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Rebel: Thief Who Stole the People: Episode 27

by tineybeanie

Now that there’s only one more family member to rescue from behind enemy lines, we know that the impending reunion between our married couple will be heartbreaking (if the first episode was any indication), so it’s time to start bracing ourselves. Unfortunately for our hero, despite the people rallying to his side, they’re still the underdogs in the fight against Yeonsangun’s violence-driven control of the nation.

 
EPISODE 27 RECAP

The people shout as they come to save Gil-dong and the rest of his men from the royal forces, “We’ll come to your rescue this time, General.” With an expression mixed with gratefulness and awe at the miraculous salvation, they begin fighting again with a reinvigorated fervor, and soon the royal army turns back to retreat with their tails tucked between their legs.

When the general comes to report his crushing defeat against the rebel army, Yeonsangun sits in his throne room clearly upset at this new development. His courtiers cower while his general delivers the disappointing news, and when the king hears that it’s Gil-dong leading the rebel army, he becomes infuriated.

After the end of the battle, despite their victory, many have been injured and some have even lost their lives, including the man that Gil-dong once personally encouraged (who later led the rescue efforts that saved the rebel army). Gil-dong and the Hong band stand in front of the graves of the fallen, and he resolves: “I will never forget you.”

Back at the cave, people are being treated for their injuries, including some of the more experienced members of the Hong brotherhood. Eorini sees Yonggae being bandaged up, and tears come to her eyes as she first witnesses the tolls of battle on the closest thing to an uncle-like figure in her life. She reaches out to hold his hand, and despite the pain, he grits his teeth, smiles, and welcomes her back.

Alone, Gil-dong ponders words that Yeonsangun said to him in prison regarding violence and how to control the citizenry. While he’s lost in deep thought, Gil-hyun comes up to him, and when he sees his brother, Gil-dong playfully says that he’s fallen a long way from being a close advisor to the king to the nation’s most wanted traitor.

Gil-hyun replies that it’s just his luck for having such a rascal for a little brother, and then Eorini joins them. She covers Gil-dong’s eyes with her hands, and it’s an instant deja vu moment back to the days when life was simpler at Ikhwari, under Amogae’s protective presence.

It’s been such a long time since this familiar action, and it makes Gil-dong emotional, but he replies as he always does and asks if it’s Ugly Girl (“Motnani” is an affectionate term that connotes ugliness) who’s covering his eyes. Soon, the rest of the original Amogae Avengers show up, and together they all call up to Amogae to thank him for reuniting their family.

At the palace, the king meets with Scholar Song only to tell him not to come into his royal presence for the time being (as he’s still annoyed by the Park Ha-sung/Gil-hyun revelation). He assigns Choongwongoon to be his temporary replacement as the head of the Sugwidan.

After they leave the king, Scholar Song expresses his discontent at Choongwongoon’s uppity behavior against him, but there doesn’t seem to be any remnant of loyalty in that quarter. Choongwongoon just coldly tells the scholar that he seems to be forgetting his place and forgetting the fact that Choongwongoon was born a royal, implying that this role reversal should have been the original relationship dynamic all along.

When Choongwongoon gathers the Sugwidan members in a meeting, he pushes his own agenda to isolate and expel Scholar Song from the organization. To his fellow Sugwidan members, he tells them that Scholar Song is no longer in favor because of his mistake with Park Ha-sung, adding that they need to find Gil-dong in order to regain the king’s favor and stay safe under the bloody tyrant’s reign.

In Hyangjumok, some young students post up flyers that spread ideas protesting the king’s unjust actions. However, they’re caught by soldiers who chase after them. One young man manages to get back home, and his mother reprimands her son, telling him not to engage in any activities that are against the king, no matter how unfair his actions may seem. He quickly makes his excuses to go hide further inside the house, but soon the soldiers barge in and forcefully take him away to the mother’s great distress.

Tracking down the other students, soldiers raid anywhere that seems to be a hiding place. One young woman makes the mistake of glancing to the large jar containing one of the young men who posted the flyers. He’s immediately taken, tied up, and the group of women who hid him are also dragged along. When people try to free them, they’re beaten and even killed by the soldiers in broad daylight on public streets.

Meanwhile, Gil-dong and his crew are still back at their lair discussing how to best go about the situation, which looks dire because of the king’s endless troops and resources. Then, Yonggae explains his own personal story, saying that his one goal in life was not to die like his own father, a poor thief hanged for his crimes.

He says that he enjoyed living the high life of a rich merchant when they were in Ikhwari as well as Hanyang, but he knew that they had turned a blind eye to the citizens, and so he says they have a duty to go to Hyangjumok and rescue them. Yonggae continues by saying that he doesn’t see this rescue as being an optional endeavor—he’s doing this in order to repay a long-time debt. His speech puts the entire situation in a different perspective for Gil-dong an the rest of the Hong brothers.

Finally sparking on an idea, Gil-dong approaches one of the women, whose eyes become wide at the fact that the general is speaking with little ol’ her. He tells her his plan, and although she looks a little starstruck at first, she quickly gets the gist and helps implement it.

His plan is to use the women to smuggle their weapons into Hyangjumok so that they can conquer from the inside out. Hyangjumok’s version of the TSA is not gender-equal since they only give men the full pat-down, which means that the women are able to hide the swords and knives in their skirts.

Eorini, wanting to do her part for the rebel effort, joins the women and pads several weapons in her underskirt, although Uncle Soboori protests. He tries to persuade her from it, thinking it’s too dangerous, and he even tries to get Gil-dong and Gil-hyun to help him. However, they just laugh, having given up, and say that she’ll still do what she wants to because that stubborn side of her, inherited from Amogae, exists in all of them.

In the magistrate’s courtyard, citizens and students alike have been rounded up and beaten. They kneel in front of the soldiers who begin an unfair investigation to find out the “truth.” They ask who’s behind the spread of the rebellious propaganda, and when a woman refuses to name any names, she’s immediately slashed down by the guard behind her.

Seeing her being killed right in front of their eyes, the people rally to stop the soldiers, but without weapons, they’re all ruthlessly cut down. And just as they’re about to lose all hope, Gil-dong strides in with the Hong brothers to the rescue. As Gil-dong makes the king’s soldiers retreat, he tells them to send this message to the king: “Hyangjumok doesn’t need soldiers that kill its citizens.”

Gil-dong and crew fight and defeat the soldiers, but at the end of the takeover, it almost seems like an empty victory because they’re standing in a sea of dead bodies. Although the citizens call for others to come out now that the battle is finished, no one else appears because half are lying dead at their feet.

Later, the bodies are organized in rows, some covered in white shrouds, others still just bloody. The mother who nagged at her son not to go against the king finds her beloved son in the midst of the still corpses and weeps her heart out.

When Yeonsangun hears that his soldiers in Hyangjumok have also been defeated by Gil-dong, he laughs at the absurdity. But it’s definitely not a joking-ha-ha-type laughter; it’s an angry chuckle that promises revenge. When Jeong-hak offers his life in return for his failure to capture Gil-dong, Yeonsangun is very tempted to kill him. But someone calls him, bringing him to his senses and preventing him from doing so. Instead, the king says to Jeong-hak that he’s only alive through the grace of his mother’s initial good deed of telling Yeonsangun about the deposed queen.

Jeong-hak tells Yeonsangun that he will willingly die for him on the battlefield by confronting Gil-dong. The king asks him whether he has an army willing to die for him like Park Ha Sung/Gil-hyun does, but Jeong-hak replies in the negative, giving an alternative answer that pleases the king.

Jeong-hak says that while he may not have an army loyal to himself, he does have an army that’s only loyal to the king. So, he’s dispatched to confront Gil-dong at Hyangjumok, and Mistress Jo tells Jeong-hak not to come back until he’s killed Gil-dong, otherwise he’d be dishonoring her and his late father. An immense force lead by Jeong-hak and Mori then heads to Hyangjumok.

People gather in Hyangjumok to debate their situation: A speaker stands up and asks the crowd whether they think they’re really committing treason by complaining about being forced to pay exorbitant taxes, having their land taken away, and their daughters forced into the king’s harem. Surely, these are reasonable complaints that don’t pass the boundary to treachery. But another man rebuts with the practical argument: The people of Hyangjumok are helpless—they have no way to fight against the relentless influx of royal troops.

The mother who lost her son through this past incursion then rises and tells the people that her biggest regret is letting her son learn to read, because that’s where he got the ideas of becoming an honorable man. When he saw the injustices being perpetrated by the king, she adds, he became motivated to do something about it, and was thus killed for his actions. In a powerful statement, Segul adds on that they aren’t choosing to pick a fight—they’re just fighting in order to not be killed.

Jeong-hak arrives at Hyangjumok with a formidable battalion of soldiers behind him, and he shouts for a parlay before they actually begin battle. Gil-dong and Gil-hyun descend from the gate to face Jeong-hak and Mori. The scene is absolutely delicious in a meta sense, because the four-way meeting is shown like a mirrored image of foils: We see the two scholars, one slave-born and one noble-born with Gil-hyun against Jeong-hak and the two Mighty Children—one choosing the right path and one choosing the wrong one with Gil-dong against Mori.

Despite Jeong-hak wanting to lord over the fact that Gil-dong and Gil-hyun were once his father’s slaves, Gil-hyun just smirks because he knows now that social birth is not an indicator of potential, especially since he (as Park Ha-sung) was able to rise much higher than Jeong-hak when they still worked together for the king. Needless to say, the discussion doesn’t end well, and the battle begins.

Meanwhile, the king is at the palace playing catch-me with his musical troupe girls. Nok-soo and Ga-ryung watch from the side, not participating in the jarringly playful festivities. For the first time, they have a real discussion about Gil-dong, the man both of them love.

From Ga-ryung, Nok-soo learns that Gil-dong did come back for her, and that he pined for her for a long time. However, Ga-ryung won him over because she patiently waited for him. Still perhaps a little insecure about Gil-dong’s love for her, Ga-ryung says some hurtful things to Nok-soo, saying that perhaps she was the main reason that Ga-ryung ended up with Gil-dong. When she’s back alone in her room, Ga-ryung confesses aloud that she’s jealous of Gil-dong’s powerful and passionate past love for Nok-soo.

In Hyangjumok, there’s an air of hopefulness despite all the recent tragedy, and the people gather to help each other for the communal good. Ilchung brings up the need for medical supplies, and everyone pitches in ideas about how to procure them. Because they’re scarce on herbs, they organize groups to go gather them. Because they’re low on food, they decide to share amongst each other.

