I Remember You: Episode 12
by rejoycie
The confrontation we’ve all been waiting for takes place at long last, and it’s one doozy of a reunion. Grab your tissues and brace yourself, because it’s gonna rip your heart out, in the very best possible way. At the very least, it’s a step forward for Hyun on several interpersonal (and personal) fronts, as he learns that he doesn’t have to weather every crisis alone. Confiding in others, and being protected, is perhaps not that big of a deal after all.
EPISODE 12: “If I had to kill somebody…”
As Lawyer Jung promises to “remember” the neglected and bullied student Yong-jae (aka seek revenge), Yong-jae’s mom finds the picture of a radio with the number six, left in the family’s mailbox. Hesitating for the umpteenth time over the envelope, Hyun thinks back to the numerous times Lawyer Jung initiated casual conversation, pondering the possibility of him being Min.
Ji-an reviews the tapes of the interrogation of Yong-jae’s family, as well as the CCTV of Yong-jae getting beaten up. One thing stands out to her: The unidentified witness and Yong-jae clearly made eye contact during the assault.
Settling down in his home basement, Hyun bucks up enough courage to finally open the envelope of truth. He chooses to first look through the records of the murdered victims, who all have the common characteristic of having abandoned someone. Registering that fact, he comes to a shocking realization: Through killing the other victims, Min was repeatedly “killing” Hyun, who likewise abandoned him.
Eventually, he turns over the picture of the supposed murderer, and the identity of Min is confirmed to be Lawyer Jung. The cards are finally all laid out on the table. With the truth slowly sinking in, Hyun pounds his chest in a mix of heartbreak and anguish, as tears spring to his eyes.
Lawyer Jung heads out in his “murderer outfit,” as Hyun remembers Lawyer Jung’s defense of Yong-jae’s family. It hits Hyun that Lawyer Jung intends to finish off Yong-jae’s family, and immediately rushes out to stop him. Multiple calls to Lawyer Jung go unanswered, and now, it’s a race against time.
Hyun makes it to Yong-jae’s house, but nobody’s home. All he finds is the picture of the radio, left under the door. He makes a call to Indebted Friend, and requests for the list of addresses that he found during the background checks. Next, he calls Ji-an, and gets her to contact Yong-jae’s parents.
His subsequent stop is Lawyer Jung’s studio, where he discovers Lawyer Jung’s wealth of double-headed art pieces. As he recalls Min’s similar childhood drawings, we finally get the mini-family reunion as Lawyer Jung appears behind Hyun. Hyun slowly turns around, and the look he has on his face when he sees Little Bro just about kills me.
Hyun confirms Lawyer Jung’s identity, and tearfully apologizes for being too late. In contrast, Lawyer Jung is unmoved, and with his poker face still intact, he stoically agrees that it is in fact, too late. Hyun grabs Lawyer Jung’s hand to check for injuries, although Lawyer Jung assumes Hyun’s looking for remnants of bloodstains.
Lawyer Jung asks Hyun to get to the point, and judging by the way Hyun asks about Yong-jae’s family, he’s practically pleading with Lawyer Jung to deny any involvement, since Yong-jae’s family is not worth Lawyer Jung being destroyed over. Upset, Min angrily questions: “What if I’m already destroyed? If I was already destroyed the moment you abandoned me, what are you going to do?” Voice cracking, Hyun ekes out, “I never abandoned you.”
Flaring up, Lawyer Jung accuses Hyun of not looking for him, and not recognizing him. He cuts off Hyun’s explanation, asking if Hyun wished he was dead. It’s a really heart-breaking and teary scene for both brothers — Lawyer Jung’s resentment that hyung didn’t recognize him, and Hyun’s disappointment in himself for failing his younger brother.
Grabbing Hyun’s collar, Lawyer Jung’s voice hardens and he blames Hyun for sending him to Joon-young. Hyun’s shocked that he would even think that way, although Lawyer Jung’s evidence is that Hyun betrayed Min to Joon-young. Little Hyun had promised Min to keep it a secret, but when little Hyun met Joon-young, he revealed that the real monster is actually Min.
Hyun’s silence confirms Lawyer Jung’s conclusion that Hyun did in fact spill the beans to Joon-young. Just then, a phone call arrives for Hyun, and Ji-an reports the good news that she just saw Yong-jae’s parents entering their house, and has requested extra security for them. Both brothers know what this means, and Lawyer Jung just says that he wasn’t in the mood today.
Hyun offers himself up for Lawyer Jung to kill, since he’s the real target that Lawyer Jung is after, and Lawyer Jung calmly affirms that statement. As Hyun leaves, both brothers break down and let out their suppressed sobs. Oof oof.
Ji-an arrives back home, ready to bug Hyun about the night’s happenings, but something about Hyun’s demeanor convinces her to let the issue rest for the night. Hyun falls asleep on his desk, as he dreams of little Min burying something beneath a tree. Suddenly, Lawyer Jung replaces the image of Min, and now, there’s a dead body on the ground. He jolts awake, and Ji-an is already next to him, sleep-comforting him and patting his hand. He smiles at the sight of her dozing off, and catches her before she crashes onto the table.
He confirms that she’s sleeping, before spilling his worries about Min being a murderer. He starts to ask about a hypothetical situation where he runs away, but doesn’t complete his question. Giving her sleeping figure a final smile, he walks away, and Ji-an opens her eyes, having heard everything he said.
Meanwhile, an unidentified man looks at a photo of Hyun.
Joon-ho visits Lawyer Jung, and notes that he didn’t “handle” Yong-jae’s parents. Lawyer Jung says he didn’t feel like it, and poses two questions to Joon-ho: Did Hyun really abandon him? And why was he left with Joon-ho? Joon-ho merely replies that it was the convenient solution for all of them.
Over breakfast, Ji-an admits that she heard Hyun’s confession about Min. She knows that Hyun said it while she was sleeping, fully aware of the possibility that she could be awake. She prods him to come clean with her, but Hyun tries to brush it aside as a dream she had.
Refusing to let him sweep it under the rug, she says that she was enduring it all this time, waiting patiently for him to take the initiative. He suggests for her to continue waiting, but she can no longer do so, since she can’t un-hear his revelation. Ji-an’s unsure how exactly she can help, but one thing she’s sure of is that Hyun can’t handle it on his own.
Hyun wants to know if she’s coming from the standpoint of a police officer, but Ji-an says that she will hear it as a friend if he tells her. But soon, she will have to wear the hat of the police — so she wants to hear him out as Cha Ji-an before it comes to that. Moved by her sincerity, he confides in her: He has found Min, who was kidnapped by Joon-young, and has possibly become a murderer. Baby steps.
Eun-bok has managed to identify the witness of Yong-jae’s attack from the CCTV, and it’s revealed to be his mother. Due to her negligence, Yong-jae died of assault, and she’s arrested under the charge of abuse.
Ji-an mulls over Hyun’s words, and we go back to their conversation in the house. Hyun refuses to divulge Min’s identity, although he does enlighten her that Joon-young is “nearby.” He lets her listen to Joon-young’s tape recordings, and she has nothing but swear words to throw at Joon-young. She’s shaken up, but more so due to her anger that Hyun was locked up in this basement at such a young age.
Hyun reasons that if Dad had found out about Min’s psychopathic tendencies, Min would have been the one locked up instead. Hyun had tried his hardest to protect Min, but he made a mistake in spilling the beans to Joon-young. He laments all the what-ifs, and regrets not keeping Min’s secret, which might have prevented Min from turning out this way.
Ji-an’s heart goes out to Hyun and she envelops him in a long hug. Gazing at each other in understanding, Hyun sincerely whispers, “Thank you, Cha Ji-an.” And then he gently holds her face and plants a soft kiss on her forehead. Swoon.
