Omg. Yes. Exactly. It really really bugs me when in KBS World they put the character's name instead of their relation to the other person? And in Korean there are about 75 million ways to say 'person' (yeah OK that's an exaggeration) but it almost always gets translated as 'him' and it really drives me nuts. Because for example in Dalja's Spring, the affection with which Dalja refers to Taebong as 'keu nyeosok' is totally lost. Thank you for this post!

I've learned another thing about the Korean language that I never knew of, thanks for filling us in. Before the k-dramas I didn't know too much about Korean or their culture but now I've been expose to a bit of it from the dramas and thanks to subbers like you.

Very informative post!
Fansubbing--well, providing subtitles in general is tough because things do tend to get lost in translation. Asian countries tend to have certain expressions, terms and words that are a headache to translate into English, simply because there is no direct translation. I rely a lot on fansubbers when it comes to understanding the dramas I watch, because even if dramas are aired in my country (Philippines), they are dubbed in the local language. It shouldn't be a big deal because it'll be easily understood by majority of the viewing public (read:those who probably will never bother buying DVDs/don't know about fansubs, etc), but it pains me to watch because:
- They completely change the character names. In Goong, for example, Shin became Prince Gian, Chaegyung became Janelle, Yul as Prince Troy. ACKKK. (I think the only dubbed dramas that kept the original names were Kim Sam Soon--but only Sam Soon and TWdrama Meteor Garden)
- Since I can't speak Korean, I only rely on fansubbers. Therefore, I base my opinion on correct subtitles on the fansubbers work. I feel that they are able to somehow prevent as much "lost in translation" scenarios as possible. Sometimes when dubbed in the local language, what the characters end up saying are completely different from what I've seen from the fansubbed version.

This is getting long. I just wanted to say that the dramas aired on TV are not targeted towards me (a diff. kind of viewer) so really, fansubbers' work + explanations such as yours are really helpful.

Javabeans you seriously have a way with words, being a poet I notice that right away, very smooth and just really nice flow to it. That sounds weird...yeah I just like the way you present topics. I started off with subs watching Japanese anime, and fansubs tend to be better than "professional" ones in my opinion, sometimes you can tell the translation is not right. Living in America, it is because of people like you that I get to enjoy another culture, I've learned a lot and enjoyed so much from k-dramas, I also watch Chinese/Taiwanese ones, but to me Jap/Korean are the top ones with some exceptions. I feel honored to be watching subs that you have done and others, now I take the time to notice the names because some of them are on soompi. I give you an infinite amount of thanks for your hard work, and the hard work of all subbers out there who are so generous to share these wonderful dramas with us. That is why is gets on my nerves when people complain, because it's not like you guys have to do it, so they should just get a clue.Well thanks as usual and look forward to your next blogs!!!

I need to thank all the wonderful fansubbers out there especially the group from With S2 because most of the series I've watched were subbed by you guys. The quality of the subtitles is perfect when compared to the local TV station at my place for certain series. Korean is a very interesting language, and I actually learned quite a few things from watching subbed dramas.

Again, I really appreciate everything you guys have done and thank you for all the subs. :)

I definitely agree with leaving in words such as "oppa", royal titles, etc. because it helps viewer understand bits of Korean culture.
Also, I prefer fansubs over professional ones because it really help me learn the language while watching dramas.

btw, Anna Jo's catchphrase in "Fantasy Couple": koraji ha gun neun... what is it translated to literally?

Umm this is random, but this is Bamidele, I just got a blog on wordpress and I wanted to ask how you link music? Sorry for being of topic, your help would be very appreciated...thanks!!!!

Hi Sarah!
The Korean language is fascinating to me! Fan-subbers are my Korean teachers in a way because that's where I begin to pick up phrases here and there. Before K-drama, I was clueless about anything Korean. So my knowledge of the language was at level ZERO. =) As I watch more K-dramas and K-variety shows, my comprehension of the language increased and this is all thanks to kind souls that are willing to sub these shows.

Besides, I learn about the Korean culture through its language. For instance, it is still interesting to me that you can tell about two persons' relationship and status by just listening to what they call each other. By calling a person Tae Joo-ah versus Tae Joo-shi can tell be so revealing. Compare it to John or Peter...?? =)

@doozy, "kkoraji hago neun" is a slang way of saying, "Look at that" with the implication that it's a sad sight, something to look down upon.