But the king’s soldiers have destroyed all the roads that lead to Hyangjumok and have spread false rumors about how all the people there are liars and thieves. So unfortunately, the rest of the Joseon people don’t know about their plight and can’t/won’t come to their rescue.

In the palace gardens, Nok-soo and Ga-ryung have another discussion where Nok-soo comments to Ga-ryung that love is a passing fancy, but this just makes Ga-ryung angry. Having witnessed the deepness of Gil-dong’s longing for her, and having painfully experienced the one-sided love of one who loves another, Ga-ryung can’t understand how Nok-soo can be so cavalier about her time with Gil-dong.

The jealousy bug strikes again, and Ga-ryung pointedly retorts that it must be so, because Yeonsangun has stopped visiting Nok-soo’s chambers. This remark tips Nok-soo into a highly dangerous mood, and she lashes out, asking whether Ga-ryung would be equally as impertinent if her life were put on the line. She replies that she stopped being afraid of death when Gil-dong died.

Nok-soo resolves to meet the king again, despite his direct orders not to come near him for the time being. She explains to Wolhamae that the king doesn’t actually want her dead because if he did, he would have executed her already. And while she can withstand insults about her character and her person, she hates being told her choices were wrong, which is essentially what Ga-ryung said by implying that not waiting for Gil-dong was a mistake.

When the king is walking down the hallway, Nok-soo kneels in front of him and begs his forgiveness, confessing her previous relationship with Gil-dong. He grabs her in a stranglehold, but she looks straight into his eyes, promises him that she knows another way to catch the thief, and asks if he’ll trust her when Gil-dong is caught. He looks furious, but the scene cuts to Ga-ryung being taken away, so it looks like Yeonsangun decided to listen to Nok-soo after all.

Ga-ryung is dragged in front of the king, who demands for her to reveal everything. She says that she’ll tell him the absolute truth, but requests that he come nearer to her. Once he’s a few inches from her, she goes toward him as if she is going to whisper in his ear, and he leans in.

However, instead of telling him anything, she bites down on his ear so fiercely that blood is drawn. He stumbles back in shock, and she lets out a crazed laugh about how he is the beast that killed her husband, which causes Yeonsangun to become angry again. In a moment of fury, he wants to chop off her head, but Nok-soo reminds him that they need to use Ga-ryung effectively, and in order to do that, they need to keep her alive.

Nok-soo visits Ga-ryung in prison, and she finally lets Ga-ryung know that Gil-dong is alive. She tells her that she’s fine no matter how the scenario turns out—it’s a win-win situation for her, because if Gil-dong loves Ga-ryung, he’ll lose the battle, and if Gil-dong sacrifices Ga-ryung for the battle, then it’s a validation that Ga-ryung isn’t as important to him as perhaps Nok-soo once was. Ga-ryung is completely dazed by the news that her husband is alive, but once she realizes the implications of that, she calls out futilely to Nok-soo.

However, the meeting took more of a toll on Nok-soo than she let on to Ga-ryung, because her eyes are watery when she comes out. Wolhamae asks why she’s crying, and Nok-soo doesn’t answer, but it’s like she is mourning the last vestiges of her humanity that she’s given up by betraying both Ga-ryung and Gil-dong.

Outside, a soldier keeps repeating for Hyangjumok to surrender, and in order to drown out his cries, the people begin to sing. Soon, everyone joins in, including commoner soldiers from the king’s army. Through song, the people gain courage to move to their assigned tasks, whether it be standing at arms or evacuating the weak and infirm.

An epic battle ensues with arrows, cannons, and spears all thrown in the midst. Gil-dong is at the front and defends the wall by shouting orders to the archers. When a battering ram comes close, jugs of flammable alcohol and fiery arrows are shot down, and the soldiers scream below. But they keep coming closer to scale the wall with ladders while continuing to fight on ground. While there are massive casualties on both sides, at the end of the day, Gil-dong is successful in protecting the wall.

Yeonsangun is disappointed to learn that Hyangjumok has not fallen, and decides that if he wants a job done right, he has to do it himself. He announces that he will be going on a people-hunting expedition to Hyangjumok, and he expects a large retinue of entertainers as well as troops from every province to support him.

Back at Hyangjumok, Jeong-hak blows up at Mori for not being able to open up the gate doors when he’s notified of Yeonsangun’s arrival. The king says he’s brought a present that will make Jeong-hak’s task easier—and to Mori’s surprise, when he peers into the darkened cage, he sees Ga-ryung gagged and cuffed.

Later, she’s tied up in the prisoner’s tent to the central pole, and he goes to free her of her bindings to give her some breathing room. But as soon as she’s taken off the pole, she tries to commit suicide by ramming her body toward a pitchfork and slamming her head against any hard surface she can find. Taken aback, Mori stops her, and between tears, she explains the situation. She asks him to kill her because she needs to die without Gil-dong knowing so that he won’t be faced with an unsolvable dilemma.

Gil-dong walks the ramparts, looking over the hurt men and surveying the scene. But he’s also tired, so he sits down and dozes off in a moment of fatigue, and he dreams of Ga-ryung.

In his dream they’re in a field, and she holds flowers to his nose while gazing up at him lovingly. She tells him: “I’m coming to see you soon, but don’t be surprised at what state you find me in. You have to promise to do as I say.”

Before he can respond properly to her, he wakes up. She’s gone, and it’s Eorini holding flowers in her place. His sister vaguely mentions that she remembers an unni at the palace (referring to Ga-ryung) who had been kind to her. It’s a foreshadowing of what’s to come, because in that moment, Keutsae tells Gil-dong that he needs to come quickly.

When he gets to the central outer gate, Gil-dong sees his wife again: Ga-ryung has been blindfolded and strung up to a post facing the Hyangjumok. She screams to him: “If you stop because of me, I’ll never see you again!”

He shouts her name, and it’s the first real confirmation that she has that he’s alive. It’s a bittersweet moment as she feels simultaneous joy at finding him again and despair at their current situation. They shout and cry in deep longing and sorrow for each other while Yeonsangun watches with great relish at the scene unfolding, eagerly anticipating his enemy’s anguish.

 
COMMENTS

From the beginning, we knew that it would come to this, but I didn’t really think the writers would carry it through without providing at least a small escape route. I care for Ga-ryung and Nok-soo’s arc so much more than this Yeonsangun—Gil-dong business, which has been dragging out forever. However, I did think that the whole jealousy issue that occurred in their two conversations together wasn’t done with the subtle touch that their previous scenes together had displayed. For a long time, I thought that Nok-soo’s main motivation was surviving the long game, but after this episode, I’m starting to be confused as to what her real reasons for her actions are.

Logically, her offering Ga-ryung to Yeonsangun as bait for Gil-dong doesn’t make sense because it seems like she still holds Gil-dong in affection, and this could get him killed. Did that remaining affection die when Ga-ryung announced that he had married her? Perhaps jealousy propelled her as well, but from the way she phrased it to Wolhamae, it seemed more like she can’t stand the idea that she could be wrong, and that’s making her commit these atrocities. As for Ga-ryung, she has grown from one of the side-fringe characters to one of the main emotional centers of the drama, so I really don’t want her to die. (I’m crossing my fingers that maybe Mori will come to the rescue and they’ll ride off into the sunset together after Gil-dong dies in mortal combat with Yeonsangun.)

Does anyone feel like they were somehow unknowingly and gradually transitioned from a must-watch sageuk to a slightly less captivating but still interesting one? Perhaps it’s the length of the run time, but Rebel feels like it was initially an innovative drama with powerful characters that somehow got smushed together with a spinoff version with most of the same characters but not the same level of awesomeness in the latter half.

Speaking of which, most of the time Amogae’s storyline played out, his primary motivator was the manifestation of Gil-dong’s supernatural power. Even up to the point that Gil-dong and Eorini are captured and he loses his memory, Gil-dong displayed immense potential for physical destruction. However, in this episode, his Mighty Child strength is written off like it’s only slightly better than a normal strongman. What happened to my green-eyed Gil-dong hulk-beast? At the beginning, they kind of explored themes of identity when Gil-dong didn’t want to use his powers and suppressed them unconsciously because he didn’t want to be viewed as a beast. Those topics were highly interesting to me because it brings up questions about individuality and acceptance, which is highly applicable to even today’s society. But nope, they were never touched upon again after Gil-dong’s transformation into the “Great Elder.” Plus, are we never going to figure out what happened to the tiger in the forest? We only have three episodes left, and I’m still waiting.

All in all, it may be that the drama bit off more than it could chew. It tried to incorporate all these supernatural themes while also having a huge secondary cast with lots of screen time, which decreased the amount of time spent developing the main characters’ own stories. So what we’ve ended up with is a couple characters with complex motivations, and very many that we’re familiar with and feel are acquaintances, but to whom we have no vested interest in learning more about. But I must admit most of my near-tears moments have happened while watching the citizenry rise up and use their individually meager but collectively great might to work together with our hero to accomplish a greater goal. For instance, that scene where one woman began singing, and everyone from the Hong brothers to the shamaness to the youngest children began chiming along in a haunting melody—that was pure gold.

 
RELATED POSTS

Tags: Chae Soo-bin, Episode 27, Honey Lee, Kim Ji-suk, Rebel: Thief Who Stole the People, Yoon Kyun-sang

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GUYYSSS... the preview is out! But now I'm super scared for you know who.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTtCaVGgkXv/

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Oh no.. *holding my breath until Monday comes*

(btw, could someone please translate it?)

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Gil-hyun: Even if you're a Mighty Child, you can't fight all of them with your strength alone.
Ga-ryung: If you give up because of me, I'll hate you forever.
Gil-dong: The nation's army is no longer protecting the people. They are no longer the people's army and (Yi Yung is no longer) the people's king.
Gil-hyun: If you keep this up, you will die.
Choongwongun: Hong Gil-dong is (something...I can't really hear what's he's shouting and I don't really care anyway because the sight of him makes me angry lol but you can see the army of white-clad sugwidan members aiming their arrows at Gil-dong. Uh-oh.)
Gil-dong: There is no need to be scared because we fight for our lives, while they fight for riches.

(May have some mistakes but guyssss I'm so scared for next week!)

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Thanks @enkeys! At least GilHyun confirmed the answer to why GilDong didn't just use his Mighty Child power to fight off the royal soldiers ?
I'm so scared for next week as well. For Ga Ryung and for Gil Hyun as well ?

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Evidence Ga-ryung will live (I felt this was pertinent lol)

Her stories seem to have a prophetic bent to them. Goo-chun and Chae-hwa's love story basically reflects her future and current situation with Gil-dong. He can't confess to her and could only stay by her side until she realized his feelings for her. They have two daughters but Gil-ryung haven't had kids yet...so...she has to survive for them to do that.