Hyun appears at Lawyer Jung’s studio, and at Lawyer Jung’s annoyance, Hyun puts on a bright smile and teases that he’s going to do this more often. Lawyer Jung assumes that Hyun is trying to redeem himself, and Hyun doesn’t deny it. His tone turning serious, Hyun asks for a promise from Lawyer Jung: If he ever wants to kill someone, it has to be Hyun, and not anyone else.
Another letter arrives for Hyun, and Myung-woo is annoyed that he has to play delivery boy again. He throws the envelope onto Hyun’s table, and photos of a body impaled with a metal stick slip out of the envelope. Seung-joo is sent to chase down the delivery man, although he’s already nowhere to be found.
Along with the photos, there’s a Bible verse about how sons will have to pay the price for their fathers’ sins, indicating a likely motive of revenge. Eun-bok contributes helpfully that Hyun’s father was a psychologist for the police, and they start looking into recently released inmates who were arrested by Hyun’s father.
Joon-ho asks if Lawyer Jung wants to reconcile with Hyun, and states that it’s actually not a bad idea, although he was initially against it. Lawyer Jung shoots Joon-ho a pensive look, as Joon-ho receives a phone call from the police. His happy smile at the arrival of a new case is terribly unnerving.
The team and Joon-ho head down to the crime scene, where the victim is an unidentified homeless man, and Joon-ho proposes that the homeless man is merely a sacrificial lamb for an intended target. Team Leader Kang lets slip that this case was delivered personally to Hyun as a possible threat, and Joon-ho takes in this interesting tidbit of information, while noticing Hyun’s absence.
Turns out he’s with Ji-an at home, where she’s starting to be suspicious of everyone’s identities. She pleads with Hyun to divulge Min’s identity, and promises to keep quiet about it. If she discovers his identity on her own, she will have no choice but to investigate it as a detective.
He asks her a serious question: What if someone who was killed deserved to die? Her answer is that no one has the right to kill another, or the right to judge who deserves to live. Myung-woo calls to inform her of the new murder case as well as the threatening letter to Hyun. But when she conveys the news to Hyun, he just deadpans, oh, really?
He slumps back into his chair, and Ji-an shakes him, likening him to a “150-year-old grandfather.” She fails to pry him off his chair, but somehow succeeds by pulling him along with a handhold. Ha.
The team has found a likely suspect in Jo Yong-woo, who was a professional killer and boss of the nationwide mafia 20 years ago when Hyun’s dad arrested him. Hyun’s opinion is that the motive is rather weak, if the murderer intended to take revenge on the son after such a long time. He chuckles that he’s just added one more person to the list of people who want him dead, and Team Leader Kang is shocked that there are multiple people after Hyun’s life.
Convinced that there must be another motive, Hyun commands the team to dig up more information from local news publications, which tend to be more detailed. The team is surprised that Hyun’s so nonplussed, considering that it’s his neck on the line. Ji-an chases after him to implore him to stay safe, even going as far as to promise to protect him, which earns her a smirk from Hyun.
Hyun drops by Lawyer Jung’s studio again, and doesn’t elaborate on his relief that Lawyer Jung didn’t grow up as Dad’s son (as he would have been targeted by the threats as well). He invites Lawyer Jung out for all sorts of bonding activities, which Lawyer Jung promptly turns down, although I would add that Lawyer Jung seems to be walking in time with Hyun’s footsteps.
Joon-ho digs up Dad’s diary and turns to an old news article with the headlines that the girlfriend of a murder suspect died during the arrest. Right beside it are Dad’s comments that the girl might not have died if he had been more careful.
Possibly the best Hyun-bodyguard ever, Ji-an brings him a gas gun for self-protection. She explains that the whole team is hard at work, but she purposely came home earlier so that he wouldn’t be scared alone. He smiles to himself at her antics, but when she gives him the look, he immediately wipes off the smile and hides behind his book. So cute.
Back at headquarters, the team is sniggering at Team Leader Kang, who has to report to his father about his late working hours. It dawns upon him that it’s dangerous for Hyun to be alone late at night, and he immediately sends Myung-woo and himself on bodyguard duty.
Little do they know Ji-an is in the house, fresh out of the shower in casual attire. Hyun is all for inviting the guests in, but Ji-an stops him, labeling it a “newlywed situation.” Lol. He’s amused at her word choice, but she waves it aside, zooming off to sneak out of the window. Is that The Window?
Team Leader Kang and Myung-woo enter and immediately spy two cups on the dining table. Hyun has no choice but to pretend he’s so lonely that he alternates between seats to eat. Ha, and both Team Leader Kang and Myung-woo ahhh in understanding.
Walking around outdoors in her bedroom slippers, Ji-an senses someone following her. She turns around, only to find that it’s Joon-ho behind her. She discovers that Joon-ho has always lived in this neighborhood, which remind her of Hyun’s words that Joon-young was always nearby.
She heads to Joon-ho’s place, and accidentally reveals that she was next door, attributing it to bodyguard duty. The puzzle pieces start falling faster in place, as she remembers that Joon-ho always had an interest in Hyun. His intent stare as she sips her tea is creepy, and Ji-an is stopped from entering a certain room, which Joon-ho claims to be full of embarrassing guy stuff.
He drives Ji-an home (since he doesn’t know she’s staying with Hyun), and she brings up the story of her missing father. She doesn’t know whether to believe if he’s alive or murdered, and Joon-ho asks which would be the better result. Ji-an turns the question back to him, and Joon-ho quotes philosopher Kant: “If you have hope, then happiness will bud from that hope.”
On the other hand, Nietzsche had said that hope is the worst of all evils, because it only extends one’s agony. Joon-ho used to believe that having hope was a good thing, but right now, he’s starting to think that hope might be too cruel. Hm, so he offed Ji-an’s dad’s then?
Hyun tucks Team Leader Kang and Myung-woo into bed, and checks in on Ji-an who’s back in her own house. He’s surprised that Joon-ho was the one who gave her a ride, and she retracts telling Hyun her hunch about Joon-ho. This time, they both nag at each other to stay safe.
As she clears the pigsty of her house, she chances upon all the stalker photos she took of Hyun. In one of them, she notices Lawyer Jung in the background, and wonders at the coincidence. She starts putting together the bits of conversation she had with Lawyer Jung and Hyun, and it finally hits her, that Lawyer Jung could be Min.
Joon-ho shares with Lawyer Jung the details of the latest murder case. When Dad arrested Mafia Boss Yong-woo 20 years ago, his girlfriend was killed in a similar fashion to the latest victim. Yong-woo’s brother had tried to take revenge on Dad, but died in the process. That’s why Yong-woo is hell-bent on revenge on Hyun, and sent that threatening letter. Hyun’s earlier words click into place for Lawyer Jung, and he smiles to realize that Hyun didn’t want him to be in the same position.
Going back to the murder case, Joon-ho puts himself in Yong-woo’s shoes, and doesn’t think that the target is Hyun. Yong-woo’s goal is to deliver an eye for an eye, which means that his target is the person most precious to Hyun. In the same way that Yong-woo witnessed the death of his girlfriend, Hyun has to be alive to see his loved one suffer and die.
Lawyer Jung zeroes in on Ji-an being the likeliest target, although Joon-ho raises the possibility that Lawyer Jung could be it as well. Lawyer Jung doesn’t think that’s possible since nobody knows he’s Min, but Joon-ho retorts that criminals always know more than one might expect.
Ji-an has found the same article about the girlfriend, and sends it over to Hyun. He notes that the girlfriend was killed in a similar way to the homeless victim. It’s interesting that when Hyun puts himself into the murderer’s shoes, he reasons that the likeliest target would be himself. This juxtaposes with our two resident psychopaths’ differing opinions, who would target the person closest to Hyun.
Hyun eventually comes to the same realization as well, and worriedly puts in a call to Ji-an. She picks up, but before she can disclose her location, she turns around to face the footsteps thudding behind her.
