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Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 3

The story heats up and there’s a lot more of everything in Episode 3—more blood, more intrigue, more confused feelings, and more all-around action. The intensity gets dialed up a notch, too, with tension built into many of the interactions today. And while I still find my interest mostly in the main three characters, I’m ready now to enjoy branching off with the lesser princes and side relationships too. I know the bromance is fanservice, but isn’t the definition of fanservice that I don’t care about that?

 
EPISODE 3 RECAP

Following the assassination attempt at the palace and the chase through the forest, fourth prince Wang So faces off against his half-brother (and eighth prince) Wook, holding Hae Su in a threatening grip—she caused him to miss out on vital information about the assassins, and he’s furious.

Wook keeps his cool and says that Su has nothing to do with this matter. She asks So to believe that she merely lost her way, but he says darkly that he has no reason to, since he doesn’t know her.

Wook slowly drops his sword to the ground, and reasons that they can find proof of Su’s guilt once the soldiers arrive. Until they do, Wook asks So to let her go.

So grudgingly lowers his sword and shoves Su aside, and she hurries to Wook’s side. Wook asks in concern whether she’s okay.

Su stammers that people were killed nearby, and that they were dressed like the dead assassin, wearing similar demon costumes. The princes exchange alarmed looks.

At the palace, Crown Prince Mu is feeling regret, thinking that he shouldn’t have had So take his place in the ceremony. Astronomer Choi tells him that So took this opportunity for himself, so it’s not something Mu should feel guilty about. But Mu replies that using his younger brother’s desperation for his own benefit is a sin. Aw, I like you. You seem nice.

In the forest, So and Wook lead soldiers to the spot where Su saw the assassins die—only, now the area’s empty. So asks suspiciously how dead bodies could have disappeared and demands answers of Su that she doesn’t have, such as who the culprit was. At least Wook finds clues in the surroundings—blood spatters and sword cuts—and he deduces that the same person who mobilized the assassins also killed them.

Now So turns his frustration on Wook for killing their last witness, although Wook holds firm and says he couldn’t let harm come to Su. He suggests taking care of So’s injured arm, but So flings off his hand, shoots a dark glance at Su, and stalks off.

Su slumps to the ground, sapped of energy, and then starts to cry. Wook looks increasingly uncomfortable at her tears, while she sobs that So is always threatening to kill her when all she wanted to do was return what he dropped (the hairpin he’d bought his mother).

Wook offers a meager pat on the shoulder, but Su hilariously yanks him down by the cloak, worrying what will happen to her. Wook finds her cute in that moment and holds her closer, soothingly.

The scheming Queen Sinmyeongsunseong fumes in her bath, thinking of her failed plot to get rid of Crown Prince Mu. She blames So for ruining everything, and tells her son, third prince Yo, that he was supposed to be named crown prince today.

Yo informs his mother that he took care of the loose ends, and that none of the conspirators are alive. The queen says that at least King Taejo won’t be attempting any abdications for the near future; she’ll find some satisfaction in that.

Yo suspects that Astronomer Choi has a hand in this, and possibly has a hidden connection to So. The queen realizes So was indeed learning martial arts, but is puzzled as to how—it’s not something his adopted family, the Kang clan, would have enabled.

The queen declares that they must find out who So has been meeting, and thinks that if Astronomer Choi is involved, so might be the king. Yo says that their spy in Shinju has reported that nobody ever came to see So.

The queen advises Yo to be even more vigilant, so that they can uncover So’s motivations—then they’ll be able to get rid of him, or make him loyal to their side. “Do not forget,” she tells Yo. “Goryeo must belong to my son.” (But So is your son too…)

Back at Wook’s home, So regards the gash in his arm, and flinches when Princess Yeonhwa starts to tend to it, despite his initial protest. She asks when he’ll leave Shinju and come live in the capital like the other princes. Despite the fact that this is exactly what he’s fighting to do at the moment, So replies that he’s not like the others, and that he’s comfortable living his life fighting mountain animals.

Princess Yeonhwa smiles, saying that he’s gotten better at hiding his true feelings. She’s got him there.

Then she leans closer to wipe his face gently, and he tenses. There’s definitely something here, and I get the sense that the interest is greater on her end, though he doesn’t exactly refuse it. (Meanwhile, I have to tell myself, Historical accuracy, blah blah blah, since she’s his half-sister and all. Also the mother of his children! Maybe I’ll pretend there’s a convenient birth secret involved that history never knew about.)

So abruptly stands up, calling an end to their momentary closeness. But he does tell her, “I did wonder what kind of woman you grew up to be.”

Su’s neck cut from the assassin’s sword has Lady Hae newly worried, and she asks why Su went into the forest in the first place. Wook surreptitiously shakes his head at Su, so she just says she lost her way. Wook says that the assassin had been out for Crown Prince Mu’s life, so they should just be glad that Su is safe, and Su agrees wholeheartedly, declaring herself exceedingly lucky. She goes so cutely overboard that Wook can’t hide a smile.

After sending Su off to rest, Lady Hae thanks her husband for his help, apologizing for always adding to his burdens. Wook assures his wife that he’s never thought of Su as a burden, even adding that he finds her delightful.

That wording takes her aback, but he explains that theirs is a serious, heavy household, and people are always telling him of their troubles. “But Su is not like that,” he says. “She struggles to do everything on her own strength, and I find that appearance delightful. I feel like I can breathe. And it makes me look forward to seeing her.”

He seems so pleased that Lady Hae is startled, but all she can do is force a smile and say that she’s thankful that he cares for Su.

On her way back to her room, Su freezes to see So sitting out in the courtyard, then tries to hurry past him. He orders her to stop, then shoots one look at the maid to get her to leave them alone.

Su starts to blabber nervously, insisting that she didn’t see anything else in the woods, and that she already told him everything. So advances on her slowly, grabbing her face and ordering her to remember more.

Wook steps in shoves So’s hand away from Su with difficulty, but as Su falls back, she remembers one more detail: The assassins’ leader was wearing fur.

Instantly, So recalls that Yo had worn fur during the ritual ceremony, and it looks like Wook comes to the same conclusion. So orders her to erase what she saw in the woods, and Wook concurs, for her own safety.

Su excuses herself with a surly look at So, but he stops her departure to warns her not to show herself before him again.

At that, Su faces him and asks, “What did I do wrong?” With growing indignation, she points out that he’s the one who threatened to kill her: “Am I supposed to just do nothing? I should do whatever I can to live, and you’re telling me to die like a dog?”

She calls after him, “Is it a crime to want to live?” So clenches his jaw, but leaves without a word. Su watches him go, then blurts, “That jerk!” Ha.

Wook sees Su to her room and advises her to sleep with the candles lit, in case her ordeal gives her nightmares. She asks after his condition, since he killed someone because of her; she worries that he might suffer post-traumatic stress or nightmares.

Wook is surprised that she’d ask, and tells her that it wouldn’t do for him to struggle after every time this happened. She gapes, asking if he’s killed before, then cuts herself off at hearing the tactless question. He answers anyway, explaining that he was eleven when he first took a life, protecting his mother and sister.

“But I didn’t have nightmares,” he says. “I protected my family with my own hands, which made me happy. I was proud.” Tellingly, he almost struggles to say the words, even as he adds that a prince ought to be able to handle that much.

“But you keep remembering,” Su says. “You can’t forget, so how can the heart be easy? It’s obvious you’re suppressing it.”

He calls that a weight he must endure. Brightening, Su tells him she won’t be clingy, so he needn’t worry—she won’t add to his burden, so he can live a little more lightly. She says cheerfully, “So you don’t have to worry about me! I can take care of myself.”

He laughs that in place of her lost memory, she’s found blustery overconfidence. Wook also tries to sound out the strange word she’d used, asking what “stress” is. Heh, another word slip.

King Taejo discusses the attempted assassination with So, Crown Prince Mu, and his astronomer. The bold act suggests a mighty power, and their next step is to find clues that may lead them to the culprit.

The king asks So after his injury, and it’s rather heartbreaking to see how startled So is at the small show of concern. He replies that it was not serious, and he tended to it.

The king asks why So would take Mu’s place in the ceremony, risking his own life. So answers that fifteen years ago, Mu saved his life—so now, he intends to stay in the city while ferreting out the perpetrator.

The king gives his approval, and instructs Astronomer Choi to inform the Shinju family that So’s return will be delayed. It takes a lot for So to tamp down his happy reaction, but it’s there, just a flicker of it. Yay!

The princes gather again, and talk turns to So’s unexpected martial arts skills. Third prince Yo scoffs that he must have picked it up from battling wild animals, but fourteenth prince Jung thinks that his level of skill indicates proper teaching. Yo counters that So’s adoptive family would never have allowed it when they’re essentially holding him hostage—he’s important politically as a prince, but they’d hardly encourage empowering him when they’d rather have him under their thumb.

Wook asks Yo if he chased any of the culprits last night, watching carefully as Yo replies that he did, but took the wrong path. Both princes are careful with their words as Wook searches for any slips and Yo makes sure he doesn’t make any.

The king happens by and stops to greet his sons, but frowns to see the bruise on tenth prince Eun’s face. When Eun nervously mentions a fight, the king is outraged—who would dare lay a hand on royalty?

The next thing we know, Su is pacing anxiously at home, awaiting the king’s punishment. She alternates between imagining the worst, like getting her limbs cut off, and assuring herself that nothing bad will happen.

Eun comes galloping in, chipper as can be, and announces that his father took one look at his face and ordered the offender flogged. Su narrows her eyes, supposing he left out all mention of his own wrongdoing, and he retorts that he’s not so small-minded as that. He explains how he finagled forgiveness out of the king—by asking how if a girl who hit a prince were to be punished, what happens to the prince who got hit by a girl?

I suppose it’s an effective argument in such patriarchal times, and Eun puffs up in pride at coming up with a solution. Su can only manage a sarcastic thanks and turns to leave.

Eun stops her, intent on saying something else, only to mumble and fidget, suddenly shy. Su registers his nervous posture and stalling and wonders, “Could it be… that he’s fallen for me? You’re the first woman to treat me like this, that sort of thing?”

Eun finally starts to speak, and says exactly those lines: “You’re the first woman to treat me like that.” Su marvels at the longevity of that pick-up line, HA.

Eun adds that it was the first time he was able to fight freely, since everyone always just let him hit them—it was never a proper fight. “It was fun,” he declares. Su wryly tells him to come by when he wants to fight, and he asks excitedly if that means he can visit whenever he wants. She retorts that it’s the least she can do, and he calls after her, “Today’s our first day!” Ha, some things never change.

In the city, thirteenth prince Baek-ah draws scenes of the city from a tavern, then hears a commotion as people run to watch a fight. Not one to miss out, he heads over to get a look.

Baek-ah stands at the edge of the crowd drawing while two men fight, and the younger fighter whirls and kicks with skill, knocking out his older opponent. Aha, it’s Prince Jung, and he roars in victory… just as the two brothers lock eyes.

Jung’s not supposed to be out of the palace in street garb (or fighting, at that) and pesters Baek-ah to let this go, making ineffectual grabs for the sketchbook containing pictures of his fight. He tries bargaining first, and then switches to threats of exposing Baek-ah too.

Baek-ah argues that his trip is approved, then kicks Jung away. Jung fakes grave pain to draw his brother closer, then runs off floating with Baek-ah’s sketchbook.

Baek-ah pays a visit to Lady Hae, and they reminisce on the good old days, having been quite close. Baek-ah says he blames Wook for not giving his wife more of his heart, while Lady Hae chides him for his familiar address (he uses a term meaning noona). He counters that he knew her as noona before she became his sister-in-law.

Baek-ah sees Su across the yard, where she’s practicing her best sageuk speech. Okay, that’s cute. They laugh, and Baek-ah notes how completely Su has changed.

Lady Hae agrees, though she’s pleased with how much more thoughtful Su is lately. Baek-ah balks when Lady Hae says he and Su are similar, but she explains that they’re both free at heart, say unexpected things, like fun things, and hate to lose.

She adds that Baek-ah’s real noona is Su, not herself. He tells her not to say that, his tone turning slightly serious as he adds, “You know how I feel about you.”

So and Crown Prince Mu start their investigation with an examination of the dead assassin corpses. They find something alarming in one mouth and confirm that the rest are the same: The tongues have been cut out.

They can’t imagine who would cut out their own tongue as a show of fealty, and mull over the mystery. Then Astronomer Choi speculates that it’s possible that the assassins hadn’t cut out their tongues for this purpose, but were already lacking them.

Apparently, there are renounced monks who get their tongues cut out for their sin, and as Choi explains this, So envisions Yo carrying it out.

There aren’t people who could harbor so many denounced monks without drawing notice, and Mu orders Astronomer Choi to look into who donated to temples.

The next thing we know, So is charging at Yo and accusing him of being the mastermind. Yo challenges him to show proof, and So reminds him that he killed all his assassins. Yo doesn’t betray much when he’s accused, but when So asks if their mother is behind this, his face freezes and he can’t quite pull off the indifferent act. But So seems to have his answer.

Su finds Lady Hae preparing clothing and goods to be sent along as donations to the village. Wook customarily delivers them on his own, but Su suggests that Lady Hae accompany him and take the opportunity to spend the day with him. Lady Hae has never thought to do so, but Su urges her, and offers to make her up prettily for the occasion.

As Su makes up Lady Hae’s face, she tells her of a “dream” she had where she sold cosmetics. We see that she’s talking of her modern-day life, when she worked for a cosmetics company, and Su explains that she felt important and needed when helping her friend look her best.

But then, her friend went and met her boyfriend behind her back. Su sighs about the betrayal, and how they’d stolen everything from her, and still she couldn’t manage to confront them properly about it.

Lady Hae advises her to quickly forget nightmares like that, and Su muses, “Who knows, maybe it was that side that was the bad dream.” When she finishes, she holds up the mirror, and Lady Hae is astonished at her transformation—her formerly pale, wan face looks blooming and healthy.

It’s a family affair in the village, as Su and Lady Hae join Prince Wook in the alms-giving. Su hands out treats to the children, then chases down a boy who takes one from someone else and scolds him for his behavior. She sees Wook smiling at her and waves, and without thinking he waves back, before catching himself and awkwardly swatting at the air instead. Oh, you.

A bit later, Wook joins Su at the apothecary, surprised at her familiarity with medicinal herbs. She says she’s used them to make soap that brightens and beautifies the skin and offers to make some for his wife.

He receives medicine for Lady Hae, and also a salve for Su’s cut. She does such a poor job at dressing her neck cut that Wook takes over, sitting close and brushing her hair aside.

There’s a loaded moment as they stare at each other, and another when he leans close to dab at her neck. Su grows shy and quiet, sitting there looking like she’s doing her best to contain her feelings.

Lady Hae is weak and asleep by the time they arrive home, and Wook carries her to bed while Su helps settle her in. As they smooth the blankets over her, Wook’s and Su’s hands touch—just briefly, just their pinky fingers, but it makes them freeze in awareness. Su is the first to pull back, and she quickly hurries out.

Wook finishes tucking his wife into bed and watches her sleep, but his gaze turns toward the door, after Su.

Su’s rattled at the touch, and heads to the temple to pray at Lady Hae’s tower of stones. She prays to her mother not to cry over her, because she’s doing well, and then admits, “My heart is wavering. I tell myself I shouldn’t, but… it makes me tremble.”

The next day, So find out that a group of renounced monks are hidden away at a temple hideout, and races there. Mu also makes his way with soldiers in tow, but So arrives way ahead of the rest, finding the temple atop a steep, rocky hillside.

Inside, the rundown place seems abandoned, but we’re given the sensation that there are unseen eyes on him. So closes his eyes and concentrates.

Suddenly, a man flies at him. So reacts swiftly, knocking aside the incoming dagger with his sword, whirling to avoid being impaled by a spear. He quickly cuts down the two men who come at him, but in seconds he’s surrounded by more.

So asks for their leader, and when he gets no response, wonders if there’s nobody here capable of speech. One man grunts and charges him, but So slashes his throat readily, and demands to know who’s in charge.

Then a full-scale swordfight breaks out, and So holds his own easily in a crowd of at least twenty. The scene grows bloodier and bloodier, and So displays remarkable dexterity with both the long sword and short dagger. Definitely not something you just pick up while fighting wolves. So is so brutal and efficient that in no time, the last man falls. Damn, that was like a Tarantino movie.

Bodies litter the ground, with So the last one standing. Suddenly, the doors blow off a nearby building and a monk steps out, bowing to So.

So asks if he is the one responsible here, and the monk replies that these men had their tongues ripped in punishment for their grave sins; he looked after them. So replies, “Then all I have to do is get rid of you.” The monk asks who he’s doing this for, then adds meaningfully, “Does your mother know?”

So smiles dangerously, noting that this is a place of no speech, yet there’s someone here with a lot of words. He raises his sword, hardens his face, and strikes.

The monk deflects his first blow, but So takes him down with a series of quick slashes, and then a blade through the gut. As the man gurgles, So leans in to say, “You’ve lived mooching off the queen, so die for her sake.”

He walks out and staggers away, covered in blood, while the temple burns behind him. When Mu and his soldiers arrive, the building is ablaze. Mu wonders what could have happened and orders his men to retrieve any survivors.

That night, Queen Sinmyeongsunseong awakens in bed as a figure approaches—So, carrying the sword that’s still dripping blood. She shrinks back as he steps forward out of the shadows and smiles.

 
COMMENTS

Okay, so all that blood and killing was a little much, but I don’t suppose I mind because I felt the energy really tick up when So went wild on those monk-assassins. I thought he’d need to keep some alive for questioning (lack of tongues notwithstanding) so I wasn’t expecting full-on slaughter, but it was cool in the way that Tarantino is cool; the deaths are somewhat stylized and mostly there to highlight how badass So is.

Then if that weren’t enough of a statement, we got that sunset moment with So strutting out of there like a mofo, with the temple burning behind him. It was a strong moment, beautifully shot, and had an edge that I really liked. I’m not actually sure I can count on the show to be that dark going forward, since it isn’t that on the whole (plus I just know Episode 4 will disappoint me just because there’s no way he kills his mother and that’s what I really want)—but I’ll take the bits of darkness when I can get ’em.