Potential conception dreams and visions...they haven't had kids yet...so...again, she has to survive.

She's the writer of the Hong Gil-dong story and writes Gil-dong's story from a perspective which she can't have known based on where she was at the time of narration. Therefore, both must survive for Gil-dong to tell her and for her to write it down.

Phoenix imagery about being immortal.

Guanyin and other Buddhist/taoist goddess references about overcoming death and resurrection.

She's the true queen along with Gil-dong, the true king. Would prefer for them to have victory over the pretenders, Nok-soo and Yeonsangun. Because the people can still win without either Gil-dong or Ga-ryung, but there will be no symbolic figurehead.

There are many wildcards around that can pull a caper to save her like Mori, Ok-ran, Eorini etc.

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Forgot to add the foreshadowing of Gil-dong's aim and being able to miss her vital organs and merely make it look like he's killed her and potentially be able to rush her 'body' back into the fortress for medical attention....a resurrection.

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@cloveredlioness I need to keep reminding myself of all these points. Argh, it's been a while since I've been really anticipating and dreading the next episode of a show.

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@cloveredlioness - you have no idea how much I'm hoping you and liina's evidence in favour of Ga-ryung's survival is on the right track and that she doesn't end up dead at the start of the next episode. Or in any other episode.

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One more reason why Ga-ryung should live...the parallel story of Ga-ryung's pining and overt feelings for Gil-dong and his coldness paired with later on Gil-dong's pining and overt feelings for Ga-ryung and Ga-ryung's coldness (because she thinks he's dead, but still). The point is...that the first time, it's resolved with their marriage. The second time...we don't have a resolution yet, but the point is, we have to have Ga-ryung and Gil-dong come to a resolution about their feelings for each other and know that their feelings for each other are equal.

Nok-soo just had Ga-ryung held hostage to prove a point, that Gil-dong will let her die because he doesn't love her. So ultimately, Gil-dong has to prove that he does...and Ga-ryung also has to prove that she loves him enough to stop him from having to choose between killing her or helping others. She has to probe that she believes his word. They need to resolve their love...and the only way to do that fully is for Ga-ryung to survive and not to make the shitty choice of having to kill her. Basically, he has to pick a third option and say to Yeonsangun and Nok-soo...I'm not going to play your game, fuck you.

The easiest way to come to a resolution for this...is probably a child.

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@cloveredlioness - I like those parallels! And there's also a third, slightly different one - child Eorini as a new palace maid and even slightly older Geoin is absolutely fascinated by Nok-soo while being hostile to Ga-ryung at first because she thinks they're at odds, but soon enough (like Gil-dong), it's Ga-ryung she thinks of with fondness despite their initial loggerheads.

I really, really hope Ga-ryung lives because if Gil-dong is going to do what that flash-forward says he does and shoot her in (what looks like) the heart and she dies, it's going to be an absolutely terrible way to end her story with the better part of 3 episodes to go. But I don't know if she'll survive a 16th-century arrow wound since she's not Gil-dong, this is making me legit nervous.

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Thanks for the translation enkeys :)

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Omg...It makes me laugh that the preview is pretty much exactly what you expect and literally gives you no spoilers of what's going to actually happen. Ga-ryung tied to a stake...because that's where we got last episode. People fighting...because they did so last episode and it's expected because it's a continuation of the plot. I think the only thing that's somewhat interesting/intriguing from the preview is the Gil-dong/Mori faceoff but even that is almost expected.

I think it'd help if I knew what people were saying lol. I know they're not going to spoil whether or not Ga-ryung lives...but help a girl out lol.

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I can't wait to see what caused Mori to shed his tears. Ga-ryung? Gil-dong defeating him? Arghhh is it Monday yet?

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Tears for the enemy, I think.
It's easy in a war to forget that the enemy are people too. At the moment Mori is the only one who seems to realise that they are just fighting people vs people. The rest is like The Enemy Army vs The Traitors. I don't even know if the army soldiers are really singing the Ikhwari Song of the People or if we just see it how Mori "sees" it. The problem is, at the moment - ep 27 - and before he doesn't seem to feel empathy like other people do.

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yeah, there was a point early on when it really felt like the visions of Gil-dong's supernatural strength when it first broke out, were more about how they were perceived than what they actually were - iirc there's even the odd bit of clear embellishment from the public (exaggerating the numbers he faced etc).

I'm really, really hoping whatever made Mo-ri cry isn't Ga-ryung's death.

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I'm so scared that Mori's tears are going to be towards Gil-dong like 'I loved her too and I can't believe you killed her' kind of way. Either that or Gil-dong makes a point to Mori that stirs him, like how can he work for someone who values him so little, who throws the people away like nothing, who treats him like nothing. And Mori has a choice, he can either die as nothing, doing nothing or he can join Gil-dong and die for something...

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Gil-dong(/Gil-hyun) really opened the doors of fate when he told Mori(/Soo-hak) that they shouldn't fight one on one in front of the castle gate, because both sides would only end up full of arrows...

Arrows are not only dangerous for Ga-ryung at the moment.

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I honestly think that Mori is neiher a Korean nor a Sino-Korean Name, but is meant to be the Latin word mori, which means "to die". Therefore the Arena Fight, that didn't fit in any other context. I had thought about that back then but at that point it seemed to far fetched and more like a coincident. Now it fits more and more.

Mori was the child that by the parents was sent out to die. First the biological dad, then the adopted dad (Heo Tae-hak), then "I really don't like him" prince, and in the Trailer again (probably from the King).

The two most known phrases it is connected to are:

- "Ave Caesar morIturi te salutant" - Ave, Cäsar, the ones who are about to die greet you. This is connected to prisoners who were made to fight each other for the benefit of entertainment of emperor Claudius and who used it to mock the emperor.

- "Memento Mori" which means "remember one has to die", but is more connected with Remember the Dead. That would be fitting if Mori is connected to Hyeonmu (black warrior - black turtlesnake - one of the four guardian gods of the King). But that would probably be a spoiler. Hyeonmu's story would also connect to the assassin from the palace in the Hong Gil-dong tale.

And ryung from Ga-ryung would probably be the "(immortal) soul" ryung.

I really like the phrase Gil-dong says in the Trailer. (It's also in the novel). Something like "Our nation's King is not a King for the people. Therefore from now on for the people this nations King is not the King". The author of the novel had some guts!

I really fear for Gil-hyun and the robbers. I actually fear for everybody except Gil-dong and Ga-ryung. I think they will die of old age in the end. There are so many deaths and partings connected to the isle of Je. :(

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NOOOOOOOOO!!! Hongvengers should Hongvenge as they are and not diiiiieeee lol. Somehow Hongvengers Huddle/Heap/Hoard Together is not as good as Avengers Assemble...lol. But the Avengers all lived...

That's awesome bringing out the Latin. It definitely makes sense since Mori is such a non-Korean sounding name. I think you're right about it not being Korean or Sino-Korean. Like I've said before, to me, it sounds Japanese. Mori 森　is actually a very common surname in Japan which means forest.

I really DO hope Ga-ryung is immortal...I mean, we've seen phoenix imagery and all sorts of other hints that she could be...but they all mean she may have to die first...Only, I don't want her to be dead dead. I want her to be alive and not just be alive in spirit or something like that.

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It would be the ryung 령 from 靈. - But I don't know if it is really meant. I wrote it only down for our guessing games. :)

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Lol...well, it is good. It means...(From my favourite English-Chinese dictionary, mandarintools since they give you Mandarin and Cantonese pronunciation lol) spirit, soul; spiritual world.

From Google Translate: spirit, bier, elf, intelligence, alert, departed soul, elfin, clever, effective, efficacious, sharp, alert and quick with spirit being the most popular meaning...

From my favourite Japanese dictionary (Jisho.org), it means spirit or soul but is also part of the word 靈氣, or reiki which means healing method...Rikaichan also says 'soul or spirit'

Korean Google translate also suggests spirit.

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So it's a a Japanese name, but a symbol for the Japanese army --- the enemy army --- the army of the King (and Prince Fake Confucius disciple); since it is not made from one tree but three trees (meaning lots of trees - many soldiers) and the mok character is the symbol for the House of Yi?

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OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!! But yes, Mori is a combo of three tree radicals. So it would make sense from that standpoint why he'd be on the opposite side of Gil-dong...since the Mok character was the secret behind Song Sabu and Yi Yung as head of the Suwigdan.

It's also interesting because Mori seems like kind of a red-shirt...in that he's such an expendable character and so unformed. Like three parts have just been stuck onto him from three different masters...First Heo Tae Hak, then Pedo Prince and finally, the king...

This also makes me think of dividing up the parts and multiplying...kinda like how Gil-dong is able to in the novels create clones of himself...Well, from 森, take off a 木, and you get 林 (can mean forest, grove or woods), take off another 木 and you get 木 (wood).

Now in Japanese, the most common word for mori is 森 (forest), but it also means 守り to protect, 銛　lance/harpoon, 盛り a serving/helping of food, or leak 漏り. So I guess the question is will Mori 森 protect 守り Ga-ryung with a lance/harpoon 銛 before tears leak 漏り from everyone's faces and instead share a serving 盛り of food with the Hongvengers? ;-)

It's kinda fun to goryeo that lol.

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Oh, in six flying dragons there was also a scene between Jeong Do-jeon and Lee Seong-gye about Hanja and protecting with a spear. And when you add... and... you get nation. and protecting the nation with a spear and something with family and then you get wang/king...
I only forgot the rest of it. Must have been episode 18 or 19 or 20 (Lee Seong-gye remembers back on it in episode 20, but not the full conversation)

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On a funny sidenote, but Gil-dong burns Jeong-hak for being a coward, Mori's horse nods its head and neighs. I wonder if Mori's horse basically airs out Mori's real feelings lol...because he acted like he was uncomfortable with his association with Jeong-hak during that scene...

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oh, good catch! I was too busy trying not to be sent into a swoon by that little smirk of Gil-hyun's, but the horse bit is even better in hindsight!

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Since the writer seems to have connected the happenings on the isle of Je (the realm of Gil-dong's wife, realm of death) with the happenings on the isle of Yul (Gil-dong's realm, realm of life), that would make Hwangjumok the "City of Life and Death"

That would connect Kwangju to the Nanjing massacre.
From the trailer, it looks like it will feature a lot from story of the movie "City of Life and Death" (from the source stories that were featured in "City of Life and Death" - I don't know how biographical the stories of the characters of the movie were).
That would reconnect to Yeonsan's abuse of women and also to the comfort women. Also in a larger sense to abuse/unequality of women in general (since City of Life and Death also features a connection to Princess Pali who - because she was a woman - was thrown out of the window while one parent could only watch).

