Ho-gu’s Love: Episode 5
by javabeans
Every episode brings Ho-gu new lessons to learn, though I like to think that he’s teaching just as many to Do-hee, even if he doesn’t mean to be. Today we get a bit of satisfaction as he stands up for himself and what matters to him—even if, of course, it’s done in his customarily sideways and awkward way. But that’s just his charm.
SONG OF THE DAY
Linus’ Blanket – “Kangaroo” from the Ho-gu’s Love OST [ Download ]
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Fifth Foolish Act: “Let’s use condo(m)s”
Do-hee gives birth, and Ho-gu is an emotional wreck. He leaves the delivery room sobbing just as a woman is wheeled in, her husband calling encouraging words after her. He sees Ho-gu crying, and his concern turns to alarm when Ho-gu starts to explain that in that delivery room, the babies are… the babies are… The husband leans in agitatedly.
“…born!” Ho-gu wails, his cries growing louder. Wah-wahhhh. The husband inches away.
Over in his bachelor pad, uptight lawyer Kang-chul has a difficult time going to sleep that night, haunted by that text message hinting that a new member has just been born to his family.
While Do-hee sleeps, Ho-gu tidies her things, and a piece of paper flutters to the floor. An address is written on it on memo paper from Kang-chul’s firm, located in Yeosu.
Do-hee wakes, so Ho-gu pockets the paper. She sleepily asks for a fish-shaped sweet bun, and Ho-gu notes it with a smile. He walks home because he doesn’t have money for a taxi, and peers in on Ho-kyung’s room. He fondly starts to call her his “lovable little sister” just as she kicks him in her sleep, nailing him in the groin as he gasps on the word “lovable.”
Next he looks in on his sleeping parents, and gets teary as he places his hand over his mother’s stomach, thinking of the pain she endured to give birth to him. Then Mom wakes up, sees a figure in black touching her stomach, and freaks out, attacking Ho-gu with her pillow.
Ho-kyung runs in ready to beat the intruder over the head with a hair dryer, and then the screaming quiets as they realize who it is. They stare blankly at Ho-gu, who just curls up to his mother’s belly, crying, “It must’ve been so hard for you…”
Meanwhile, Kang-chul keeps staring intently at that text message. At the hospital Do-hee looks in on her baby in his incubator, wearing a curious (dark?) expression on her face.
At the breakfast table, Ho-gu picks at his food looking glum, and his family trades looks back and forth wondering what’s up. They have a silent conversation in increasingly wild gestures, though Ho-gu’s head remains bowed over his rice bowl while the family guesses that he got dumped by a girl.
“That’s not it,” Ho-gu says, surprising them all by following along. He explains that it’s not any of the things they guessed, and that he’s just thankful and amazed to have been born, and that this is his family. That makes his family well up with tears, while Ho-kyung checks the calendar wondering if they changed the date for Parents’ Day.
Despite Ho-gu’s statements, Ho-kyung reports to Mom that according to his buddies, the webtoon has been having trouble and they only barely managed to convince their editor to let them keep going. (There’s a running gag that Ho-kyung is unrecognizable with her full face of makeup, and based on the way Mom has vamped herself up, it must be a family thing.)
But Mom interprets Ho-gu’s crying differently, thinking it prompted by something much more significant. She remembers Dad crying like that when his kids were born, though Ho-kyung sniffs that Mom’s waaay overestimating Ho-gu if she thinks he had it in him to father a child. Mom laughs that that’s true.
Ho-gu finds his father at the gate by their family nameplate, and wonders why it’s in Mom’s name only, and why Dad always answers phones or makes dinner reservations with her name instead of his own. Dad leans in to share a secret that he was saving for Ho-gu’s wedding: “Women are much more amazing creatures than men.” Aw. Better yet is the way Ho-gu takes him completely seriously, asking, “Really?”
Dad points out how women are much more beautiful than men (and how Ho-kyung is proof that even if one isn’t necessarily pretty, women are capable of transformation), and moreover, women give birth. Dad says, “If you see a child being born once, you’ll think like me, Ah, I’d better listen to what women say.”
Ho-gu understands completely, and finishes Dad’s sentences for him about how it is to cut the umbilical cord, and how babies are amazing. Dad wonders how Ho-gu knows this, and Ho-gu hurriedly makes up an excuse about seeing it in manhwa books.
Then Dad gives Ho-gu some cash, and the first thing Ho-gu does is buy those hot buns Do-hee wanted. A TON of them. He hands them out to the hospital staff, making his way to Do-hee, who reads through the long string of distressed texts from her coach.
Ho-gu cheerfully hands her the snacks, tells her to share with the other mothers, and heads out to hand out the rest. He makes a slip of the tongue and says “our baby” before catching himself, and Do-hee’s voice grows hard as she asks why he has any business seeing her baby.
She reminds him that he was only going to stay until she had her baby, as friend and emergency contact. He understands that she’s asking him to leave, and awkwardly agrees to go. Do-hee does thank him sincerely, promising to repay him for all he’s done for her.
Ho-gu leaves with a heavy heart, but ends up heading back in to see her baby anyway, enamored at first sight. He pulls out that note from Do-hee’s jacket and recalls their overnight beach visit, and how Do-hee had said she had to get surgery to get rid of a small lump.
Do-hee reaches for a hot bun, and the bite is so hot that she reaches for her water, sending the whole bunch into the trash. That’s when Ho-gu returns, and he sees them sitting in the bin. Aww.
He asks if the reason she wanted to go to Yeosu in the first place was to get her surgery. She admits that she was going to get an abortion, and he just asks “Why?” when she says that she couldn’t have it, that she didn’t want it. Do-hee bursts out that news of her having a baby would have ruined her life, and that it was “just a mistake” on both parents’ parts.
Ho-gu just picks the bag of buns out of the trash, telling her, “These aren’t buns you can throw away so easily.” She hadn’t even realized they’d fallen, and he gets emotional as he says his parents worked hard so he could buy them. So even if she doesn’t want them, she shouldn’t just toss them. He takes them and tells her not to repay his favor: “Because I don’t want to see you again.”
Do-hee watches him leave, chastened and teary-eyed.
In a courtroom, a lawyer asks if it’s a crime for a single woman to have a baby, arguing that her client was unlawfully fired merely for having a child. Kang-chul is opposing counsel defending the employer, and he takes his turn before the court.
Kang-chul references an instance when the plaintiff’s single-motherhood resulted in business consequences for her company. She admits that it did, but as she tells her story, it’s clear to all in the courtroom—or almost all—that there were extenuating circumstances, because her contact in a deal verbally abused her, saying that she wasn’t fit to handle business operations when she “couldn’t even manage her own body” (to, you know, not be pregnant while unmarried). The audience gasps in sympathy, and it’s understandable that her temper caused her to talk back, and the deal fell through.
But Kang-chul is unbending, hammering in that she must take responsibility for the consequences of her actions, since being maligned doesn’t retroactively make the deal go through. He coldly calls her “irrational” for being a single mother in the first place (which is therefore a sign of her compromised judgment), since it’s an abnormal state that nobody in her sane mind would choose. Oh, you are the worst kind of ass—the kind who thinks you’re right. I can’t wait for you to be painfully and miserably torn to shreds by Ho-kyung. I’m already sad in advance that it won’t be as gruesome as you deserve.
When opposing counsel objects, he thunders at her that a man and a woman dating, marrying, and having babies is “this nation’s correct order.” No, I’m pretty sure that’s just a nursery rhyme. But apparently they hand you morality badges with law degrees now, and Kang-chul sneers at the plaintiff with contempt for daring to contradict society’s proper order.
The angry plaintiff asks Kang-chul if he’s saying she should have aborted her baby. He looks at her in honest-to-goodness confusion and asks, “Why are you asking me that?” OH MY GOD.
As they leave the courtroom, his disgusted secretary, Gong-mi, sarcastically congratulates him on a job well done. He just replies, “I know.” And then he tells her she needs to lose weight, because it looks like she’s put on six kilograms. Oh god, I can’t be responsible for all the bloodthirsty fantasies I’m having from here on out. If entrails aren’t involved it’s not nearly violent enough.
Gong-mi calls him out for harassment, though he says it’s not harassment for a designer to tell his model to lose weight. He only hired her because she’s pretty—he doesn’t need a capable secretary since he’s good on his own. To my great dismay, she’s totally mollified by the backhanded nonpliment. At least, until he says he wanted a generically pretty face, and losing some of her looks takes away from the desired effect.
