Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 16

1,128 October 18, 2016

by HeadsNo2

There’s only one episode this week due to a pre-emption yesterday, but it certainly is an eventful one. Su has to come to terms with her trust issues this hour, despite some of her visions of the future (in the past) coming true. But the question remains: Is the future she saw one that’s already taken her into account, or is it all just inevitable anyway?

EPISODE 16 RECAP

King Jeongjong looks on as Soon-deok valiantly fights to protect her husband, though tenth prince Eun steps in when Soon-deok is wounded. He asks his brother to spare them, but with one look from the king to one of the soldiers, Soon-deok is cut down in an attempt to spare Eun.

Eun crawls over to her with tears in his eyes, and cradles her face as he tells her that everything’s going to be all right. But she passes on, leaving Eun crying and helpless.

It’s then that King Jeongjong takes his bow and fires an arrow straight into Eun. Just before he can fire the other, So jumps into the fight to protect his brother as fourteenth prince Jung and Su arrive to see the scene before them rapidly deteriorate. So tries to fight off the soldiers, but that doesn’t stop Jeongjong from shooting an arrow into Eun’s chest.

So catches Eun before he can fall, and Eun, gasping for air, reminds his older brother of the birthday where So said he’d grant him any gift he wanted. Motioning to Soon-deok, Eun says that he can’t let her go alone, and asks one, final gift of his brother: He wants So to kill him so he can be with his wife, rather than the cruel Jeongjong.

With tears in his own eyes, So slowly raises his sword and cuts Eun down even as Su whispers, “No, you can’t.” It’s the same as it was in her vision, except that So watches in horror as a dying Eun reaches out toward his wife before he joins her in the afterlife.

Jung runs to his brother, urging him to wake up as So struggles even harder to contain his emotions. He breaks and begins to laugh incredulously instead, which fulfills the final part of the vision Su had—except that what she had considered to be victorious laughter is instead something much closer to a sob.

She crumples to the floor in shock as So looks toward her, but he leaves without saying a word. Su flashes back to all her fond memories with Eun as she sits, too shocked to even cry.

Grand General Park has to only look at So’s bloody sword before he goes running to the courtyard to find his precious daughter and son-in-law dead. He cradles the limp form of his daughter as Su continues to look blank, and says with a rueful smile that Soon-deok was the one who wanted to marry Eun, because he was her first love.

He was against it, General Park adds, because he knew this would happen. “Was my Soon-deok very adored by the prince?” he asks. “Very much,” a shell-shocked Su finally replies. “Very, very much. They loved each other.” The general seems soothed by this somewhat, though he cries pitifully as he holds his dead daughter in his arms.

“I’ll kill him,” Jung says, breaking the emotional moment. “I’ll kill Wang So.” Wait—you’re blaming him and not Jeongjong? Su grabs onto his robes and tells him not to do it, because that’s what Eun asked So to do. Jung can only drop his sword and cry out in frustration.

Outside the palace, a still-bloody So tells Astronomer Choi that he thinks he should become the rabid dog-wolf everyone once accused him of being—the king who ends lives, bites his master’s hand, and takes over his master’s house.

As he walks away, he thinks to himself, “I, Wang So, will become King of Goryeo.”

When King Jeongjong relays the news of Eun and Soon-deok’s deaths to Wook, Wook’s hands tighten ever so slightly even as his face remains neutral. Well, at least he still feels something.

That’s when Jeongjong decides to announce his plans to move the capital from Kaesong to Seokyeong, which will make his uncle, Wang Shik-ryeom, happy.

An emotional Baek-ah tells So that they won’t be allowed to mourn for Eun because he was labeled as a traitor, and though he and his wife’s body were thrown outside the palace gates to rot, they were able to give them a secret burial.

So tells Baek-ah about how Eun asked for one last gift from him, and Baek-ah completely understands why So did what he did—he knows that Eun would be thankful. Astronomer Choi interrupts to give So a letter from Su he just found, where she told him that Eun was hiding out at Damiwon.

So finds Su by the river, and despite her running up to him with hope in her eyes, he gives her a hard look. “I must look like a monster in your eyes. I killed Eun.” While Su claims she understands, So asks her why she hid Eun’s secret from him—was she that worried that he would kill Eun if he knew?

Su admits that she was only worried about Eun, and wanted only for he and his wife to escape together safely. “I didn’t realize we could end up hurting each other until it was too late. That was why I left that letter. I trusted you. I know it took some time, but I truly trusted you, enough that I would trust you in any situation,” she adds tearfully.

“But… now I no longer feel that way,” So says. He adds that he won’t be able to disassociate her from what he had to do because she didn’t trust him: “Eun died because of you. I will remember how I had to kill him.” Even when he had to become the king’s dog to save her, his feelings didn’t change. But now, he says coldly, they have.

“Let’s stop,” he says, turning away. But when Su calls him a liar, So gives her a small smile as he amends that they promised never to lie to each other. Ouch.

When So’s alone, however, we see him falter as tears spring to his eyes. Oh, you did lie! And broke your promise! Tsk.

So is rewarded with land by King Jeongjong for his help in executing the traitors, and is sent to see to the construction of new fortresses in the soon-to-be capital of Seokyeong. So commits himself to the royal command in a dead voice.

Jung calls his older brother out for his crimes while simultaneously announcing his plans to travel along the borders to help secure them. King Jeongjong warns him to stay away from the front lines for their mother’s sake, but Jung refuses to acquiesce, claiming that he lived like a coward for too long.

But before he leaves, he drops the two arrow stems they broke off Eun’s body in front of the king as a reminder. As if on cue, Jeongjong hears Eun’s voice as he pleaded for his and his wife’s lives. Fearful now, the king orders that sacrificial food be left for the dead—though he can’t specifically make an altar for Eun and Soon-deok, he might be hoping to calm their ghosts.

Grand General Park sarcastically wishes So prosperity in his new endeavors, especially considering that he gained land and wealth for hunting down and killing his daughter and son-in-law.

However, a flashback reveals that So, Baek-ah, and Astronomer Choi went to see the general, who already knew of So’s desire to become king. General Park also knew that So was born beneath the star of a king, and King Taejo knew it too, which is why he sent So to him to learn martial arts.

So claimed to not believe in such things, but despite that, he fully intended to become king, even if he had to kill for it. General Park reminded him that King Taejo once said that to become king, one had to throw everything else away, so General Park planned to wait and see what So would be willing to give up for the throne.

Cut to Su, the sacrifice So had to make, as Baek-ah tells her that So’s left for Seokyeong and won’t be returning for a long while. She runs out with the hope of catching him before he’s gone, but when she doesn’t, she only says into the air: “I will wait for you.”

And wait she does, as seasons come and go around her. It’s been two years, and Chae-ryung comes with exciting news that someone Su really wants to see has come to the palace.

Su runs to greet the visitor, and barely hides her disappointment when it turns out to be Jung. She manages a small smile as she greets him for the first time in two years, with Jung looking a bit more mature (and now a general) from years spent protecting the borders.

Jung admits that he paid a visit to Eun and Soon-deok’s graves, and that he was worried that Su would’ve left the palace before he returned. He thought she would’ve gotten married by now, but Su says that she plans to work until she retires, and only then will she travel the world.

Baek-ah and Woo-hee get to greet the recently returned Jung, though it’s Jung and Woo-hee’s first meeting. Su introduces her as the highest ranked lady of the gyobang, and Jung recognizes her as the former gisaeng. He says this in order to insult Baek-ah, who he claims keeps bad company—So is another example.

He also accuses Baek-ah of sending a spy to keep an eye on the troops, but it’s only when Jung’s gone that Baek-ah and Woo-hee smile over how “cute” Jung is. And how quick, too—Baek-ah did send a spy, but only because he wanted to know how his brother was doing.

Su’s face loses its smile when Baek-ah asks which room So’s staying in, because he assumed that So was also here. Su hasn’t heard such a thing, but is clearly hopeful/worried.

With enormous dark circles under his eyes, King Jeongjong rings bells and gongs to ward away spirits at a temple, the altar of which is riddled with protective talismans. His concerned mother walks in to ask what he’s decided to do about Jung, and struggles to talk over the loud noises the clearly mad king is making.

Queen Sinmyeongsunseong finally grasps her son’s hands in order to quiet the noise, as she urges Jeongjong to make Jung the crown prince. Jeongjong looks distant as he asks his mother what he is to her—why is he pressuring her to pick a crown prince when he’s not dying anytime soon?

“Does Jung want the throne?” he suddenly asks, causing the queen to slacken her grip. Just then, So comes to give his greetings, and King Jeongjong just laughs that if his mother is so afraid, he’ll just make So the crown prince.

Su and Wook run into each other in the palace, but their encounter is formal and silent. Wook continues on to meet with the king, who’s acting slightly less mad as he berates So for the lack of progress with the fortress in Seokyeong.

So claims that it’s due to a lack of manpower and supplies, but the king chucks a cup at him before threateningly grabbing a nearby Su by the wrist. He tells So to do whatever it takes to get it done as he grabs Su’s wrist ever tighter, and before Jung can intervene, Wook grabs him to stop him.

It’s not until So drops to his knees to apologize for his error that the king slackens his grip, helped in part by Wook suggesting that they discuss this further in private.

Chae-ryung finds Su rewriting the same poem Su once gave her (“Walking until the water’s edge, I sit and watch as clouds rise up and appear”), recognizing the same characters despite her illiteracy.

She knows Su can’t sleep and suggests she go for a walk, and when she does, she finds So staggering at the spot where she’d go to wait these past two years. She chastises him for not coming to visit once, which he doesn’t deny. He also claims that he just came to this place because he was lost.

As he walks away, Su grabs him into a backhug. While he claimed to have forgotten everything, she says she hasn’t, and tearfully asks him to bear with her embrace just for now. Since he left on his own, she claims she has a right to do this much.