@Bamidele, the audio tag for songs is [audio http://inserturlhere]. You can upload the song directly into wordpress and insert the wordpress URL, or upload it to another server and just insert the appropriate link address (but if you do that, make sure you're not hotlinking from someone without their permission). Hope that makes sense! There's a FAQ that's pretty good too, if you need more info.

@ginnie, you're not a native korean speaker? I assumed you were because you understood so much of QSS... wow, kudos to you for all your efforts!

thanks, will try it!!!

This was definitely a very infromative post. Thanks for the insight sarah. I've been an avid k-drama fan eversince. Eversince i started using fansubbed stuff ive been appreciating the korean language and culture, which is why i think i love korean stuff and learning the language interests me. I pick up most of what know from fansubs im trying to learn it. I was very helpful because the terms where used well and they were expounded on as oppossed to those i saw before which translated into very weird uncoordinated english sentences or something that sounded odd when literally transalted. it good to have an idea about how stuff works, like the terms, expression and all that. when i watched twdramas with subs like dvds etc, i was funny coz i understand the really sentence but the english sentences doesnt always make sense. maybe in movies it would be easier. ok, im rambling here now. anyways, i really appreciate fansubs and the orginality of the language rather than the dubbed and 'pro' subbed. i really want to learn now and know more about korean slang expression etc.

Very interesting comments. I don't speak Korean but I have fansubbed. I am forced to translate from the English (into Spanish). This presents the issue of having to rely on someone who translated from the Korean and whatever went into their decision to translate or not translate certain phrases etc.
As far as my subbing goes I tend to stay away from slang as much as possible. Spanish being spoken and developing on different continents means that slang can be very different as well.

Your mention of Goong S struck me because I have been attempting to sub ep. 1. One thing I am coming up against is Hoo's using ajussi for someone who is essentially a surrogate father for him. Right now it's a toss up between using tio (uncle) to denote the familial sentiment and using Don ß no English for this but basically it's a term of respect for an older person. The problem with Don is it can be for any older person and doesn't necessarily convey Hoo's feelings. I'm still undecided on that one. Goong S is pretty challenging because of the royal terms and the slang present.

zeram - Hm, that's interesting. The reason the word isn't translated as "uncle" into English is because Koreans don't tend to use the word uncle or aunt for people who aren't actually their uncles or aunts, in the way that it seems Chinese (and Spanish speakers?) do. In Korean, that word is ajusshi or ajumma -- it can mean a generic middle-aged person, but it's also used to denote familiarity. If that word is "uncle" in your target language, i think it's up to you to decide how to convey that...

Yes, the royal terms are fairly challenging! One tricky thing I encountered was being consistent, because there are no direct equivalents and are therefore many ways to say the same thing. If you have any specific questions about the translations (are you working from With S2's english subs?), feel free to drop me a line and I'll try to help if I can. :)

Javabeans..or I guess your name is Sarah right? What you have written about fansubbing is very interesting. I understand the challenges you encounter very well. I don't speak Korean or Japanese. I'm Malaysian, so I understand those challenges because I see them everyday on our local TV. Most of our english shows are subtitled and sometimes the subtitles are really really bad, especially if the so-called pro does not really understand the quirks or idioms of English. I sometimes do wonder how they got the job! Our k and jdramas are mostly dubbed into Mandarin or Malay, and even that to me is annoying because I prefer listening to the original language and I'm pretty sure a lot of things are lost in translation. So I much prefer fansubbers' work, because I find that they seem truer to the show plus I get to learn a lot of things about Korean and Japanese culture and language because you guys actually bother to explain them. So thank you so much for all your effort!! It is truly and greatly appreciated...

JM - The term "unni," aside from being used by a girl to her older blood sister (or cousin), can be used to refer to any older female with whom she is pretty familiar. A girl wouldn't use it with a girl she's not that friendly with -- in Kim Samsoon, for instance, Hee Jin is in the middle of a heated conversation with Samsoon and calls her "unni," to which Samsoon balks. They're not in that kind of relationship, so "unni" is inappropriate.