Gong-mi is still raging as she goes shopping later with Ho-kyung, seething that she’ll rip him to shreds. It makes her want to become a lawyer to crush him on his own turf. But Ho-kyung says that won’t cut it: “I have to be the one to exact revenge on that bastard. Only I can do it!” She growls that she’s been waiting for this day, so she could get payback on her high school enemy.
Ho-kyung imagines herself as a fierce warrior in a historical piece, out for satisfaction, and promises her friend to avenge today’s affront as well. Gong-mi’s surprised to hear that she already knows Kang-chul, but Ho-kyung adds that he won’t (or shouldn’t) know her.
Flashback to high school. Rankings are posted, and Tae-hee’s only a few places higher than Ho-gu near the bottom of the pile. Hilariously, while Tae-hee gulps in dismay, Ho-gu’s beaming because this is actually an improvement for him. On the other hand, Kang-chul sits at the very top of the list in first place.
Ho-gu waits for his sister after school, and Tae-hee is shocked at his first glimpse of Ho-kyung, looking tough and weird and wild. Kang-chul’s chauffeured car screeches to a halt to barely avoid hitting her, and the driver screams at her to watch where she’s going. Ho-kyung screams in outrage, ready to go punch out some lights.
In the present day, Kang-chul texts Ho-kyung a request to meet this weekend, and she crows in excitement. Let the revenge begin.
Meanwhile, her professor (Kang-chul’s mother) is busily working on a report regarding the condom usage study when her husband comes home and demands food. He notices the condoms on the table and asks about them, then tunes out halfway through her sentence and demands food again. Well we know where the son got his manners. Mom tries to suggest that her husband can take some condoms if he wants to use any (with her, she means), but he just blankly says he has no use for them, and she heaves a sigh.
Dad asks about Kang-chul’s upcoming blind date and says he wants grandchildren soon. Mom points out that he dislikes kids, but Dad says he still wants them—to brag about, since all his colleagues are full of nonstop bragging over their grandkids. Dad grumbles that Kang-chul’s wasting his good years working late when he could be off making babies—and Mom snaps at him in horror. Hm, her reaction seems rather strong—does she know anything?
At the office, Kang-chul asks his secretary to track down everyone in a messenging program whose IDs are listed as “X,” since that’s the name on the mysterious text sent to him. He also asks for phone number for the ex-girlfriend who came looking for him.
Ho-gu has that number stored in his phone, and he goes back and forth trying to decide whether to delete it. A kid bumps into him, and when Ho-gu sees that Do-hee’s number has been deleted, he howls in dismay. He tries to tell himself it’s for the best. The kids look curiously at the fish-shaped buns he’s eating and ask for a taste, so he hands them out as they mill around.
He gets a call from the hospital because “Elise” isn’t feeling well and the nurse wants to know if he’ll be by tonight. He says he won’t be going anymore, but asks if the condition is serious. The nurse says it’s not, but that a woman may experience afterpain following delivery that’s alleviated with massages.
That weighs on his mind all evening, and he declines to join in on the family Go-Stop game. Ho-kyung drops her purse and scatters its contents, so he helps retrieve them and is shocked at all the condoms she’s carrying, saying he’s confiscating them. Ho-kyung matter-of-factly tells him that they’re leftovers from her research and that she’d have more use for them than he would.
Ho-gu scolds her, saying that guys would think she’s careless and easy if they knew she carried condoms, and Ho-kyung retorts that the people who are actually easy are the ones who don’t use condoms. Furthermore, these are made to protect her body from selfish men who don’t want to be bothered with the hassle.
Ho-gu sputters in affront, though it’s gratifying to see his parents nodding in agreement with her. Ho-kyung asks if she’s supposed to walk around unprepared, or spend her life “saving it” and dying old and alone. Mom: “Is it water or electricity? Why would you save it up? Life’s short enough just to enjoy it!”
Ho-kyung tells Ho-gu not to become one of those selfish men and offers him a condom. Dad urges him to take it, and Mom offers him a strawberry-flavored one instead. LOL.
Do-hee endures the pains with difficulty, and sees the half-eaten fish bun she’d dropped on the floor. Picking it up, she thinks of Ho-gu arguing to stay with her through labor, because it would be scary for her to do it alone. She starts to cry while holding it close, and when someone pushes aside her bed curtain, she looks up hopefully and asks, “Ho-gu?” But it’s not him.
Ho-gu isn’t far, though, and comes to the hospital clutching a fresh bag of hot buns. The nurse advises him to wait before going to see Do-hee, because a visitor is here and the air seems a bit tense.
So he waits outside the door for a while before heading inside. The curtains are drawn closed, but he can hear a man asking furiously if she’s in her right mind, and that she should have done as he said and aborted the baby. Ho-gu can’t see, though we can, that it’s Kang-chul here to berate Do-hee for going through with the pregnancy, though Do-hee says the baby is hers and he has no place telling her what to do.
Kang-chul agrees that he has no responsibility, reminding her that she came to him that night. She reminds him that she asked him to use “that” and he refused. He sneers that he doesn’t use condoms—he’s never used one and never will. I really hope that’s because you’ll never get laid again. She tells him to go, and that he’s no longer involved.
Ho-gu ducks around the corner as Kang-chul stalks out of the room, and as he follows Kang-chul out wearing a dark expression, he reminds himself of words his father once told him: that a man mustn’t act rashly, that he must focus on facts. Do-hee’s and Kang-chul’s words float in his head, of how it was a simple mistake, how the baby shouldn’t have been born, how Kang-chul bears no responsibility for it.
Ho-gu covers his face with his scarf and hood, and prepares to act. Maybe he’s thinking to give Kang-chul a pounding, but then he recalls the comment about Do-hee coming to Kang-chul the night they conceived, and he imagines a Little Red Riding Hood scenario where Do-hee drops by to see grandma, only to find Kang-chul the wolf there.
Ho-gu shakes off the fantasy and follows Kang-chul into the elevator, warning himself to remain calm. But then Kang-chul says into the phone that he doesn’t use those things because they’re a hassle, and how he hates using condos, which sounds a lot like that other thing. So when he reiterates, “I will never use condos!” Ho-gu can’t hold back and grabs the bastard by the jacket, shoving him against the wall, demanding to know why he refuses.
Raising his fist, he bellows, “USE CONDOMS, you piece of trash!” and punches him in the face.
Today his voice is stronger: “My name is Ho-gu. Kang Ho-gu!”
COMMENTS
Ha, I love that Ho-gu was misled, of all things, by mishearing a word. But I’m supremely glad that he did, because I was itching to sock it to Kang-chul myself, and perhaps more importantly, it assures us that Ho-gu is willing and able to change his views. ‘Cause I won’t lie, this episode was hard for me to get through without throwing things, because of the toxic crapola spewed by some men about women and women’s bodies and women’s autonomies.
Most of that was Kang-chul, but Ho-gu also infuriated me with his pearl-clutching reaction to Ho-kyung’s condoms, as though sex makes a woman loose and easy and degraded in public valuation. At least his reaction was motivated by concern more than an inherent need to judge, because I didn’t get slut-shaming vibes from him. But being naive and innocent can translate into backwards ideas shaped by a more oppressive, patriarchal perspective, where people judge women for having sex before marriage and children out of wedlock, while men abdicate responsibility because their penises need to be free.
But I think the shape of Ho-gu’s arc saves him, aided in great part by his awesome family. Dad’s become a favorite, because he’s so quietly but steadfastly supportive, and he puts his money where his mouth is; he doesn’t order Mom around or view people as status markers the way Kang-chul’s father does. Instead, he shows his love by doing the dishes every day and putting Mom’s name front and center and instructing his son to treat women with that same mix of respect and reverence with which he does. So despite passing some disappointing judgments, in the end Ho-gu is pushed into action out of respect for women, showing that he was listening to Ho-kyung when she spoke of using condoms as a thing you do out of respect for yourself, not in degradation.
Because really, Kang-chul, you’re just going to huff that it’s Do-hee’s fault for having a child because you don’t like the feeling of condoms? I’d say fuck you, except that’s the exact opposite of the fate I wish upon you for all eternity. I know that he’s being written as an extreme character and that my buttons are being pushed intentionally, and that he’s meant to be a jackass whose face you want to smear in dog shit. But knowing that it’s part of his arc (…because there’d better be an arc) doesn’t mitigate the violent reaction he inspires in me.
It’s too bad because I really like Im Seul-ong and I thought his character was being set up to be cutely annoying. Instead I find him blood-boiling. I want Ho-kyung to wipe the floor with him, and merely “taming” him into a nicer version isn’t good enough. I must have blood! (On the other hand, I suppose if the drama manages to bring me around to liking him, it will have pulled off an amazing feat of character development.)