So hesitates, but stops himself from covering her hands with his own. She hesitantly asks if he still hates her, which is when he wrenches her hands off him and walks away. Su can only cry in his wake.

Woo-hee gives a report to the king about So’s false progress on the fortress in Seokyeong, claiming that he’s deliberately making it so that the fortress can’t be built. Though the king’s uncle Wang Shik-ryeom was supposed to oversee the construction, Woo-hee claims that he isn’t doing his job because he’s ill.

King Jeongjong wonders irately if this is all a ploy on So’s part for the throne, but Woo-hee has another concern: “Why have you broken your promise?” Since the king has mandated that those who can’t pay their taxes will be sold into slavery, the people of Later Baekje are being forced to work to death on the fortress.

“What meaning is there for me to be your eyes and ears, Your Majesty?” she asks, adding that the deal they made is no longer beneficial to her. The king calls her “Princess” as he threatens to tell Baek-ah about their little arrangement.

So flashes back to his fond memories with Su, smiling. He then thinks about how she asked if he still hated her as his smile fades—but just then, he turns around to find Su right behind him.

Apparently neither of them see King Jeongjong, ninth prince Won, and an entire party of attendants on the pavilion just feet away, watching them. Won uses this as evidence that Jeongjong can’t trust So, despite Jeongjong being sure that the two had no more feelings for each other. He even checked to make sure they never sent letters to each other during So’s absence.

In order to test where So’s loyalties truly lie, the king shoots an arrow at Su. So sees it just in time to grab her out of the way, getting slightly grazed by the flying arrow in the process.

He gets up immediately when the king and Won come down, with Won making it a point to notice that the two of them are closer than they appear. So just claims that it would’ve looked bad for the king to kill a court lady, though he’s probably not fooling anyone anymore.

Su takes the arrow that almost killed her back to her quarters, where she’s called Woo-hee to deliver a message to Baek-ah. We hear his response in voiceover as Su goes to the house where So is recovering, as Baek-ah mentioned that the gash on his arm got worse while he was traveling back to Seokyeong.

She finds So near the palace, with the arrow wound on his arm looking red and angry. He only catches half-unconscious and feverish glimpses of her as she tends to it, while she reaches out a tentative hand to trace the numerous other scars littering his body.

When he wakes, he finds Su sleeping across the room and gets up to kneel closer to her. Reaching out a hand, he moves as if to cup her face, only to be interrupted when Su wakes up.

Caught, he simply asks why she’s here. She said she asked Baek-ah for a favor so she could come ask him one question: “You still haven’t forgotten me, have you? You said you no longer liked me. You were lying, weren’t you?”

But that’s not the question she came here to ask, as she tearfully reminds him that she risked her life to leave the palace so she could be here. “In the past two years, there was not a day when I wasn’t waiting for you. I wanted to go back to that time. I wished for it again and again. So I wanted to tell you… that I trust you.”

She says she’ll ask him once more, and wants an honest answer from him: “Do you still love me?” There’s a long pause before So answers by turning around to kiss her.

He pulls back to see her crying, and wipes away one of her tears with his thumb. He swoops in for another kiss, and Su pulls him in tighter. A nearby candle flickers out, which can only mean one thing…

We return to find the two lovebirds lying in bed, with So stroking Su’s cheek. She wakes from her sleep and smiles at him, and they spent the rest of the night making shadow puppets on the wall. So’s actually pretty darn good at this.

They’re as adorable over breakfast the next morning, with Su hand feeding him bits of protein while smiling. That night, they study the stars together as Su points out constellations, though of course their bliss is interrupted by the arrival of Astronomer Choi.

He’s come with bad news: The king is very ill. Apparently the monk who was tending to the king got hit by lightning (hahahaha, sorry), and the shock of it was too much for the king to bear. We see the king going literally mad as he imagines Eun in his room and outside of it, as well as the ghost of King Hyejong or King Taejo.

Upon finding the king, Wook immediately left to see Wang Shik-ryeom in Seokyeong, which is why Astronomer Choi has come to So. General Park is gathering his forces, so it’s up to So to decide whether he wants to make a grab for the throne.

“Do you want the throne?” Su asks him. “I do,” So admits. Now Su realizes that the throne is the reason he left her, though he tells her that it was because the king was using her against him that he had to make it look like he no longer loved her.

She asks what he’d do if she asked him to give up the throne, and he just smiles at her as he says he’d convince her. Reminding him that he once said he didn’t need the throne as long as they could be together, she’s noticed that he doesn’t say that anymore.

Since they agreed not to lie to each other, So tells her that he came to realize that the world can change if the king changes. “I will not let others keep me on a leash. And if it is a seat where I can put an end to irrational matters, then I surely desire… to become king.”

COMMENTS

I’m at least glad they didn’t drag on the separation storyline for more than one episode (despite years passing in the timeline), though I’m still scratching my head over why it was necessary in the first place. It felt obligatory, like this was just the point in the story where we needed some noble idiocy and forced separation, and even if it was there to just provide some angst, it was so short-lived that by the time I noticed that this was where we were really going, it was over.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take the cute romantic moments between Su and So, even if their togetherness kind of negated the reason they had been driven apart. I get that So wanted to fool Jeongjong into thinking that he no longer loved Su so that she wouldn’t be used against him, but what good did that ruse do? It’s not like Jeongjong has a conscience that would’ve kept him from making Su’s life a living hell if he suddenly thought that So didn’t care, and it certainly didn’t stop him from manhandling her in front of So anyway. Or are we supposed to believe that the only thing standing between Su and that arrow was Jeongjong’s intel that they hadn’t sent each other any letters in two years?

Speaking of Jeongjong, I admit to being fatigued by what now feels like a parade of mad kings in this show, especially since the directing seems to have no desire to rein in any of these performances. It’s all just too much, what with Hyejong screaming his head off like a lunatic, and now Jeongjong constantly staring off into the middle distance while he talks crazy.

It’s fine to portray him as being plagued by guilt, even though guilt isn’t an emotion Jeongjong ever even hinted he could feel, but what’s the reasoning behind taking that idea to the absolute extreme? It’s to the point where I feel like they’re using madness as a cop-out to create an easy way to delegitimize whoever’s on the throne without having to create character-driven reasons for it, that way we’re left with only one option to root for. The simplicity can be nice sometimes, but we lose out on the complexity of So having to actually make plans against a worthy foe when that foe imagines dead people in his room at night.

I thought it was interesting that the scenario with Eun played out exactly as it did in Su’s original vision, but the intent behind So’s actions was (potentially?) different. It’s a question I dearly wish the show would explore a bit more, since we had Su looking wide-eyed at all the events happening before her, realizing that they were happening just as she saw them, and then… thinking nothing else about it. Are her visions true glimpses into the future? Is she seeing a future she already had a hand in, and does that mean everything’s predetermined to happen with or without her interference?

But now that she’s seen that So didn’t actually want to kill Eun, I wonder if she’s considered that perhaps the past has already changed, and that So won’t leave a trail of bodies on his way to the throne. I did like that So called her out on not trusting him this episode, and do feel that he was genuinely hurt by that—but I like it more that they’re back to being cute. At least we have a week to enjoy it.

1,128

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101 Maui

October 19, 2016 at 6:00 PM

October 19, 2016 at 10:29 PM

Wow Maui great defense. And you too @jamie. But my feeling of something missing is not on So's part, it's on Su's. I'd like to have felt her struggling against her attraction a little more, seen or felt the moment she gives into it and why. I need her inner thoughts I guess somewhere in all that mess where she's transitioning out of love with Wook and into love with So. No matter how many scenes they gave us, I still haven't completely felt it because somewhere in there I needed her pov more concretely. I'd say I'm hoping that begins now, the epicness of her love back for him, now that her fear of Gwangjong has disappeared, but people who saw the original seem to be hinting that big betrayals are in store for us. Sigh. I guess I'll just let the whole thing unfold and hope for the best.

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pogo

October 19, 2016 at 11:34 PM

That's how I feel, too - that two-year time gap in which Su's feelings about So started to tip over into love, actually did them a big disservice because we don't see the beginning of the realisation that she is in love with him after all. We kind of went straight from them being bffs with clear romantic intentions on his end, to Su finally being ready to accept him - but I wish we'd just got the moment when she did begin to see him as more.

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Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 12:18 AM

Yeah, pogo, I couldn't remember where I really felt the lack but you've pinpointed it - the two year time leap.

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 12:30 AM

I feel like that was not the best decision in terms of So and Su's story because while I understand how their relationship came to be the way it was during Mu's reign, I would very much have preferred being SHOWN the decisive moment that leads to Su finally putting that pin in her hair.

Up until that time jump, we were building up to an absolutely epic romance where we were shown time and again how great they could be together, and which literally just needed Su to realise she did want So as more than just a friend, to be complete. But the two-year gap in the narrative dissipated some of that tension by writing them into a state of stasis and not showing us how Su made that decision.

Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 12:46 AM

@pogo - and I hate to say this because I feel like I'm always blaming the editor not the writer, but that hair pin's magical appearance when it's supposed to be in So's possession pretty much tells me there was another scene edited out which probably would have filled the gap in this love story and satisfied me.

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 12:58 AM

@Barbrey - I suppose one benefit of the existence of multiple versions of this drama is that I think it's finally sinking in just how many things we DON'T get to see in dramas sometimes.