COMMENTS
Funnily enough, only this show could portray a window as a foreshadowing device. Last time someone escaped from that window, he ended up in the custody of a psychopath for 20 years. So when Ji-an sneaked out through the same window, it pretty much spelled trouble with a capital T, but hopefully not for the next 20 years.
That said, what a question this episode posed. In rom-coms, we have the typical who would you save if they both fell in the water scenario. But to prove this show is anything but typical, they play the who would a murderer target if he wanted to hurt you the most card. I think it was the identity of Yong-woo’s girlfriend which pigeonholed Hyun’s assumption that the target would have to be Ji-an. But if not for that, like Joon-ho, I wonder if Hyun would have considered Lawyer Jung.
I do believe that Lawyer Jung never imagined himself as a possible target, until Joon-ho’s suggestion manipulated that idea Inception-style into his head. It’s that little budding hope (which may be dashed) that might threaten to further derail Lawyer Jung’s unstable emotions, and fingers crossed that Hyun holds him back somehow, because Joon-ho is for sure going to fan that fire. It’s an interesting dynamic that while Lawyer Jung seems to be softening due to Hyun’s friendliness, Joon-ho is the one constantly reining him back to the dark side.
The brothers’ reunion got me right in the gut, and I never expected it to be so heart-wrenching and emotional for both parties. As far gone as we think Lawyer Jung might be, we still see glimpses of the wide-eyed little brother, who’s just craving for affection and attention from his hyung. Abandonment issues aside, Lawyer Jung seems fixated on the fact that Hyun never once recognized him, and it does make me think, if Hyun had recognized him as Min, would that have been enough to stop Lawyer Jung from going off the deep end?
What was even tougher to watch, though, was how Hyun’s anger and frustration were all self-directed. In his eyes, he’s single-handedly responsible for Min’s psychopathic development, due to a few slip-ups he made when he was a wee little kid which led to this series of unfortunate events. Given Hyun’s perfectionist characteristics, it will be tough for him to forgive himself, although it’s heart-warming to see him going out of his way to make amends and redirect the course of Lawyer Jung’s life. (Fun fact: The actors for little Hyun and Min are brothers in real life.)
Once again, our heroine defies stereotypes in taking it upon herself to be Hyun’s protector. It’s a huge turning point for Hyun to finally accept Ji-an’s outreached hand and let himself lean on her. I love that she knows when to give him space, and when to whip him into shape. Having come such a long way from their initial distrust, it’s their bluntness with each other that forces them to be honest, a quality in relationships that is rarer than you might think.
Joon-ho’s little speech about hope pretty much confirmed that Ji-an’s dad is no longer of this world, which is rather fitting since that gets us both leads in the same boat. Having both lost a father to Joon-young, it’s no doubt they empathize with each other on that front. But what I’m looking forward to is how they will force each other to walk the straight and narrow, and hold each other accountable to repay this evil with forgiveness. It works on many levels that the relationship isn’t some shallow all-consuming passionate romance, but a spark that’s slow-burning but slowly getting stronger. We need no entangled limbs or dramatic displays to know that they just get each other. Which is why a simple word of thanks and a forehead peck was enough to send me swooning to high heaven.
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Tags: featured, I Remember You, Jang Nara, Seo In-gook
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51 lilly9
July 31, 2015 at 9:32 AM
This drama is getting more interesting....
I hope Jian and min stay safe... For Hyun sake, because it will be heartbreaking if any of them die.
Thanks for the recap
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52 miria
July 31, 2015 at 9:41 AM
He's Park Bo Young little brother.
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imzadi
July 31, 2015 at 12:29 PM
Really? So the only two dramas I'm watching right now are with siblings? Awesome :)
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erratic
August 1, 2015 at 1:08 AM
I was thinking the same thing. Daebak.
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OMG it's Healer ?
July 31, 2015 at 12:57 PM
Wait who's Park Bo Gum's little brother?
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whimsicalnet
July 31, 2015 at 6:11 PM
Park Bo Gum is Park Bo Young's younger brother.
And I was just thinking to myself last night, how funny the most talked abt and loved shows I hear recently are helmed by a pair of siblings! some fine acting genes? :)
(ok some would might say IRY is not helmed by PBG but i think it could not be this good w/o him and of cos the role is essential. Details!!!)
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fantasy
July 31, 2015 at 10:07 PM
OMG !!!! wow!!! blessed siblings :)
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53 Hipployta
July 31, 2015 at 9:59 AM
I thought he might kill his foster Mother the police officer....
Ji An is a valid option as well. If he went for Min he'd probably think it was hilarious and dispatch him in a way that would turn police attention to him
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54 gammiron
July 31, 2015 at 12:56 PM
Just started watching this a few days ago, and I can say this drama turns out to be such a great journey for me. This episode especially has become my favorite particularly because of the heartbreaking reunion scene... I don't know how many times I keep watching it and even start thinking about it as I go about life. Great performance from both actors. PBG surprised me the most because I couldn't really see him playing this kind of character in the past but as I marathoned IRY episodes I become more and more impressed by his acting and probably I will start becoming a fan. Haha~ There are still 4 episodes to go and I don't want the drama to end too quickly, but at the same time I can't wait for them to come. Such a dilemma, but it's understandable when you encounter a really great drama...
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55 whimsicalnet
July 31, 2015 at 6:15 PM
Erm... prediction?
possible spoiler?
in my slightly twisted mind, w the foreshadowing of envelopes, I was thinking if the killer would take all three, SIG, PBG and JN and force SIG to choose who he shld kill to keep the other alive.... ah the angst is there's such a scene...
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pastmidnite ?
July 31, 2015 at 8:43 PM
@whimsicalnet
I'm not sure about the killer taking Hyun, but I have the same prediction regarding to Ji-an and Min, and that Hyun will have to choose who he'll save. Min is going to die, isn't he? I'm trying to not put too much hope on a sweet brotherly bonding at the end of the series, even if Min has to be behind bars.
But...what if...hmmm...nah, unlikely, but I'll write it anyway lol What if the person behind Ji-an is the keyboard cop? (I always remember him as Moon shik and forgets his character's name here lol) I know some of us thinks he's just a red herring, but who knows? There's something fishy about him... O__O naah... *shakes head* LOL
Min seems more likely. Or LJY. Although we've had those scenes before. If not those two, then...aaah, might as well see for ourselves next Monday! :-D
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amel
August 1, 2015 at 2:13 PM
OMG finally i'm not the only one here suspicious about that keyboard cop ( moon shik in healer ) , i somehow been watching his every single scene trying to find something weird but then shake my head in NONSENCE :p
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56 Dove.
July 31, 2015 at 6:23 PM
I've been wondering about this.
I think that Joon-young is an accomplice for that criminal, or he at least knows what's going on. I do think he's playing a game with Min, Hyun & Ji An. He's examining them closely from afar and yet keeps a close distance to them at the same time to see how they react.
I think that Min, Hyun & Ji An will all be targeted. We saw earlier in episode 12, Min had received a similar envelope like Hyun did. For Min, his loved one is Hyun.
The criminal had lost his girlfriend and his brother, and now I believe he's trying to do the same to Hyun. The criminal must know enough about Ji An & Min, how they're Hyun's loved ones. I'm under the impression that he must have been stalking Hyun for sometime, keeping tabs on him.
As for the romance, I can really feel the chemistry that Ji An and Hyun have. I love that these two are getting closer more and more in each episode. Their small and imitate moments are really something. It's simple and not over the top, which is enough to make my heart melt.
That excuse that Hyun told the Team Leader and Myung-woo, about the two cups in the kitchen was amusing. It seemed like he rubbed off from Ji An because that sounds like something she would say.
There's only four episodes left, and it makes me a bit sad. This drama is indeed a rare one, and I just can't get enough.
