Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 15
by HeadsNo2
Our heroine finally does some stepping up this hour, and it couldn’t come at a more welcome time. Just when we thought we’d lost our eyes and ears into this strange world of princes and transparent political machinations, we get a semblance of that back with the resurgence of Su as a thinking, decision-making human being. All this action will probably end in high stakes death threats for her, but what else is new?
EPISODE 15 RECAP
Given the choice between saving Su or remaining faithful to the late King Hyejong, So drops his sword and drops to his knees before Yo. With tears in his eyes, So grits out his allegiance to the new KING JEONGJONG, third monarch of Goryeo.
We get a flashback of a young Crown Prince Mu, an equally young Astronomer Choi, and a tiny So (before he was scarred). Astronomer Choi had reassured Mu that he had the star of a king, but he’d asked Mu what he would do if his lifeline didn’t last very long.
The young prince had claimed that the length of his life wasn’t as important as who he spent his final days with, proving that he had a good temperament even as a child. That’s when So Lite chimed in to say that he wanted to become king too, and Astronomer Choi told him not to worry—he would also become king.
In the present, Astronomer Choi looks down at the pitiful corpse of King Hyejong and calls upon the other princes to respectfully see to his remains. Elsewhere in the room, Su whispers for So to rise to his feet, claiming that all of this happened because of her.
In answer, So drags her out of the palace, only to be stopped by ninth prince Won. Won delightfully informs him that under the new king’s command, if Su were to somehow disappear from Damiwon, then he’d spread the news throughout Goryeo that she poisoned the late King Hyejong.
There’s turmoil over at tenth prince Eun’s home as King Jeongjong seeks to solidify his power by ridding himself of his pesky brother. Eun and his wife have already escaped though, so the king returns to the palace to commend Wook on his evil deeds. Apparently, it was Wook who advised him to use Su to keep So in check.
The king’s uncle, Minister of the Left Wang Shik-ryeom, bids Wook to kneel before his new king. Wook keeps his poker face on as he does so, repeating the same chants of “Manseh!” as So did earlier.
King Jeongjong sits on the throne he coveted for so long, decreeing that Eun must be found in order for their plot (of making Eun’s grandfather seem as though he was planning a revolt, or something) to work. I love how Wook is all, “If only we knew a hunting dog skilled in matters like these…”
Eun’s grandfather Wang Gyu is caught and executed, along with other members of Eun’s family. Queen Sinmyeongsunseong watches the butchery and smiles her biggest smile yet, since she couldn’t be any prouder of her son. I’m officially convinced that this woman is the devil.
However, what King Jeongjong says next takes her by surprise: He wants her out of palace affairs, which he’ll take care of from now on. She can just live comfortably, which is not what the new Queen Mother wants.
She’s especially incensed that King Jeongjong is even entertaining the idea of keeping So around, despite Jeongjong’s claims that So saved his life by holding back when he stabbed him on the edge of the cliff. He gives So the mission Wook not-so-subtly hinted at: Find Eun and kill him. If he doesn’t, then he’ll be putting Baek-ah, Astronomer Choi, and even Su in danger.
After So’s gone, the king proves that he’s not grateful at all to So for saving his life, and finds the sympathy So showed him upsetting. As to why he’s keeping him around, he tells his mother that it’s more fun to try taming him for now.
So tells Grand General Park and Astronomer Choi of the new mission the king’s given him, but leaves out the part about killing both Eun and his wife. Since Soon-deok is General Park’s daughter, he warns So that he won’t stand by and let his daughter get caught up in a fight amongst princes.
Later, So pulls Su aside to tell her that it’s now common knowledge that the king died from mercury poisoning, but no one knows who the culprit is. He wants her to lay low for the time he’ll be out of the palace, and tells her to go to Astronomer Choi if she’s in danger.
Su knows enough to guess that she’s been used against So for the mission he has to go on, but he simply pats her on the head and tells her not to worry about it before he pulls her into a farewell embrace.