And I'm convinced that hairpin-return scene exists or at least was written and ended up a casualty of the cutting room floor. I mean, iirc she wasn't the one keeping it but I kind of glossed over that in the haze of feels from seeing the look in his eyes when he finally spotted it in her hair. Continuity really did go for a toss sometimes :/

Maui

October 20, 2016 at 5:57 AM

@Barbrey, I completely agree that it is hard to figure out why you still aren't feeling that deep, deep connection and that jump for Soo from being in love with So to truly falling in love deeply....I am sharing a post I wrote earlier in response to @Seltzerwater, I think one thing that's missing is that Soo has been getting to know So, but now So also needs to step up his game and decipher who Soo really is.... here's the post,.......@Seltzerwater….What you shared, I agree.” He’s probably going to be a great king, but he’s also mostly likely going to be dead inside.”(Without Soo)….I was thinking the same thing especially on that last scene (SBS version)….that last scene just killed me, So's full cofession…..It’s like So has spent the last 2 years turning into Gwangjong, and Soo has been sitting in the Daminwon essentially feeling guilty about having failed So….only now she realizes the true reason he left her was to prepare for the throne…..and the throne is like the ring in the Lord of the Rings…one ring to rule them all…one seat to rule them all…the allure is unavoidable even for So, and Soo sees that…..the final punch is when his eyes light up because he realizes a King can change things thru his experience building the castle….So has in a nutshell found his destiny as a leader for his people…it is what was missing in Mu and Yo….a true desire to lead and make a better country. He will make a great King…. @Barbrey wondered what Soo’s role was in all this?…she raised So to the place he is in a Gwangjong who will serve his people….the Gwangjong before Soo looked more like Beserker King…..out for revenge for the slights done onto him.This So, however has known love, enough of it from Soo to fill those holes left by the Queen Mother which prevented So from fully believing in himself and his potential and what he could do.Those doubts in many ways are represented in his scars, which now mostly are hidden under Soo’s makeup and So’s clothes. The scene where Soo touches his scars essentially show us she still sees the scars, even if everyone else doesn’t. She sees and understands the man underneath the facade. My only hope would be that So could see in Soo as well the amazing Queen she could be too, that he understands Soo as well as she knows and understands him. This means he wil treasure all of Soo but in order to be able to do this he will need to know all about Soo first. A really hard task because Soo wears a better mask than So and her scars are hidden….will he be able to do this? or instead as you wrote, ” He’s probably going to be a great king, but he’s also mostly likely going to be dead inside.” especially if Soo isn’t around…

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Jamie Opso

October 20, 2016 at 6:38 AM

@maui: Beautiful post--thank you. :)

"My only hope would be that So could see in Soo as well the amazing Queen she could be too, that he understands Soo as well as she knows and understands him. This means he wil treasure all of Soo but in order to be able to do this he will need to know all about Soo first. A really hard task because Soo wears a better mask than So and her scars are hidden….will he be able to do this? or instead as [seltzerwater] wrote, ” He’s probably going to be a great king, but he’s also mostly likely going to be dead inside.” especially if Soo isn’t around…"

My fear is that (if what people are saying will happen comes true) he will at some point epically misunderstand her, and that he won't see her true feelings until too late. :(

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Maui

October 20, 2016 at 9:47 AM

@Jamie...oh me too, the angst!!!!

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 8:48 PM

I can even live with a tragic ending, but a misunderstood tragic ending? I don't think my heart will recover from that.

Jamie Opso

October 20, 2016 at 6:31 AM

@barbrey: "my feeling of something missing is not on So’s part, it’s on Su’s. I’d like to have felt her struggling against her attraction a little more, seen or felt the moment she gives into it and why."

@pogo: "That’s how I feel, too – that two-year time gap in which Su’s feelings about So started to tip over into love, actually did them a big disservice because we don’t see the beginning of the realisation that she is in love with him after all."

I think it's one of the ironies of the show (and life): it's one of those "you never miss your water until your well runs dry" kind of things. Hae Soo never realized how much she loved So until he was in the process of changing into someone who no longer prioritized her above all.

She was ready to accept his love and instead he got engaged and then married to the little princess (to save the little princess from a terrible fate). Then (to stop Yo and to prevent further bloodshed between brothers) he tried to make a clean break with her (aka "threw her away"), so he could concentrate on his plans for gaining the throne. Then she spent two years waiting for him so she could declare her feelings and get him back--only at that point he had already changed even more into a version of Gwangjong (who wanted to do good for his country and his people).

I think it's this desperate desire for a man who has already changed that will tip Hae Soo's love into epic-ness.

/sigh

October 19, 2016 at 7:06 PM

So, ive been wondering if this rather discontinuous plot was done on purpose.. It feels like for events that are in accordance to history, they just state it narratively, instead of showing how the events work out in the show. Like eun's family's records that couldve helped us understand why it was plausible that he was seen as threat. Or how they just fast forward the kings' reigns. And i've been wondering why yo's uncle persisted on moving their capital city too..

I guess they expect viewers to already be aware of it and decide not to dwell too much on things that are already known. I've only seen news article comments from translation sites and most comments seem to focus on the excessive closeups and critics on the actings (though might be biased) but not much on the flow of the story itself..

Meanwhile for us international viewers, we have little to none of this historical knowlege....

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Yoyo

October 19, 2016 at 9:21 PM

Some executive whacked nut from SBS probably had this insane light bulb moment thinking that: "Let's remake this epic BBJX series and put our own twist to it."

Dumb executive 2: "That's a great idea! What kind of twists did you have in mind?"

Whacked Nut: "Let's use Goryeo history but make it into an epic love story of epic proportions by having our viewers do the work of placing key elements of the story together!"

Dumb executive 3: "Like having them research?"

Whacked Nut: "Exactly! That way, we get a higher viewer retention rate because they won't let all their efforts go to waste."

Dumb executive 2: "While we're at it, let's have different versions out for our simulcast."

Dumb executive 3: "Let's place this show in a timeslot where programs are most likely to get pre-empted!"

Whacked Nut: LET'S DO THIS!!!

Dumb executive 4: "Don't forget to screw up the love story!"

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Seltzerwater

October 19, 2016 at 9:57 PM

I don't know if these people are the smartest or dumbest people ever because I'm hella invested and these are the reasons why.

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pogo

October 19, 2016 at 10:32 PM

Exactly.

They $*@!ed up this bad and I'm still here like a fool every week flooding the comments section (sorry jb, your inbox!) because my feels will not stop.

Now imagine if they actually got it right and lived up to the original material and the cast.....

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pogo

October 19, 2016 at 10:33 PM

whoops that was me up there. I don't otherwise go by bluefloppyhat here!

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pogo

October 19, 2016 at 10:30 PM

Dumb Executive 5: "Let's give the director full creative control of our insanely expensive and hyped pre-production, by not even checking whether what he's put together is actually watchable!"

Dumb executive 6: "Yeah, the Chinese censors will do our job for us. No need to bother checking the final product ourselves"

Dumb Executive7: "Let's record and use loads of noisy trendy out-of-place OSTs in a sageuk drama! It's fusion anyway, the youth will love it!"

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banini

October 19, 2016 at 10:31 PM

At least its participative / interactive like Dora the Explorer and some other NickJr shows haha!

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pogo

October 19, 2016 at 10:34 PM

I guess it teaches viewers independence and self-sufficiency, in having us piece together everythin on our own?

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banini

October 19, 2016 at 11:21 PM

Add to that creativity and resourcefulness. It's a campaign of sorts:

Dramas do not make people dumb, they make them smarter.
Watching TV is also an exercise - mental exercise
Study! You don't want to end up like Hae Su
Watch dramas like a real 21st century woman - with both heart and mind

Yoyo

October 19, 2016 at 11:35 PM

By some dumb luck, if any of us get transported back to Goryeo or Joseon, our chances of survival will be greater than Hae Su's. Word of advice, head to the infamous cliff if and when you think your life is in peril.

Barbrey

Spi

October 20, 2016 at 12:48 PM

I died laughing!!! Thank you for such good laughs.
Joon Gi said in the interview today that he is sad the drama is not doing well domestic-wise. He also said he's been reading comments on the drama to study the reason why the ratings are so low. I think he really should come here and read your guys' awesome comments.

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Jamie Prado

October 24, 2016 at 5:08 AM

So much truth. I have researchers this drama more than any other I have ever watched.

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Ren

October 20, 2016 at 12:59 AM

*snort*

Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 12:49 AM

October 20, 2016 at 4:33 AM

Amazing, thanks Kumoiwa!

Spi

October 20, 2016 at 12:51 PM

Wow, thanks kumoiwa!

PakalanaPikake

October 21, 2016 at 4:55 PM

@kumoiwa,

Thanks for the political background.

Apropos of the feng shui in Songak, someone (Yo?) said that the ch'i of the land had weakened... Well what do you expect when you commit regicide against your own brothers and tried to stage a coup against the Crown Prince after pops turned up his toes?! The place is probably swarming with hungry ghosts, too.

Jamie Opso

October 20, 2016 at 6:53 AM

@Chocopie

"So, ive been wondering if this rather discontinuous plot was done on purpose.. It feels like for events that are in accordance to history, they just state it narratively, instead of showing how the events work out in the show. Like eun’s family’s records that couldve helped us understand why it was plausible that he was seen as threat. Or how they just fast forward the kings’ reigns. And i’ve been wondering why yo’s uncle persisted on moving their capital city too..

I guess they expect viewers to already be aware of it and decide not to dwell too much on things that are already known. I’ve only seen news article comments from translation sites and most comments seem to focus on the excessive closeups and critics on the actings (though might be biased) but not much on the flow of the story itself..

Meanwhile for us international viewers, we have little to none of this historical knowlege…"

Yes, I think this is probably the case. Just like Americans know about George Washington and the cherry tree, or Brits know about Guy Fawkes' plot, Korean viewers already know this history and can connect the dots of the historical plot pretty easily...whereas for international viewers, it's more of a struggle to understand.

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 8:55 PM

@Jamie - yeah, certain historical aspects appear to be done with the assumption that the audience knows them for themselves and can fill in. Which is a fair assumption for a Korean audience with a broad knowledge of key facts. but not so much when you're broadcasting to an international audience unfamiliar with Korean history.

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104 wackycashew

October 19, 2016 at 10:16 PM

Thanks for the recap, Heads!