I find Do-hee a grimmer character than I thought we would be getting—the promos made her seem like a fun, sassy, foul-mouthed heroine. She’s a tough nut to crack because of her wall of pride, but I like that she’s got shades to her, and it’s interesting to me how she’s got a softer side that Ho-gu always misses seeing. He actually assumes better of her than perhaps he has reason to, and he’s held her up in his mind for years, so there was a bit of a fantasy luster to her image. But when we’re allowed to see Do-hee’s actual vulnerability, he misses those moments, like when he assumes she threw away the hot buns, and when she later cries over it. I was proud of Ho-gu for standing up to Do-hee, even if that particular reason was based on a misunderstanding, because we see now that there’s a limit to his niceness; when the line is crossed, he will stand up and defend. Just as he did for Do-hee in the last scene. Let’s hope that growth just continues.
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Tags: Choi Woo-shik, featured, Ho-gu's Love, UEE
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1 blueribbon
February 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM
Can Hogu get anymore adorable?
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blueribbon
February 23, 2015 at 8:19 PM
Also I hope that scene in the end it's real and not just hogu's imagination. That guy deserves a good ass whopping.
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blueribbon
February 23, 2015 at 8:20 PM
Sorry, also Thank you for the recap javabeans. :)
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owl
February 24, 2015 at 12:31 PM
I agree, I don't want it to be another scene of what he does in his mind versus what really happens. I hope that bloody nose is real.
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nomad
February 24, 2015 at 6:24 PM
I have to say, because my blood is boiling and I'm having indigestion because of that bloody lawyer character, I don't even care if the NURSE punches him. SOMEONE should punch the guy, since I can't do it myself. It has been long since there's a character I hate so much...but he's it. I had to repeat the mantra "this is just a drama, this is just a drama" all through out that court scene. Ugh...he makes me SICK! I'm with JB when she said she wants blood. I want Ho Kyung to smear this guy flat. I don't even want an arc. I want him DESTROYEDDDDD
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floralnori
February 24, 2015 at 2:09 PM
I disagree. Ho-gu is sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong. I know that's part of his charm, but Do-hee hasn't asked him to be her white knight. If anyone should punch that jerk, it should be her.
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es
February 24, 2015 at 9:38 PM
IKR that bloody nose had better be real.
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EnzoA
February 24, 2015 at 8:07 AM
"I want Ho-kyung to wipe the floor with him..."
That would be good, but I have a feeling that Ho Kyung might experience something out of her control, like a "condom accident" (I strongly hope to be wrong). I'm curious to see how the writer will manage a path that should bring to an unusual family arrangement.
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EnzoA
February 24, 2015 at 8:24 AM
Ooops, looks that I misplaced my comment, it wasn't supposed to be a reply. Sorry. ^^
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adelaide
February 24, 2015 at 8:08 AM
whoa, Javabeans is all fired up! I was, too, damn , Kang Chul is a male chauvinist pig, and a major, major A-hole. Those words at the courtroom and the things he said to DoHee, that's his truth and i hope Ho Kyung will teach him some lessons in love and life then break his heart to a tiny million pieces, it's not even enough, I hope he grows old alone and so wrinkled, coz his vanity will kill him eventually.
I don't know how can you even reform this kind of character, he's not sorry ,not a bit and passes the blame to Do Hee, this is the reason why men should try and be pregnant , let's see if they enjoy the before and the after.
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2 samsooki
February 23, 2015 at 8:20 PM
I dunno.
A lot to think about.
I dislike Ho Kyung because there isn't any sincerity in her vis a vis guys. I dislike Ho Goo's parents because I feel like Ho Goo grew up without being guided.
Yet in the center of it all is Ho Goo, who still managed to be a decent person with a heart and a moral center, despite (or in part due to???) his family.
Is that the choice now? Be a complete douchebag and a dickhead with successful overachieving parents who are also messed up, or be a wallflower and a doormat with hippy dippy parents who let you make your own life? Seems like a false choice to me.
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Gongaroo
February 23, 2015 at 8:41 PM
And yet somehow those same hippies, wallflowers and doormats also managed to conceive and raise Ho Kyung who's a college educated, successful young woman by anyone's standards.
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blueribbon
February 23, 2015 at 9:12 PM
Eveil +1 His parents are not that bad.
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samsooki
February 24, 2015 at 7:38 AM
Yes, that's a question isn't it? Well, a college educated successful young woman... who has her own issues. Being college educated and successful is by no means the end all be all. Otherwise that dickhead lawyer would be a god. Clearly, that guy could have used a kick in the pants or three, but the absentee parents did nothing except encourage sociopathy.
As for Ho Goo, was it the parents (environment) or was it Ho Goo's instrinsic character (nature) that made Ho Goo into a decent human being?
I am a believer in responsible parenting, but this drama doesn't play favorites with any particular point of view on parenting. A little confusing, intentional or otherwise.
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Gongaroo
February 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM
Nature vs nature is always an interesting topic but to be blunt - that wasn't the point of my irritation.
Stereotyping, labeling and dismissing Ho Gu's parents as useless because their style of parenting is different from the approach that you prefer is ludicrous and the main source of my ire.
They eat dinner together as a family, discuss serious topics and cherish one another. All signs of a close-knit family.
Yet you decry the lack of parental guidance without speaking of the fact that Ho Gu and Ho Kyung are no longer minors - how much more guidance are parents supposed to give their adult children?
The fact that they willingly listen to their children when they need an ear and give advice when asked is a sign that they are, at the very least, acceptable parents.
Another point for consideration - Ho Kyung, even though jaded about men and dating, is not a bad person. She is a loving daughter, a good friend, a good student and a concerned, overprotective sister. Yet just like her parents, she is dismissed as dislikeable because there are flaws in her character.
This world would be full of nothing but bad, useless people if we were to use your measuring stick.
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whilethemusiclasts
February 24, 2015 at 9:45 PM
+1
AshicallyMe
March 28, 2015 at 3:16 AM
Preach 1000 times.
jomo143
February 25, 2015 at 10:08 AM
Yes, the difference is prolly the personalities more than the parenting.
I have one ambitious, take charge daughter and one go with the flow son. I can't take credit or blame for either!!
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 12:00 AM
I don't know, I didn't get that vibe from the show, that success only comes to unpleasant people and that if you're nice you're a loser. First of all because I don't see Ho-gu as a loser at all. Even if he may not be all that successful by conventional means. But his sister certainly is, as Evell pointed out.
Besides, I don't think Kang-chul's family's issues are a result of their social status - they're just really messed up people. Especially the dad and son. But I feel for the Prof - she obviously wishes she had a loving relationship with her husband, and wants her son to have a normal relationship with someone instead of being his freaky, closed-off, perfectionist self. And maybe Kang-chul's personality is partly a result of his privilege. But I don't think the show is making the argument that successful people have to be assholes.
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 12:02 AM
There is also the question of what constitutes success - I'd much rather be a part of Ho-gu's loving, supportive family, weird and wacky though they can be, than have Kang-chul's suffocating life. Besides, they're not rich, but they're not exactly starving to death.
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samsooki
February 24, 2015 at 8:19 AM
I agree with your choice as well.
But I think the choices are too limited.
I'd like to see a drama where the family is well-adjusted, supportive, encouraging and yet disciplined enough so that the kids grow up with the right attitude and perspective on life.
... but then maybe there wouldn't be a drama....
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 9:21 AM
Haha too true.
gabi
February 25, 2015 at 7:42 AM
"disciplined enough so that the kids grow up with the right attitude and perspective on life"
Wow that sounds so restrictive and severe. Also, most importantly, close-minded. Who is anyone to say what a "right attitude" is?
Honestly, I read your comment and all I could think was what a mess. Both Ho-kyung and Ho-goo have a right attitude and perspective on life, as they're both decent people albeit, of course, flawed in many ways. The fact that they do not adjust to what /you/ consider the Right Way of Life®, is not a problem of the show, but yours for being unable to consider and accept people who have different standards as yours.
samsooki
February 24, 2015 at 8:17 AM
I agree, and what is confusing is that there isn't a real strong point of view or direction that the show is taking.
The show isn't saying, "See what happens when you are rich."
The show isn't saying, "See what happens when you are poor."
But in kdramas in general, the rich guy/girl does tend to be arrogant and blinded by his or her self-love, and the poor guy/girl does tend to be the dopey, spunky, quirky one with the heart of gold. And this drama is no different.
I would like a drama where the poor guy is the arrogant jerk and the rich guy is perfect... oh wait, then there would be no reason to like the poor guy...
Nevermind.