One case you can use "unni" for a stranger is, for instance, if you're talking to a stranger or service person and both parties are fairly young -- say, a girl who works as a store clerk. It's also a slang thing I've noticed that even some older ladies call younger girls "unni" in a bid to be hip. I've been called "unni" by women at least fifteen years older, for instance at my hair salon, but usually those women weren't your typical middle aged women. They're a little more trendy and young-spirited.

So a guy using the term "unni" is using it loosely, just to mean "girl."

Hello, I found this blog through soompi. ^_^ And I just have to say that what you write is really interesting to read, especially about fansubbing. I don't speak Korean, but I've noticed some certain things about the language as well the more that I watched Korean dramas and such. It also led me to notice the differences in other languages, including my own native language. It's very challenging to try to translate your language and convey the same feel. I find that sometimes when you translate something in my language, such as a very strong statement, it can come off as really weak in English, even though the words chosen are literally correct.

I wanted to ask however, I thought the Korean term "unni" refers to an older sister status or just a female who is older, from a female speaker. And from a male standpoint, the term would be "noona." However, I've noticed a couple of series where the guy would refer to the girl as "unni" (such as in Hello! Miss and Fantasy Couple). Ha Suk Jin's character refers to that model girl (sorry, I forgot her name) as the difficult "unni." Why is that?

Yes, I agree~ fansubs are much better and manythanks to the wonderful Withs2 subbing team ^____^
I also agree with the prof. subs, esp. in KBS world even if they say Eonnie or Oppa they translate it to the characters name, which also got me a bit off at first when I started watching @KBS world. and nice song of the day, I actually enjoy Eom Jung Hwa`s songs ~ glad you do too ^^

ooh i like this song a lot! good pick!

Hi! Great posts...Hey do you know the name of the cell phone song that Lee Da Hae has in the drama Hello Miss? I know its a weird question, but its so cute i want to post it to my phone! Thanks!

Hi Sarah,
Your blog is very informative. I like the way you present yout thoughts. Watching K-Drama developed my interest in the Korean Language and Culture. Your pointers are helpful. Right now i am trying to understand the script... I am so interested in learning the language that I am thinking of enrolling to a Korean Language school here but i want to be prepared =)
I enjoy reading reviews on K-Drama make me understand the story more as I am also relying on sub. SOme of the DVDs here are poorly subbed so many grammatical errors and some of the lines are transalated directly without considering the entire statement. Also, you mentioned of consistency I think that is very important. Great Blog.

wow, this post has been really interesting and informative. i think it shows the rest of us why fansubbers enjoy what they're doing. thank you for sharing.

djes, he's using it as a slang term. it's kind of a recent trend for men to call women "unni." it's been a slang thing for a while for older women to call younger women "unni" as well (when it's clearly obvious that they shouldn't be using "unni" since they're older). it's definitely not that he got confused, or the actor made a mistake, which i've heard some people wonder -- something that big isn't a mistake, it's done purposely. i guess you can look at it as this -- such a blatant, conscious breaking of the language rules usually achieves the effect of slang speech.

At the risk of sounding like a hallmark card, I'll say this. Last year, I fell really sick and was in bed for a whole month. One of the students I teach told me to watch these Korean dramas he had seen. I reluctantly agreed since he had been talking about these dramas constantly, and at this point, I just wanted him to shut up. To cut a long story short, I am addicted hook, line, and sinker. Appreciate what you and WITH S2 do for all of us non-Korean speakers out there. Kumawo.

hey i love ur blogs ....and i am really appriciative that you take your time out and and translate all theres wonderful dramas to english for us. seriously fan subed dramas have totally a gazillion times better stuff then what iv seen on dvds iv bought , my copy of My Girl spelt korea as corea and accident as assident ...lol.....i had a intersting time trying to understand what they sed ....

anyways keep up the good wrk

That's very interesting. I also appreciate two of the things you mentioned: first when, in the subs, cultural explanations are added in- it was especially helpful in HYD and bits of Goong when they'd deal with certaint foods ect. Secondly the use of korean terms. I know I won't be speaking fluent korean any time soon but I like hearing the terms "Oppa", "Nuna", "Umma" ect. in context. Like you said their is a difference between using personal terms and just the characters name continually.
~thanks for explanation~

The spellings are different because Korean doesn't romanize perfectly with English, not the way that Japanese does, for instance. There have also been recent changes to romanization standards, which can account for the discrepancies. It's somewhat similar to pinyin versus Wade Giles, which produced different English spellings of the same Chinese words.