Man, my head is still swirling a bit cuz the SBS version differed from the international version in several scenes. I gotta keep track of everything cuz it's not always the same order or scenes. LOL

I knew Eun-SD's deaths were inevitable, but still it just hits you in the gut that during his final moments, Eun's wish that could only be granted by So was for him to kill him so that he can be with SD. =((( It was a great way to bring back those visions Su had and give them new meaning now that she's actually witnessing them before her eyes. The supposed evil cackle turned out to be the saddest, most heart-wrenching sob that I have ever seen!! Bravo, LJG!! You totally own this role and I feel every emotion that So experiences. That's why I'm glad Su understood...

I liked how the seasons changed this time to indicate the time lapse, and I felt that overall, the separation and the arrow scenes were well adapted from the original series. I knew the trust thing was a major point of conflict between So-Su, so the fact that he used it to break up with her didn't surprise me. But we all knew that he still loved her regardless, so it was good to see them finally resolving the issue when Su tended to So's wound. What comes next I really don't know... Surely, So will ascend to the throne as dictated by history. But I don't know what the writer has in mind and how close/far this series will be from the source material or C-drama. So, I'm interested to see how things will end.

Yeah Joon Gi said in the interview today that he feels responsible for the performance of the show. The frustrating thing is that Moon Lovers is doing so well internationally. What a stark contrast with its domestic reception! But then the very ratings in SK are highly important for him which I understand completely. Still, I just want to shake him and tell him to stop worrying about the ratings. There's not much more he can do. He already nails this role of Wang So perfectly.
And what pogo said is sadly true. There's no justice in dramaland :(

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wackycashew

October 21, 2016 at 10:46 AM

Yes, I read the interview and felt so bad for him. I know that the leads would bear responsibility for ratings since that's what the people would talk about, and a big reason why companies would sign up certain actors. At least I hope he is comforted by the ratings overseas. Yes!! He really brought Wang So to life and is absolutely captivating when on screen. He makes you feel those emotions and want to root for him.

Maui

October 21, 2016 at 5:42 PM

@Spi, "Yeah Joon Gi said in the interview today that he feels responsible for the performance of the show."....I have one thing to say to Joon Gi, this is my first time seeing you act and HOW DARE YOU doubt yourself and your performance? and take the blame for the low ratings.....Someone hire this man a translator to sit here thru thousands of comments.....Someone previously commented, "I don't remember what I used to do in my spare time before August 29"......I can add to that, "I had a life before August 29...." look what you Joon Gi and your co-actors have done to us.....if your performance was nay better we might never be able to get away from this CRACK....

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 9:00 PM

yeah, I wasn't expecting Eun to ASK So for a quick death. That whole scene just killed me. And he really did grow to love Soon-deok without even realising it, thankfully they figured it all out before the end, and were together. That's a very small consolation but I think that's as happy an ending as this show will allow anyone.

I just pray that the next project Lee Jun-ki signs up for, actually is successful. He's way too trusting of drama PDs with previous hit works, and then things screw him over.

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wackycashew

October 21, 2016 at 10:49 AM

I guess that was the "best" way to exit for these two and even SD's dad felt that was enough as long as they loved each other. Definitely very sad and I'm not sure how other people's endings will pan out. I'm pretty much holding my breath trying to anticipate what So-Su would have to deal with still...

Totally agree. He's just oozing with talent, yet it's wasted in these projects because it's so underused.

Maui

October 21, 2016 at 5:46 PM

....I meant to say any in my previous post....also to add to that 2 Billion Joon Gi, write that on post it notes and put it on your mirror to remind yourself every time you look at the mirror...Think about that number, really think about it....

105 Piggie

October 19, 2016 at 11:09 PM

The actor who played the 10th prince, his performance was so-so until now. That dying scene cannot be easy to do, yet he did it so well -- unbelievable!!!

******
A famous Chinese writer once wrote a short story: a guy went mad and could suddenly clearly see human's evil nature -- hypocrisy, controlling, etc. But then he would recover his sanity and his own evil nature.

How interesting that when the king was teetering on the verge of madness and yet his mother still harasses him about succession issues -- that he was able to for the first time see who his mother really is. I also find the verge-of-madness acting really impressive. Perhaps I'm an idiot but for the first time, I feel sorry for the king.

********
Chinese people believes that when a person dies of serious injustice, he would retain that resentment even if he is dead. I know they are Koreans, but perhaps that's why the 14th prince (who is talented in martial arts, hence strong) could not pull the arrows out of the 10th prince?

********
I finally figured out how Wang So will be forced to give Hae Soo up! He might become so angry with her but he still wants her around. However, even as King and his words are law, he will have no choice!!!

It will seriously end so badly for all of them -- 13th prince, 9th prince, etc. I just hope they don't botch the ending, like the Chinese version did. OUCH!

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Jamie Opso

October 20, 2016 at 7:14 AM

@Piggie: Thank you for your insights! I appreciate you sharing them with us as Korean culture is strongly linked to China's.

"A famous Chinese writer once wrote a short story: a guy went mad and could suddenly clearly see human’s evil nature — hypocrisy, controlling, etc. But then he would recover his sanity and his own evil nature.

How interesting that when the king was teetering on the verge of madness and yet his mother still harasses him about succession issues — that he was able to for the first time see who his mother really is. I also find the verge-of-madness acting really impressive. Perhaps I’m an idiot but for the first time, I feel sorry for the king.

I first felt sorry for him when his mother slapped him and treated him with contempt when So completed the rain ritual. That was the first time I thought he saw she valued him only as a tool--but he kept going for the throne. This realization of her motives was why, once he became king, he told her he wanted her to "retire" from politics. It really sinks in for him, though, when he starts to go mad and questions why she is pushing him to name Jung as Crown Prince.

Chinese people believes that when a person dies of serious injustice, he would retain that resentment even if he is dead. I know they are Koreans, but perhaps that’s why the 14th prince (who is talented in martial arts, hence strong) could not pull the arrows out of the 10th prince?"

Oh, interesting! I noticed that moment but couldn't understand it. So Eun is holding on to his grudge...and the realization of that is what starts Yo's nightmare.

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Piggie

October 20, 2016 at 10:40 AM

In Ep-7, the grand general returns to the capital and looks up Wang So (paraphrased):

General: Seems you are more interested in nourishing your brains now.

So: I've learnt all I need from you.

General: I heard you killed dozens of people overnight & set fire...

So: They deserve to die.

General: (sarcastically) Seems like those books help you determine who deserves to die & who doesn't.

Killing is a sin that cannot be washed away with a few rounds of deaths & reincarnations.

(Note: The English version translates it as "No matter how many times you die & reborn, you will eventually pay for those sins" My translation is from Chinese, which I believe is closer to the original Korean version. Perhaps the difference is subtle, but I'm picky.)

So: You taught me how to kill

General: I taught you in order to protect.

************

Wise words, as always, from the general. Killing is already a great sin in itself, but what of killing the most innocent? The 10th prince's dream is not to become king, but merely to open the biggest toy store. Like Lady MacBeth, your sins (from killing) will eat you alive, if you have any conscience left.

October 20, 2016 at 6:21 AM

I looked it up and apparently the Chinese price for this was $400k per episode, which adds up to $8 million our of an estimated budget of 13 million USD. No idea how much sales to the rest of Asia brought in, though.

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Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 7:05 AM

Well it doesn't seem like it will be taking a loss then. Thanks for answering!

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 6:21 AM

*$8 million OUT of an estimated 13 million budget

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October 20, 2016 at 9:25 AM

@pogo,@LYF,@Barbrey,@JoseMiro, ....I remember when Star Wars the original came out, they had an interview with Harrison Ford (Han Solo), and he said he was truly dissapointed in Star Wars...so much work had been put into it yet the main actors had received very little recognition, he could literally at that point walk into the lobby of a movie theatre and no one would pay much attention to him, or realize who he was....Star Wars had received such a lukewarm welcome at home, people simply had no experience with a big blockbuster Science Fiction movie like this...they found it hard to relate to a movie with such a different theme from the usual movies of the time...Sound familiar?....30 or more years later....Harrison Ford asked many times for his character to be killed, because everyone associated him with Han Solo making it impossible to do any other work without someone, somewhere referencing Star Wars.....Lee Jun Ki's career has will never be the same after his performance as So....1 B-I-L-L-I-O-N....not millions, Billion watches internationally .....I will find it funny to see what happens when he vvisits China, and what kind of financial fallout from that market will follow....

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Maui

October 20, 2016 at 9:30 AM

continued...oh one more thing....he says he reads to understand what went wrong with this show, and to understand the audiences reactions....not sure how good his English is...but I wish he could read this forum....Beanies have truly done an amazing job of studying in minute detail this show...he definitely needs to visit this forum to understand the addiction is real....

Spi

October 20, 2016 at 1:11 PM

Maui, that's my wish too. But it seems that his English is not great ._.
But then again, I wonder what the Korean netizens say about the show. After all, the show is not doing well in Korea. I am really curious what Korean audience says actually.
Where do they usually comment on dramas?

LYF

October 20, 2016 at 4:57 PM

@Spi

From what I've heard majority of the comments are positive now, but that's probably because whoever's still watching the show at ep 16 enjoys it to some degree.

If you want to read some of the negative/mixed comments that came up during the first few eps, netizenbuzz has translated some (http://netizenbuzz.blogspot.sg/search?q=moon+lovers).

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 9:28 PM

@Maui - I'm hoping the standoff over THAAD and the Chinese retaliation against k-actors gets resolved soon, but China notwithstanding, the drama is being broadcast across Asia and by the looks of it, is getting a lot of love.

Going by the current tracking, it'll be at 2 billion within a week despite the newest episodes being behind a paywall - those are not numbers that can be ignored or dismissed, and even SBS knows it, given that they apparently tweeted about the China views. I just hope that sinks in to enough people, for Jun-ki's sake, and that this drama doesn't go down as a total failure.