Character-wise, I was happy with today’s developments, giving us either movement or insight about several different relationships: So and Su, naturally, as well as Su and Wook, but also So and the princess (as unsettling as I find it), and young Baek-ah and his noona dynamic with Lady Hae. I can’t tell yet whether Baek-ah’s feelings are romantic or protective in a brotherly way, or maybe it’s a lot of things mixed up in one, but I’m glad for Lady Hae’s sake that someone clearly loves her and thinks that her husband should pay her more attention.

I agree with that sentiment in the sense that Wook is a decent guy (I hope?) who respects his wife and cares for her, and also because my modern sensibilities are apparently still old-fashioned in their view of monogamy and fidelity. And even if Wook isn’t too conflicted (he appears to be somewhat conflicted), it ought to be a moral dilemma for Su, whose sensibilities are as modern as mine.

Of course, then you have chemistry futzing with everything and confusing the matter, since theirs is fairly sizzling, in a way that conveys more sexual tension than, say, the hero and heroine. (Theirs is the more conventional opposites-attract, love-hate, contentions dynamic—more external fireworks, but much less repression.) Not that either is better than the other; with all these princes hovering around, I’m sure we’re gonna be able to enjoy allllll of the chemistries.

The reception to this drama has been a titch cooler than I’d anticipated, and I don’t think this show is as bad as the worst of its criticism, although perhaps there are grains of truth in there. I find it entertaining and engaging (now that the heavy introductions are out of the way), though admittedly I’m still waiting for something fresh or exciting to come from the story, and I wonder if I’ll be waiting for ages. Perhaps I’ll be better served by not expecting freshness, and being fine with it as a beautifully produced, gorgeously shot version of a show I’ve seen many times before.

One thing I noticed particularly in this episode was that there was a lot of style in action; the director’s flair was on full display, and when it works, it can be exciting and thrilling. However, that didn’t preclude some jumpy narrative cuts, and moments of confusion when I didn’t register that we’d switched scenes, or wasn’t sure if something was a legitimate scene or a flashback/fantasy moment because the scene change had been so abrupt. That can be a directorial flaw but I’d also put it at the writer’s hands, since it’s her job to structure scenes so that the logic flows fluidly. Trust me, I’m paying a heckuva lot of attention to details with multiple rewinds, and if I have trouble figuring out the flow, it’s no longer my problem. Style isn’t solely good or solely bad—too little makes for ugly dramas, and too much can feel empty—but as long as it comes backed up with some meat, I’m all about it. Today it worked well (the previous episodes were a little less successful at matching content to the style, I thought), and I hope the drama keeps it up as we continue.

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very good episode i dont understand the hate this drama is getting because i am so into it.

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Me neither. People want it to fail, because it was hyped as the next best thing. I have seen worse acting in other Korean dramas than this. At first I paused at how less serious this drama has been compared to the original, but by episode 3, I was quite happy with it. Because it's like watching a completely different story.

Before I am accused as an oppalogist, I can attest truthfully that I'm far from being a fan of anyone in the cast..really far..lol.

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I think when you have a negative attitude towards a show then the show needs to be extraordinary to overcome your bias. Similarly if you have a positive outlook, then the show can be average and you will still love it.

Say moonlight - (I'm using it for comparison bec same time, same genre. pls dont kill me)

I know i am in a teeny-tiny minority that did not like the show. it has its warm moments but overall I could not stick to it. If I want to I can detail a long list of things i find wrong with it but if you go to the recap thread, you will be hard pressed to find one criticism.

The whole mood leading up to the show was positive and its a light, breezy show and everyone loves it easily. SC on the other hand was inundated with doubts - comparison with old show, IU, baekhyun, pretty boys are just fanservice, Preproduced UF just tanked etc etc. People tore into it without giving it a chance.

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I agree with you. I didn't want to mention the other drama, for fear its fans will get upset. But that drama's rating is benefiting a lot from the underdog bounce. Some people are going out of their way to praise it, because it wasn't expected to beat SC:R.

I preferred SC:R's first 3 episodes, compared to the premiere of MDBC, which I found underwhelming. At the end of the day, both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's a shame that SC:R did not have a well edited first episode, and ended up leaving a negative impression, on those expecting a grander scale.

If anything I would say the epic trailer for SC:R is what is causing them harm, because it created such a huge hype that they haven't been able to meet. People are expecting the epic scale of a Chinese Historical like Nirvana in Fire or the upcoming Tribes and Empires: Storm of Prophecy, but instead they got a typical Kdrama Saguek.

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tbh I don't think too much about it,
Moonlight deliver their premise easily and executed good, a smooth run and smooth episode, people appreciate that it down to the matter of taste to continue warching or not ,
on the other hand
SC has many technical difficulty that showing what they lacked the most,
the close up shot don't do good with all of the cast, the ost is unfitting, Hae Soo long shocked shot is too many , not to mention that they showcased their prince as childlike too much, and many thing just happen to show their weakness in the 1st watch,

Rather than preconception, I find the viewer just like/prefer a well executed drama that sets their foundation right at the 1st week so they knew what to expect than a promise that the drama will do better the next week.

Just my opinion though since ep 2 have a higher viewer rating which mean people give it a chance after ep 1.

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@Sancheezy

I wasn't speaking about the ratings at all. I have accepted that everything i like is basically going to tank in the ratings.

What i am talking about is the online criticism. And 'criticism' is a mild mild word for what people are writing. No one said that the show is perfect. Name one that is.

But it is an engaging drama. The hate is just vicious. And if you want to look at ratings then - when the word of mouth is so harsh (without reason), less and less people want to check it out later.

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@bipps
but good rating and acceptance also can back up the comment,

the vicious comment for this drama get overboard because not many people care enough for the show to back it up and defended it, even the exo comment actually get good response when the fans replied with acceptance or hijacked the drama comment with more normal comment,
SC drama just didn't grab the viewer and I think it's pretty normal reception for the 1st week,
IU, exo, and other have big fanbase but if they didn't do much, then isn't that mean they also acknowledge the drama shortcoming?

even moonlight get many criticism for kim yoo jong looked and the actor make- up but the viewer of the drama defend it and gave overall good impression on the 1st week, many people actually want reply çurse to happen and want to jump the hateboard but can't because not much to criticize there.

I don't get the idea that certain drama destines to fail because people demanded it to fail and any of that drama don't have the weak link that contribute to their failed reception.
Maybe it's not the people, maybe it's the drama or maybe it's both but the conspiracy theory is too much.

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@bips99- Even the a coordinated hate campaign couldn't have taken down Scarlet Heart if it had actually delivered on its hype and not had some glaring flaws in episode 1 - I enjoy it so far, and even I can admit that.

Let's just be happy that we have a large and passionate pool of commenters to discuss and appreciate the drama with right here, instead of talking about why other dramas have higher ratings. There's plenty to unpack in SH itself without that.

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The hype was all self-generated. It's no one's fault but themselves. I'm pretty sure the publicity team is aware about the public's dislike of IU, that there is a prejudice among actor-dols, that the original is untouchable, etc. And yet... they settled with star-casting, released character stills on a regular basis monthsss before it even premiered. Two weeks before its first airing they were basically releasing material everyday (motion posters, clips, BTS, etc.). There was also a Cosmopolitan cover and the director proclaiming IU as an acting prodigy. And the mediaplay on it being NBC Universal's first ever production in Asia, how it sold for a record-breaking amount in China, its simultaneous showings. Can you really blame the public to get turned-off? Can you really blame the public to expect so much from it? The PR could have been more low-key.

And say what you want about "Moonlight" and it benefiting from its underdog status but KBS did learn their lesson on selling a drama after what happened with Uncontrollably Fond. They let the hype on the casting and the webtoon create buzz on its own. They sold it as a youth sageuk, not the next DOTS, and it worked.

These comments really are bordering on conspiracy and what-not, I even encountered someone in a thread basically saying KBS bought the real-time ratings of "Moonlight". Like, what?! It's just another drama at the end of the day...

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Nowhere I'm talking about conspiracies or even the buying of ratings (did someone really suggest that? crazy)

... I'm talking about the general sentiment leading up to a drama and the way it colors your opinion about it irrespective of the quality of the show. Whether the sentiment is a product of hype or of scandalous actors. All I'm saying that the negativity surrounding the show is harming it disproportionately. The show has its flaws but nowhere is it a terrible/bore/meh! or whatever people are calling it today.

As for the online criticism, i don't know enough about korean entertainment to call it a concentrated campaign but the hate is there and it is completely without any correlation to the actual content of the show

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@Amy

True that there was a lot of media hype, but idk if it was all self-generated considering that it had already captured international interest with the cast, the OST singers, the YG and Universal investment, the selling of episodes to China, etc. Besides, I think what's been interesting about the ratings was that they were low from the beginning, the Pilot itself. Which means people didn't watch it, get turned off by the low quality despite the hype, and reject it. They never even gave it a try. It would have made much more sense if it played out like UF, where there was all the pre-production hype, and the ratings were initially high, but immediately fell as soon as a better show came about.

Besides, again, their distribution model is different. SH has simultaneous airings in various countries, and it's been trending in all those countries. It is, in fact, even trending in Korea, because the most viewed video clips on Naver are currently 50% just SH in the top 20. People are turned off it in comparison to the Chinese adaptation, but it has had a great reception in China and over 300 million views already or something. Of course it would be great to have an amazing domestic reception and they'd care most about the home market, but I don't think this reception actually affects the drama by much. And since they've taken cognizance of the criticisms and are re-editing (although I just don't see how half the editing decisions passed muster the first time, even someone not familiar with film-making can immediately tell what's wrong in the episodes), hopefully it shall do better. It's already improved by leaps and bounds from the 1st to the 3rd episode.

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I don't get the hate either...So far, so good. It ain't anything like the original version~ish ; but it's GOOD DIFFERENT.
Is it because of IU's controversial song Twenty years old something? where she gets the hate from everyone everywhere? Not really sure.. and I also agree on the close-up; super long one shot at one's face! Ughhhh!

All these close ups make me feel like I'm watching sappy daily local dramas... which ugh... stop closing in on people's face all the time! Once is enough!

The one and only close-up that I found most amazingly, emotionally (add every other words that synced with awesome) was Moon Geun Yung's close-up from Cinderella Unni. The scene where she ran away from being taken to her new step-dad's house... the earlier episodes.

This drama though... my eyes hurt...
On the bright side, kang ha neul. On the brighter side, lee jun ki. which... well, brightens up my day...

:D

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@Zoe

"It is, in fact, even trending in Korea, because the most viewed video clips on Naver are currently 50% just SH in the top 20."

Now that's just plain weird because a recent scene in Moonlight had over 700k+ views and it wasn't even listed in the most viewed video clip on Naver despite it having more views than any current (ep3) SH video... Hmmm

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@Alin

Well, I'm not sure about that since it wasn't in the listing and I hardly know how a scene makes the cut (although it would be a bit too far-fetched to imagine that SBS is now buying the media portal, that's a bit like the conspiracy theories Amy was talking about.) It's been replaced by trending cuts from W and Jealousy Incarnate anyway.

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"Moonlight" vids don't come out in the TOP 100 ranking on Naver because its geolocked to Korea only. KBS doesn't make it available overseas because they have KBS World. If you have VPN proxy, you'll see that "Moonlight" is as popular than Scarlet. And internet comments, views and likes are not even a fair assessment of popularity or likability. Because the ajhummas and the ajhussis who make the bulk of the television viewing public don't even care about the internet. The younger generation, fewer and more prone to watching online, are the ones making a fuss on Scarlet on the web.

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@Sandy

Since “Moonlight” is as popular than Scarlet on the internet, I guess it's fair to say that the younger generation who are more prone to watching online are the ones making a similar fuss on Moonlight on the web.

And since internet comments, views and likes are not even a fair assessment of popularity or likability and the ajhummas and the ajhussis who make the bulk of the television viewing public don’t even care about the internet, the notion that "Moonlight' was the underdog was a fallacy.

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I'm so so sick of the internet noises. Make this thread hate free and enjoy the show for what is it. This is just the first week for heaven's sake.

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Being a fan of the show, I would have expected you to comment on the content of its episode rather than analyzing why the other drama gets praise and better ratings... oh, well.

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Again, I used moonlight as a comparison because technically it is a competitor to the show in all respects. And i was commenting on the show as to how the good points of the show are being brushed aside. And the response was to a question someone posted wondering why a good show is getting hated on. So i put forward my theory. It may be wrong but its still my opinion. I'm not sure how you got the idea that I'm dissing your show.

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yeah, but can we avoid talk about other dramas, if possible? I would prefer things not to get as defensive and unpleasant here as they have in the comment threads of certain other drama/s that haven't been well-received.

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I don't get it really. The REAL competitor to SH is its Chinese counterpart itself, but even people everywhere have suggested not comparing between the adaptations.
Moonlight is similar to Moon lovers in genre and time slot, and place of production and that's about it (and maybe the Moon in the title if you'd like to count it in). People are too obsessed with the ratings they've kind of forgotten that Moon Lovers actually share a fundamental substance with C-BBJX: the source material. this element is more significant than any other common elements that it may share with Moonlight. It is from there that the two stories are built and told. No matter how hard you deny it and no matter how far the current story deviates from its source, the essence of the original novel is still there. Even if the historical setting and let's say, the look and acting of the actors, are advisably not brought into discussion, there is still that underlying comparison between the two shows in how the plot is executed and translated on screen, how artfully the story is told, and its emotional and critical impact.
So instead of showing incredulity regarding the other drama's performance, let's focus on Moon Lovers only. If you don't like Moonlight, it's alright. If you hate it, it's alright too, but belittling one to prove how the other is better is not how analysis a drama is done.

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@pogo, I also wish that the commentors avoid talk about other dramas. Unfortunately, the Moonlight fans can't seem to resist coming into the Scarlet threads to keep making comparisons with Scarlet Heart.

Even a simple comment about SH trending on Naver attracts comments from Moonlight fans that their drama has more views that Scarlet etc.

Which makes me kinda sad.

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@Jan - let's not pretend all of us Scarlet Heart fans have clean hands on this score, either - I'm seeing plenty of unnecessary talk from self-confessed SH fans right here about how Moonlight is just fluff propelled by its leads' popularity, or condescending implications about the tastes of the Korean audience.

Yes, comparisons will be drawn since the two dramas are sageuks and competing in the same time slot. But it's perfectly possible to enjoy a drama that doesn't book the #1 ratings spot or isn't received the way we wish it was, even with acknowledged flaws, and still have a positive commenting experience instead of constantly pointing out the (real or perceived) flaws of the competing drama.

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@pogo

Ultimately this is a Scarlet thread, and it is annoying to have to wade through so many off-topic comments about how much better the Moonlight drama is compared with Scarlet. As far as I am concerned, it's perfectly fine for them to say so on their own Moonlight thread. But I come in here to read about Scarlet not Moonlight.

For instance, a feel good comment like people are watching Scarlet vids on Naver could have just stopped there. But instead Moonlight fans have to come in here to to say that in reality, Moonlight vids get more views than Scarlet!?! Wasn't that unnecessary talk too?

And in my personal opinion, you are over-reacting to comments about Moonlight's genre, their leads’ popularity, or the tastes of the Korean audience. There is nothing wrong with liking youth romances, I watched Moorim School all the way to the end. There's nothing wrong with having popular leads, I am one of those in the DB minority who enjoyed Heirs. And there is nothing wrong with the preferences or tastes of the Korean audience, it is not condescending to say that the general audience in Korea or the rest of the world prefer rom-coms.

So let's just stop with the comparisons. All these constantly pointing out the (real or perceived) flaws of Scarlet Heart as compared with the competing drama, is spoiling my enjoyment of Scarlet Heart. Let's just discuss Scarlet on its own merits.

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@Jan - it's my opinion that a simple factual correction about the Moonlight Naver videos shouldn't bother anyone. And bringing up the other drama to talk about how this one is better/that one is just fluff or not as good etc etc, doesn't exactly reflect well on fans of this one.

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@pogo

It was not a factual correction as the comment was simply that SH vids were trending and in the top 10 or 100 or whatever, and it was the truth. The original comment did not even mention Moonlight. But Moonlight fans had to come in & compare and say that Moonlight has more views than Scarlet's.

So yes, it bothered me even though I may not be anyone to you. And I agree that Moonlight fans coming in to talk about how much better Moonlight is does not reflect well on Moonlight fans & vice versa. However, considering that Scarlet Heart is not doing well, to me, this is akin to kicking a dog when it's down.

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@Jan - I think you misunderstood what I said.

To make it very clear, Scarlet Heart fans putting down Moonlight Drawn By Clouds right from the replies to comment #1 does not reflect well on Scarlet Heart fans (of which I am one) at all.

You may continue believing that it's all the Moonlight fans' fault if you wish, but please take a look at the behaviour of both sides here. We don't have to be this way.

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also, if Moonlight did indeed have more views on their videos, there's nothing wrong with people correcting those of us who got the wrong impression from seeing the Naver trending videos page.

There's no need to take it as an insult to SH, if another drama is indeed more popular I don't have issues with knowing that.

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@Pogo

I went back to read again the replies to comment #1, and imo the initial replies were mainly about personal taste, preference, attitude and mindset of the drama viewers. They did not put down the other drama as what you said. There wasn't any comment dissing the other drama, and I think you may have misunderstood the initial commentors.

And I think you forget that my initial comment was that "I also wish that the commentors avoid talk about other dramas. Unfortunately, the Moonlight fans can’t seem to resist coming into the Scarlet threads to keep making comparisons with Scarlet Heart....which makes me sad." My point is the more the other drama fans come in here and make comparison comments, the more comparison comments will be made in response, which may result in not so nice comments being made by both sides.

I never said that I believed that it’s all the Moonlight fans’ fault, so please do not put words in my mouth. And I personally have not "put down" the other drama at all.

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@Pogo (cont'd)

I also do not have any issues knowing that another drama is more popular, after all it is obvious. But the initial comment was simply that SH was trending without any comparisons being made to the other drama. So I find it unnecessary & annoying for the other drama's fans to come in making comparisons saying they got more views or whatever. I find this type of one-upmanship behaviour to be not nice.

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"If I want to I can detail a long list of things i find wrong with it but if you go to the recap thread, you will be hard pressed to find one criticism."

Uhhm! But you're hard pressed on the criticisms toward ML though and it's not as if it's not unfounded!....so....

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@jane and @hye mi

I'm not belittling moonlight at all. AT ALL. Neither i am showing incredulity at its performance nor at its ratings. I did not even venture in the comparison with execution or story telling or general feel.