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riarallahssi
August 1, 2015 at 11:05 PM
Have you seen the preview for episode 13? He got away with the cups, but I wonder how he'll get away from his impending blunder.
I agree with you that LJY is the master-manipulator of the final case. I keep feeling like too much about Hyun's secrets are known by the suspect for it to be anybody else. But the brilliance of the writers is commendable. At this point of the drama, a murder case with less impact would have bored Hyun.
Also, is anybody else out there nervous that the drama is entering its final week? Will it live up to the hype or will it die down like most Korean dramas do towards the end? I really hope it'll pull the rug off from under my feet before it ends. i want to be disturbed to no end so that I'll always remember it.
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ian
August 2, 2015 at 11:18 AM
LJY an accomplice? That's interesting. Could it be that this ex-mafia hired killer was why LJY could escape from prison? LJY seemed to know a lot of criminals. It's possible after he killed his family, he was taken in by criminals. Wasn't he caught at a burglar robbery? Seemed like a petty crime for someone of his nature.
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57 pastmidnite ?
July 31, 2015 at 6:29 PM
Great episode again! Love the pace of this show. And the characters. And the creepiness. And the funny. And the angst. And the (subtle but sweet) romance. :-D
I hope IRY will continue to be good and satisfying till the end!
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58 mainhitrnx
July 31, 2015 at 6:38 PM
I seriously hoping that Min would be the next victim, bc tbh Ji An was the victim far too many times already. I'm all about Ji An's fighting scenes, bc they're freaking badass and Hyun searching for her and saving her and their thank-you-for-saving-me/thank-you-for-being-alive speeches, bc it's so cute and adorable, but it kinda gets repetitive. I feel like Min being unexspectedly the victim (at least for Hyun), would fit so much better to the story right now. I just want to see a scene of Hyun saving Min and making him realize that his brother does really care for him. Definitly do not want Min as the next target to get him killed! I might be crazy to feel sympathetic for a murder, but if the writers dare to kill Min- especially before he was able to realize that his brother did not intentionally abandon him- I will cry. Their story is tragic enough!!!
Joon Ho telling Min that killers know more than you think and the similar envelope delivered to Min are like foreshadowings. Furthermore, not only did the gf of the murder die, but also his brother... so it could really be Min.
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59 maripaz
July 31, 2015 at 7:14 PM
Sometimes I watch this show and my heart just hurts, not only because of what's going on in the story but also when I think about the low ratings. Why, Korea, why???? Please get higher ratings so writers and directors and producers can continue to put out high quality shows like this. Don't want future writers to think they can't craft a good story because they won't profit from it!!! Wahh! The more awesome this show gets, the more i want to cry about this!!! (Cannot believe I am getting so emotional over a kdrama but this show is just so good.)
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nuwoy
July 31, 2015 at 7:59 PM
IKR. I read somewhere that this show is popular among national viewer,but not for K-netizen. Maybe they prefer melo and....idol turn actor is one of the factor why other drama like High Society got such high ratings. It such a shame for IRY which is beyond the good drama for receiving low ratings in Korea. But it's okay IRY! Your International fans love you!
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amel
August 1, 2015 at 2:00 PM
i agree with you , i don't know why but good dramas like this are usualy underrated in korea but thanks god they have a huge international fanbase :)
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riarallahssi
August 1, 2015 at 11:10 PM
Seo In Guk is sort-of an idol-turned-actor too... Though he did only win a competition show and I think that's not honored so much by Knetizens---please correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe the drama is too complex and requires a lot of thought-processes. If the viewer were a computer and the drama were a software, then the computer will have to have advanced specifications so that the software can be properly installed.
I'm making this more complex than it should be. Haha. Forgive me.
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nuwoy
August 6, 2015 at 7:06 AM
@riarallahssi.
I just saw your comment while reading back to back recaps.huhu.. That's true. I almost forgot that SIG first discovered from Superstar K show. Guess that he's so talented in acting and makes me forget for a while that he is a singer too! Thank you for reminding me^^
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amel
August 1, 2015 at 2:05 PM
same feeling here :( i wonder if such perfection doesn't seem to appeal to them then what do they want more ?!!!
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60 Bliss2517
July 31, 2015 at 8:14 PM
Kudos to Seo In Guk and Park Bo Gum. They are truly great actors. Their confrontation is heartbreaking to watch. I mean two brothers who long for each and were separed by circumstances. I cried in watching at the moment. They indeed moved me. Truly outstanding performance.
The writers are indeed amazing. They have great story.
Kamsahmida I Remember You for making me hook...
Thanks for the recap!
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61 Jyc
July 31, 2015 at 8:55 PM
Dammit! I didn't realize The Window until I read this recap. The writing! So gooooood. Not one scene gets wasted, really.
And yes, we all saw that confrontation coming but we didn't expect it to hurt this much. Gukkie and Gummie slayed that scene. Also, it can't be said too often: Ji-an is all sorts amazing. I hope nothing bad happens to her. :(
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62 An
July 31, 2015 at 10:30 PM
I am amazed at Park Bo Gum's acting... He carried his emotions really well. The vulnerability, the strong facade, liking the attention yet resenting.. all the little things were done really well! I've never seen him on screen before but he earned a fan.
As for Seo In Guk, he was amazing as well! I was alternating between Hyun and his King of High School character, all boisterous and can't-stand-still-for-a-second character. Two extremes were done so well, I look forward to seeing more of him in the future!
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63 lasya
August 1, 2015 at 12:44 AM
Really...... this is not popular in korea? I cant believe it.this is best one.brothers re union is my favourite scene which brought tears.want to see more affection between them and how they fill their desperate hearts with love from all the seperated years and clear misunderstandings......eager to seee.....
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64 Cooler
August 1, 2015 at 1:59 AM
Just a few observations before the next episodes:
1. Min/Lawyer Jung is a SERIAL KILLER who was prepared to kill again, but stopped because he "didn't feel like it."
2. Hyun knows his brother is a SERIAL KILLER and is keeping it to himself.
3. Min harbored pyschopathic tendencies before Joon-young/Joon-ho got ahold of him. He killed a dog--animal killing is psychopath precursor 101.
4. The first time Ji-an was attacked, it was Min/Lawyer Jung who set her up.
5. The portrayal of women in this drama is not as "progressive" as it's being given credit for:
-Ji-an fights back, but she has gotten the s*** beat out of her EVERY single time. And had to be rescued by one of the guys EVERY single time.
-She has suffered the most frequent violence of any regular character on the show.
-Women have been shown abused, beaten, bloodied, and terrified (or dead) in nearly every episode. [I know what type of show it is, but the imagery and frequency is disconcerting.]
6. Television shows do not receive Academy Awards/Oscars; they get Emmy's.
7. You guys are romanticizing a SERIAL KILLER. Sad story not withstanding. Min/Lawyer Jung is a freaking SERIAL KILLER. That was well over 10 black beads that fell from that bracelet; and that's just the ones that guy disposed of.
It wouldn't surprise me if the writer(s) were later arrested for abusing a woman(en) IRL. Still, though, this has been a top-notch production thus far.
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 6:16 AM
So what is your point? Obviously we have two serial killer Lawyer Jung and Doctor Ho. They both creepy and nothing near to being humane right? Being completely aware what they are doing and not reflecting on it as far as i know description of what a monster is. So the question is can we free them being monsters if we knew why they turn out to be one? We saw nurture side but nature? We are not there yet since we don't know who LJY's father is and his connection to the brothers mother's death case. So this is my opinion LJY is lost case he is real villain and he is trying to draw brothers in his side. That way he can be more at ease being killer. Don't you think it is the worst? Somewhat Min fall victim to this trap of course it wouldn't change the fact that he killed people but still he is not lost case. That's why some of us have faith in him that he will choose to be human again with his brother's help.
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Marina
August 1, 2015 at 7:10 AM
@Wow
Cooler made many points. Read them again. My only question to you is: Which part of "serial killer" you don't get?
