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Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 16

by HeadsNo2

There’s only one episode this week due to a pre-emption yesterday, but it certainly is an eventful one. Su has to come to terms with her trust issues this hour, despite some of her visions of the future (in the past) coming true. But the question remains: Is the future she saw one that’s already taken her into account, or is it all just inevitable anyway?

 
EPISODE 16 RECAP

King Jeongjong looks on as Soon-deok valiantly fights to protect her husband, though tenth prince Eun steps in when Soon-deok is wounded. He asks his brother to spare them, but with one look from the king to one of the soldiers, Soon-deok is cut down in an attempt to spare Eun.

Eun crawls over to her with tears in his eyes, and cradles her face as he tells her that everything’s going to be all right. But she passes on, leaving Eun crying and helpless.

It’s then that King Jeongjong takes his bow and fires an arrow straight into Eun. Just before he can fire the other, So jumps into the fight to protect his brother as fourteenth prince Jung and Su arrive to see the scene before them rapidly deteriorate. So tries to fight off the soldiers, but that doesn’t stop Jeongjong from shooting an arrow into Eun’s chest.

So catches Eun before he can fall, and Eun, gasping for air, reminds his older brother of the birthday where So said he’d grant him any gift he wanted. Motioning to Soon-deok, Eun says that he can’t let her go alone, and asks one, final gift of his brother: He wants So to kill him so he can be with his wife, rather than the cruel Jeongjong.

With tears in his own eyes, So slowly raises his sword and cuts Eun down even as Su whispers, “No, you can’t.” It’s the same as it was in her vision, except that So watches in horror as a dying Eun reaches out toward his wife before he joins her in the afterlife.

Jung runs to his brother, urging him to wake up as So struggles even harder to contain his emotions. He breaks and begins to laugh incredulously instead, which fulfills the final part of the vision Su had—except that what she had considered to be victorious laughter is instead something much closer to a sob.

She crumples to the floor in shock as So looks toward her, but he leaves without saying a word. Su flashes back to all her fond memories with Eun as she sits, too shocked to even cry.

Grand General Park has to only look at So’s bloody sword before he goes running to the courtyard to find his precious daughter and son-in-law dead. He cradles the limp form of his daughter as Su continues to look blank, and says with a rueful smile that Soon-deok was the one who wanted to marry Eun, because he was her first love.

He was against it, General Park adds, because he knew this would happen. “Was my Soon-deok very adored by the prince?” he asks. “Very much,” a shell-shocked Su finally replies. “Very, very much. They loved each other.” The general seems soothed by this somewhat, though he cries pitifully as he holds his dead daughter in his arms.

“I’ll kill him,” Jung says, breaking the emotional moment. “I’ll kill Wang So.” Wait—you’re blaming him and not Jeongjong? Su grabs onto his robes and tells him not to do it, because that’s what Eun asked So to do. Jung can only drop his sword and cry out in frustration.

Outside the palace, a still-bloody So tells Astronomer Choi that he thinks he should become the rabid dog-wolf everyone once accused him of being—the king who ends lives, bites his master’s hand, and takes over his master’s house.

As he walks away, he thinks to himself, “I, Wang So, will become King of Goryeo.”

When King Jeongjong relays the news of Eun and Soon-deok’s deaths to Wook, Wook’s hands tighten ever so slightly even as his face remains neutral. Well, at least he still feels something.

That’s when Jeongjong decides to announce his plans to move the capital from Kaesong to Seokyeong, which will make his uncle, Wang Shik-ryeom, happy.

An emotional Baek-ah tells So that they won’t be allowed to mourn for Eun because he was labeled as a traitor, and though he and his wife’s body were thrown outside the palace gates to rot, they were able to give them a secret burial.

So tells Baek-ah about how Eun asked for one last gift from him, and Baek-ah completely understands why So did what he did—he knows that Eun would be thankful. Astronomer Choi interrupts to give So a letter from Su he just found, where she told him that Eun was hiding out at Damiwon.

So finds Su by the river, and despite her running up to him with hope in her eyes, he gives her a hard look. “I must look like a monster in your eyes. I killed Eun.” While Su claims she understands, So asks her why she hid Eun’s secret from him—was she that worried that he would kill Eun if he knew?

Su admits that she was only worried about Eun, and wanted only for he and his wife to escape together safely. “I didn’t realize we could end up hurting each other until it was too late. That was why I left that letter. I trusted you. I know it took some time, but I truly trusted you, enough that I would trust you in any situation,” she adds tearfully.

“But… now I no longer feel that way,” So says. He adds that he won’t be able to disassociate her from what he had to do because she didn’t trust him: “Eun died because of you. I will remember how I had to kill him.” Even when he had to become the king’s dog to save her, his feelings didn’t change. But now, he says coldly, they have.

“Let’s stop,” he says, turning away. But when Su calls him a liar, So gives her a small smile as he amends that they promised never to lie to each other. Ouch.

When So’s alone, however, we see him falter as tears spring to his eyes. Oh, you did lie! And broke your promise! Tsk.

So is rewarded with land by King Jeongjong for his help in executing the traitors, and is sent to see to the construction of new fortresses in the soon-to-be capital of Seokyeong. So commits himself to the royal command in a dead voice.

Jung calls his older brother out for his crimes while simultaneously announcing his plans to travel along the borders to help secure them. King Jeongjong warns him to stay away from the front lines for their mother’s sake, but Jung refuses to acquiesce, claiming that he lived like a coward for too long.

But before he leaves, he drops the two arrow stems they broke off Eun’s body in front of the king as a reminder. As if on cue, Jeongjong hears Eun’s voice as he pleaded for his and his wife’s lives. Fearful now, the king orders that sacrificial food be left for the dead—though he can’t specifically make an altar for Eun and Soon-deok, he might be hoping to calm their ghosts.

Grand General Park sarcastically wishes So prosperity in his new endeavors, especially considering that he gained land and wealth for hunting down and killing his daughter and son-in-law.

However, a flashback reveals that So, Baek-ah, and Astronomer Choi went to see the general, who already knew of So’s desire to become king. General Park also knew that So was born beneath the star of a king, and King Taejo knew it too, which is why he sent So to him to learn martial arts.

So claimed to not believe in such things, but despite that, he fully intended to become king, even if he had to kill for it. General Park reminded him that King Taejo once said that to become king, one had to throw everything else away, so General Park planned to wait and see what So would be willing to give up for the throne.

Cut to Su, the sacrifice So had to make, as Baek-ah tells her that So’s left for Seokyeong and won’t be returning for a long while. She runs out with the hope of catching him before he’s gone, but when she doesn’t, she only says into the air: “I will wait for you.”

And wait she does, as seasons come and go around her. It’s been two years, and Chae-ryung comes with exciting news that someone Su really wants to see has come to the palace.

Su runs to greet the visitor, and barely hides her disappointment when it turns out to be Jung. She manages a small smile as she greets him for the first time in two years, with Jung looking a bit more mature (and now a general) from years spent protecting the borders.

Jung admits that he paid a visit to Eun and Soon-deok’s graves, and that he was worried that Su would’ve left the palace before he returned. He thought she would’ve gotten married by now, but Su says that she plans to work until she retires, and only then will she travel the world.

Baek-ah and Woo-hee get to greet the recently returned Jung, though it’s Jung and Woo-hee’s first meeting. Su introduces her as the highest ranked lady of the gyobang, and Jung recognizes her as the former gisaeng. He says this in order to insult Baek-ah, who he claims keeps bad company—So is another example.

He also accuses Baek-ah of sending a spy to keep an eye on the troops, but it’s only when Jung’s gone that Baek-ah and Woo-hee smile over how “cute” Jung is. And how quick, too—Baek-ah did send a spy, but only because he wanted to know how his brother was doing.

Su’s face loses its smile when Baek-ah asks which room So’s staying in, because he assumed that So was also here. Su hasn’t heard such a thing, but is clearly hopeful/worried.

With enormous dark circles under his eyes, King Jeongjong rings bells and gongs to ward away spirits at a temple, the altar of which is riddled with protective talismans. His concerned mother walks in to ask what he’s decided to do about Jung, and struggles to talk over the loud noises the clearly mad king is making.

Queen Sinmyeongsunseong finally grasps her son’s hands in order to quiet the noise, as she urges Jeongjong to make Jung the crown prince. Jeongjong looks distant as he asks his mother what he is to her—why is he pressuring her to pick a crown prince when he’s not dying anytime soon?

“Does Jung want the throne?” he suddenly asks, causing the queen to slacken her grip. Just then, So comes to give his greetings, and King Jeongjong just laughs that if his mother is so afraid, he’ll just make So the crown prince.

Su and Wook run into each other in the palace, but their encounter is formal and silent. Wook continues on to meet with the king, who’s acting slightly less mad as he berates So for the lack of progress with the fortress in Seokyeong.

So claims that it’s due to a lack of manpower and supplies, but the king chucks a cup at him before threateningly grabbing a nearby Su by the wrist. He tells So to do whatever it takes to get it done as he grabs Su’s wrist ever tighter, and before Jung can intervene, Wook grabs him to stop him.

It’s not until So drops to his knees to apologize for his error that the king slackens his grip, helped in part by Wook suggesting that they discuss this further in private.

Chae-ryung finds Su rewriting the same poem Su once gave her (“Walking until the water’s edge, I sit and watch as clouds rise up and appear”), recognizing the same characters despite her illiteracy.

She knows Su can’t sleep and suggests she go for a walk, and when she does, she finds So staggering at the spot where she’d go to wait these past two years. She chastises him for not coming to visit once, which he doesn’t deny. He also claims that he just came to this place because he was lost.

As he walks away, Su grabs him into a backhug. While he claimed to have forgotten everything, she says she hasn’t, and tearfully asks him to bear with her embrace just for now. Since he left on his own, she claims she has a right to do this much.

So hesitates, but stops himself from covering her hands with his own. She hesitantly asks if he still hates her, which is when he wrenches her hands off him and walks away. Su can only cry in his wake.

Woo-hee gives a report to the king about So’s false progress on the fortress in Seokyeong, claiming that he’s deliberately making it so that the fortress can’t be built. Though the king’s uncle Wang Shik-ryeom was supposed to oversee the construction, Woo-hee claims that he isn’t doing his job because he’s ill.

King Jeongjong wonders irately if this is all a ploy on So’s part for the throne, but Woo-hee has another concern: “Why have you broken your promise?” Since the king has mandated that those who can’t pay their taxes will be sold into slavery, the people of Later Baekje are being forced to work to death on the fortress.

“What meaning is there for me to be your eyes and ears, Your Majesty?” she asks, adding that the deal they made is no longer beneficial to her. The king calls her “Princess” as he threatens to tell Baek-ah about their little arrangement.

So flashes back to his fond memories with Su, smiling. He then thinks about how she asked if he still hated her as his smile fades—but just then, he turns around to find Su right behind him.

Apparently neither of them see King Jeongjong, ninth prince Won, and an entire party of attendants on the pavilion just feet away, watching them. Won uses this as evidence that Jeongjong can’t trust So, despite Jeongjong being sure that the two had no more feelings for each other. He even checked to make sure they never sent letters to each other during So’s absence.

In order to test where So’s loyalties truly lie, the king shoots an arrow at Su. So sees it just in time to grab her out of the way, getting slightly grazed by the flying arrow in the process.

He gets up immediately when the king and Won come down, with Won making it a point to notice that the two of them are closer than they appear. So just claims that it would’ve looked bad for the king to kill a court lady, though he’s probably not fooling anyone anymore.

Su takes the arrow that almost killed her back to her quarters, where she’s called Woo-hee to deliver a message to Baek-ah. We hear his response in voiceover as Su goes to the house where So is recovering, as Baek-ah mentioned that the gash on his arm got worse while he was traveling back to Seokyeong.

She finds So near the palace, with the arrow wound on his arm looking red and angry. He only catches half-unconscious and feverish glimpses of her as she tends to it, while she reaches out a tentative hand to trace the numerous other scars littering his body.

When he wakes, he finds Su sleeping across the room and gets up to kneel closer to her. Reaching out a hand, he moves as if to cup her face, only to be interrupted when Su wakes up.

Caught, he simply asks why she’s here. She said she asked Baek-ah for a favor so she could come ask him one question: “You still haven’t forgotten me, have you? You said you no longer liked me. You were lying, weren’t you?”

But that’s not the question she came here to ask, as she tearfully reminds him that she risked her life to leave the palace so she could be here. “In the past two years, there was not a day when I wasn’t waiting for you. I wanted to go back to that time. I wished for it again and again. So I wanted to tell you… that I trust you.”

She says she’ll ask him once more, and wants an honest answer from him: “Do you still love me?” There’s a long pause before So answers by turning around to kiss her.

He pulls back to see her crying, and wipes away one of her tears with his thumb. He swoops in for another kiss, and Su pulls him in tighter. A nearby candle flickers out, which can only mean one thing…

We return to find the two lovebirds lying in bed, with So stroking Su’s cheek. She wakes from her sleep and smiles at him, and they spent the rest of the night making shadow puppets on the wall. So’s actually pretty darn good at this.

They’re as adorable over breakfast the next morning, with Su hand feeding him bits of protein while smiling. That night, they study the stars together as Su points out constellations, though of course their bliss is interrupted by the arrival of Astronomer Choi.

He’s come with bad news: The king is very ill. Apparently the monk who was tending to the king got hit by lightning (hahahaha, sorry), and the shock of it was too much for the king to bear. We see the king going literally mad as he imagines Eun in his room and outside of it, as well as the ghost of King Hyejong or King Taejo.

Upon finding the king, Wook immediately left to see Wang Shik-ryeom in Seokyeong, which is why Astronomer Choi has come to So. General Park is gathering his forces, so it’s up to So to decide whether he wants to make a grab for the throne.

“Do you want the throne?” Su asks him. “I do,” So admits. Now Su realizes that the throne is the reason he left her, though he tells her that it was because the king was using her against him that he had to make it look like he no longer loved her.

She asks what he’d do if she asked him to give up the throne, and he just smiles at her as he says he’d convince her. Reminding him that he once said he didn’t need the throne as long as they could be together, she’s noticed that he doesn’t say that anymore.

Since they agreed not to lie to each other, So tells her that he came to realize that the world can change if the king changes. “I will not let others keep me on a leash. And if it is a seat where I can put an end to irrational matters, then I surely desire… to become king.”

 
COMMENTS

I’m at least glad they didn’t drag on the separation storyline for more than one episode (despite years passing in the timeline), though I’m still scratching my head over why it was necessary in the first place. It felt obligatory, like this was just the point in the story where we needed some noble idiocy and forced separation, and even if it was there to just provide some angst, it was so short-lived that by the time I noticed that this was where we were really going, it was over.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take the cute romantic moments between Su and So, even if their togetherness kind of negated the reason they had been driven apart. I get that So wanted to fool Jeongjong into thinking that he no longer loved Su so that she wouldn’t be used against him, but what good did that ruse do? It’s not like Jeongjong has a conscience that would’ve kept him from making Su’s life a living hell if he suddenly thought that So didn’t care, and it certainly didn’t stop him from manhandling her in front of So anyway. Or are we supposed to believe that the only thing standing between Su and that arrow was Jeongjong’s intel that they hadn’t sent each other any letters in two years?

Speaking of Jeongjong, I admit to being fatigued by what now feels like a parade of mad kings in this show, especially since the directing seems to have no desire to rein in any of these performances. It’s all just too much, what with Hyejong screaming his head off like a lunatic, and now Jeongjong constantly staring off into the middle distance while he talks crazy.

It’s fine to portray him as being plagued by guilt, even though guilt isn’t an emotion Jeongjong ever even hinted he could feel, but what’s the reasoning behind taking that idea to the absolute extreme? It’s to the point where I feel like they’re using madness as a cop-out to create an easy way to delegitimize whoever’s on the throne without having to create character-driven reasons for it, that way we’re left with only one option to root for. The simplicity can be nice sometimes, but we lose out on the complexity of So having to actually make plans against a worthy foe when that foe imagines dead people in his room at night.

I thought it was interesting that the scenario with Eun played out exactly as it did in Su’s original vision, but the intent behind So’s actions was (potentially?) different. It’s a question I dearly wish the show would explore a bit more, since we had Su looking wide-eyed at all the events happening before her, realizing that they were happening just as she saw them, and then… thinking nothing else about it. Are her visions true glimpses into the future? Is she seeing a future she already had a hand in, and does that mean everything’s predetermined to happen with or without her interference?

But now that she’s seen that So didn’t actually want to kill Eun, I wonder if she’s considered that perhaps the past has already changed, and that So won’t leave a trail of bodies on his way to the throne. I did like that So called her out on not trusting him this episode, and do feel that he was genuinely hurt by that—but I like it more that they’re back to being cute. At least we have a week to enjoy it.

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Tags: featured, Hong Jong-hyun, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo

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Wow. Fast recap. Thanks!

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It was a thoughtful recap, I just started watching ML, but I noticed that I didn't see the scene where SU hug SO, I watched it through dramafever, are they showing 2different version?

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Yup there's two different versions. the SBS and International version. This is the first of it's kind. Lol.

SBS was the one being aired in korea. They said this was re-edited for Korean audience due to poor domestic ratings.

The international version was for streaming sites like Dramafever and Youku. Since this drama was pre-produced (filming ended last june). They already released it in advance for streaming sites. Thus, the obvious diffrence.

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@endo
Wow that's something! Thank u for the info, I guess I'll just have to rewatched the other version too, if it was streamed and subbed after it aired In Korea. I heard about the re edited version but thought it was just the first week due to people's response, didn't know it's always like that every single episode.

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Thanks for explanation I have been running behind episode because I found watching both Love in the Moonlight and Scarlet Heart at same time too confusing and unsatisfying. They are both great but very different. I love both the heroins and would hate to choose between them, and both dramas but, despite the lower ratings, I think Scarlet Heart is the more satisfying ultimately. It certainly has some truly awful scenes of cruelty and hate and characters who are evil in the extreme!

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This is why I chose one at the start of airing and stuck with it, while trying to avoid the other LOL.

Now that Moonlight has finished…my plan is to marathon Moon Lovers to finale week so I'm caught up with everyone and finishing at the same time.

I feel like this show is going to require me to have a planner or something….3 versions of the same drama! WTF-ery!!

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I feel like this needs to be a disclaimer on all Scarlet Heart recaps/comments lol.

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Warning: this show is habit forming.

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.....which may include watching 2 or 3 versions of each episode, reading commentaries, decoding chinese poems, researching historical facts, mastering the art of Google search, having illusions of grandeur for Lee Jun Gi, re-watching previous episodes, fixating on Lee Jun Gi, trolling Twitter, spying on Instagram, browsing Soompi and allocating time for DB recaps and responses! ?

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In the immortal words of @cherryarrow last week:

Look at us. We’re so screwed lol.

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@pogo

oh we're so screwed.

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@ YOYO

I love your disclaimer. I've done all of it except the Twitter thing because i don't have one. Haha.

I also go to youtube and search BTS. If my korean is only good. I would be lurking in Naver too.

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@Yoyo, I am having illusion for Lee Jun Gi!! As he is the main reason I'm watching this show.
Squeeeeee!!

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@LemonMeringue

Thanks to @ren, I got to see the leaked Youku version, then found myself watching the live SBS version and finally the subbed international release. Now the question is, should I watch all the Youku episodes??

The things I do for this show......

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Is there even anywhere to watch youku episodes with English subs?

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I mean all of them, that is, not just the leaked #16.

I can't believe I'm asking this.

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Oh man, I just left Soompi and found out there are THREE versions of ep 16 - Chinese, international and SBS - with none exactly identical.

* slaps forehead

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It's like the makers of this drama don't want to let us sleep or something.

Thankfully that's only one episode to hunt down this week, not two. (still, #@&! baseball tho, I wanted two! At least this restores the even-odd episode alignment so I hope next week doesn't end up pre-empted again either.

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Yeaaah. I noticed the 3 versions.

Because of the leaked. I watched the Chinese Version for the very first time. And then i watched SBS (raw) yesterday. So when i rewatched it again in Dramafever last night. I was like..What the hell? Haha!

All along there was 3 versions. THREE!

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@endo - same here! My three versions were SBS raw, international (non-China) subbed, and SBS subbed - but now the existence of an actually different Chinese cut that's not identical to ours, is blowing my mind!

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Wait, there's a 3rd version? I've seen SBS and Chinese youku version, where can you find the other version?

Also does anybody know if So fed Su food as well...? I thought he did feed her but I didn't see it in both versions.

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@ cherryarrow

Surprisingly, Dramafever version is slightly different from Youku version.( But i'm just talking about Ep 16). It's my first time watching the Youku one and i really thought it's exactly the same as Dramafever. But i was wrong.

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I watched the chinese when it was leaked, I watched the SBS version as soon as kissasian translated the episode now I have to look for the international version and somehow I can't get enough !!!!

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For those interested, some of the key differences (credit to Soompi posters) include:

- Chinese/Youku version is the ONLY version that shows the convo between General Park, So, Ji Mong and Baek Ah before the break up scene. This appears minor, but changes enormously how the audience interprets So's reasons for breaking up with Soo. It's clear that he's breaking up to gain General Park's alliance, and underlines his determination to aim for the throne.

Otherwise, I think it's similar to the international version. Those of us who watched the "leaked" episode watched this version.

- International version (DF, One Asia) does not have back hug, Yo-Woo Hee convo, and has a shorter reunion scene. Less kissing too. And less scenes of Yo going psycho.

But it DOES have So empathizing with Yo, which I felt gave Yo's character complexity and showed So's ability to understand his brothers, even the one he disliked.

And it DOES have more Jung scenes; he asked for a favour from Yo which we can likely suspect relates to Soo.

- SBS version has what the international version missed out. And, a longer and more intense makeout scene, starting with Soo lingering over So's scars (and THIS was nice).

That's all I remember.

The hoops we have to jump through..

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@LemonMeringue - we're really so screwed.

I'd have laughed at anyone telling me just a year ago that I'd be so obsessed with a drama that gives me so much frustration and grief, and well, look at me now.

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Can i ask where can i watch those 3 versions? I'm confused whether i watched SBS version or international version. I watched it on newasiantv @_@

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@Zebaejoe - if you're watching a version with the SBS logo in the top right-hand corner, that's what gets aired in Korea. You can find the subbed versions of those on kissasian.

The international version most of us refer to is the one seen on Dramafever and subbed by them. The Youku version will have Chinese subtitles at the bottom (and I don't think any of us saw subs for that until this week)

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Here is where I've been watching the 3 versions with english subs:

International version on Dramafever
SBS version on Kissasian
Chinese version on Dramalove

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What??? Youku version is different from international aka DramaFever version???

Dang!! I started watching on Youku cuz I didn't wanna have to wait for English subs. Then, I switched to the DramaFever version cuz Youku needed membership to watch the latest eps in full. And all the while watching the SBS version for each ep. Does this mean I need to rewatch the Chinese version eps? Or can someone who's been watching all 3 versions that only ep. 16 had such deviations from the international one?

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so where can we watched all these cuts? I'm dying of curiosity here.

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I think I'm watching the SBS version since it has SBS logo on the upper right side. Can anyone tell me if in the other cuts we get more medium shots rather than too many close up specially during dialogue?

I know everyone is so gorgeous in this drama but it wouldn't hurt to pull back the camera every once in a while.

The dead center CUs are so disorienting, there's a reason why we have rule of 3rds in framing a shot and a dead center CU does not work in a dialogue scene. It fails to identify relationship of space between the 2 characters conversing. and I know tv drama format is not supposed to be watched in one seating but since majority of us binge watch, too many CUs in an hour let alone successive hours of watching is too jarring.

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So not 2 but 3 versions now? Gosh! All along im watching youku and sbs version only.. when did the dramafever version start differing?

I can understand if there is SBS / International.. Why now even international in dramafever and youku is different? (they are definitely pre-produced and sold prior even ep1.. so cant be last min edit unlike SBS which i could understand since its due to their audience

So assuming SBS didnt edit theirs.. what version would it be.. dramafever or youku..

come to think of it.. i think the production team really underwent a horrible and messy time that they are having this problem prior to launch with two different version internationally to be sold and yet had to create a 3rd version with their own SBS copy due to feedbacks..

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Sooooooo did they do it after the kiss ????i cant help but scream all the time cause they're cute asf

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@Zebaejoe-
Yes, they did do it after the kiss because we see the candle blow out and then the next scene is them in the bed. Soo has her hair down and she's in her underclothes. Apparently, when the candle blows out that means they did it. A poster on Soompi (I think) said that the candle metaphor is used in Chinese historical dramas to mean that sex happened. First time she has seen it used in a Korean drama is here in Scarlet Heart Ryeo.

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Sassy Girl Chun-hyang did it! :D

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Ok Yo you have done it!!! Lets see who will stop So after what happened in this episode!!!
No matter in the begining of the drama went as showing So as the bad one!!!
He was the only one who was in the side of each of his brothers & the people he cared whenever needed most no one else!!!
And what is with that background score!!! For each of the character's death that song plays!!!
That only is enough is to make you cry!!! Damn that music score!!!
The laugh after killing Eun!!! God that was heart breaking!!!

Yo you really deserve Eun's hallucination!!! You deserve it!!! Nothing else to say...
Isn't the same thing is happening to Yo as happened to Moo???

Who else were dissapointed when you saw Jung instead of So in the room?
I definately did!!! :( but after what happened So won't come to the room after all!!! So sad!!!

BaekHa how come you are becoming cunning little by little!!!
Are you taking classes from your elder brothers in spying???

How come these guys do the episodes in a tearjerker way???
No matter of the episode if it is a sad episode it is definately a tearjerker!!!
I knew this will be a sad episode but didn't think this will be this much sad...
Didn't expect to cry but cried buckets in the begining of the episode!!!

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Not really,Moo was poisoned but Yo is having those halucinationes because of guilt even if it's hard to believe...in the Chinese version(leaked version) So said as well that Yo was always more sensible or weak minded(hard to imagine that one) and he must be among the ones who regrets most about Eun,so the guilt is killing his mind and body something that i find tragic yet rewarding at the same time as the true culprit of all this in my opinion is his Mother who made the person who was then

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Yeah, So did say that. He said Yo had always been the more sensitive one.

I'm sad that scene was deleted from the SBS version

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Indeed,it gave another view to Yo and actually made him even more pityful and also how So viewed him...Or more how So can really see the people around him,he can really read them and clearly know how they are molded...So really knows his brothers well,must say he must be the only one who can actually really know each one,his observation and feel is amazing

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Oh yeah, definitely. Mr ex Jafar is so weak minded, I mean to volunteer to be a puppet to his mother then his own brother? (Won, you really have to be cautious once So get the throne, good luck dude).