Maui

October 21, 2016 at 8:39 AM

hi @pogo, I'm replying here to a later post on the ratings...."Going by the current tracking, it’ll be at 2 billion within a week despite the newest episodes being behind a paywall – those are not numbers that can be ignored or dismissed, and even SBS knows it, given that they apparently tweeted about the China views. I just hope that sinks in to enough people, for Jun-ki’s sake, and that this drama doesn’t go down as a total failure.", 2 Billion watches is a definite market for this and SBS, would be extremely foolish to just let that pass because the series did not do well in the intended market (Korea)....this happens so frequently with movies, series, and the surprise is when a new market finds interest in your work, that you never foresaw....they opened up a new market for their product here and that is incredibly difficult to do.....I hope they are smart about this and realize they have a franchise in their hands....the first thing they need to do is market this to the international market releasing an unabridged DVD with the series to be sold, uncut scenes and better editing....once they see the response to this and the money starts roling in for the DVD they'll understand what they have in their hands....I think those 2 Billiob viewers need to start making noise and flooding SBS Twitter, instagram and social media requesting this......

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pogo

October 21, 2016 at 10:33 PM

@Maui - I think SBS may just have got it through their heads that this series is very successful abroad and especially in China.

But domestic ratings being at this level means they will never turn it into a franchise, and I certainly don't see any of the cast returning for it given how the production basically screwed them all over. A coherent, well-produced, (preferably with a revised soundtrack), properly-edited cut of the series we have now would be a dream come true though.

Piggie

October 22, 2016 at 7:00 PM

I just read that ratings in other parts of Asia (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, M'sia, S'pre) for Scarlet Heart is actually out of this world. In one or two of them, even beating DOTS. In all of these mentioned countries it totally beats Moonlight, sometimes by 60% !!! Don't know about Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia.

Only in Korea it bombs (Really?). I believe SBS only buys the show. All these shows are usually made by private production companies.

Since it's so popular and also a simulcast, when two episodes were disrupted, there's an uproar online. So I guess my earlier comment about ending it quickly in Korea & preventing another uproar from overseas is proven.

Hopefully it's a little comfort for the actors' hard work. I'm sure they cannot ignore overseas market anymore.

Another article also mentions how LJK presence just over-powers the other actors, esp. less experienced Baek Hyun & IU.

I can't wait for the series to end so that I can know the ending & live a normal life again :)

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Maui

October 23, 2016 at 9:18 AM

@pogo, @piggie, ...I've been reading the comments on youtube after they posted the article about Lee Jun Ki's article saying how dissapinted he felt in the ratings...and how he was feeling responsible for the poor ratings....the comments that flooded this on youtube are unbelievable...basically it boils down to no one internationally cares about Korean ratings, and from Saudi Arabia, to Australia, The USA, Malaysia, Indonesia, The Phillipines, India...etc,etc,etc....this series is a complete addiction, all these people around the world are basically blown away by the quality of the production, costumes, music, acting, cast.....one person commented something like....Korea is a small country , you managed to conquer worldwide ratings with this...the whole world is captivated by this Korean production and most people wrote they never even knew who Lee Ji Kun was before this, but they'll never forget him now, he's now associated as the top Korean talent by those that are watching the series....the audience that was captivated by this is not their intended audience, but my goodness what an accolate to this production to elevate Korean Dramas to this level worldwide, everyone should feel extremely proud that the world is stopping and taking notice...that speaks volumes to this production has beat most other Korean ones worldwide...@pogo, as you said the cast might not return, and a second part might not be in the making, but it absolutely does not take away what they managed with this version....

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pogo

October 23, 2016 at 12:46 PM

@Maui - it could have been a lot better but I'm glad SBS is actually registering that it did well overseas.

youku view count is at 1.944 billion as I type, Scarlet Heart is going to hit the 2 billion view count within 24 hours of the episode 17 coming out.

107 Barbrey

October 19, 2016 at 11:38 PM

I'm perfectly happy with Su going back to Korea and meeting up with a reincarnated Wang So, but a lot of people objected because they want So to retain his memories of her.

So I got to thinking about how that might be accomplislhed. There have been a number of departures in this version, one of the main ones being the presence of Ji Mong at the water in modern Korea. His presence, and his story, seem to tell us there was a soul switch. Someone from modern Korea's soul somehow slipped into a previous 5 year old incarnation in ancient Goryeo. Ji Mong's soul but a straight switch in timeline. I mean Ji Mong says he died and came back but it looks like so did the previous incarnation of Ji Mong into his future body.

I don't hold out much hope this will happen to Su - I don'tthink original Hae Su is in Ha Jin's body, or if she is it's only for the space of time the eclipse in modern Korea takes to complete. Nine years in Goryeo equals a few minutes in Korea maybe.

But doesn't this give us a slight hope that the same thing can happen to Wang So? What if Su doesn't just 'die' in Goryeo - I mean what if during an eclipse Su is pushed or falls into water. Wang So has a choice - to keep the throne or dive in after her?

If he dives in and holds her, couldn't another soul switch happen? Especially if, in modern Korea, it's a reincarnation of Wang So that jumps in to save Ha Jin.

This kind of leaves poor modern Wang So and original Hae Su to flounder around in Goryeo but the good part is they don't even know each other. And I've come to kind of believe that original Hae Su's fate in that timeline in Goryeo was to love Wook, not So, whereas Ha Jin's was to love So in the future. That's why there were two loves. The same soul but different fates according to when they were born. That's why Su gets mixed up.

I fear the drama will follow the original closely. But whatever it is, she will return to the present.

When she goes back to the present, she retains all her memories of Goryeo.

Meanwhile, back in Goryeo, So reigns as king, calls out to her on his death bed, like his father did to Lady Oh, and dies.

So is reborn again in the modern world as average Joe-So.

They meet again, somewhere beneath the stars. She remembers him.

The question here is, will he remember her?

I want him to.

I want the last episode to be about how she goes back to the present, her struggles to re-adapt, and her meeting up with him again.

I don't want the reunion to last the remaining hurried 10 minutes of the drama.

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Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 1:10 AM

Yes, the most likely ending (though no memories for So) but I was trying to find an alternative I'd find more satisfying. The novel ends with the Su character just dying. The c-version ends with the Su character back in the present and the So character just passes her by because they're strangers, ie. there's a little bit of hope she'll reconnect with him but it won't really be him, and actually she might not ever meet him again.

We've been promised a happy ending so I don't see them going for either of these. The ending you've proposed is the one I see most likely (as well as a remeeting with one or more of the reincarnated princes), but if So doesn't have his memories it's a bit of a let down. I also hope, btw, with you that it lasts more than just a few minutes.

But with MY ending:

Ha Jin ends up with Wang So from the past, memories intact, and this is COMPLETELY in line with the predestination paradox, it just continues on from Goryeo.

Original Hae Su ends up not with Wook (as was fated if Ha Jin hadn't intervened and he became horrible), but married to Jung, who was always more age appropriate for 16 year old Hae Su than 25 year old Ha Jin.

Modern Wang So, who wasn't fated for anyone, ends up in Goryeo married to Yeon Hwa and is known to be a king ahead of his time in his reforms.

The little boy in the pool is a reincarnation of Eun, Ji Mong's soul (if not his history) is there in the homeless man, and maybe Seon Dook is the girl with the hula hoop.

This picture is complete except for Baek Ah (please god not Woo Hee), Lady Hae and Lady Oh, so who knows they might show up in some form too.

End.

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YY

October 20, 2016 at 2:04 AM

Love your alternate ending. Everyone's happy.

Woo Hee ends up in Subway. She's exchanged her swords for knives, and is especially adept at hurling onions in the air and dicing them mid-air.

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 2:17 AM

I'm just going to hang on to this as we head into the final weeks (no seriously I'm petrified of just what this show is going to do to them).

Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 3:33 AM

God, what a visual! Hilarious!

pigsnout

October 20, 2016 at 2:32 AM

Imagine her and her swords cutting onions..... but seriously we don't need to see more of her. Find Baek Ah a nice modern girl instead.

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Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 2:51 AM

Modern Baek-ha ends up being the newest member of EXO.

pigsnout

October 20, 2016 at 8:35 PM

Lol Baekah as Exo member

He should actually join them, they lost so many members they probably need a replacement by now.

Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 2:48 AM

Modern Chae Ryung is convicted for poisoning her boss, Assemblyman Won, who was also indicted for human trafficking.

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pigsnout

October 20, 2016 at 8:38 PM

Freaking Chae Ryung and Won, I want to reach through the screen and slap both of them

If they were in politics in real life, I would be one of those protesters who goes to their meetings and throws shoes at them.

channel

October 23, 2016 at 7:36 AM

@pigsnout, I second the motion!

Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 3:50 AM

I want something really good for Wang Mu. I forgot about him. What do you think, Yoyo?

I don't want Won, Wook or Chae Ryung reincarnated unless CR is their boss and makes them submit to the utmost humiliation.

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Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 4:28 AM

Wang Mu ends up being modern day Wang So's brother who happens to be the present day Defense Secretary working in the Blue House.

Modern day Lady Hae ends up in a noona relationship with present day Baek-ha while Modern day Lady Oh is married to present day Taejo who owns one of the biggest conglomerates in Seoul.

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 5:53 AM

@Yoyo - I favour the noona relationship for Baek-ah myself, it stays consistent with canon and we don't have to deal with Woo-hee.

And to add to our modern-day Taejo/Lady Oh union, modern-Su works at the cosmetics division of their conglomerate (all conglomerates have one) and ends up being mentored by Lady Oh who sees her as the daughter she never had. And meets Lady Oh's stepson, Wang So, while she's there.

Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 6:36 AM

Wait, Mu or Wang So? I'd love to see our Wang So inhabiting modern Wang So's body (without scars, weird), first day at work out of Goryeo and he's Defense Secretary - missiles and tanks and computers. Now that's what I'd call a steep learning curve.

But Mu? True, he was good on the battlefield, but I see him in a more middling job, the friendly suburbia neighbour who's always good for a lawn tool loan. A fireman, I think, because in that deleted scene he saved Wang So from those burning arrows.