All I meant with the comparison was that every show has its flaws. But if the general sentiment about it is good, people tend to not focus on them. Whereas when a show starts with a negative atmosphere, every flaw gets highlighted, every thing gets dissected to pieces. And the drama suffers from unnecessary criticism. That was the gist of my post.

I used moonlight to make a point. So i'll apologise if someone feels that it was an attack on the other show. My bad.

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"you will be hard pressed to find one criticism"

This translates to: you'll have a hard time finding criticism (aka there's almost no criticism). It doesn't mean the "fans are getting pressed" expression that's common these days...

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For me i think it just has to do with personal taste. I for one have always preferred dramas with a more darker undertone and a few moments of cuteness here and there so I kinda dropped moonlight after the 1st 2 eps even though i do like the actors there as well but its just abit too cutesy and like warm. But rite now i kinda want something abit more complex and dark which SC kinda fufills but W really does a much btr job so it puts SC at a disadvantage because usually people will enjoy either a more towards the cutesy side or the darker complex side but SC us offering this weird balance which is probrably more of a niche market of sorts.

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ep 3-4 moonlighy show more depth ... and I agree tgat SC falls to the flast category of attempting the prettyness and the thriller

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tbh, i wasnt into either shows but decided to check it out, at the end moonlight grabbed my attention. everything in that drama is on point, acting,directing,writing,ost's, the story flows really nicely and the characters are fully realized along with plenty of fun and interesting dynamics from the eunachs, the price and his father, the bromance, the romance etc its a very well executed drama with a refreshing feel to it. at the end of the day every drama has its pro's and cons but its whether the pro's can outweigh the cons to the point where it doesnt bother people whatsoever and that's why moonlight is getting so much positivity.

shows have the 1st week to make an impression or should i say 1st ep. of course its gonna get compared to the original, when its an adaption of it and when the original is so beloved and a classic

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@bips99: Sorry if I come across as aggressive. The 'you' I used at the end of my post is a general 'you'. I should have used 'we' to make my point clearer.
And I don't mean you're comparing the execution of plots between two Moons. By these, I was actually referring to the 'competition' between K-BBJX and C-BBJX. After all, K-BBJX writer must have written her screenplay with C-BBJX in mind, with a goal to get out of the previous show's shadow. The acting, directing, and editing must have also been done in the same manner. Even LJK said himself that he watched the C-drama to get a gist of the story and its feel, though stopped mid-way to not get too immersed in it. There is always that implicit reference to C-BBJX, even if many insist (and rightly so, in many ways) that this is an adaptation and has nothing to do with the C-drama. However, many details such as the first meeting between the heroine and 4th prince on horseback, the familiar stranger in both present and past, the attempt to return to present time, are taken from the C-drama but not the novel itself. Therefore, much as one hates to deny it, C-BBJX drama is always there, lurking in the background. It is the true competitor of K-BBJX, the one our ML wants to grow out of.

Moonlight happens to be the rival in the rating battle, which doesn't equate to a quality battle. In fact, many Moonlight fans accepted that ML has meatier plot, is based on a pan-Asian successful novel and drama, & has at least two acting powerhouses (LJK&KHN). That at least is as much as admitting to their drama's weaker plot and much less potential for a pan-Asian success. Now as the table has unfathomably turned, some ML fans brought up Moonlight and start criticising its fluffy nature in a rating thread in comparison with ML (and I don't mean you because you're concerned about the atmosphere between the two threads), which sounds like vengeful resentment to me. They're caught up in the media play between the two stations, and somehow are oblivious to the possibility that it is the original C-BBJX that doesn't resonate with the representative Korean audience, and many may not tune in to ML for that reason, plus their withdrawal from previous dramas, and a bunch of other reasons. Fixating on Moonlight in turn results in negative reaction from the other fandom, and then comes war. Which should be the last thing that should happen considering how we're all aware of the nastiness of the media play is. In other words, we're feeding to the trolls.

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However, many details such as the first meeting between the heroine and 4th prince on horseback, the familiar stranger in both present and past, the attempt to return to present time, are taken from the C-drama but not the novel itself.

I'm sorry, but i seem can't find this part that you mentioned when i watched C-BBJX a few years ago, could you tell me in which episode these scene occured??

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+100

I'm just thankful that being an online viewer, I don't have to choose to which show to watch in real time or contribute to the ratings war. I can watch both and fairly criticize both! Muahaha!

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There should be a like button for your analysis, but nope. So you receive my <3!

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@Hye mi. Pls don't apologise. Till I discovered the internet, I didn't even realise I could care about fictional characters and actors so much. And I loved your analysis. There really needs to be a like button to upvote neutral, lofical comments.

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*logical

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IDK, I'm personally loving both shows, but then I was unaware of the hype for either one going in. I think they are both fun and utterly ridiculous.

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@madytres Lol at oppalogist. tbh they really really put you off drama recaps and sometimes even dramas with their obsession.

I suppose that no matter how different, that this is a remake/adaptation and not an original drama has to factor in? People may not be hating on the idea of a different remake but may be lukewarm to actual getting around to watching unless it gets real buzz. Going by a friend of mine who adores C BBJX who is mildly curious abt the K-version but not enough to tune in at the mo.

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I was not very keen to watch the original show. But for some reason I find the k-version easy to watch. I hope it will have a different ending than the original version.

For a period that allows concubines, I am shipping KHN/8th Prince with our girl. LJK/4th Prince is hot but a little bit too intense and all the gory killing is amounting to extreme sadism. Let's see how it goes..

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This sounds weird but I'll defend why the killing is essential to he character.

Horse- In one gesture it it spoke volumes about his level of pain, resolve and grit.

Assassins- in one scene it spoke volumes about the extremes he'd go to, in order to protect his family. Which was poignant in light of how poorly they treat him. If it was exposed that his mother was behind the plot, it's likely that she and all of her children would have been executed. And by defending them he put himself at risk of looking like a co-conspirator.

So the killing is gory. But it's not sadistic. It all has a logic. And oddly enough it informs us some of the character's better qualities: loyalty, resolve, leadership and grit.

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I agree. 200%

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I agree! I do think the character is supposed to be cruel, moreso than your usual rude prince or callous chaebol heir, and I think we were supposed to get that from the horse scene but also the rest of what you've said here rings true too. He's complex, cruel, not likeable, and therefore I hope a more compelling type than the standard fare.

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Thank you for writing this post! Everything I wanted to say to defend Wang So.

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yeah I think he killed everyone to cover for his mother, and ended with him in front of her no doubt hoping for a pat on the head and a good boy from his mother..not going to get it of course, or that my idea on why he turns up in her bedroom. For me they both as crazy as each other, I have no idea how the king could witness what she did all those year ago and not keep her under constant watch, if not arrange a nice accident for her, but instead he seems to let her do as she likes, and build up her own power base, and frankly she would be the first I would think he would suspect to be behind the attempt on the crown prince life..guess we have to put that down to drama plot blindness.

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@Gidget,

I agree with your assessment.

#1 Mu has accompanied his father in battle for a decade or two, and has killed an untold number of opponents.

#8 Wook kills one assassin in the woods (and lord knows how many since the age of 11), and explains to Hae-Soo that defending one's family not only goes with the territory as a man, but is the bare minimum requirement for a prince.

#4 So cleans out a viper's nest of assassins in defense of #1 Mu who saved his life (and to deprive Mom of personnel for further murderous mischief, as well as get rid of the evidence of her involvement -- to spare himself and #14 Jung, who were not involved in her plot).

Given the brutal circumstances of So's life, it's no wonder he's developed into an efficient, shark-like killing machine. He didn't come across as sadistic to me. (Marlon Brando's character in THE MISSOURI BREAKS was a sadist.) So dispatches his foes quickly, often with a single killing stroke. I'd call that pretty humane...

As for killing his horse, it's the 10th-century version of putting sugar in the gas tank... along with a hearty "... and the horse you rode in on!"

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I read the scene of him killing the monks as a testament of how much he is desperate for his mother's affection. He is that desperate. If you look closely, you will notice that he hesitated before killing the first monk, prior to the massacre. This revealed his true feeling and conscience. He did not want to kill those monks, but he had to, in order to gain his mother's affection. I think, he figured that by covering his mother's involvement in the conspiracy, he can make her like him (maybe with underlying blackmail). That's why he went to see his mother immediately after the massacre. Like a child who went up to his mother, expecting praise after a good deed well done.

At this point, he is so desperate for his mother's affection that he would do anything, anything at all to gain the affection. Even if it conflicts with his conscience.

Secondly, in the scene where he questioned 3rd Prince about their mother's involvement in the conspiracy, he looked pained when it was somewhat confirmed that his mother is involved. This showed how much he cared and liked her, despite her rejections. On the other hand, he looked like he does not really like/care about the 3rd Prince (he does not mind the other younger princes, somewhat civil with 8th and respected the Crown Prince). If 3rd Prince is the only one involved in the conspiracy to kill the Crown Prince, So would not have hesitated to turn him over. But in this case his mother (whom he likes very much: the hair pin, the smile as he entered her room, the hope) is at risk too. Hence, So had to go against himself to protect his mother, hoping that she will have to accept him this time around.

As for the horse, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The killing of the horse showed us how much he do not want to return to the Kangs. I think, in this aspect, he is very much like Hee Soo, when she said that she just want to try desperately to live. Wang So wants to live, but living with the Kangs, who attempted to kill him everyday is hard. No matter how strong willed So may be, he can still lose his will to live if he has to fight for his life everyday, day after day. He is getting tired and frustrated of the Kangs schemes on his life that he figured he must escape them (by returning to the Capital) before he lost his will to live.

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All about Expectations and mismatch..

I liked the drama...not knowing abt Bu Bu or chinese original drama, I was drawn in watching ep 1-2.

Infact it's after that that I watched the 6 minute trailer and was blown away with that... Its epic trailer.. and I was left waiting for ep 3 ( note.. the anticipation was much less when I finished ep 2.. when it was just another interesting drama)..

So what truly can pull this up in terms of online negative feedback are the fan groups of the actors involved.
Because, despite rough editing, the issue isn't really about content - the drama is not half bad.

anyways, read that they are launching re-edited versions of ep 1-3 for viewers.

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I wholeheartedly welcome it if they want re-edit the first 3 episodes, especially the first one. In all honesty, the first episode was unimpressive.

I watch both Moonlight and Scarlet. I had low expectation on Moonlight (I did not even plan to watch it when I read the synopsis) when I sampled the first episode, but I was blown away by how nice the drama is presented in the first episode that I decided to follow the drama. On the other hand, I had been waiting for Scarlet to start airing and was very disappointed with how the first episode is presented to us. IU and the younger princes' acting doesn't help either but LJK's strong acting (and Haneul too) kept me cemented to the screen.

I am not bashing Scarlet here nor trying to put Moonlight on pedestal. love both dramas because each have their own strength. It's just that because I know Scarlet can do better. So much potential.

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It's because this is a remake. Many Asian viewers think that the ending is as tragic as the original Chinese Drama Scarlet Heart.

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Ikr? I'm satisfied with both Moonlight Drawn By Clouds and Scarlet Heart. ?? It's such a bless for me to have a dose of sageuks every Mon-Tue ~~ while waiting for W every Wed-Thu.

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Me too.

I still have a little bit complain for both show, but overall... I like them

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Me three!!

I was dissappointed with SH first episode but the second and third episodes more than made up for the first episode.

I like both sageuks and am having a hard time deciding which to watch first on tv. Dilemma, dilemma.

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One was okay, two was good, and three has me addicted.

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Episode 1 was WTF is this? I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. So many things threw me off but I kind of have a feel for the show after eps 2 and 3.

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I found the first episode too childish and cartoonish, and I couldn't immerse into the story. Now it seems that everything is on the (broad, in terms of acting skills) shoulders of LJK and KHN...

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Me too! I like everything in this drama. I haven't seen the Cdrama version so all the stroy line is new to me and I like it!

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Haters gonna hate but this drama is good. This is my only second drama of Lee Jun Ki after My Girl, men.... I am impressed. He is very good. It's only the drama's first. I'm sure it's going to rate well.

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I am also watching both this show and Moonlight and enjoying both of them for almost completely different reasons. Moonlight is light and frothy and totally ahistorical, and ML is edgy, dark, with complicated relationships that I think more accurately reflect what it must have been like.
The one thing both shows have in common is that the lead actors are a joy to watch, so talented and able to portray the many sides of their characters with just a slight shading in expression.

I am enjoying LJK more than I have in any other show - for example, the scene where he has his brother cornered and realizes that his mother is behind the assassination attempt - anger, sorrow, disgust, resignation, determination - all flit across his face in a moment.

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I'm enjoying MOONLIGHT much more than SCR. It's just a better in all aspects.

I loved the original Chinese version of Scarlet Heart. The Korean production team knew they were "inspired" by a hugely popular original CDrama and should have used the best of everything to do a Korean version. Sadly, they have not done so.

I think the actors are trying very hard to do the best they can w/what's been given them and how they are being directed. But, the show falls sadly short in story line and production quality. I think the editing makes this progress in a very choppy manner, the acting is either over or under-done. I know EJK can act well, but, so far, in this I'm not getting a continuity of character. His shifts from being a wolf to a puppy dog and back are not believably done, to me.

I hope the whole show smooths out and finds it's pace. I really wish the costumes, sets and cinematography were/are better done.

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Even if the drama didn't go well in Korea, it will be fine internationally as many international people like it.

After finishing this drama, I recommend you try Iljimae. It is the drama that make me really fall into Lee Jun Ki act.

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@Hyades, Thanks for the recommendation. I was actually planning to watch any of his dramas whilst awaiting for the next episode. I am just torn which one to watch first. I really enjoyed The Return of Iljimae by Jung Il Woo. It was really great. I think the first Iljimae maybe as great or even better.

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There's also Scholar Who Walks the Night. It's poorly written, with a weak ending and a dumb heroine, but it's worth watching even if it's just for LJK and Lee Soo Hyun. The villain is so charismatic, smart and SMOKING HOT that you end up rooting for him!

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I agree 100% This ep was great! I couldnt believe an hour had gone by... I want mooooore!!!

I find audiences unpredictable, tbh. Just look at DOTS. It was a terrible drama. The script was horrendous and the plot was boring... and it became a huge hit. Go figure.

Haters will be haters. Critics can criticize to their hearts content. It will not stop me from enjoying this drama or any other drama that tickles me pink :)

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Except for the protagonist's jokes and some beautiful shots of the landscape, DoTS was awful. Unbelievably stupid. The author didn't research ANY of the things she showed and the plot was... well... "Heirs"-level. :-/

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Agree. Dots was boring as hell, I didn't get the hype.
This drama is entertaining, not as bad as ppl said.

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I wish you guys would cut the bullshit. I get that everyone has an "opinion," but I'm so tired of people comparing MDBC to this show. They are different. I would love a reasonable discussion of this show on its own merits, rather than a meaningless debate between the two that is totally based on individual opinions and ratings. For some reason, this reminds me a lot of the SUPER heated controversy and ugly fan drama regarding Answer Me 1994. Everyone is entitled to their own view. Also, from listening to the podcasts, I know how exhausted JB and GF became from that debate; I really don't want that kind of thing to happen again. We all look bad when this type of nasty arguing goes on. PLEASE, let's be rational and civil towards each other. I want dramabeans to continue for a long long time, which means not being pointlessly obnoxious for the site moderators.

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Yes discuss the dang show. We'd get more out of it then this debate over ratings and haters. Go hangout at naver etc if you like things like that.

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To me moonlight love in cloud is like must of the typical korea drama, it is kind of boring because i can predict the end already.
A story of a girl acting and dressing like a boy is like most korean drama such as TO THE BEAUTIFUL YOU, YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL, COFFEE PRINCE AND SO ON.
But the end will alway be the same, the guy find himself falling in love with the boy(who is disguising herself as a boy) and later found out the truth and falls more in love. The story is already boring to me but i still like SCARLET HEART, maybe because of the story line or the way it has been hyped online, i hope it will be as interesting as THE FLOWER IN PRISON in his upcoming episode

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Can we not compare the two shows? They both have their merits - some people like one, others like the other. However, bringing the other down here just because you don't like it is just petty and immature, especially since there's no way you can tell which direction either one will take. Use this space for discussing Moon Lovers.

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oooooommmmaaaaaaa!!!! >///_<" even though yea thats the original storyline and ya know historical dramas hafta have lotsa drama n tragedies (sad face)

haha really sori i know im emphasising the no-so-great-stuff, but i totes recommend watching this drama!!SOOOOO GOOOD
btw, i didnt even know iu(shes so cute) acted before seeing this drama and even though there aren't so great comments and opinions about it and the whole cast, WATCHITFIRSTbefore u jump to conclusions pls(at least up to episode 4)thx

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I am enjoying the show a lot and am glad they made it.
It has a lot of beautiful scenes and I have watched through all 3 episodes and it is not boring, unlike the other show that I could not make it through the first episode.

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This show was never boring to begin with. A lot people had extremely high expectations about this, so some weren't completely satisfied with the first couple of episodes. I on the other hand, continues to enjoy this trip to Goryeo.

Anyways, this is much more important:

#8 who happens to be married to Lady Hae, likes her cousin, Su.
Su likes #8.
Lady Hae somehow has mixed feelings for #10.
#10 admitted to Lady Hae that he thinks more of her than just a sister.
#10 is close to #14 who also happens to like Su.
#4 is our cold blooded killer hero who kinda hates Su but we know he likes her.
Princess likes #4. Princess does not like Su.
#3 is the evil queen's right hand man to do her evil deeds. #3 hates #4.
Evil queen hates anyone that stands in her way. Period. She's just evil.

Who says Goryeo days are boring??

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You mean #13 (Wang Wook/Baek-ah) likes Lady Hae, #10 is Baekhyun (character name Wang Eun) who likes Su

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Yes! It's #13 not 10. Thanks.