Give up on Min character - he is a lost case. The writers won't let him survive the show and live happily ever after coz he killed too many. They will, probably, redeem him a little by letting him die while protecting his brother.
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 7:49 AM
Well I didn't ask you cause it is obvious what you are thinking (judging) but i remembered reading @cooler's previous comments and he has some reasonable theories about nature and nurture that's why I asked his point about that. Since there is other way around what I said in my comment. Brothers father could also be psychopath and it can be that LJY was playing good guy to save Hyun but failed to save Min. That's it. Since we are not writers at least we can discuss different opinions about what are they plotting, got it? What's so wrong about thinking what would you do if your brother/sister would've turned into a monster because of you? This is a drama and main character is Hyeon so i am trying to think like him to find an answer maybe. Enough?
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Cooler
August 1, 2015 at 3:06 PM
My point is that Min/Lawyer Jung is a MURDERER of multiple people. And while he did not elect to murder the similarly socio-pathic mother and he did give Ji-an a reprieve, there will always be the possibility that he will murder again. He has MOVED far beyond the point of any redemption that may occur outside of prison, a prison-psychiatric ward, or the grave.
It appears that Min/Lawyer Jung is both sides of the nature-nurture argument. It's been established that at an early age he was a sociopath:
1. He killed the animal.
2. He lied to his father that Hyun, not him, made those double-headed drawings.
-He was drawing the double-faced men as a child. Those are alarming for an adult, let alone for a small child.
3. He was angry with Hyun for telling Jung-ho the secret that he was the monster, which implies that he knew he was a monster way back then.
4. It appears Jung-ho "nurtured" the monster that was already in him.
-The abandonment argument is only an excuse; it rationalizes a reprehensible response to an emotional pain that many people suffer. Not necessarily on the scale of Min, but still.
Hyun's reaction to discovering his brother has killed so many people is also foreshadowed in the flashbacks. He didn't tell when they were children either. There is the suggestion that even if they had grown up together and Min had become the monster he is, Hyun would have not turned him in.
I would argue that Hyun's characterization suggests that while not naturally a murderous-psychopath, he could have been "turned" into one had he been taken. A desire to not be the monster his father thought he was has been shown to be a factor in his moral compass.
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 5:37 PM
Agree that his fixation is not just one motive because before Ji An he killed Prosecutor Shin just before he was about to spill the beans. And he left behind the card purple flowers on it which is related to their mother. I was expecting that Hyeon would ask about it first but instead he was preoccupied by feeling guilty which is also questionable. That's why I thought that in Min's case it's nothing to do with nature. Remember what psychologist said to his father it is possible kids could be effected by witnessing their mother's death and i agree with that. Dad was also a psychologist but he answered there was other things. The only thing i can think of is nature effect which is only occur to Hyeon. Also there was no reason for Hyeon to doubt himself being a monster just because his father believed he was. You know if Professor is not his biological father then it would make more sense to me. Anyway seems like Hyeon just accepted treatment so he would've learned what can he do for Min. He believed in LJY's words. That's why he regretted it. Min turned out to be monster mainly because of LJY. Sigh...I am not sure I explained properly but I hope you can get my point ^^ My vote for where he is going to end up is goes to...prison-psychiatric ward.
I see, so you think even if he were to grow up with his brother he would still become monster. But I
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 6:13 PM
...But I don't think so for now I will wait to learn about deceased Mother. Maybe she was crazy one we don't know yet. Again if Hyeon won't turn him in for any reason I will be disappointed. Let's see what they have got up under their sleeves
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Cooler
August 2, 2015 at 1:04 PM
@Wow
I am really curious what happened with the mother. If I remember correctly, the purple flower came into play in her death as well. Whether or not the monster was innate or given birth as a result of his mother's death is an interesting question, though.
Right now, I still don't think Joon-ho turned Min into a monster. The double faced pictures he drew suggests that the monster was lurking inside of Min before he was taken. I do believe the manifestation of that monster as Lawyer Jung could be considered Joon-ho's creation, but more of as a student or disciple. The desire seems all Min.
Remorse seems to be set as the determining factor in this drama for who is and who was made into a monster. Thus far, Lawyer Jung has shown no remorse.
I hadn't thought that Hyun may have accepted the basement fate to possibly assist Min in the future. Even still, if that was the case, he was willing to unleash his brother on the rest of the world until he could figure out a way to save him.
seares
August 2, 2015 at 3:07 PM
I think mother would be huge and only twist in this drama for me. Some says LJY tried to help Hyeon but from the very start I sensed he was enjoying to manipulate people and for him Hyun was not as friend(because who would say to his friends father he is a monster too) but as a rival to play with. He kidnapped Min to challenge Hyeon imo. If I am not mistaken Min is also considered as victim. Because even they caught Min if they don't investigate further then they will fail to catch real mastermind. That's why this is about the highlight of the show nature or nurture? If we don't ask then we will never know if we really caught right person. Because even we know just motives you can't go back in time.
I noticed just like you said "desire" is key word for Min. Not motives not excuses. But is is desire to kill or desire to torture his brother by killing people? I am not sure.
Well it's a actually a good thing Lee Hyeon has some knowledge you see he said" promise me if you have to kill someone you have to kill me" this was not to sacrifice himself but technically his way to stop him as profiler with approach of motive analysis. We will see whether it works or not on him. If he had a desire to kill to the begin with like you said his attempt will fail without a doubt.
riarallahssi
August 2, 2015 at 1:08 AM
"I would argue that Hyun’s characterization suggests that while not naturally a murderous-psychopath, he could have been “turned” into one had he been taken. A desire to not be the monster his father thought he was has been shown to be a factor in his moral compass."
True, this was shown in the earlier episodes. This was why at the onset of the show, I was (and probably still am) convinced that Hyun has a tendency to be a monster.
But also, I think LJY's interest in the young Hyun can be born out of two possibilities: (1) Because LJY sensed in Hyun a person who is relatively willing to understand "monsters"; (2) Because LJY sensed in young Hyun a monster in the making.
I'm leaning towards the former. In trying to be there for his brother, Hyun has clearly developed a tolerance for monsters. I'm guessing that LJY sensed this and wanted in on it. Note their conversation over the skeletal remains of LJY's mother: because everybody needs at least one sympathetic ear. LJY's stressor was isolation. He killed the ones who isolated him and judged him. Hyun did not. So, it's a mystery to me why he didn't take the young Hyun with him that night he killed the father...
Still, with all the conflicts that Hyun is emotionally experiencing, the possibility of him hitting the tipping point is still out there. But what Hyun did learn that Min did not is an appreciation for the living, and also the mistakes of the living. So, there's a higher chance that Hyun won't turn out to be a murderer ---------- that is if no one will try to create stressors for him. I think LJY is already ahead of him in that game and is carefully laying out the things that will tip Hyun over. The ultimate stress test on Hyun is about to come.
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Cooler
August 2, 2015 at 1:44 PM
I actually thought it was Hyun's lack of fear of LJH (in a basement room with no one around) that really piqued his interest. After LJH killed the father, he says something like "I did it for you" or "I did what you wanted." I'd really like to know what that request was.
Hyun's covering for Min's behavior is why I think Min would have still become the monster he is. Perhaps not Lawyer Jung specifically, but a murderous threat to society nonetheless. LJH's "tutoring" may have actually limited the scope of his crimes by providing him a specific type.
"But what Hyun did learn that Min did not is an appreciation for the living."
I think that Hyun had to LEARN an appreciation for the living is key. He asked his dad "why" it wasn't okay to kill at an age when he should have already known. The major difference between Hyun and the other two resident serial-killer sociopaths is that he actually had a desire to learn that other people have a right to live. It's not so much that he sees other people's lives as valuable, it's that he's accepted that people have the right to live even the most worthless of lives.