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 9:27 AM
I actually would argue that this drama IS different, in that it has those stereotypes, yes, but:
1. The rich, arrogant guy is not the male lead, nor is he misunderstood-with-a-heart-of-gold, only needing the Power of Love to show him the way. He's an asshole in every situation, to everyone in his life. I'm looking forward to his ass-whooping, personally.
2. Ho-gu is so much more than the typical Candy girl/guy. Not only does he come from a happy, functional if unconventional family, he is not drowning in debt, and while he's academically challenged, he's a talented artist and he's using it to make a living. Plus he's not a doormat, just a very nice person who perhaps needs to work on being more outspoken. Which he did in this episode. His quiet dignity kind of reminds of Jang Nara's Miyoung in FTLY, actually.
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:33 PM
Agree with you. I don't think Ho-gu is a "candy". It's a very different type of character we've got with him. One which I immensely enjoy.
meliyasha
February 24, 2015 at 6:42 PM
Ohh thanks for pointing that one out. Ever since I watched the first episode I always think that this drama is the reverse version of FTLY, it's just I'm not sure in which part exactly.
Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 6:43 AM
I feel that Ho-kyung isn't so much a character to like, as I definitely get annoyed by her lack of sincerity when dealing with people as well. She can be downright cruel in her treatment of past boyfriends, so I am looking forward to her interactions with Kang-chul. What happens when people like Ho-Kyung and Kang-Chul start dating people as jaded/ insincere as themselves?
Her narrative purpose seems to be a foil to Kang-chul. Taken at face-value, they'd be the typical, unlikeable drama characters, but in the hands of this writer, I think there will be an interesting story about contemporary dating and the battle of the sexes.
This drama definitely lacks a middle ground when you look at the character archetypes. I hope we will see Ho-gu standing up for himself more, because as much as I love how sweet he is, I hate to see it when he is unappreciated or taken advantage of.
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Kimmy
February 24, 2015 at 7:48 AM
I consider Gong-mi & Ho Gu's friends middle-ish. I personally find a character like Do Hee quite believable as well. :)
I think you get a spectrum of characters, which I really like. From the modern woman Ho kyung who has a reaaaally modern view on love, to the innocent Ho Gu who treats love as insanely precious, to Kangchul who is simply ?!?!? and insensitive, to the wounded by love Do Hee, to the happily married & the unhappily married... it's a meditation on modern love, attitudes, relationships.
(it reminds me so much of what I loved in Misaeng - spectrum! depth! flawed but really human characters! - a meditation on how people respond to work challenges & relationships)
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 9:32 AM
I love Gong-mi. She's so relatable. I love how she feels like a real person with her own story even though we don't see much of it. Plus her various expressions of total disgust at Kang-chul = WIN.
Agree, about this show having having a spectrum of characters like Misaeng. Though not done nearly as well. But then, so little is.
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samsooki
February 24, 2015 at 9:51 AM
The problem with Kangchul is that he's not a real human being.
Nobody who is that much of a sociopath would have been likeable by DDH enough so that DDH slept with him.
Sociopathic personalities are instantly recognizable and immediately hated. People like that end up loners, in jail and/or hiding in wood cabins with other crazy people.
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Gongaroo
February 24, 2015 at 11:44 AM
I think Kang-Chul could be a real human being. He is a hypocritical, selfish person who thinks nothing of others and sees only himself. He is covered with the trappings of success so that others who think that success is equal to respectability ignore his asshole-ish ways.
People are like Kang-Chul everyday except that most times they can put a mask of respectability on and attend work or other functions.
A good example would be racists. They're not only loners in jail or those hiding in cabins, they could easily be the grandmother who's crossing the street or a cop who's doing their rounds. They see only their own plight and that of their race. They have no empathy for others and cannot put themselves in their shoes.
Maybe Do Hee couldn't see behind Kang-Chul's mask before she slept with him. Maybe she was lonely enough that at first, it didn't matter. People also do that all of the time.
melica
February 24, 2015 at 5:32 PM
He is seems a self-centered, overly pampered, maladjusted ass. And he had a lot of power in their small high school milieu.
People sleep with the wrong people for the wrong reasons all the time. DDH sleeping with him, even though he is a complete ass who wouldn't wear a condom, seems totally believable to me.
She was young and inexperienced and we don't know the backstory on how why that happened. But she is older now and probably wiser.
nomad
February 24, 2015 at 9:37 PM
"Sociopathic personalities are instantly recognizable and immediately hated." <--- If this was true, Bundy wouldn't have been able to get married while he was in jail.
I can't understand why DDH would sleep with Kangchul, and can only hope that Kangchul can't ever be a real human being...but then why is it that single moms are still in general shunned in Korean culture? Why would they still fear of losing jobs because they chose not to abort their babies born out of wedlock? So to some degree, these kind of people must still exist in quite a large number, then...
samsooki
February 24, 2015 at 9:47 AM
Totally agree.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 24, 2015 at 10:53 AM
Grow up without being guided?
He is honest because his parents are honest.
He knows how to stand up for himself and for the oppressed and to give his seat to pregnant women. He honors women because his dad honors his mother. Good nature or not, parents help keep their kids out of trouble.
The drama is showing real life, i think. In the rich family, we have an over-achieving kid who nevertheless obeys his mother when his mother arranges a soh-gaeting. In the poor family, we have a kid who also obeys his mother. In the rich family, we have a dad who doesn't respect women and doesn't seem to think of his wife as more than a slave. In the poor family, we have a guy who totally honors his wife. Guidance doesn't come only from parents setting you down to train you. Kids learn by example. This is a loving family that plays cards game together versus a family that doesn't connect at all. For better or worse, a loving family can create all kinds of kids. They honor their kids' personalities. The daughter is not a wallflower. She is totally adept at playing and understanding the flaky roles society expects of her. And I don't think the parents are hippy dippy. If those are hippy dippy types, then most parents are. They seem pretty normal to me with the exception of the gender reversals.
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Gongaroo
February 24, 2015 at 11:45 AM
Amen to that, Carole!
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:19 PM
You said it so much better than I could have.
I see no misguided or lack of having been guided in Ho-gu. He's a wonderful person as he is, he just doesn't fit some of the mainstream definitions of 'successful' because he's... nice. Not sure what's wrong with being nice (if he were a pushover, we could debate about it... but he's not a pushover at all. He's nice to degree he feels comfortable with, which might be more than most of us would be comfortable. But that doesn't make him misguided or a loser.).
The other thing is, he's young. So, for me, I don't see it as such a big deal that he's a bit naive in some things. He was in class only with boys, hangs with his guy-friends, hasn't had a girlfriend yet, he's very likely a virgin. His discussion with his sister about her condoms was misguided but it didn't come out of a bad place – more like he didn't know any better. I mean, he's got some pretty progressive women in his family but I'm sure society around him is constantly spouting that nonsense about that women should be 'pure'.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 11:35 AM
Exactly! A lotta very naive virgin boys out there at that age.
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nomad
February 24, 2015 at 9:39 PM
+1 Carole!
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 11:44 AM
:-) ::big grin:
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3 Purva Huilgol
February 23, 2015 at 8:27 PM
Thank for the recap, @javabeans!
If there's ever a couple of male characters who've infuriated me so much, it's got to be this father-son duo. They take the cake, it's icing with the cherry on douchebaggery.
And I completely agree with you, I actually like Im Seul-ong, and this character is making me hate him a la King Joffrey from GoT.
I loved the soft-side of DDH they showed here. She does have heart which was evident when she decided not to abort the baby, but it's these small moments which make me like her more.
I am absolutely loving Kang ho-kyung here! In the first episode, I did find her a bit aggravating, but I love the fact that she's a practical with a mercenary side to her. I can't wait for her to dig her claws into Kang-chul and teach him a lesson or two.
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4 chrianna
February 23, 2015 at 8:34 PM
"At least his reaction was motivated by concern more than an inherent need to judge, because I didn’t get slut-shaming vibes from him. But being naive and innocent can translate into backwards ideas shaped by a more oppressive, patriarchal perspective, where people judge women for having sex before marriage and children out of wedlock, while men abdicate responsibility because their penises need to be free."
this was perfect. love the show. love the recaps. thank you!
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5 stars4u
February 23, 2015 at 8:36 PM
Moar Ho gu!!!!!
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6 Gongaroo
February 23, 2015 at 8:52 PM
I really really love the show. It just resonates with me. I utterly love Ho Gu and his family antics. Both the breakfast and family discussing condom scenes were amazing and had me cracking up. But nothing made my day so much as seeing Hogu punch Kang Chul's lights out. Uee's doing such a great job as Do Hee that I totally shed tears along with her. IMO Choi Woo Shik was born to play Kang Ho Gu. I lurve him so much. I really wish that I had a Ho Gu. Sadly, genuine kindness is a trait that is not valued as much as material wealth or success in our lives.