Remember how he reasoned to his mother that So needed to be kept because of a couple reason but one of it is because he assumed So held back because he's So's older brother. If weak minded means he easily swayed into being the good kid, brother, prince, and king that definitely gave us the window to their whole family dynamic.

Yo, the weak one (paying attention to only one, his mother's will -- extension the throne)
So, the forced to be strong one (paying attention to his surrounding by sacrificing his own).
Jung, the one who wore the horse blinders (I mean COME ON JUNG! Ya dumb sunava...sorry. You need a big gallon can of whoopass, child. Maybe I could smack some senses into you. I have higher hopes for you compare to Eun)

It is weird but this dynamic sort of play the typical first, middle, last child syndrome to the extreme.

King Taejo knew huh? Is that why he decided to send So away, especially after Mother dear try to kill him with fire arrows? And perhaps try to look nonchalant about him in front of everyone (pretending to not care, eventhough sending mask every year and even came just to see So's reaction).

Oh Soo....Remember how So hated your eyes when your gave him that pitiful expression? That's what you get now. You waste a perfectly good knowledge there. tsk tsk tsk.

Looking at how things going now, sigh, be still my heart, it seems that they will take the chinese version ending. My prediction is that Jung will be the one that guard Soo when she passes away. So will send her out of the palace and won't be seeing her, even her cremation/burial. Tragic end too?

In this version it didn't show that Yo grant Jung's special request and how Jung went to Damiwon to see Soo when Soo sneaked out to have her way with So. That's what I based my assumption on.

That song tho, it's like "Bad Day" by Daniel Powter for American Idol. Everytime that song emerge now we know somebody die. tsk tsk tsk. It's like Beethoven funeral march.

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I'm totally confused.. I watched it on S-one channel so it must've been the international version, right? It was advertised as aired at the same time as Korea. Later I rewatched at dramacool and have no idea if there any discrepancy. Lol!

Btw I agree so far 4th prince So is quite insightful of his brothers. Except for Wook. Can anybody explain if So ever find out about Hae Soo's crush on Wook?

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@TourmalineMillie @Miky -

oh dear, I wish that scene had been kept in by SBS. I thought it was lovely, not only for the way it showed Yo's guilt (and that he actually was capable of feeling guilt), but So's essential compassion, in being able to see even the most hateful of his brothers with a touch of sympathy (even if he still means to get rid of him and take the throne anyway).

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Yes, I preferred the flow of the international version better, and precisely because of what you mentioned.

It didn't have the back hug scene, but even without it, I think the development of the SoSoo loveline unfolded well.

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Hard to believe Yo being sensitive, but I can see him being torn with guilt on killing his innocent little brother who did nothing wrong to him. I mean they grew up together. I wish the drama would have been able to show this side of Yo too.

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I wonder if they were suggesting he was actually seeing spirits and it was driving him mad.

Or -- then again -- there's always the possibility of Wook and his crazy sister putting mercury in his bath. Their mole is still in the palace. And at some point she needs to get caught.

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yeah but Yo knows it was bathtime mercury poisoning that did Mu in, I doubt he'd be dumb enough to fall for that scheme himself.

I thought what you did - that Yo was plagued by (what he imaged were) Eun and Soon-deok's spirits right from the moment Jung dropped those arrow stems in front of him. Baby bro wanted to ensure that his big brother didn't forget their deaths, and clearly, he succeeded.

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U rightly point it out. Why is the mole hasnt been caught. Why is she still in the palace as if she've done nothing wrong n betraying no one's trust.

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Who else were dissapointed when you saw Jung instead of So in the room?

ME. and worsen by the horse hair...

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And those "stache" like sideburns too....

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I swear I've never seen sideburns like those in my life. They look more like eyebrow hairs than, well, the sideburns of a person with straight/wavy hair.

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LOL on the horse hair part. Love how you guys in DB do thorough review, opinions and making hilarious comments.

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At least it was better than his former brushed back, gangster wannabe look.

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Yeah me too.....I like Ji Soo a lot but seeing Jung where you want So is disappointing. Even worse because of that horrible hair (why does he only have such bad hair, everyone else's hair is at least better than that).

But the only ones who look good with long hair in this drama are Lee Jun Ki and Nam Joo Hyuk. Jung's hair is not that bad in the poster and when he was just a prince but after he becomes general it's really bad.

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Hahaha maybe im the only one who think jung become more cool and mature with that hair

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I just want to shout at him to get a hairbrush lol. Or at least tie your hair up properly.

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Yeah, I liked it too. He needed Something, to give him a little more gravitas, since he is supposed to be a battle-hardened general and all (yeah, right, with that baby face).

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How old is Jung supposed to be by the time he becomes a general? I think his age should be at least in his twenties but Ji Soo even though he's 23, looks too young to be facing all that, forget becoming a general.

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Yeah but not with that face though

He looks like he's back from playing in dirt, not fighting battles (even if Jung in history would have been actually leading them by Ji-soo's current age)

They really need to find him a better wig.

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Jung's a general so maybe he didnt have time to groom himself enough as always in the battlefield. Remember Su gave him and seondeok facial treatment that "brighten" their skin? Lol.

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But this time he's not in the battlefield, he was at home! His mother makes so much fuss over him, she should teach him to at least tie his hair back properly, or use a comb.

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Also is he copying So's hair from Shinju? Take some hair styling tips from your brother!

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I mean, I love Ji-soo but yeah. That was not the prince Su or I wanted to see!

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@junah i was like seriously, and crossed my fingers hopping So also doesn't spot the same hairstyle

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Nooooo why would you even suggest that

Now i need to pray for Lee Jun Ki's hair

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Damnnn.... The editing is getting worst, my head hurts!!
Anw, here are the highlights of ep.16:

My fave part:
So : why didn't you tell me about Eun?? Didn't you trust me?
Soo : sorry, I did not trust you... But after Seun Dook told me to trust you... errr, I mean I trust you now.. Really.... I swear!! O_O
So : .... T_T
(Su... You kinda deserve this, girl... I want to root for you, but your lack of trust to someone who always stay with you for the past 3 years is kinda sucks..)

After 2 years (time skip):
Yo. : he is gone mad. Poor him.. His mother still pestering him even after he becomes the King, no wonder he is going mental. Where are his wive(s) anw?? She should stay with him and kick his mother out!! Or maybe they are currently fighting to be the no.1 queen just like his mother and Wook's mother did??
Won : still annoying AF. What did he gain from staying with Yo anw?? Did Yo give him a good position in the kingdom?? Anything??
Baek Ah & Woo hee : What is their story?? Are they married now? But based on Baek Ah's hairdo, I guess they aren't.
Chae Yoon : soo... She is getting away with Moo's mercury poisoning, isn't she?? No one bother to investigate it anymore?? Anyone?? I guess not... *sighh*
Wook : I thought he wants to be the king, but after 2 years he is still doin nothingggg... Sighh..
So : does he... use eyeliners now??? Well, at least he knows what he wants now. At this point, I don't care anymore... He should just revolt and be the king... A.S.A.P

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"Chae Yoon : soo… She is getting away with Moo’s mercury poisoning, isn’t she?? No one bother to investigate it anymore?? Anyone?? I guess not… *sighh*"

I think Wang So will be the one to find out and she will be hanged or something like that. That's what I remember from the long trailer. I'll take that over steaming.

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Oh damn, I really hope they don't forget about Chae's betrayal....she murdered the freaking king!!!

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Oh I hope as well they haven't forgotten that. Girlfriend was all chipper this episode...and I was just sitting there thinking...wow, I know a couple years have passed but could she be any more happy? *rollseyes*

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Yeah, I thought she seemed super chippery shameless, too!

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Shameless, yup, that's it.

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yeah, same here. Does Chae-ryung literally not know what she did? I mean, Su was RIGHT THERE trying to puzzle out with her just who could have poisoned the king's bathwater with mercury!

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Chipper, happy and without any trace of feeling remorse!! That's why I am so iritated.
Seriously, if Soo will leave So when he hang CY after what she did to Mo, I am done with So. Just let So be happy with someone who truly appreciate him.

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Seriously how is she so happy now? She poisoned the king and she's not even slightly sorry about it 2 years later, is she supposed to be as bad as Wookand Won?

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@pogo
IU is not playing a sageuk character and I'm not expecting her to act like one but she does pick it up pretty fast. I'm impressed!

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Seriously did everyone including CR forget about that....you freaking poisoned the king and almost caused Soo's death because she was blamed for it.

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Well, there's now another king that seems to be experiencing the symptoms of mercury poisoning. While Wook is on the sidelines waiting for another of his schemes to hatch...

But then right when the symptoms are turning fatal...
So returns. *facepalm*

Dude is like the show's Wile-E-Coyote, to So's Roadrunner.

Agree that it's all going to catch up with Chae. Such an annoying remorseless character.

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Hahaha imagine if Wook managed to poison not one but TWO kings but still never became king himself? Serves you right.

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Really? So will eventually prosecute Chae Yoon just like in BBJX? This will mark the tipping point in So/Su relationship then. I agree Kiara, hanging is definitely not as barbaric as steaming, I'm reminded of the description in the novel about steamed human flesh smell that wafted in the air. I'm having lunch now, it makes me want to puke.

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Well, it's either going to be Chae Yoon or Woo Hee.
That part in the original made me sick. Hanging is more fitting for a Goryeo era.

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omg if it's Woo Hee..... poor Baekah. It's even more troubling because Soo trust both CR and WH and both are spies.

That line So gave her when she first came to the palace about never trusting anyone or you'll die, is so true.

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Woo-hee's story is a complete idol PPL. The last surviving princess of Baekje was with her father when he surrendered to Goryeo. Her own father the former king of Hubaekje aka later Baekje spearheaded the unification (fighting on Goryeo's side) by destroying the very nation that he built.
Taejo did not kill her father at all. He welcomed them to Goryeo and treated him like his own father.

If she was a bit convincing in anyway or form then it would've been easier to ride with her story. But really? you are just going to walk in there and assassinate a war hero like Taejo? Okaaaay lol.

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Seriously I don't know why they give Woo Hee screen time, the character is pointless and the actress is worse.

People making up all kinds of excuses for why she's so bad should just look at Soon Deok, that actress is a rookie too but in a whole different class as an actress. And poor Soon Deok ends up being killed off while Woo Her remains.

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Sorry, I mean to spell Woo HEE. Stupid autocorrect.

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@pigsnout
Sageuk is not an easy genre to pull off and these idols are severely lacking to begin with and it's showing.

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@Kiara I think idols acting is ok as long as they can at least convey emotion properly. I think IU does well at that and her character came from the 21 century anyway so it's ok if he speech is not perfect.

Baekhyun in early eps was really bad but I thought he acted his death scene really well, I almost cried. Z. Her is actually great in this role even though it's a small one she really shines. It's only Seohyun who is totally this terrible, everything about her is so stiff.

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Sorry, I meant to say Z. Hera. I find her acting really good for a character who could so easily just be annoying and clingy, but as Soon Deok she was so sweet I just end up loving her.

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@Kiara - well, they do tell us at the start of every episode that this drama took creative liberties with history as we know it. And as you know, I actually don't even think the "history" modern-Su knows is the same as ours (she's from a kind of AU?).

And even with all that, I'd have no issues with her storyline if Seohyun was less stiff or even had some chemistry with Nam Joo-hyuk. Like I can take IU's sageuk speech being off since she came from 2016, but it's weird that the person from supposed Hubaekje sounds more modern than the one from Korea 2016.

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@pogo

Exactly what I said, I wouldn't have an issue with the storyline if she was a bit convincing. She is terribly lacking for this genre. Most of these idols are. They should stick them first in modern rom.com for more practice.
Han Ye-ri played a fictional character with a fictional storyline in SFD but she was so convincing as heck you'd think she existed in that era. No one has has chemistry with a sword like Ye-ri. When she wield it you just know someone is going to die.
(Even if the writing is lacking, a good actor can elevate it and make it believable).
Her story is part fictional history and the other half is probably based on BBJX's Min Min. I just can't picture her as a princess of Baekje or the other.

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Which brings us back to that ginormous pot Su was stirring the life out of that paste when they were making those paper lanterns. The same pot can be used to boil people alive. Hah. Who knew that pot had other uses than boiling paste?!!

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Oh my goodness, the giant pot... now I'm imagining that scene and let's just say I'm glad I haven't had lunch yet. ?

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I was totally thinking about the original when I saw that huge pot. Didn't she watch the drama? It came out before she was transported to Goryeo lol.

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O_O

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@Liar - but Su in modern times is Korean, why will she watch a Chinese drama? Or maybe she knows of it but never saw it so never saw the boiling.

Was that a thing they actually did in China or is it just made up for fantasy?

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@Kiara - sorry, my autocorrect spelled your name wrong.

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@pigsnout, Ancient China bears one of the most gruesome history of torturing and execution methods that oftentimes exceed our imagination (for example don't know if you've ever heard of slow slicing? *gulp*) and yes, being boiled alive is one of them, either in oil or water. ?

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@pigsnout
What angieya said. China's method of execution was unimaginable but it wasn't just China, Middle East and Europe were just as cruel.

Goryeo (Taejo) was known to be a merciful ruler. When his enemies surrendered he'd let them live and I think it was a form of respect and honor between these warring states. Taejo had a respectable reputation before he even became king.

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@pigsnout
Why would she watch a Chinese drama? BBJX was very popular in and outside of China.

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O_O please never transport me to any past time then, I prefer to be tortured in current days where at least someone can make a human rights protest

@Kiara I understand BBJX was popular even outside of China but we don't always watch other nations dramas even the popular obes, especially if they are in a different language. So maybe Su because she's Korean, never got into it?

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I used to hear of boiling people in oil but I really thought that was just a thing they made up for stories.....to know it's real is just O_O

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I'm still not over the boiling part. I don't think I'll ever be over the fact that it was a real thing, even if I'm furious at Chae-ryung and Wook.

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At this point, I will not be sorry if Su leaves So. Frankly, I am with disgusted with her faulty reasoning, her wavering loyalty, and her lack of intuition. She has been a drag on So in ways that have more than repaid the initial good she did for him. I haven't been this unimpressed with a heroine, in terms of both the way she is written and the way she is acted, since Gu Family Book.

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I'll give you faulty reasoning, but 'wavering loyalty'? She explained her reason for holding back on the knowledge that Eun was in hiding with her, and I'm pretty sure she said quite clearly she initially kept quiet because she felt it was in So's interest not to know and to have to make the choice to kill Eun on Yo's orders/she doesn't want to put him in the way of having blood on his hands.

Of course, it all went horribly pear-shaped and So was rightfully hurt by her lack of trust (letter notwithstanding), but Su's loyalties have always been clear - she wants to keep the peace in the Goryeo royal family, and she's willing to do anything to avoid bloodshed. That's been her position ever since Taejo's reign, the problem is when it's at odds with her relationship with So (and she waited for him for two years anyway).

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me too, i agree
she should pay for her crimes!!
she is so cunning..maybe she is still Won's eyes & ears in Damiwon.
Hahaha..
I am one of those who will cheer for her execution.?

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I try to have some pity and think maybe she was forced, but then she's just happy and laughing two years later....

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Of course she wasn't alone in this. She must have done it out of loyalty to Wook or she was being blackmailed by one of the princes. Maybe she has a story that we are not aware of.

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Obviously Wook and Won have more responsibility and she was just their servant but it's like she totally forgot she did anything wrong :/

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@Kiara - like someone said, they better have threatened her whole family with painful death to get her to agree to the poisoning. Because she's offensively chipper now, and I'm just like.... how?

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@pogo
Yes that makes sense. (I was thinking of Yu Tan's relationship in the original with the 9th prince too).
She does look too happy for someone who was involved in the death of the former king.

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Nice input and on point on a lot of things that happened. I marathon this drama over the weekend and I just accept everything the way it presented to me, but now that I read this comments, I start to think now, ahh why I didn't think about that? I think I'm just too engrossed on how pretty Lee Jun Ki is, that my mind stopped thinking.

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The only good thing about these close up shots is getting a good look at his face lol.

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I think the editing in both version is not bad compared to previous episodes. I can feel the flow of the story now.

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Yeah and they even stopped using horrible OSTs! So much better to just have regular music in the background.

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Their ost is not horrible ??

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I used to watch it with no sound unless Jun-ki is talking. I love his voice and sageuk tone.

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Holy crap on a cracker, what an episode! No, what a week for MLSHR Starting from the Monday episode release fiasco (I have never hated baseball as much in my entire life...and I usually love it) to the episode itself.
There was PLOT everywhere this episode and the SoSoo/SoHae ship still had enough time to sneak in some momemts we'll be regretting ever seeing come Episode 20.

1. Our favorite death song made its appearance again
I absolutely love Im Sun Hae's Will Be Back but I seriously can't handle it when I hear it start in the background.
Eun and Soondeok's deaths were amazingly sad. The directing, acting, music, everything of that scene was engineered to make me cry. Eun asking So to kill him as the wish he promised way back was just depressing. Eun really stepped up as a character. The fact that the Eun in his last scene was the same childish, immature Eun we've come to know made the entire scene much more poignant and sad. In the moment where it counted the most, Eun became the man deserving of Soondeok's love. I'm just broken that Soondeok didn't get to witness Eun's defining moment. She didn't get to see Eun ask to follow her into death because he couldn't leave her alone...Dammit, the ninja's around me are cutting onions again...
Let me not get started on So's hysteric laughter after he dealt the finishing blow. I wonder how LJG was after filming that scene. I imagine the emotions he had from immersing himself in that entire scene would have been quite overwhelming. So's hysteric laughter was perfect in that moment.

2. The Breakup
Yep. I am so glad Soo's failure to trust So had some consequences. I mean, I can't imagine how they could have glossed over the fact that it led to So having to kill his brother (mercy killing, as it were). But the part I love most is the fact that it wasn't just about So's anger. Here's where I think the International version had a leg up on the SBS version: After So saw Soo's letter (WHY THE HECK DIDN'T HE OPEN IT THOUGH!! THE HANDWRITING...), we then cut to the meeting with the General where he wanted to know what So was willing to give up in order to get the throne. Then we cut to the breakup scene. There was no doubt that his breaking up with Soo was because he intended to give up someone he loved for the throne. This scene might have been almost the same in both versions, but I preferred where the Int'l version placed it and how it flowed. The flashback to it was okay though. I think they also cut out Jimong and Baek Ah declaring where their loyalties lay in regards to So aiming for the throne.
Anyway, the breakup had 3 levels to it: a) So was mad at Soo for not telling him where Eun was. It was a sign that she didn't trust him. And if she didn't trust him, how could she love him. b) As mentioned above, it was a way to solidify his determination for the throne. c) it was a way to protect Soo. The scene with Yo and Weasel Won and the...

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(cont'd)

the godsforsaken arrow showed quite clearly that So was aware that as long as Soo was thought of as his weakness, she wasn't safe.

3. The Makeup
How utterly amazing was that entire scene? Just one question I have to ask: They totally did it, didn't they? That candle was the most expressive candle I've ever seen in my life. How can one candle going out be so sexy?

Gosh I have so much to say and not enough words or time to say it but I'm pretty sure people here will say it way more eloquently than I ever could.
Now I have to run...

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1. The onion ninja came to my living room too (im one of those who has luxury of international airing). And OMG. Why they always make the death scene awfully beautiful and serene? While the said death scene are executions. Why editors? Why? Why didn't you use those ability to create the other scenes too?

2. Me too curious if the letter was in hangul or hanja ;p

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In the version I saw, we saw Soo begin the letter in Hanja. I am pretty sure. :-)

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They did it.

I refuse to be told the otherwise.

Leave me alone in my wildest fantasy.

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Yaaaaayyy for fanfic (that I'll hunt down) and our wild imagination. Lol!!!

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In the interest of academic research, I compared the make up scene in both international and domestic versions.

In the international scene: So and Soo kiss -> separate-> hug -> candle -> lights out.

In the SBS version: So and Soo kiss -> Kiss some more -> candle -> lights out.

Pray tell, beanies, which was better?

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Neither, we didn't get to see anything after the lights out. -.-

But if I had to choose, SBS. The more kisses the happier I am.

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My imagination was waaaaaaaaay better because it had all the important details that a mere candle represented. Plus, I have the liberty of playing it over and over again to my hearts content. *chuckles*

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I have to guve u thumbs up for this comment ??

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The make-out scene suddenly reminded me that Hae Soo came from the future and in the future she used to have a bf, probably not her first and only bf. Forgive me but I'm wondering if this is Hae soo's first time?

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Practically speaking, I don't think either of them are virgins. Men of that time and station got sexual experience pretty early on, probably through prostitutes or some kind of designated woman for the job. Ha Jin is most likely not a virgin, mentally. I think while she's has had sex before, Hae Su's body probably has not. So it would be like she would physically experience losing her virginity, but she would be prepared for it mentally.

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The arrow flew high and struck So in the arm. Imagine what would have happened if it had flown low and struck So down there, where the future of Goryeo lies...

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Hilarious in hidnsight, but the future of Goryeo actually laid with Baek Ah of all people. So's direct bloodline ended pretty quick and Baek Ah's issue from his affair with some maid ended up continuing the bloodline of Taejo.

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*hindsight

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Baek Ah: OG Goreyo Playa

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Lol the good looking Wang line would end.

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Hey the other Wang brothers aren't bad-looking lol.

It's just that no one quite matches So's level of unearthly beauty.

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That's right, they are no match for Wang So. Rise Wang So rise! Can't wait till he becomes king.

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Let me just believe that Su brought on her 21st century self and sealed the deed with So. Because Goryeo Su might have had been contented with just a kiss. And we all wanted mooooooooore than just a candle to leave us with that very thought.

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I believe they didn't do it.

They lay in bed chastely and exchanged poems about the water and stuff.

The highlight of the night was when she performed a dance with shadow puppets.

He also performed a medley of wolf whistles in quick succession.

Then they fell asleep.

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Bahahahahaha

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I'm sitting in my Equity tutorial and trying to not to smile like a complete fool. Need to get off Dramabeans comments before I get caught, or worse come across like a student with a massive crush on my tutor.

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So THAT'S what happened... :D

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Probably, they didn't, not surprising though, considering that SD and Eun didn't even consummate their marriage!

This is the second time in a week (also in OTWTTA) when kdrama got inquisitive viewers ruminating and guessing, they did it, or did it not? It looks like kdrama is getting vague in this aspect nowadays, what with blowing out of the candle to symbolise this? Next time they will probably go backwards and adopt that "flower beaten in rain" imagery to symbolise girl losing chastity?

For those of you who are still wondering, probably the easiest way to rid yourself of curiosity and boredom is to pick up a flower and pluck the petals out one by one as you chant alternately "they did it", "they did it not", and your patience will be rewarded with an answer. lol

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Cinderella style
Lol

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Oh my god don't mention Cinderella

I got so tired of that stupid drama

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Lol

But if she ends up pregnant then you know they did it

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Girls get pregnant in K-dramas by just holding hands. She is going to get pregnant since he touched her face. Wanna bet?

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poor Soon Deok thinks you get pregnant by kissing, thankfully at least Eun knows better.

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Blowing out candle in the history of watching Saeguk Dramas means they did it.

Yi San

The Princess's Man

Dong YI....

Trying to remember more

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The Princess Man they were sitting in front of a fire, not a candle. It's hard to blow out the full fire so they just kissed in front of that. But that was the main couple, I Don't remember how the second lead couple did it so maybe they had the candle?

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There was no question with Princess Man. He was undressing her while he was kissing her bare shoulders/back.

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@Kiara - iirc the undressing was necessitated by the fact that she had an arrow wound (she took one for him, much the way So did here). But yeah, the implication was pretty clear even without the subsequent pregnancy. @pigsnout is right that they were in front of a fire, though, and that kept burning on.

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I'm not saying they didn't do it, only that there wasn't a candle in TPM lol

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Agreed about the breakup - there are actual motives behind it, more than one of them, and I liked that at least one of them isn't noble idiocy - So actually wants that throne, and he wants it for good reasons. Which is a development I can get behind for his character, even if I dread the fallout on So and Su's relationship.

But it's also true that, as @LemonMeringue says, if Su hadn't been the one taking her heart in her hands and demanding the truth about whether he still loved her, that would have been the end for them. So was willing to make that their final break, but this time Su is the driving force behind them getting back together, and I love that.

And oof, that candle.

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Yeah, and why does she have so much trouble with him becoming king? The guy on the throne now is a crazed lunatic who likes to use people for archery practice. She knows from what little history her pea-brain holds that he was considered a good king. So why try and get him to run away, except out of purely selfish interest? He wants to be a good king and help the people, she has seen for herself how her "visions" do not tell the whole truth - so why not support him? Aaaargh, she is TSTL.

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In an ideal world Su would be omniscient and unselfish about her lovers' desire for the throne, BUT

1. She's been warned time and again that the quest for the throne changes even the best people, and she's got living evidence in front of her eyes with Wook.

2. Winning the throne doesn't exactly guarantee much by way of safety, considering Su's aware of the constraints Taejo operated under (being forced to go through with her marriage until she cut herself) and has personally seen a king go mad and succumb to an assassination plot.

3. The Gwangjong in Su's version of school history (i.e. fact) appears to be closer to what we know of Yo than So. As of now she has no apparent idea that So is actually going to turn out a pretty decent king. I can see why she'd be keen to ask him not to go after the throne then. There's been speculation for a while now that Su's effect on history is actually to change it from what she knows, to the version we know now - that that, one way or another, will come about as a result of her influence. But I think she has finally got it through into her brain that her interpretation of her visions is wrong, and that they're not infallible.

The closest equivalent to Su asking So not to go after the throne in modern terms, would be someone asking a husband or wife to not run for President of the United States. I can see the public service angle, but at the same time, it comes with a heavy price - I wouldn't call anyone selfish for asking that, so I suppose I'm cutting Su some slack here.

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Thanks Pogo!! I love your defense of HS. She's truly a character at odds with what the audience want from her (that is unconditional trust of Wang So) against her own self interest and I'm not down for that. I really believe that she loves him, but it's not wrong to try to preserve herself first too. It gives her a dimensionality that I totally relate to.

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Yes! Great comparison. You couldn't pay me enough to be the Presidents daughter or wife.

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And can I just say that Baekhyun did a really good job with portraying what had to be a difficult scene to do. I think it is safe to say that his acting has improved over the course of the drama. That, or he was just portraying Eun as the writer and director wanted him portrayed.