Despite knowing that only she and Chae-ryung attended to the king, and despite Chae-ryung’s immediately suspicious protestations that it most definitely wasn’t her, Su doesn’t suspect her in the slightest. There goes that.
But when Chae-ryung tells her that Eun’s entire family was killed, Su has a dramatic flashback to what So just told her about having to leave the palace to hunt down a traitor. She knows now that he was talking about Eun and panics.
She shuffles around listlessly afterward, only seeming to come back to reality when Soon-deok approaches her, disguised as a court lady. Since Eun trusts Su, they tell her that they only need to hide in her room until they can prepare safe passage out. Su promises to do what she can to help them.
Poor Eun still thinks that he can get help from his brothers, but it’s Su who puts a stop to that line of thinking when she reveals that So’s been sent to find him. She carefully sidesteps around telling him what’s happened to his family, and thankfully, he’s blissful in his ignorance. Soon-deok seems to know much more, but of course, she’d be mad to tell him now.
Evil minister Park Young-gyu is in attendance as Woo-hee tries to broker a deal with the new king for the benefit of the starving people of the Later Baekje region. King Jeongjong seems wary of her claims that she no longer has revenge on her mind, and proposes a different deal, one that would be more beneficial to him. (We don’t get to hear what it is.)
While at a tavern with So, Baek-ah makes it clear that he doesn’t trust or respect their new king, and worries whether So actually plans to capture Eun and take him back. “You don’t trust me either,” So says ruefully, causing Baek-ah to backpedal quickly. He’s managed to track down four boats that Eun and his wife could take, but he doesn’t know which of them they will take yet.
Woo-hee finds the two half-brothers and exchanges pleasant greetings with So, who knows that Su will be happy to see her. But it’s when Woo-hee says that she’ll return to the gyobang that Baek-ah sputters, and he doesn’t seem soothed when she tells him that she won’t be a gisaeng, but just a dance instructor. As they talk, the sinister Minister Park watches.
So confronts Wook over the very suspicious events surrounding their late brother’s death, explaining that the plot to poison him with mercury for two years was much too detailed for someone like Won to come up with. It could’ve only been Wook, and the fact that the king hasn’t killed him means that he’s working with Jeongjong.
Wook forces a smile as he claims that So has always been suspicious of him, and throws back So’s accusation that he killed their brother with one of his own: “How about you? Are you going to become the king’s dog and kill Eun?”
He claims that they’re both just struggling to survive, causing So to ask what changed him. “I did not poison the late king,” Wook finally says. It doesn’t seem like So believes him.
Since Su’s been called to tend to him, Jeongjong asks her what she would do if she were tortured for a confession about the mercury in the bathwater, which she denies having any part of. Su manages to win some points when she says that she would blame it on him, even if she died doing so.
Impressed, King Jeongjong interestingly notes that she’s the same as she used to be when she was younger (interesting because no one seems to mention that the actual Su had a past), and assures her that he won’t get rid of the only leverage he has over his brothers.
With that in mind, Su asks him to divulge who the real culprit was just to sate her curiosity—she won’t be able to tell anyone anyway, since all Jeongjong would have to do is accuse her of killing the king to make her disappear.
Before he can answer, Wook’s entrance is announced, and Jeongjong smiles wickedly as he says that Wook arrived right on time. Su just got her answer, and she can’t control her expression as she turns to look at Wook. Jeongjong just fans the flames by telling Wook that Su is simply dying to know who poisoned the king, and gets a kick out of Wook falsely claiming that the king died of an illness.
Once they’re outside, Su seems to already know the answer when she asks Wook whether he had any hand in the poisoning. It seems like she’s testing to see whether he’d lie to her directly, but the scene abruptly cuts to Queen Sinjeong tearing into Wook for his latest string of traitorous decisions.