Marina
August 1, 2015 at 7:00 AM
@cooler
Amen. The only way to cure our resident ladies from drooling over Kdrama's serial killers is to cast ugly male leads. Period.
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 8:22 AM
I would NOT despise a father who took revenge on his daughters rapist just because he is an ugly killer tough...You see everyone has different opinions so no need to cure(force your thoughts into) them...I answered because you did the same thing so we are even let's not met anymore we are not on same wavelength
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Cooler
August 1, 2015 at 3:59 PM
@Wow
That vengeance as justice would presumably stem from the father's love for his daughter. While there are some that would argue the father is still wrong (I'm not one of those people), Min/Lawyer Jung is not killing people out of either self-preservation or love for someone who has been victimized.
As of right now, it appears that he's killing them out of a deep-seated hatred (obsessive, misguided love) for his brother. That's actually worse since other people are being killed and in danger because he can't deal with his own emotions. I have a problem when people take their anger out on innocent (relatively speaking) victims. Not only that, he routinely supports and aides monsters. And yes, while it is his job, he could choose not to defend monsters. But he does.
I love movies where the "good-guy" kills and/or beats the crap out of the bad guys. I recently watched one hoping that the bad guy's head would literally get chopped off before the final credits rolled, so I'm not opposed to massive carnage and vigilante justice. However, I am strongly in the "murder is okay if it's vengeance as justice or self-preservation" camp. I'm even willing to give a permit to the camp for some crimes of passion. But not for Min/Lawyer Jung; he is nowhere near the campground with his actions.
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seares
August 1, 2015 at 5:56 PM
Yes i agree with that in real life even its reasonable the though of encountering with a killer simply frightening for me which is why I choose to be an engineer ^^But in fiction who didn't love Michael Corleone even he killed technically for his family(power). So see no reason to judge fictional characters beforehand. But just like you said if most of them are more charismatic isn't that gives less reason to be killer? Just go find and get married with rich/beautiful woman and live happily ever after...
riarallahssi
August 2, 2015 at 12:42 AM
@cooler
Ahhh great points. I'm loving reading your posts here. I also love your optimism and your sense of what is right. That's true Min's character is very very dark. By the rawest essence of the drama, Min is the other wolf and Hyun is the other.
There's also one thing I ask you to do: read this ---http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=2
*borrowing the link shared by a friend from DB in previous episodes.
Whether you read it or not, the point of the article is simple: psychopathic tendencies can be genetic. In some cases, childhood traumas set off the trigger. When a child with such genetic tendencies is exposed to an event that is beyond their mental coping capacity, they cross the line and they never return. They become murderers. In the case of the drama, this is Min. Perhaps, Min has always been less on the emotional side. After witnessing his mother's death (the same way Dexter did), he snapped, broke and became the monster that he is. We now have the given monster--- the one who kills innocents.
If I may, let me throw you a question: is Min a monster that should be condemned, or is Min simply a broken human being that needs help?
From Hyun's point of view: Min needs help. Note that Hyun became a profiler, specializing in criminal psychology. Hyun grew up with an obsession to know more about psychopaths and criminals in his dire need to understand more about his brother (monsters). In essence, Hyun wants and needs to help his brother. Whether it is out of love or mere filial responsibility, the fact remains: Hyun would rather not condemn his brother and would want to find a way to stop him from killing more.
While growing apart, Min on one hand kills to enact his hatred towards his brother while Hyun on the other tries to solve crimes to act on the fixation of not being able to help his own brother. They stand on such different ends of the spectrum.
And then, with all poignancy and the greatest of ironies... the fact that Hyun wants his brother to stop killing is a testament of how he despises his brother's actions. When Hyun took Min's hand in panic to check for blood, it visually showed how Hyun desperately wanted his brother to be "clean". Despite all his filial attachment to Min, he cannot accept that Min kills. This is beyond his limit. So, does he hate Min? Because in Min's eyes, his big brother thinks of him as a filthy murderer and his brother hates him? Does Hyun simply hate the act, or Min himself?
The poetic beauty of it engages me: Hyun tries so hard to understand his brother and yet in doing so, only ended up condemning him... It is so unendingly poignant.
Hyun himself, despite trying to be above the norms of society by pushing boundaries is also a judging individual. Because Hyun abides by the value of life, he innately despises the very criminals he tries hard to understand. First, he despised the father of the kid that he...
riarallahssi
August 2, 2015 at 12:44 AM
cont'd
...that he felt a kinship with. Perhaps, a mirroring of how he despises his own father? Then, he despises the woman who abandoned the weird adopted kid. Perhaps a mirroring of how he despises himself.
Hyun hates himself and that is so beautifully fitting----not only because he abandoned Min but because he himself is a hypocrit. Hyun stands on a gray area where he thinks life is valuable, but also in that same spot he has to understand (even love and accept) those who take away life. I daresay that serial killers don't merely waste life, because they think they take away life with precision that can even be misconstrued as affection. Twisted.
In this, I personally relate with Hyun's character. As much as I want to understand why others are motivated to do evil, in the end I condemn evil itself. Does that mean I condemn these people too? And if I feel compassionate for Min's plight, then does that mean I'm evil too? The dillemma is such a horror! And to be in Hyun's shoes is devastating.
Even so, at the end of it all, are monsters evil in themselves? Or are they creatures that need help?
For the life of me, I still can't find the answer.
P.S. Sorry for the long reply
Cooler
August 1, 2015 at 3:39 PM
@Marina
You know, this is actually how it plays out IRL. Some of the most famous serial killers--the ones who lived as both contributing member of society by day and evil-incarnate by night--have also generally been handsome and successful. Most sociopaths--murderers and non-murderers--that function in society are known to be very charismatic.
People have a hard time accepting that some people are just evil. Min/Lawyer Jung and Jung-ho/Jung-yoon are evil. I'm finding the other characters' (and commenters) responses to this evil a more compelling case study in human nature than how either of them became the monsters they are. It reminds me of discussions we had in school while reading "In Cold Blood."
I'm beginning to think the need to know "why" from outsiders, possibly even family members of the victim, is more about feeling safe again. If there's a reason, you can take steps not to become a victim yourself. If there isn't, then you live with the possibility that it could happen to you, too. That is really frightening. Even the redemption thing is about self-preservation and/or peace of mind.
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Marina
August 3, 2015 at 6:19 AM
@Cooler
I dwell in people's heads every day as a family/marriage therapist. Just like many of the ladies here, (we all know that few guys watch dramas, even fewer comment here) Kdrama addiction is my refuge from the real world. Posting lengthy anylisis on the show's fictional characters after a day of recording, typing sessions with clients is not my idea of unwinding. On other hand, reading others thoughtful comments, especially, like yours that correspond with my own point of view, and posting provoking little snarks at the young fangirls, is fun. :)
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webby
August 1, 2015 at 5:34 PM
I sort of like your points and bravo for pointing out the elephant in the room. Some parts of this drama have been grating me since day one like its treatment and depiction women including Ji An, the "incompetent police" that seems to have been relegated to comic relief.
I don't get people's fascination with Ji An. Because she fights back? She is supposed to be a cop and able to fight. The incident in which she got kidnapped could have been prevented had the police team had been competent (communicate, know where your teammates whereabout, etc). It had been partly a plot device to show off the three "psychoteers"'s oh-so-smart deductions.
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riarallahssi
August 1, 2015 at 11:50 PM
Personally, I'm fascinated with Jian for her no-nonsense approach about her feelings for Hyun. In any other KDrama, the heroine simmers herself in the feeling going back and forth self-doubts and whatnots. Here, Jian just takes the feeling as it is. And she acts on it too.
On a writing perspective, I think this alleviates the complex mystery that's on the other hand of the drama.
In the work place, I think she is equally respected by her peers. They don't treat her like porcelain, she is one of them. I think that's great. Equalism. In any case, the point of equalism itself has way too many arguments entangled with it.