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I absolutely agree, his death scene was heartbreaking especially when he tells So about his long-ago birthday party where he asked him to take off the mask. When he asked for 'the gift only So can give', I was crying.

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From what I see, he's just a lot more effective when he doesn't have to act cute/silly. Even in the scene where he tells 'lies' to Hae Soo before his marriage he was quite watchable there.

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I swear, everyone in this drama is 10x better the minute they're taken off OTT cutesy mode.

I wanted Eun to get the hell off my screen for the entirety of the first seven episodes too, but after his marriage he actually got pretty tolerable (though I think that was, as Heads says, largely on Soon-deok).

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ON WANG SO’S TRANSFORMATION
whoa, show. I’m impressed. I thought it was just going to be straight up romance, but this show is deeper than that. It occurred to me that Hae Su and Wang So’s love right before the Crown Prince’s death and Eun’s death was a pure, uncomplicated love—the kind of love we hear songs being written about. Wang So’s feelings for Hae Su surpassed anything else in his life, it was the only thing that mattered to him. But in Episode 16, we can see that things are changing. Because he had to kill Eun, and because Hae Su was involved however indirectly in his death, his feelings for her are no longer as simple as the pure love that it once was. Don’t get me wrong, I still think that he’s in love with her, but there’s many many more complicating emotions in the way. He had to kill a beloved brother, he had to bow down to Wang Yo, he’s been sent away from the Palace where he has time to think about the broader implications of his actions. And unfortunately, this is where Hae Su’s downfall begins. She’s always been the kind of person who has said that she will stay the same if the other person stays the same, which we’ve already seen has not worked out for her in the past. Even if the core nature of a person does not change, the are many actions and decisions that will make a different person at the end. And that’s what’s happening to Wang So. He’s realizing that as a leader, he can make a real impact on people that he cares about and that might NOT be less important than his love for Hae Su. He’s no longer the love-struck teenager who would die for his lover, but rather someone who begins to have the vision for his destiny. I mean, that’s a hard call to turn down: the call to destiny to become who you were meant to become. And as awful as it is, I think because Hae Su cannot match him in his actions. Because she cannot survive in the palace with him, they have to part. And it will be horrible because their love has NOT run its course, but its feasibility has.

I’m really impressed by how the writer has shown us how transformative Hae Su’s love has been for Wang So, it has allowed him to step into his destiny, but also WHY it will not survive the palace. Unless Hae Su becomes cold and strategic like Yeon Haw, I don’t see her really making it in Goryeo. Hae Su would have to become a completely different person to ensure her position in the palace (like Queen SMS threatening to kill bebe WS and being responsible for Lady Oh’s miscarriage; these are HUGE travesties of humanity and I don’t see HS ever finding these actions justifiable) and if she becomes that person, I don’t know if Wang So would still love her. Is it tragic? Absolutely, because whenever these two will love each other until the end, but their relationship will not survive to the end.

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OTHER SHOW THOUGHTS
That dumping scene was really hard to watch, but at the same time, I thought the international version handled it really well. I didn't like the SBS edit in the first half of the episode. In the Intl version, the conversation with the General where Wang So figures out who's on his side essentially happens right after Eun's death. The general asks Wang So that to be a king, he has to give up people closest to him and he asks WS who is he going to give up? Then they cut RIGHT to WS breaking up with Hae Su, which establishes VERY clearly that he broke up with HS for multiple reasons.
1) To keep the Yo from using her as a pawn against him
2) To gain General Park's support
3) Dealing with her distrust of him regarding Eun's whereabouts. 

In the SBS edit, the conversation with the General, Baek Ah, and Jimong in the astronomy tower is a flashback, which kind of puts the logical sequence of events out of order. The other moment I really liked in the breakup scene was how Wang So almost exactly echoed Hae Su when she tried to end things with him after he came back from his year of exile (i.e. the laundry scene).
a. Laundry Scene - HS: Every time I meet with you, I recall things I want to forget.
b. Breakup scene - WS:  Every time I see you, I’m reminded of how I was forced to kill Eun.

In both scenes, they are trying to protect each other from further harm. And I feel Wang So in the second scene. I completely understand why he had to do what he did. It was for protection, it was for military gains, and it was for him to figure out the newly introduced doubt into their relationship.

Even when Hae Su tells him that he’s lying when he says he no longer has the same feelings for her; he KNOWS it’s a lie, but his retort is SO CUTTING: “We said we’d no longer lie to each other.”

Which of course, Hae Su started the lie first about Eun and this is his way of saying, you broke our promise. OOOF the feels.

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This is probably the reason why these two are meant for each other: they both want to protect each other from physical and emotional harm at the cost of them getting physically and emotionally hurt. Oh the irony!

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Agree with you on the International Edit versus SBS edit on the break up scene. While reading this recap I was also confused because to me it was clear that So broke with Su not only because of King JeongJeong but because he needed to gain the support of General Park.

On another note, Jonghyun is a breath of fresh air here. I've only scene monotonous acting from some of his works, that this drama stands out really really well for him.

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Even when Hae Su tells him that he’s lying when he says he no longer has the same feelings for her; he KNOWS it’s a lie, but his retort is SO CUTTING: “We said we’d no longer lie to each other.”

I KNOOOOOWWW!!!! That scene was so painful, but brilliantly done. It hurts to watch, but at the same time it's not hard to see why it's come to this point because So's devastation over Eun's death, his hurt that Su didn't trust him, his newfound determination to have the throne and sacrifice his relationship with Su to gain it if he had to, and his awareness of Su being in constant danger if she was known to still be 'his' person - and Su's own belated realisation that her visions aren't what she thinks they are- all lead them there.

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Great insights, especially about Wang So's words being almost an echo of her earlier (hurtful) remarks to him.

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You are so right! ??? As much as I love Wang So and Su together I know it's the beginning of the end for them. Lady Oh's words about men changing because of the throne is totally going to come back to hurt Su. But Su can't change and neither will Wang So's destiny, it's all so bitter and sad. Despite how pure their love is. Ugh I'm going to be so upset come the final week of this show aren't I? ??

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@V
Ouuu...those wise words by Court Lady Oh.
At that time all i could think was in context to Wook and how completely possible it was. I believed he was too weak to truely fight for his and Soo's love and if he had ended up on the throne, Soo would be resigned to Lady Oh's position. Just like the King Taejo and Lady Oh's situation. At that time i was sure Su would do things differently. He would always pick Soo.
But here we are. Things have changed and people have grown and priorities are now different. And i dont fault anybody for that. Now those words are meant for Soo and Su.
Although its heartbreaking,its great to see how much our characters have grown over the course.
Lets brace ourselves for the hurt in the final episode. :'(

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I have a theory. I wonder if So is actually Lady Oh's son. And the queen was forced to claim him as her own by the king, in order to protect him. It explains why she maimed him in response to the death of her eldest son (which would ruin his chance to ascend to the throne). And why she hated him enough to use him for flaming arrow target practice and then send him off to a heartless deathtrap exile. And why she treats him differently from her other children.

To get to the point...if that develops. Maybe there's hope that the story breaks from BBJX and So decides to break from the tradition that tore his parents apart. To protect the one he loves... And of course, only to have her disappear back to the present. ;-)

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Possible I guess but Lady Oh's only partiality that I saw was for Mu. I have thought once or twice fleetingly that her real son might have almost died only to revive - different. Like Su and Ji Mong. Enough difference, this changeling child, that she could not feel he was hers. And as well give a reason why he could come back to the future with memories of Su.

But I don't think so. It would totally deflate the really malicious relationship she has with him based on Taejo's spurned love and her own guilt. Madame Medea. What I'm really looking forward to is a final showdown between them, with questions asked and answered. I don't know if we'll go there but I really hope we do.

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That's me Seltzerwater on both comments, stupid DB commenting ate my name.

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You know, I seriously think the reason why the writer made such a deep complicated story and scenes for Wang So is because it is LJG.

And now that I reanalyze the episodes from the first to now, it is proven.

first the Wang So- LJG has the most experience and his weight of performance need a sufficient character development.
Wook- KHN, not so much experience but great raw talent with his experience in musical, thus Wook has becoming a dark complicated character with interesting character development also.
Hae Soo - IU has the least, hence Soo's very simple minded, especially when we can't differentiate pity expression and surprised, or scared?
Wang Yo - HJH debut longer than KHN but less experience, thus Yo's simple path from obedient son to mad king.
Wang Moo- I dunno how well KSH acting is, so far in here his role is pretty simple and I haven't hear much of his drama. Maybe just marketing issue? or managerial issue?

What do you think?

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I disagree though on Soo distrust him first. So did it first by not telling Soo who he was looking for. If he trust that Soo won't blabber or panic, he would tell her that he is looking for Eun. But no, he said he is looking for a "person" that is suspected of treason. If you were Soo, without knowing what So had been doing outside of you peripheral vision ( unlike us who seen every single sacrifice So did), would you tell So?

So is doing that to protect Soo, but Soo is also doing that to protect him. She doesn't want his hand to get bloodied, either he volunteer to kill Eun because of Yo or because of Eun own request, his hand will still be bloodied. Soo used that justification for herself not to tell So. Which if we all see from her POV it does makes sense. She wants to push So as far away from the scenario as possible. She didn't care what's the reason, she just want to prevent it. Although she also didn't know that fate will still unfold, the only difference is the path. Because of her So will be a more benevolent king and leader. She did her role very well. She serve for a greater cause with sacrifice on So and her own love and maybe life.

However, Soo will always has to live with that guilt and So will always have to live with that doubt that wedge that Eun's death create in between them.

Yo deliver the best blow for them two through Eun, because from now on we all know their romance will ended up tragically. In a way, Eun got his revenge. Remember when he woke up in his wedding night and call Soo a liar, I'm willing to say he wants Soo to feel the same pain of broken heart.

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Yes! And this is confirmed by the dialogue in the scene when Hae Su explains to Wang So that she hid Eun because she also worried that he would have to do something he regret. I was so happy to see those lines being spoke because it really confirmed to me that HS had examined the situation and found the best of the worst options. At the last minute, she decided to heed SD's advice and tell WS, but alas it was too late. That's not something I'm willing to fault her on.

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ok, I'm not sure whether this is down to a difference in versions, but So DID tell Su later that Eun was the one he was looking for - and that he intends to help them escape on a boat if he finds them. Basically, he gave her full information, even if he didn't do it immediately. Which is what makes her continued silence even more hurtful to him despite the letter.

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Yes!!!

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Did anyone else catch So's breath stuttering when Soo asked him if he still loved her? Damn LJK does nothing wrong in my eyes. Brilliant actor.

Also can someone please help me interpret the title of this drama, Moon Lovers? I don't really get the moon imagery? Is it linked to the water myth they've weaved through the story?

And lastly in the international preview Soo bites her lip and So stares at her mouth CHEEZUS I need to know the context of that scene!

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Su's the moon (yes, moon-water(earth)-woman are a tripartate of synonymous or closely associated symbols), and the princes are the heavenly palace suns (sons) that love her, in particular Wook, whose name means rising sun, and So, who is associated with a lot of setting sun imagery. Her first love, rising sun Wook, and last love, setting sun So, in love with moon/water maiden Su.

All relating to the eclipse, of course, a time when a moon (water/earth woman) determines events rather than the sun (sky-prince-men) in its shadow.

Su's creating an alternate history to the one that would have been (a history without Yo) if she were not there, but I suspect only in the details - the eclipse ends and the woman will be forgotten to history - history regains its shape after a few detours during Su's timetravel - but possibly with a fundamental difference in So's rule that wouldn't have been possible without her.

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actually So (or at least the Chinese character for So) means brightness, light :)

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I know. And Wook's means rising sun. But if you watch the first episodes, So often has the setting sun behind him.

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as expected from LJG, this man is Korea's national treasure. his acting is unbelievably good

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....and with that comes LJG's national treasure of a cliff too

Sageuk Cliff, a faux death sentence for Sageuk related deaths. Mortality rate is 0% since its first death attempt.

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I hope to see LJG in a rom-com next, he hasn't done one since My Girl! And My Girl doesn't really count since he's 2nd male lead.... Not that I don't love his sageuks though hehe

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Arang was the last thing he did that had romcom-ish elements or maybe I just remember those more because of Shin Mina.

Agreed that oppa needs to do another romcom, it's been way too long since the last one. That gaze turned on Lee Da-hae.....oof.

BUT he needs a solid script, and equally important, a good costar who actually has chemistry with him and isn't just there to look pretty (his record on that front has been patchy).

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@pogo, my thoughts exactly! He needs an actress of his calibre. I do not feel that Su loves So as much as he loves her, and it is solely because of LJK's acting. His expressions, when he is with her, are so varied and affecting, and she returns with the same blank stare.
When he is forced to kill his brother, and ends with that despairing, hysterical laugh, my hair practically stood on end, he was so full of anger and self-loathing and sorrow it was like Romeo shouting out, "I am fortune's fool!"
And IU stares. Besides the fact that she has a bland sort of beauty, and used to be cheerful, I really can't see why practically every Prince fell for her. She just can't make it believable.

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@pogo

He definitely needs a good leading lady, and good supporting cast for the drama to be a hit. I feel like Shin Minah and Nam Sangmi were solid actresses and the dramas he starred with them were a hit

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@skelly - I honestly don't find IU blank, and certainly not in the second half of the show. Her going blank in the wake of Eun's death felt like a character reaction to shock and grief, rather than the forced eye-widening of the early episodes. And I actually like them together as leads, despite her imperfections it's quite easy to root for them together.

@cherryarrow - I'd kill for a repeat with Shin Mina because they had lovely chemistry in Arang. But after Joseon Gunman, I'll take a hard pass on Nam Sang-mi, they looked like siblings and the attempts at chemistry just felt so forced. He did have fantastic chemistry with Jeon Hye-bin though, despite the fact that things were supposed to be one-sided from her end.

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@pogo

Yeah his chemistry with Nam Sangmi was ok, but she's a good actress, and they had a solid plot with awesome supporting actors. Haha about Jeon Hyebin, I think they dated/are dating even though their company denied!

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I mean, I don't think Nam Sang-mi is a bad actress, just that she wasn't very good in that role and her character was built up to be this enlightened scientific-leaning young lady but ended up as underwhelming as any damsel in distress. Plus the lack of spark with Jun-ki, which made it hard to care about their romance.

I think part of the reason I don't mind Su's general uselessness as much is because even if she's not 'kicking ass', the story doesn't present her as if she's supposed to. So it's easier to live with what we do have.

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I agree that he needs a good costar opposite him, but I actually like him with IU, their age difference really doesn't show and they match so much better than his couples in Iljimae and Joseon Gunman.

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Basically as long as the actress isn't the bland type or terrible, I think he has chemistry with them. But it has to be someone with some feel to their acting, an ok but bland a tress like Han Ji Min or Shin Se Kyung type etc will not do. Younger actress is fine as long as she can act, like Kim Go Eun or Kim Ji Won.

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@Kivan And lastly in the international preview Soo bites her lip and So stares at her mouth CHEEZUS I need to know the context of that!-- Yes 1000%!!! They both look so flirtatious. Finally, bring on the flirting. :)

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I love that Lee Jun-ki makes you FEEL exactly what his character is feeling, with just the flicker of an eye. And I've been feeling it every time he looked at Su - you can see perfectly well exactly what effect she has on him, it's all there in his face. He's just so good, it's unfair.

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@pogo Exactly! The slightest change evokes so much emotion. LJK is amazing. Love his acting.

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I swear, I've never been prouder as a fan, even though I'm really hacked off at the drama itself for not living up to him.

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Indeed. Read something on Instagram where LJK is quoted as saying he is upset by the ratings and is questioning what he did wrong.. Feels a responsibility as the main lead.

He did nothing wrong. The powers that be in editing, writing and directing did a disservice to this great crew and cast.

Why do I feel like I state this more and more these days? CITT, UF, MLSHR.. all really great dramas with great leads. Let down by other elements.

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:(

This messy production doesn't deserve him. They really don't. And they've let the entire cast and the drama itself down.

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I can't wait for sub so every week I watch raw episodes. What I find amazing is that without sub I still understand perfectly what Wang So was feeling and saying. When I watch the subbed episode the next day I never find anything more. The dialog just does not add *that* much in the end. His facial expressions and microexpressions already say it all. (I don't have this with other characters, or maybe a little bit with some characters.) Lee Joon Gi is really really really good!

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For all I've cussed out Kim Kyu-tae and his love of close-ups, I have to say he knew his stuff when he turned that camera on Jun-ki.

And you're right about the not-needing the subs for dialogue thing. He says enough with just his face, I don't need words to ecplain how So's feeling, or his reaction in a particular moment.

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I´m so glad your review includes both of the deleted scenes in the international version! I searched for them like crazy yesterday. I´m like a headless chicken looking for every different frame between them, so I don´t miss a thing in this drama. Aghhh! So frustrating!!!!

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HeadsNo recap the SBS (korea) version. So we're lucky if there's more scenes in SBS than the international version.

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I´m surprised they didn´t include Woo-Hee´s conversation with the king in the international version. I think it´s very important. That woman has been nasty from the very beginning, ruining things everywhere. Baek Ah let it pass previously... but now? Will he forgive her again, now that she´s harming So?

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I'm more curious if So will let it pass,i i fear he will send a message to all of those who hurt/use/betrayed him...

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And what if Jung gets his hands on this information first? That'll even be more interesting since he's got a (stupid) grudge against So and some brotherly hate against Baek-ah.

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I don't understand why he hates BaekAh now? They used to be good friends earlier, is it only because Baek Ah is close to So? And he blamed So for killing Eun? But how is he still so angry at So but calm with Yo who not only ordered the killing but shot Eun with two arrows personally? So only did it as a mercy killing.

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That's basically it. Jung doesn't really have any alliances, well, none that I know of that is, so Baek-ha just happens to be the friend of the guy he hates to the core. Jung has this notion that, you're just as bad as the company you keep.

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I just want to chime in here to say how disappointed I've been by Jung.

He strikes me as someone who's been in the privileged position of having been coddled and looked out for all his life, and thus doesn't need to have alliances, as @yoyo mentioned. He's probably in the safest position among the princes in Yo's reign, by virtue of being his mother's favourite son. So no motivation for him to look out for others, or to try to understand others whose actions fall out of his norm. Which makes him an unlikeable character to me.

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@Lemon Meringue - yeah, count me in on Team Jung Is A Disappointment too.

But I still think he's an interesting character, simply because of the sheer wilfulness with which he keeps up that conflict with So. Like he knows in his heart that So isn't actually to blame for his mother and #3 brother being assholes, or for Eun's death, but it's easier for him to blame So than accept the truth about the people who raised him. And it's doubly tragic because if he were just less stubborn, Jung might actually have discovered he has more in common with So than any of his other brothers.

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"Like a headless chiken".........gold line...it made my day..:)

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I actually think that Yo sees zombies scene in the SBS version should have been cutting room floor. It was terrible.

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I think this time the international version (subbed with Chinese subs at the bottom),was actually better.

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@Ren

Agree. I'm glad I watched the international version first. Yo came across more sympathetic, layered and realistic, compared to the totally unglued psycho in the SBS version.

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I actually like the totally unglued psycho that was constantly banging on a gong version of Yo.

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:D

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I got the youku version first, and while I enjoy bang-a-gong Yo, I'm actually feeling a little sorry for him, for what he's become. Sad monster indeed.

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Am i the only one who thinks the time jump was necessary to show how the reigns of the current king (Mu and Yo) passed by? I don't have any problem with it at all. I'm actually anticipating more time jumps because GwangJong ruled for 26 years. Of course they won't cover all of it but if the show tackles his reign, marriage to YH and love story to Soo. That's a lot for remaining 4 episodes.

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I heard MLSHR will only cover Soo's journey in Goryeo for 10 years. I don't know though what's gonna happen after her 10 years is over. Maybe she'll be back to present, maybe she'll die in Goryeo, or maybe she'll live happily forever and after with So in Goryeo.

I think Soo has been in Goryeo for... uhmmm... how long? 6 years now? So we got 4 years left?

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Wow. That's a nice info. Yeah i think she's been in Goryeo for 6 years.

My ideal ending would be wherever. As long she's with So. ?

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In my ideal ending, So rebuffs Su for all the things he has been forced to do for her sake, the final one being - no doubt this is where they are taking us - that he kills Jung when Jung flies at him in a jealous rage for 'defiling' So, his intended bride (although Su would not know that at the time). So will blame it all on Su, but suddenly there is an eclipse and she faints and Wook catches her. They are both transported back to modern times and they live happily ever after because he has somehow earned it with all of his Goryeo angst.
The last three glorious episodes will feature Su, reconstructing his country and helping Yeo-hwa see the error of her ways and become a good queen and a decent human being along the way.

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Me too. But I don't think this drama will give us that :(

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Hi everyone, I just wanted to ask since the music and the directing are often named as the two biggest flaws in the drama. Who should of been Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo's director? I believe a fellow Beanie has already done one for music a few episodes back. So I want to pose the question of the director to you guys and would love to hear your opinions. I'm sorry if this is already been asked before.

The only director I thought of was Kim Byung-Soo the director of Queen In-Hyun's Man, Nine and The Three Musketeers etc. i everyone , I just wanted to ask since the music and the directing are often named as the two biggest flaws in the drama. Who should of been Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo's director? I believe a fellow Beanie has already done one for music a few episodes back. So I want to pose the question of the director to you guys and would love to hear your opinions. I'm sorry if this is already been asked before.

The only director I thought of was Kim Byung-Soo the director of Queen In-Hyun's Man, Nine and The Three Musketeers etc.

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I actually like the songs of this drama separately,as individual songs, but like others hate it as the ost. The rap parts are too jarring for a sageuk.

I don't know the music director's name but i nominate "The Princess' man" music director. IMO he/she did an excellent job. Its one of my all time favourite sageuk,and i became a life long fan of Moon Cha won after it. Although its now ruined for me and i cant bring myself to watch it again.

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Totally agreed!!! Also, just fyi, the music director's name is Lee Ji-yong and he's a male :D

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An ode to Soon-deok and Eun:

And so, the beginning of the end. Soon-deok stood steadfast to the bitter end, taking that blow meant for Eun and dying in his arms. Was I surprised that she was the one doing most of the fighting? No, because that's Soon-deok, through and through. I'm so sorry that she never managed to say any last words to him, but were they needed, when her eyes said everything for her? In her last moments she was still there for Eun when he needed her, and that's more than enough for Soon-deok, we know. Z.Hera was great til Soon-deok's dying breath.

All the focus on Eun actually paid off. In his final moments he was with his wife, and damn Baekhyun really was at his best here. The helplessness with which he called out Soon-deok's name, the way he cried out for her not to go--so, so much pain. And when he was shot by Yo's arrows, oof. He was willing, for once, to not think simply for himself but for Soon-deok instead. He was willing to die because he didn't want her to leave alone. That in itself is tragically noble.

What I really appreciated the most, though, was the callback to that fateful birthday party for Eun. I believe most of us started tiring of Eun then, what with his insanely childish antics and his tendency to believe Yo's words at the drop of a dime. He went along with whatever his older siblings told him to and didn't seem to have a mind of his own, ever. However we now get to see Eun denounce Yo: I'd believed Eun genuinely thought he was merely joking, and that he wouldn't remember anything since So had so readily let it go. But Eun didn't--he kept it in his heart and never forgot about how he'd treated So, and how So magnanimously forgave him in return. It's the ultimate placement of faith and trust in So, that Eun would rather die by his sword than bleed out from Yo's arrows.

It's also evident of Eun's maturation, to go from asking So to remove his mask just because he was the birthday boy, to now requesting So to deal him the killing blow not just because he wanted to go with Soon-deok, but because he finally had the courage and ability to stand up against someone like Yo. He couldn't do it in life, but Eun went bravely in death. And for Eun and Soon-deok to have died together is some sort of twisted comfort, because at least they now have each other. They will never be apart again.

In the spirit of MLSHR's love of poems, I dedicate this to Eun and Soon-deok:

此情可待成追憶 只是當時已惘然
And a moment that ought to have lasted forever
Has come and gone before I knew

李商隱 錦瑟
Li Shangyin, The Inlaid Harp

They couldn't grow old together in life, but now they are forever with each other in death. Goodbye Soon-deok, goodbye Eun. If there is a next life, please run a toy shop. Teach martial arts. Have two sons and two daughters. Love each other before it's too late, and never, never let go of your moments together ever again.

Goodbye.

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Also: Thanks for the recap Heads ;) Hong Jong-hyun's transformation from power-greedy prince personally partaking in the murder of his half-brother to deranged tyrant desperately knocking on gongs to pray for absolvement of said murder is breathtaking. Look at how the life's practically extinguished in his eyes--it's AMAZING. He's upped his game so much, he's practically holding the fort with Lee Joon-gi now that Kang Ha-neul gets three lines max per episode. Seriously enjoying his performance so much, and feeling super sorry he needs to go next episode.

Also also: Won just you wait. You'll get yours, you conniving shameless douchenozzle.

Also also also: I'm glad we're at Gwangjong's reign now. Let the pain begin.

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Agree. Hong Jong Hyun is brilliant. For me, it's him, Lee Jun Ki and Kang Ha Neul that truly shine in the later half of this drama, though LJK and KHN were consistent from the very beginning.

And Baekhyun was unbelievably good in that death scene. Ji Soo has been mediocre but he also did wonderful in Eun's death scene as well, even though he went back to being mediocre for the entire episode. I just think that saeguk is not meant for Ji Soo, too bad because I love him so much in "Page Turner".

I practically resigned with IU's O_O expression. The scene where she slumped to the ground when So was cutting Eun came off so unnatural to me.

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Hong Jong-hyun has been outstanding the last few episodes. I think working alongside Lee Joon-gi has helped him, as it has with Baekhyun and Nam Joo-hyuk.

@pogo mentioned in a previous recap that Lee Joon-gi helps to elevate the acting of his co-stars who share a scene with him, and I think that's obvious in Eun's death scene. Baekhyun did a great job, and it was a great way for him to make his exit.

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Yeah Hong Jong Hyun is actually great as Yo, he shows his madness and at the same time his pitiable side, so well. This is the best performance I ever saw from him too.

I don't understand why IU is criticised for the death scene though? People go blank with shock, I thought that the expression she had was very clearly a deeper shock than the one where she finds herself in Goryeo, she did beautifully in that scene from her slumping to the ground to her grabbing Jung to tell him that it wad Eun's last wish to die at So's hands. I didn't feel the acting, I felt everyones grief including hers.