And yes, Baek Ah and Lady Hae!

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 6:40 AM

I thought future Defense Secretary would be So. He'd suit the part too, he takes the military seriously because he's actually spent time (beyond the mandatory two years) in it/.

I think Mu wouldn't make a bad President actually, but then he might not be able to work with So as his Def. Sec. since people would assume nepotism.

Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 7:42 AM

I always thought Mu was a good fighter as per Taejo and Ji-mong.

We'll just have modern day Mu as a Judo teacher that trained Modern day Wang So before he became the Defense Secretary. And yes, Goryeo Wang So inhabited modern day Wang So's body!

Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 7:49 AM

And modern day Queen SMS ends up being a has-been news anchor divorcee who is struggling to live with her ex-husbands ex-wife for the love of their daughter, who by the way happens to be modern day Yeon Hwa. The other queen (wooks mom) is actually the ex wife of modern day queen sms' ex husband.

*wink,wink* see what I did there?

kumoiwa

October 20, 2016 at 7:53 AM

@Yoyo: Goryeo Incarnate. I can see it now ;)

Yoyo

October 20, 2016 at 8:05 AM

@kumoiwa

Ding, Dong, Deng! Goryeo Incarnate is right!

See what this show is doing to us?!!

Maui

October 20, 2016 at 9:41 AM

I'm laughing so hard at all your possible modern day scenarios...this is great!!.....Soo ends up working with an International film company who specializes on historical films as a make-up artist....she travels the world to exotic film locations, and rides camels and watches oceans in her spare time....

amisyka77

October 20, 2016 at 4:48 PM

OMGGGG!!
Goryeo Incarnate.
I loveeeeeee this!
You guys are geniusssss!!!
ROTFL

pigsnout

October 20, 2016 at 8:44 PM

I really, really love the idea of Goryeo Incarnate.

vip

October 20, 2016 at 11:08 PM

Moon Lovers 2 : Goryeo Incarnate

hahaha

Lemon Meringue

October 20, 2016 at 11:08 PM

Awesome!

And for modern day So and Soo, I keep picturing LJK and IU from their Cosmo spread; him all smoldering, sexy, tanned and lean, and she feminine, fresh-face and lovely.

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 11:25 PM

@Lemon Meringue - I LOVE that shot of them. That was what really convinced me they could and would work out as the OTP despite the age gap (and I think it pretty accurately captured her chemistry with both LJK and KHN as they actually were in the drama).

like IU looks young but she has a gravitas to her that matches Jun-ki's intensity really well, especially especially after the time jump when she's older and more subdued. Though I loved them when they were young and new to the palace and best buddies too.

Lemon Meringue

October 22, 2016 at 1:55 AM

@Pogo, ikr? For me, the shoot sells LJK/Wang So's protective and possessive instincts towards IU/Soo, with the way his body is turned towards her and how his arms are always wrapped around her. Even the fact that he's clearly older than her works; his experience, sophistication and intensity plays off her innocence and femininity. Sizzling UST.

channel

October 23, 2016 at 7:40 AM

I saw that the original C-version had season 2 that's why they ended their season 1 with C-Hae Soo returning to modern day and having modern day C-Wang So pass her by.

Season 2 opens with all of the characters reincarnated in the modern times.

Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 12:17 AM

I loved all these ideas for our modern Goreyeans! And love yours Maui for Su with those lines about camels and oceans right out of the series.

I've tried to put myself in the shoes of the writer all the way along, and I know if it were me I'd be coming up with something original. But I can't remember how other endings went in these kinds of tales. Anyone?

WARNING - possible spoilers for other shows below

I've only seen a few:

Rooftop Prince: he goes back to his time, she stays and meets his reincarnation (this is the one my money's on)

Queen In Hyun's Man: can't remember. Anyone fill me in?

Nine Times Travel: never saw it

Hong Gil Dong: not time travel but mythic - they all die but he haunts modern Korea and sees her? Or is this Gu Family Book?

W - we're not quite sure, he seems to have come into her world intact but don't know if that's a weird fairytale add-on

Arang and the Magistrate: they're reborn as children, don't drink the forgetting potion so have memories of each other? Something like that

Any others? I know I've seen the reincarnation one like Rooftop Prince a few times in kdramas and North American books for that matter.

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LYF

October 21, 2016 at 5:34 PM

In Queen Inhyun's Man, he manages to time travel back to the present, and rejoin the girl

Lucifermeo

October 20, 2016 at 8:27 AM

Maybe I'm greedy but I am really liking how So is shaping up to be a good emperor right there with all the talks about slavery and making real positive changes in the country. So I actually wanted him to finish his rule (or at least most of reforms) as himself and when when he dies (maybe while resting on that beautiful boat) he will be transported to the future present time inside present Wang So body, who is of course in the midst of rescuing a certain Go Hajin (our HS who just 'died' in Goryeo decades before WS) from drowning. That way WS is still himself and HS still retains her Goryeo memory, but all the extra years that WS had mourning for her may make for an interesting dynamic between them. Otherwise, I would just hate to see reincarnated WS who is absolutely clueless and HS who remembers everything. This trope just feels so unfair for the modern WS, who has no idea he is loved because of someone else ...

Oh, how I just want to have my cake and eat it too.

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pigsnout

alasecond

October 23, 2016 at 8:08 PM

If the kid HS jumped in waer to save before being sent back in time is WS :P in modern times

bummer!

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108 the-basketcase

October 19, 2016 at 11:39 PM

I love this show with all its misgivings (for some strange reason),

October 20, 2016 at 1:21 AM

Yeah, this is just what we were talking about upthread. I'm totally with you. What's more, I think they wrote it in, maybe even filmed it, but it got scrapped, because how did Su end up with that hairpin? Couldn't there have been a confession scene of some kind, where she says she does have feelings for him but isn't ready, on the day she is she'll wear his pin? Aargh.

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 2:22 AM

@Barbrey - exactly, how does that hairpin find its way back into Su's hands?

I can live with not being explicitly told that Su wearing So's hairpin is the sign that she returns his love (heck we all knew it without being told, this show has made it clear through more than one woman that wearing something gifted to you is basically a green light for a romantic interest), but I'm pretty sure Su didn't actually keep the hairpin the first time and they could have just shown how it went back to her.

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Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 3:58 AM

The last time we saw it before this scene she had given it back to So.

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 4:10 AM

Aaaagh continuity!

And now it looks like we'll have to keep an eye out for baseball next week too, smh. I don't know if my heart can take having only one episode next week too.

Barbrey

October 20, 2016 at 5:25 AM

Head over to soompi just to see the running narrative about the baseball game. Honestly, I laughed so hard it was some compensation for the cancelled episode. Madrua knows her baseball and you can feel her anguish when anyone gets on base, drawing the game out longer. Lol!

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 5:55 AM

If someone had told me two months ago that I'd be anxiously refreshing a web page waiting for someone's account of a baseball match, I'd have laughed at them.

pogo

October 20, 2016 at 6:04 AM

Also why does it have to be baseball?! :(

If only it was football, we'd have no problems - the game gets over in 90 minutes/2-2.5 hours tops even if they go into extra time and penalties :/

Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 12:25 AM

@pogo - at least I can understand the narrative about baseball but football would lose me.

pogo

October 21, 2016 at 12:59 AM

@Barbrey - oops I should have clarified - I mean football as in what's known in the US as soccer, not the US football where people wear helmets and carry the ball.

LYF

October 21, 2016 at 5:37 PM

@pogo and Barbrey

The last I heard about the baseball match, it will be broadcasted on SBS Sports instead, meaning we'll get our ep 17 on Monday :D

(source: https:// twitter.com/melloviciousiu/status/ 788946179258093568)

No idea if there were any changes since then though.

PakalanaPikake

October 22, 2016 at 9:27 AM

Live blogging the baseball game over at Soompi, what a concept! I had to get an eyeful... It was great. (I can't get over the 1,400+ pages of posts for MOON LOVERS. Sheesh.)

I could almost hear the late, great New York Yankees announcer, Phil "The Scooter" Rizzuto, calling the plays. He calls the plays in this classic tale of teenage angst, starting at 3:35...

Paradise by the Dashboard Light - Meatloaf, Lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MHSI_Z1MWw

Time to tune in to STRIKE LOVE, or maybe TWO OUTS IN THE BOTTOM OF THE NINTH? I enjoyed both. ;-)

Hey, annoying as it was to miss out on one episode last week, it could have been much worse... THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK-HYANG was pre-empted by the Sochi Olympics and the year-end holidays. 12 episodes chopped, too...

109 Flightey Gazelles

October 20, 2016 at 2:51 AM

OMG @YY bwahahahahaha!!!!!
*dead*

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110 Johan

October 20, 2016 at 3:54 AM

my prayers were answered.?
no more postponement, it is so stressful.

http://en.yibada.com/articles/168621/20161020/moon-lovers-scarlet-heart-ryeo-episode-17-confirmed-air-oct.htm#ixzz4NcWYpB8A

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111 pogo

112 kumoiwa

October 20, 2016 at 5:00 AM

If anyone wants to join us at our group chat: https://hangouts.google.com/group/2q4dl0zOjmUPvZ323

Welp

October 20, 2016 at 11:12 PM

I was wondering about that, too :O

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Lemon Meringue

LYF

October 20, 2016 at 9:30 PM

That's the thing, I don't think she has returned it yet. Which is weird considering it's been a loooong time since they broke up (at least 4 years?)

As for the hairpin, like what pogo said, the best we can hope for is a director's cut that explains all these. Until then no one knows -.-

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 9:51 PM

At least give us a scene showing Su putting the bracelet away like she did with Wook's poem earlier! (and getting So's hairpin back while she's at it)

Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 12:29 AM

More missing scenes leading to flawed continuity. I'm a beta reader for a couple of high profile fantasy writers and these are things I would have caught for sure. Just.So.Amateur - and even the amateurs like myself are saying so!