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In case that was a little bit confusing: I meant the trailer to Episode 28 seems to feature some connections to the Chinese movie.

By the way: The conversation between Jeong-hak and Mori, when Mori says they should not estimate the opponent, because they are peasants and Jeong-hak says something like: "they are just some low peasants" is from the novel. It's what the General of the army of Yuldo says to the King of Yuldo (they are talking about thieves not peasants though). But the King of Yuldo doesn't listen. (Jeong-hak never listens to Mori too).

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Jeong-hak is going to rue the day he didn't listen to Mori. I just hope Mori defects before then. That's interesting to bring up the Nanjing massacre and the perspective of violence against women since Ga-ryung is literally tied to a stake and in mortal peril. Plus, it's a link to the way Yeonsangun has used his gisaengs as basically a harem to abduct girls from all over the country against their will and consent.

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I really like that the writer is drawing that connection. I was so confused, when I stumbled about that "fight against the other-child" interpretation of that part of the book.
I'm half part German, I grew up with the Tales of the Brother's Grimm in a time when it was all about the psychological/sexual interpretations of that fairy tales. Naturally I connected the Euldongs, the monsters in the shape of humans that wanted to wed the girls, to the wolf in Red Riding Hood. So that had always been a story about human traffickers to me. Especially because of the parents that are willing to pay money for the rescue of their daughter - of whom now nobody knows if she would still be a virgin or not -, but wouldn't take the daughter in and just marry her of to the next best guy.
The other girls parents in some versions didn't even look for them. And they didn't want to look for their family either. They wanted to be taken in by Gil-dong as well.
I'm glad that the writer isn't just going to say: "yeah and the half blood noble son ended up with concubines too -just like the King"
No - he ended up with concubines that he let go and even helped them to build a new life when they wanted to build their own families!

But I do think, the "Fight against oneself" has a point too, because in the novel, when Gil-dong hears about the girls, he feels really sad for the girls, but he isn't going to do something about it and just goes on with his own business. He then stumbles about the Euldong lair accidentally. So he does have to get rid of the side that puts own interests over the welfare of others. I'm glad that drama writer is probably going to use that too.

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Later, when I had learned a little bit more about Korea, since that all took place on an island, I had connected the Euldong's with the Waegu ("Japanese" Bandits), the pirates that raided the Korean coasts and had remerged starting from the middle of the 16th century.

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And now back to normal Random Thoughts:

1. The reason why Yeonsangun is having a conniption over there being a separate army is because he’s the only one who should have an army. The army serves the nation and is legitimized by the king being under control of it. The army also legitimizes the king and is a symbol of his power. By Gil-dong having a rebel army, it looks poorly on him because it erodes his power and legitimacy as king.

2. How cute is Eorini with Yong-gae? Awwww.

3. Yeonsangun isn’t Confucian, he’s a Legalist. Legalism preceded Confucianism in Chinese history (in the court anyway). That flashback just totally made me remember this fact lol. Anyway, so legalism sees human nature as bad/evil and violence/threat of violence as the answer to subject the masses…exactly what he tells Gil-dong. It also relies on a strict adherence to laws/rules. In contrast, Confucianism is concerned with the goodness of mankind and having consideration and benevolence towards others. In fact, I would say that all of the significant yangban of this series are legalists parading as Confucians. They pretty much only extol the li beliefs of Confucianism which is all about having the right behaviour, propriety and ceremony and disregard all the humanistic beliefs of having compassion for your fellow man and integrity. Both legalism and Confucianism came about the Zhou Dynasty during/just before the Warring States Period, a time of great turmoil in China. Legalism is often associated with the absolute power wielded by the Qin emperor and it was later sort of de-emphasized by the time you get to the Han Dynasty where they adopted more Confucian beliefs…So you could say that Confucianism won out over the legalists.

4. It’s so interesting to see Song Sabu get the boot in favour of Pedo Prince. Pedo Prince just doesn’t seem like he has the mental acuity for the job…but he’s good at making himself look super Confucian after his training from Song Sabu. I also loved how Pedo Prince reminded Song Sabu that he’s royalty and that Song Sabu had been maybe enjoying more power and influence than he should as merely a nobleman. He’s gotten too big for his britches…I don’t think Song Sabu will stay out of play for long though. I’m also wondering what the Suwigdan are going to get up to now as well.

5. Totally thought that scholar’s mom was going to be another Madame Jo…so glad she wasn’t. On another note, Moo-hyul’s family and grandma are the best! I can’t believe her and Madame Jo are the same woman…because I can’t imagine Madame Jo jumping up and down and being excited to have gotten accepted into a yangban’s household. Her and Moo-hyul are adorbs!

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Re: #1, I think what really shocks Choongwongoon is not just that, but that there are enough of them to be called an army at all - that's a word suggesting a level of organisation and, for lack of a better word, official status - that no rebel should have. And that's without even getting into the numbers, i.e that there are enough soldiers and unofficial fighters in the ranks to be called an army (even though they are comprised of the soldiers Gil-hyun poached).

re: 2 - seriously, SO CUTE. I like that she's slowly fitting back into the Hong clan, helped along by their massive affection for her (also she can't marry Eop-san since he's a Hong of their clan and legally her brother/family now - Ga-ryung refused to take the clan name because taking it would mean she couldn't marry Gil-dong, and she wasn't having that).

#3 - Yeonsangun has always wanted to chuck the Confucian texts/ideals as a guideline for running the kingdom, but what he really wanted, both then and now, was to do exactly as he wishes. The ideals or lack thereof are secondary, which is probably why he let Song Sabu go off on the fanatic trail and tolerated his presence even though he was a Confucian fundamentalist - Yeonsangun isn't strictly of one ideology or another, he's actually amoral (he'd be fine as long as Confucius didn't get in the way of what he wanted) and everything is secondary to his whims. As long as he gets to indulge those, all is fine and dandy.

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#1 - ooops, I meant what shocks YEONSANGUN. Time to take a nap now!

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#4 - re: villains in Rebel, I've really, REALLY come to appreciate that we get a clear picture of who they are and what influences they're operating under, whether it's Jeong-hak and Madam Jo, Yeonsangun and Nok-soo, Song Sabu or even Mo-ri (who isn't even really a villain, more a tragic antihero at this stage). I really appreciate that in almost every single case, we get to see what makes them tick, and that their actions are a result of temperament and experience (which makes it really sad in cases like Nok-soo, Jeong-hak, Mo-ri and even Yeonsangun, to me, when one of those things being different could have changed so much - Jeong-hak's a classist a-hole, but it's hard not to feel regret thinking of the boy who sincerely congratulated his friend on passing their exam, and Nok-soo is now truly the monster she said she was, but it's hard not to see what it costs her to be that way even as she treats it as a purpose). No one's evil for the sake of being evil, and I like that.

The lone exception to that tendency, i.e. the only villain who is exactly as villainous as it says on the tin and nothing else, is Paedo Prince. Which is actually very fitting, because he's basically a bloated case of royal entitlement on legs. No more, no less.

#5 - totally! And watching her go from body to body looking for her son put me oddly in mind of similar scenes in my own country (in the 70s and even after, it wasn't unknown for college students with political views to be picked up and tortured/killed for being alleged extreme communists or in conflict with the law in some way - and this scene with the bodies was how some of it played out).

Also if my heart recovers from this drama, I should probably get to watching SFD.

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More Random Thoughts:

6. Yong-gae has such unexpected depths! I LOVE that he brought up how the way they were gangsters before lined their pockets at the expense of the common people and that now, this guy who had abandoned the others, is the one to be like ‘no, I’m going to repay me debt’ and fight for the people. Doing those few good deeds for people who asked is not the same as helping everyone. Same goes for Segul who points out that they are not rebellious…They merely want to survive. And I think it’s important that it comes from him since he was adopted by a nobleman.

7. It also occurred to me that the hairpin Gil-dong inadvertently gifted to Nok-soo was from this period. So it’s sort of a tainted gift. One given from a place of self-serving and at the expense of others. And we’ve never seen Gil-dong directly gift anything to Ga-ryung aside from the shabby wedding, but that was given to her with his full heart.

8. It’s nice to see Minister Eom get into the action and be able to do something lol. He even got a sword!

9. YKS finally gets a good looking fake beard. Seriously, I have hated every single piece of fake facial hair they have glued to his face except this one…probably because it looks like it actually fits his face and elongates it instead of making it look puffy and weird.

10. It's interesting to me the way that the palace has blockaded and isolated Hyangjumok as well as spread rumours about what is going on there and its people. It degrades the people there as mere rebels who behave terribly to justify their cruel actions while the people freely decide to share their provisions and no one steals. It's certainly good PR for the palace. Now can you imagine if the so-called hero of the people killed Ga-ryung? You can bet the palace would turn that around on Gil-dong and use it against him. Your hero killed his wife in cold blood. You think he actually cares about you? I also found it cool in the last episode how Gil-dong had become the subject of songs of the people and children. He's become an icon and a figure that the king isn't.

11. I love how scandalized everyone was when the king asked what kind of relationship Ga-ryung and Gil-dong have. Scandalized and shocked lol. Even Wolhamae. It cracks me up.

12. Jeong-hak chronically underestimates the skills of commoners. The villagers are not formally trained…therefore it should be easy…but he underestimates their ability to learn from Gil-dong and also their will to defend themselves from a tyrant. I can't wait until he goes down.

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#6 Yes, I didn't expect that either. Come to think of it, Yeonggae just showed up one day with Soobori and I just accepted him as Soboori's right hand since then. I'm glad this episode actually takes the time to tell his story.

#7 He did give her everything she wanted back in Hanyang, except the only thing that she ever really wanted was to be his wife ☺️

#8 I didn't know Magistrate Eom can fight! ? I loved the role reversal between him and Soboori when they're in disguise ?

#9 Amen. That beard they put him in when they were going to trash YiYung's party was an abomination.
#10 Another reason why I was reminded of Gwanju Uprising. Chun Dong Hwan, the army general who was responsible for the Gwangju massacre and later took office as the president of SK used the rumors of NK infiltration into SK in order to expand the martial law throughout the country. He was revered as a national hero for 16 years while the protesters were portrayed as communist rebels. Now one thing that I was wondering about is if GilDong is going to play the role of Kim Dae-jung here, who was incriminated by the government at that time to be the "mastermind" behind the rebellion, but later on would become the president of SK and nobel peace prize winner.

#11 LOL. Everyone else were totally shooked!