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Yes, blank with shock is a valid response here, and if this had been the first or maybe even the second time we had seen her go blank with shock, I could certainly go along with it - but she goes blank with shock all the time, and so Eun's death seems just just another day at the office, Goryeo style.

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@skelly if you find it so hard to admit IU actually did well in that scene then at least find a different part of her performance to pick on, please. Everyone's acting was good in Eun's death scene, even Baekhyun who was horrible before.

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agree 100% on Hong Jonghyun. He was amazing in the different ways he's portrayed Wang Yo throughout the drama. I actually liked Yo these past few episodes - never thought I would but he's actually pretty sympathetic

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I definitely think that Hong Jong-hyun's put a lot of work and effort into making Yo work as a character, one that's sympathetic even. The way that Yo's descending into madness because of his immense guilt is so great to watch, on a technical level, because you can see Hong Jong-hyun really enjoy acting this character out, which is super wonderful.

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It's proven, this show does death scenes so well....

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I swear when the death scene theme started to play, I was a goner. So, so well done.

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Damn you, kumoiwa - I started crying again reading your post!

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Beautiful tribute kumoiwa. It brought back the tears.

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Aw @Barbrey! It's ok, I think tears are the best way to send off Eun and Soon-deok, because even though their deaths were senseless, they did pave the way for Gwangjong.

@toodles: Thank you :) So much tears for the sweet, kind children that were Eun and Soon-deok. I'm still not over how they didn't manage to hold hands before they died, weeps.

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yes i noticed the moment soondeok was slashed and died, eun pretty much lost all his will to live. even when he was shot in the arms, he didn't retaliate at all. among all the lovelines in the show, soondeok and eun's is the purest and the simplest one.. which in a cruel world like early goryeo, is the key recipe to doom..

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It says a lot, doesn't it, that life holds nothing any longer for Eun now that Soon-deok is gone. He put it perfectly himself--Soon-deok only has him, but isn't the same for Eun? His grandfather, mother, aunt, and father are all dead. The one person who loves him more than her life herself has just been murdered in front of his eyes. What is there to hold on in life?

I also really liked that he used his death as a protest of sorts, that he would die by the hand of So than at the arrows of Yo, an usurper who was willing to frame and murder his way to the throne. It means even more, when you consider Eun to be the least politically savvy of the entire princely cast. For him to stand up to Yo like that, just, wow. Thank you for growing up, Eun. I'll miss you just as much as I'll miss Soon-deok.

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Don't forget the earlier part at the cliff where So stopped Wook from killing Yo with an arrow, saying that Yo does not deserve to die like a hunted animal. I think the same thinking is also why Eun would rather So kill him honourably than to be shot to death by Yo. And it also explains why So agreed to Eun's request.

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So true. Isn't it sad that Yo can't see the similarities in his pseudo-death at the cliff and the predicament he's put Eun in? But I guess when you're blinded by the need to legitimise your claim to power, it doesn't matter anymore.

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Oh Soon-deok, you really were the best. She was completely loyal, pragmatic, patient and throughout everything upbeat. With all of this, Soon-deok could have across like a Mary Sue character, but for some reason she never did to me.

Like the Mu and Ji-Mong friendship, I didn't really get to appreciate the relationship between Soon-deok and General Park until it was too late. I love the notion of a hardened military man who let his daughter do whatever she wanted and threw his full support behind her decisions, even if it meant taking someone like Eun as in-law, who would not have been his choice in partners for her. It's a such stark contrast to the father-daughter relationship between King Taejo and Yeon-hwa who consistently feels like nothing more than a pawn piece.

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Soon-deok had all the qualities that a Mary Sue would dream of possessing, but Z.Hera really made her character come across as sincere and grounded. She imbued Soon-deok with the right amount of innocence and maturity, and when Eun was flighty, she was always there to pull him back down. I really like that Soon-deok anchored their relationship, and Eun recognised that and was willing to die for her as she did. This mutual recognition of their love was really what made me cry the most.

That's a super observation! The way the relationship between General Park and Soon-deok paralleling Taejo and Yeon-hwa is so sad. One is a model example of how to parent, while the other is, well, just sad. You can't really blame Taejo, and neither can you blame Yeon-hwa, because their circumstances don't allow for much mercy on their end. But for General Park to have been a father who respected his daughter's wishes and accepted everything about her. I'm so sorry he lost a daughter to the machinations of the palace, because that's a horrible way to go. But he was a wonderful father, which is rare to see in this version of Goryeo. And for that, I think Soon-deok was fortunate.

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@kumoiwa, this line from the poem very appropriately expressed the tragic and regretful ending for SD and Eun.
Your post has touched me, you wrote it with your heart indeed.

I love Li Shangyin’s poems, they are so emotionally passionate and poignant, he’s my favourite Tang poet. Just like the song "Will Be Back" by Im Sunhae, the beautiful poems evoked a sorrowful yet romantic mood which enhanced our viewing experience and our appreciation of MLSHR.

I would also like to dedicate a poem from Li Shangyin to Su for her two year separation from So in this ep. It very closely describes her emotions when she eagerly waited for So by the lake, and the way she pinned her longing for So by imitating his writing style when she repeatedly writing out the poem he previously sent her. This poem below also serves as a preamble to Su's eventual tragic estrangement from So which will have them yearning for each other till Su's death.

來是空言去絕蹤，月斜樓上五更鐘
夢為遠別啼難喚，書被催成墨未濃
Unable to fulfil your promise of coming to me as you left without a trace,
Yet I'm waiting for you till the moon above the tower set at dawn.
Crying out for you in my dreams is futile as you’re distancing away,
Yet before the ink has thickened, I’ve ardently written out the yearning for my love.

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I'm going to add another Li Shangyin poem which is aptly about a Court Lady sneaking out to have a late night meeting with her lover.

The East wind sighs, the fine rains come:
Beyond the pool of water-lilies, the noise of faint thunder.
A gold toad gnaws the lock. Open it. burn the incense.
A tiger of jade pulls the rope. Draw from the well and escape.
Jia's daughter peeped through the screen
when Han the clerk was young,
The goddess of the river left her pillow for the great Prince of Wei.
Never let your heart open with the spring flowers:
One inch of love is an inch of ashes.*

*the burning of a candlestick.

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We chose the same poem, wow! Li Shangyin's no-title poems are the best.

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Oh my goodness, I like your translated version way better! Li Bo is actually my favourite Tang poet, but I think that's just because I have a weird propensity for drunk poets. :/

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I took it from my Tang poetry ebook! My favourite Tang poet has to be Meng Haoran--there's something about the way he wrote that is super enchanting. And I definitely see the appeal in Li Bai, because his word choice and creations are fantastic!

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As I'm a hopeless sentimentalist, my favourite is Li Shangyin, when I was in high school (that was so many years ago!), I always practised writing his poems repeatedly on my notebook (just like what Su was doing) when my mind strayed off from the boring lessons. lol.

btw, I posted my reply to you below, but it was awaiting moderation, so I don't know if it will get through or not?

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@kumoiwa ooh I wasn't aware of Meng Haoran's work at all! It comes across as very earnest and his imagery is incredibly tactile. @Pebble haha I actually hope our modern Su would be more forthright and direct in her communication.

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Have I ever told you, you guys blow my mind? And I thought I was a geek <3

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Thank you @Pebble! I really enjoyed your explanation of the Wang Wei poem a few recaps back too :) I felt very strongly for Eun and Soon-deok, so I tried my best to write this.

Li Shangyin's poems are so amazing, because compared to the nature lover/calm wanderer style of Wang Wei and Co., he's so passionate and sensuous. It's a wonderful poetry style to describe the relationships we see in MLSHR, and your choice of one of his no-title poems is fantastic! That last line is so apt and appropriate for Su and So's ending, which entwines calligraphy and one last yearning letter. I really adore how it shows the depth of the love that So and Su have for each other, though this reads more like a Su poem to me. I can see her writing at her desk already, penning a letter that may be her last. Ahhhh so beautiful!

I personally find his no-title poems to be part of his best work, because you can literally feel the pain and anguish of the poet through the carefully curated characters. He's incredibly amazing, so I picked another poem in response to yours! It's also from one of his no-title poems and I found it suitable for the forthcoming end of So and Su:

春心莫共花爭發 一寸相思一寸灰
Must human hearts blossom in spring, like all other flowers?
And of even this bright flame of love, shall there be only ashes?

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Two more lines from Li Shangyin, who really is a genius and writes about wretched lovers parted from each other so well (again, from one of his no-title poems):

相見時難離別亦難 東風無力百花殘
Time was long before I met here, but is longer since we parted
And the east wind has arisen and a hundred flowers are gone

春蠶到死絲方盡 蠟炬成灰淚始乾
And the silk-worms of spring will weave until they die
And every night the candles will weep their wicks away

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*her, not here

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@kumoiwa & @Ren, many thanks for sharing the poems, we are all getting sentimental with all these poetic indulgence :)

That line about silk worms and candles is one of his most famous works which is still widely quoted till this day. Like what you said, it was so well curated and conveyed such profound feelings!

I can see her writing at her desk already, penning a letter that may be her last.
Actually, this poem came to my mind immediately when I read the final chapter of BBJX, I shared the exact same sentiment as you @kumoiwa. As we do not know for sure how MLSHR will end eventually, so instead, I adapted this poem to express Su's yearning for So in this ep.

In the novel, Rouxi always chided herself for loving YZ in such a steadfast manner which was self-tormenting. As such she was always quoting the following which originated from the Dhammapada Buddhist scripture:
從愛生憂患, 從愛生怖畏; 離愛無憂患, 何處有怖畏？
是故莫愛著, 愛別離為苦。若無愛與憎, 彼即無羈縛。
Love begets worry, love begets trepidation.
Forsaking love eliminates worry, and so where is the fear?
As such, one should not engage in love.
Love and separation are deemed bitterly painful.
If there is no love and hate, there will also be no hindrance.

These Buddhist quotes are highly philosophical and meaningful, I'm wondering if MLSHR will also make reference to them in the upcoming eps?

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I heartily agree. Eun finally became a man in his final couple of episodes, and Baekhyun did a great job with them.

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This is so beautiful. Thank you kumoiwa!
Soon-doek has been my favorite character from the beginning too! She was brave, honest, and fair.

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That stargazing scene tho. I dunno but i swoon seeing how close their faces were while Soo said "Pe-ga-seu-seu" and So said "pesos".

Can i have that kind of moment with LJK? Pretty please?! Haha!

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So didn't leave Soo because of the trust issue...he left her because he had to show the general he was willing to throw away his person ...the general said he would see and then make his decision to help him get the throne or not. Also, because they would continue to be used against each other by the king. Anyway, that is my take.

Baekhyun (sp?) got a lot of grief for his portrayal early on, and I've always thought it was unfair because in the C-Drama that prince is portrayed in the early episodes in the same way by the Chinese actor. That's my recall anyway. I get that viewers who aren't familiar with that drama might not realize, but I hope he gets a little credit for a decent death scene. And to the writer for the "a gift only you can give me" sob.

I'm still loving this drama and find myself wishing they had 24 episodes to flesh out the politics in the 2nd half a bit more but oh well. I've enjoyed LJG in various roles but have to admit this might be my all time favorite.

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He left for various reasons and major 3 :
He was indeed mad and sad Soo didn't trust in him,to show the general his desire for the throne and get him on his team and because of Yo,because he would continue to use and torment her to get to him as well as making her his weakness in the Palace and be used for Yo dirty jobs,he did it for this things,not only one...Just like he went outside the Palace as well

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I just don't think the main thing was the trust issue but rather going for the crown. Which is fine, makes it more interesting.

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It really amazes me how the audience bully HaeSoo as much as the Goryeo characters bully WangSo.
After seeing the same reaction in my husband while watching Scarlet Heart I just couldn’t understand WHY? (WE WE WE WangWook style) people don’t understand HaeSoo reactions, emotions, decisions, doubts and acceptance.

Finally my husband and I decided to sit down and analyzed why our reactions are so different. I understood and agreed with Soo not telling So about Eun, I would have done the same. My husband got mad, frustrated and felt like an act of mistrust. So Why?

HaeSoo is my favorite character and one of the qualities that I like the most and admire is her uncorrupted loyalty to everyone she cares for. Not blindly love trust but smart trust. Not only to her lover, but to her friends, her family, to her ex, to Kings that tortured her. How much more loyalty can this woman have!
She has had 5 visions, Taejo dying, Mo dying, Yo dying, So standing, Eun dying. 2 of those visions happened exactly as how were supposed to happened.
Even The General (SoonDuk father) got scared, an threaten WangSo not to hurt her daughter, he knows So since he was little, he cares for him, he taught him how to kill ahhh is this mistrust? A man than knows him for so long knows what he is capable of doing, but her 3 year friend, 1 month girlfriend must blindly following him? I don’t see anybody flipping out over The General mistrust! Betrayal! Well is his daughter…
Well EUN is HaeSoo best and first friend!

In sequence of events, she sees So and he tells her he is going away to look for a traitor (he doesn’t say it’s Eun, he doesn’t say he is not going to do harm him). She finds out that they are hunting Eun OMG BETRAYAL! He didn’t say it was Eun who he was hunting and HaeSoo now knows and NOT by him. WTH! TOTAL BETRAYAL, ahh wait a minute, he must have had his reasons not to say, mmm, I wonder if HaeSoo is also allowed to keep things for herself, mmmm.

She saw So kneeling before Yo for her, he told her that he will TRY not to kill Wook, so it means if he has to he will. He suffered for almost killing Yo but he had to do it. He killed an entire temple of monks just for his mother. So has a good heart, he is a good person, he changed, he doesn’t raise his sword anymore for something trivial but she s that he will raised his sword for something he want to protect. She knows that he could raised his sword for something he believes, but that it’s something that could go against her moral views. She knows his only people are Baek ah and her. So it’s not like mmm, maybe, it could be, he is a psycho puppy that could kill Eun? NO NO NO she absolutely knows that he is going to kill Eun. The circumstances around his dead she didn’t know but EXCUSE ME are you seriously telling me that even if she knows that he is going to kill him she should have told him and not telling him is a sign of mistrust? How stupid would that had been? ....

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And because she didn’t say it that’s why Eun died? It could, you’re right, there is a possibility, but there is also a possibility that he would end up killing him anyways under Yo threats and by using Soo, there are 14,234.545 more possibilities that we don’t know.
Continuing the sequence she finds So and know (FINALLY) he tells her that he is looking for Eun and he is not going to hurt him. She doubts and considers it. Then with SoonDuk advice she realizes that she prefers to take the risk, she makes a decision and looks for So, waits for So, and then leaves a letter. It took her sometime but she decided for herself as an individual thinking about everyone she cares for not as a blind woman in love.
HaeSoo is the type of people that I would love to have as a friend, you know you can trust her and she will not betray you , she will simply not tell, even though she could tell her family, her other friends, her boyfriend. Not many people are like that nowadays.

So my husband agreed and understood but he said “your right, but it just killed me the scene at the river with Wook when she told him that she missed him after two years, now any sign of doubt I associated with mistrust” And I FINALLY UNDERSTOOD! I’ve been watching with my husband international version after I watched SBS live without subs, then with subs, then international. He has only seen the international version. The dialog and some key phrases changed EVERYTHING, and give a whole new perspective to HaeSoo’s character. If you think about it its actually really fascinating ☺ haha makes me want to write my own story! Of course its annoying but we get to see 2 different versions of a show that with some things it changes completely changes the character. That’s the beauty of a good story it inspires you! but yes, in the international version HaeSoo’s actions are sometimes ambiguous and not easy to understand and empathizes. But SBS versions it makes so much sense! So I would definitely recommend watching SBS before international.

And to all the blindly in love people that trust and follow So I just want to say be cautious like Soo. After her dumb ex in 21st century, her best friend betrayal, after Wook, I am happy to see that even though she loves So she is now more cautious. A strong-smart-woman in love! Don’t forget Lady Oh’s words, the palace changes people. Hundreds used to love Wook and would never imagine what he did, are you telling me that you are 100% sure that So will not change?

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i agree with you there! regarding haesoo not telling so about sipdeok's hideout.

i guess the way soo thinks was as long as eun and deok didnt meet so, there would be no way they would die. besides, they had designed the perfect plan for them to escape.

soo was left with two options: 1. telling so and let fate decides how things will turn out (bcs yes she trusts him but she also has her visions) OR 2. not tell so and just make sure eun doesn't encounter him at all.

logically speaking, would 2 sound more assuring?

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Yes! Option no.2 all the way! Thank you! I'm glad I'm not alone in my crazy thoughts! ?

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tbvh I just think it because everything is this drama happen too fast without enough backup scene for a different interpretation or the real interpretation
no scene deep enough to give impact so everything is taken at the face value,
you'll be shocked at how many viewer don't get the character motivation when they didn't read the comment section, it's a lot,

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You are absolutely right! The lack of dialogue and voiceover is insane! If it weren't for the amazing cast each and all of them I would be lost and I would've quit!

And also thanks to the devoted fans that fill all the gaps. There are so many interpretations and theories that I learn and changed all the time! There r also fanfics, very steamy haha but I love it! Thanks cast! Thanks fans!

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I've been reading the recaps weekly as it comes out but I've only just started to watch it recently (there's only so much you can do before giving in to watching ljk, close ups notwithstanding). After watching the international (re)broadcast version on tv and then coming back to read the recaps, I do realize the editing causes some subtle perspective changes. I would like to know (if any beanies can help), what sites do you go to for the English subbed version of the Korean broadcast?

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http://kissasian.com/Drama/Scarlet-Heart-Ryeo

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Watch it on kissasian

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@dabbs boxasian

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Thanks @EliRod and @Maui !

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@ELiRod: I agree with you that Hae Soo was trying to protect Eun and Soon Deok because she knows circumstances may force Wang So to kill Eun (as in fact did happen). As you said,

"The circumstances around his dead she didn’t know but EXCUSE ME are you seriously telling me that even if she knows that he is going to kill him she should have told him and not telling him is a sign of mistrust? How stupid would that had been? ….And because she didn’t say it that’s why Eun died? It could, you’re right, there is a possibility, but there is also a possibility that he would end up killing him anyways under Yo threats and by using Soo, there are 14,234.545 more possibilities that we don’t know."

Her mistake is thinking she might be able to prevent her vision, but she has to try. As it happens, the actions are there but the meaning (the flavor, the intention) is different. It makes no difference and simultaneously makes all the difference.

"In sequence of events, she sees So and he tells her he is going away to look for a traitor (he doesn’t say it’s Eun, he doesn’t say he is not going to do harm him). She finds out that they are hunting Eun OMG BETRAYAL! He didn’t say it was Eun who he was hunting and HaeSoo now knows and NOT by him."

I was also taken aback when So doesn't tell her that he's been assigned to hunt down Eun and that he won't harm him. A little honesty or straightforwardness on his part might have made some difference to her (though I don't know that for sure: she might still have hidden Eun from So). (Seriously, WHY didn't he tell her?)

This event was foreshadowed by Hae Soo hiding Jung in her room from So, who was hunting him on royal orders. She flat-out lied to So, mostly to keep the brothers from clashing, I think. She badly wants to prevent the brothers from having any reason or excuse to do violence to each other. Of course, after that incident So asked her not lie to him, and promised he would do the same. Sigh.

This show is like an examination of the 1,001 ways that love dies.

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@Jamie that was nice! Thank you! You gave me perspectives that I haven't though about but are so clear. It's exactly what happened with Jun, I don't know why didn't think of that.

"Her mistake is thinking she might be able to prevent her vision, but she has to try. As it happens, the actions are there but the meaning (the flavor, the intention) is different. It makes no difference and simultaneously makes all the difference."

I completely agree, even though I understood her and would've done the same it doesn't mean that now I (and Haesoo too) realized that it was a mistake.

"I was also taken aback when So doesn’t tell her that he’s been assigned to hunt down Eun and that he won’t harm him. A little honesty or straightforwardness on his part might have made some difference to her (though I don’t know that for sure: she might still have hidden Eun from So). (Seriously, WHY didn’t he tell her?)"

I guess we will never know. I was also surprised that she didn't reassure Soon duk's father that he wasn't gonna harm him? Was he not sure about that too? Was he doubting what would he do too? If that's the reason I would've love that, WangSo analysis himself on how much he has or hasnt changed. And if that would have been the case HaeSoo doubts would have been more understandable for him. It will still hurt like crazy but at least he could've empathize a little bit with her position. Even if he doesn't know about the visions.

"This show is like an examination of the 1,001 ways that love dies."

Haha I loved and hate it this because it's absolutely true. Find love, fight for it then suffer because your love is doomed! (Hahaha but crying ???? WangSo post-eun death style)

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*Correction
I was also surprised that HE didn’t reassure Soon duk’s father that he wasn’t gonna harm HER?

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My theory of why he didn't tell Soo in the beginning was because either:
1) He didn't want to put the burden of guilt on her, as she is the hostage that Yo was holding over his head.
2) Maybe he didn't want her to think badly of him, like those random guys at wherever So ad Baekah stopped for food? It's a bit weird since she has long stopped seeing him as brutal murderer, but now that they are in a relationship, he worries more??

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@EliRod: "I was also surprised that [So] didn’t reassure Soon duk’s father that he wasn’t gonna harm [her]? Was he not sure about that too? Was he doubting what would he do too?"

I thought that might be the case, too; because he's been forced to be the king's dog and he doesn't know what might happen. Anything can happen in such a charged situation: After all, he didn't mean to "kill" Yo, either. If he can have a little doubt about what the outcome of such an encounter might be, then rationally, so can Hae Soo: especially with her visions.

@Katherine: "My theory of why he didn’t tell Soo in the beginning was because either:
1) He didn’t want to put the burden of guilt on her, as she is the hostage that Yo was holding over his head.
2) Maybe he didn’t want her to think badly of him..."

You're right, both things are possible according to So's character and motivations! But this goes back to them both promising they wouldn't lie to each other, or conceal things. Now they both have, for understandable reasons...but this is a problem for their relationship and undermines their trust of each other to be open and honest, ultimately.

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@EliRod:

P.S. I appreciate your defense of Hae Soo both here and downthread. Most of us have felt a little (or a lot) frustrated by Hae Soo in the course of this show: we don't like how she has seemed to withhold herself from So for so long, or waver once she's committed herself to him, for instance.

But she's older and more experienced in the ways of the palace than she was in the beginning: she's seen Lady Oh die, seen how Wook changed, and she keeps having those awful visions and remembers history; and in fact So has changed.

Loving him will not stop the history she remembers from happening: even if history interprets his actions incorrectly (as we see happening with everyone's opinion of him forming, at the tavern and when he leaves the palace after Eun's death), the bare-bones action that took place really did happen.

Part of the reason this show is fascinating and frustrating is that the characters don't narrate their thought processes for us: we have to interpret, or guess, based on what we see; and we can get that interpretation wrong, like any other character in the show (like Jung, for instance).

The characters are full of human faults and contradictions, as well. I think that makes this show better than one that gives us more one-dimensional characters; but it is also possible that the opaqueness of Hae Soo's character is frustrating because it was not as well written as it could be, rather than because of hidden depth of feeling, thought, and motivation. We can argue that to the moon and back, lol.

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@Jamie,@EliRod, ....this episode does seem to test both So and Soo...and the definition of trust and lies.....both of them tell each other they will not lie, but there is an opening when they agree to simply not "share" or omit information if they are unable to tell the whole truth, and both So and Soo take full advantage of that escape route they both agreed on earlier. So doesn't tell Soo who the traitor he is looking for is , and Soo doesn't tell So she knows where that traitor is hiding...but despite both of their omissions of the whole truth, neither one of them is outright lieing...they're simply omitting or not sharing the whole picture with each other.....well within the confines of their previous agreement....so a full out betrayal isn't really happening here....

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@Maui: "..both of them tell each other they will not lie, but there is an opening when they agree to simply not “share” or omit information if they are unable to tell the whole truth, and both So and Soo take full advantage of that escape route they both agreed on earlier."

I thought what they agreed on was that if one questioned the other, in that circumstance they could say "I don't want to tell you": meaning, being clear and honest that there is something being concealed and that they have a reason for not saying. Neither of them did that.

Am I remembering wrong?

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@Jamie - So actually did tell Su that Eun was the one he'd been tasked with hunting down, only he said it after Eun was already in the Damiwon (his first disclosure to her about his mission was only that he was off to hunt down a traitor, but later in the episode he specified to Su that it was Eun) And he even told her he wanted to help them escape.

Which is why I think her not telling him right then, cuts even deeper - she KNEW his intentions, but still couldn't trust him with his brother's safety. Of course, from Su's perspective she's also trying to spare So an impossible choice, but in his eyes, she just showed that she didn't trust him enough, despite the letter.

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Thanks, pogo--I was remembering this wrong.

"Which is why I think her not telling him right then, cuts even deeper – she KNEW his intentions, but still couldn’t trust him with his brother’s safety. Of course, from Su’s perspective she’s also trying to spare So an impossible choice, but in his eyes, she just showed that she didn’t trust him enough, despite the letter."

It makes a difference, doesn't it?

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+1

Nicely done! The argument I was trying to make in my own head, too.

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That's very enlightening. O___O

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I don't think it was mentioned in the recap, but did anyone GASP at the moment when Wook slapped Jung's hand away from helping Su when the king was squeezing her hand? His reaction was so quick and it made me cringe so big. Oh, Wookie.

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Wook did that to protect Jung cause Yo was going mental.

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Wook was indeed protecting Jung.

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Wook is trying to avoid troubles, as always. And in this case, he is trying to keep Jung away from provoking Yo. I do feel disappointed, but I have to admit it saves them some troubles, who knows what you will get from an insane king? Soo may be hurt even more if he gets (more) angry. He does try to help her, though, by asking Yo to have a private talk (meaning without servants a.k.a. Soo around) after So knelt down and begged for mercy.
That's our Wook, calm and smart, always waits for the safe moment to act, and he will lend you a hand, as long as it does not cause him any trouble. He's a perfect man for politics, but since the real Wang Wook did not become king, all of his talents seem to be wasted in this drama.

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"That’s our Wook, calm and smart, always waits for the safe moment to act, and he will lend you a hand, as long as it does not cause him any trouble. He’s a perfect man for politics, but since the real Wang Wook did not become king, all of his talents seem to be wasted in this drama"

Yes. You said it perfectly. I can't believe how much I like Wook when I was so against him for just lingering around being Haesoo's object of affection in the early 11 episodes. With my love for Wook growing, my love for So (I am holding on to this love only because of Lee Jun Ki) is decreasing and all because of Haesoo.