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7 nen916
February 23, 2015 at 9:14 PM
Thank you for your very quick recap and your insights you hit all the points I see as to why this is a fine drama. The characters growth is done so subtly but you can see the growth actors are all doing a great job
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8 Anvesha
February 23, 2015 at 9:51 PM
Just reading this made me want to draw some blood... Omg.. I get so pissed by these kind of characters. He MUST suffer and be put through hell before he is redeemed in the drama or else...
I think a character like Ho Gu is hard to pull off. If he is too nice, he runs the risk of being a guy who lets everyone walk all over him... I liked that he told her off.
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9 Kat
February 23, 2015 at 10:02 PM
Hi JB! Just a quick typo correction: you said Kang-chul covers his face with his scarf and hood.
Ugh KC. I hate you so. Whatever Ho-kyung's got planned, I'm ready for it.
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10 pjk
February 23, 2015 at 10:23 PM
Wait, so Dohee was talking about not using a condom when she said "that thing?" LOL I totally thought she was talking about something else...I thought we were just supposed to assume she was talking about a condom and that it was just a red herring. Dang it...I don't want Kang-Chul to be the dad T_T So predictable...
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tweetpandora
February 24, 2015 at 4:14 AM
Yes I also thought it was a red herring, difficult to tell when you are relying on subs :-(
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11 Susan
February 23, 2015 at 10:24 PM
"while men abdicate responsibility because their penises need to be free" lol.
I've been thinking about watching this drama because of all the good reviews it's been getting...but I don't know if I can stand to watch Im Seulong's insufferable character.
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jomo143
February 24, 2015 at 5:53 AM
Great line!
I would like to see the banner for that cause:
Free Penises Everywhere!
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Jan
January 28, 2016 at 4:10 AM
Or they could just use "Free Willy!"
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 7:34 AM
I know, right? Such a great line.
I love when jb gets royally pissed off and draws her rapier wit to start cutting things. Doesn't happen a lot, but it's always satisfying.
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Susan
February 24, 2015 at 10:35 AM
I love sassy, snarky javabeans :P
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Gongaroo
February 24, 2015 at 11:46 AM
Ditto
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12 Sajen
February 23, 2015 at 10:34 PM
I spent an hour pacing and thinking, as I am wont to do, trying to cool my head and gather my thoughts. I'm typically pretty level headed but some things get my blood boiling, and my normally quiet tongue wagging.
No human has the right to tell another human what they can or can't do with their body.
I love Ho-gu's parents they remind me of mine.
I strongly believe from somewhere between the ages of 10 and 16 parents should be seen but not heard.
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Tammie
February 24, 2015 at 7:52 AM
Wow. Parents seen but not heard from 10-16? Seriously? Parents are to just let there pre-teen and teenagers run wild? That there is no value to a parent other than providing for the child? Perhaps is why we have a generation of entitled kids. Unbelievable.
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mommai
February 24, 2015 at 8:24 AM
GOOD care and loving guidance are super important, and can prevent people from destroying their lives. Explaining the whys and informing people of consequences, and sometimes just telling your kid no when they're too emotional or improperly invested in something extremely risky or dangerous is needed. I know I'm super glad for my parents looking out for me now in hindsight when it was hard as a teen and felt world-ending, but they definitely helped me, and kept me from situations where I could have made my future very bleak and much harder than it certainly needed to be, and I could have harmed others' as well.
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Tammie
February 24, 2015 at 8:44 AM
Amen to Mommai's comment.
Also, I'm horrified that I missed my typo. I meant their, not there when referring to the parents. Bah.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 24, 2015 at 11:01 AM
No human has the right to tell another human what they can or can't do with their bodies?
First, so Do Hee has no "right" to tell the guy she's sleeping with what to do with his penis? See where such generalizations end up. So yes, we humans can always suggest what other folks can do with their bodies...if we are good friends with them. This doesn't mean skinny girl can walk over to fat girl and tell her to lose weight but loving relationships imply a certain breach of boundaries.
As for the condoms, Hogu meant well. His parents obviously were on HoKyung's side in the argument. But even if they weren't on Little Sis's side, t should be heard. Too many drug-taking, promiscuous, unhealthy kids out in the world because they didn't listen to their parents.
Right now I'm just trying to remember where Do Hee's parents are. Is existing but absent parent worse than unloving parent? Do Hee better get into Hogu's family soon. She needs folks who love her who feel free to tell her what to do because they love her....even if they tell her in a flaky way.
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Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 4:30 PM
Wow, until you brought it up, Do-hee's parents haven't even come to my mind.
She's just such a lonely unusual drama character without the typical family/friends networks surrounding her. I can see why she went to Ho-gu, he's someone you'd want to have when nobody is there for you... but then I get really fed up watching her take him so carelessly.
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Lizzy4e
February 26, 2015 at 8:01 AM
Sweetie,
My parents were "seen and not heard" and let me tell you that was neglect.
Neglect rots the foundations of a child's self-esteem.
I have a cousin who's parents were abusive.
I was/am less messed up then her, so there is that.
From personal experience: teenagers need to be occupied. If they are idle they get into trouble. It is not that teenagers are bad; it is because they have adult size bodies capable of anything and the energy and inexperience of youth. They think they can go and do anything. God bless them.
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Lizzy4e
February 26, 2015 at 9:20 AM
THEN SHE***Not then her*** I have lost the ability to proofread. arg!
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13 elvira
February 23, 2015 at 10:53 PM
Gosh...
Never thought I'm gonna say this but
I love Hoguuuuuuuu...
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14 rhiaa
February 23, 2015 at 10:54 PM
I was totally incensed by that courtroom scene. It was wrong on all levels: procedural and substantial. HOW can Kang-chul invoke logic when the first sentence that came spewing out of his mouth is WRONG, and that there is no basis AT ALL for what he's saying? HOW can he invoke societal standards as the norm when it is NOT the law, AT ALL?
And to have the nerve to blame the woman because you didn't want to use a condom? You big baby. You weren't a willing participant when you had sex, didn't you? Now isn't that such a logical, rational thought?
Kang-chul, all I can say is: $^@#&@^%&$^
AHHH. Anyway: Hogu is perhaps the sweetest thing, and all of the bad mojo that parted hair gave me was alleviated in an instant because of him. And that cute little, blinking, sleepy Baby. Smooshing my face right now.
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Gongaroo
February 24, 2015 at 11:47 AM
Oh, I know. I was feeling the exact same way that you were about the courtroom scene. The only thing that saved me from blowing up was the knowledge that he was a complete hypocrite with a child.
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15 MissD
February 23, 2015 at 11:00 PM
WOW. Just wow. I am in love with the writers of this show!
The way they portray sexuality and contraceptives is so much more empowering and progressive than most Korean dramas. It's so refreshing to not only get a show that recognizes that adults will have relations BUT also that it's important for women to have a say over their sexual and reproductive decisions.
The scene with his sister carrying condoms and responding that people that don't have them being the ridiculous ones was SO ON POINT. And I am so glad that Ho-gu socked that jerk in the face because who does he think he is not using condoms.
Wow. I am just so impressed. Do you all know of any other shows that have dealt with sexuality and contraceptives in such a mature way?
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:38 PM
It's Okay It's Love had a condom scene if I'm not misremembering. It wasn't as big as that (I think JIS's glance clearly lingered on condoms in a store), but there were some discussions about sexuality & no pretending about apparently virginal adults in relationships.
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16 Polgara
February 23, 2015 at 11:00 PM
Doesn't use condoms?!? Umm...STDs? Do these not exist in dramaland?
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jomo143
February 24, 2015 at 5:59 AM
How proud will Kang be one day when he's being treated for some pretty chlamydia or, worse, it goes undetected for years while infects others, and yes, don't forget the big one-AIDS.
Anti-fuck you and your outdated macho bullshit, Kang!
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Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 6:35 AM
Nope! Only babies and single mothers exist in dramaland. STDs have no entertainment value whatsoever.
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17 annie
February 23, 2015 at 11:54 PM
Thanks for the super-fast recap!
I wanted to reach through the screen and put my hands around Kang-chul's neck after that courtroom scene, and I am not a violent person. I can't remember the last time a drama character made me so viscerally angry. I'm totally with you on the need to see blood, javabeans. Luckily Ho-kyung is pretty bloodthirsty herself in the pursuit of revenge, judging by that fantasy with the sword.