Then, some people purposely go contrary to the romanization "rule" because they prefer how a different spelling looks. For instance, Oh Ji Ho goes by Oh Zio a lot, although the 'z' character is never used in standard Korean romanization. It makes it look Chinese, actually. Heo Yi Jae also uses Hur E-Jae sometimes, which is a spelling I hate.

There are distinct reasons for spelling Jeong rather than Jung, Joon rather than Jun, or Hae versus Hye. But rules get ignored a lot.

just curious, why are the spellings different?

i mean how do you discern between using oo or u? or using u or eong? or using y or a? or using yu or ryeo? or using k or g? or using j or z or ch?

and how do you know which spellings to combine with which spellings?

for ex, joo ji hoon - ju ji hun. KIM JUNG HUN - KIM JEONG HOON. song hye kyo - song hae gyo. JUNG RYU WON - JEONG RYEO WON. jo in sung - zo in sung or cho in sung. KANG HYE JUNG - GANG HYE JEONG.

coz sometimes it's hard to google search.

I am a big fan of lily's work for HYD and so really enjoyed this informative post :)

thanks

but what does hyung really mean? is it a more personal way of saying older brother?

Thank you for all your effort to translate the K-drama to english. In Indonesia, a lot of K drama subtitles was amusing because the translator give the wrong meaning for every word.Thanks to S2 fansub.

exactly... many times I have laughed over the subs or am throughly frustrated that I cannot understand at all. This is never the case with the Kdrama series that Javabeans have so diligently worked on... Thank you! :)

You're so right. The more you watch kdramas, the more you understand the Korean language and how strange it sounds when it is translated too literally. I totally trust your judgement on this one.

Interesting post! I have often wondered about some of those things you mentioned when watching things that have been translated just what gets left out and changed! I personally do enjoy when little things like oppa, etc are left in, only because I have seen enough dramas to catch on but I know with Goong I was at a complete loss when new terms for the royal family were mentioned and a lot of times the long titles would be a pain to read and I would have to guess as to who the heck they were talking about.
I think that it's a good idea to leave those cultural points in but I greatly appreciate when they are explained somewhere (say the top of the screen) when those new terms are introduced so that I understand -and get *why* it is left in. For example in Soulmate:
[To the dog] “Kiss your oppa.”
“But Pil-soon’s a boy.”
“Really? Then kiss your hyung.”
If you don't know the difference between oppa and hyung then it not being translated holds no meaning, but instead is confusing but if say again at the top of the screen you have the meaning of oppa and hyung then the person watching gets clued in to why it is cute, and his reaction versus say Phillip's. Just my $.02! Can't wait til my korean is at that level!!!!

Ok...so this is a really laaaaaaaate comment (I don't think you'll even get this!)

but I just really appreciate the explanation on the nuances of the Korean language. It's really fascinating to me and of course I wouldn't know otherwise if people like you did not take the time to explain. Thank you so much and I look forward to reading more culturally informative posts like this!

can i check with the korean speaking here, is Aegisshi the respectful form of agasshi?

since korean is phonetic, shouldn't there be a precise pronunciation for every syllabus? for instance, annyeong haseyo is romanized as such and there can't be any pronunciation, right? I mean, this is quite unlike Chinese/Japanese, where a single chinese character can have different pronunciation depending on the words in the vicinity.

i don't get the part about delightful girl choon hyang- so what if “what a joke” is not a catch phrase?

thank u!

Fansubbers Rock! I would not be able to watch (and enjoy) all this Kdrama goodness without them!

btw, One of my favorite things fansubbers do is translate the songs! I hate when I'm watching the "Pro" subbed version of a show and the song (which usually tells alot about the show/scene) is not subbed. Why skip the songs??!?