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I'm someone whose fervent love for Wook has significantly cooled, so can you explain to me why you love him now? I'm very curious - I'm assuming it means more from a narrative standpoint than anything?

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We all know Wook is going nowhere, he is not going to be king but I like him better now since he has aim and purpose, unlike in the beginning - the good kind Wook but wandering around with no purpose, lusting after Haesoo only. I like that his character has motivation and knowing that he has to make a sacrifice to get what he wanted (though I could not necessarily agree with his method of getting it). Like I said, he knows how to act with situation and not letting his feeling getting in his way.

As for Wang So, at least I get to like him back at the end of episode 16 when he refused to give up his quest for the throne, even when Haesoo asked him to. For the past 7 episodes, he was just a love sick puppy, with no strong disposition and no determination. How could he ever convinced me that he could become King and I am too realistic to believe a man who said "I want to become a king if that is the only way I could win the girl's love". I am fine with him being romantic but politic is never simple especially in those period and his character was over romanticized that he became unpractical.

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@Del - “I want to become a king if that is the only way I could win the girl’s love”.

That's not even what So actually said, though - what he asked was whether, if he became king, he'd get Su? And the delivery of the line made it pretty clear he was being sarcastic - as in, he DIDN'T want the throne because he had other priorities in his life (Su), NOT that he wanted the throne if it was the only way to win Su. There's a difference in intention there, however small it may seem.

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it has been up and down with Wook character. One time I thought he's the chess master, driving everyone in the palace like a pawn, but the other time he's no where to be found, standing passive in the back. like, what's the big plan ? or, is there any? cause we know he's not going to be King, so I start to get the feeling he won't be the ultimate threat either. wasted, indeed.

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I guess that's the problem when you try to adapt a story based on Chinese history into Korean history. I was amazed at how things seemed to fit in, but not Wook's part. He has to be the 8th Prince, he has to be strong and excellent enough to be the 2nd lead, but while the Chinese 8th Prince did have strong support and sometimes came near the throne, Wang Wook never made it. Yinsi was only defeated by Yinzhen, but our Wook lost to Moo, Yo, and So?. I was so disappointed after he betrayed my love (sorry but I was so into him in the first half) but now I start to feel sorry for him. Being the 2nd lead, he was given a lot of potentials to be our lead's rival. Being a character who needs to be historically accurate, all those potentials have to go in vain. He has done a lot of things, betrayed Yo, poisoned Moo, pushed So to become a disgraceful and hated person, but always end up clearing others' road to the throne. He has never even come near it. Maybe we will have a twist at the end that Wook has pretended to be on the dark side all these times, he is actually the angelic character who sacrifies for others' happiness (I mean for helping his brothers become king ?)

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I liked this episode anyway. I agree having Eyeliner King go nuts because he killed the baby is seriously lazy writing. He should have stayed lean and mean. The least they could do is have him messing up politically somehow and going down that way. So now baby prince is gone along with Baekhyun. I guess some people won't be sad. ZHera is adorable and I'm looking forward to seeing her again in dramas.

Otherwise I didn't hate this episode. I've been watching the Chinese version. It's just as cheesy as the K version. Just in a different way, it's Chinese cheese. lol The story takes place over years. I mean to tell you, our girlfriend Su is stuck in the palace picking out tea sets and baking pastries for YEARS. The Chinese version just doesn't announce it with each jump. It "implies" and later in episode 16 or 17 she flat out says she's been working in the palace for 8 years. Now our girl at this point is still a virgin. Hasn't married anyone yet. This writer is lazy and ham handed. The editing is off the charts horrible. Still there are great moments in the drama, excellent chemistry between the cast so I'm in it till the end. I'm not ready to give up on IU and the boys until the last man is standing.

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Lol. Chinese cheese. Kind of agree that the C-version is cheesy as well but I love that the political plot being mapped out more clearly that the K-version and above all, Ruoxi has a good head on her shoulder, unlike our damsel in distress here.

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omg lmao @ Chinese cheese, -dead-

yeah the chinese version definitely does a better job at the time skip. the time skip in MLSHR seems so rushed and random... can't believe this is only 20 episodes

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I cried, and cried, and cried some more, especially when the death music from Ladies Hae and Oh starts up. I barely cared about So-Su after that. This was such a tragic and romantic episode.

For all mourners, you might remember I posted way back at the beginning that the little boy's name that Su jumped in to save was named Eun Yool, and that the first person she sees in Goryeo when she emerges is Eun, so it was very likely the little boy and Eun are the same soul. It is hard to see that drowning little boy's face - it's purposefully made vague behind a pillar and then in the water, but in shape and feature he looks much like the little Eun we saw giving Seon Deok a flower.

I understand LJK recently posted cryptically to Baekhyun that he would see him in the future. wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

I am very very certain we'll see Eun again.

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With Soon-deok and 2 sons and 2 daughters, please! T___T

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Nope, he'll be the little boy. But there is a little girl with a hoola hoop in that scene ...

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Haha I was actually watching the first episode just to see the face of the drowning boy, and I was surprised that they didn't show his face properly. How about the little girl playing hula hoops near the table? Doesn't she look a bit like Soondeok's child actress? The scene was so quick I couldn't see properly.

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Yeah the hula hoop girl - I looked at her closely but can't tell, she looks too tall I think - but I'm crossing my fingers!

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@Barbrey Wow! Did not make the connection between the drowning child and Eun. Need some time to process.

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yeah, I posted about it first in episode 2 I think? It explained to me why they made Eun so childish, as well, to draw that connection out.

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As always, your observations are on point and value added, Barbrey--thanks!

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Agree, WOW EUN is the child she saved.....

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zhera also posted a short poem (which was actually written by a fan on twitter) about meeting in the future :'( :'(

not to mention baekhyun commenting 'soondeok-ah..'

MY HEART I CANT T___T

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1. Jung's sideburns needs to go.
2. Yo suffered a heart attack and was hit by lightning??!!
3. Eun and Seon Dook's death ranks in 3rd in the Moon Lovers Scarlet Heart: Death series
4. This has now become the official death song of the show: https://youtu.be/7R3r6qJzgnU
5. The 64 million dollar question is, Did So/Su do it? Yes or No?

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2. Yo suffered a heart attack and was hit by lightning??!!

The Jurchen ambassador who paid him a visit was actually the one struck by lightning (poor dude, he was just doing his job). Yo was frightened into his heart attack by the sight of the charred corpse.

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I got my korean all mixed up again. I was up reaaallllly early to catch the live streaming, so yeah, no subs! Hee. So it was the monk all along that got hit. Hehehe thanks, Kumoiwa! Kamsamida!

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I watched the subbed sbs ver and in there yo only got his heart attack after experiencing hallucinations of eun and taejo.. Though i dont think that changes anything lol does it..?

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1. I think it shows that he has matured (Those Sideburns)
2. I think the monk was the one who was hit by the lightning not Yo.
3. Yes!!! but number one in the saddest series.
4. Of course that song is a death march song!!!
5. 100% Sure they did it.

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Will they do it again?? Hahaha.

And with the death series, Lady Oh still tops my list. That's one undeserving death sentence.

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Was it that hard to make Ji-soo (Jung) look more matured? I get the gruff look since he was off to fight whatever in the borders of wherever, but c'mon those sideburns are just pitiful, it seemed like it was ripped off from someone's stache hehehe.

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Just here for No. 5, you actually needs to put in on No. 4 (you know, as in W, lol).

5. YES! it has to be yes. Can we get Su pregnant next eps? just for the proof lol.
i mean, So was just unleashing him self, he needs it...

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Too bad we didn't get to see a lil more of that number 4. Wink wink.

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1. Agree but understand why for character development and maturing
2. He suffered a heart attack and the monk that came to pray has hit
3. Yes :( but I will not rank until this series end because more death is coming
4. It is Beautifully lethal! haha
5. Of course!! 400% sure!!! oh well there is a chance they didn't because according to other version there could be another bed scene but I guessed we don't have time!

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Only the candle can confirm.. But my naughty mind says oooh they definitely did it.

Now now @yoyo wipe off that smile on your face

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Noooooooo! I earned this smile! God knows how much effort I have placed into this show from waking up at dawn to catch the live stream, then watching 2 versions of the subs, then doing a little research on the side and finally hitting up DB for some recap lovin'! Hee. This smile is worth the wait and I hope there's more "candle burning" in the next 4 episodes.

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Keep your eye on the candle, guys.

1. Candle lit and flame is burning bright and strong: Not doing it. Bonding and lovey-dovey chat time.

2. Candle lit and flickering: About to do it. Anytime now.

3. Candle out: Doing it!!!

4. Candle out and melted down to pool of wax: She's pregnant.

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5. Brand new candle next to pool of wax: Second times a charmer!

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hey, yoyo, your profound question: Will they do it again? set me thinking all day long and I think I have the answer.

The Second Bed Scene

1. Candle flickers lazily.

2. Camera pans to wall.

3. A shadow appears. Holy mackeral! it's So doing a shadow striptease!

4. First he does it with his hair up.

5. Then he does it with his hair down.

6. He alternately howls and whistles like a wolf seductively in sync with his sinuous movements.

7. Meanwhile Su beats the gongs that she has stolen from Yo as So gyrates.

7. This goes on all night, until the candle burns out.

8. They exchange poems about the water and stuff, lie down and go to sleep straightaway....So falls asleep before Su, because he is tired out doing the striptease with his hair up, then his hair down, and whistling and howling like a wolf nonstop for close to 8 hours.

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OMG, @YY, it's 3am and I am laughing like a drunken crazy girl....

Well, prior to the candle burning, Su manages to slip So a letter with an emoji that goes: T_T

So, being the smartass, takes cue and begins the enumerated process below.

After the boombastic 8hr coital marathon, Su ends the night with yet another emoji: \^_*/

Yo's gong is secretly placed back in its rightful place courtesy of Chae Ryung.

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Ahem, ladies, I know you are getting super excited, but restraint yourselves please, this drama is PG 15. lol

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#5. I would go with yes because there is only 4 eps left and since they are following the Chinese novel.....
(I didn't say it spoiler police lol).

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dude, Jung's silly armor needs to go, he looks like a little boy in it.

So/Soo definitely did the deed, it's sageuk after all, they won't show anything explicit, this is the most they'd do lmao. I think the most "explicit" bed scene in a sageuk drama would probably be Queen Insoo and Jang Ok Jung In Love?

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The most explicit one that I know of were "Eight Days" CGV and "Yacha" OCN. I had to ff through it.
Queen In-soo was on jTBC was that was pretty mild compared to the other 2 sageuks.

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oh good to know, i've never seen those 2 dramas.

yeah didn't queen insoo make headlines cos of the bed scene or something...

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Yes k-netizens forgot that they were watching a cable show lol. Eunjung was 23 so I don't know what they were complaining about.

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@Kiara

Knets always have something to complain about lol. Eunjung's character was happily married, idk what the big deal was.

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Lol I see a lot of people are complaining about the "bed scene" but what did we expect?? Like I want MORE than what looks like a slumber party but it's IU, in a 15+ rated drama on national television *sobs*
This is why LJK should do more movies, so he can have proper bed scenes. I sound so thirsty but I don't even care rn

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Or.....he could land his next drama with TvN who's tends to be a little more daring in its shows. *hopefully*

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Well, you're in good company because I wager that at least 3/4 of the posters here are thirsty for Lee Joon Gi doing a more "real" love scene. I've stopped watching the drama, just read recaps and comments, but the minute that I saw the mention of bed scene I perked right up. Off to hunt down the episode. I hope the kiss will be better than the one we got a few episodes ago, that one was disappointingly lacklustre.

PS. Is the SBS or international version better? I don't want to watch both

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SBS

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but watch kiss & hug of international version. it's way better. just saying... ;)

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I want to know what the original's post-arrow bed scene looked like tbh.

Because the tender afterglowy scene of him stroking her face is lovely, but Big 3 dramas tend to be VERY conservative about even implied bed scenes (as in, ones where the viewer is supposed to understand they did more than sleep) between unmarried couples in sageuk. A kiss + the knowledge that they spent the night in the same place as a bad = the deed is done. I mean, I'm half surprised we actually got the candle shot!

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*same place as a BED. Damn butterfingers!

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I'm sure they did it!! Otherwise how come she ends up getting pregnant!!!????

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Haha. It's funny reading this speculation whether they did it or not. Haesoo is not a Goryeo's girl and Wang So is a wolf, a rabid dog wolf some more. What do we expect? There's a local saying in where I come from that "when two lovers are alone together, there's always the third person". So yes, I think they did it and I am glad that left it to the viewers' imagination. I would drop LJK from my fave's list if he is to do explicit bed scene, just like I dropped Jung Woo Sung.

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I swear i wasn't crying on Eun death, i mean i hate him. But when he died, i was bawling...

And i wish So wasn't lying when he cut the relationship with Soo, i feel like Soo deserve it. She needs to learn what she can loose and stop taking So for granted.
I was actually don't rally like it that they get back together easily, it was just a bit too easy on Hae Su's part.
But i like it some cute So *squee*

It's already 16 eps, but why is it Jung still dumb? Hang around with Wook and hating on So, like wouldn't he catching up on something already?

The guy playing Won is love, he owns it being sly, like his acting looks so natural on me. which can't be said to Yo

On other note, Chaeryung is getting away? i mean, nobody seems to investigate anything in the span of 2 years..

And too little Wook, i love his dead starring eye

Lee Junki is killing it. I can feel every emotion just by his eyes. He was mad, he was angry. He was disappointed, and he was holding it on.
I LOVE HIM!! (i mean, who doesn't?)

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If I am remembering right, for the two years that Soo has been building the castle, Jung has been fighting...was it at the border? So he only started hanging with Wook again upon his return which makes total sense since that is who he was closest to.

I have a theory that Chae Ryung wasn't really poisoning Moo...it was actually being done a different way but who knows.

I cried when Eun died as well and I knew it was coming and I'm not usually that emotional in the dramas but it was well done.

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I am considerably tough judging that I didn't cry over Lady Hae and Lady Oh's death but I did shed some tears for Eun... now I understand that he was being annoying for a reason. RIP Eun and Soon Deok.

Chae Ryung got away with the poisoning because the poisoning was instrumented partly by Won and he is Yo's ally. Of course, she could get away with it and like Wook said to Haesoo, CP died due to his illness, which they all could use as the legitimate reason.

Agree that Haesoo got off easily with So. All she needs to do is giving him a backhug and he melted. I didn't find those romantic OTP moments swoony at all. In fact I was throwing things at the TV because I loathed So for having no control of his emotion when comes to a woman. On this part, I like Wook a lot more.

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But to So, Su isn't just any woman... Su is the one So:

1. Considers to be his life-saver
2. The one that became his first friend
3. The one who helped So rekindle his relationship between his family (especially his brothers... Did you possibly miss the part where and when So told Su that he hopes her past love was not Baek Ha because So would actually "kill" whoever it is he finds out was Su's past lover, but So actually likes Baek Ha and doesn't want to "kill" Baek Ha?)
4. The first one who showed So what it means to love and to be loyal
5. To prove to So, through her own character, that the world isn't just a place where there is hate and that killing isn't the only solution to everything

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6. His future. He said himself without Soo he would have no future. Remember the scar-covering scene?

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I totally respect your defense on Haesoo but I think you guys tend to view her in a romance context. I love this drama, I seriously do but the chracterization of Haesoo is really exhausting to me. I just can't connect to the whole idea of big love between Haesoo and Wang So. After what she had put him through (though she never asked for it) and the mistrust, I just could not view her in a positive light. And let's not forget that she was really easy with Wook but gave So such a hard time. The essence of the relationship is the same (not that she loved Wook less during that period of time) but the treatment is a vast comparison.

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Maybe she gave So a hard time because of what happened with Wook? (Once bitten, twice shy.)

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She gave Wook a pillow....that's going to come back and haunt her...I can imagine Wook with his eyes half-closed, pulling out that pillow from inside his sleeves at random moments, in front of So, and looking across the room at Su...

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Lol...so creepy, that Wook.

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wow this drama is intense, and i know a lot of people complain about it's irksome choices in the music and directing department but even with those detractions, I can't help but love it warts and all. I could say it's the ljk effect but i coudn't finish the Joseon guman even for him. i got bored really quickly. however, with this drama it's like a rollercoaster that might just derail in any given moment and I'll still get on it every episode.

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Haha Wow! for me is almost the same but with IU. Of course LJG is amazing but its my first drama of him. But putting aside all the mistakes on directing, music and specially writing (HaeSoo lack of dialog and voiceover and explanations) I still feel all her emotions. She is an spectator of something that she knows is gonna happen, she is just like us! haha I love IU she is doing an amazing job, but even if I love her I couldn't watch if it was a bad drama, like Bel Amie, I couldn't finished it, just not my type of drama.

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@_@

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I have a question... Why does Eun seem to have more plotline dead than alive? I mean, last episode was all about preparing to escape death, and then he died, and the feelings left over drove the plot this episode. I mean I want to love Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart, but the plot and writing aren't letting me. Why? I thought we learned a lesson from Uncontrollably Fond, that starpower is not the only key to success! That there has to be good writing too!

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You can blame the 3: bad writing, editing and directing.

Eun's storyline was made to leave an impact, but we only really did get to feel that when he died and that montage of Eun was a bittersweet symphony of a farewell tribute to the forever little prince of Goryeo.

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I completely agree with you. I wanted to love this drama so much but the writing is just not doing anything for it. We were really upset about the character development issues and plot holes in this episode that we wrote a whole post about it! https://thedramafilesblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/18/file-no-moon-lovers-scarlet-heart-ryeo-ep-16/

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And we have another time skip … So and Soo have spent more years apart than together?

Hae Soo – How is it that no one notices the Head of Damiwon is away playing for days?

Chae Ryung – Too blithe for someone who was instrumental in poisoning Emperor Mu. Karma will get her?

General Park – How is it that he’s still in service to Emperor Yo? Would Yo not have killed him too to prevent him taking revenge for the death of his family?

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as for HS's playing - I remember jung wanting to see her and CR denying him a visit by claiming HS sick.

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So the scene which revealed Woohee spying on So was cut out of ONE TV Asia and that sucks because all along, I was thinking of what's her true function in this story.

My favourite scene is definitely the death of Eun. Don't get me wrong. While I do find Eun annoying most of the time, his death really is so heartbreaking and the acting of all actors including Baekhyun (except IU with her trademark O_O) were truly impressive. Lee Jun Ki is stellar as always, transitioning the stunned and hurt expression into a manic laugh like a pro.

I am for one that really dislike the romantic moments between our OTP. For the great reason that I really really HATE Haesoo because she is set to become the dumbest heroine in K-drama history. The moment she asked So to give up his quest for the throne, enough for them to have each other is really the moment that cemented my eternal disdain on her. WTF can't she understand why he needs to become king????? After witnessing so many deaths right before her eyes and being powerless, she should have known why he needs the throne. It's such a shame to call herself a 21st century woman when she could not even figure out simple logic like that. And let's not forget that she rephrased the same "what if i ask you to give up the throne for me" to Wook before. So all the men need to sacrifice for her?

And I do agree that as far as the plot goes, So has no formidable foe just yet and usurping the throne from a mad king is nothing glorious. On this aspect, I say this drama focus too much on the romance and never once giving us any hint on how So actually outsmarting his enemies. Things just happened without giving the audiences on how he mapped out his way to the throne.

And if it's not because of LJK, I would not have liked Wang So this much. I find Wook to be smarter - yes he is cunning but he is smarter, better at controlling his feelings and he is not the one throwing caution out of the window for love. Wang So has become too much of a romantic hero and less practical which is why I could not see him having the quality of a king.

3 episodes to go, I am done with Haesoo and so looking forward to the time when So going to axe her out. And please, show me the Gwangjong that deserves to be king.

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I firmly disagree but respect your opinion.

Well, I do understand that if your interest is the political aspect and strategic moves this show is lacking a lot. I can understand that.

On the HaeSoo aspect I totally disagree but I guess that is just personal preference. I loved it that when Eun died she look like an spectator, like us watching the screen and just crying. Because she knows that was going to happen. I usually cry in silence haha so maybe that is why I feel so into her character.

On the 21st century aspect I also get your point but I interpreted in a different way. She was actually testing him, she is realizing how much he has changed. She knows that she is not the only objetive in So's life. And now that he has her love he has to fight other fights. For me it was completely different than the question for Wook, and I liked that parallel setting.

4 episodes to go and I am only interested in how HaeSoo is gonna axe So out because of his transformation. Court Lady said it very clearly the palaces changes people. Taejo did it, Moo changed, Yo changed, So is changing and what I love the most about HaeSoo is that she will not change, she will mature but not change. That's the beauty of this show fans want so many different scenarios that make me feel like a literature classes talking about Shakespeare haha!

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Well. I read your earlier comment about Haesoo being bullied by the audiences so I get that you are rooting for her. I respect that and like you said, it's down to one's opinion and preference.

As I said, I could not like her no matter what explanation given to me. I tried but I couldn't. Aside from being the catalyst for things to happen as recorded in history, she serves no other purpose and what set her different from the other Goryeo's women? Ok, her best accomplishment so far is the BB Cream and I give her that credits.

I don't get why she needs to test So at this juncture? To see how big is his love for her even though he had shown her enough. Sorry, I am not buying this crap about her. She is just plain stupid. I like the heroine being all noble but stupidity is a crime in my book.

I am welcoming the changes in So because I never one who feel that Haesoo is deserving of such enormous love.

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Funny enough, I believe Wang So would completely disagree with you. She's the girl who loved him when no one did, by just by being a person to him, instead of treating him like an animal. And that was enough for him to start believing in himself as something more than just a serial killer. Hae Su absolutely deserves his love in every sense of the word, she has been there for him over and over again, at his worst moments, and while she's not perfect, that's why he loves her because she never stops believing in him.

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And that is why I didn't like WangSo lying at Haesoo. It's just so out of character! For the reasons you just mention, for everything that she has done for him, and for the loves the he has he should have handle it differently.

There is nothing more immature than doing what your are complaining about what was done to you. So is hurt, and angry, what is his response to lie. HaeSoo is a walking vault. She will not tell anyone anything that someone else has trusted her with. One of the reasons she didn’t say about Eun. The noble idiot was ahhh so idiot for me. He could easily say I want the throne now, I dont want to put you in danger, I dont want to be a dog with a leash anymore I still loved you but Im hurt and I need time. Im going away, I will not write, not visit but I want you to know why.
HaeSoo is smart and insanely loyal. She would have accept and respect. If you want to go on her bad side lie to her, and dont tell her what you really feel.

I thought oh well, it doesn’t go with his character but I’ll accept and respect WangSo’s decision. But then he easily showed he still cares, great for me because I just want them to be together but for narration it makes his noble idiot act just and idiot act. Oh WangSo you are very lucky that your girlfriend its so freaking loyal!

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@EliRod: I believe Wang So didn't tell Hae Su about hunting Eun and Seon Deok because he knew Su would worry a lot knowing how she valued her friends.

They both technically didn't lie but kept important information which they thought would do more harm that good to the other person. They tried to solve the problem their own hoping the end wkuld justify the means.

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That's ok! If there is no love we cannot force it! You tried and couldn't it was enough with trying.
Yes, I'm rooting for her and interestingly I loved that her purpose ironically it's just doing exactly what she is doing. Sometimes don't intervene and sometimes try and make mistakes but it doesn't matter because the history that she knows is going to happen because of her traveling back in time. I understand your frustration, is completely justified, I just see it in another way ☺

No no no, I don't believe it was to test how much he loves her, that would be so stupid as you say. I believe it was more like if I follow this path will everything change? More like testing herself and her fate. She was calm, she was like digesting how much her boyfriend has change in this past 2 years and she will now have to decide, even if he wants the throne will she still be there for him?

I welcome the changes in So too, it makes sense, and it's a mature love. The passionate love (this person is perfect and is the only one that I need) already passed.
But on the deserving part I have to disagree but only because the "I don't deserve you" or "you don't deserve me" it's a crime in my relationship book and also shipper book (bro code haha).

"I love you for who you are with qualities and defects and I'm willing to fight for you, if your willing to fight for me too and accept me as who I am that is enough for me". That type of love is worth giving a try. Who loves more, this one doesn't deserve such an enormous love for me it's unrealistic and usually ends bad.

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I agree with @Del whole-heartedly. I guess we are just the minority who just could not be sold with the idea of big love between Haesoo and So.

I watched the C-version and I can totally bought the idea of big love there because putting aside that Ruoxi is smart, she is taking 4th best interest at heart. Ruoxi knows from the get go that Yinzhen would become a ruthless king but she stood by her man until she could take no more and instead of asking him to let go of what he worked for, she pulled herself out again with his best interest at heart. She was not being selfish, she just wanted to end the suffering for them both and she did not try to change history.

I couldn't feel the same way towards Haesoo. Ones could easily justify that her request for So to give up the throne is her way of protecting him from becoming the man he would become as known in history and to secure their love but goodness, I could totally bought the idea except that it came across as just being plain stupid. Is she expecting Yo to continue to reign and constantly putting her and the man she loves in danger? How much more sacrifices So has to make? In return, what have she sacrificed so far?

The same with @Del, I can't tolerate the over dramatic romance without being realistic. Haesoo's head is just full of love and idealism. Again, I am comparing her to Ruoxi who acted on what's best at that particular situation and not letting the romance and love clouded her judgement. Asking So to give up the throne just seal my opinion that she is shallow, she does not have faith in him and here she goes again, trying to tamper with history.

I will still give her credits for giving So the love that was denied from him, who could looked passed his scar or whatever his suffering is. I don't really see that as any form of big love but in a standpoint of Wang So, yes, he does since he has been starving for it. Apart from that and the BB cream, I could not find her deserving of the man's love.

Sorry to you guys but no, definitely no love for Haesoo.

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If not for Lee Jun-ki Wang Mu would have all my love. I've always have a soft spot for the historical Wang Mu.

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Yes. Wang Mu is a genuinely good person and this shows that how a totally good person could never become a good king. One needs to be more of a shade of grey in order to rule.

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I'd ditch them both for Choi Eung but he is not part of the drama. I was in love with him and his brain in Emperor Taejo lol.

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So the SBS version cut off an important scene: Yo agreed to grant Jung a favour, anything but the throne, and Jung admitted that there was one thing he has always wanted, I guess we all know what that is. This may come up in the next episode, though. And people who only watch the international version are complaining why So-Soo only kiss and hug in the make-up scene. Dear, why do they have to make the two versions so diverse, it's like watching two different dramas with the same faces.