Napkiin

October 20, 2016 at 9:36 PM

Can we even call that a bracelet? It looked like charm bracelet a 15 year old made

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 9:50 PM

well, it was made of jade which was a precious stone in those times.

The bracelet was simple because anything to ornamented and fancy would have attracted unwanted attention when Soo wore it, and since it was Wook who gifted it, we know it had it's own subterfuge just like Wook. Wook is not about being out in the open about things...unlike So, who pretty much advertised his intentions....."I hold your heart", period everyone else backoff...

LYF

October 21, 2016 at 5:41 PM

I myself have nothing against pale green jade, but that red string is Not a Good Look

pogo

October 21, 2016 at 10:25 PM

@LYF - were they going for a Red String of Fate bit of imagery?

and yeah, neither component appeals to me, aesthetics-wise.

Napkiin

October 21, 2016 at 12:07 PM

Yeah! At first I was like what the heck is this? A cheap red string with some jade ornament on it? Please Wook, you need to find a better jewelry shop.

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Maui

October 21, 2016 at 5:33 PM

LOL.....

Isabelle

October 22, 2016 at 3:22 AM

I think the red string and jade combo is a very common ornamentation in Asian cultures! Or at least I know its fairly commonplace as a bracelet amongst the chinese (e.g. some youths wear it for luck. as a token. etc.) so I'm assuming it's a similar thing it's meant to be quite understated I think

PakalanaPikake

October 22, 2016 at 10:25 AM

@pogo, @cherryarrow,

For what it's worth, I recently watched a dandy drama from 2006, ALONE IN LOVE. In the opening, there's a motif of a tangled ball of red thread extending between the OTP... who are distant from each other. In the course of the story, the ex-husband, who works in a bookstore, reads to his girlfriend's little daughter about how the Man in the Moon ties a red string to each person's finger when they are going to be born so they can find their destined love at the other end... or words to that effect. It was late in the show, but finally explained this strange motif that looked like kitty had gotten into the knitting bag -- except they didn't have a cat.

With regard to Hae-Su's jade bracelet, it sure looks like the Auspicious Red String of Fate to me.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that jade is associated with longevity, too.

117 vip

October 20, 2016 at 10:58 PM

I remember, in the 6min trailer, Hae Soo said:

If we had met in a different time and place, how wonderful would that have been ?

Could it be a hint that they will meet in Modern times ?

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pogo

October 20, 2016 at 11:28 PM

oh noooo don't give me hope :(

October 21, 2016 at 12:08 PM

I feel like anybody who reads articles from yibada about MLSHR should take it as a grain of salt. I'm always skeptical about the stuff they write.

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118 LYF

October 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM

I still can't believe we only have 4 episodes left. That's.... 2 weeks?

October 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM

Wow, there is 997 comments at the point of me typing this. This episode seem to have more jarring differences between the international and SBS version. MEatime, by now, everyone would have said all I needed to say.

One highlight is why is LJK again rocking a guyliner in a sageuk. And did people in those times really pierce their earlobes as I see the King has earrings.

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LYF

October 21, 2016 at 5:45 PM

Haha! Well at least he does rock the eyeliner. \^O^/

October 21, 2016 at 10:19 AM

There can only be one reason to return to its regular scheduling: SBS wants to end it quickly b'cos of the dismal ratings AND it doesn't want to upset simulcast viewers.

Hey, I'm not complaining.

Besides, that Moon-Cloud series ended so it might help capture some viewers. The ratings on Ep-16 was dismal perhaps coincidentally because Moon-Cloud series ended that day too. Koreans have a strange affection for final episode, it seems.

I can see that the actors gave their best. If only they don't just get one side of the story -- i.e. domestic viewership -- but also international viewership, then they won't be so discouraged. Hopefully they also know that one bombed show does not make a bad actor/actress. Even Rain has a 2.3% rating show (I don't like Rain BTW).

***
I don't mind a happy ending, of sorts, even as I was anticipating a sad one. Maybe the script included a "happy" ending to lead to a possible sequel but since the ratings were not ideal ... I don't think so.

The Chinese version did that, I watched it on youtube out of curiosity -- the first 10 episodes in full, but finished the remaining 12 in 1 day by fast forwarding to skip redundant scenes ... WHILE TRYING HARD NOT TO SLASH MY WRIST!!! Talk about writing a sequel for the heck of it, HUMPH!

****
A few earlier posts mention the symbolism of blowing out the wax candle. I can tell you that many Chinese shows will umm...lights out on the candles on wedding nights ... so use your imagination to fill in the blanks.

I suppose like Wang So said to Yeon Hwa: "She's mine." And like Hae Soo said to Wook: "He will take everything that belongs to you if you obstruct him." One down, one to go.

****
My guess is Woo Hee will kill herself, in order not to create trouble for Baek Ah.

I never thought that at this point with all the tragedies & separations, the show can make me laugh again. But when Ji Mong describes how the monk was freakishly struck by lightning and becomes toast in front of the king, I could not stop laughing.

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straws

October 21, 2016 at 10:24 AM

If Woo Hee kill herself, it will be similar like c-bbjx, right?

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Piggie

October 21, 2016 at 7:35 PM

Yes, but under a different context. The C-BBJX one is b'cos she didn't want to be a burden to 13th prince since she was a gisaeng.

Seems like Wang So will become ruthless in flushing out the bad apples. Woo Hee spies for Yo. A Chinese synopsis describes that Baek Ah & Woo Hee's love will bring about disastrous consequences.

Prince #9 was warned by Wang So after being injured by the arrow: "Be careful, you! (I'm so going to whoop your ass when I become king!!)

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123 selene

October 21, 2016 at 11:39 AM

BEWARE this is going to be a very long post.

This episode is very interesting because there are so many layers in the two most prominent conversations between our OTP. I see various opinions about these two, so I think I would just share mine.

1) The breakup conversation
The only reason he broke up with her is because he wanted to RELEASE her from being his collar. Not because the trust issue (the fact that she wrote the letter and how she told him she trusted him was enough for him), also never for the throne. It was all about protecting her from anyone including himself.

So: ”It seems I must become a dog that kills, a dog that bites its owner and takes over its owner’s home. I will become a rabid wolf dog.”

Well done, nicely said Selene!

Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 4:28 PM

In the summary for the drama, it explicitly says she's a 25 year old who finds herself in the body of 16 year old.

I've always felt from that that Su will likely remain in Goryeo for nine years, until aged up to 25 from 16. Just a hunch for the sake of symmetry. She's there in Taejo's reign for a little over a year, maybe 2, Mu for two, and Yo for 3 or 4, leaving her to spend two or three years - the most peaceful part of Gwangjong's reign - with So. Maybe!?!

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Maui

October 21, 2016 at 6:24 PM

@Barbrey, it's interesting because in the early shows they mention she's 14 a few times....So tells her in the boat when he's sleeping and she almost falls off, "you're young yet talk as if you know so muc of the world..."... it's the reason all the Prince's freak out when she's offered in marriage to Taejo....one even mentions well she's within marriagable age now...counting the clock back...3 years of Yo's reign, Two years of Mu's , one year as a laundry lady, one or two years before that in 8th Prince's house and the Daminwon with court lady oh...Am I missing something here?

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Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM

I never saw it mentioned anywhere that she was fourteen in the subtitles. Are you sure? Maybe in a version I didn't see?

In the c-drama, I believe she's supposed to be 14, but every summary I've seen of the k-drama says she's 16.

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pogo

October 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM

Korean age adds a year to what we'd understand as our ages (you're 1 year old at birth, and then gain a year at the new year so a baby born in November of this year would be "2 years old" on next New Year's Day according to Korean age systems), so it's possible Su would be 15 (and 16 in Korean age, which I assume is the one taken as reference in all the synoposes)

Maui

October 22, 2016 at 5:03 PM

@Barbrey, you're probably right on that...I'm not sure where I picked up 14.....it's been in my head from the start....but she has been in Goryeo for at least 6 years....

Maui

October 21, 2016 at 6:16 PM

@Seltzerwater, "Maybe we can rely on HS to understand the importance of having a King who values the life of his people"...if you are referencing that last line in this episode, that was my thought process as well...I thought Soo should speak up an ask if he would still be willing to back out of becoming King....I found it a fair question. Soo's entire experience with the throne since arriving in Goryeo is anything the throne gives you in power it asks back for in sacrifice....but when So's eyes lit up talking about the people who needed him, and how a different King will change Goryeo....Soo went truly quiet....So truly wants it not for himself but for his people too....and Soo is the kind of person who does things and actions based on conviction, just like So....my feeling is that HS is a person who values people much more than many of the royals including Yeon Hwa. She herself is part of the common people because she was raised in modern times. Yeonwha has been a Princess her whole life and for her the commoners are common. It's the main reason I think HS will support So, and one of the reasons she would make an awesome Queen too.

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Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 8:07 PM

I'm just the slightest bit skeptical about So ever becoming "for the people" on the evidence we've seen so far. There was an area of ambiguity in the palace building convo. Yes, he asked for more supplies for the slaves working on the palace, but we find out later he was probably the one responsible for the lack of supplies because he was drawing out the process of building by filling bricks with sand. When Woo Hee said that, I thought to myself, well Yo might have sent supplies for the duration of the palace building but they've been so slowed down by the building sabotage they've run out of those supplies.

There are also areas of ambiguity in the real history of Gwangjong. Freeing slaves was primarily to centralize and give more support to the royal family as opposed to the nobles. Same with the civil servant exams - to pull power away from the nobles and towards the monarchy. So while the common people were given some freedoms, that was more a by-product of centering control in the royal family.

Just playing devil's advocate here because I thought it was an odd choice by the drama to show us So seemingly advocating for slaves, and then undermining that advocacy by showing us he himself was probably causing the problem in efforts to destabilize Yo's kingship.

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selene

October 22, 2016 at 4:56 AM

About the ambiguity of So regarding the slaves, I wanna share my thought.