Ho-gu is adorable as always. My heart broke for him when he saw the bread in the garbage, but I was so proud to see his quiet dignity and the way he told her off. He's definitely a ho-gu - not a pushover, but in the heroic meaning his dad meant. I feel like his constant refrain of "My name is Kang Ho-gu" which I didn't understand at first makes so much sense now. It's his quiet way of protesting against a world that sees him as a doormat, while simultaneously proudly declaring that his name has a good meaning, one that inspires him to be a good person.
I don't know why, but I feel like that scene where KC says he doesn't and never has "used that" is an intentional misdirect. And the text from X too. I don't think he's the dad for some reason. I guess we'll see.
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Kimmy
February 24, 2015 at 7:30 AM
Ahhh! I loved your insight about the name repetition. It was getting to me but now I see it in a new light :)
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annie
February 24, 2015 at 9:21 AM
Aw, thanks! I get you, it was annoying me too, until I thought of this angle.
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18 oppaslayer
February 24, 2015 at 1:22 AM
"..while men abdicate responsibility because their penises need to be free"
Best line ever JB!
Kang Chul's behavior in this episode eternally puts him in my character shitlist and no matter what happens, he would never be redeemed in my eyes even if he drowns in a vat of his own blood.
Ho Gu reminds me so much of one of my best friends who has that same naivety and positivity in dealing with life. I can't remember how many times she has pulled me out of the dark hole that I dug myself in, despite me screaming and kicking and generally being the most cynical, grumpy person possible. I said so many shitty things to her face but she never backed down and was never afraid to call me on my bullshit and be just that smiling, steadfast friend. I guess that's why this show resonates with me so much.
I like that fact that I would be satisfied even if Ho Gu remains just that loyal friend that reveals Do Hee's heart and helps her grow, I would be quite satisfied with the show. However, moments that indicates a potential romantic love between them displays the right amount of chemistry as well i.e. The Kiss. Things could go either way and it would still make sense and feel right.
I love Ho Gu's family! They're becoming my favorite drama family.
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19 ikram
February 24, 2015 at 2:04 AM
Ep 5 was so touching when hogu thought that uee trough the meals that he brings.wait for ep 6
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20 ines
February 24, 2015 at 2:15 AM
I love the carisma between uee and choi .they are perfect.uee love is no kidding.her acting skill are the best
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21 tweetpandora
February 24, 2015 at 2:35 AM
The opening scene cracked me up so much (wonder why JB left the part out of the recap?) when it's revealed that Ho Gu was crying because the babies in the delivery room are 'born with a weird cord protruding from them' LOL what an opener for the episode. No one can be that clueless ha! I am fast falling in love with this drama. So happy its being recapped, thanks!
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:22 PM
I'm not sure if that scene was meant to suggest his cluelessness... I thought he was just still babbling while overwhelmed by his emotions and also remembering his dad's words to stay away from ropes, i.e the realisation that he just had a 'rope' in his hands!
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22 jomo143
February 24, 2015 at 6:11 AM
Thanks for the recap and giving me a place to blow off Kang-steam.
Yes, Im Seul Ong was sweet sweet in Fugitive in Joseon. This is quite a change-up. He does seem like the actor who can play the assclown without me completely hating him as a person.
Sooo glad they turned HG's own words back on him about protecting his sister. Don't carry condoms to protect your reputation? Awesome. Who's opinion do we care about exactly enough to risk getting ill or pregnant?
Not mentioning any names KHJ, but we do have a very good example of how Leaving your hat on is better than refusing to. Though I have to say, I never thought of that song with that meaning before. I love using a Joe Cocker song for a reminder for safe sex.
Lastly, and again, Eff you, Kang!
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 24, 2015 at 11:03 AM
"That umbrella we employed it..by August she was mine!"
I am so hoping there is no redmeption arc for Kang.
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jomo143
February 25, 2015 at 10:10 AM
ORLY? I missed that one, too?!
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 11:41 AM
yeah, back in the day "umbrella" was a slang word for condom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdQJXrPmsLw
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23 CaroleMcDonnell
February 24, 2015 at 6:20 AM
Thanks for the recap! I am sooooooooooo happy there are no secrets. The writer is being as straight-forward as possible and using real plot points instead of the typical kdrama tropes..and is being so inventive with tropes and social issues. Love this drama.
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owl
February 24, 2015 at 12:39 PM
Hi Carole ~ For example, up until this episode, it looked like Kang chul was the father, but I kept thinking that kdrmas do that sometimes and it turns out to not be the way it seemed. However, the direct, flamingly ugly honest conversation with Do Hee in the hospital room made it clear that he's is and is as much a jerk about it as he was in the courtroom (can't call him two-faced, he's a 100% royal jerk 24/7). My point is the drama was direct about it all along, and I think we can watch the developments of the story as being honest, as well.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 11:43 AM
I love how the writer is being not only honest but brave. All tough issues gently flavored with the sweetness of Hogu.
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24 Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 6:32 AM
This was such a great episode. Ho-gu is such a sweetheart.
I found it strange how people were infuriated by this episode. I really saw the courtroom scene (as well as all of Ho Kyung's lectures) as farce, and I think those scenes were acted and directed well enough that it comes off that way and works effectively. To be honest, I am quite impressed with the way in which the writer manages to bring out all sides of the abortion/single parenthood/ safe-sex issue in a way that isn't dull and moralistic (I can't stand it when people preach, regardless of whether I agree with their views or not).
Maybe that's because I've always seen Kang-chul and Ho-Kyung as caricatures representing certain ideas (perhaps taken to the extreme), rather than as characters whose words/ actions need to be taken at face value.
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Kimmy
February 24, 2015 at 7:38 AM
Agreed. I see the scenes more like a black comedy - almost satirical yet still showing us attitudes that exist in today's world. And it totally isn't preachy! Which is really nice in my opinion, as it respects the spectrum of how conservative you are with regards to relationships, but shows how the extremes just really don't cut it! It just lays out viewpoints for you to /feel/ something about the issue. Which is great.
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Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM
Yeah, that's something I really appreciate about this drama. It would be off-putting if the writer was pushing her own agenda, but I like how this episode seemed like a mini-debate about the different views out there without telling you what is right/wrong (because most people fall somewhere in the middle between Kang-Chul and Ho-Kyung).
I think black comedy/ satire is definitely the tone of those courtroom/lecture scenes. I definitely got the comedy and was always laughing through those (seriously, the courtroom and elevator scenes are hilarious once you stop taking Kang-chul seriously, the music really helps to get that effect), but looking at all the angry comments on the forum, I wonder if the drama wasn't able to get that across to most of it's viewers?
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:30 PM
<I really saw the courtroom scene (as well as all of Ho Kyung’s lectures) as farce
I sort of did too. I mean, I still think Kang-chul is a jerk & worse and can't wait for him to be whipped by Ho-kyung (who I think is awesome – not lacking 'sincerity' as some here feel) but, for me, there's a "manga" filter on this drama. That means some things are pushed to the extreme that I don't have to take 100% literally. I'd hate Kang-chul and Ho-kyung if this drama were set up as completely realistic, but it's not. The fantasy sequences aren't there for nothing!
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25 pimpy
February 24, 2015 at 7:29 AM
Lol I know you want to see blood as a revenge for Kang Chul. Of course I'm detesting his character but sometimes I'm just laughing over his character, like wow a douchebag at its finest. Anyway, I am loving this drama for being able to tackle social issues without being too serious or preachy. And always and forever team Ho Gu.
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26 JoyBells
February 24, 2015 at 8:36 AM
Urgh!! Kang-chul. I mentally sucker punched him a hundred times while watching this episode.I don't know if i'll ever grow to like him later even if his character goes through a change.
I do feel that his mum knows about Do-hee's pregnancy and that why she had such a strong reaction and is trying to set him up with another girl.
I was so proud of Ho-gu when he stood up for himself and he spoke his mind.I hope he continues to progress.
Also the nurse is totally adorable,so bright and upbeat. LOL. I'd like nurses like her when i go to hospitals,i would feel a bit better with someone so cheerful around.
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ahsaem
February 24, 2015 at 10:52 AM
Ikr, I love the cheerful nurse. Even on the phone( with do hee) , she sounds happy.
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alua
February 24, 2015 at 12:56 PM
The nurse seems like someone who can't be fazed by anything. Like she's seen everything – the biggest drama queen mom-to-be's, the deadbeat dads that run off, the know-it-all in-laws, you name it. She just nods and smiles and keeps running the show the way it needs to be run. Hence no discussion with Ho-gu when he says on the phone that he probably won't come.