I am actually thinking about skipping to the last episode. In dramas like this, sweet things are to be followed by terrible things and promises will turn into broken vows. That was partly why I did not (and never will) watch the Chinese version. To me, it seems meaningless to fall in love with two guys and lose both of them for the same reason. I was hopeful since So was portrayed in a totally different way from Yinzhen, but I kinda lost my hope now. I know a happy ending is not likely so far and the show may turn out bad with a forced happy ending, but I don't think I can handle my emotions if So marries Yeon Hwa. And has children with her. And only has her as his Queen (if they follow the history). And after all she has done to Soo. I find it even more cruel than they have to die for each other.

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"Yo agreed to grant Jung a favour, anything but the throne.."
I think I know what it is based on the original but I'd prefer if it came from their father.

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I really hope they don't go the route with Jung like they did with his character in BBJX I've read on these threads. We don't have time for that side plot I feel!

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The show started in a different way from the original version but everything slowly falls into the same place, so I think we are going to get the thing we are hoping not to happen. Up to now, they even remake the arrow detail.
Actually, despite the fact that So-Soo are still in a sweet stage now, I just want to tell Soo to get away from the palace, forget about those princes, be it So or Wook, live freely and be happy. There is a Chinese phrase that a king never goes against his word, but Scarlet Heart (I mean the book and both versions) teaches us not to believe in a prince's promise ?.

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Yea there isn't but he is plan B because you know, she might not be able to handle the future Wang So's method of ruling. I don't think Wang So himself have any idea what he is about to become in order to keep those powerful clans in line and the throne.

Taejo was in a hurry to get married right after losing Yo and So's older brother Wang Tae because the kingdom will always come first.

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This episode absolutely gutted me, in the best way. Such angst, such twists and turns.

I have extremely mixed feelings about Wang So’s declaration to Soo that he will seek the throne. On the one hand, this is in direct contradiction to what he told her before, as she pointed out. He said before that he did not want the throne; and that he only wanted to marry her. (It also confirms what Court Lady Oh said to her, about what she can expect from loving a prince.)

On the other hand, it really is bigger than Hae Soo and their romance: this is about changing the country. (I’m not sure it’s really about ending the bloodshed between brothers, as Wang So seems to think. After all, he’ll have to kill at least one more brother to get the throne and stay there. It’s more about protecting the ones he loves from being killed by one or another of his power-mad, bloodthirsty brothers—Yo, Wook, and possibly even a vengeful Jung. Let’s not forget the murderously conniving Won, either. How many will be left?)

Just as it was possible in earlier episodes to see there was some good in Wook despite his evil actions, it is possible to see a disturbing ruthlessness in Wang So. There’s ambiguity: Is he trying to protect Hae Soo from his enemies by “throwing her away”? Or is he putting her aside because he thinks becoming king is more important, and he needs to focus on that? Perhaps both… Once they finally admitted they still love each other, will he keep throwing her away by continuing to seek the throne, and maybe even marrying Yeon Hwa? I love the complexity of the ambiguity, even though it makes me extremely uncomfortable.

The only relief from my tears and my qualms came during Hae Soo’s and So’s romantic interlude away from the palace. Part of that scene was more comical than I think the show intended, though: the juxtaposition of their sexy bed time with the part where Hae Soo and and So were making shadow puppets on the wall inevitably brought to my mind two Saturday Night Live (Korea) skits:

-"50 Shades of Grey" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKd6KUcSKxw)

-and the “3 Minutes Boyfriend” Gray segment, with AOMG’s Gray (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLiWJHmgSnQ&feature=youtu.be) (minutes 2:50-4:01 in that clip),

in which the “shades” are sexy time hand shadow puppets. I died.

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Thanks for those SNL Korea clips! ROFLMAO.

Actually, when I saw the shadow critters, I instantly thought it was a tip of the hat to THE KING AND THE CLOWN... not only the shadow figures, but also the hand puppets of the two characters played by Gong-Gil and Jang-Sang. IMHO, a must-watch for anyone new to LJG's work. But prepare to have your heart broken...

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Thanks for the recommendation, PakalanaPikake!

Prepare to have my heart broken AGAIN? I do want to see the King and the Clown, but everyone says LJG's character's storyline is tragic, and I don't think I can handle it... TT.TT

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Yup, broken in the best possible way. So save it for after you recover from MOON LOVERS.

The OST is beautiful. "Inyeon" ("Fate") sung by its composer, Lee Sun Hee, is gorgeous.

A clip from the 42nd Annual PaekSang Arts Awards Opening [April 14 , 2006], with LJG in the audience at 1:35.

이선희(Lee Sun Hee) - 인연(Fate) [Kor&Eng Lyrics]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPqt_d39dBw

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@Jamie

Totally agree. I feel you on the ambiguity of Wang So's feelings, and how it hurts, but in a good way, because it means the show's not taking the easy path in building their relationship.

I've written below that So ultimately is now driven by his need to be king. He meant it when he said to separate, and that shows his resolve (great for Wang So) but spells impending doom for SoSoo (sob)

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@Lemon Meringue: I replied to you downthread. Your observations are great! :)

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Once upon a time we were hinted #option 4 from Kang Chul the dimension bending fella.

Now, after 17 long episodes of waiting SoSoo moments in this...and earlier on had to ship WookSoo (I mean, who can resist their chemistry) ; and then crush that ship...we are given a blown candle. (Yes, I get that euphemism but come on! What's the hurt in showing us more!)

Where are my smoochies?? We need moar moments!

Come on, Scarlet Heart!

#ragetableflip

On side note, we have to commend their continuous effort to do BB cream makeup all the time, even when he's in bed, sick. The scar's barely visible!

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I TOTALLY AGREE!! I wanted to see more! WAIT not too much haha just, exactly the same, kissing, hugging, but in bed in black-white ying-yang pyjamas!! haha

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BB cream for life!

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Does anyone feel like Jeongjong is Macbeth of Goryeo? lol

also queen sms has black hair again

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Okay, I noticed that too about the hair. And for sure felt Jeongjong as Macbeth with Banquo's ghost haunting him.

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In which case I can't wait to hear Queen Yoo say, "Out, damned spot!" -- But the way Yo is cracking up, he's more likely to say it than his mother.

As for her hair, she's channeling Lily Munster... or Pepe Le Pew. The skunk symbolism is so apt.

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Wowee!

Thanks for the recap!

After adoring eps 1-14, episode 15 wasn't my fav because it felt like a drawn-out, painfully sad goodbye and foreshadowing of the certain doom ahead for Eun and Soon Deok. 16 was so fantastic in that you were so :*( in the beginning and :) at the end. And they did it well. I didn't feel as guilty as I would have thought, for being happy for Soo & So as they adorably dabbled in shadow puppetry.

In reference to the separation and time hop, we must keep in mind that this is very loosely based on actual history, and Wang Yo did reign for four years...so, without dwelling on that portion of history, they time jumped. The original SH did this a lot too. It's a story that spans over multiple monarch's reigns. I do like your point, Heads, about them taking a different rout from insanity. Yo historically was super Buddhist but I don't know about super crazy. I like your thoughts on all of the time travel-fate-changing-ness, too.

But I'm just enjoying the ride. And the shadow puppets. <3

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I also appreciated how the show, using the time he spent away, is setting up Wang So's disapproval of slavery and support of "The People," as his reign was known for making great reforms in these areas.

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Yes! In the past he prioritised his personal matters (love towards haesoo, affection to parents), he would be king if he was granted love.

But now he learned that being a king is not a trivial matter, he had motivations now. To ensure stability, to ensure innocent people are no longer treated without justice, to make sure the nation and its citizens prosper. He no longer says I would, but rather I have to. And slowly learning that indeed he would have to throw away his personal interests in favor of the greater good...

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This episode brings home just how addictive Moon Lovers is. Watching the show is to go on a rollercoaster ride with your emotions.

From the beginning with Eun’s death, to the heart-wrenching breakup and separation, and then the hard-earned blissful reunion and finally the bittersweet ending – there was literally not a dull moment. Every scene, every dialogue meant something, with some taking on added significance because of earlier episodes. And THIS is how you do a time-skip.

I was crying one minute, then swooning, and then dreading and anticipating in equal measures what would come next.

Props to Baekhyun (is that his name?). The actor nailed it this episode. Maybe acting opposite LJK had something to do with it. It was so bittersweet how Eun never forgot the pain he had inflicted on So with his thoughtless birthday request, and how ironically in turning to So to fulfil his last dying wish, he was demonstrating just how much he respected, trusted in and loved his hyung-nim.

One of the most rewarding things about watching Moon Lovers is experiencing the journey our OTP goes through. Many things have been executed badly, but what the show did right was in the care and effort it took in slowly building up the SoSoo relationship. Soo now knows how much she loves So and she has willingly accepted him for who he is, visions and history be damned. What’s great is that it’s no longer one-sided; she’s willing to risk her security and safety on their relationship.

But the SoSoo shipper in me died a little. Eun’s death has marked a turning point for Wang So. For the first time in a long while, Soo doesn’t come first for him; the goal to become King does. The ending illustrates this perfectly. When Soo asks So if he would give up the throne to be with her, his answer no longer is yes.

That’s why the breakup scene was heartbreaking on so many levels. Wang So really meant it when he wanted to end it. If Soo had not left the palace to force an answer out of So, I believe he would have walked away from the relationship in the belief that the throne is now his top priority and everything else, including Soo, is secondary.

The foreshadowing by the Taejo – Lady Oh story arc is coming true here, and So’s new ambition and drive will result in him giving her up at some point in future in order to preserve the throne.

But for Wang So the character, this growth is necessary. He’s proven this episode that he’s more than just a romantic lead by assuming a larger goal and purpose.

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Yes, loved this analysis LM. This growth is necessary. At some point, the health of Goryeo as a nation and the well-being of its people has to matter to somebody if it's going to succeed. Putting that, not the throne in and of itself as symbol of power, ahead of Su is not wrong but right, and she'd probably be the first person in Goryeo to agree with that.

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Yeah I came to the same conclusion up top here too!

"Even if the core nature of a person does not change, the are many actions and decisions that will make a different person at the end. And that’s what’s happening to Wang So. He’s realizing that as a leader, he can make a real impact on people that he cares about and that might NOT be less important than his love for Hae Su. He’s no longer the love-struck teenager who would die for his lover, but rather someone who begins to have the vision for his destiny. I mean, that’s a hard call to turn down: the call to destiny to become who you were meant to become. And as awful as it is, I think because Hae Su cannot match him in his actions. Because she cannot survive in the palace with him, they have to part. And it will be horrible because their love has NOT run its course, but its feasibility has."

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Wang So has finally learned the difference of importance and prioritization. While he realizes that the change he wants to see in Goryeo starts with the throne, So begins to act accordingly not by undermining his relationship with Su but rather sandbagging it. Both Hae Su and the throne are important to Wang So but in a matter of prioritization, in order to get a win-win situation out of this, Wang So elieves firmly in aiming for the throne first. That's not a bad plan at all, with the right motives and support in place, I don't see why it can't be a win-win for him, oh but wait! There's Jung's foreshadowing and it's pretty strong.

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Yeah, we're starting to see the grains of why So would want to be king himself, and that it's rooted not in ambition but in principle - from his wish to be free of being forced to kill/betray his brothers, to his standing up for the slaves building the new castle he's overseeing.

Su may land as priority #2 in this new order, but it's not a bad thing in and of itself.

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@Barbrey @Seltzerwater

Thanks for your thoughts. While I'm glad to see Wang So step up, it doesn't bode well for our couple. Steeling myself for what's up ahead.

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I so agree! I was really sad after watching this ep. There was plenty of cute, but I fear where this Ship is headed after that break.

Did anyone notice though, that as much as So is ALL about trust and telling the truth, HE is the only half of the OTP who committed un-truth outright? And he kept lying for two years! Why succumb to Su now? Is he so close to the throne that he is throwing caution to the wind? Or can he no longer betray his longing for her? I try to think about the scene where Yo grabs Su's wrist as often as I feel sad about the OTP ship. So doesn't acknowledge her presence like Wook does, but as soon as she is in pain, he bares his neck to the blade. Everyone in that room (except for Su, but including Yo, cuz mad/angry Yo is more intuitive than lucid Yo) knows on some level that So is still deeply attached to her, and it mends me a little that the two years apart altered her importance to his future, but not the depth of those feelings.

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@E

You said it. The moment So initiated the break up, which was the "sacrifice" that General Park wanted (the international version made this flow of events clearer), my heart sank. It was clear where So's priorities were now.

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@LemonMeringue - it's odd how a show so flawed, where half of us if not all of us already know how it's going to end, can be so addictive. I think it has to do with the core of the story being so epic and compelling, and really, in cases like these, what happens at the end isn't as important as how we get there.

And for stories like these, knowing how it will (probably) end doesn't make them any less addictive. Take Romeo & Juliet - it's an iconic love story, and a tragic one, and pretty much any English-reading person on the planet knows that. But that knowledge didn't stop two filmed versions of the story (the 1968 Franco Zeffirelli version with Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey, and the 1996 Baz Luhrmann one starring Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio) becoming beloved in their own right. And once, when I was in college, I picked up a copy of the play and read it through - and was surprised to find myself going 'NOOOOO!' at so many points in the story even though I knew perfectly well how it was going to end, I wasn't any less invested in the characters because of it.

Basically, some stories transcend their forgone conclusions. And the core story of BBJX is one of those.

Also this: That’s why the breakup scene was heartbreaking on so many levels. Wang So really meant it when he wanted to end it. If Soo had not left the palace to force an answer out of So, I believe he would have walked away from the relationship in the belief that the throne is now his top priority and everything else, including Soo, is secondary.

That's why the scene broke me, because in So's mind, it was a final separation - he may not have wanted to give up on Su, but he was willing to, no matter how much it hurt (and with the nominal benefit of convincing Yo that if he didn't care about her anymore - a plausible excuse since she hid Eun from him and that indirectly led to So being forced to kill his own brother - she couldn't be used against him). I mean, even after he saves her from the arrow he passes it off as just wanting to avoid rumours that Yo is crazy enough to shoot a court lady. Like you said, this time if it wasn't for Su, he'd have walked away truly believing that their relationship was at an end, but her risking serious punishment to leave the Damiwon and come to him is a pretty clear statement of her intentions.

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Very nicely said, Pogo. I agree.

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@Barbrey - seriously, our reactions to this remind me so strongly of what it felt like to read R&J, it's uncanny - we have all the spoilers but we're still on tenterhooks.

Or maybe I just have a thing for heroes who drink poison for love (albeit So's case was even more tragic because his love was unrequited at the time and he was willing to die for her anyway).

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@pogo

Exactly. You get all these classic, epic, universal themes in Moon Lovers - star-crossed love, loyalty, friendship, betrayal, fate vs determinism - and it's a potent, heady mix. The execution has been a let-down, yes, but the core of the story is so compelling, with shades of Shakespearean tragedy.

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Exactly! There's a certain depth of emotion it manages to tap in its viewers because of that classic core - and for all the letdowns this one inflicted on us, it's impossible to be indifferent.

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Now that I think even more (when did I stop?) about it, do you know what's worse? that he DIDN'T lie. He didn't say he stopped loving her, but that his feelings for her had changed: She is the first person he has (Baekah doesn't count because to So family is still a given before Eun's death), and the first thing he threw away!

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UUUGH WHY ARE YOU GUTTING ME EVEN MORE WHYYYYYYY

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Starting at post 28, @LemonMeringue,pogo,Barbrey,Seltzerwater,Yoyo,E....Agree with your feelings and comments...@E "He didn’t say he stopped loving her, but that his feelings for her had changed:...." just wanted to add that his feelings changing can have many interpretations....his feeling for Soo?, his feelings about the throne?....his feelings about who he wants to be in the future?...etc....it begs the question what feelings changed for So?We understand he left because it was necessary to protect everyone, HS, himself, brothers, etc... and break the cycle they are all trapped in....we understand destiny calls him now, and So has matured....but have his feelings for Soo really changed?....or has he gained new priorites in the process?....what is it we want from So? Most importantly what does Soo want from So?....should there love remain forever one dimensional...So will do anything for Soo and nothing else will have any priorities in his life...ever. I wish we could have had Soo leave the palace and see the suffering of the people (slaves) working to build the castle, alongside So...women and children slaving away to death...families torn apart to work....people maimed and injured to complete a freaking building for the Royal family to live in comfort...all this suffering to build a bathhouse like Daminwon built on the blood of children...knowing Soo's character and how she cares about people she would be the first to push So to do something....in fact she might just strap on the armor on herself and storm the castle....I said it in an earlier post, that YeonWha is a royal princess and raised to see the common people as common, just pawns to reach her goals and aspirations, that's the kind of Queen she will become, but Soo is different. She has been raised in a modern world context where common people are human beings with rights . The people aren't common to her, and that is why she would make an awesome Queen for So. If there is one person who will back him up in this endeavour at the cost of their own happiness it is loyal Soo. If both of them are willing to sacrifice this much for each other has love between them really become less or has it just matured to a different stage...the husband/wife love stage of love...and that my friends is what makes this love story EPIC.

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@pogo,

@LemonMeringue – it’s odd how a show so flawed, where half of us if not all of us already know how it’s going to end, can be so addictive. I think it has to do with the core of the story being so epic and compelling, and really, in cases like these, what happens at the end isn’t as important as how we get there.

For me, it is definitely a matter of journey (and sidetracks!) versus destination. I haven't read or seen the Chinese original, but have read enough spoilers in the recaps here at DB... Even so, I know that plot twists are the holy grail of Kdrama, and when they're done well, seemingly insignificant events or hints at characterization can yield surprisingly satisfying results many episodes later. I try to maintain a "Let's wait and see" attitude while suspending my disbelief... Even so, I've still been tearing my hair at times. ;-)

I think that Eun's and Soon-Deok's death scenes are devastatingly effective because of all the earlier characterization of #10 as so utterly and even childishly harmless... or perhaps "innocent" is a better word. Eun's request that So send him on his way to accompany his wife to the next life spoke volumes to me. That was not a little kid talking... In asking So to give him the thing that only So could do for him, he apologized in a way that showed he'd thought about the birthday episode a great deal. -- It also reminded me of a passage from Robert Heinlein which oddly fits So's coup de grace: "When the need arises -- and it does -- you must be able too shoot your own dog. Don’t farm it out -- that doesn’t make it nicer, it makes it worse." [from: "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long" in Time Enough for Love.]

As for Soon-Deok, her father's eulogy felt like foreshadowing to me. Grand General Park stated that his daughter was stubborn and unchanging because she remained true to herself. Enamored of her first love, she stuck to him to the bitter end, and wouldn't have it any other way.

Hae-Su strikes me as unable or unwilling to change even when the people and conditions around her change to the point of being nearly unable to support life. It's as if she's set herself up to be a dinosaur headed for extinction. How many times has the universe had to hit her upside the head with a 2x4 to get her attention?

So, in contrast, has recognized that he has to take the winds of change into account if he is to tack into them on his journey to destiny -- a destiny he could never have envisioned without Hae-Su's love and cosmetology. He's seen that the only way to cease being someone's dog is to become the top wolf-dog himself. Whereas earlier he had no intention (or hope) of becoming king, now he knows it's the only way for him, and those he cares for, to live in relative peace. I can almost hear "All You Need Is Love" playing in the background when Hae-Su asks if he really wants to become king...

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Also seconding the props to Baekhyun - he's irritated me to death in almost every scene before his marriage and finally waking up to Soon-deok, but I did note a few episodes ago that Lee Jun-ki seems to raise the game of all his male costars whenever they have a scene with him (this is not the first drama this has happened in), and it looks like Baekhyun got the full effect of that now. I almost cried when he remembered his long-ago birthday party and told So he'd been manipulated into making that request to take off the mask, and then asked for a quick death to join his wife /sob

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That said, I also have to give props to Z.Hera, the actress playing Soon-deok - she went a LONG way towards endearing not only her own character to us, but also Eun's. And she had good chemistry with Baekhyun too, I may or may not have had someone chopping onions nearby when she was dying in his arms and he was calling her name,

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And that DAMNED SONG!! My eyes tear up on cue when the song plays.

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oh god I'm now terrified of just who we're going to hear it for next.

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WEEPS FOREVER

But you're right, Soon-deok really grounded the ship for me as well. :( why did they have to goooooooooooo

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I knoooow they just wanted to run a toy shop and teach martial arts! And she could have stuck around and teased Jung about his hairpin crush some more! Got to know the other brothers! But instead she's dead ;__________;

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@pogo: We can't ever have any nice things in Goryeo, maybe except a bed scene with a super explicit extinguishing candle :(

I don't think I'm ever going to get over the way Eun was crying out for Soon-deok, because it was heart wrenching and you could tell that he wanted to believe that she wasn't dead yet. Why couldn't they hold hands until the very end???? CRIES again

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@kumoiwa - well, they also have nice costumes and relatively non-oppressive rules for women, but yeah, Goryeo is no picnic and the time-travelling pool really did Su dirty. (next time send her somewhere fun please! And preferably somewhere with no kings or messy palace politics). Still, I will take the extinguished candle over no candle at all.

I came thisclose to losing it when he stopped calling her by her title and went straight for 'Deok-ah!'. Knowing the kind of intimacy attached to names in that world and also the almost childish shortening of it.... something about that really drove it home just how innocent they were, more than even the boats or the toys.

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@Lemon Meringue: "But the SoSoo shipper in me died a little....So’s new ambition and drive will result in him giving her up at some point in future in order to preserve the throne.

"But for Wang So the character, this growth is necessary. He’s proven this episode that he’s more than just a romantic lead by assuming a larger goal and purpose."

All true, and part of why this show frustrates various viewing factions, I think. Those who want a straight-up romance have been disappointed in Hae's Soo's behavior and reservations toward So; and may be disappointed that So's priorities have shifted, and that Hae Soo is no longer number one in his life.

Those who want straight up game of thrones have been disappointed in taking time for the lovelines, and characters acting against their own best political interests.

In life, of course, we have all these things: romance, disappointment, priority shifts, politics. Not to mention lies, omissions of truth, misunderstandings, and realizations that our interests don't necessarily align with those of the important people in our lives (even the ones we love and who claim to love us). Life happens.

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Woah! i was wondering why there was no ep 16 recap on Dramabeans (secretly cheering in the morning that, for once, I have seen the episode before Heads!) but now I realise that Ep 16 was aired only yesterday in Korea. (aside- So did we actually watch a Korean drama before Koreans could do it?)

I actually liked this episode. Eun's death made me cry (and Baekhyun actually acted well in that scene- does anyone else see a little bit of Ji Chang Wook in him?)- but I was kinda waiting for him to actually get later (possible spoiler) because I have Moonlight hangover where the good guys don't die.

I also loved the Su- Soo scenes, but I was missing Wook on my screen. I mean I love Lee Jun Ki, but whenever Knag Ha Neul comes on the screen, I easily forget everything else. He looks the most royal of these royals!

Is this a 20- episode drama? Isn't there a lot left to cover in just 4 episodes?

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Being King is hard

Let the broken arrow shafts of our beloved Prince #10 drive you mad; Yo go down!

I absolutely fell for the love scene, maybe I was ready for it to happen, and So and Soo's peaceful happy moment may be the only one they ever get.

Being king is hard.

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Thanks Heads!!! I watched this episode several times now.. Dramafire version yesterday, Dramafever version today and SBS.. its like homework to make sure nothing is missed.

Eun's death was tragic and sad.... and long.. Rightfully it deserves attention since its a major turning point in the drama, but it felt a little overdone. I know.. cold.. real cold.. Not the actors fault.. just pacing..

The Break Up- Even if So didn't fully mean everything he said, there must have been some truth behind it. Su needed to hear that her lack of trust in So (who has proven himself too many times) had a part in the chain of events that lead to Eun's death. Su needed be truthful and also reveal that she did eventually change her mind and fully trusted him now. Seeing So tear up after the breakup... :(.....

Healing Body and Hearts- Yes!!! Finally guards down, feelings revealed, love love love! So happy it happened this episode. Seeing So and Su be affectionate and playful is everything I've waited for. The kiss, holding each other, So adoringly watching Su as she slept. They enjoy spending time together.. like the friends they started as and will remain hopefully. Looking up at the stars is probably my favorite scene after the kiss. I want them to grow old together like that. Holding hands, laughing together, being happy.

Only a few episodes left.. Please let there be more happiness.. pls.

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I cried a lot when Eun died TT_TT
The last time I cried like this watching a Korean drama was during Reply 88

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I am probably heartless but I think Eun's death only sad because of the song,
it dragging and he already has so much unnecessary screen time, they actually could do better,
he still an annoying character and death don't wash away that trait,
he is still the prince who can do nothing and sacrifice because he is stupid,
He is good at the last when asking for mercy killing but there's hardly attachment and development for his character and it once again feels like the make it so sad just because it's a death, death scene always gonna be sad but as a character, he saw it coming, seon deok and eun died because they are not thinking and not the main lead

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Great episode! So many things happened and so much heartbreak.

Am I the only who's pissed that episode 16 got leaked 1 day earlier and now the ratings is suffering?? SBS should've released 2 episodes tonight in order to save their ratings, I guess they don't give a crap. =_=

And wow I can't believe Woohee's a spy??? Isn't that Chaeryung's role?? Will So kill both??? Gah

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Omg, I'm so addicted to this drama, even with all its flaws. I feel really sad right now because I feel like our OTP won't end together. It's like their relationship got stained real good and nothing will ever be the same, just like her relationship with Wook.

It's truly a first for me, all the dramas I watched so far always had this loyal, pure and eternal love thing going on for the main characters. It's going to be hard to watch.

As for Hae Soo, I would probably be as dumb as her if I was in her shoes. At this point she has nothing to live for except the friends that she made over there. She has no purpose, and I understand how it can be hard for her to find her way into that world (except loyalty to her friends?)

((The only heroine that comes to my mind in the ''absolutely hate'' category was the main girl from Gaksital. UGH I wanted to punch her useless face!))

As for Lee Jun-Ki, I totally fell in love with him through out this drama. He's just so pretty. And such a good actor too. Could you guys recommend me any worthy dramas of his? I only watched My girl (which I totally loved, but he fell under my radar at that time) and couldn't get into Scholar at all (oh yeah that was a good case of annoying heroine).

Wow my post is as disjointed as the editing is! WOO

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1. Arang and the Magistrate
2. Scholar who walks the night
3. Two weeks

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Lee Jun-ki dramas, you say?

- Arang & the Magistrate
- Two Weeks
- Time Between Dog & Wolf (if you're willing to go a little older on dramas - can't believe this one is almost 10 years old!)