So: We are lacking in manpower. We do not have enough supplies so people work one day and rest the next.
Yo: If you don't have enough manpower, do not let them sleep. If you're lacking supplies, get them by stealing if you need to.
WH: Prince WS is scheming with some of the Songak clans and is deliberately stalling the construction of the new capital. He mixed gravel so the walls fell and let some of the workers go.

It's obvious that Yo didn't care about the slaves condition to begin with so probably they really did lack of manpower and supplies. I think the first thing that happened is So arrived and felt sympathy toward the slaves so he decided to liberate some of them. The way WH said it in one sentence makes me think that the act of mixing the gravel (so the walls fell), was So's attempt to fabricate a reason to "fire" the slaves and let them go (you know, like firing the workers because they fail to do their job). This resulted in further lack of manpower. He also let them had one day rest, which further explained the slowing of the construction. So yes, he was the one responsible for stalling of the construction and Yo actually had every right to blame him. But he really did that out of compassion for the slave and not for some political reason.

At the same time though, his compassionate act drew some political benefits as well, even if it was never his intention at the first place. The slaves would definitely support him now and yes, he indirectly had caused destabilization in Yo's kingship.

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Maui

October 22, 2016 at 6:31 AM

@Selene, thank you for flushing out the details on this, I think I agree....we know So is not some person who doesn't care when other's get bullied....remember that scene where Yo is bullying BaeKah and So stands up for him.....it's the start of their relationship...so I think So is a person that cares about the conditions people live in, therefore your post makes sense Selene, yes there's political gain for him, but it isn't the sole motivation. I'm sharing a long post I wrote earlier on comment 28 in this episode about the slaves....Starting at post 28, @LemonMeringue,pogo,Barbrey,Seltzerwater,Yoyo,E….Agree with your feelings and comments…@E “He didn’t say he stopped loving her,(EP. 16 Hs/So breakup) but that his feelings for her had changed:….” just wanted to add that his feelings changing can have many interpretations….his feeling for Soo?, his feelings about the throne?….his feelings about who he wants to be in the future?…etc….it begs the question what feelings changed for So?We understand he left because it was necessary to protect everyone, HS, himself, brothers, etc… and break the cycle they are all trapped in….we understand destiny calls him now, and So has matured….but have his feelings for Soo really changed?….or has he gained new priorites in the process?….what is it we want from So? Most importantly what does Soo want from So?….should there love remain forever one dimensional…So will do anything for Soo and nothing else will have any priorities in his life…ever. I wish we could have had Soo leave the palace and see the suffering of the people (slaves) working to build the castle, alongside So…women and children slaving away to death…families torn apart to work….people maimed and injured to complete a freaking building for the Royal family to live in comfort…all this suffering to build a bathhouse like Daminwon built on the blood of children…knowing Soo’s character and how she cares about people she would be the first to push So to do something….in fact she might just strap on the armor on herself and storm the castle….I said it in an earlier post, that YeonWha is a royal princess and raised to see the common people as common, just pawns to reach her goals and aspirations, that’s the kind of Queen she will become, but Soo is different. She has been raised in a modern world context where common people are human beings with rights . The people aren’t common to her, and that is why she would make an awesome Queen for So. If there is one person who will back him up in this endeavour at the cost of their own happiness it is loyal Soo. If both of them are willing to sacrifice this much for each other has love between them really become less or has it just matured to a different stage…the husband/wife love stage of love…and that my friends is what makes this love story EPIC.

130 Piggie

October 21, 2016 at 7:45 PM

Oh No! I saw a synopsis on Ep-17 already!!

It's in Chinese, sorry. I know it's true b'cos past episode synopsis are accurate, even if the sequence is a bit weird. It's rather brief though.

I think you mean Queen H -- Yeon Hwa & Wook's mother. I saw that one on Dramafever -- 2 lines only, so stingy! And such a teaser!

If enough people wants it, I can translate. I don't mind sharing, as some of you have been generous. But I also don't want to upset people who likes the suspense. Cheers.

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132 Barbrey

October 21, 2016 at 9:38 PM

Maybe post it on the last Open Thread with a spoiler warning? We're allowed to post anything on that. I'll definitely go over there to read it!

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Piggie

October 21, 2016 at 11:22 PM

Here it is -- I sacrificed 2 hours of sleep to organize & type so if the spoilers spoils your day, it's not my fault.

Open Thread #470, Page 2.
Either search for "Piggie" or look for #61.

Thanks @Barbrey & @PakalanaPikake for the clarification. The actual words are "Hwang Bo" clan. I suppose Hae clan did restore them but Hwang Bo strengthens their power over the years leading up to GwangJeong, thus the inevitable marriage.

The timeline between Hae Soo + Wang So’s slumber-party AND Wang So becoming King is 2 years. I don’t think it takes that long for Hae Soo to become pregnant (like Ruoxi did in C-BBJX) – I mean she’s not a panda bear.

But I still believe (purely my speculation) that Hae Soo will become pregnant, thus make it impossible to leave King So, adding to the torture. She's not married to him, Queen Yeon Hwa will make her life difficult, she hates polygamy, and she cannot just leave since she bears the King's child. Besides, “Beware of the 4th prince” – these crucial words in C-BBJX hasn’t boomerang back to Hae Soo yet…

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133 zkiya

October 22, 2016 at 2:44 AM

even already know YH will marry So, i still cant accept it. watching kdrama suppose to entertain me but this kdrama make me stress, but still watching it...

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Maui

October 22, 2016 at 7:47 AM

@Zkiya, if I'm honest with myself..this will be the hardest thing to accept moving forward....but will also raise important questions about the meaning of love.

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zkiya

October 22, 2016 at 10:06 AM

@maui yes, i agree with you... I don't know what will i do in the free time after ML finish, too addicted with this drama... TT_TT

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Piggie

October 22, 2016 at 7:08 PM

You could try Legend of the Blue Seas It should start after Jealousy Incarnate. Commands a fee even higher than DOTS. Written by the same person who wrote My Love From the Stars.

I probably won't watch it till it ends. I need my sleep -- am losing it over Scarlet Heart already. Ha ha.

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zkiya

October 23, 2016 at 2:32 AM

yeah, i dont think any drama can replace ML for me. but i will try to watch it because its Jun Jihyun!!

140 Duk Seon

October 23, 2016 at 11:09 AM

I'm sorry I'm late but please answer me. (Do I sound too desperate? I'm sorry) This is really driving me nuts I don't get it. THERE'S THREE (3) VERSIONS? WHAT?! asdfghhjkl qksjfhakaldk So I read you'll know that it's Youku version if there's chinese subs, but what I watched seemed like the international version (because of the deleted scenes) but it still has chinese subs? So what did I watch? International? Chinese version?

I watch and download from dramafire.

I hate this. This is so frustrating. Why should there be three versions? I hope and pray they just release a complete and uncut dvd so I can watch this in peace.

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Celia Tan

October 23, 2016 at 11:43 AM

There's 3 versions apparently one is SBS, the other two are for international and chinese versions. SBS is different because they edited it before airing, the other two wasn't edited because of translations. That's what I've read in the article I mentioned before.

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Piggie

October 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM

My opinion is different judging from an article I read (it's a simulcast, so all contents should be the same & I doubt it has to do with translation):

Oct 17: Baseball overrun, SBS didn't show Ep-16. China didn't get the memo fast enough & broadcasted Ep-16 (oops). Some referred to it as "leaked".

News spread fast in the internet age. If I were a Korean audience, I'd be hopping mad. How to soothe your domestic viewers, give them exclusive footage of course.

For instance: Su-So back-hug, King Yo + Woo Hee convo + more Su-So kissing.

As for why reshuffle Baek-Ah/Jimong/General/Wang-So convo -- who knows?

Axed on SBS:
Jung's reward from King Yo - I consider it crucial for the story's development. But it can always be included later as a flashback.

Axed on other versions:
Woo Hee + King Yo convo - it tells me she spies for King Yo & might hurt her relationship with Baek Ah as well as her own fate, esp. after Wang So becomes King. So to exclude this is...hmmm.

***
It frustrates other viewers, but personally, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

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Celia Tan

October 23, 2016 at 10:47 PM

I think it goes beyond that since I've read somewhere that the changes between the different versions are spread out among all the episodes not just the ones that were delayed.

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141 JoseMiro

October 23, 2016 at 4:28 PM

14 hrs to eps 17 ... can't wait

Read a lot of spoiler, still cut, speculation, not good for my heart.. not good at all .. but can't resist though.. (my bad)

Anyway.. without those spoilers, we, the fans, pretty much has speculated it all from every possible angle .. so no surprise there ..

okay..sorry for the rant.. just can't keep it by myself

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Celia Tan

October 23, 2016 at 10:48 PM

I can relate! lol

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142 Illa

October 23, 2016 at 5:57 PM

I just assumed that Yo was going crazy because of Wook doing something.

I'm getting really confused by all of the different versions floating around. Some of the missing/added scenes make for really big changes.

The version I saw didn't have the scene with Woo-hee being revealed as a spy, and had the General demand So give up something before it showed So goes to break up with Su. It also included two extra scenes with Jung:
One where Yo promises Jung anything he'd like as a reward for securing the borders, and heavily implies Jung asks for Su's hand in marriage. This suspicion thickens with the second scene, when Jung attempts to visit Su, who has snuck out, to speak with her about something 'important', but is blocked by Su's friend who claims Su is ill and contagious.

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143 maya2825

October 23, 2016 at 11:38 PM

few more hours to episode 17. Waiting for an impending doom is never fun. This drama is cray-cray! Please, just let So&Soo have a sweet moment for a little while before all hell break loose.

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144 p1nky

October 24, 2016 at 1:24 AM

I'm sorry but can anyone please tell me from which episode is the scene that shows Prince So asks for Soo's permission to kiss her but Soo rejected him by pushing his lips away ? This is when Prince So was reminiscing his relationship with Soo by the river, before The Evil King shoots them with an arrow.