone until u watch them with (love) someone else"

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That’s great your hubby enjoys Kdramas too. Of course you guys shouldn’t be on the same team! Where’s the fun in that? ? ☺

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Does your husband watch all the episodes? I think if one watch and rewatch all the episodes, it's hard not to feel happy for HS and NR. I rewatched some of the episodes again last nite and HS problem is with his mouth but his heart and intention is actually in the right place.

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" HS problem is with his mouth but his heart and intention is actually in the right place."

:-) :-) :-) :-)
My fave one-sentence-description ever, Y..

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"”u never know how much u love someone until u watch them with (love) someone else”

:-) measument tool

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Yes,,he watch all eps with me?

I think a man think is differently than a woman, they following logical, they think single n simple way. Maybe it is a reason. For my hubby 3 years nari spending time for waiting hwa sin is enough to cut her feeling after she meet jung won who treat her with lovly, kind, honest and gentle and d most important is jung won love na ri. Is not too bad to start a relationship with jung won and forgetting hs.

But we know waiting, patience is a power ( skill ) of the womans ...lol. And for a woman waiting for d one special in our heart is valuable even its takes a long time.

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I'm not really shipping anyone but it's strange that some people till the end of drama still think JW has a chance to be with NR! even before the show starts i knew who will end u with whom and i'm not that clever! Maybe I've watched too many kdramas?! :)

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It some times beyond my intelligence. :-)

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Of course we know who will end up with who till d end ?...but some people expect a writter can make a 'special' storyline cause there is a reality in d world u can not get what u waiting for.

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Does anyone know the intense dubstep/electronica song played during JW's sulky scene?

Thanks! :)

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honestly this episode made me so annoyed lol

COMEONNN jung won?! how can anyone ever give up a guy like jong won??

and i hated the fact how half this episode nari was like beginning hwa shing to take her back. like i understood what he was trying to do, but i dont get what is happening in this girl's head! like she'd rather be with the guy who she has to pester and get some love out of, than with a guy who showers her with love??!!

AND before this whole move in live in thing, she herself kept saying she wont choose any of them, that she basically cheated on JW and she rather end up dieing alone. so what is choosing hwa shin and dating hwa shin all about now?!

i dont get it lol

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begging**

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The thing I dont like about this episode is the fact that nari showed practically no character development by begging HS to take her back until he eventually did.Imagine if he didn't. It would mean she would of not learnt anything from this whole messy situation like independence or learning to stand up for herself or being or decisive

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The symbolism is what makes this drama so good. I just can't stop watching this show. <3

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I wanted Jung-Won to get the girl, in behalf of all nice guys in the world. Of course he lost, and I gave up on this show after that. I realized that this is dramaland; can't really expect it to challenge real-world stereotypes about girls going for the bad boys.

Jung-Won never had a chance. Did he become petty and demeaning during the break-up? Of course he did. He's human too, and his heart is breaking realizing that after doing everything right, he's still not the one. He even gave in on Na-Ri's ridiculous cohabitation scheme to allow her to make a decision on the merits, only to find out none of his merits matter in the end.

And Na-Ri asking Jung-Won to lighten her burden, to make her feel less guilty? So cruel.

Though I won't know since I gave up on the show after this episode, I hope Jung-Won never becomes okay with Na-Ri picking Hwa-Shin, and Hwa-Shin betraying him. While he may love Na-Ri, he'll get over it, but he definitely doesn't need a disloyal jerk of a friend like Hwa-Shin.

So, that's it for you and me, Jealousy Incarnate. I had hoped for better, but you disappointed me. If you want to make it up to me, have Na-Ri and hwa-Shin live miserably, or maybe let's have a relapse of Hwa-Shin's cancer?

No dice? Alrighty then.

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