#12 That always seems to be a running theme with him, isn’t it? He also underestimate how smart and skilled Gil Hyun and Mori are, and now since he views these people/commoners to be below him, he also underestimate how strong they can be.

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8. It's so funny seeing Magistrate Eom pretend to be a slave.

10. Hopefully, that means that Gil-dong will survive...since he has to do that in order to have that kind of position...except I think he'd retire to the country instead lol.

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#10 I'm happy I'm not the only one who is identifying presidents in the drama. I thought of Minister Roh as President Roh Moo-hyun, because of his thoughts on opposition. They mirror President Roh's political ideas. He is also the president who suffered from being too weak to a strong opposition, but he was a strong opposition himself. Back then, his death was regarded as the death of opposition.

I think the Mighty Children are more and more becoming Eight symbols of one idea.
I think all the Mighty Children together + Mighty Child Mom + Mighty Child Dad will become a symbol for the idea of a true democracy (The House of Eight of Democracy). The initial idea: Freedom (Amogae); the Queen and King: freedom of the individuum (Ga-ryung) and freedom of society (Gil-dong), the freedom of body and mind. They will turn into eight: free Election, Legislative (Gil-hyun), Judicative (Gil-dong), Executive; free Religion (shaman), School System (Eorini), Health System (Ga-ryung) and true/free Media.
(The Family of Eight; Mom, Dad, three sons, three daughters is the essence of the "Book of Changes"; one of the classic books for both taoism - metaphysical/human individuum affairs and confucianism - state/society affairs; it follows a one becomes two becomes eight idea. It's also highly connected to the Tale of Hong Gil-dong).
It presents a state that allows his children to grow up "mens sans in corpore sano" (healthy mind in healthy body) and a state that has a healthy mind and healthy body itself.

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re: former President Roh Moo-hyun, I love all these parallels to contemporary Korean politics in this drama. It kind of blows my mind.

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@cloveredlioness
that were also my thoughts, when I linked shaman with earth and Eunuch Kim with heaven. Because there are a lot of things linked with the House of Eight (for example The eight taoist Immortals) in Taoism. Like sky, earth..

geon 건 (乾) - three unbroken lines - father
father in the sky, strong father
(Immortals: Han Xiangzi)

gon 곤 (坤) - three broken lines - mother
mother of the earth, yielding mother
(Immortals: Lan Caihe))

jin 진 (震) - two broken, one unbroken line - 1. son
son of thunder, inciting son
(Immortals: Cao Guojiu)

gam 감 (坎) - broken, unbroken, broken line - 2. son
son of water, dangerous son
(Immortals: Li Tieguai)

gan 간 (艮) - unbroken, 2 broken lines - 3. son
son of the mountain, still-standing son
(Immortals: Zhang Guolao)

son 손 (巽) - two unbroken, one broken line - 1. daughter
daughter of wind and wood, penetrating daughter
(Immortals: He Xian'gu)

i 이 (離) - unbroken, broken, unbroken line - 2. daughter
daughter of fire, radiant daughter
(Immortals: Lü Dongbin)

tae 태 (兌) - broken, 2 unbroken lines - 3. daughter
daughter of the lake, joyous daughter
(Immortals: Zhongli Quan)

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#6 - I really love how all the Hongvengers actually stand as their own personalities, even though they're really background characters - and I like that it was Yonggae and Se-gul who stood up for the rebellion this time around, since they know what it's like to be scared and leave - the stakes are high, but with time they've gained perspective and I love that they get to say that.

#6 - for a drama tradition where gifts often figure heavily in the narrative, I too found it interesting that Gil-dong hasn't given any gifts of the small and portable kind to Ga-ryung (though he gave her her really nice rooms in the Hanyang house, and she stole back Amogae's prayer beads from Heotahak for him, and then of course there was the wedding) or to Nok-soo directly (the hairpin was to ease his way with the King, he didn't know just who it was going to) - the only person he ever gave that kind of gift to was Eorini with her shoes.

#8 - Magistrate Eom cracked me up when he was playing Soboori's servant and going 'please don't touch my master', lol. He really got into it!

#9 - I actually didn't recognise YKS in the fake beard at first, it really does change his face this time! Which means it did its job. That or I was distracted by Gil-hyun lol.

#10 - We shouldn't be surprised it was a smear campaign, i.e. one of the oldest tactics in the book against political opponents or any unruly citizenry - I've seen enough of protesters in the present day being accused of violence or bad behaviour as an attempt to discredit them, and I suppose with no way of getting word out, the residents of Hyangjumok are stuck being slandered as traitors.

#11 - I loved it! The reaction to the name Hong Gil-dong was everything, and doubly so from Wolhamae since she was well aware that Ga-ryung knew Gil-dong. Like it didn't even occur to her that THAT was the husband Ga-ryung wanted to avenge.

#12 - Jeong-hak has a habit of ignoring the intelligence of people he thinks (has been taught) are beneath him for whatever reason - sure, Gil-hyun pulled the rug out from under him by assuming a yangban identity first, but he's also ignored advice from Mo-ri because he's lower-class, his mother because she's a woman (though she's awful, she probably has more insight into the Hong family than anyone else on the outside) and now the villagers aren't the pushovers he thinks they should be. Plus he sucks at his job.

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Still More Random Thoughts:

13. When Nok-soo mentions that she finds the smell of blood revolting and the king agrees, it denotes their lack of willingness to face the consequences of their actions. The spilling of blood is inevitable for the choices they've made, but they can't stomach it. It also shows that they're two-faced and have a lot of double-talk. They don't say or do what they mean. They're cowards who take the easy road instead of the more difficult road of integrity.

14. The scene of Ga-ryung at the stake is made WORSE by Gil-dong being able to see Ga-ryung perfectly as a mighty child power. T_T

15. I wanted to PUNCH Yeonsangun in the face when he started pouring the tea. It’s like Joseon eating popcorn realness.

16. Those scenes where the soldiers just start beating up people really remind me of modern day police brutality. People are just living their lives and being lawful, but authority figures abuse their power and just beat people for literally no reason.

17. I love that Gil-dong also helps with the healing and I also love his clever plan of getting women to sneak their weapons into Hyangjumok. And that Soboori of all people tries to stop her...but knows it's futile. I also LOVE how Eorini assists and her brothers are like 'there's no stopping Eorini. She's a horror who never listens to us! She takes after dad!' They're so cute! I'm pretty sure they all take after dad. I'm not sure they have many mom traits besides maybe their compassion for and sensitivity to others. I think Gil-hyun takes after mom the most.

18. I liked seeing the regular people stand up for each other and try to save each other once that woman got slashed and killed. Even without Gil-dong there, people care about each other and want to help and save each other.

19. I liked how Gil-dong announced that they were the soldiers of the people of Joseon. He really is de-legitimizing the king with that statement. I also loved to see him fight with a sword. I'm guessing Moo-hyul training helped YKS because I think he looks better with a sword than a staff. I find it interesting that this is probably the third weapon we've seen associated with Gil-dong, a bow, a staff and a sword. I think his primary weapon is probably the bow, but it's more of a long-range than a short-range weapon...so he's also gotta have a few others.

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#17 I love that plan as well! Mostly because the women played a major role here. I already loved it when they were able to help by throwing the alcohol into the battlefield in last episode, but now the men basically wouldn't be able to do anything without them ?. So yeay to the double standards of Joseon's TSA!
They're indeed their father's children and Gil Hyun is definitely the mom of the three! Reminds me of the time when he was taking care of both of them while Amogae was in prison after being accused of killing Lord Jo. I will always remember that image of little Gil Hyun carrying baby Eorini on his back everywhere. I can't believe that was over than 23 episodes ago!
#18 That was a very gut-wrenching scene, and the actings from the extras were good as well. Honestly, I couldn't spot acting hole in this show!
#19 He got into his Musa Moo Hyul pose in some of those fighting scene that I half-expected his rock-guitar theme to start blaring ?

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#19. Right? When is he gonna start announcing himself as Musa Moo-hyul and start derping? lol.

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Lol I guess the character Moo-hyul really is becoming synonymous with him after all. Just this morning Chae Soo-bin uploaded a video in her VApp channel. She was having a cuppa with Kyun-sang and everybody commenting was like "Moo-hyul! Moo-hyul" so Kyun-sang was like "Yes, you guys are watching Moo-hyul's broadcast" until she got pissed (ok, I exaggerate) and then he had to take it back "Alright, no, it's Gil-dong's broadcast" lol They look so friendly off camera and I probably shouldn't watch more of their off camera interactions cuz soon it's going to interfere with my drama watching enjoyment.

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awwww that sounds so cute! I'm not surprised they're on good terms off-camera, they've known each other since before either of them was famous (Uniqnote Girlfriend MV).

Also, I really want a reunion of these two in another drama - a modern one this time, and as good as this - someday.

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Link, please?

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@cloveredlioness Strange. Can't reply you again. Here's the link though. Enjoy :) http://www.vlive.tv/video/29503

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Yeah - I watched that last night (morning SK time)! They are super adorable, calling each other Gil Dong and Ga Ryung and at some point, I think YKS finally baptized the "Gil-Ryung" ship. lol. CSB's puppy is super cute as well.
One thing that got me terrified was that I only saw one script on that table. Either they're sharing a script, or...
I think their off camera interactions actually enhanced my drama viewing? Idk, made me ship them harder ?
Anyway @cloveredlioness, here's the link http://www.vlive.tv/video/29503

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I saw some of their screenshot pictures on instagram and they looked sooo good together. Also, Yoon Kyun Sang is cute and HE KNOWS IT

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@latteholic only one script?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

/sobbing

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@keiru: Also, Yoon Kyun Sang is cute and HE KNOWS IT

LOL! YES. He totally knows it and he's flaunting it ? But, he really is an adorable giant baby.

@pogo1: I KNOW! That got me so scared. I was trying to look at what CSB had on the side of her table and I only saw a novel ?

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@latteholic @pogo wait, what's wrong with only one script? I didn't get it (sorry) and now I'm curious..

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@keiru - only one script = YKS's script, most likely. Since he is the title character.

Which MIGHT mean the reason CSB doesn't have a script is that Ga-ryung dies, so she wouldn't be needing one T_T

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@pogo1
Ouch.. T.T
Now it feels like Chae Soo Bin took her video with Yoon Kyun Sang on purpose. It's like :
SB : "Kyun Sang Oppa, let's give the viewers our cute happy video to soothe Gil Ryung shippers' heart for next week episode, so when they get sad, they can just watch our video"

KS : "Sure, I'll give them my cutest look"

And then that moment when YKS helped CSB to fix her hair from her face *swoooon~*

(I need to stop now before I become a delusional fangirl >< but seriously they are so cute !)