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Life is complicated in Moon Lovers: Scarlet Incest Ryeo, but it is not boring - LOL

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Wipe the rose-colored gloss of time off any royal court of years past, and you'll discover how not boring history is, and how the truth is more interesting, and often stranger, than fiction. English history is a particular interest of mine, and what the royals and nobles got up to...lordy, it puts soaps and K-dramas to shame! I mean, George, Duke of Clarence, brother of Edward IV and Richard III, was drowned in a butt of malmsey (read: a huge ass barrel of wine) for plotting against Edward IV, or because Richard wanted to eliminate competition for the throne b/c George was older than him and, therefore, was ahead of him in the line of succession. *waves hand vaguely in the air* It's late and I forget the exactly whys and wherefores. During the War of the Roses, the crown was going back and forth between the Yorks and Lancasters like a football between opposing teams and trying to keep track of who was on the throne would give you whiplash. Scheming! Plotting! Planning! In Europe, inbreeding so severe, a royal couple who share eleven (out of sixteen) of the same great-grandparents!

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Oh there are 3 episodes now? I thought it just premiered this week.

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They did back-to-back episodes on its premiere

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That's because SBS wanted to premiere with a bang and aired two episodes back-to-back on Monday.

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And now apparently they will be re-airing all three.

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Well, networks usually re-air their dramas. But yeah, at this point, with its ratings, it does look like a desperate attempt to counter the backlash. Oh well, SBS gotta do what its gotta do...

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Oh, even next week? I thought it was just for this week.

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SBS said that Moon Lovers will re-release this Saturday the first 3 episodes with better editing and changes in the ost that made some viewers uncomfortable.

So, next week (and the others) they will release as any other drama, 1 episode on Monday and another on Tuesday.

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I would like to watch the reruns but don't know where to find them... Has anyone seen them yet?

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This threw me off. I was looking forward to this show but there are so many new dramas that I'm watching now that when Moon Lovers decided to do 2 in one day, I felt overwhelmed and gave it up to just reading recaps, since I'm already behind with it.

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Is it just me who finds it hilarious how JB is posting the Moon Lovers recaps and GF is posting the Moonlight Drawn by the Clouds recaps? Somehow it adds to the shows' ratings rivalry even if I'm not watching from SK.

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Javabeans recapped the first two episodes of Moonlight.

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Javabeans must be on her third can of RedBull.

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Why is she even recapping so much? I thought she just had back surgery.

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Really? *goes back to re-read every single word in the recap knowing her extra hardwork*

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Is it just me who finds it hilarious that the Monk Master is the same Monk in Let's Fight, Ghost. AND also the same Monk in Cinderella and the four Knights that talked to Yoon Sung in the temple. Oh this monk sure is busy workin on 3 diff project at the same time tho, in this ep just a cameo but still. HAHA seeing him in 3 diff projects just crack me up. Like when I see his face I was like whaaaaat you again master???

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Yeah I noticed the same thing. The same actor playing the monk in all those dramas. Talk about typecasting! Or is the actor really a monk in real life?

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My mon-tues are moonified! <3 I am so in love with this show but still confused who hye soo will end up with . According to wiki both kang so and wook have wives so where will the actress fit in? I checked it out on wiki because I am finding it harder to understand complex family structure . It feels like everything is interwoven together. Nevertheless I am loving the funny banter between hyesoo and both the male leads.

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It was common in earlier times to have more than one wife, so I am guessing Hye Soo won't have a problem being married to Wook or So, especially as they are Royals and can take many consorts and concubines.

Spoiler alert from the original C-drama/ book below:

[SPOILER] If you're eager to know more, you can read up on the C-drama. :)

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Thanks but I will not kill my suspense just yet. :D
On the other hand since you seem to have read the book or have watched the drama Is there any possibility that hye so goes back to future? and what happened to the spirit of the actual hye so? Is she wandering some where or has she been transported to 21st century? can we have a parallel drama? where we will see a josean era girl trying to fit in this world??!

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I honestly think the original Haesoo died, and Hajin entered her body from the future and lived as her.

In the original book it was a sad ending, the girl dies and does not go back to the 21st century. The author recently released a new epilogue to the novel and it was bitter sweet. If you'd like to know what happens you can let me know lol.

But in the C-drama, the girl goes back to the 21st century and saw 4th prince at an art gallery but he has no memory of her.

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Oh, really? I didn't know the ending of the C-drama was different from the novel. Now I'm curious about the new epilogue. Pls, spoil me!
Thanks in advance.

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@Joy

The epilogue centers around 13th and his lover's (I believe it'll be Seohyun here) daughter and 4th's young son. It takes place several years after Ruoxi/Haesoo died. 13th's daughter drew a painting of RX/HS and offered it to the 4th but he rejected it, she then believed he forgot about her and didn't love her anymore. But one day she saw the 4th alone in RX/HS's old room reading her old calligraphy writings, and looking at her old belongings , it was then she realized the 4th never forgot about RX/HS. Note the 4th also appeared to be very lonely and didn't visit his wives/concubines often after RX/HS passed away. When the 4th was on his death bed, he told his brother he was going to take Ruoxi/HS's hairpin with him to the ground.

That epilogue got me crying :(

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Hi, i'm very much intrested to read the novel. What is the titlte and is it translated to english? I dont read korean nor chinese but i would like to read the novel..now it will be more fun. I can create my own scene in my head with LJK etc while i read the novel...a way to pass time while waiting for the next episode tho?

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@Iluljk

I don't think it's translated into English... I bought the book and read it. Just google Bu Bu Jing Xin new epilogue English translation maybe it'll come up? Not sure, sorry not much help.

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@cherryarrow, Thanks for the epilogue. It's so sad that I'm already tearing. It reminds me of the ending of Hawick Lau's Chronicle of Life where I cried buckets.

@Iluljk

I think only the first few chapters have been translated into English. You can google Bu Bu Jing Xin English translation.

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@cherryarrow @Jan
Thanks for the suggestion..i already read the english translation of the novel..unfortunately it stops at chapter 8.
Now i really get the gist on why there is so much hype over the reffernce of moon lover with the novel..the novel was magnificent..i was hooked. Innitially i was very okay with Moon Lover and does not get why poeple are complaining and keep comparing. But after reading the translated novel, without intention, i feel kinda dissapointed (just a very little tinniest bit) that it does not live up to the grandiose of the original novel plot. But still...i think it was not fair to expect Moon Lover to live up to expectation of the novel..even the most popular hollywood novel adaptation movie still get criticism for not living up to the original..who are we to expect ML to be the same..i think ML have done a well done job in at least ep2-3
But i am agitated now that i've read the first few chapters of the novel but can't continue..i really hope the translator or somehow the translated version to english is available. Momentarily i even consider to learn mandarin..?

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@Jan

Oh yeah, when the book first got released they didn't have that epilogue. The epilogue was released in 2011 I think. When Ruoxi died she believed the 4th resented her, which was so sad because that wasn't true at all. I guess that new epilogue makes the fan feel a little better.

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@Iluljk

I would say Chinese version of Scarlet Heart did a great job adapting the novel. Usually when somebody adapts a book into a movie/drama it's not that great but Scarlet Heart drama I would say matches the book 95%. I can't believe how well the book did lol, it was originally a web novel/fanfiction haha.

I think the K version is doing a great job right now, props to them for finding a similar background to the original series. I saw some teasers before it aired and I kinda already have a feeling which scenes they are. I hope the ending isn't sad...

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I'm to tell tokay with princess running off yo be happy without marrying her half brother under a new identity and Hae Su taking her place. Seems plausible.

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Totally okay. I'm totally okay.

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Yes! I would also be totally ok with that. She could go take a bath then get pulled into the water as the lunar eclipse happen then awake in IU's body in the 21st century. Perfectly cyclical way to get rid of her.

Or, you know, she could join a gang of outlaws and organize them into the most efficient networks of spies ever seen and go fight criminals in the country or something... There are many things she could be doing instead of making googly eyes at her half brother :)

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I'm really disappointed that I can't get into this...there's something that feels really off. It might be the music cues, which feel a little too modern and poppy for a historical drama that's supposed to be Epic and Grand. It might be the absolute zero subtlety in the acting for the younger princes + IU. I'm also kind of frustrated with the way they're taking IU's character - it's like they gave up common sense in exchange for a whole lot of spunk. i can appreciate that if it was organic, but it kind of feels like I'm being manipulated into liking Hye Su since she's the classic trope spunky heroine.

I'll try to stick it out for a couple more weeks because god knows I need something epic and historical. Thanks for the recap Javabeans! It's 3AM for me rn PST and I know you posted this only a little while ago so I hope you get some sleep!!

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I can handle everything else about the music, but I really, really wish that sageuks would stop using songs with English lyrics for OSTs/BGM.

I can even understand using modern music - A Knight's Tale did a great job of melding a medieval setting with a modern rock/pop OST, and it's fine in movies/dramas purposely stylised that way, but the English is a bit too much here.

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for me it's the rap part

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I can see that - it's weird, because I LOVED the use of rap songs as background music in Chuno and Arang (MC Sniper's flow fits perfectly with action scenes) but it's really down to the songs themselves because I do not like it at all here.

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I find it's too fast/early, the early ep seems like fan service with all the shot galore in the opening

just if they used ost like lyn-back in time for the 1st week, it will give more depth,

rap can be added later for the fitted moment

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This article (http://entertain.naver.com/read?oid=109&aid=0003386494) said that EP 1-3 will be re-aired but with re-edited version/ director's version. It also included something about the OST/background music.

The comments of the viewers about the editing (which JB also pointed out in her comments) and the unsuitable/distracting OST must have struck a chord with the production team. This drama is visually appealing and generally the acting's not bad, so I hope it'll get better.

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I hope SBS takes this opportunity to look over the editing of the remaining episodes too, they must be really keen to save this drama.

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I think they'd better be. SH has got major backup from Universal and the reception of the show, in both reviews and viewing counts, may play a role in future deals.
The thing is serious reviews/ feedback are often written in English and international viewers and sponsors have easy access to them too. I'm actually reaaaallllly glad that this wil probably teach whoever is behind all the unfitting music and maybe even the PD that sometimes they need a better approach to promoting their idols and/ or filming for a different genre.

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I don't know if the dealmakers behind this will be actively checking for what the English-speaking audience thinks - we are, after all, a secondary (possibly tertiary) priority in their scheme of things, and idk what weight our views hold for them, if any.

But I hope that they do take the actual criticism on board, and make the best of it.

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That OST sang by IOI was just so bad. Like why does the music production team decide to use that song for this drama!! It's so unsuitable.

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I personally really enjoy the bgm for this drama. Don't know why everyone is so annoyed XD I love it.
Maybe it's the fact that I really don't like the sappy songs they so often like to use in sageuks..

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I think the score itself is lovely - the one that played in the scene where we're first introduced to all the princes in the bath was perfect.

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Caveat: the score itself is lovely, but they really need to be more careful about how and where to use it. I'm not really into the 'this is comical!' music cues. Sometimes a scene needs to be allowed to spin out without the instruments distracting the viewer.

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I agree, the background music can be distracting and unnecessary at sometimes. It's not coherent. It creates a dissonance of what I'm seeing and how I should feel about a scene. The intensity and tempo don't match at times, giving you that off feeling. But there are great scenes in this episode that made me laugh and I don't find acting as disconcerting. I really am enjoying the show as it progresses.

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I think that switching from a beautiful, eerie instrumental piece to a cheesy pop ballad IN THE MIDDLE of the scene of the 4th prince's bath and encounter with the female lead was a really, really bad choice. It ruined the mood.

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Yep, just wanted to give a big applause to Javabeans for making it through this monster premiere, may your typing fingers have a nice rest.

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Yeah, I hope jb takes care of her health (and I mean that sincerely, not in the Shin Sung-rok way)

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I think the real issue since episode 1 is although it is a fantasy drama you want your
Hero to react like real people would do !!! That is how you identify and warm yourself to a character when he is reacting like an human being!!! But hee-soo' s reaction to her throwing in goryo era is just so weird, her lines are so badly-written, I think I know why the drama pd said that iu was this drama genius, because she is unexpectedly warming us to her although hee-soo has no back-bones and her brain has been flushed to the toilet...
I am not even gonna start about the "brothers" baekhyun & ji soo make me cring thanx god for lee jun ki and kim ha neul Who save the day.

There are so much loopholes and this drama has just no depth that there are only three factors making me keep on watching it : iu - junki-haneul...
you know what is the worst ?! It is an already made drama so they had time to think, to film, to cut, to adjust music... They had time to make it brilliant ... And may be that is why the criticism are so harsh against this drama, it has none excuses.

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KHN and LJK's acting is the only reason why I'm stil watching this drama. Too many things just don't make sense, the script is weak and the editing is choppy, with too many and too sudden mood shifts.

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KHN's acting is definitely worth to watch! And geez, he's so damn good in wearing those saeguk costume!

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Yes, to me the weakest portion of this drama is the music and the acting of the young-uns. Ji Soo, in particular, is cringeworthy. I think he has done really well in his modern work, but he looks so self-conscious, and his dialogue is so stilted, that it looked like High School theater out there (well, worse, I've seen some pretty good HS stuff lately). IU cries well but that perpetually surprised look has got to go, and the other two youngsters are also acting like they are over in Moonlight rather than this drama.

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That's a great observation - the young prince scenes looking like they should be in Moonlight rather than this drama. I love both dramas (don't get me wrong!) but there's no denying there's a curious mish-mash of tone in SH. Also agree that the perpetual bug-eyed shocked look is beginning to grate, but otherwise I have no complaints about IU, and anyway she was likely directed to do that.

I'm curious about the hate for IU. I don't follow any actors, it's not my thing, but I just loved her in Dream High, and actually looked her up I was so impressed = out of all of them - with her singing. She seems a multi-talent to me.

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In all honesty, I adore IU as a person and as a musician. I also think she does a good job as an actor, all things considered, but I've noticed (starting with her role in Producers) that there's a limit to what she can tap into emotionally, and I think that's already starting to show here.

It's partially the writer's fault, since you're left feeling like she skipped a large part of emotional development at literally travelling through time, but I also feel like I'm watching IU playing a role on my screen, rather than just Hye Su/Ha Ri on my screen.

There's also the matter of Lee Jun Ki having enveloped his role so well as So, which I feel like is really noticeable as a contrast to IU, since they're technically playing the two main leads. It wasn't as bad in Producers, since her character wasn't coupled off and wasn't a MAIN lead, but here, her weaknesses are really starting to show up.

I don't know. I think the writer and director are as much at fault, if not more, than IU at really getting her character right, but I am also feeling IU might have taken on a role that's a little bit more advanced than she realized.

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It's just that she's being coupled with two actors with a truckload of talent and experience, and you can clearly see the difference...

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@jerboa83 - Cha Tae-hyun, Gong Hyo-jin and Kim Soo-hyun have no shortage of talent and experience themselves, but IU held up beautifully with them in Producer.

But this is a sageuk, and as you said, when she's paired with two actors as adept at the technical aspects as Lee Jun-ki and Kang Haneul, her comparative inexperience really puts her at a disadvantage. Despite that, she still has good chemistry with both so I can live with that - no little-sister vibes here.

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Ji-soo in modern dramas and especially high school dramas is absolute love because he's so good at conveying intensity and vulnerable youth and being a human puppy, but Ji-soo in a sageuk? Just does not work, because it's SO CHEESY.

I mean, he's still adorable but he frequently makes me cringe. Which he never did before. The surprise is that Nam Joo-hyuk is bearable as #13 - him and Ji-soo together in that marketplace worked a lot better than Ji-soo/Baekhyun. Though as you said, the youngsters and especially 10 and 14, feel like they're in a totally different drama from Lee Jun-ki and Kang Haneul.

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I don't get those people who decided to look at this drama negatively because of OST. So i guess they should hire musical scorers than writers when creating a drama? Okay.

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It's all about mood. A drama like Moonlight can get away with poppy music because it has an atmosphere that is light and frothy and cheeky. That's what it's advertised itself as, that's the kind of story it's trying to tell, and that's the mood it's trying to set.

SH is not trying to tell that kind of story, which is why it's odd for it to be setting a mood that is so disjointed from the sweeping, epic feeling that it's obviously going for. I'm not trying to bash the drama - I WANT to be into the romance, I want to enjoy the lighter moments as much as the heavier ones. But it doesn't work when I'm completely taken out of it with the background music, which for me isn't a question about music anymore, but more about mood. There's a feeling I want to be left with when I finish an episode, and SH doesn't provide that, and I think a part of the reason is because of the music.

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"There’s something that feels really off. It might be the music cues, which feel a little too modern and poppy for a historical drama that’s supposed to be Epic and Grand. It might be the absolute zero subtlety in the acting for the younger princes + IU. I’m also kind of frustrated with the way they’re taking IU’s character – it’s like they gave up common sense in exchange for a whole lot of spunk." Same here... I cannot seem to identify with her or root for her: her character has no depth, so far, and seems too dumb for my tastes.

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Seriously loving Moon Lovers right now! Sure, it was less… grand from the promotions but gah, I feel lots and lots of butterflies from watching it. Lee Junki is killing the brooding bad boy role and his screen presence/charisma is just on another level.

Though I got to admit, Kang Haneul (and his smileeee) is definitely the one who caught my eye from the first three episodes. I was purely Team 4th Prince on the C-drama but I guess my inner Team 4th Prince heart can wait on the later episodes in this adaptation lol

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I love Lee Jun Ki and want to love this drama. I don't dislike a single person on the cast and don't hate the show. But it isn't exactly making it easy for me to connect with anything in it. With the many chars and happenings that have been thrown at us, the camera moves around a lot, which doesn't give me time to see their changing expressions, digest what they are emoting, feel their angst, etc. So much of it feels stylised.
What I take from it so far:
They went thru a lot of trouble to give us the bath scenes; Jun Ki's action scenes are full of energy; the queen is a bitch. The rest of it doesn't land as well for me.

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You've pretty much nailed the premiere week summary.

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I also really want to love it, I even watch twice, with and without subs but I don't get why I should continue for the plot,
I like the way KHN and LJK play their character but I just can't fully enjoy it,

too much close up, hard to deal funny skit and I can't even sympatize with the heroine struggling, she is over the top for 3 episode, it's fine for early episode..

and I am not hating this drama at all, I just want it to be better when they have the potential

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Well, that scene of the 8th prince basically confessing to his wife how much he likes IU and can't wait to see her every day was super awkward.

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Also, if this is a typo by JB, it's a very funny one -

"..and as Choi sexplains this, So envisions Yo carrying it out.".
Freudian slip XD?

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Yes... I cringed at that scene.

Well, he's really lack of sensibility here.

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Well. It is Goryeo time where the man can get more than one wife. I think he didn't meant hurt her. He spook about her as small, little girl (as he think) but his way of talking reveal his feeling and I didn't think he noticed this but this wife did.