Scholar was such a mess of a script/story, the entire cast deserved better. Even the poor heroine.

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But LJK as usual nailed his character on it!!!!
And i wont talk about the heroin on it

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Thanks for the suggestions!

I did watch 4 episodes of Arang and the magistrate and I found it reeeeeeeeeally slow paced. I've heard so much good stuff about it though, I should give it another go. (I'm one of the few people who found City Hunter to be really boring too, I must be a weirdo)

Two weeks sounds interesting! Will watch it eventually.

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I have to agree with you on it. Despite how much I like both LJK and SMA, I could not finish Arang because it was way toooooo slow. And I cannot get rid of the thought that they should cut 4 episodes from Arang and add them to Moon Lovers. That would make Junki to have 2 perfect dramas ?

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You're not alone; I've tried three times to watch it and can't get through. If you're a LJK fan big time, then try one of his other dramas but honestly I think this is probably the best one. Too bad it has so many flaws because otherwise I think it could have been an epic classic with him in an iconic role remembered for decades.

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it could have been an epic classic with him in an iconic role remembered for decades.

This is what really makes me want to howl - *insert WE COULD HAVE HAD IT AAAAAAAALL noises here* - it COULD have been so great, one of those dramas we'd still be talking about in a decade (who knows, we may well be), but the cast and even the story was let down so badly.

I mean, I think db will never forget this role, or his performance (and it wasn't only Jun-ki causing the comments section to blow up every week, since that's never happened on the recaps of any of his previous dramas) but it could really have the place it deserves in (Korean) drama-watching collective memory if the show were just a little better put together.

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Thanks for the super fast recap, Heads!!!
One thing I will agree with Heads about is the analysis about the situation surrounding Eun & Soon Deok's death: I'm glad that the motivation and reaction behind it when it really happened was different from what Su saw in her "vision". I understand--but still am like , "Wuuut?"--- Jung's reaction to blaming So for the death of Eun & Soon Deuk: Jung only saw what happened on the surface-- which is So physically killing Eun & Soon Deuk-- but can't seem to wrap his head around the fact that Yo was the one who, albeit indirectly, caused all this blood to be poured. I think the time skip was necessary to the plot in telling Yo that our Su-So Couple actually did break off all contact with those 2 years-- and to make Yo think that, So, by breaking off contact with those inside the Palace, especially those whom So is closest to and could potentially use to get to Yo-- that So isn't a threat to Yo's position as King anymore, it's also very smart of So to do, I think, as by minimizing Yo's suspicion of So, it also helped keep Su physically safe while being in the post dangerous of places. As for our main OTP, the time skip also helps to emphasize that with So, Su has actually been very consistent (aside from that 1 TIME Su was talking to Yeon Hwa) and has always been the one who has kept their Su-So Couple promise, but we can't say the same for So. As for the "cop-out" of recycling the "mad King" plot device all throughout the drama just to move things along...? To me, this whole drama, even in the original BBJX:China with Liu Shi Sh & Nicky Wu, has always been about our OTP, so if writing in another King gone cray cray will help that along, then so be it.... Because at this point, all I really care about is our dear and precious Su-So Couple and that they get as much happiness in as possible, because who knows what other doom and gloom is coming their way, now that So is purposely vying for the throne, too? And really, after all the emotional wtf-ery that Wook had put Su in, I'm just so, so glad and happy, and giddy that Su has So, who loves her 10x more than Wook ever did, and that So SHOWS IT and PROVES IT <3

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I agree about the time skip being necessary to establish So and Su's having broken off contact (and I get why he did it too - like you said, the lack of even a letter in the two years is telling Yo something, and that something keeps Su physically safe until So's return when Yo decides to test him again by grabbing Su in front of him).

But I do think it could have been better done in the execution. It's like we're barely given the time to feel it (seriously this couple spend more actual time separated than together) before So's return.

and yes, this is now another prince in Su's life who wants the throne, and wants it even ahead of her, but this time he's honest about it and she knows his reasoning behind why he wants it. He's not lying to her and then about to cut her support out from under her feet like Wook did.

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Love your observations as usual, Pogo!

"...this is now another prince in Su’s life who wants the throne, and wants it even ahead of her..."

This kind of nuanced parallelism in the show is an example of why it keeps us busily analyzing like a team of dedicated scholars, lol: Taejo prioritized the throne over Lady Oh; Wook prioritized the throne over Hae Soo; and now So prioritizes the throne over Hae Soo. It's the why and maybe the how that make the difference.

Wook didn't have any grand noble plan for the country, but So does. Wook would have let Hae Soo hang (more than once, I believe), to stay safe and keep his path to the throne clear--what will So do? Not exactly the same as Wook, I'm sure; but like his father, he may marry a woman he doesn't love to get or keep the throne (devaluing Hae Soo in the process).

"...but this time he’s honest about it and she knows his reasoning behind why he wants it. He’s not lying to her and then about to cut her support out from under her feet like Wook did."

I am not sure about that. So did lie to her and cut her out of his life when he broke up with her; it's just that he mostly had different reasoning behind why he did it. (Also he wouldn't stand by and let her die if he could help it, which is of course the hugest difference.) So did "throw her away"; he did not become honest with her until the end of this episode, after she pretty much forced their reconciliation.

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@Jamie - I was really thinking more of the nature of Wook's relationship with Su - he made her a whole pile of promises he didn't keep about their relationship for various reasons, and for a while there she was effectively being led on by blind trust in him, which didn't even break until he literally turned away from her.

So did lie to her at the time of their breakup, but he's been honest to a fault when it comes to NOT leading her on and not making excuses for himself. He can lie to Su that his feelings for her aren't what they once were, but he can't tell her a lie he himself believes about his own ambition, the way Wook did. It's true that this time the honesty is a result of Su forcing it, but it's still playing out rather differently from when Su was asking Wook the same question.

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Oh, I understand what you're saying now, pogo. Thanks for making this clear. Such intricate nuances, such fine analysis!

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Now my head is hurt, which one is intl version was, I've watched the Chinese leak version, and the sequence of general and So happen after Eun death, but in OneTV that I saw last night, it happen during flash back..same as SBS version, so in drama cool version (usually this is an intl version but now has same version with SBS)

Where can I find this suppose intl version ?

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I noticed SBS seems to have cut off the scene in which Jung speaks to Yo after his return, and gets told that he can have anything he wants, short of the throne itself. And then goes searching for Su immediately afterwards, only to be stopped by Chae-ryung with the excuse that Su is ill, only she's actually gone after So. I think there's a pretty heavy hint there about what that "something" is (and also, that wig is terrible omg).

That said, I'm so glad So and Su actually managed to clear up that lie, but getting only one night together after TWO YEARS of separation, is a bit unfair. Give them at least a month dammit! Or even a week.

I mean, it took two years for Su to admit her own feelings, and then even after that we have another two years in between where Su is the one waiting but this time So is the one who's done the rejecting. I can get why So did it - Jeongjeong is a clear and present danger to everyone, and was obviously testing So by manhandling Su in front of him to see if he'd get mad and intervene (and of course Wook stopped Jung) and with the arrow (which, YIKES you crazy, she was literally just standing there - any beanies who've watched BBJX, how did the original arrow scene play out? Since I hear this is one of the details taken from the cdrama).

That said, it's breaking my heart to have So admit to Su that he wants the throne, even if it's for reasons we understand. She's no longer his #1 priority (and he doesn't want the throne only because of her, it makes much more sense for Eun's death to be the trigger) - that's going to have some serious fallout on their relationship. But at least he's honest with her. That's one thing I've always liked about this couple.

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In the original BBJX:China arrow scene, it was just a simple, literal, leisurely walk-in-the-palace-garden scene and the Crown Prince was the one who shot the arrow while he was playing in the garden (with a bow and arrow.... But really, who would give a child a bow and arrow to play with? *rolls eyes) and all of our beloved characters were just at the wrong place at the wrong time... But it was a scene to emotionally show when Ruo Xi (Su in "Moon Lovers") actually fell in love and decided to give her heart to Yinzhen, 4th Prince (So in "Moon Lovers)

I probably should have clarified in my own comment, but just like you, I understand and don't actually mind that So is now going for the throne and that Su has now been pushed to priority #2 because of it. It makes sense that So, a person who has such strong principles and who once had to beg for love from his own family, is now wanting to give that love to the people of his nation and is actively trying to fulfill and take the position of the King, who is the one that is responsible for the people of the nation, something that Yo-- cray cray or not-- cannot and will not ever achieve because he is a selfish and tyrant king who only looks to power and seemingly not to how to meet the needs of the people of his nation

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Oh pogo, every episode I find your comments so fascinating! haha :) Because I agree with everything!

They need more time together because I know their relationship is doomed haha but that its why their love is tragically beautiful ! Shakespeare's style!

I personally didn't like the lie situation. There is nothing more immature than doing what your are complaining about what someone did to you. So is hurt, and angry, what is his response to lie. HaeSoo is a walking vault. She will not tell anyone anything that someone else has trusted her with. One of the reasons she didn't say about Eun. The noble idiot was ahhh so idiot for me. He could easily say I want the throne now, I dont want to put you in danger, I dont want to be a dog with a leash anymore I still loved you but Im hurt and I need time. Im going away, I will note write, not visit but I want you to know why.
HaeSoo is smart and insanely loyal. She would have accept and respect. If you want to go on her bad side lie to her, and dont tell her what you really feel.

I thought oh well, it doesn't go with his character but I'll accept and respect WangSo's decision. But then easily showed he still cares, great for me because I just want them to be together but for narration it makes her noble idiot act just and idiot act. Oh WangSo you are very lucky that your girlfriend its so freaking loyal!

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@EliRod - yeah, I'm not a fan of the fact that he lied and said he didn't love her anymore, but I understand why he did it.

And in this case it isn't only noble idiocy to protect her, since giving her up means he'll have General Park's support to make an actual attempt on the throne - I like that we have a complex web of motives here, even if I hate that it separated our couple.

And yes, if it wasn't for Su waiting faithfully and pushing past his rejection (though I'd say taking an arrow for you is a big clue he still loves you), as @LemonMeringue says, that would have been the end of their relationship. (and I love that SHE is the one bold enough to leave the palace and demand the truth from him and fight for their love this time - up until now, So's been the one who was more forward with his love and Su was the one with the decision of whether to accept or reject it. But for Su, this is where she steps up, big time)

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Eun's death was definitely a trigger and wake up call for Su. Like he (and Yo previously) said- blood have been shed to get that throne. He can put an end to all that unnecessary killing if a truely good leader was to sit on it. A world can change with a good leader.
Although it saddens me that now,simply a future with Soo is not his one and only priority and he realizes he was meant to and can do things for the greater good, this is not going to bode well for our couple. Women like Evil Mom and Yeonhwa can survive the power play in the place,not our kind hearted Soo. :(

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the Chinese drama arrow scene is to make yinzhen realised that his and her feeling is still strong even after a separation,
it's to implied that even when they didn't meet at the face value, they still treasure each other and think of each other the most,
also to make yinzhed realised how well ruoxi understand what he did without having him said it to a T to make her understand, she knew why he do this and that because she understands him and he feels so grateful by how well she understands him and endure it all,

the emperor visit the 4th house with ruoxi and they talked in the garder,
then ruoxi and the 10th wife is talking near a flower, an arrow came and 4th shield her,
that the 1st skinship they have after the 8th power mechanism wins over the 4th faction,
4th didn't even show or said anything regarding his decision to detail to ruoxi so he wouldn't implicate her and it's all about the faction fight which is really big story to told,
but the point is the arrow reminds her that he still think about her a lot just like her even when they don't even meet and kinda separated since he missed the time to asked her marriage to the emperor and not active in palace anymore,

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omg the arrow scene in BBJX will forever kill me. in the book, it says the tip of the arrow is smooth/flat because ruoxi kept touching it because she missed yinzhen... T_T

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As the saying goes, Absence makes the heart grow fonder. But that's only applicable to So & Su. Whereas Jung can have it this way, Absence makes the hair grow like a horse's tail.

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omg STOOOOPPPPPP YOU ARE KILLING ME

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Everybody's talking about So, Su, Wook, Eun, Jung, etc etc. Me, I'm thinking about the soap Su gave Wook.

Does he, in moments of sadness, take it out, inhale in its scent deeply, and think back to that day she gave it to him in the snow?

Does he, longing for Su, let the soap lie next to him on his pillow, stroke its mould-caked, dried surface, pretending it's Su's face smiling at him?

Does he, on long, cold nights, sit with the soap against the wall, and make shadow puppets in the flickering candlelight? A one-man show, that tires his arms, and makes him yearn for her warm arms around him?

Or has he, in fact, bathed and used up the soap, in a petulant act of jealousy the day he realized she had fallen for So?

And don't even get me started on the pillow she made for him...

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I think Wook burnt that gaddamn emoji letter in one of his jealousy centric moments of loneliness.

The soap lost its scent.

The pillow has remnants of Wook's tears and probably saliva.

We all know the faith of that bracelet.....

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I meant, fate

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@YY, @Yoyo

Hahaha and ewwww!

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lmao YY, like I said like week, people who comment on this have good sense of humor teehee.

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In the original drama, 4th Prince and Ruoxi (Su'a Chinese counterpart) had been separated for a number of years because of a political plot that resulted in the 4th prince being framed for plotting against the king and the13th prince being sent into exile. Prior to this, the 4th prince had promise to ask for Ruoxi's hand in marriage but obviously that wouldn't fly given the new developments. Anyhoo, the 4th prince distanced himself from the palace and took up farming and religion in order to regain the emperor's trust and make it seem like he was no longer interested in the throne (in the Chinese version, desiring the throne was a huge no-no to the emperor). The arrow scene took place when the two met again a few years later while the emperor was visiting the 4th prince's residence. The 4th prince and Ruoxi finally managed to have a proper talk in the prince's garden and she expressed reluctant support of the prince's actions - the prince was in a politically precarious position and they couldn't just die together for the sake of love. Shortly after, the prince's young son, who was wandering around the garden hunting birds with his arrow misfired his arrow at Ruoxi instead and the prince jumped into save her.

That's roughly how the arrow scene in the Chinese version played out. A lot less romantic and certainly a lot less life threatening since the prince's son's arrow was just falling weakly through the air instead of Yo's deliberate attempt at Su's life here.

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@bebeswtz @EliRod @JoyBells @dena @YooeyL - thanks to everyone for answering about the BBJX arrow scene!

I admit, I was surprised by the info that it was literally a kid misfiring there, while Yo seems to be deliberately targeting Su here to check how So reacts (which is scarier, in a way)

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THE FRIGGIN ARROW SCENE -ugly sobs-

This will punch us in the face at the end, I'm prepared. T_T

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A great episode for us Soo-Su shippers but yet again i hate how they handled the time jump. I understand it was necessary but it just seemed very choppy.

I however completely understand why Soo didnt reveal the fact to Su hat she was hidding Eun-Seon Dook Couple. All her visions have come true and this time she really was being pro-active. She probabaly thought just as long as she kept Eun away from Su,they wouldnt reach that point. But sadly destiny seems to be set,no matter what Su was destined to kill Eun,even if it was mercy killing. I also get why Su left Soo,its diffucult to look at the person whose actions directly or indirectly caused his brother to die. Both needed to be apart for awhile or 2 years.

What i felt for the Eun-Seon Dook couple is probabaly how Eun felt for his wife at the last dying moment. I hadnt realized that i had grown fond of them and hoped they would somehow get their happy ending. Him calling out "buin/wife" killed me. :'(

So Woo-Hee is actually keeping tabs on Su? Is that why she joined the gibang to work for King Yo and is that their deal for him helping out her people. Baek Ah is going to be pissed.
Another scene of Jung asking King Yo. Uh oh.

Finaly awesome Su-Soo scenes. I legit squealed like a 5th grader when i saw the candle flicker. And them making shadow animals post cotius. Sigh...so damn adorable. I wish i could freeze them in that moment, they look so happy. And when they were gazing at stars. They seemed so content. This much couple moment and happiness, im now sure this drama is going to have a sad ending.

In the preview Wook is telling Soo,how she called him greedy for wanting both the throne and love but now she seems to accept that with Su. Wook has a point though. Makes me think. But i guess the difference is how their actions and reasoning brought them to that stage.

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haha, I squealed when I saw the candle go out too. Get yourselves some sweet loving, my babies! And I'm glad Su pushed him to tell the truth about his feelings for her (though how could anyone not, after he took an arrow for you)

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@pogo
Yeah,i liked how she kept at it. I like this thing about Soo character,even if at first she hesitates but once she is sure about her feelings.She doesnt seem to avoid them. It was same with Wook until he went to the dark side and they had a falling out.
You dont even need an arrow saving incident,just the look in Lee Jun Ki's eyes is enough. Haha.

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One detail I loved was that even if So never sent her any letters in those two years, Su lingered over the one So DID send her, for so long that even Chae-ryung can recognise that she copied it out, over and over and over again. That's a girl in love, all right. And I love that SHE was the one to saddle up this time and go after So, Damiwon rules and propriety be damned.

You dont even need an arrow saving incident,just the look in Lee Jun Ki’s eyes is enough.

I still haven't recovered from the way he looked when he spotted his hairpin on her, way back when. Also this is definitely one of Jun-ki's best performances ever, ik I keep coming here and swooning over his beauty but while he's actually onscreen, I don't see him 'acting', I just see Wang So. (and I thank the drama gods for all those close-ups when it's him)

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Exactly my thoughts. I don't know if I should feel bad for Wook now, but then I realized that he is totally going to end up doing something about it and that mght end up with Soo and So's imminent break up... This drama is seriously giving me headaches and anxiety that I just wish they would have an alternate ending, like a what could have been if they were not to follow through with history. Why is it that I always end up watching the saddest dramas? Lesson learned. Never be fooled by the trailers, you don't know whether or not the drama is depressing.

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I wonder how much Wook knows of So and Su's relationship, though? Prior to the forced "breakup", it seemed like EVERYONE on Yo's side knew about it, and Wook knows enough to use Su as leverage to bring So to heel.....and of course, I can see how he might view So's quest for the throne as no different from his own.

And of course So has no idea the man in Su's life before him was Wook..... I'm starting to get very nervous.

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@pogo.

Im actually surprised Soo hasnt told Su about her past with Wook when the topic has already come up once or twice. I take that as her wanting to avoid any more confrontation among the brothers.
This is going to cost all of them.

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yeah, Su's attempts to actively steer history off what she knows of it (hiding Eun and not telling So, for instance) have NOT gone well, and I have similar foreboding feelings about her having warned Wook against So back when she still thought he was the bloodthirsty brother-killer.

I'm really worried about what's going to happen when So finds out about Su and Wook, I feel like it's going to depend on So and Su's relationship at that point in time rather than just the fact of Su having pledged herself to another man.

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@pogo: "...I can see how [Wook] might view So’s quest for the throne as no different from his own."

I think you're right, Wook has such such deeply cynical motives for wanting the throne that he likely would not understand any other type of motivation--and that includes any understanding of Hae Soo at this point. In his worldview, everyone just wants power.

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Yeah, Wook's reason for wanting the throne seems to be framed as a touch more negative/defensive than So's - 'I want to protect my family and ensure they're not thrown out of the palace again' vs 'I want to make things better for everyone and no more killing brothers please'.

I really think Wook wouldn't be able to comprehend the latter idea - he'd just see it as So making an excuse to grab power.

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I think everyone know SoSoo at this point except dummy Jung.

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Oh,Wook is definitely going to do something about it. He has watched from the sidelines and play a slow game and lost both the throne and girl in the process.

This drama makes me anxious too,even with all its flaws im completely in love with it. I was hoping that the creative license disclaimer meant we could have an alternate ending but with how closely the show is following the history so far,a sad ending is seeming more probable.

I actually started watching this after Uncontrobally fond. Now im going to pick a light rom-com next. Too much of sadness. Lol.

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Funny thing you say that cause I also started watching this after Uncontrollably Fond.. I've already been broken hearted from that show that I guess i'm prepared to handle whatever will happen with this one. I guess we just luck out on choosing dramasXD

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Funny thing @pogo and @joybells I'm starting to get anxious because I know what happens, so I'm freaking out about how much or how little are they gonna change it in this version! ?

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Yes, I'm actually more anxious than ever BECAUSE I know some crucial details now (I blame myself for going over to koalasplayground and reading up on her synopsis of the novel which she made five years ago, she is a huge fan), and I'm worried to death about how Scarlet Heart is going to play out.

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I expect nothing less from VoldeWook himself.

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I guess I saw the international version then, because I was looking at Head's recap and there was a scene that I saw that was not written here.

Basically, Jung visits Yo at his throne, and Yo thanks him for patrolling the border. He lets Jung have whatever he wants, as long as it's not the throne itself. Jung starts to answer, but the scene cuts to him looking for Hae Soo.... so we don't know what he asked for, but I have a feeling that he asked for her hand in marriage? Especially since he's had a long ass crush on her too? Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Either way, I'm not sure if that will develop into anything, but my curiosity is bubbling!

Any ideas you guys???

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My guess was exactly that- we know court ladies can be freed from their positions by special favour of the king, and if Jung asked for Su's hand in marriage, I can see why he'd be rushing to tell her afterwards.

(though this makes me a touch nervous because he's never breathed a word to her directly about liking her as a woman, the SBS version didn't even have his 'I'm a MAN now, I'm no longer calling you nui' speech from episode 13).

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it's very heavily hinted that Jung asked Yo for the royal decree to marry Soo.

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Yep. Which also means So can't marry her now, if she's formally promised to someone else. Even assuming she could get past So's existing in-name-only marriage to the child princess, to marry him.

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I don't like Jung in this version, I wish they picked a better actor. Jung somehow at the end is gonna pull out "well I have the royal decree" card and Soo will have to marry him. FAHSKJFHASJKF

only 4 episodes left, I'm prepared for heartbreak T_T

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I actually do like Jung a lot, despite his terrible wig and his misguided hatred of So. But I do feel like the directing/story choices messed up Ji-soo quite a bit too, apart from the obvious flaws like him still looking like a little kid even when he's supposed to be a general, and his issues with sageuk speech (seriously, someone take him off puppy mode! And get him to stand straighter!).

But apart from that, he does intense emotion pretty well, and does it especially well in scenes with Lee Jun-ki (I'm convinced the answer is just to have him interact more with So). As with IU, I may be more forgiving because I've seen his prior projects and I know just how he can bring it in a performance that demands it, but yeah, this is not one of his better performances.

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@pogo

I know, his sageuk speech ugh. You can definitely hear a difference when LJG speaks sageuk tone, he sounds perfect. IU needs to work on her sageuk tone a bit but i guess she comes from the future it's understandable.

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@cherryarrow - Lee Jun-ki speaks sageuk so naturally, even if I can't understand more than 50 percent of what he says it's so easy to tell. Like it's not too mannered or stiff, he just sounds like that's the way he naturally speaks. And his voice just finishes me off.

I don't have an issue with IU's sageuk tone precisely because of the time-traveller premise. I could be wrong but I think she actually sounds a touch more sageuk-like in recent episodes, which could just be IU herself getting a little better at it or the progression of Su's transformation into a Goryeo woman and her getting more used to the language. And also the change in demeanour after Lady Oh's execution and her eventual promotion to Damiwon head.

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As hard it is for me to say this since I've been loving Scarlet Heart since episode 1, the editing here is just tragic. Such a good show with a potentially good plot and A-list actors all go to waste all because of the editing. For some reason I actually preferred the int. version for most of the episode, especially the kiss scene. For one, as romantic as it was that we got two kisses in the SBS version, I really liked how they hugged each other as if they have been longing to be together for so long, I mean of course we had that "timeskip" which completely went past my head. Then I saw a few flaws with it too, in the int. version So's hands go down to Soo's back, then the next frame you see his hands holding her face?¿ What's going on now.?¿. Then in the SBS version, Soo placed her arms around So then in the next frame before the second kiss it was down... How did they miss this? I swear, I'm not punctilious but it was one of the first things I noticed when I saw the scene. As many people want Soo to be pregnant, am I the only one who doesn't want her to be? I mean it's inevitable that it's going to end up as a miscarriage anyway just like the C-version so why bother giving us hope when you're going to end up tearing our hearts apart in the end?? It's at this point where I'm really on the edge of my seat not knowing how this drama will end. Will Hae Soo and So have that happy ending everyone wants? Or will the drama stay loyal to history and make Yeon Hwa the bitch princess (sorry that's what I call her) marry So and have Soo die in the end:'(? I don't really know how to feel about the fact that Ha Jin might end up meeting a reincarnated So since it's such a cliché that always tends to happen in time traveling dramas... I hope they somewhat make a good twist in the end that will leave me satisfied with the story, then I might be able to forgive the horrendous editing...
P.S.
I had never hated baseball as much as I did this week... I felt bad that people are hating on YouKou because they accidentally aired the show, causing the ratings to plummet down, but what can you do when SBS announced that the show is cancelled last minute?Does Korea not have a sports channel? Since KBS just finished their latest drama this week, can they air the baseball game instead? I hope the game can end early next week so we can have the schedule the drama was supposed to have and have two episodes for the last week, but secretly i'm kind of ok with it if they end up extending it to November 7 since that's my birthday... I can consider it a birthday gift then ( if it's a good ending though)

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Except for the missing backhug scene, which is huge for us to feel Su, I like the flow of the international version better. Why couldn't they just put all of those scenes in one ep? (end of rant)

This is a very emotional episode that I cried a whole lot. I feel So's pain for not being trusted as well as Su's painful regret for what she had done. That backhug, the longing to connect with him with every inch of her... that was so sad. I felt like pleading with her and grabbing So by the leg. I wonder why this wasn't in the international version, it was such a moving scene.

While I feel the So-Su moments, I am disliking Jung. He has such a misplaced angst against So. Even Yo is better than him in, not really appreciating, but knowing So. Yo is ruthless but seems deep inside he knows So is a good person. It is also kind of So to acknowledge how Yo's evil deeds might had been harder on Yo than they were aware of, he still pitied him despite his wrongdoings.

Oh and continuing with this show's penchant to leave gaps for us to fill, did any of you dizzyingly continued on in your head the scene after that candle flickered out? I sure did, haha! Dirty, dirt me! ^_^

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yeah, I was wincing through the scene where So finally confronts Su about hiding Eun - it HURTS to see him so hurt by Su's lack of trust. It's like we're back at episode 9, only sadder this time because Su does love him.

I get why Jung is the way he is, and So was never going to be his favourite brother, but it saddens me because they're so similar at the core - both essentially decent people who put their loyalties and love ahead of everything else, but at this point the misunderstanding is almost wilful. I'm glad we got Su not only understanding why So did what he did, but actually telling Jung that So did it as Eun's last wish.