“Is it because of Hae Su?” the queen asks. Much to her dismay, Wook answers, “Yes. I did think of her. It is because of her. Su said I tried to have everything for myself, and that that was wrong. But what of it? I tried to protect my family and my heart. What’s so wrong about that? Mother, you told me to live a proper life, and I lived my life that way. So… why am I still lonely?”
With tears in his eyes and on his cheeks, Wook claims that he’s already chosen the path he has to follow. He will get what he wants even if it means taking a different path than what he once intended: “I will no longer lose what I desire like a fool.”
Cut back to him and Su (oh, it was a flashback) as he flatly tells her, “I have done nothing wrong.”
So finds Su after hearing about her meeting with the king, though she assuages his fears by telling him that the king has no plans to kill her or kick her out of the palace. So knows it’s because the king plans to use her to manipulate him, but he’s just happy she’s safe for now.
In stark contrast to Wook, So comes clean to Su about being sent to hunt Eun down when she broaches the topic. Even though the king wants Eun dead, So says he’ll do whatever he can to help Eun escape, though that doesn’t jive with the premonition Su had about So cutting Eun down in cold blood.
So wonders whether he can keep trusting Astronomer Choi, since he didn’t even know that Yo would become king. Choi admits as much, but claims that Yo was born with the star of a traitor, so there must have been some deviation along the way that caused him to change course and become king. They’re not going to try and blame this on Su, are they?
Wook keeps repeating the words of warning Su once gave him about So, since he now feels like her prophecy is coming true—everything is becoming So’s, and Wook can’t stop him. “What should I do?” he wonders.
Despite Soon-deok’s best(?) efforts to blend in as a court lady, Jung is able to recognize her by her quick reflexes. Luckily, he’s Team Eun, and joins in on their plans to get Eun and his wife safely out of the palace. Since all the ways out are closed, Su remembers the secret tunnel beneath the palace.
Soon-deok wants to see her father before she leaves, but Su doesn’t think that’s a good idea—it’d put her too close to So. Soon-deok asks why Su doesn’t trust So considering the relationship they have, seeming to trust So more than Su does.
Her words, along with King Taejo’s “Do not get so hung up on the future that you lose what you have now” advice causes Su to admit that Soon-deok is right about trusting So. She volunteers to fetch Astronomer Choi herself, which she was reluctant to do before because of his ties to So, and ends up leaving him a note when he isn’t in his tower. That’s safe.
Jung and Soon-deok work together to clear the rocks blocking the secret tunnel, and he seems mildly discomfited by her constantly brushing her sweat-soaked hair away. He gives her a hairpin of Su’s to hold her hair back, causing her to wonder if the pin belongs to the woman he loves.
He smiles as he admits that the hairpin’s owner risked her life for him, specifically remembering the time Su saved him from those thugs in the forest by waving a stick around. Admitting that he fell in love with her when he saw her sing, he now admits that he hopes that she’ll only sing for him one day. Aww.
Soon-deok can relate to him, having felt the same feelings once herself. She describes her childhood (as we see it in flashback), claiming that she was always different from the other girls because she didn’t like the same girly things. That’s when Eun Lite offered her a ring made of flowers, which she happily accepted.
In the present, Soon-deok tells Jung to have courage when it comes to the woman he loves. She’ll be cheering him on, but Jung gives himself his own cheer: “Fighting!” Cute.
Princess Yeonhwa pays a formal visit to the new King Jeongjong, deliberately showing off the ring he once gave her. Jeongjong laughs at the sight of it, and tells her that he’ll be sending her off to the Khitan to be married. “Congratulations on your marriage, Yeonhwa-ya.”
Yeonhwa can’t help but wonder why it is that everyone who sits on that throne tries to control her through marriage: “You must believe there is no better way to control a woman other than marriage. I’m disappointed in you.” But Jeongjong reminds her that her brother betrayed him, so he can’t very well accept her as his queen.