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Yeah, I see where he comes from.

There's no Kdrama in Goryeo Era or book like the one Kang Chul has in W to guide our princes to understand women's heart... So I'd give him that.

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He should ask Ra-on. She'll give him tips on understanding women (for a fee, of course).

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But Ra On live in Jeoseon era... so...

Probably the only thing he can count on is the book that was read by Wang So in the library in episode 1... but then again... the book covers about a different topic...

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I think this happens in our times too, let's face it, Wook and his wife's wedding was probably arrange. She's also sickly and she was trained to be a good wife who is elegant and gentle and never complains.

But Hae Soo questions him, is independent, and is not afraid to dig at him, like the moment where she asks about Wook's feelings about killing the person. She's not afraid to talk to him, to have him lean on her for a change.

It's like the difference between having a very polite roomate, and living with your bestfriend. The connection is a whole different level.

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And thanks to that bomb spoiler from the previous recap, the scene of Yeonwha tending to 4th's wound takes the lead in the awkward moments of the show.
Though 10th' not so lowkey confession to Lady Hae kinda makes it up for it. It's all so intriguing!

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couldn't agree more re: the awkwardness. Wook basically told his wife that he is attracted to her cousin (who she looks at as a daughter at that), and the chipper music playing in the background made it even worse.

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Lol. So Much. At this. XD

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It was a man's world, and I thought his little speech - and her stricken expression - summed it up quite neatly. Glad I'm living now, thank you very much.

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The royal's wives were expected to live in harmony (but that's not dramatic enough for dramas lol). It's not odd for the husband to talk about other women to his wife. If he fancies a young maiden, then it's a good thing to get his wife's approval.
( That's exactly why King Taejo and Queen Yoo were fighting earlier).

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Goryeo's royal families were made up of different clans. The Wangs were the most dominant. (I'm sure we'd get to see it in future episodes).
It was important for the women to bear children (especially male) to strengthen and continue the family line. That's why men in those days have more than one wife.

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YES!

Thank you for pointing that out here. I cannot understand that scene. It took me by surprised at how open and senseless he was to speak like that to his wife about another woman.

I officially took Prince Wang's name off the husband material list.

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he was never close to the "old" haesoo, and the "new" haesoo intrigued him. she is different. when he's talking about, he is not talking about romantic feelings: he is just surprised, interested, curious
lady hae has romantical feelings for is husband, but the prince don't. he cares for his wife treats her well - she is a model wife for the era, but he is not close to her emotionally.

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I think it was the arranged marriage. He did not choose her. It was common in old days in Asia. A man's first marriage was by his parents and he could choose any wives later on but he had no choice on the 1st wife.

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Oooh, I thought I wasn't just used to saeguk-style editing (if there is such a thing), that's why I kept rewinding to catch the flow and transitions. But this episode is definitely better than the previous ones, and more action-packed.

I like how Wook-Su interactions are simple and heart-fluttering, while So-Su interactions are dramatic and heart-racing (with you know, the multiple attempted murders).

Wook is just adorable this episode, but I wish he didn't lowkey gush about Su in front of Hae. The woman is an angel so don't break her heart like that!

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While it might be a bad idea for Wook to talk about Su in such way in front of his wife, I consider that scene as an important scene. That scene shows us that Wook has started to like Su, even though he, being the thoughtful and nice person, is not aware of it himself. His wife's facial reaction speaks volume, about her shock and perhaps acceptance(?).

I would find this action cringe-worth if its a modern drama, but in period drama where it is a norm for a man to have several wives and concubine, I don't find his action offending, though a bit thoughtless for someone as thoughtful as 4th Prince.

If I learned anything about the women mindset in those old days from Jang Ok Jung, it is that any woman who becomes a man's principal wife has mentally prepared to face a situation where her husband takes in another wife or concubine. It's not about those principal wives being spineless, but more about their understand and acceptance of the practice. That's why we see Lady Hee looks so composed albeit a bit shocked. She my have expected him to take on concubines/wives at some point in their marriage, but she did not expect the girl to be Su

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Sorry, I meant 8th Prince, not 4th

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The intensity went up by several notches.

I love the whole blood and violence thing they have going on. It was a brutal time and LKJ is really good with action scenes.

The confrontation b/w HS and So hit him hard when she asked him that is she just expected to die and do nothing? Because that is what people expected of him. He defied them and I think he likes her a little now for being the same.

HS wailing that So just wants to kill her everytime was hilarious. She was more pissed of at So than the assassin

wook is now pretty much a goner. Him waxing on about HS to his wife was badly done of him. Modern sensibilities but i wanted to kick him

The show is shaping up nicely. I read on Soompi that SBS is going to re-air the 3 episodes with better editing. So we can expect tighter episodes for all further episodes. Though i'm not sure how it works since they would need to send all the re-edited tapes again to various countries and websites.

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now I really want to *headdesk*

They had months to edit, this drama wrapped up all filming at the end of June, and NOW is when SBS sees the actual episodes and notices 'oh yeah, the editing isn't great'?

(and can they please do something about the closeups while they're at it, too? Though that might be hopeless since it's a PD trademark)

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Because of these pretty faces its tolerable the close ups were tolerable but now I'm starting to get annoyed. Su's got a smaller face but the camera zooms in so much that sometimes I can't even see her forehead.

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I can't agree more. However I wish they would spend the time to re-edit the rest of the episodes so that there would be no more awkward music ruining the mood of a scene and ease up on the closeups too. I guess it's common practice for PDs to do multiple-angle shots (I read it somewhere) so there must be more than one shot for certain scenes right.
I still remember that scene where Wook spotted Soo stretching herself. At the end of the scene when Wook was walking into the house it ended with 'baby baby boy' and I can't help but crack up.

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Exactly - re-editing episodes that have already aired is just closing the stable doors after the horse has bolted. The important thing at this stage is to take a good hard look at the episodes that haven't aired and fix the editing/OSt issues on those, because if those have similar issues, they'll undo all their work fixing the earlier eps.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cringe at that song, to be honest.

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I'm so pissed at the editing and music. Writing as well. I'm not sure why this was fully pre-produced. It didn't need to be, when we will get the same flaws and story from a live shoot. ???

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I welcome modern songs in sageuks but modern songs with English lyrics and rap?! NO.

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@Gelai - the only real difference I see is that the visual quality of the drama is A++ (apart from those bloody close-ups!)

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@Kim - yeah, I can take a rap, but English lyrics AND rap throw me out of the setting, in a really bad way.

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@Kim

I agree. The OST was so bad. I had OSTs similar to Queen Inhyun's Man in mind then they gave us this. :(

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I think at this point, we may have to resign ourselves to the ratings.

Which is fine by me even if it bruises my fangirl heart - at least we have loads of people commenting, and low Nielsen ratings don't mean we can't have fun here in the comments.

(I'm still up for that 'go back in time and assassinate So's mother' plan, btw)

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For me it was either one because I have oppa here and Kim Yoo-jung in the other. I basically set myself up for a broken heart over it.

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Yeah, I love all the leads of our moon dramas, but we can't get a ratings situation that works out well for both :(

It would be nice if we had as much fun commenting here as we did about Scholar Who Walks The Night - I miss the days when we were alternately cussing that drama out and drooling over all the men and hanboks (and somehow did it without dragging in competing dramas all the time). That was like the perfect way to get a good commenting experience out of a drama that's less than perfect.

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Yes I miss it....This is not our usual happy place :(. I'm thinking by eps 5 we'd concentrate on the dang show because there is a lot to talk about. I can't even get pass the first page.
I have to rewatch all 3 this weekend because I'm a bit distracted.

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Seriously, I'd rather talk about THIS drama, flaws and all. I don't see the point of getting mad at the drama that got higher ratings, or its fans.

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LOL! LJK and Lee Soo Hyun's performances (and hotness) were the only reason why I watched that (otherwise bad) drama! :-D

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I loved their scenes together <3

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OMG. I'm one of those who religiously swoon on Scholar regardless how bad the ratings are. That's why i asked recently (ep 2 recap).How was the SK rating our busines when we don't have control over it.

Correct me if i wrong and i'm sorry if i have to namedrop a Drama but this i think all of this started between W and UF. And Then it became W vs Doctors (which don't make sense).

Again i'm sorry if i'll offend somebody. It's just an observation. I could be wrong.

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Nah, I've noticed something of a recent pattern of fans of lower-rated dramas getting mad about fans of higher-rated ones too, or getting defensive about the poor ratings of their own. It's weird to me.

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My guess is that it is people new to the phenomenon of watching something from a distance to its source. I've been watching kdramas since Coffee Prince days, so I am used to the disconnect between what international viewers (represented here) and South Korean viewers (represented by ratings numbers) think and feel about a drama. It used to shock me, to see how my beloved drama-of-the-moment was ignored by local viewers, and translated comments from local net sources were very surprising (often obsessing about things that were trivial to me) - but now I just take it as a matter of course.

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Actually, it all started between doctors and beautiful mind, then came W and UF. Anyways, I think it's not as important who started but stop it and enjoy our favorite drama regardless it has high or low rating, same thing let the other fans enjoy when their fave drama is doing well in ratings and stop ranting. We all deserve our time of joy at leadt when watching dramas.

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All caught up! I'm surprised by how much I'm liking it! Ok, but Wook and Su are seriously starting to tread on dangerous waters now, and it's beginning to make me feel uncomfortable! Thank you for your fun and speedy recaps, Javabeans! Hope you're feeling miles better!

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tbh I just want Hae Soo has some arc to do because after 3 episode, this story is all about wang so journey to find his place in the palace,
this part of the story executed real good but just that,

the music and editing become better and I feel like this is LJK show with KHN as second lead who is really good at portrays his character even without clear direction on his plot, maybe he'll become wang so's ally.

the other part of the story is not that engaging, the problem for this drama besides thr lack importance of the femalr lead is we already have another wang so's story before. Even with weird ending, this journey seems familiar.

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Well, I don't blame them. I gave 3 episode to IU to make me like Hae Su as much as Rouxi but I just don't feel it. Do not ever give roles that require shifting form bubbly, charming to restrained to somebody who is only decent in her capabilities. IU ain't bad but she isn't spectacular either. With her capabilities it remains to be seen if she can make me warm up to her character more. I think it was a wish decision to focus more on the 4th. But the problem there is, it takes away any depth from the other princes into the mix to the point I say, change the channel, why are you on my screen when they appear on it. The bromance isn't working either. I expected epic bromance but the feelings are not there.
Lee Jun Ki can rock his role and Kang Haneul too which is why this drama works to the point it should. The palace politics is so dated that I could recite in my head who will say what after this or that. Rest is a mismash of bad editing decisions and poor taste for Saguek music. For a pre-produced drama this is a sad mess.

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It hard not to draw comparison when ruoxi in ep 1 already give some clue that she'll enter the palace in 6th month for the concubine (?) test and I waited for Hae Soo to have something to do for 3 episode.

this may come as nitpicking but even if I saw this as separate story,
I still don't find we need hae soo from the future for this story,
why not the real hae soo?
she can get amnesia and have some childhood flashback with the 4th prince,
feels like real hae soo will do better in plot for this kind of story,
yes she depicted as timid but the future hae soo also acted like a love interest without her own journey so far,

it's episode 3 and even other drama already established their main role journey at this point, at least she need to have something,
I don't think I asked too much,

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agreed!

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I'm trying very hard not to nitpick because I really enjoyed the original. One the other side I love the history so when something is outrageously out there, it turns me off.

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"require shifting form bubbly, charming to restrained"

I don't think we can judge though, Hae-su's still in her early character arc where she's supposed to be naive and child-like. Which has been what IU's portraying thus far. Of course you're not going to see a restrained performance when that's not currently how the character is written.

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Maybe I’ll pretend there’s a convenient birth secret involved that history never knew about
I'm with you on this..

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Me too. Though it's still icky and brought all my 'ewwwwww NOOOOO!' faces out.

I mean, even if there was a birth secret, for all intents and purposes they're still siblings/know each other as siblings.

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Me too! Although I shouldn't be surprised. It's common in the early kingdoms (and not only in Korea but in other nations too) and from what I've learned when I took History of Korea class, there's so much more eww-inducing historical events than this. However, once again, during those times, it's the norm.

I think it affects me more because this is the first sageuk drama I've seen wherein the story is obvious on the extra-marital stuff on the leads. It's always been the side characters or the parents who have 2nd or 3rd wives or concubines, but not the leads.

I don't know how I'll feel if Su, being a modern woman who I think has/should have the modern sensibilities, will entertain Wook while he's married (especially since his bf cheated on her with her friend). Or are we to think that Su is a completely different woman now from her modern self?

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I knew it was a thing in other places but if it was historically accepted in Goryeo, we have to live with it in this story.

I really want to see how Su/Wook play out, myself- the show has told us (however poorly that telling was executed) that Su is into self-preservation, and it's going to be interesting to see if that means accepting that Goryeo has different ideas about acceptable relationships than she does.

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That was one thing that bugs me about the novel. She is a modern girl and no one was forcing her to have a romantic relationship with these married men but she did.

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@Kiara - I get what you mean, but on the other hand I have to remind myself that I loved Splish Splash Love which also had a modern girl falling in love with a married man. And all of them have wives giving the ok to take another girl as concubine. It takes some getting used to.

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I complained about it and still manage to watch the whole show lol.

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I actually find it somewhat refreshing and hope the drama addresses it. Wook and Su for me are peanuts in contrast to what will go down between So and Princess Yeonhwa,

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Nothing will shock me more if something goes down between the queen and #3.

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@Yoyo, now THAT is something that'd make me sit up and take notice. Mama's boy in all senses of the word, eh? But since this is a prime-time drama and on one of the big 3 stations, I think a lot of the "enlightening" stuff will probably be toned down.

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I swear, that bath scene made me thought of it. I don't know if you guys watched the movie The Treacherous (with Joo Ji Hoon, Im Ji Yeon. Shocking movie, that. O.o), but the mommas in both have the same vibe going on. O.o I kind of expected something to happen when #3 took the pot from the mom.

Huh. Purely childish thought, but aren't you guys glad there's no second prince? O.o

Come to think of it, why is there no second prince? And all those other princes in between? Are they all dead?

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#think

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@Erratic - I think Prince 2 is dead.

@Yoyo - so I'm not the only one getting Oedipal vibes off Eyeliner Prince?

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@junny - if they the network is looking to spice things up, then yeah, it's possible. But since this was pre-produced, we'll only get as much vibes from the queen and #3.

@erratic - the bath scene with the tea made it a bit more obvious. I guess they want the viewers to read between the lines.

@pogo - #3's eyeliner is giving marilyn manson a run for his money.

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@Yoyo - I have to say, that's some very successful sneak eyeliner PPL - I really want to know how he gets that waterline so dark.

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I can deal with the extra marital stuff, its the part about So's half sister and mother of his children, which is what's bugging me. Damn you historical accuracy.

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I swear I'm just going to think of them as the Borgias: Goryeo edition.

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I think many drama leads in saeguk has wives before, it just not too prominent for the sake of OTP and sometimes they are bad,
as example
The moon that embracing the sun
Dong Yi
Splish splash love
even Queen In Hyeon Man

almost all prince/kings have their official wives that isn't the female lead

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@Sancheezy

Addding to your list..Six Flying Dragons

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Yep, Six Flying Dragons, The King's Face, even Jang Ok Jung (granted, the last one had her stint as the head among the concubines).

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Exactly, there's no shortage of prior dramas featuring kings/main leads who are already married or have concubines.

The modern concept of adultery doesn't apply to the kings at all, since monogamy wasn't even nominally expected of them - they could marry and then take as many concubines as they wanted, and when we had a system where even the sons of concubines could become Crown Princes in their turn, it's pointless to talk about 'cheating'.

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At this rate it seems impossible for this drama to even reach 10%.. I feel so sorry for the cast :(

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I'm going to be so sad if the ratings don't go up. Lee Jun Ki is so good at acting, he really deserves this!

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In my honest opinion this show lacks depth, the writing is lackluster,and the acting is not good. The 4th Prince is the only character that comes off as compelling and who I am fully engaged in when he shows up on-screen. The Chinese version of Scarlet Heart, the female lead had a bigger presence considering she was adjusting to a different time period and was shown trying to actively return to the modern world. I also think with the 4th Prince killing the horse, him killing the monk assassins, etc the bloody violence is coming off gratuitous. I have to say that with amount money that was invested and it being so heavily promoted

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I disagree about the bloody scenes being gratuitous actually-they all serve a purpose.

1. Horse kill = Wang So basically giving the Shinju clan a big ol Middle Finger, since he's done being their hostage now and also a way to impress upon the people in the palace that he is indeed bad to the bone and better not be messed it.

2. Monk assassins = Well they attempted to kill the CP Wang Mu, and since they had no tongues, couldn't share their information anyway. Also had he left them live, they would have been headed for the chopping block.

I'm not a fan of gore just for gore's sake either, but I think these were well placed.

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Ugh holy typos Batman, when will DB have an edit function?

*and better not be messed WITH

*had he LET them live

Oy vey.

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I think he killed the monks because he did not want it all linked back to his mother. Even if they could not talk, they could just point out, or write (was education elitist is those times?), or someone might have seen one of them with his brother etc etc...

He basically destroyed all evidence that had any potential to harm his mother.

Though i'm sure mommy dearest is going to be a bitch in the next episode.

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Education was mainly for men in those times, if I'm not wrong. It's not like girls couldn't. They either couldn't afford it, or it would be less favourable if they sounded smarter than men (though girls from noble background were allowed to learn if they wanted).
I'm not sure about the other monks, but the head monk sure could read. If he couldn't write, he could just point to certain characters in a book to point at the culprit.

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Ah excellent point about the pointing to characters thing, and yes, the head monk could have provided info, but I'm pretty sure Evil Queen Mommy wouldn't have allowed that guy to cross into the palace alive.

I still think the scene served a purpose, if only to highlight Wang So's badassery- they didn't linger on the death scenes for which I'm grateful.

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Thank you. So Even a 1000 years ago, good education was hard to come by. Nothing really changes? eh?

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Not in Goryeo or the 3 kingdom era. Shilla had 3 reigning queens ruling the country. The pro education Queen Seon Deok is said to be very intelligent.
Women had more freedom back then compared to the Joseon era.