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27 peaches
February 24, 2015 at 9:23 AM
i worry a little bit that the drama will assume that the viewers will like kang-chul in the end by making him suffer a little bit at the hands of ho-kyung before falling hopelessly in love with her, just because he's (physically) cute and quirky. yes, i agree- some blood would be nice. i feel like he's a bit unredeemable, so the drama will have to really work to turn him around.....i'm not really wanting him to be redeemed though. i don't think i could ever like his character, and i don't really want the drama to manipulate me into forgiving him.
javabeans' comments are always on point. unlike some other posts i've seen where do-hee's character is bashed in grossly misogynistic ways.
on an unrelated note, i wonder how these trends come about in dramaland. ever since watching king of dramas, i think of planted spies and all sorts of other ridiculous conspiracy theories. but it's not like all the networks sit down together and decide on the trends together, right? who steals from who and how?? very curious, bc it doesn't really work the same way in japan- no patterns (ex. mental illness, reporters) that are as recognizable every season, though of course there are preferred tropes/themes.
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28 Aigoooo
February 24, 2015 at 12:23 PM
I think this is the first Kdrama I have ever seen where the hospital doors were not sliding doors. lol Also, this drama does a lot of extreme emotion transitions from scene to scene. From extreme melo to extreme silly all in a span of a few minutes gets really emotionally confusing for me.
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29 Islander north
February 24, 2015 at 2:06 PM
I thought Kang-Chul's mother was referring to her husband having extra-marital affairs. He is so self-centered that is seems probable.
Ho-Kyung's opinion on the condoms seemed a bit radical...you don't have sex by bumping into someone on the bus. She doesn't even have a real boyfriend at this point.
The rise of single motherhood has been a disaster in the US: poverty, neglect, abuse and delinquency all are way higher for children raised by single mothers. Of course, these children are better than the aborted. We don't stone single mothers, but it's also not to society's benefit to promote single parenthood.
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PeepsLeAwesomePotato
February 25, 2015 at 12:23 AM
Nobody's promoting single parenthood (or stoning those parents), but it surely can't be good to imply or assume that those children will turn out to be whacks just because they only have one parent. How about helping single parents instead of just putting them down?
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30 glitzmadrb
February 24, 2015 at 3:59 PM
I was watching this episode with so much enjoyment when Hogu says his usual lines "My name is Kang Hogu", and I was like, "it's the end already?"
This is such a fun fun fun (ha three times) drama, and I'm super enjoying it right now. I love the characters especially Hogu of course. I can't wait for the next episode.
One thing though, I don't know if it's the actor or his character but I am not really feeling Kang Chul right now. I don't know, in the court scene, I feel he lacked the emotions I am expecting him to convey. Then again, maybe it might be because of his character - that egotistical alpha male who's just so full of himself thinking everyone should worship him and adore him and that he should be king. (Whew! Got it all out of my system.) Guys like him, I'm better off being a single mom if I am one, than spending my married life with him.
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31 no name #6
February 24, 2015 at 4:19 PM
Wow, lots of anger and frustration about Kang-chul. Not totally unexpectedly, I guess. I was also hoping someone might "accidentally" kick him in the crotch too, like Ho-kyung did to Ho-gu.
Something not many have talked about: Ho-gu's reaction to the condoms. I felt a little like his reaction was slightly out of character for him from what we've seen so far. He's naive, yes, but I've never seen any hint of closed-mindedness or prudishness from him before. I mean, he knows what his sister is like! He sees her coming back in after her dates! So what was that all about? Hm.
The only thing I can think of to rationalize it is that he was just so shocked to be in that situation, with all the condoms just RIGHT THERE. Parents and all. And maybe he just started saying what he thought a good older brother should say? (Which: wrong answer, Ho-gu. Wrong answer.) I don't know. I did find it a little off-putting. I hope that side of him is not going to rear its ugly head again.
And the subs for this ep (df) had me confused, especially after reading the recap here. Did anyone at any point explicitly mention condoms in the scene at the hospital? Do-hee or Kang-chul? And then in the elevator, Kang-chul doesn't actually say anything about condoms, he's talking about something else that just sounds like that? The df subs definitely had him saying "condom" somewhere in there.
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emily
February 24, 2015 at 4:32 PM
yeah that little speech of hogu's was very off putting. I also thought him getting so upset over the food also came across as his being angry at do hee for considering an abortion "you can't just throw it away like that!" He seemed to want to shame her for that choice she had made. I want to give him more chances as I think the drama will show him adjusting his views through dohee and her son but ugh between that and his busybody-ness and no. not really feeling hogu the way others are.
I also thought that the professor was subtely suggesting her husband was cheating....
The ending elevator scene was def confusing subbed. what is a condos anyway???
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no name #6
February 24, 2015 at 4:54 PM
Yeah, I forgot about the "you can't just throw it away" speech. I interpreted it similarly, and didn't like it either. It also seemed odd to me that he would be so upset at this point in the story that she had considered abortion before. Especially since she obviously didn't do it. No one needs to shame her, period. But she didn't even go through with it, so just leave her alone, Ho-gu. Hmph.
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Herecomestrouble
February 25, 2015 at 11:02 PM
Ho-Gu seems very old-fashioned, he doesn't like what "love" is these days... as you saw a few episodes ago, he also probably believes you should have sex with someone you love and trust, not for fun. I kind-of agree with Ho-Gu.
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32 Old-fashioned
February 24, 2015 at 5:24 PM
Am I the only old-fashioned person here? Because Ho-Kyung's views on male-female relationships (and her parents') make my stomach churn.
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William Schwartz
February 24, 2015 at 5:48 PM
You're not, no. I found all of the political discussion this episode to be rather disturbing and moralistic, regardless of what point was being argued at the time. I'm completely at a loss for why the drama decided to go for abstract discussion of these issues when to date it's been engaging mainly on the personal level.
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mommai
February 24, 2015 at 6:23 PM
Here's another, to help you feel less alone! ;)
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nomad
February 24, 2015 at 6:25 PM
you're not alone...but the court discussion makes my stomach churns even more.
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Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 6:42 PM
For me, I got really frustrated with their views on "let's use condoms". Sure, condoms definitely reduce the chances of getting STDs and getting pregnant, but it is sooo simplistic when people think Condoms= completely safe-sex/ no consequences. Because condoms aren't 100% foolproof, and this needs to figure in the discussion as well. People can still get pregnant/STDs even when using condoms. It definitely helps, but it isn't a magic wand that will wave away all the unwanted consequences of sex all the time.
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William Schwartz
February 24, 2015 at 6:47 PM
Fun fact- coitus interruptus actually has about the same success rate of preventing pregnancy as condoms do. This is mainly because quite a few people put them on incorrectly, and also they break.
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Emmy
February 24, 2015 at 7:53 PM
For the purpose of preventing pregnancy, condoms are definitely one of the poorer options out there. The pill, IUD, contraceptive injection all work way better than condoms.
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Scarlett
February 24, 2015 at 9:14 PM
But you can use this others options only when you know beforehand that you'll have sex.
The pill is only effective after a month taking it regularly, you can't forget and need to took it everyday in the same time. And it has some serious collateral effects.
IUD, you need to go to a doctor to put it.
Contraceptive injection needs prescription and it needs some time to start to work. And like the pill it has colateral effects too.
And all this 3 methods are totally ineffective to STDs. (coitus interruptus too)
Condom isn't 100% secure (the only infallible option is no-sex), but it's the only method you can start to use just after you decide to have sex.
William Schwartz
February 25, 2015 at 2:20 AM
All very true points. The thing is, in the context of the drama, a lack of condom access isn't what caused Do-hee's pregnancy. It was the refusal on Kang-cheol's part to wear them. So from that perspective Ho-kyeong's speech still comes off rather naively regardless of how effective condoms are.
One way to view these plot points in tandem is by considering the matter in terms of Do-hee's agency. Kang-cheol explicitly warned Do-hee that even if they had sex, he still wouldn't think of her as a person- and she decided to go through with it anyway. At the very least it matches her character pattern of making bad decisions. Kang-cheol told Do-hee straight out it was a bad idea and she decided to it anyway, consequences be darned.
...Unfortunately I got the distinct impression from this week's episodes that we're not actually going to get any serious discussion of how Do-hee has created almost all of the major crises in her life- and now that the baby's involved, other peoples' lives too. Hence why I'm rather pessimistic on the drama's future right now.
Scarlett
February 25, 2015 at 10:13 AM
@William Schwartz I got your point!
I'm confused, in the subs I watched Kang Cheol never mentioned "condom" when he talked to Do Hee. I don't understand korean, but I think it makes sense to make that conversation dubious. And if he isn't the baby's dad the drama will be more interesting.