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@keiru - I also squeed at that part! ? I can't help but accept the fact that I am totally and absolutely drowning in the delulu ocean. Those BTS clips have ruined my life, but it's kinda fun here at the bottom of the ocean, so idk.

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Or they could be trolling is all with YKS' script and CSB's lack of script... because CSB holding a script is a clear indication she may live...

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@cloveredlioness - lol they really are trolling us now, I swear this production is enjoying our pain!

And even if she lives in the coming episode (which I've only seen ten minutes of), there's still no guarantee she'll make it all the way to the end.

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Even More Random Thoughts:

20. I liked that the scholar's mother knew that her son became a scholar to help others and isn't like the rebels came here and destroyed our lives because they didn't adhere to the social order!

21. Yeonsangun's cowardice is seen when he can't kill Jeong-hak. He has no problem killing those who he views as beneath him in social standing or who have personally wronged him, but if you're part of the yangban class...it's like a free pass. Really, Jeong-hak doesn't deserve his job on merit...he's fucked it up too many times...but because of his connections, he's saved. This is again that privilege and bias the yangban enjoy.

22. I really don't think Yeonsangun or Jeong-hak will have troops that are loyal to them for long. I think Gil-dong will be capable of flipping them all on the battlefield because Yeonsangun is a poor leader who sees them all as nothing but cannon fodder. Real leaders fight with you. Crappy ones drink tea while you die...

23. And Madame Jo proves that her love for Jeong-hak is not unconditional. Their relationship only exists as long as the ideal Confucian social structures are observed and defended. I actually kinda felt sorry for Jeong-hak here, but it also showed how awful Madam Jo is.

24. That game Yeonsangun plays with the gisaengs wearing the monster mask reminds me of the Setsubun holiday in Japan where the dad will wear a mask and the kids will throw beans at him to ward off bad luck (the monster) and bring in good fortune.

25. I know Hyangjumok is completely cut off...but the Hongs have lived years carving out territory where there was none before. They've made money from alcohol in prohibition, mass capers on royalty and manipulated the government...so can't they develop a team to find secret ways out of Hyangjumok...like tunnels and such? That way, they could get more forces or flank the enemy.

26. Nok-soo's mea culpa with the king is interested because she takes a HUGE calculated risk in divulging the details of her relationship with the king in such a detailed way, but she knows that she can get back in by casting it all away. I think it's significant that her most ornate costume in hair and fashion is also the most ominous looking she's ever been.

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Final Randomness:

27. I think Nok-soo truly shows her evilness when she spares Ga-ryung, in front of Yeonsangun, just so that she can have the opportunity to die in front of her husband. I wonder what the audience at the palace will say to our Hongvengers if they ever hook up. I'm kinda dying for another Nok-soo-Gil-dong scene just out of curiosity where they both know everything. I want to know how Nok-soo will react and how Gil-dong will respond. I think Gil-dong would just be ice cold to her, strip her of all her power and turn her out to live a life of misery knowing everything she's done to others and let her live with guilt.

28. I think because LOTR is just sooo iconic...I just can't help but think of the Battle of Helm's Deep with that first seige of Hyangjumok...complete with the ladders. I think some ministers/magistrates not on the king's side must know what is going down and I would LOVE for them to band together and form a Rohirrim cavalry to help take down the king.

29. Surprise, surprise...Yeonsangun likes to waste tons of money, people and resources just so he can go to Hyangjumok to gloat and stroke his ego. I would love for a Rohirrim to him and help take him down.

30. Mori's gotta start loving himself and peace out of that situation with Jeong-hak. He gets the blame for all of Jeong-hak's incompetence. Seriously, boy. Go to where you'd be loved and appreciated.

How did I go on for so much Nok-soo/Ga-ryung random and still have room for all this...O_o...

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Hahaha, I just wanted to write something about Lord of the Rings and then I thought: "Oh new random thoughts of @cloveredlioness, I'll read them first" and then you came up with Lord of the Rings too!
Mine is another Lord of the Rings reference though.
I thought because Mori seems obviously connected to foreign countries (Javert from Les Miserables Musical, Kadokawa how he is portrayed in City of Life and Death, the Emperor Claudius incident), foreign countries play a role in that drama. Now because of the child in the village I connected that to my own countries relationship to Korea in the Park Chung-hee era and that brought me to the labor camp, Gil-dong and robbers are taken after arena fight.
Laborcamps existed in Korea, but when they are overseen by Mori. They suddenly also turn into the Mines of Mori-a ("a" is an ending that is attached to the name in the call form when you are talking to somebody lower and you are in a don't using the family name relationship). Now my country Germany really did exploit Korea in that time. We held good relationship with the Park Chung-hee regime because they sent lots of Korean Mine workers to our country to work in our mines (and nurses).

In a way that would tie in again with Hyeonmu, the black turtlesnake, because it's realm is the black abyss.
Moria in Tolkien World means black abyss. The Mines of Moria once belonged to the dwarves.
That would tie again the laborcamp scene with the stake scene, when one sees the Euldong as the Waegu. Since Waegu doesn't translate as Japanese Pirates literally but "Dwarf Pirate".

Haha, now when I understood ep 28 trailer correctly, that Gil-dong seems to stay at one city gate, while the others break through to the other city gate, that would make Gil-dong's and Moris fight the fight between Gandalf and the Balroq. "You shall not pass" at the Bridge of Durin in the Mines of Moria.

Funnily when I looked up, if Mines of Moria are really written Mines of Moria in English (weird German and Norwegian translators like to give different names to everything) on wikipedia and if I remembered the meaning of the name correctly, I came about a sentence in which was explained that Moria was also translated (against Tolkiens) wishes as the hill on whom Abraham wanted to sacrifice Isaak.
Now that again would tie in to Moris childhood! And to the General Yi Heub story. And to Heo Tae-hak sacrificing Mori to Gil-dong.

Lol, I'm so overinterpreting everything! :)
(On the other hand, the writer did tie in contemporary saviour figures before. And the destroying of the One Ring to rule them All fits to the message.)

Hm, but following my own logic the Balrog actually would have to be someone more fire related. Not someone water related...
Let's see what will happen next episode! :)

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On the other hand "some happenings from Trailer" + Balrog + Fire would make sense in connection to Xuanwu (Black Warrior)...

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Battle of Helm's Deep is more logical than Bridge of Durin. But I really want Gil-dong to say: "You shall not pass!" :D

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Just realized something weird...Eorini comments that Gil-dong is sweating and it's strange. He chalks it up to being weak. Well, in the scene before that, we see Ga-ryung when she attempts suicide. Well, during that scene, she had sweat on her brow...So is Ga-ryung's feelings/emotions/physical pain etc being felt by Gil-dong? Are they linking minds? Does it go beyond astral projection/dreams? Is there another connection between them? Because I know he had a weird dream about his wife, but there's no evidence as to why he'd be sweating. Ga-ryung is probably weak and locked in a hot tent...

I really want Eorini and Gil-hyun to actually meet Ga-ryung and learn why Gil-dong adores her so much.

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yeah, the sweating was unusual but I'm more worried that it presages Ga-ryung's death.

Gil-dong and Ga-ryung aren't the only ones to have this kind of astral connection, since Amogae appeared to Gil-hyun right after he died - I'm extremely worried right now that Ga-ryung's appearance at this exact moment, with those flowers, is a sign she's about to die too. Partly because I honestly don't know how all the Hongs are going to make it out alive anyway, and because I can't see a way for Ga-ryung off that pole if the next thing the king's army tries to do is set her on fire (which makes the arrow the only thing that would give her a mercifully quick death).

I could really do without this particular likeness to Amogae - it's devastating, but I don't want Ga-ryung to be used as bait in the attempt to kill Gil-dong just as Geum-ok was used by Master Jo to provoke Amogae. Even if we knew it's where this was headed from their first scene together.

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I just don't want Ga-ryung's story to ultimately end as manpain motivation for Gil-dong.

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To be fair, it hasn't been just the women who were manpain motivation for Gil-dong, he was tearing up the forest over it when he thought his brother and sister had died. And the king/Song Sabu STILL don't know that the spy they sent out to betray the location of Gil-dong's secret hideout, is actually his sister! For all they know, she's just vanished (with a side chance of turning traitor). Not that she'd want to go back now, or that her brothers would even contemplate it, but until now it was almost hilarious, the extent to which Yeonsangun was getting played by Gil-dong's entire family.

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Also, one thing I like about Ga-ryung's revenge arc is that it's no longer about avenging just Gil-dong, she feels herself morally beholden to do some damage for the people of Joseon.

I've really liked that widening of her purpose - which is how, when she's on that post and screaming that if Gil-dong stops because of her, she'll never see him again, it's a very credible threat - she means it. She's not just supporting Gil-dong's mission, it's hers too.

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I love this couple so much....It's probably my favourite kdrama ship of all time. I just love how they really support and bring out the best in each other.

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Honestly, I really think it's down to the actors - it would have been so easy for the initial setup and development of their relationship (not to mention how seemingly abrupt it was at first) to come off as boring, but Yoon Kyun-sang and Chae Soo-bin just sell the hell out of the chemistry and also the idea that this kind of relationship can work onscreen.

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re: astral projection, I can't believe I missed off the first example of it in this drama - Gil-dong's mother appearing to Amogae after her death and telling him to go home to the kids!

I'd thought that was just a dream or maybe his subconscious, but after he appeared to Gil-hyun after his own death, I'm not at all surprised that Ga-ryung has a similar connection to Gil-dong. Apparently Hong family members run to supernatural dreams :)

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I think the four guardian gods of the king won't be the four guardian gods of the king in that story, but the four guardian gods of the people. The ones who will protect the people with their sacrifice.

Also, I believe that the trinities will be new mixed, because I think that Eorini belongs to the trinity of the mother godess.
Because now male-female-male wouldn't be the "father" trigram but a daughter "trigram" in the book of changes.
And I think for the father of the people, the writer will go with the Hwanung-Dangun-Hwanin trinity with Gil-hyun as Hwanung (scholar...) and Gil-dong as Dangun (realm of the people) and I'll leave Hwanin for interpretation.
While with the mother I thought, the writer will go for the trinity of the mother goddess Mago (Mago and her two daughters) - she is a shamanistic first goddess. Only I primarely thought the daughters would be Eorini and Ok-ran, but I'm confused, because the ones that Gil-dong confuses Ga-ryung with are Eorini and the shaman. (Though I'm not quite sure if the shaman and Amogae probably would present some kind of first principle)

That would bring us back to the bear and the tiger and Dangun. So Gong-hwa/Nok-soo is the tiger who couldn't find the endurance to become human.