Now that the Jeongjong avenue is closed, Yeonhwa thinks about So, and how he already proclaimed to love someone else. Left with no other options, all she can do is cry.
Because Eun is suffering from cabin fever so badly, Soon-deok allows him one excursion to the baths, since those aren’t occupied at night. Eun tries to get some while he’s at it, but Soon-deok avoids his grasps for her clothes.
She’s wowed when Eun makes her a rabbit out of a towel, so he decides to make all sorts of things for them to play with, which includes two toy boats that they use to race against each other. When Eun wins (because she let him), he prepares to give her a smack on the inside of her wrist, only to notice that her wrist is already reddened from him doing that too much. Yikes. At least he refrains this time.
Soon-deok then gifts him with his favorite slingshot, which she managed to take with them despite all the chaos. Eun admits that he never wanted to be a prince, and Soon-deok says that they’ll be able to live out their dreams freely once they move to the island of Tamra.
Eun returns the favor by giving his wife an ornament to wear, though at first, she thinks he’s gotten it for Su. Embarrassed, he says that it was for her, and repeats the same words he’d said when he gave her the flower ring as children about “all pretty girls” liking such things.
Of course, Eun is quick to say that she’s just okay and not necessarily pretty, but Soon-deok is so overcome with happiness that she kisses him. Then, she suddenly grows paranoid that kissing could make her pregnant, causing Eun to maturely note that they should’ve lived happily like this from the very beginning. But now, it’s business time.
Yeonhwa comes to the baths looking for Su the next day, and like Chae-ryung, she takes notice of all the homemade toys suddenly lying about. She orders Su to leave So immediately, and claims that she can get Su married out to a decent family.
Su says that the reason she wants to marry So (and not just into any good family) is because he makes her feel like she’s worth something, adding that she has no reason to leave him as long as he stays true to her.
“Now I know why I’ve always hated you,” Yeonhwa grits out. “Feelings and marriage are just silly games to you. It isn’t life and death for you like it is for me.” After promising to make Su pay for her refusal to bend to her wishes, Yeonhwa storms off.
Wook advises King Jeongjong to get rid of So as soon as possible, but even the king has enough sense to know that it’s too soon for him to act without arousing suspicion. In that case, Wook claims his only chance is to drive a wedge between So’s two biggest allies: General Park and Astronomer Choi.
Yeonhwa barges in unannounced and intent on making a deal: If they like what she has to say, then she doesn’t have to be married off. It’s only revealed in a scene with her and So that Yeonhwa revealed Eun’s hiding place, having recognized the towel-animals in the Damiwon bath as his doing.
Su sees Eun and Soon-deok to the secret entrance of the cave and tells them that Jung will be waiting for them on the other side. Soon-deok thanks her, and Eun says he’ll see her when he returns, which seem like some famous last words if there ever were any.
Before they can enter the tunnel, Jung comes rushing out to tell them to run—there are guards everywhere. He’ll hold them off for as long as he can.
Su tries to find another escape route, but they’re surrounded by the sounds of swords and screams. Soon-deok tells Su to take Eun, assuring him that they won’t dare to kill her, a general’s daughter. I don’t think she honestly believes it, but she wants Eun to so that he can escape.
Despite Su’s best efforts to drag him away, Eun refuses to leave his wife. “What can I do?” he sighs. “I am all she has.”
And then, he pulls himself from Su’s grasp. She can only look after him with tears in her eyes.
COMMENTS
Huzzah, Su did something! It’s amazing what a difference a little proactivity makes, since I suddenly found myself invested in her story this episode. And all it took was for her to have things she wanted to accomplish! How hard was that?
But in all seriousness, it really did feel like she was wandering around without goals or anything she necessarily wanted, which made it intensely difficult for me to get on board with pretty much anything she was doing. And on a much larger scale, I still don’t know what she wants out of her time here in Goryeo, and found it somewhat confusing that she suddenly reverted back to fearing So based on her still unexplained premonition. And then she reverted back to not fearing him based on other people’s advice, which was a bit disappointing—I would’ve liked for her own feelings about So to dictate how she felt about him, rather than other people having to remind her that she should trust him based off her feelings.