:-)

hi javabeans,

thanks for the post. it's very interesting
i've become more & more interested in the ways of translating from one lang to another.
right now, i'm studying translation from english to arabic as base and from arabic to eng. and i found that there is a huge gap between the 2 languages especially their expressions. it's rarally to find an arabic expression have an accurate equivalent in eng.
however, through watching and translating some korean dramas (specially ones that translate literally to eng) i found that korean lang has many similar expressions to arabic ones. for example, the expression "rolled yourself up and leave" has an accurate slang equivalent in the arabic lang which surprised me coz korean and arabic culture are far away from each other and their languages have a very different grammatical rules (from which i notice). therefore, some dramas become more interested than others becoz of its literally translation for expressions like my name is kim sam soon.
since that i've become jelous from other student in the korean/arabic translation department. :D

for translate "oppa," "ajassi," and so on i quite agree with you in write it as it is in source lang coz it's just for fun and it's a way to know other culture. however in other fields like novels, in my opinion, it's better to translate these depending in the target language's culture. in arabic, for example, translator should translate "oppa" depending in the context. if it's blood relative, it'll be translate to "brother" or "cousin". if it's her boyfriend, it'll be "honey" and so on.

translation is a fascinating field but a tiresome one.

thanks for u and other translators for your hard work to provide us an awesome subs

I'm totally agree with you, because my culture resembled Korea also. I Javanese, one of the ethnic groups in Indonesia.For instance, our language knew the language stage as in the case of Korean, we also used the term of address for older people, even younger et cetera person. Well, indeed occasionally had difficulty explaining this matter in English. That's why I prefer to watch the Korean film through the internet, the available translation in the local TV station made me not comfortable.
So, I really appreciated what was done by the team fansubbing, especially S2... big big thanks, and don't be bored helping :)

Hi I would like to ask the drama My Girl, Yoo Rin's fav sentence "you will be blessed" ,how to say it in romanized korean?

hey, question... what does the korean word JUNG mean in the context of love?

Han Kyul from Coffee Prince: Just once, I'll say this just once so listen up. I like you - whether you're a man or an alien...

He likes her? Just like he likes coffee?

I think "Chua e" is closer in meaning to "I want you"

great read...good insights..
it is always better to watch kdrama in its original language and then subbed rather than dubbed in english (or tagalog for my case)..although i cannot understand korean, i get to hear what they're saying and how they're saying it, at least, through this, i imbibe some of korean culture and language, and there's a great chance that there will be lesser conversations in the kdramas that will be lost in dubbing or subbing..

It's certainly reassuring to know that such thoughtful people are working on these subs. That is certainly not meant to debase the great contributions of other subber volunteers that do not have such a fine-tuned sense of language--we need all we can get. But language is a symbolic structure that is intended to convey meaning. And meaning is the point, not the words. This is so often forgotten by translators who try word-for-word translations that make absolutely no sense in the target language. The translation needs to transfer the meaning of the speaker's utterance, as well as its emotional tone as much as that is possible. Literal translations fail at that miserably.

And I like the way that you choose to use Korean terms like "Unni" in places where there is no exact equivalent. The meaning is lost otherwise, and readers are well advised to actually learn something about the culture they are watching if they want to fully appreciate the drama.

Keep up the good work. Even in places where you have uneasy feelings that you have made mistakes or chosen the wrong meaning, the fact that you tried comes through and actually makes the meaning more clear in that way, strangely enough. Thanks very much.

Ya, I know its not related, but i have a difficulty that I hope you guys can help me with.

I'm doing sum research on places in Seoul as I will be going there in a month's time, so I noticed that the names of places in South Korea varies although they seemed to be the same place.
How can one place have two different names?

I was planning to go 'Garden of morning calm', (the film site of 'You are Beautiful') so i will need to go to a bus terminal to transfer to a local bus. But this bus terminal seemed to have two names or I might have mistaken and confuse with a totally different bus terminal??

Does Cheongpyeong bus terminal = Chungpyung bus terminal ??

Please get back to me on this .

Hey please translate the following text into english:
"URI KASARANGO SINKU, URAM MANIDA, DA CHUWA GEYO, FOGUSUPTA"

Please help me out!!