I think the people surrounding Guanyin are also presented in the drama. They are probably the ones she resurrected. Amogae (boy with the bad leg) and Gil-dong (warrior) are already there. Two more to go. (And Geum-ok is the bird?)
Probably one will be Ok-ran and Nok-soo will cry for her? A mom and a daughter Longnü?

So that means they change from abused children to grown-ups to immortals and then they merch into to the first Mother and Father god of the people? --- And what I really want to know: do they have to die (again) to merch into gods?

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I'll change that: No merchings! They will only become brother gods and sister godesses. Mother and father extra! No Amogae. Probably no mago but other mom goddess, one with 3 daughters. Rest stays.

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I'm really loving all the background symbolism here, it's incredible even if the drama doesn't follow it to the letter.

Also, I didn't know about the tiger who lacked the endurance to become human! That sounds like a really sad symbolism for Nok-soo.

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It's the founding myths of Gojoseon.
Hwanung persuaded Hwanin to let him go to the earth and build a nation. Hwanin agreed and Hwanung went down to earth with the three ministers and 3000 man. On the mountain Baekdu they builded the City of Heaven.
Hwanung then was approached by a tiger and a bear, who wanted to become human. Hwanung gave them 20 garlic roots and a handful of mugwort and told them to live in the mountain for hundred days with no light and no other food. After 20 days the tiger gave up. The bear endured and was transformed into a beautiful woman.
But Ungnyeo, the bear woman, wished for a child and was very sad. Everyday she prayed for it under a birch tree. Hwanung was moved by it and took Ungnyeo as his bride. Soon they birthed a child, whom they named Dangun.
Dangun built the city Asadal and became first king of the country around Asadal, which he called Joseon.

(More or less something like: city of heaven, city of man, if Hwanin had a city, it probably would be city of otherworld --- a little bit like asgard-midgard-udgard --- level of consciousness/brightness - the connecting level - level of subconsciousness/darkness).

The Bear had overcome her fears (darkness) and desires (eating meat) in the realm of Hwanin, then she had an "encounter" with Hwanung and gave birth to Dangun, the connecting realm. The realm of humans.

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That's interesting, I can definitely see the parallel to Nok-soo and Ga-ryung there (one stuck it out and waited, the other chose not to)

I still feel bad for Nok-soo though, that an attempt at improving her lot in life led her to this.

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Also, I had to post this before episode 28 comes to cut our hearts open tomorrow: Yeonsangun votes in the Korean presidential election! (with bonus Nok-soo, but she's not in costume)

http://68.media.tumblr.com/c9a307d76943c6c47e54bf2c54676fb3/tumblr_opjhl5gF8J1r2jikso1_1280.jpg

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The worst tyrant in Korean history goes to the polls. What a great photo!

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I think I've said it elsewhere, but Rebel is a drama that reflects the current political situation in Korea in quite a few ways and would only have been possible now, so seeing Yeonsangun go to vote is a bit like full circle.

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This drama is so far from perfect, but I do still find it interesting and engaging. If they had just made it a little bit shorter I think it would be much better off, but I'm satisfied(ish) with where they are going plot-wise. I'm worried that they won't resolve everything I want resolved in three episodes, and I feel as if they dragged out the wrong things for too long instead of focusing on more important aspects of the plot and characters. I do wish they focused more on Gil-dong's powers though, which haven't really been a central theme whatsoever. He just seems like someone who's reeeallly good at fighting rather than the scarily strong Mighty Child we saw in the beginning of the series. That aspect really bothers me since one of the main reasons I got into this drama was because of the whole Mighty Child thing. I'm also afraid that there is no way for a good ending for the characters since they're in such a tight spot. One of my favorite parts of the show is it was so satisfying in the revenge parts in the middle of the series. I hope they deliver a satisfying ending for the main gang and a happy ending for all the citizens.
I love the concept and the actors of the drama, but I am having a hard time with emotionally connecting to them. I wish they planned for a shorter series from the start, maybe 20-25 episodes instead of 30. I think they could have done a better job with Gil-dong's conflict with the king, but it took soooooo long to get there. As much as I loved the Hong family's time together in the beginning and middle of the series, I'm getting a bit tired. It took too long to get where we are now. I still love it though, maybe just because I'm attached to the actors too much.

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It's funny, because I feel the opposite about the middle stretch - after Gil-dong & Co. took care of Choongwongoon (that was a great set of episodes indeed), the plot kind of spun its wheels for a few episodes taking its time to actually confirm Song Sabu as villain, restore Choogwongoon to favour etc. The best thing in those episodes was the development of Gil-dong and Ga-ryung's relationship and their marriage, it didn't really take off until Gil-hyun and Gil-dong were reunited and then found out the hard way that the king was behind the Sugwidan, Gil-dong's torture and so on.

Now that we're almost at the end, I can see how the structure went - the first third to setting up the story with Gil-dong's childhood and early life until the ruin of Ikhwari, his separation from his siblings and his becoming the boss of the reformed Hongvengers, second part to their revenge on Choongwongoon using the king to get to him (while Gil-hyun serves under the name of Park Ha-sung)+ Gil-dong's search for Eorini leading to an incidental development of a social conscience, and closing out for the last third with the reunion of the brothers and the king being the antagonist in their struggles this time around, with Gil-dong taking an even stronger stand against the system after having been tortured and nearly dying. If anything, I feel the last third is where the show has recovered its strengths, especially with the renewed attention given to the female characters - in particular, Ga-ryung.

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I totally agree. This show has been on a tight roll since episode 18 for me where everything is firing off at all cylinders and each episode just gets better and better and has more tension and excitement.

And I did like that they took the slower times to build up the Gil-ryung relationship even though it felt like it was spinning its wheels...because when you look at the full picture, everything has its place.

I wouldn't care about the plot now if they hadn't taken the time they did to build up the characters and make me care and want to root for them.

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yeah, now that we're approaching the end, I'm getting to each episode with a mixture of excitement and terror that weren't really there in those latter middle episodes - and looking back, things are falling into place.

But another part of the reason why the middle stretch lagged was also because that's where the who's-the-Eorini mystery started and was most indulged even though Lee Soo-min's face should have been the biggest clue that she was Eorini all along, they could have found another way to let it slip to Nok-soo that Gil-dong was the husband Ga-ryung was seeking to avenge. I mean, I really didn't need what seemed like gratuitous scenes of the girls practicing their dance routines and that much screen time in general devoted to it. Thankfully the show stuck to trolling only us, and had her brothers recognise her right away!

(the other thing that should have been a big clue before she saw Gil-dong - little Eorini is entranced by Nok-soo when she first glimpses her through the door of the Jangakwon, it makes sense that the girl who wanted to serve her was Eorini after all).

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Another thing that I noticed, even though it was very subtle, was that little Eoirini was holding a basket before she transitioned into teen Eorini who was also holding a basket. But then the camera just decided to zoom into Ok Ran first before focusing on Eorini. Trolls indeed ?

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@latteholic - seriously, they're SUCH trolls! I kind of hate all the time we spent on this, even though it's hilarious in hindsight it really could have done with trimming.

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Also, speaking of current Korean politics, it hasn't missed me that this drama was announced at a time when public opinion mobilised in a massive way against a deeply unpopular president, and has been airing in the gap between the campaign for her impeachment/eventual impeachment and the election of the next President. That is, imo, not a coincidence.

I couldn't also help noticing that the Sugwidan smoking gun is not unlike the unlocked tablet found by JTBC that eventually nailed Choi Soon-shil to the post on the question of favours and corruption (down to its belonging to a shadowy unofficial figure close to the President and whose whims and ideologies were indulged during the Presidency).

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@latteholic Sorry I don't know why I can't reply straight to you :( Is there something wrong with my connection at this side of the world?!

Anyway, I just wanna say that watching Yoon Kyun-sang and Chae Soo-bin off camera, they look so comfortable, almost like a brother-sister relationship? IDK why I see it like that but yeah I do, so I'm trying to forget that and trying to hypnotize myself that they are really in love (in the drama) lol. Also, you guys should probably watch their variety show together. The show's name is Oppa's Thinking (I actually thought it's more appropriate to name the show Oppa's Idea because the setting is of the show is in a PR company) and I did a translation for one of the short clip, the one where Soo-bin's friend (she's from Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-joo) told everyone what Soo-bin's idea type is.

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@enkeys no worries. I think after several nested replies, we wouldn't be able to reply directly to the original commenter. Ah I totally see what you mean. I guess for me personally I just think that they look adorable together off-screen, that's why all those BTS clips actually made me ship them harder and enhanced my drama viewing ?.
+1 for Oppa's Thinking. I watched the youtube clips before without sub (and still waiting hopelessly for sub ?). The clip where they made YKS into Gulliver and made him giving out that coat hug for Yang Se-hyung just cracked me up!
The Chae Soo Bin's part confused the heck out of me before because when I tried translating the hangul myself (I'm so glad that variety shows always feel the need to emphasized what's going on in writing!), I was like ‘errr, long’? Luckily someone on my tlist kindly translated that part for me. I hope I can see your translation as well! ? Btw, I read somewhere that the show has finally secured a weekly slot. Kinda hoping ODK or VIU will sub it, which means we probably can get the the pilot episode fully subbed as well.

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Sorry, I meant that you should turn on the CC on the youtube video. The subs are up! :) I hope someone sub the whole video too. Everyone were funny, especially when they make fun of Solbi! I laughed a lot at Kyun-sang's PR video. That was one crazy video lol

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Thanks @enkeys! I will definitely check it out! ?
His PR concept is super crazy indeed! But I got a good laugh out of it ?

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If Jisung or Nam Gong Min had taken the role, I guess the whole noona romance between mature Gong Hwa (in this case Honey Lee) and young Gil Dong wouldn't really possible and wouldn't be as beautiful and bittersweet as we've got in earlier episodes..

And if they had casted another older actress compare to Chae Soo Bin's age to match Jisung or Nam Gong Min, the whole one-sided crush and puppy love between Ga Ryung and Gil Dong wouldn't be as sweet and adorable as we have now..

And if it was Jisung or Nam Gong Min as younger brother Gil Dong, would they have still casted Shim Hee Seop as Gil Hyun hyung or chose other older actor?

Hold on, is that mean the script could have been an entirelly different story depend on which actors/actresses would take the role? I wonder how many times the sriptwriter should re-edit his/her story to fit the real condition when they start filming.. Such a tough job, but interesting..

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Whaat?? It should have been a reply.. okay, I'll go to sleep now..