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I think everything points out that he eliminated them all because otherwise his mother would do the same to those poor tongueless assassins. Also, that monk would have no issue in rounding up more tongueless assassins to serve the queen. All in all proves that So is destroying Mum's paths leading to power outside of the palace.

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Thats an interesting theory. So was WS saving mother from being outed or cutting down her minions and power?

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So still loves his mom. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

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Maybe he's seeing this as an opportunity to blackmail his mother into doing what he wants? I don't think he was protecting her.

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He definitely killed the monks for the sake of the Queen, both to save her and to restrain her. That killing spree was quite heated, I think he's out to get her, but won't have anyone else to do the job either. I can already imagine him saying something heroic-stupid in the next ep, like, oh, hi mom, here's your wolf-dog that you loathe so much covering up for you, do it again and I won't be so nice anymore. And she'll return the gesture by saying, oh, thought I'll be grateful? Strike me if you dare! No? You're a dog, alright. Cue, So storms out, possibly even more depressed. Ta-taa!

Which makes me think...can Monday come faster please!

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I can’t wait to see how everything will play out between So and his mother. I’m not sure if he was really close to the crown prince or if he also had other motivations when he agreed to protect him and uncover the true culprit. Now I can see him being conflicted between the crown prince and his mother. I was surprised that he actually helped her by killing the assassins and destroying their hideout. It’s clear that he still cares about her and desperately wants her affection and her acknowledgement. I don't think he is going to blackmail her. I'm not sure what his main goal is. He wants to live with his family again though. Does he want the throne? Power?

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I hope Wang So uses this to blackmail his dear mother to prolong his stay in the palace. That women makes my blood boil. Some good old fashioned fright and blackmail is well deserved for her.

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I also think that So killed all the assassins in order to cover for Mom since Crown Prince showed up shortly after to the scene to find the culprit/evidence. But I thought So was on the side of the Crown Prince? Or maybe he still loves Mom more even after all those upsetting things she did to him?

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@Mel my theory is that by keeping the crown prince from taking is a way to protect him from the queen's wrath. If he finds out about the queen's involvement with the Monk he'd be a lot more in danger, and in return the whole palace would. So yeah, in a way So is perhaps doing all the dirty work to protect the royal family, after all the King doesn't seem that bad.

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I agree with @Eva that he killed the monks both to save and to restrain the Queen. If the King & Crown Prince gets evidence that the Queen is behind the assassination attempt, the Queen & her whole brood, 3rd, 4th & 14th, would all be killed or imprisoned.

And I don't think he's truly on the side of the Crown Prince considering the CP used him as his substitute in the assassination attempt. He's helping the CP because the CP promised that in return he can remain in the palace.

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I agree @bips99. That was definitely the feeling I got also, especially with the line about there's a person here who talks too much. I think #4 is still trying to protect/earn his way back to Momma's love with slaughtering all those who could link back to her. If it was just #3 plotting I don't think he would've done the same thing. I also didn't get a sinister, deadly feel to him showing up in his mother's bedroom...more like I just did a horrible deed for you (with bloody sword and clothes are evidence it isn't lip service), please acknowledge me/tell me I did something good.

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Long live the queen.

Now all we need is a talking mirror, a hunstman, maybe some dwarfs, a poisonous apple and maybe throw in a couple of birds merrily chirping; then we'll have our fairytale.

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OMG, I actually thought of Snow White's wicked queen when I was watching Queen Sin.

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Couldn't they give a written testimony? ;-)

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Couldn't agree more with JB's comments about the flow and abrupt scene changes. The editing is bad and it seems the production team is now aware of this issue from the viewers because they are re-airing EP 1-3 but with re-edited version (supposedly better). They also took in consideration the negative comments about the BGM/OST.

Article: http://entertain.naver.com/read?oid=109&aid=0003386494

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REALLY? THE GODS ARE GOOD. But honestly, that's what was killing me about the fact that this is pre-produced, that they couldn't go back and change these things. But if they can, this drama has the potential to be so great. I'm so glad they're listening, I guess the low ratings made them take note. Hopefully more people will get interested through the re-airings.

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I guess fixing how the episodes are edited and the OST and BGM is easier since they have the raw cuts/scenes than say the issue is on the acting of the actors. Once it's shot and done, that's it. It will be difficult to call back the cast to re-shoot. I do hope they fix it because the drama is so beautifully shot and the overall acting is okay.

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I honestly don't think the acting is bad, it's just over-emphasized with the insanely close zoom ins and terrible editing and background music. It wouldn't be anywhere near as awkward without that. So if they can tighten up on those things, this could be really good.

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+1

Since this is most likely filmed using multiple camera set up, I wish that the editor use more clips from the cameras other than the camera devoted for closeup shots.

The time (in seconds or minutes) used in showing those repeated closeups of IU and Lee Joon Gi on the horseriding sequence could be used for something else.

Say, when Hae Soo was crying inside her room before Wang Wook barged in and trying to decide on what to do (before coming up with "I want to live"), he could insert a flashback of Ha Jin's conversation with the man who looks like the astrologist that you can only live differently if you die...

Some shots could really go to the B-roll or Deleted Scenes.

This is the job of the Editor, among other things.

The editor's judgement on
whether a shot or frame or scene is essential,
which shot should come first,
the sequence of the shots,
should there be a slow motion for emphasis,
put texts to explain a context or tell amount of time passed,
use an haunting melody for a particular sequence,
interchange or flip or bounce back and forth between 2 scenes of meetings of opposing factions, for example-
etc.
he's basically proofreading everything (what the writer wrote in the script and the director has filmed) to make the audience feel the FEELS, and follow the events of the story.

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It's water under the bridge now.

It'd be better if they choose to edit the rests of the episodes that hasn't been aired instead.

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I'm kinda stunned. Do they not do any audience testing in SK. The issues to be fixed are minor and could have been fixed early on if they had tested some early episodes.

The drama is visually gorgeous. LJK and KH are giving solid lead performances. IU's physically spunky, loud and hapless overacting is irritating from ep 1. Saving grace is her chemistry with the two leads.

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This episode was so good, finally everything worked for me!! Even the intense close-ups didn't bother me as much because they happened in intense scenes, rather than comedic ones, which actually turned out pretty well. Even the comedy was fun, I was vastly amused in the Eun/Su scene where she has the moment of "what on earth?" and says quite frankly "I didn't realize they've been using that line for a thousand years. " which was such an incredibly meta moment because that's pretty much exactly how all the princes feel about her, and the narrative seems to suggest that it's not so much about traveling from the future that makes her different, because that line is so commonly used between ordinary lovers from all time-periods.

Wook and Su have such an intense chemistry and sexual tension, it's incredibly frustrating, because I honestly am so torn about them. Who knew Kang Hanuel and IU, who were so adorable in the BTS, would actually be incredibly hot in action. I'm wondering now what the original set their relationship as, since all the female leads in both the book and the Chinese adaptation also traveled from the future and had modern sensibilities. On the one hand, I don't want to be spoiled (any more than I am historically lol), on the other, imagining all this chemistry going to waste- ughh.

Thankfully So and Su also have great chemistry, and I'm looking forward to their development arc since IU suggested that theirs is more slow building and mutual understanding, than in instant attraction, as it is with Wook (they certainly implied it was a pure "first love" sort of feeling, but I don't feel this purity in their dynamic, when they're just so intense somehow and I constantly want to be "get a room already.")

The fight scene was so well-shot, I just don't understand how this drama is this mix of terrible editing decisions and gorgeous scenes. But this episode really set the story in motion, I'm so excited for the rest of it. I hope it keeps building on this momentum. For their sake, I really hope the ratings rise, because this drama is really deserving of it, and since this is just the first week, wherein every episode has improved on the one before, they deserve that chance. Not that I imagine the lackluster domestic response will make any difference to their international popularity, which is already set to skyrocket.

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Wook and Su have such an intense chemistry and sexual tension

I KNOOOOOOOWWWWWW! It's still mind-boggling to me. It's not a surprise that things feel that way from Kang Haneul's end, but the real surprise is that it actually works with IU. IU!

(though that really shouldn't be a surprise, not after the mic-fixing scene in Producer. It's just weird to see it in action even when she's playing a character who doesn't seem to have realised that attraction yet)

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I think playing characters falling in love is one of IU's stronger suits, I absolutely love it. But also, this is reciprocated sexual tension so it's killing me even more!! (Although tbf, even that single POV Producers mike-fixing scene killed me as well). Like every scene they were in together was gold. They're dragging me to this ship, even though I actually didn't think too much about it during the previews. Their moments have so many undercurrents!

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Yep, it was hot even when he didn't yet seem to realise he was attracted to her or she to him, but now that they are.... WHOA. And for once the PD's love of close-ups works beautifully when it comes to showing off their chemistry - I was holding my breath a little during that medicine-application scene.

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(spoiler to original)

In the original, 8th Prince was her brother-in-law in Qing dynasty. 8th married Ruoxi's sister Ruolan, but the sister had no interest in 8th and was hung up on her dead lover. 8th really cared about Ruolan, but Ruolan thought 8th had a hand in causing her lover's death and so bore a grudge against him for making him marry her, so it was all one-sided on 8th's part. So 8th and Ruoxi started a relationship but that fizzled out when she tried to make him give up his fight for the throne (knowing how it turned out for him in history and wanting to avert that), but he wouldn't.

8th also had a first wife Minghui who was smart and loved her husband and looked out for his ambitions, but he never realised it until it was too late. Ruolan was 8th's concubine.

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There's no point comparing this drama to the Chinese original because this is Korean history after all. Goryeo is Goryeo and Qing is Qing. The countries and periods are different, so how can you expect the same story.

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I'm not comparing, where in my post did I compare the two? The original poster Zoe wanted to know how it was in the Chinese version, so I just wrote it up.

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It wasn't clear that you were replying to Zoe. Sorry about that, but I've seen so many commenters comparing the two stories when the context is entirely different, that it's been getting on my nerves. Have a good day.

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Ahh, that's what I was wondering because I'd have imagined that Ruoxi would have gotten an equal amount of criticism as Hae Soo is going to get if something happens with Wook. But that makes sense, although it doesn't seem to be the case here, since it seems that the wife actually likes Wook, though I don't know if she's in love with him. And here it's definitely not one-sided affection on Wook's part. This is interesting though, as a storyline I'm curious to know how they're going to explore it.

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Yes, this is not just a political marriage - it seems there is love and affection between Wook and his wife and that makes me squeamish about Su's interference. But consider this: Wook's wife is childless. In that circumstance, he would be looking for a concubine. If he loved his wife, he might wish for a concubine he knew his wife would also love and get along with. And any child from that partnership would have his wife's bloodline.

So I'm kind of wondering if Su wasn't brought into the household as a potential concubine for Wook in the first place. That's not to say Lady Hae would be happy if he loved Su more than her though, but she might have seen it as a solution.

It was a cynical age.

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Oh, wow, that's absolutely fascinating. I never even thought of that, but it's not entirely out of the realm of believability. Sometimes I wonder if we're forcing an anachronistic value-system (or its opposite as the case may be) on the events. In the sense that does the wife necessarily feel the same about her husband's relationship with another woman, as we assume she does? Or if polygamy or the keeping of concubines is culturally acceptable, would its reception also be different amongst the people of the time, and not a 'betrayal' as we assume? In fact, you made that really interesting point that Lady Hae might even prefer that Su be the one that her husband continues the bloodlines with. And that has made me realize that we really don't know why Su was bought to the household. On the surface, it's to take care of her cousin, but her cousin clearly already has a lot of people to take care of her, and Wook did suggest that "I'm the one who bought you to this house, so I'm going to protect you."

I do think the show is probably not going to "go there," because dramas are usually very concerned about the likeability of their female leads with the audience and less concerned about historical accuracy. It would be fascinating to see more conflicts arising from these dichotomies instead of the convenience of first killing Lady Hae off before exploring that relationship further, as is probably going to happen. But I can't even blame them because even DB commenters have mentioned that they could never like Su if she started anything with Wook. Which, on the one hand, makes sense because she is not from the time and should have modern cultural sensibilities, but, on the other, stops short a lot of dramatic tension and ethical dilemmas that would arise from this kind of a conflict. Even with the incest angle; while I get that it's uncomfortable for the modernaudience, the erasure or easing of historical truths to make them more palatable is hardly the best solution.

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"I just don’t understand how this drama is this mix of terrible editing decisions and gorgeous scenes"

You worded it so well, Chingu.

The editing is really bad.

But everything in this drama is actually soooo beautiful. The casts are such a beauty. The costumes are gorgeous. The decoration is breathtaking... I'm amazed by the ritual scene decoration, both inside and outside the palace. I can tell they worked so hard for this.

The ingredients were great... too bad the chef wasn't skillful...

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According to a lot of articles, they're apparently taking cognizance of all the complaints about the editing and re-editing, which, YES!!! I'm so glad they're actually listening to what people are saying because it's honestly sad to see a drama with so much potential bogged down by easily reversible bad decisions. I'm hoping that one major flaw in the drama will be eased now.

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Re-editing sounds great as it's badly needed. I hope they also cut out the weakest links in this show - ALL the princes, except for the 4th and 8th, of course. With so many talented young, handsome actors in Korea, how did they end up casting a bunch of high school (not even second) third level leads?!

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Also, I often find that BTS vibes aren't much of an indicator re: how the onscreen relationship will feel.

I once finished this (not Korean) series featuring a couple with the most intense chemistry I've ever seen in anything, ever - and then found that, based on bts interactions/interviews etc, the two actors involved seemed to be for the most part indifferent to each other and simply didn't gell in real life. But they managed to bring out the best in each other while they were in front of the camera.

Though obviously, it bodes well if actors are comfortable with each other - Pinocchio was a good example of that.

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Oh god, this is a bit off topic but I have to chime in with a Friends reference. This reminds of Chandler's girlfriend in a play. According to Joey's theory, if the couple have great chemistry on stage they are indifferent IRL and vice versa... He was right, the girlfriend was cheating with her costar while the chemistry on stage was gone at some point. LOL

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That's a really wonky rule - I very strongly doubt Lee Jong-seok and Park Shin-hye were indifferent to each other during the making of Pinocchio ( if you've seen the bts, you'll know what I mean).

Same with the couple in the 2012 Spider-man movie (started dating while they were making it, and their chemistry was the best thing about the movie). Or all the Spencer Tracy/Katharine Hepburn movies (they're one of the all-time great screen couples of Hollywood, and they had an affair that lasted until his death). Or Johnny Depp/Winona Ryder in the late 80s, or Brangelina in Mr and Mrs Smith... too many to name, really.

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Queen In-Hyun's Man. I rest my case.

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WELP how could I forget!

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Although I just couldn't get through it, apparently Ahn Jae Hyun and Gu Hye Sun had great chemistry in Blood, lol.

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Oh yeah, and Lee Min-ho/Park Min-young in City Hunter.

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Lol, that reminds me of Logan and Veronica in Veronica Mars. Apparently Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring did not get along at all, but their chemistry was insane. Thankfully, the director listened to the viewers in that one and not the actors, so there's something to be said for audience involvement at least ^^

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I didn't know that about Veronica Mars! Those two really had great chemistry, even though I wasn't a shipper.

For reference, the two I was referring to were Jamie Bamber and Katee Sackhoff in Battlestar Galactica. They didn't seem to hate each other, but certainly seemed like they were just colleagues and not best mates. And unfortunately, the writers and showrunner did get swayed somewhat by actor sentiment there. /sigh

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Not that I imagine the lackluster domestic response will make any difference to their international popularity, which is already set to skyrocket.

I agree! Does anyone has info regarding how the drama is doing overseas? I mean I read somewhere that it is being broadcasted simultaneously in various countries. That would be interesting to know, cut Korean ratings honestly baffled me.

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I read elsewhere that the Chinese youku stream clocked up 100 million views within 16 hours, for the first two episodes. (other recent dramas have been considered very successful with less than half those views in an entire week).

I hope the Korean ratings don't detract too much from enjoying the drama - and since it's pre-produced, at least the production team/crew/cast don't have to endure the suck of working on it in that environment.

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Thanks! 100 million views in less than 16hrs! Wow! O. O

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Very well indeed apparently! I think this is only the first week so the reactions have been rather overblown and there hasn't been much news of what's happening outside Korea, since there's so much dramatic tension in the Korean media. But it's doing extremely well in China right now and there were comments saying it was trending in other countries as well, but I'm not sure.

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It's incredibly frustrating shipping Wook and Soo knowing they won't en up together. The chemistry, the underlying sexual tension is there!
I'm going down with this ship definitely (even after knowing BBJX).

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The sexual tension was so strong this episode, Hanuel and IU really sold it. I wasn't shipping them during the promo period but now I'm hardcore shipping it. I know they're not endgame (and I really like Su and So as well), but I really want to see where they're going with this.

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"This episode was so good, finally everything worked for me!! Even the intense close-ups didn’t bother me as much because they happened in intense scenes, rather than comedic ones, which actually turned out pretty well. "

I agree sooooooo much with youuuuuuu!! Everything works perfectly in this episode! and those close-ups, while not common in most shows, or commonly bastly misused, they are a statement in Scarlet Heart, specially in this episode as they actually convey something that enhances the scene.

Excellent!!

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Same! I realized that these zoom ins which are so annoying in comedic scenes and tend to make everything 385347% more slapstick than it needs to be (and is 50% responsible for the "acting controversies") actually works in intense scenes because there the micro-expressions are important. I hope they're used wisely hereon and not gratuitously because it actually was really hard for me to like some scenes in 1&2 just because the close-ups were so awkward. But this episode really made me enjoy the use in certain scenes.

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this show is about iu trying to figure out who is Gwangjong of Goryeo. LOL

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I can't believe IU didn't figure out who Gwangjong is yet. Ruoxi sure knew who the next emperor was...

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Goryeo history was quite different, there were several next emperors, and their Korean names were so similar to be confusing, what with Wang Yo, So, 2 Wooks etc. They also didn't call their princes by numbers, unlike the Chinese, so it was pretty obvious to Ruoxi that the prince who was named & called "4th prince'" was the next emperor.

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Just to add on to what's already been said, it would've been obvious to Ruoxi because pretty much every Chinese person knows Yongzheng (4th prince) succeeded Kangxi. I'm a Singaporean Chinese who knows close to nothing about Chinese history, but even I knew about the Nine Lords' War many years prior to watching BBJX (the rivalry between the 4th and 8th princes, the fate that would befall 8th and 9th etc). It's just that famous.