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Oh, and one more similarity between So and Jung (I'm calling this right now) - both are 100 percent capable of offering Su a platonic/instantly-dissolved marriage to get her out of the palace. Only, well, at least So asked HER first.

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On the contrary, I like how Jung's character (hair not included!) is so displaced that it makes it hard for us to know where his loyalty lies. We all know he's got the hots for Su, but his little boiling pot of angst brewing from So's actions and relationship with Su, his family's dysfunctional set up and his growing inhibitions will all start to stir things up in the palace and it might be at someone's expense.

Jung is the dark horse in a dark place but has really no impact yet to the storyline and with 4 episodes left, anything can really happen.

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I agree about enjoying Jung as the dark horse and not knowing which direction he's headed, Yoyo!

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yeah, Jung is the dark horse/wild card/element of surprise in the current situation, and I'm wondering how the show will play out the storylines he's getting now (his feelings for Su, his intense and misplaced - almost wilful - hatred of So, and the fact that he's Queen SMSS's most favoured son).

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Yup, So and Jung are alike in how they love Su unconditionally. Jung is So had he grew up pampered.

I am a little relieved though that, at least, Jung is quite aware that Su doesn't see him as a man. I'm just hoping that like So, he will not push himself to Su this time and only wish for her (from Yo) so as to get out of the palace. Jung sacrificing for Su will be the type of noble idiocy I would welcome, for the sake of my So-Su ship.

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Unlike Heads, I don't mind two kings going crazy, one from mercury poisoning, the other from guilt, I just mind that both weren't milked a little more. Maybe Yo will make up for that next episode.

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I think I've heard enough gong smashing from Yo.

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Lol!

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@Yoyo
Haha. I had my earphones on and volume high. Boy....did i regret it. Was so glad when Evil Queen stopped him.
But i rather he smash gongs than shoot down kid brothers. :/

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Ha! Yeah I don't need more of that either. But both kings deserved a little more depth. As do Jung and Baek Ah. All of them really. I remember in episode one or two, I had a discussion with a few people about how the director was bad at directing group scenes, particularly the princes. The only prince that got enough build up and development was Eun.

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Seriously, Eun got so much screen time at first that it actually came off disproportionate, and it really didn't help that he was as irritating as a character could get. Plus Baekhyun really couldn't quite pull off playing the immature/bratty character so that was another pitfall. But he came through on the death scene, and did it well.

I like Baek-ah and Jung better as characters, and Jung in particular kept getting more character moments in the latter half of the drama (though his scenes often end up cut from the SBS version so idk how well it's really being established to all audiences). But the whole 'Baek-ah falls in love with Baekje princess' storyline was ridiculous, I liked him so much better when he's So/Su's buddy and on his own.

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Politics and greed for power can really drive people crazy. Today's politicians are just lucky to have lots of therapists around these days. Psychiatrists are badly needed in the palace.

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Well, they have astronomer, Ji Mong, who can see their still bright or falling stars in the sky. Although So doesn't believe in that stuff.

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I guess it was a good sign that So was friends with the closest thing Goryeo has to a psychiatric, lol. At least he has someone to talk things out with so he doesn't go crazy.

(Mu was bffs with Ji-mong but his crazy was a result of mercury poisoning so I let him pass)

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What an episode. My head is still spinning and as I clear away the piles of crumpled tissues I need to use during the first five minutes, my one clear thought right now is...

I wonder what name would be appropriate to give to that black candle? I vote for...

"Goryeo Glory: Just Do It."

:D I shall be more when I'm slightly more coherent..going to rewatch now!!!

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ikr?! Those first five minutes were absolutely gutting, hats off to all the actors there. I'll miss Eun and Soon-deok :(

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Cuckoo kings. Sure, one was poisoned, but could they be genetically predisposed to go cray at one point? LOL

I rewatched the first few episodes and I kinda missed Wook when he was so much nicer. :(

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Oh man, I feel bad for laughing at the scene when JM told So and Su the reason why the king's condition worsened. The way he said it just cracked me up "you know we only intended to give him a little scare....but then the monk was struck by lightning and got burned alive right in front of the king. Oops." (obviously I added the oops but that was all that's missing in JM's narration lol)

First I was like what?! O.o How? Did the monk combust...being struck by lightning can cause horrible burns but do they mean literal burning? Umm...o..k.
Then I couldn't help it but imagine that whole scene with manic Yo's reaction (complete with golden dangly earrings - sorry I can't take him serious with those) and laughed even harder - yeah I know I'm gonna rot in hell.

(Disclaimer: I'm not saying that someone dying of burns or witnessing something that horrific is funny, just that the whole scenario sounded so absurd.)

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Dont worry..you are not alone...i lol too..because Jimong narration was so funny...his tone was somehow hillarious albeit the fatal incident he was describing..imagining it makes it worse..i just 'wth..hahahaha!!'.

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Don't feel bad, it really sounded funny. Ji Mong was like, "would you believe it?" like a joke gone bad :-D

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Heart attack

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And then So caps the whole thing by saying, 'he was always sensitive'. WTF? I was totally laughing out loud through that scene though I don't think I was supposed to. I wish they had shown the lightening strike. Yo's feaction could have really lightened up this whole melo episode.

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I watched the international version and I agree with what's been said here that the editing was better done and flowed a lot more logically with the conversation with the General Park and So happening before that gut wrenching break - up. It showed very explicitly that the reason So was dumping Soo was to gain General Park's support, to harden his determination for the throne and protect her from those seeking to use her against him

What is more arguable is if her mistrust of him leading to Eun's death could be a contributing factor in his decision. I think it was more of a convenient excuse for him to break it off with her and he used it, knowing she would be already be blaming herself for it. I don't know, but what kind of sealed it for me was when he opened with, "you must think I am a monster for killing Eun" like he was inviting her to be horrified at what he had done - like he was trying to induce her to leave him first. Instead, she was understanding, so he had no choice but to resort to using her mistrust of him as a means to break up. And I do believe it was the last resort because he knew just how much doing it this way would cut her and he wanted to avoid it if possible

I thought this was a good lesson to Soo though - she has started to take So and his undying love for granted. He has been doing all the chasing and all she had to do was sit there and be woo-ed.

Him marrying the little princess forced her to confront the fact that she does indeed love him. This episode was about her finally deciding to trust man she has gotten to know, rather than in the evil tyrant she has learned from history. What seals it for her is when she sees her vision coming true, in the most twisted, heartwrenching hysterical breakdown scene ever (mad acting props to LJK honestly the man needs an award)

Her conflicting feelings of whether to trust in the man she has gotten to know versus the evil gwangjong she knows from history has been an ongoing theme in the preceeding episodes. I feel that previously, despite loving him, she still had not fully resolved these conflicting feelings. Imagine a scenario where a man with a history of serial cheating had started to chase you - no matter how sweet he is, you would be wary. Only instead of cheating it is fracticide. And instead of it being all in the past with the future unwritten, this is a certain future that she has seen already happened. I don't blame her for being cautious, frustrating though it is because wtf girl he drank poison and was willing to kneel to a traitor for you!!

My rambling point is that she needed to have this shock to come to an active decision to fully trust him.And we see her (finally!) actively fighting and risking it all to preserve their love - instead of merely reacting to So's advances - culminating in the most suggestive candle flicker in the world lol

Goodnight Eun :'( Eun really stepped up and became a man in those last minutes. Soon Deok would...

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Yeah, I don't think So would have broken up with her if it wasn't for General Park's demand that he sacrifice someone to have the throne and also his awareness that Su was in constant danger from Yo as long as Yo thought of her as 'his'. But rather than a handy excuse, I think it's more like he channels the hurt he felt at not being trusted by Su, into the breakup. I think they'd have had a very hard conversation about trust anyway even without the throne/threat hanging over their heads, but So wouldn't have actually gone as far as breaking it off with her if it wasn't for those.

I'm still not a fan of the fact that he lied, but I understand why he did it - and I like that it isn't 100 percent noble idiocy, So stands to gain something from it too.

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I do agree that it works as a good wakeup call to Su on trust, though. It's just sad that it takes such extreme events to really get it through to her - first the news of So's marriage waking her up to her own feelings (though she kind of did have the realisation even before that, since she wore his hairpin to accept what she thought was going to be a love confession/marriage proposal BEFORE knowing of So's marriage), and now Eun's death as an indirect result of her own reluctance to trust So in the face of those visions.

But I think Su's finally got it through her head that how she initially interprets those visions isn't always how they play out in reality. And also the poison-drinking, kneeling-before-traitor, and taking an arrow for her might (hehe) also play a factor in that realisation - So isn't someone who kills lightly. So's breakdown after killing Eun was masterfully played, too - I honestly thought he was going a little crazy (and no wonder - forced to forsake his dead brother and kneel to a traitor, now forced to actually kill the most innocent of his brothers.....no wonder he's hysterical)

And I swooned @the candle flicker. Good thing I was already sitting down, so no injuries resulted, haha.

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Yeah I completely agree with you - the hurt he felt at her mistrust was definitely real and something they had to address but not in itself enough to induce him to break up with her. I loved how the reasons were so complicated and layered and as you pointed out, not 100% noble sacrifice.

It is kind of heartbreaking that Grand General Park's ultimatum was the main driving factor behind it all and it goes to show how she isn't his only priority anymore. She is now a sacrifice he is willing to make in order to get the throne and I get that his intentions are noble and just but it does make me nostalgic for, as what has been already pointed out in this discussion thread, the days of his "pure", single focused love and devotion towards Soo. Sigh if only Soo had agreed to run away with him back then! They would have lived their lives out happily and purely for each other untainted by the throne :'(

Also shout out to Wang So's panicked expression after protecting her from the arrow! Lee Joon Gi's just amazing - he barely had any dialogue in that whole scene but he conveyed so clearly his desperation to protect Soo. Like even the way he roughly jerked his injured arm out of her concerned hold was done not out of anger but pure fear and panic. You can practically feel his eyes screaming "no no don't act so lovey and concerned we need to SELL this Soo!!! Even though clearly no one buys it for a minute!"

Also I watched the SBS version and the only thing I liked more about it was the back hug where Soo was pleading with So. That was heartbreaking :( and you can really see So wavering when she expresses all these concerns about how he has been eating and sleeping because that's one of the reasons why he fell for her in the first place - she is by nature a motherly and affectionate person, and as Freudian as it is, she has somewhat become a mother figure to him as well (their cutest moments are when she is naggy at him to take care of himself). He said so before he doesn't distinguish between romantic and plutonic affection. Possibly because he has been so starved of both poor baby :( she is literally his everything: mother, best friend and lover all into one adorable IU shaped package

Also I felt that the fact that they actually did it was MUCH more explicitly implied in the SBS version - those long long kisses teehee! More in the next episode please!

Ugh is it just me or does Woo Hee's entire traitor subplot seem entirely unnecessary? They now seem to be making drama for the sake of drama. She and Baek Ah are cute together but I really don't want to see that much more of her - especially when they introduced her so late in the season that i don't know how they are going to resolve all these loose ends in 4 episodes! There is still Chae Ryong's treason to start with, and the unravelling of Wook's and YH'S part to play in all of this :(

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Also I do realise that I am harping on this but it's only because it really bothered me when I was watching the previous episode: I really don't think Soo's decision to not tell So contributed to Eun and Soon Deok 's death at all. I think they would have died anyway, whatever she did.

They had the perfect plan and perfect escape route. If she had told So that night it is likely he wouldn't have changed a thing about it. They couldn't move up the schedule to move them away from the palace because the 5 boats were only scheduled to leave then. They were safe in Damiwon, and even had So knew, he wouldn't have been able to foresee YH finding out and selling out her younger brother

Likely the only thing that would change is that he would have been there to escorts them out and when the soldiers poured in he could have fought along earlier with Soon Deok and Eun but they were already going to be outnumbered and as good a fighter So is he alone cannot fight off a whole army. Especially with Yo's archery skills. The outcome would likely be a slightly longer fight, but would end with Eun pierced by Yo's arrows and him requesting So to kill him so he is able to join his wife. You cannot escape fate :(

I still think after all he had done and proved himself over and over, Soo should have trusted him and told him the truth. She misjudged and inadvertently revealed the fact that she does not quite trust him yet which is tremendously unfair and hurtful to So. BUT. It is important to note that telling So would not have prevented Eun's death, no matter how hard they would have tried. It is tragic but it was simply their time :( and what a way they both went - fighting to the end to protect each other. I really hope they get a happy ending in the future or something, as cheesy as it would be!

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@Fanngy: "...even had So knew, he wouldn’t have been able to foresee YH finding out and selling out her younger brother"

Do you think, at this point, So realizes it was Yeon Hwa who sold Eun and Soon Deok out? I don't think he's had time to think it through; but I also don't think he realizes it was her behind the original Mu tea-poisoning plot, either...and that was a long time ago, and he's had a lot of time to think.

If he did find out, would So still marry Yeon Hwa to get or keep the throne?

Questions like these keep me up at night. ;)

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OH Fanngy, I totally agree with you. While everyone else seemed to be so angry with Hae Su for not revealing Eun's whereabouts to So, I truly believe that her plan was a perfectly feasible plan. Audience member who dislike her choice dislike the fact that it reveals that she doesn't fully trust So, but given the lack of information she was initially given, I don't think it's unreasonable. Again and again, she has acted in the interest of saving her friends, using all of her resources and abilities, and I really can't find fault with those actions.

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@Jamie - there's a scene in the international version where So goes to Yeonhwa at her writing desk and asks about it, and Yeonhwa said she caught them because of Eun's towel animals and that Su was hiding them. So's certainly aware she sold out the kids, at least in one version of our story.

(damn jigsaw-puzzling multiple versions!)

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- sorry, I meant I saw that scene in the Chinese version from youku (damn why is it so hard to keep them all straight)

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Fanggy - <33333 your comment, I will reply to it in more detail later.

I do agree that Eun and Soon-deok would have died anyway because it would have come true no matter what, but Su's hiding them did indirectly lead to their deaths in this version of how the vision played out. It's not much consolation that it was inevitable - in the end, action or inaction lead to the same conclusion but it's the journey that changes, and sometimes that's equally if not more important (So cutting Eun down to megalomaniacal laughter vs So laugh-crying hysterically after being asked by Eun himself to deliver the death blow).

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@pogo: "@Jamie – there’s a scene in the international version where So goes to Yeonhwa at her writing desk and asks about it, and Yeonhwa said she caught them because of Eun’s towel animals and that Su was hiding them. So’s certainly aware she sold out the kids, at least in one version of our story."

I saw this version, too! I thought So knew Yeon Hwa knew about Eun and Soon Deok hiding in the Damiwon (she said it was obvious, like many people could have known), but not necessarily that she was the one who informed on them.

But maybe I am not giving So enough credit for connecting the rather obvious dots, as I feel he's somewhat in denial about Yeon Hwa's evil nature. She was one of the few who seemed to care about him, after all.

If he did realize, wouldn't he make more of a scene about it?

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@pogo:

In my (admittedly faulty) memory, the scene went like this: So goes to Yeon Hwa and asks her if she knew that Eun was in the Damiwon. She says something along the lines of "Of course, it was obvious" (and she either asks or implies, "Who didn't know? Didn't you know?"--with the further implication of, "didn't Hae Soo (your great love) tell you?"). He asks how she knew, and she said, there were the towel animals Eun used to make all over the Damiwon. And then So leaves her.

Here I thought Yeon Hwa was masterfully saying that anyone could have known (and therefore informed on Eun), and that So didn't because he had naively trusted that Hae Soo would tell him. So she's deflecting blame for herself, and planting doubt about Hae Soo's loyalty to and trust of So.

I really feel if So realized Yeon Hwa was the one to sell out Eun, he would have blasted her for cold-bloodedly and deliberately causing the death of their innocent little brother. There would have been a big rift.

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@Jamie - it appears my interpretation of the scene was wrong, because I took the very fact of So's going to Yeonhwa in that scene and asking her about it, to mean he knew that she had a role to play in selling out Eun and Soon-deok. But it appears the actual dialogue was a little more ambiguously phrased.

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"Ugh is it just me or does Woo Hee’s entire traitor subplot seem entirely unnecessary? They now seem to be making drama for the sake of drama."

It's not just you, Fanggy: I'm tired of her subplot, too. I feel it's wasting valuable drama time (though maybe we'll be proved wrong later--maybe it's a necessary plot point).

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I hope so! Though I have a hunch that Woo Hee and Baek Ah are likely going to be the only couple with a happy ending now that Eun and Soon Deok are gone. As I understand it, in the C version, the tenth prince gets the happy ending. Maybe in the K version it is transferred to Baek Ah (likely famous last words before the next episode does something horrible to him D:)

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That sucks because Woo-hee and Baek-ah are my least favourite couple. I mean, I like Baek-ah but Woo-hee? No thank you. Maybe I'd like her if she were better acted.

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Couldn't have said it better.

I reached the same conclusion as you that So was primarily motivated by his determination to go for the throne when he asked to break up.

He understands, I think, why Hae Soo did what she did, and had forgiven her already. Seeing the letter she left with Ji Mong would have assured him of her faith in him.

Whatever he said, was said to justify the breakup in terms that she would understand as being severe enough for it to be permanent.

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And yes, it's not the typical noble idiocy excuse fuelling the breakup. So wants to be king, and he is choosing to end it so that he can be one step closer to the throne. And that makes it heartbreaking (sob).

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Ohh the letter to Ji Mong! Good shout out! I had completely forgotten about that. Yeah I completely agree with you that seeing the scene with the letter was meant to convey that he understood that she had trusted him in the end and that he had forgiven her. These two self sacrificing idiots :(

At least they treated us to like five whole minutes of adorable lovey SooSo fluff to make up for the trauma of the last 50 minutes! Literally only thing that healed my broken soul lol

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Knowing the importance of Hae Su's handwriting (i.e. it's similarities to his) and the fact that Wang So DID NOT open the letter from her, is this going to come back and bite us in the ass after HS's presumed death when she writes the letter to WS?

I AM ALREADY GUTTED BY THE POSSIBILITIES.

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@Seltzerwater I'm also waiting to see how the similar handwriting will play out in this adaptation along with the artifacts she's collected as mementos like the arrow.

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YO HAS FINALLY BURGUNDY EYES LOL! that eye shadow of death tho HAHAHAHA

Not much Kang Ha Neul appearance in this ep </3

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LOL yes!!! Yo is soooo fab with the new eyeliner look hahaha

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This drama! My head hurts, my heart aches, but I'm oddly enjoying every single pain.

4 more episodes to getting my life back.

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you basically described my life lol

I'm afraid of the end, I don't even know how we're all going to take it. There aren't even any new dramas to distract me!

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Lol. I'm sad though that it's ending coz I will have to wait another year to see LJK again :(

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NOOOOO DON'T REMIND ME :(

And now we all need to put in our collective prayers that his next project isn't screwed over by shoddy production. He's great, and I really think Wang So should go in his top 5 performances if not the actual top or very close (because he's just that good) and I wouldn't consider Scarlet Heart a waste of that precious one drama a year we get out of him, but it could have been so much better.

(and please give him a costar he matches with too, the thought of the one we were initially threatened with in Scholar Who Walks the Night still makes me shiver from the disaster that would have been)

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I won't consider Scarlet Heart a waste either. The character of Wang So really showcased LJK's range as an actor. He is great here. It's one of his top performances.

I read a post in Soompi that said that SBS basically gave up on SH and didn't care much for its broadcast; hence, all the messiness in the editing and stuff. It can be just a speculation but it made me mad. SBS's lack of commitment screwed up the actors and crew who put in so much hard work into this.

Was he threatened with Jin Se Yeon in SWWTN? I forgot.

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@Lin_K - I don't think I'll ever be over just how badly screwed up those first episodes were.

And yeah, we were threatened with THAT last year. I know Lee Yubi is pretty heavily criticised for that role, but she was a thousand times better suited to be the heroine of a drama. It's a shame the writing let her down.

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Another 2 years TIME JUMP sheeshhh. The transition of seasons was beautifully made though but enough with the time jump.

I also hate that BASEBALL GAME, fans always look forward for the upcoming episodes but deymmm game. It's an agony while waiting. Next week there will be a baseball game, same time and day :(

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oh yeah, I liked that they used a way to show the passage of time that wasn't simply a title card reading '2 years later' etc.

I have a feeling we're headed for at least one more time jump.

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I too liked the transition they showed here.

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There is a game again next week? So when is the drama ending? I thought it was gonna end on Nov 1.

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@pogo- My head hurts every time there is a time jump lol hahaha

@Lin_K- It's hard to predict when is the drama ending. The baseball games sometimes finishes off early just like the first baseball match that they aired. And sometimes they cancel our Moon Lovers because it finishes late just like what happen this week.

I heard from twitter that SBS was supposed to released the back to back eps of 16 and 17 last Oct 18. Just like what they did on eps 1 and 2. But I guess SBS got upset because of the LEAKED episode from youku which had greatly affect their ratings.

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SBS has no room to be complaining, they marketed this as a simulcast and then were idiot enough not to coordinate properly with Youku and the other channels showing the drama. It's their fault for prioritising baseball over their drama without taking overseas airing into account.

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I'm so annoyed at SBS, how can they pull this sh*t, they literally waited till last minute to announce the episode was cancelled. They totally could have broadcasted the episode. I feel so bad for the actors, they're so hardworking but it's not paying off in Korea

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Seriously, I'm starting to think it wasn't only the production team for this drama that needs to be raked over the coals for half-assing their jobs, the network appears no better.

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@pogo

LJG joked a few yrs back it's SBS' fault that he's not getting a daesang, well it's kinda true now.

The ratings this week is such a huge drop it's ridiculous! I hope SBS learns their lesson

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/sigh

This is the first drama he's done for SBS since his return from military service, and it's really annoying that the channel appears to be doing everything they can to mess up, on top of the production's own colossal blunders.

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@cherryarrow- I just read an article about Lee Jun Ki feeling sad and disappointed about the tv ratings of Moon Lovers. Poor guy, as the main lead guy here he feels the sense of responsibility with the drama's success. C'mon k-watchers the staff and actors did great in this drama.

@pogo- I hate SBS for not showing the back-back episodes this week. Fans are waiting in agony because of this.

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@Go HoHo

Yes I just read it too. It's so unfair, I feel terrible for LJG.... I'm surprised that the article didn't mention about the huge international success. I mean look at LJG's instagram followers, they doubled within a month....

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seriously, this production had ALL the ingredients for a successful drama but I feel like they just took everything for granted. I feel so bad for Jun-ki, international success notwithstanding - it's headed to 2 billion views on youku but seeing the domestic ratings and SBS slopping around on scheduling, has to hurt.

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@cherryarrow- Yas, we can literally see the huge success of drama overseas, even in different SNS. Also they had a great casting, I asked my korean friend if she watches the drama. Sad to say that she doesn't watch it because of baek's so-called "awkward" acting in the first few eps. But c'mon he did improve with his acting, I watched him act on Exo Next Door and i can truly say that he nailed his role in Moon Lovers.

@pogo- I guess pdnim's decision of choosing a broadcasting tv channel was wrong. Poor actors,actresses and staff for their efforts. Still good to know that we international fans highly appreciate their work.

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@GoHoHo - frankly, the PD himself messed up enough with those early episodes, and now SBS can't be bothered to take care of the drama anymore thanks to the resulting ratings. I can see how that happened, the cast really deserved better.

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@pogo- I guess another factor was also having 2 different versions of the drama starting from ep 5 or 6 i think. Viewers (Korean or international) are missing some of important scenes in the drama. Like myself, I download the international version one, and sometimes I get confused while reading the recaps here in dramabeans because of the missing scenes.

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I wonder who is really to blame b/c I don't think Korean production works the same way as American. In the American hierarchy, it goes like this:

Director: controls the performance of the actors
DP (cinematographer): controls the LOOK of the film, the angle of the shots, the lighting
Editor: assembles the scenes which have been shot into a logical storytelling progression
Producer: controls financing aspects of project
Executive Producer: Often the liaison between the studio and the crew. Technically the Director's boss.
Studio Executive: Gives notes on rough cuts, fine cuts, and picture lock cuts. Responsible for final look of the film. Also the Director's boss. Studio execs usually get final say on which version of the film goes out.

So what does a PD do? Because it sounds like a PD is some what of a combo of Director/DP/and EP

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I think SBS did not want to pissed of the fans or that they are prioritising the baseball game, I think its strategic in their part not to go head-on with Moonlight Drawn by Clouds finale week since everyone knows that the other drama is raking the ratings in already, so why not wait it out this week and see how everything flares next week.

Moonlight might be winning the ratings locally but I like that Scarlet had carved its niched in the international fans.

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@Go HoHo - Okay, thank you.

@Go HoHo, Pogo, and cherryarrow - SBS does not seem to be forth a decent effort to broadcast the drama properly. It's like it gave up on SH. I think it is due to the low ratings. If the drama doesn't bring ratings and success to the network, why bother, right?? SBS (and MBC) is infamous for handing out awards and accolades to dramas that have high ratings, even if the story is crap. I feel bad for the cast and crew, especially LJK.

I don't understand why someone won't watch the drama just because Baek's acting was bad in the initial episodes. He is only a minor character here.

It's good that this drama is a huge success internationally. I know many people who are addicted to this. And close to 2 billion views in YouKu? I'm so happy to hear that!!

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@Lin_K- I guess some Korean viewers expected way to much about each actor's acting beacuse of the power casting of this drama. That's why even Baek's performance was also criticized...poor baby! I'm glad he redeemed himself after those comments about him by k-viewers.

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I am writing from India and me and my friends are so following the drama online. Everyone has acted really well especially LJG and Wook but yeah the editing and direction could've been much better :(
This is the first LJG drama that I have watched. Now I am planning to watch more.

Cheers!!

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Indeed this time the jump was done visually beautiful. But we've had so many, can they at least shoot snippets of what Su might be doing far away from the palace even for just two minutes. Fe having him stand in from of a castle while a group of overworked builders place one stone above another would be a huge improvement. Heck even a closeup of his face and his mind wandering would suffice. Here is to the next time jump..

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YES to all of this. I was just thinking about this, how good it would have been to seen the 2 years from both their perspectives.

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@fab- IKR!! same sentiments my friend. I had enough of those time jumps they eating to much story and information of what the heck is happening to our characters during those times.

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yeah, I would have loved to see that. But I think they've stuck with the choice to retain Su as our POV character, so the time jumps are seen through her eyes first/in terms of the changes in her life.

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