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That's an interesting point @keiru! I'm sure Anthony would be able to answer this and that actually makes me want to watch the King of Drama again ? I'm guessing the plot would remain the same, but some scenes would be written differently to match the leads.

At this point, I really couldn't see any other actors/actresses playing any of the characters in Rebel. I just love the castings from the veteran actors to all the newbies. Everyone just fits their respective roles and matches each other really well. And I couldn't be happier that they casted Shim Hee Seop as Gil Hyun hyung!

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yeah, it's so interesting to think how this drama could have been so different if they'd cast different actors as Gil-dong - and how it would possibly have deprived us of some of our favourite cast members for sure, given the likelihood that they cast around Yoon Kyun-sang/to suit him (at the very least, I assume we wouldn't have Chae Soo-bin as Ga-ryung or Sim Hee-seop to play Gil-hyun, since he is supposed to be Gil-dong's hyung).

I'm guessing some of the others would stay the same though, like Honey Lee (who was cast before YKS signed on), Kim Ji-suk and all the senior actors.

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About the change of locations and the missing beards from the first episode to episode 27.

It's not a mistake, but it is meant like that by the writer.
What is a dream and what is real? Life is fleeting...

It is connected to the Samguk Yusa story about the heartache of Joshin and the dream that led him in sweats.

It is connected to the 9 clouds dream which is connected to a few of the Hong Gil-dong Tale Manuscripts.

Within the story of Rebel it is - read from another angle - connected to what Nok-soo said about her and Gil-dong's love being just a dream.
From even another angle it is connected to Ga-ryung's story of the boy.
From an angle more it is connected to Princess Pali's story.

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I think you're right... episode 1 gave us a potential future... but maybe Gil-dong's choices have changed what happened in episode 1. There's a lot of things that are different about the scenes. Maybe he won't have to shoot Ga-ryung.

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Why Yeon-san is using the word "hunt" and "hunters"

It relates to the Samguk Yusa story of the hunter Geosa, who was day in and day out sent out by his mother to hunt wild animals, because she would only eat meat.

I can't tell the whole story (possible spoiler). But it relates to Siddhārtha Gautama and also to Xuanwu. And to the Hong Gil-dong Tale.
It relates to Soo-hak.
It also relates to Mori.

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About that weird scenes that felt out of the sageuk frame of the drama. The bat-immortals superhero scene and the Ga-ryung suddenly being the overinnocent candy girl despite growing up in a gibang.
I think it refers to the dreams of little boys and little girls (they also look like children's costumes) and Gil-dong and Ga-ryung and band of thieves for a fleeting moment living that dream.

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If one thinks to Eorini-Ok-ran from the free/true Media angle, the whole guessing game was brilliantly done. It needed only a few hints for the one girl and a few for the right girl and we as audience couldn't tell the truth from the false anymore.
Did they really put the wrong name up on the drama's page and later, when the "mysterium" was solved, changed it? - That's really brilliant! Breaking the dimensions!

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lol. But one thing I'm wondering about is if naver page is similar to wiki? In a sense that anyone can make edits to the page? Otherwise that would just be pure trolling from the crew...

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I don't know, but it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, because they did it intentional with Mori/Moreu and Wolha(l)mae too.
Change only a letter or a line and you get a whole knew meaning.

I don't know if you still remember that somebody said "Ah Wolhalmae - Grandmother moon" and I said "No, it's without l". I did totally fall in that pit.

At least with Mori I tried to look more despite of the fact that the only word in Korean dictionary for Mori would be "seeking profit" with the conotation of "seeking profit in war". I'm glad I looked for the possible Hanja's and came up with "just somebody unthinking" and decided said even it's not meant, it is at least fitting for me.
This night, all this connections: Germany, Latin, Lord of the Rings, Hanja "just somebody unthinking state" went wild trough my mind.
Because nearly everything in "Lord of the Rings" is connected to mor-eu (mordor = mo-reu-do-reu; Morgoth Bauglir from the Silmarillion and Children of Hurin = mo-reu-go-seu) and mo-reu in Korean means "not knowing".

Now the Korean phrase when you say, that you don't understand somebody's intention is:
"Not to know Latin" (Latineoreul moreu-)da

So Mori is not only what you see at first or second look, but there is more behind. And he is also connected to (not) understand "foreign" intentions/the intentions of the other.

It's then also connected to foreign affairs.

And because of all the fiction incorporated in his name. It is also connected to "saseol sseuneun bomeul moreu-da" (not to know fiction/being innocent of the craft of fiction).
Which connects to the Media.
Which connects it to the realm of dreams and fairytales, to the subconscious to the realm Hwanin, but also to our unability to see beyond to know what our subconscious wants us to see, because we willingly want a simple, liniar, explainable world.
It also connects to "not knowing how to dream" and to the abused children.
It connects to the book "A Rat is a Pig is a Dog is a Boy" from Wesley Smith, which connects it to the story of the Hunter in the Samguk Yusa. Which connects it to Siddharta and Hyeonmu and Guanyin.
It's connected to Shakespeare which connects it to King Claudius which connects it..., ..., ... and the Hong Gil-dong tale.

What is the truth and what is a dream?

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It doesn't matter where we come from. We are all connected through the realm of fairytales and we all share the same dreams, hopes and fears.

Which would connect this Hong Gil-dong with the Hong Gil-dong version from 2008 through the ending song from the 2008 drama.
The song "lær meg å kjenne" from Sissel Kyrkjebø (Norwegian Singer, Hooray! My other country is featured as well), the Danish Story Version of the Samguk Yusa story of the dream of Joshin.
Sissel explains the story and lyrics of the song in the musicvideo (in english).
(Though she leaves out the most important line "it was all yours (not mine) from the beginning and only borrowed for a while")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v158W2lI5Y

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The thing with the cloud dream of nine (the dream of Joshin) is: it's only featured in some of the Hong Gil-dong versions.

The other versions don't feature the cloud dream of nine.

I honestly don't know how the story will end!

Does it mean they will have to give us two endings so that we have a choice?

Does it make even make sense to follow a historical "accurate" route, when it was already based on an idea that was not a fact?
(I know I have said that 100 times, but that the historical robber Hong Gil-dong was a thief for the people is an assumption anyway. You can't conclude it from the four of his entries in the Joseon Annals. It's already an interpretation, regardless if it was said in episode 0 by a history scholar or not).

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Thanks for the recap, tineybeanie! I've had the vapors since this episode aired, and have been dreading what's coming next in episode 28. On the one hand, I hope against hope that the Hongs all survive to ride off into the sunset. On the other hand, I want the story to stay true to the characters themselves. Thus the laws of probability force me to consider that the cats are running out of their allotted nine lives. Yong-gae's declaration that he came to die at the village, which mirrors Ga-ryung's statement that she came to die at the palace, only adds to my angst. Having had my heart well and truly shredded by THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK-HYANG, I know how very capable Writer-nim is when it comes to meting out heroic deaths. “Remember the Alamo!” keeps resonating in the back of my mind.

That tableau of Gil-dong being joined on the log under the pine tree, first by Gil-hyun, then by Eorini, worries me. She seats herself in a parallel to the way she beat them up while sleeping between them when she was little, and Gil-dong teases her that she's ugly. Is it Gil-hyun who says they'll never be parted again? That may well be true – if they all end up in the Happy Hunting Grounds. I got the shivers when the rest of the Hongs join them and call out their names – just as they did when Amogae adopted their clan name. Ga-ryung is conspicuous by her absence, and reminds me of the opportunity that Gil-hyun had to be introduced to her by Magistrate Eom, but passed up. Is that foreshadowing that they will not meet in this lifetime?

One other thing about that scene made me really believe their secret hideout is near Ikhwari. In the background, through the trunks of the pine trees, I could see the stone pagoda near which the conical piles of stones were located. It's interesting that we don't actually see the pine with the big root the mudang blessed. I wonder why.

I'm no fan of Jo Jeong-hak, but even I have to admit that I felt bad for him when his mother told him to die if he does not vanquish Gil-dong. She's willing to kill off her family line?! How Confucian is that? She comes across as being just like Nok-soo, who would rather be seen as having made correct choices in life than actually being happy. They're both spiting themselves, one out of political ideology, the other out of pride.

Gil-dong's dream of Ga-ryung was beautiful. I'm taking her admonitions at face value. Nok-soo thinks Gil-dong has only two possible choices: surrender to save Ga-ryung, or abandon her to save himself. It never occurs to Nok-soo that there could be other options – or that he would have the guts to follow through.

I'm really beginning to wonder what's going on with Writer-nim and the preemption of her dramas at crucial turning points in the stories. The same thing happened with THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK-HYANG. The Sochi Olympics and other preemptions literally decimated (reduced by 1/10) the episode count from 120 to 108.

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@pakalanapikake glad to finally see your comment! Now I'm really dreading picking up KDSBH. I know already that one of the beloved characters is going to die, and I don't know if I would ever be prepared to watch that... ?

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yeah, that's my plan for post-Rebel too - KDBSH. I was always daunted by the episode count even though they were only half an hour each, but now I think I can take those on.

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@latteholic May 9, 2017 at 4:43 PM,

Sorry to take so long to post. I was out of sorts, but eventually got it together.

As for KDSBH, Writer-nim doesn't pull her punches, and the story is all the better for it. Factionalism, royal jealousy, intense hatred a la Madam Jo, delusions of grandeur, inept political gamesmanship by someone who thinks they're the cat's meow -- all of these things contribute to the collateral damage. Strained relations and open warfare with neighboring kingdoms also occur. On the up side, there are three lovely romances -- four if you count Seolnan's spy buddy's -- and a couple of bromances -- that bring great warmth, caring, and humor into the mix. There is much nobility and honor, too. Plus 100% gat-free manes of glory, and great sword fights. Add lovely music and beautiful costuming and sets. It's worth the bereavement. Really. ;-)

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@pakalanapikake - good catch re: the stone pagoda/secret hideout location! I always thought there must have been a massive network of tunnels/natural caves under those trees, hence the shaman's awareness of them/them knowing where to go when they needed to hide.

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@pogo May 9, 2017 at 6:57 PM,

Gee, thanks. ;-)

Interesting about the tunnels and caves. It never occurred to me.

For some reason I've always had a sense that Ikhwari was way far from Hanyang. Maybe that's not really the case. But because it is on the sea, it has to be the West Sea.

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After I watched episode 28, I deleted a lot of things I posted, because it seems they will be spoilers. In case somebody is not afraid of possible spoilers, I wrote my idea of the name that was scratched out from the graveyard sign of the third grave of Park Won-il's family on my fan wall.

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ooooh I hadn't even thought of that as the possible name!

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