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For a fully pre-produced drama, I do not understand why the story feels like it was written yesterday. This is full of cliché plots. The first three episodes are full of fluff. I am so annoyed by it.

Granted, I expected a lot. I mean way more than any others from this drama. But this has a huge budget, the least they can do is fix the story first. Don't give me mommy issues. Really, that's all the writer can come up with? In addition, why do the music and editing feel like they received the tapes this morning. They are not being used effectively. I am also annoyed at them.

Now, if this wasn't fully pre-produced, then I will actually enjoy this drama. Lee Jun Ki sizzles in his scenes. I do adore Baekhyun's character. Kang Ha Neul's entrance on the first episode left me speechless.

I am not sure yet if i will watch next week. I will either wait till it finishes. Or maybe just watched Moonlight since some of the gifs I saw are adorable.

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Why let the pre-production prejudice you? Why not just enjoy the drama? And why not just watch both?

The first few episodes are supposed to be the happy times when they were young (Ji Soo's supposed to be like 14 years old), before they all get embroiled in all the scheming & fighting for the throne, and turn against & on each other.

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First watching I found the premise strangely familiar, then realized it remind me of reincarnation trope in Jp light novel/ otome game. After watching to third ep, yep, this is basically otome game.

Heard Korea viewers don't like it. I like it tho, it's sort of addicting in casual way, like potato chips. It's not gourmet meal but before you know you already devour it all. All girls in my house are hooked xD. Thanks for recapping all three in such a short time, JB!

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This show is trending so much on Naver, it's crazy. It has 5 clips in the current top ten.

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Your comment had me check out what those video clips were ^^

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I know, I was surprised even though yesterday Moonlight had more views, only SH clips were in current top 10 and today, I checked, a Moonlight clip has more views than any SH clip and yet it is nowhere in top 10.. I wonder what algorithm they use to choose top 10 because Moonlight clip has more views and likes than SH clips and yet they're out of top 10 and top 100.

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The answer is very simple. There have been a lot of streaming for ML so definitely it will be trending. Oh, MDBC was in Top 100 today though.

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We are talking about the videos on Naver, right? Yesterday and today, there was a Moonlight ep4 clip that had more likes and views than any SH clip and was not on top 10 or top 100 even though both shows release their clips on Naver at the same time.

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It is rather surprising because the Moonlight ratings are so high. But I guess there has to be some algorithm, it can't be random because the people involved with the dramas whose clips don't make the cut would have raised a fuss about it, so I'm guessing they were streamed more or something, that seems the only reasonable explanation. Because something that trends is not usually the one with the most views, like when the Weekly Idol cuts came out, it took over some spots even though they were not the most viewed overall. There is clearly a different algorithm for trends. In the morning SH had a huge number of clips in the top 50.

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How would you stream a naver video? I find tvcast operates similar to youtube with their views, likes and 'trending' so I identify the # of streams with view count and yesterday, 1 Moonlight clip (ep4) had a lot of views and there was about a 200k difference with the highest viewed SH (ep3) clip and it was nowhere on the Hot trending list. None of the Moonlight clips were on it but I find most of the SH clips even though there was 2 with views on par with SH and 1 with significantly more views. Now the highest viewed SH clip is catching up with the highest viewed Moonlight since it's been on the front page since yesterday generating a lot of views.

So yeah, it's pretty confusing. But I'm guessing Naver also takes into account of comment activity? I heard there's quite a heated discussion in SH videos due to people leaving hate comments and fans spamming the comment section to hide those negative comments.

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I streamed them the regular way, they way you would do re: a YouTube clip I think, they usually work? Someone did mention above that apparently MDBC is geolocked, which is possible (though I did see clips of it, but just not in the trending section and you suggested that you saw them as well.) It could be comment activity-- but it's definitely not just total views, if it were, then newer clips would never make it in the trends at all since they'd take a longer time to catch up with the existing clips. I'm guessing it's like Melon, where it counts the trend or the chart toppers through the number of people streaming in a moment in time rather than overall views (or at least I guess that's what it does.)

There isn't much of a heated discussion though, which becomes obvious in the clips section. In fact accessing Naver directly because I was curious about how bad the reception was, that made me realize how much the translated articles just picks out one out of a hundred, and some with way more upvotes and positivity.

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@Zoe, I think they update the trends on a periodic basis, probably hourly, so those trending could be the most viewed during the last hour.

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Looking forward for next wk sleepless night again..
I had just finished ep 3 subbed. I am very pleased & entertained though i find some bloody scenes kind of scary.
LJK is so good. Even IU & KHN scenes are so funny & entertaining.
Love this. I was never bored.

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I feel like many people expected epicness right form the start lol the epicness is all at the later half of the show. Now the princes are still young and haesu is still a teenager,of course it has to be more light hearted. I'm really happy whenever I see cute 10th prince and the other princes getting along well now, because we all know they wouldn't in the future and their fates are all really different and sad. There are so many possibilities with this show. I really like to know how history takes its course, how would the 4th prince change from an unfavourable son to taking the throne, how would the princes fight for the throne and who would haesu end up with if she even ends up with anyone. I think the plot will shoot straight up once haesu knows that the 4th prince is gwangjong, the future king and I'm really curious about how she would react, will she try to change history or will she be carried along by history?
P.s. I have given my heart to the 8th prince the moment he saved haesoo from the killers and 4th prince and when he comforted her when she cried. All the scenes with him are so heart flutteringgggggg. Weirdly I'm really not bothered by him being married to her cousin because I'm 100% sure they don't have romantic love for each other and men could have many wives a thousand years ago so its not morally incorrect for him to like haesoo and the original version was even worse where he was married to her sister and liked both her and her sis lol.

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I'm one of that many people. Kekeke.

Please don't kill me. The first teaser seemed so epic and I bought it.

But now, I've accepted the fact that this show is not gonna be as epic as I thought it would be.

And now that I let go of my high expectation... I'm pretty much enjoying this show.

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This is how it happens in Goryeo history: Taejo Wang Geon (the king) dies and the throne is passed onto the 1st prince Wang Mu (posthumous king name Hyejong). Historically, Wang Mu died of disease after reigning 2 yrs and was succeeded by the 3rd prince, Wang Yo (aka King Jeongjong). Historically, Yo died of disease after reigning 4 years and passed the throne to his younger brother, Wang So (aka King Gwangjong). Gwangjong reigned 26 years before dying and passing the throne to his son, Gyeongjong. Gyeongjong reigned 6 years and passed the throne to his cousin, Seongjong, the son of the 8th prince, Wang Wook. As for the fates of the other princes, the 9th prince Wang Won gets killed for planning a revolt against Wang So/Gwangjong. 13th prince Wang Wook/Baek-ah lives the longest among his brothers, and his son becomes the 8th king of Goryeo. 10th prince Wang Eun's fate is unknown, but his daughter marries Wang So's son and becomes queen.

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Whew! Thanks! I understand it better now. *thumbs up*!!

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The first two episodes were underwhelming but the 3rd episode was sooooo much better. Super intense and mostly everyone's acting looked good. Baekhyun is without a doubt the weakest link in this drama and I think that it would have been better to save some of his scenes until later episodes because I think his scenes really fueled the acting controversies in the first two episodes.The editing was a lot better in this episode as well, idk what was going on in ep 1-2.

I love LJK but KHN stole my heart <3

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The drama is ok. Certainly there have been worse dramas rewarded with surprisingly good ratings before. 7% and last place in ratings seems a bit cruel for a heavily promoted and expensive show like this (+ it might discourage preproduction in the future which is bad news for cast and crew slaving away on set day and night). It is my understanding that Monster has veered into pretty ridiculous and silly territory, yet ratings remain decent (although it's hard to drop a show after watching 40+ episodes). For the sake of LJK and KHN, I hope the drama will get some decent ratings in the following episodes. And also for IU, who is already being scapegoated for the failure of the drama domestically. There are problems with the acting, but directing and editing aren't helping either.

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7% is really sad especially since it dropped from ep 1-2. Hopefully it will be on the rise because ep 3 is better than the first two eps.

Maybe the lesson for the production team and the network is to not over-hype your own drama like it's the next big thing that people will surely love. Promote it properly without going overboard.

It's difficult to really pin down what viewers will like anyway. So far it seems those dramas that have been promoted adequately and even inadequately are/were the ones that did/doing good (even ratings-wise). There will be exceptions of course, but since it is difficult to know if your drama is that exception, might as well be modest.

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Was it really that overhyped? I know UF was called the next DOTS, that is some pretty heavy overhyping indeed and it understandably backfired on them. Their promo tactic was pretty eyeroll inducing.

For this, I know they released posters upon posters, there was that photospread in Cosmopolitan, article about being sold to China for a record price, PD praising IU, but I don't know, it didn't give me the impression they were so overconfident in the show's success like in the case of UF. It felt more like the production team was less assured and really hoped and needed the drama to be a success. That is just my highly subjective impression.

Maybe people are angry UF turned out to be such a disappointment and it's affecting this drama as well because people are less willing to buy into the hype of a preproduced drama with record sales to China and young eyecandy cast. And also because it makes people feel less gullible and more opinionated if they choose to not watch something they are being told they should definitely watch.

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Even after 3 episodes I don't like this drama. They should have picked a better writer because this one is seriously lacking.

I wonder how the Chinese viewers feel about this very different BBJX.

Even though LJK is great here I can't bring myself to ship him with the heroine. They're making him the cliche A**hole with a Tragic Past who insults and mistreats the heroine until she somehow falls for him.

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LJK's character is actually a pretty uncommon romantic lead as far a kdramas go. I mean he just massacred a bunch of people at this point he is seriously unhinged and damaged. Like he's way beyond the angst of a typical kdrama hero with issues at this point.

On the other hand they've also made him comically emo, with the black clothes, the hair covering half his face and the ugly phantom mask. I laughed at the scenes where all the princes sit around and moan about how much of a downer 4th Prince is and LJK enters to room dragging his feet being all like 'eugh no one understands my pain..'

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oooomg, I will now lmao every time this happens. I just laughed so hard at the thought of it that there are tears in my eyes. Thanks! ?

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Now I know why chaebol's are needed in kdramas. Damn you, chaebols.

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LOL

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Of course its a different BBJX because its a different country in a different time period. This is Goryeo dynasty not Qing dynasty. The stories are going to be different. For example, here the 3rd prince is important because in Korean history, he actually succeeds in taking the throne for a few years before the 4th prince does. That didn't happen in the Chinese version because the 3rd prince didn't do that and therefore not given much thought.

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I don't always feel like I got to have likeable OTP to ship whenever I watch dramas or movie.

Just like in CiTT or Empress Ki cases. I didn't like the OTP in both shows. I just couldn't buy their love story. But I still loved the shows regardless. I enjoyed seeing their dynamic as a couple in an unhealthy relationships. I found them very interesting.

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I much prefer to observe a humanly-flawed protagonist rather than a choirboy with a halo... It takes guts for an actor to play a role in which the character is not 100% squeaky clean or perfect. A couple of cases in point being LJG in TWO WEEKS, Eric in QUE SERA, SERA and OH HAE YOUNG AGAIN (ditto for the other 3 leads!), and Jang Hyuk in BEAUTIFUL MIND. Also, Cha Seung-Won in MY SON. I'll take a layered character performed by a subtly-emotive actor capable of delicate nuance any day of the week... even when it takes some hard work to get inside their head. Bring it on, #4 Wang So!

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I am unfortunately getting very strong 2nd lead syndrome right now. Save me, I know I will be getting hurt sooner or later...

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There is something about IU that is lacking. Maybe because Liu Shi Shi grabbed my heart right from the start. Its not that she is bad or she sucks. She is decent. I have admired her both in Pretty Man and Producers but she lacks the screen presence that I expected from her as Hae Su, the protagonist. She just does not ooze the charisma required from her, making her a foolish damsel in distress too often doesn't help her case. I get that she is confused and adjusting but Hae Soo sure is a stupid character so far, Rouxi was a brat but never a foolish brat. Rouxi never got on my nerves and when she was swaying Roulan was always there to calm her down and guide her steps. And Rouxi only laid her eyes on 8th after fully confirming how indifferent Roulan is to her husband and how loveless the marriage was. Roulan passively gave them blessing of sorts. Here, every time Hae-Su and 8th have those hormone charged moments, my automatically goes to infidelity angle. And that's saying a lot after admiring the C version where she was a mistress to 4th, never being an official concubine.
Having said that, I do admire Lee Jun Ki more and more, this could be a wonderful Sageuk in its own. They don't even need so many princes in the mix as they are mostly useless and will serve no purpose historically speaking down the road. I don't know if Goryeo is well documented period but Qing sure was which gave each of the princes more to deliver character wise.
Bottom line, forget the original C version, watch it as a different drama and fast forward the silly, boyish princes and you have a drama that is very enjoyable.

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I have to agree with your assessment about IU. It also doesn't help that Hae Soo is written with no depth that it feels that she is ornamental and most of the focus is placed on Lee Jun Ki's character.

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Hae Soo and Rouxi are completely different characters. Plus the way they tell the story is also different. In BBJX, it was from Rouxi's perspective, but in MLSHR we hear Hae Soo's thoughts but the the exposition is completely different. Although Hae Soo is a main character, I don't think she's the protagonist, that would be the 4th (since the focus is him fighting for the throne).

I like how IU is portraying the unruly spunky girl, however I'm upset that the writer just made her that (so far). The writer hasn't provided any depth, she's just the girl the princes are interested in. I have hope though, because there are hints that she's observant and her interactions with the 4th prince show she's strong willed.

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Am I the only one concerned about the real Su? What happened to her? Where did she go?
Is she in her own rom-com drama about a Goryeo girl who travels forwards in time and must adjust to the 21st century ways of life while navigating the waters of modern dating with the present-day Lee Jun Ki?

Maybe she's also decided to live out her life in the future because hello, electricity and cars and better make-up and lack of assassins.

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Maybe she’s also decided to live out her life in the future because hello, electricity and cars and better make-up and lack of assassins.

And indoor plumbing and easy access to painkillers (for period cramps), and if you catch the attention of the wrong boy at least you don't risk dying.

(assuming she managed to avoid Ha-jin's creditors and hasn't been loan-sharked to death)

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Let's not forget the difficulties of modern day life.

Maybe she's struggling to tie her shoelaces and confused about how to open a zipper.

Also the whole get a job, make money, and no more slave girls thing has got to be confusing.

Poor real Su.

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well, she could always hope to Kim Boong-do her way out of it.

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A talisman, a talisman, my kingdom for a talisman...

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Real Haesoo died.

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why does he have a half mask? feeling half super hero? acid from an ex lover? bdsm gone wrong? uggghh so many questions

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it's to cover the scar,
from the flashback on ep 2,
her mom accidentally give him that and that deemed unworthy as a prince (probably)
but idk how big the scar is,
I only can imagibe Zuko type of scar when I saw that half mask

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They explained that in one of the flashbacks in the first or second episode, I think. His mother used him as bait against Taejo and held a knife to his neck when he was a child, and accidentally ended up slashing across half his face, leaving scars.

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He wears the mask to hide the scar he got from his mum. They showed it in he first episode, if you happened to have missed it ^^ although with the moves he displayed today you are not far from the half superhero assumption hehe

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thank you all, note should not skip have patience gaaaa

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I absolutely loved that scene when Su asked Wook to also sleep with the metaphorical lights on, because he may suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. And how sorry she is that he had to kill for her, and he's so startled that anyone would ask or care. I like it when elements of modern sensibility creep in so unnoticed in scenes like that. Especially because Wook deflects initially, and there's the realization that just because they didn't have a definitive name for it back then, doesn't mean that people didn't suffer or feel the same way even a thousand years ago, that killing or love or attraction or rejection didn't affect them the same way. The scene with Eun, as comedic as it was, drove home the same point. I like the idea of human emotion as the unchanging constant.

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I found that scene to be touching, too, and for the same reasons.

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You know what... After 6 seasons of GoT, I don't care anymore about incestous relationships. The show has successfully corrupted my mind.... :s

Rating of ML might be low, but somehow I am hooked. I just want to know when So will falls in love with Su, and the love triangle! Can't wait for mon-tue...

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Haha i was just thinking that. When they mentioned the princess being So's future wife i was like meh okay sure. I wasn't even getting why people were getting so grossed out by it when incest did literally happen in that time. GoT really has desensitised me to most stuff.

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LOL. I watched GoT too. There are many incestuous relationships in that show... on and off-screen.

But it still surprise me that KDrama is bold enough to bring this trope to their show.

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Also, three more things.

1. I laugh every single time So's mother is mentioned in the recaps because it's like Su, So, Yo, Eun, Hae, Mu, and Queen Sinmyeongsunseong.

2. I really, really like Baek-ah for some reason. Nam Joo Hyuk is coming across as rather charming. He fits the character well.

3. javabeans deserves all the applause for somehow managing so many well-written reviews of this drama in so short a time, almost immediately after airing, despite the extra episodes. You've worked hard!

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1. Hahahah, IKR?! Her name is just so ridiculously long, I wonder if Javabeans has it saved somewhere and just copy and pastes it or if she now knows the spelling by heart..if so gold stars for maximum effort!

2. Yes, Baek-ah is my favorite of the 'Little' Princes too-He somehow seems older than both Princes 9 and 10. He's got an interesting side plot brewing with Lady Hae that i'm intrigued by

3. All of this. YAY JAVABEANS.

Also, I really like Crown Prince Mu...someone else mentioned Game of Thrones here so does that mean I shouldn't love anyone because they'll just die?? (Leads currently exempted of course) Sending good vibes to the Crown Prince esp. since he's one of the few in Wang So's corner!

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The problem would be easily solved if Javabeans referred to her as Queen Yu since the Koreans call her 황후 유씨, which literally translates as Queen from the Yu clan, but whatevs.

I also love Baek-ah, too. His mom is actually from the now-gone Silla dynasty, which makes his character related to me (I'm descended from Silla kings). :)

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I’m descended from Silla kings.

How very interesting! Has there been any mixing of blood since in the line, or are you Korean? (...or is that a weird question.) It's absolutely amazing how far back so many Koreans can trace their family tree- my friends can, and there was a person who said to me in one of the other DB threads that they were related to Wang So, since they were descended from his line. That is incredible.