@cooler
As for the abuse directed at women, I believe in fiction there exists an approach where one advocates about anti-violence by showing too much violence on the piece. This is often done in Academy-award winning movies, too.
I think during the porn-stalker case, there was one particular scene where Team Leader Kang himself voiced out to Jian how he felt embarrassed about such men abusing women. In fairness to the drama, it was an attempt to show balance. Although the drama doesn't make (or hasn't made) a poignant and remarkable point that precisely condemns women abuse(yet?), it doesn't seem to intend to offend female species either. At least, I don't find it offensive.
re: romanticizing a serial killer. Sure it's dangerous. But it opens up gray areas. What I appreciate about the drama is that it's asking me to look at "monsters" from a wider lens and not just by the moral standards that the society I grew up in has shaped me to see it from. It's asking for compassion, if not understanding. At least-- understanding.
In episode 13, Jian exclaimed that nobody has the right to decide who lives or dies. Hyun retorted: what if they deserve it? That's very chilling and also brilliant. Surely, of all the killings that have ever happened in the history of this world--- who really gets to say who deserves to live or die? In mundane reality, the truth is relative and life can be really unfair too. The drama shows this with such poignance and I applaud it for the mastery. But yes, the topic is very sensitive and if one isn't discriminating enough or rooted deep enough in certain values, then it can be conflicting.
In the end, it always goes back to the wolf: which wolf do we feed? The power of choices are greater than we can ever imagine and I appreciate how the drama is highlighting this.
Hence, I agree with you. This drama is a very good production.
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webby
August 2, 2015 at 3:34 AM
@riarallahssi
I mean the whole police, not just Ji Ahn, in this drama is written or, at least to me, come across as incompetent. Bearing in mind that I am currently following "Hidden Identity", which is indeed a different breed. But at least, in it there is a feel that all resources (brain power, muscles, wits, etc.) had been put in to relatively best possible use. I don't get that here, most of the cases are cracked by these "psycho"s. What message would this deliver?
I do like Ji Ahn's no-nonsense approach and acting on her feelings. at times I cringe fondly at her equally romantically challenged ways. But I feel the conversation seems to go in the direction that Ji Ahn's worth is leveraged by her connection and romantic relationship to Hyun, which is not saying much about her characterization.
And frankly, I would be disappointed if she took the same stance as Hyun (the-right-or-wrong-it's-my-boyfriend/family support) instead of challenging him when she find out Min is a serial killer or involved in murders. I would like her to sprout similar button-pushing derision she gave the porn-stalker onto Min's face.
But I have a feeling I'll be disappointed.
It's interesting that Min gets the "sympathy" for having unfortunate upbringing when the other culprits, like the porn-stalker with history of , walk off condemned. Because, again, we wear Hyun 's glasses: he is a family and my family has a tragic past. Hyun offers no sympathy to LJY's sob-story, but he does Min's. Of course.
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seares
August 2, 2015 at 5:32 AM
Yes good point in that porn stalker-stalker-serial killer case both Ji An and Hyeon sympathized with the woman who have folie à delux disorder. Just like that if Min also was trained to be killer by LJY before his unreasonable motive(he also wanted to torture his brother which is lower) that means he was technically programmed to kill. Look at his fighting skills. Look at his creepy vibe the same as LJY's. So there is big possibility of he wouldn't turned out to be like him if they hadn't had met before. LJY's response to Jı An at hospital also a clue of confirmation. He would be an artist who suffered from a mental illness and has creepy artwork like Henry Darger for example. That's why it is not just because he is his brother.
seares
August 2, 2015 at 6:01 AM
By the way it not right word to say mentally ill for both since I can't pinpoint what it is at least I wanted to point out similarities like child abuse concept ^^
Cooler
August 2, 2015 at 2:48 PM
I actually read that NY Times article before?. It's a chilling read and would probably do very well as a pregnancy-prevention tool.
The interesting thing is that violence in and of itself has nothing to do with the categorization. The most important factor is almost always in relation to other people. It's the extreme narcissistic focus on self above all else that raises the reg flags.
I'm not at as big of a moral quandary as it may appear. People who live by the sword, should expect to die by the sword. There are other crimes that I believe to be so reprehensible that death should be expected by the perpetrators if they're discovered. As I am a firm believer in NOT getting what I actually "deserve" out of life, whether or not someone "deserves" anything is a moot point for me.
I've found that the gray areas are the most dangerous. People have the capacity to rationalize and adapt to any and everything. When lines are blurred, when things are run together, when we pretend that we can't see the difference between darkness and light, life is destroyed. The desire to see light in the darkness is human nature, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's more likely that there is something in that darkness that appeals to us and rather than recognize it as evil, so we don't have to feel ashamed or guilty, we attempt to make it acceptable or "clean." That seems to be the case with Min. The emotional breakdown makes people feel better about liking a monster/being attracted to evil.
Compassion for the monster, but not for the monstrous deeds is essentially the same as one of the foundational principles of Christianity "hate the sin, love the sinner." The concept is simple, the difficulty, as in most everything else in life, is in the execution. In an attempt to understand, we often end up at accepting. And a request to understand what is different (to the point of repulsion in some cases) turns in to a demand to accept.
We're going to find out that everyone that LJH and Lawyer Jung murdered "deserved" to die and be left with the question of whether or not what they did was actually wrong. And the answer will be, should be: Yes. It was wrong.
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ian
August 2, 2015 at 11:48 AM
As a woman, I don't find anything wrong with how women are treated in this drama. Women are beat up simply because that happens, just like how a guy is found dead almost every episode. Is no one going to complain about how almost every corpse is a guy? No? Okay. Double standards, I guess.
Jian fights back but she gets beaten up because she is smaller and the other guy is bigger and stronger. There really isn't any great mystery to it. The point is that Jian fights back despite knowing this and uses her knowledge as a cop and her small frame to maneuver and fight against her bigger opponent.
Why are you bothered by women being beat up/bloodied in the show? Is it because you think women shouldn't be subjected to violence? Should we be treated like dainty flowers and have killers skip out on us just for the fact that we're women? It's only fair that we get beaten up against a stronger opponent, and that we get targeted just like guys are targeted too. Like Jian whom the task force considers an equal, we should look at all victims as equals and not categorize them by gender. The drama touched on that in the stalker case. Where they all assumed it was a guy but a girl was surprisingly involved in the torture. She was coerced by her boyfriend into committing those crimes but as the drama told us almost every episode, she wouldn't have been capable of torture if she wasn't predisposed to act as such before she met him.
Which brings us to romanticizing a serial killer. I don't think anyone is romanticizing Min. The point of the drama has been clear from day 1 and was made clear in the mistaken father case. Min LJY and Hyun all have the predisposition to be monsters. LJY and Min grew up nurturing the evil wolf in them while Hyun grew up nurturing the good wolf. That's why LJY said he's curious how Hyun would be as an adult. What the viewers are showing is not a romantization of serial killers but an understanding of the makings of a monster, particularly Min. Which is the whole point of the drama imo.
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Cooler
August 2, 2015 at 3:05 PM
"It’s only fair that we get beaten up against a stronger opponent, and that we get targeted just like guys are targeted too."
This. This is my issue with the portrayal. But, by all means feel free to continue to see a woman abused in your face as "fair."
Also:
"Is no one going to complain about how almost every corpse is a guy?"
1. That has nothing to do with the issue with the the level of violence directed at women shown on screen.
2. It's a stupid question as an argument because having an issue with one thing doesn't mean there isn't a problem with something else. Example: The meat is too salty. It also happens to be overcooked and dry. Pointy out the saltiness doesn't mean that it's not overcooked and dry.