About Do Hee deciding to have the baby, I have a question: Is abortion permitted in South Korea?
The way you expressed your opinion it looks like you live in a country that it is permitted. But I live in a country that isn't (only in special cases, like rape victims and risk of life) and I had a totally different impression about her dilemma.
William Schwartz
February 25, 2015 at 5:17 PM
Abortion is technically illegal in Korea, but because the country uses a Civil Legal Code this law is almost impossible to enforce. There's no one who could sue for damages. In practical terms you can get an abortion at any OB/GYN office. The reason Do-hee went to one in the the middle of nowhere is because as a celebrity it was important she not be recognized.
They were using euphemisms and pronouns to discuss the situation. Actually, the drama has been so abstract lately I don't blame you for being a bit confused...I realized at one point yesterday that there was a huge angle I completely failed to notice in the sixth episode. But I'd already posted a rather blistering review. Oops...
jomo143
February 25, 2015 at 10:05 AM
From what I have read, the males of SK do not "participate in" birth control readily. The women have a difficult time getting them to use condoms. This show is addressing that and trying to make them seem more normal.
Here is the article. It was written in 2008 and updated in 2014, so I am sure the numbers for condom use are higher now.
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William Schwartz
February 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM
That article uses a buttload of weasel words. Note this passage-
"According to previous research, mostly conducted in the five years before this survey, “the percentage of consistent condom use among young people as well as in the general population was relatively lower than in other countries."
Relatively lower, not significantly or substantially lower. The article lacks any relevant data comparing Korea to other OECD countries in this regard. And what little evidence the author does provide is spurious. I can think of exactly one condom commercial I've seen in my entire life in the United States, and it was pretty crude and unpersuasive. That's a pretty shoddy benchmark for sexual enlightenment in my mind.
tweetpandora
February 25, 2015 at 9:15 AM
Nope, call me old fashioned, but I have never heard of an older brother who wouldn't squirm at the thought of his little sister using condoms...plus this is Korea we are talking about so I found that scene really unrealistic and could totally understand Ho Gu. Of course you should use protection is you are gonna be sexually active, its the responsible thing to do, but the blasé attitude (both by Ho Kyung and the parents) felt very unrealistic.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 1:18 PM
I'm pretty old-fashioned but I thought Ho Kyung is posing. I doubt she's actually had a boyfriend. She's had "some" dates and "some" experiments but no real relationships and she's totally fudging her sexual experiences i think.
I think the drama is aware that it is dealing with important issues and those conversations in the drama seem geared to making viewers discuss these issues. There are families that never talk about sex...especially in conservative cultures. They simply say "don't get a baby with the wrong person" and don't embarrass your family. I like that this drama is showing that there are families where sexual conversations are not frowned upon. And to show them as normal emotionally-connected families.
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William Schwartz
February 25, 2015 at 5:21 PM
I think you're right about the posing. I had a lot of trouble following Ho-kyeong's storylines this week because the drama appeared to be making her the voice of authority by having her state all these "correct" opinions. But upon further reflection I think it's quite possible that her opinions are also intended to come off as pretty intriniscally flawed. Agh, why did I only think of this after I posted that review...
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33 Flyingcockroaches
February 24, 2015 at 6:45 PM
I absolutely loved the moment where the elevator door was closing and Ho Gu threw the last piece of bread in like he was making it rain. Perfect mix of comedy and badassery.
When Ho Gu freaked out about his sister's condoms I (mistakingly?) put his reaction in the context of having this new nostalgic look on life. He just spent all this time remembering when she was little and how they grew up together and then there were condoms. Without subtitles I assumed it was more of an older brother protective vibe. My Korean isn't that good so I may have been missing something.
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Scarlett
February 24, 2015 at 8:45 PM
@Flyingcockroaches it wasn't bread... The last thing he throw was a condom! The one his sister gave him.
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Flyingcockroaches
February 25, 2015 at 5:38 PM
Ha. Even better!
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34 es
February 24, 2015 at 9:55 PM
I don't even want to see kang-chul redeemed lmfao. I just want to see Ho-kyung inflict a lifetime of misery and pain on him. Don't disappoint me Ho-kyung!!
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35 DHM
February 25, 2015 at 10:21 AM
There's a lot more sweetness here than I expected, but I find Dad's 'reverence' for women irksome. It's a double standard (which I ought to be used to by now, but I am not)-
If he were a mom instructing a daughter to treat men with reverence because they are more awesome than women, we'd all be puking or screaming or both.
I don't know why it's wonderful just so long as it's men being reverential and fawning over the superiority of women. Why not simply have each sex respect the other?
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tweetpandora
February 25, 2015 at 10:55 AM
Those were my thoughts exactly....feminism is equality of the sexes and mutual respect, none is better than the other.
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CaroleMcDonnell
February 25, 2015 at 1:29 PM
A lot of guys have that attitude toward women who have had babies. Babymaker as goddess. It's a very normal psychological mindset and not that rare. But in this case...it's wonderful because it's being done in an Asian culture where that kind of thinking is just considered odd. Korea is not as extreme as Japan in its attitude toward women but what seems just a little flaky and weird (slightly) to us is courageous and a challenge to society to other people. I think we should remember that. Same thing happens when we see kdramas where homosexuality is discussed in a very accepting way. We may think it's old hat but for the writers, it's a super brave thing to write. And lastly, the writer is presenting a story..therefore characters, setting, dialog and theme all have to work together. In this case, it looks as if we'll be dealing with issues of balance between what is conservative and what is progressive andhow to honor tradition while still accepting human behavior and modern times. There might also be stuff about what men can get away with (exploration of male behavior and male privilege) and what women can get away with. Writers dont write merely to entertain; they write to say somethin...in this case, they are examining family, morals, innocence, and judgmentalism. So let 'em.
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jomo143
February 25, 2015 at 5:04 PM
I don't know if in Dad's case he is deifying all women, but after his wife had babies saw "Ahhhhhhh - clouds open up and the truth shines through" about how effing difficult it is to have a baby.
I had the same experience about MY mother after I had my first baby. She had seven, and loved us all equally. Childbirth made me astounded by this woman that I had known all my life. Why didn't I see it beforehand?
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36 maripaz
February 26, 2015 at 6:35 AM
I love this show but I had to laugh when the nurse called hogu to come massage dohees stomach. Didn't she end up having a c section? Pretty sure stomach massages are a no-no! I guess for a show that depicted a somewhat more realistic image of labor, it really stood out to me. That and the umbilical cord cutting.
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37 daktari34
February 26, 2015 at 8:38 AM
Did JB stop recapping this? Or is the Ep6 recap just late?
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38 Noelle
February 26, 2015 at 12:09 PM
I hope that ending wasn't his imagination.
I know people hate KC but I see why the writers wrote him that way. For one this is view held by a lot of people. He's merely a representation of a society who has yet to change. I watched EYK and they talked about single mothers in Korea. What they talked about was sad. How single mothers keep that part of their life secret because their jobs could be in jeopardy and they might lose their friends. They also receive little government aid. Men don't have responsibility. Legally speaking they have to sign a paper to pay child support but there is nothing making them sign this paper so mothers get no help. KC ark is important to me because it will bring things to light and put it in the forefront.
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39 sanasy
April 3, 2015 at 11:48 AM
What's the rock song his sister listens to? (43rd minute)
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40 goldeng
May 25, 2015 at 12:36 AM
im super late watching this drama but even tho Kang chul's words were harsh, what really infuriated me was his dad being all "give me food! give me food! give me fruit!" like WTF?? U WANNA EAT? MAKE UR EFFING FOOD YOURSELF! that "my wife is my maid and she should leave everything shes doing to stare at my face" attitude can ruin my day ... theyre purposely putting 2 completely opposite points of view with KC and HG's families.To see how ignorant they are despite been mighty rich and KC being 10th in the country, speaks volumes since some people think "rich" means "educated/well-mannered" and I wish they could get schooled just like Hogu since he clearly changed with HK lecturing him about protecting herself from nasty bastards...
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41 Coccinelle
December 28, 2015 at 6:37 AM
"Furthermore, these are made to protect her body from selfish men who don’t want to be bothered with the hassle."
I don't really like that. If those men are so selfish, why associate with them? In my opinion, it's not all men who don't carry condoms that are selfish, it's all men like Kang Chul who don't want to have sex with condoms.
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42 purr-lee
June 21, 2016 at 2:30 PM
Hi, somebody know the rock song Ho Kyeong is listening to in her room (35:55 min or 43min depending were you're watching the drama) ?? PLEASE
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