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Yes, I really like the Crown Prince too. One of the few who likes and supports Wang So. I hope he survives the bloody war that is coming up soon.

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Sad to say, historically, his death (from illness) causes the bloody war to happen.

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Oh no! That's sad.

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Hahaha, and it's even funnier because it's smack in the middle of all these one-syllable names and sounds so grand. I'm sure she'd have liked that, judging by her "I should be the best dressed there."

Re: Baek-Ah He does! I've heard criticisms of Joo Hyuk's acting as well, but honestly he hasn't done anything worth being criticized about at all. He seems to fit that artistic, ladies man archetype to the T.

I like Crown Prince Mu too, I totally forgot that there must be other princes because we've only had 7 promoting. He seems nice, which means he's definitely doomed, lol.

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yeap! I too like beak ah's character sooooooo much! just so adorable and at the same time very manly with some sort o beautifulness! however nam joohyuk has done a super job in playing a historical figure!!! also lee joong ki aka wang so is so much good in expressing his feelings !!!!! I support both actors so much !!!

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Yes, I like Baek Ah too but I want someone to change his hairstyle and head piece. Don't like the ribbon. I wonder if he was in love with Lady Hae before she married Wook. Or maybe just close friends.

Thank you, Javabeans for all the hard work!! I appreciate the fast recaps :)

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Haha, I think it's supposed to emphasize that "I'm a lover, not a fighter" air that he has about him. It does look like he's in love with Lady Hae though, that "you know how I feel about you" seemed very fraught. But of course he's ultimately destined for Seohyun's character.

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Ah ok. Thanks for explaining that.

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Maybe the Evil Queen is a bit like Yubaba. She stole everyone else's extra syllables and adds them to her name.

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LOL

This made me laugh out loud literally

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Hahahaha. I immediately imagined Queen Sinmyeongsunseong in animation ^^

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Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

*gasps for air

hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahhaahahaha!

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the fans here are so defensive, what's wrong with weak drama get criticism?

I didn't even see the original but this drama just become half good on ep 3, the plot has direction and the prince has their own place,
the queen is the poisonous, it is the typical saeguk and we need to see how this will play out even if it kinda predictable with the saeguk trope, ljk will become the king and even though I enjoy the other prince , only ljk and the eyeliner hjh has story at this point,

I don't see the point of having too much prince, is the original like that?
if they cut the goofy prince and others like the fighting and the art guy, this drama become way better,
the wives also weirdly playout, I need explanation why she married with khn, she seems to love him but he looked liked platonic towards her.
and why is the crown prince trust ljk and not khn, too much blank space ...

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- if if they cut the other princes the drama will be not better, but more plainer - i'm not talking the bromance in the original, i'm talking the bromance in the future. now we have a team carefree prince who grew up together, have good relationship with each other, but they need to choose in the future.
- the marrige between wook and lady hae happened probably for political reasons
- both prince are outsiders: the crown prince are older than the others, he spent his time not at home, but next to his father on the battlefield and so has his own issues.
and do not forget that he saved so's life who is indebted to him, and so is the only prince now who had no chance to be the next king

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but the princes doesn't have to be goofy and childish, we also have the other prince, my suggestion is.to cyr 3 from 14th?? at least we have at least 11 more character,

the marriage is all probability

I get that he is indebted but Isn other prince in the palace ISN trustworthy?

I think the drama has too many things to fill by assumption and not given the actual information,

and is the 3rd has the same mok with the 4th and 14th?
I clearly read 8th and 3rd has the same mom but having 4th mom groomed her just weird

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- all family have goofy and childish members, and we have only 2 really goofy and childish prince: the 14th the youngest and the 10th, who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he is honest. emperor taejo has a lot of children, but he drama focusing only these children of him.
- for the crown prince So is the only safe choice. the crown prince does not know who wants to kill him, but he know that can not be So. he was sent to two years and he has no friends and allies at the court.
- the 3rd the 4th and the 14th princes are full brothers, the 8th had only a sister princess yeonhwa, and all of the other princes have different mothers.
about assumptions and informations: honestly, i like that we can make our assumptions, it make it more interesting for me: it's like an intellectual game, and we only watched 3 episodes: it's not the main course, this is just the appetizer

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@maryland, "Why the crown prince trust ljk and not khn, too much blank space …"

Because someone wants to kill the CP (by poision, dead bird in Ep 1), and it could be any of the princes in the palace. It's not LJK because the 4th prince is living somewhere faraway from the place as a hostage, so he has no connections or people in the palace. I also think that the astronomer who supports the CP has been secretly visiting LJK on the CP's behalf to form an alliance between LJK and the CP.

"I think the drama has too many things to fill by assumption and not given the actual information"

For me, that's where the fun is.

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I absolutely love this show and was surprised to read the reception to the drama hasn't been all that great. Perhaps because I haven't seen the original and have no expectations? Perhaps because I'm blinded by my newly discovered fangirl love for Kang Haneul? A little of both? Either way, I marathoned all 3 episodes and can't wait for next week!

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I believe that could be one of the reasons.

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Thank you for the recap JB, the subs a late for this drama and your recaps are of great help to understand the converstations, and the plot.
I'm not really keen on historical dramas, but I kind of have a soft spot for the goryeo era ( the hair !! ) and I decided to watch this one to see if I could watch more historical dramas in the futur, also I've given up on LJK doing a modern time drama, I loved two weeks so soo much.
So far I like it, 4th prince is my favorite, but those close up shots are still annoying, I guess that's what you get from the PD of TWTWB

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@Milenia,

You might enjoy the Manes of Glory during the Gogoryeo era. LAND OF THE WIND is epic...

THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK-HYANG is set in Paekche during the Three Kingdoms era, and is my gateway sageuk. Don't be put off by the 108 episodes -- they're 35 minutes. With Seo Hyun Jin in the title role, droolworthy kings and princes, a terrific supporting cast of veteran character actors, great swordfights and battles (Yoon Tae-Young is seriously lethal, when he's not with his scene-stealing non-son, Choi Ro-Woon)... LONG HAIR... and (gasp!) a happy ending. The cinematography is gorgeous. The sound track includes the lyrics of the oldest extant Korean folksong, IIRC, set to modern traditional-sounding music. Plus a couple of lovely dances. Mata-Hari meets My Fair Lady. -- Enjoy!

I just watched LJG in TWO WEEKS and thoroughly enjoyed it... The pacing was great... reminded me of the relentlessness of SIGNAL. The ending was totally realistic in my book.

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If NBC-Universal is reading the comments, could've at least bring Scarlet Heart: Ryeo to Viki?! Europe and Middle Eastern fans are waiting for them to be available there :(

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I'm glad they aired three episodes this week because I wasn't 100% sure I was going to keep watching until this episode. My only issue is I feel like the actors all have their own idea of what genre this drama is meant to be...Lee Jun Ki is filming a dark thriller by himself while some of the young princes are in a silly slapstick comedy; it's a bit jarring to go back and forth between the two.

I am loving the chemistry between Su and Wook even though it is very wrong and I love Lady Hae. I'm not too worried given that Su sees Lady Hae as a mother and was also recently cheated on. Wook is a bit more concerning but I think he hopefully should be able to control his urges. Unless he suddenly goes off the deep end and starts poisoning his wife so that he can live happily ever after with Su. Because killing your wife is worse than having an adulterous affair (even in dramaland).

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"Lee Jun Ki is filming a dark thriller by himself while some of the young princes are in a silly slapstick comedy"

Lol, gotta agree with this one. I've always found Lee Jun ki's acting to be intensely dramatic, but he does it so well, that you know he's going to keep you hooked. I'm loving the intensity he's bringing to his role here, but the downside to that is it makes the weakness in the young'uns acting all the more glaring because of it.

I marathoned all three eps, and was entertained like no man's business, but upon reflection, I can see that the drama (like all other dramas) has faults. But heck, I'm in it for the long haul, so long as it keeps me entertained!

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@namedx,

I like to think of it as LJG's intensity raising the bar for the rest of the cast... Like electricity, it might just induce a galvanic response in his fellow actors. At the very least, the young ones will gain valuable first-hand exposure to a masterful performer.

Come to think of it, Jang Hyuk is another intense dude who does his own stunts... another of my faves.

My seatbelt is buckled for the duration...

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"At the very least, the young ones will gain valuable first-hand exposure to a masterful performer."

For sure. *thumbs up*

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Thanks for the recap.
The last 10 minutes of the episode were fabulous. Lee jun ki is fabulous.

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First, of i am thankful that jb is recapping this, if i dun get good ratings, at least i get an awesome recap!

With regards to the other moon drama, i heard its funny and maybe the local koreans just want something light and easy after a hard days work.

But i was never attracted to that drama becos the cast are too young for me. Yes, i am an ahjumma and I prefer a rich complex story and an ensemble cast.

Yes i agree maybe the over publicity raised expectations too high, but we are not even talking about a 10% ep 1, clearly people are not tuning in, even to give it a chance.

So anyway, i am in love with everything here and the big whys are not bothering me becos i figure they will be answered later.

I am not even a lee joon gi fan to begin with, but now I am thirsting for more. Roar...

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If you don't watch it then it's wrong to assume why one work over the other. After a hard day at work is not good enough point as Moonlight snatched half the audience from SBS to KBS. Moonlovers is not bad, in its own it's decent. Music, ordinary plot, average acting, editing and direction issues for a pre production is hard to ignore. Is moon Lovers perfect?? No but it has the upper hand over all the above mentioned issues coupled with a young yet talented cast that is delivering. Also a clever take on the political issues. Moonlight is more innovative and fresh in my opinion compared to Moonlovers. A clever spin on an age old crossdresser story with a side story involving a father son due and their struggle to keep the family safe. Scarlet Heart is a balloon that has two many rocks keeping it down. If it wasn't pre-produced, I'd say cut some loose example all the boy prince, the evil mother and her bath time, go easy with the camera, tone the music and edit better. Looks like they will edit again but I don't how much will it help the cause.

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tbh the other drama has heavy thing in the back seat,
rich complex story and very rich cast from the kings to the younger crown prince, they just had a better humor and pretty young cast,
so... I don't think the comparison is valid, especially if people haven't watched both to compare.
it goes beyond what people expect and the 1st 2 ep is still light then turn different in ep 3 -4
so I think you need to give it a try to have a better comparison next time

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I have a question regarding consorts in Goryeo:
Is there not a specific highest ranked consort in Goryeo palace? Because now there are (at least) two living queens (Queen Sinmyeongsunseong and Queen Sinjeong), although Queen Sinmyeongsunseong seems to rank higher than Queen Sinjeong because of the order they became consorts (#2 and #3). But still they share the same title of queen.

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#3 and #4 queen*

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A lot of the many queens scenario is due to the fact that Taejo is Goryeo's first king. He had to marry several times to finally unite the Korean kingdoms politically. (He united Later Baekje, Silla, and Later Goguryeo) Therefore, he married 6 women from prominent noble clans of equal social status, so all of them are queens and equal to each other. He also had 24 other consorts. Later kings only had one queen and one or more lesser consorts.

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According to the Special episode SBS aired that gave some historical background on the Goreyo period, there wasn't any ranking system among the wives & concubines during the Goyreo times, and everyone had equal status. This is in total contrast to Joseon, where there was a definite hierarchy with the queens/concubines.

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Thanks @ Charlotte P and Table122000 for your reply. I was thinking what they need to do if there are some disputes among queens since they have equal standing. Guess they have to take the issue directly to the king.

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@Table122000,

I've been looking for this special episode on YouTube's SBS channel, but to no avail. Could you point me to a link with English subtitles, please? Many thanks!

Also, it's not clear to me how old the princes are. I haven't seen ages mentioned, but maybe I've missed the boat. -- Again, thanks!

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@PakalanaPikake, Based on Goryeo history, Wang Mu will rule for 2 years after which Wang Yo will rule for 4 years before Wang So takes over. Wang Yo & Wang So were 22 & 24 respectively when they became kings, so they should be around 20 & 18 or younger. Wang Wook is the same age as Wang So based on a comment he made in Episode 1 or 2. Haesoo is supposed to be 16 and the 10th prince is around her age. 13th & 14th princes are younger than them, so they could be 14 or 15 years old.

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@Jan,

Many thanks! All I can say is, some of these guys look big for their ages. ;-)

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@PakalanaPikake,

I think you mean "built" right, lol.

Anyway, I discovered on re-watch that the drama is set in 942, so the princes are even younger than I thought. Wang Yo, Wang So & Wang Wook are 19 & 17 & 17.

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I loooveeeee how they made modern hajin as a make-up artist (sort of). Then she/hae su could conceal wang so facial scar with make-up and unmasked him later on.

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I'm looking forward to this scene taking place! As much as I'm loving her chemistry with Wook, there's no denying that it's just plain wrong for her to even contemplate taking it any further, irrespective of the difference in time and values! But, assuming that the 4th prince is still unattached, that's a ship I can definitely get behind! Sure, they're the leads anyway, but it's nice seeing that the two have chemistry early on in what little interactions they've had.

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The first time I watched Lee Joon Gi and Hong Jong Hyun was on this week's Running Man.
Now I need to binge watch their dramas.

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How many episodes does this show have? .........It'll not be tragedy..........will it?

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@galaxystars
It was my concern too! I half heartedly let myself get attached to this drama..because idk..i kind of sense it will be a tragic ending..if HS have to go back to the future only to meet WS look alike that dont know anything..that is the most terrible ending it will be..because the whole experience of HS will be kind of like a piece of imigination or just a dream and not real..if HS died in the goryeo period even she is finnaly with WS-still sad ending- a happy ending will be they live happily ever after but how can we explained HS in history? And since when in k-drama the ending is just as predictable and happy as this is?
Please i have so much worry to sail in this ship but i just have to..i'm doomed?

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I like watching sageuks and have watched a few already, but I don't think I've watched one where the main characters and supporting characters had such close familial relationships and still were romantically linked together. It's getting into icky territory for me, but I'm gonna try to get used to it.

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Well, its more like, this sageuk is more in your face about it. I still remember watching Queen Seondeok (2009! man, its been a while), and a lot of the romantic couples involved people who were related. Seondeok had a romantic relationship with her cousin, Kim Yushin, and later with her father's cousin, Bidam (Bidam is her age). Her sister, Cheonmyeong had also married her father's other cousin (Bidam's half brother). So, yeah....at least they're not siblings, lol?

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I'm watching Moonlight also but Moon Lovers is not that bad. They're like two cafes, they offer something different. IU isn't too bad but she needs to ease up on the bulging eyes look. It's really distracting. Some of the princes in the drama are really awkward especially the really young one and the artist one so it's hard at times to watch when they're on screen. I haven't watched LJK since My Girl but wow I'm impressed with his presence on his screen.

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Thanks for the recap, javabeans!

Honestly, I am rolling my eyes at PD Kim Kyu-tae right now. I feel like a lot of the blame for the editing complaints lies at his feet. He said he wanted this drama to have both historical and modern elements - modern meaning the OST and a blend of modern and sageuk speech (hence why some of the actors don't sound authentic for the time period). IMO, they need to get rid of the modern OST asap. It completely ruins the mood - especially at the end of episode two. All that tension! ... and then an upbeat pop song. No, thanks. Is there a way they can stop using the OSTs in the drama and just sell them independently, or are they obligated to play each song at least once?

That being said, I like this drama so far. I am willing to take the ride with these characters. I want to see Hae Soo come into her own, and I'm looking forward to seeing Soo and So fall in love. I like the chemistry between IU and Lee Jun-ki already. It will be fun. Is it a cerebral, innovative drama? Not really... but sometimes you just want a drama that has a story you're interested in and characters you can root for, and Moon Lovers has that for me. Looking forward to next week!

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I just realized this reception reminds me of all the Producers controversies in the first two episodes where the k-audience disliked it and they changed the direction after the first two episodes and re-edited everything already made. Is IU doomed to a lifetime of dramas doing that, lol.

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I wonder if the re-edits can salvage this? Because there could be an interesting story there, if they only let it emerge from behind all the insane zooming close-ups, the cringeworthy music and some of the more contrived situations.

Also, Producer had Park Ji-eun steering the ship. I don't know if the team behind this can be trusted to make us love Hae Su as much as Cindy, or whether they're capable of directing IU right.

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@Pogo
I absolutely forgot who was the captain of the ship named Producers, Park Ji-Eun. You know what is sad, I think Ha Jin in present day Korea had the potential to be maybe a far more interesting character than Hae Su is in Goryeo. You know what , that scene of her being chased by the mob of angry people whom she owes money, reminds me of, a bit of a spin-off into Seoul Station and more homeless people and we could have a whole new drama. I think IU certainly did a far better job as Cindy than she is doing so far as Hae Su. Some people need better directors to extract the right performance out, maybe this is the case for her.

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I found IU a lot better in ep 2, to be honest - something similar happened in Producer, where she suddenly picked up the face around episode 4.

Hope she's able to do the same here - it's frustrating when you know an actress has the ability, but the direction is not getting the best out of her. And even with that, I think she's expressive and charming. Though nothing can beat Cindy - that was one perfect meld of actor and material.

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I don't think I could possibly love Hae Soo as much as Cindy, Cindy was the actual queen. And Hae Soo has been fairly blandly written till now, which I think is a shame. This is much more So's story right now, than Hae Soo's, which is why we're not getting enough of her emotions on anything related to the period. idk why they've made her so loud, because IU is actually not bad at comedy when it's situational, like in Bel Ami.

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@pogo,

The burning question for me is: How are they going to release the re-edited episodes, let alone differentiate them from the original iterations? I'd like to see them.

Going forward, are they going to tweak the remaining 21 episodes prior to airing them?

Thanks for any news you might have. ;-)

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@PakalanaPikake, According to gg01's post above "SBS said that Moon Lovers will re-release this Saturday the first 3 episodes with better editing and changes in the ost that made some viewers uncomfortable."

And I really hope that they will tweak the remaining 17 episodes too.

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Where can you watch it do you know??

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I hope the editing will take away some of the issues bothering the viewers, the closeups and OST. Hopefully more people will tune in to watch this. I really want this drama to do well for all the cast, especially the leads.

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I know! I've been excited about this drama for months, I don't want all the negativity to ruin that, especially because I genuinely like it and think the only thing it suffers from is bad editing and music direction- which apparently they're working on now, and I'm really glad to hear that.

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Let's hope for the best! I am in love with it too now :)

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