3. It was MY comment and MY concerns and MY issues and I raise the ones that I cared about.
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65 Sheri
August 1, 2015 at 3:26 AM
I think LJY longs for relationships in his life and to be understood. He's tried connecting with our three main characters, but it doesn't work. He's missing the interpersonal skill to connect. Perhaps, being locked in a room by himself his whole childhood and adolesence causesd this inability to connect. To me, it makes him pitiful at the same time he is creepy. There is no redemption for a person who's heart cannot touch another's heart. It makes me sad for the child he was and helps me understand how he got to where he is, today. But, I'd never trust this character. My only hope for him is that there is enough affection or shared understanding for Min and Hyun and Ji An, buried somewhere in his heart. Maybe he'll suprise us and take the fall for Min's murders, so Min can be redeemed.
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growingbeautifully
August 2, 2015 at 6:59 PM
Hi @Sheri
I tried using the reply on my phone but my post went to Comment 73. So I'll just stick to using the computer!!! :)
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66 Chriser Kenny
August 1, 2015 at 3:28 AM
I would not be surprised if it is Lawyer Jung behind her and then both are attacked by the killer. I believe they are both the target. Even though Ji-an is cop, her skills are limited. Lawyer Jung has murdered people and a decent fighter, he only fought normal people. It is a different story when you up against a professional killer and mob boss to boot.
Hyun may have to make a choice, but even though we suspect he will save the brother, I think Ji-an will be understanding of his choice. Why isn't Monday already here yet?!
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67 Danielle
August 1, 2015 at 6:52 AM
Park bo gum's "You didn't even recognise me..." just broke me. I was a living waterfall after that.
Great drama, with amazing writing, directing and acting. Extremely and unreasonably underrated in Korea.
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68 Marina
August 1, 2015 at 7:38 AM
I have a question. Why is that every abused or ignored by mommy male child in Kdrama becomes a vicious killer instead of a ... child welfare social worker? Working in this field, I've met many formally abused children who became wonderful child advocates and therapists helping victims like themselves.
The number of brooding guys (I noticed that girls are not allowed to become killers in Kdramas) in every show, with an excuse: "My mommy (insert: my family, my dad, my brother) didn't like me, abandoned, or abused me so I have a license to go murder people," is ridiculous.
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riarallahssi
August 1, 2015 at 11:55 PM
I say capitalism rules the world today so yeah, it must have something to do with it. Sadly.
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69 dramamad
August 1, 2015 at 12:31 PM
I just saw this and had to rush over to leave a comment. This is the preview for episode 13. My korean is not good (barely basic) but in the first 5 seconds hyun seems to slips up and as good as admits Ji An is his girlfriend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xG5zlzwByc
Please somebody fluent in korean take a look and let me know if i got that right.
If so, a) wow all those korean lessons online are paying off and b) commence the swooning - it gives me something to cling to till Monday
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Kiki
August 1, 2015 at 4:00 PM
You are right. He admits Ji an is his lover. I bet he already fell for her, but he doesn't consciously realize it until this point
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dramamad
August 1, 2015 at 10:01 PM
Thank you Kiki.
Yassss! (fist pump!). I cant wait to get a better look at her teams faces.
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riarallahssi
August 1, 2015 at 11:57 PM
Here's an English subbed version for you :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej4nzddEnjc&feature=youtu.be
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growingbeautifully
August 2, 2015 at 6:57 PM
Thanks @riarallahssi!!! I'm really looking forward to the show tonight!!! I hope to watch it live streamed before re-watching it subbed. The expressions on the police team's face when Hyun spoke and paused was great! And it appeared that he was hearing and becoming aware for the first time what it was he was saying about himself and Ji An. LOL!
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70 amel
August 1, 2015 at 1:24 PM
OMG did anybody here cry his eyes out at the brothers scene like me !!! i've imagined the confrontation in so many ways but never thought it would be this heartbreaking :''''((( i can only describe this scene as perfection !!! a huge respect to both actors especially seo in guk ( OMG his teary face broke my heart into pieces :'( )
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KIMMY LOVES BOGUMMY
August 2, 2015 at 9:00 PM
I died watching ep 12 :((( THE ACTORS ARE SO DAEBAKKK!!! I love the brothersss.
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amel
August 3, 2015 at 8:06 AM
these two actors really deserve the best award !! just for this scene i would praise their .... how can i say "acting" while i felt it was real !!! both have true talent and huge skills <3_<3
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71 scarlett
August 1, 2015 at 10:21 PM
what if the twist is that hyeon and jian are the actual target and the killer wanted min to suffer. it still make sense to my twisted mind considering that hyeon is the "most precious person" to min and he's also been constantly interacting with jian.
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72 whimsicalnet
August 2, 2015 at 2:18 AM
I just watched episode 13's preview and am so excited that I might actually try to catch it raw tomorrow. How great Mondays have become again! Even better, Tuesdays and Wednesdays when the subs come out!!
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growingbeautifully
August 2, 2015 at 5:03 PM
LOL! True... I may do the same as you!!! :)
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73 Growingbeautifully
August 2, 2015 at 5:37 PM
@Sheri
I feel it's a possibility. LJY could maybe redeem himself by letting the brothers be reunited and live. I felt that there should be a twist in this story that has been pretty predictable lately, and this would be the ending that would best please all viewers.
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74 KIMMY LOVES BOGUMMY
August 2, 2015 at 8:16 PM
Hands down to Park Bo Gum's acting! I know he'll be a big hit someday! Nevertheless, he has won my whole heart. GAHHH~~~ I LOVE HIM SO MUCH! He deserves to be recognized, like, REALLY. HOW CAN HE NOT BE WORTHY OF ANY AWARD?!! HEEHEEHEEE. I would lurveee to see him acting other characters, too! I FELL HEAD OVER HEELS FOR HIM ALREADY. I ADORE HIM TONSSS.
Kudos as well to the entire cast of this daebak dramaaa! Seo In Guk, Jang Nara, et.al., FIGHTING!!!!
Too bad, IRY will have to end in two week's time. :( I just can't get over. SO MUCH LOVE FOR THIS DRAMAAA. <3
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KIMMY LOVES BOGUMMY
August 2, 2015 at 8:27 PM
*two weeks' time
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75 Hum Drama
August 3, 2015 at 1:13 AM
love to watch korean dramas
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76 oosiee
August 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM
I just find the synergy between the cast so amazing and every scene is becoming so..so..so memorable for me..♡♡
And about the next target..Hyun just found his brother 'Min' back and when asked by Joon-ho if he wants to reconcile with Hyun..Min non-admittingly admitted for that to happen and We know how Joon-ho loves to torment Hyun..so this time...i believe its Min who's being targeted!
But i hope Min gets out unscathed...plz dramagods..don't throw another Triangle on me!
♡I Remember You ♡
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77 foosiee
August 3, 2015 at 3:08 AM
Hyun just found his brother 'Min' back and when asked by Joon-ho if he wants to reconcile with Hyun..Min non-admittingly admitted for that to happen and We know how Joon-ho loves to torment Hyun..so this time...i believe its Min who's being targeted!
But plz dramagods..don't throw another Triangle on me!Give Min some time to actually Reconcile with his Hyung...or maybe even a happy ending!
♡I Remember You♡
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78 afdadsfda
August 3, 2015 at 5:38 PM
I love Min, but he is a serial killer and will probably be arrested in the last episode. I think the ending will be similar to the case a few weeks ago with the father and son meeting in jail? Lee Hyun confessed long ago that he killed his father and it's still not clear who killed the father. If Lee Hyun did kill his father, then he would go to jail too. Or maybe I'm reading too much into this.
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79 No1
October 18, 2015 at 6:35 AM
5 stars for this episode
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80 Fries
September 13, 2016 at 7:12 AM
This drama is perfect in every way as far as I can tell. Seo In Gook is really something else. I had no idea he could play such a character, but he does it so well that I wonder how it is that I doubted him in the first place. And the newcomer, Park Bo Gum, who plays the part of Lawyer Jang extremely well.
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