On a smaller episodic scale though, I was just happy that I could finally follow her, though I’m wary of trusting the show to keep delivering on the Su front after they let us down following that epic Court Lady Oh episode. Still, we’re at that stage in the game where we have to take what we can get, so I’ll take Su finally thinking for herself and even (gasp) defending herself. Against a king, no less! And I could completely buy that she’d do whatever she could to save Eun because he was her first friend in Goryeo, so giving her that common goal with both Eun and Jung went such a long way toward making her more relatable to us.
Even without Su’s premonition, dramas have taught us that hope is bad, and too much of it will kill you. So when we started spending a disproportionate amount of time with Eun and Soon-deok while they planned their escape, we pretty much knew that they were doomed. The show only cemented that fact by suddenly giving tons of screen time to the couple, which for once, was actually bearable. Most of that credit belongs to Soon-deok, who’s simply way too good for Eun—and the tragedy is that he didn’t realize what a saint of a wife he had until it was too late.
And though Jung’s been pretty low on the princely totem pole up until now, his role’s been increasing these past few weeks, and I actually like where we’ve ended up with him. His one-sided crush on Su is likely going to bite him and us in the behind later, but the show was smart to use its one remaining and uncommitted prince (Baek-ah’s sort of been decommissioned with whatever it is Woo-hee’s still around for) to help move the plot along. Even though everyone’s pretty much had a crush on Su by now, I really felt for Jung and his innocent, pure love for our heroine in ways that I never felt for Eun when he was in the throes of his one-sided love. Maybe it’s easier because we know what’ll happen to Eun even if I’m dreading whatever Su-related reasons the show might cook up to justify it, but not knowing what’ll happen to Jung is much more frightening.
At least Yo is making for a more entertaining king than his predecessor, though I couldn’t be more disinterested with the political machinations in this show. It feels like they’re checking the boxes for the basic requirements needed to make a fight for the throne seem appealing, but the story’s been so erratic when it comes to the succession of kings that it’s hard to really drum up interest when everyone on the throne or hovering directly around it is terrible. Yes, that means you too, Wook.
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- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 10
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Tags: featured, Hong Jong-hyun, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
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51 Lee
October 11, 2016 at 7:50 PM
History will not change with or without Soo's intervention. Without her serving as a catalyst, the kings who were supposed to become kings would have ascended to the throne nonetheless. Fifteen episodes in and I still don't get what she's in Goryeo for?
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YY
October 11, 2016 at 10:40 PM
Her role is to humanise King Gwanjong; to know the man behind the myth: in history, he was the legendary monster who butchered people who stood in his way. This drama gives us insight, through Hae Su's interactions with Wang So, into what drove him to do what he did, to understand his motives, if not to condone them.
Ultimately, it's the theme of the kingdom being bigger than the individual, and that a single person's needs and dreams and desires have to be sacrificed for the greater good; the disparity between one's romantic dreams and the harshness of stark reality is wonderfully underlined in that conversation between Su's romanticism and glorification of love in her refusal to leave So as long as he loves her, and Yeon Hwa's cynicism as she scoffs at those feelings:
"Now I know why I've always hated you. Feelings and marriage are just silly games to you. It isn’t life and death for you like it is for me.”
Powerful lines that ring with such exasperation and truth I couldn't help but applaud Yeon Hwa.
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Gracery
October 12, 2016 at 7:03 AM
This
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shelly
October 12, 2016 at 1:15 AM
ji mong counts the kings and yo isn't supposed to be one - soo did change the original history. i think it's in this ep...
and soo was always clueless...
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joy
October 12, 2016 at 1:16 AM
She did change the history, started with humanizing So enough to not kill Yo. See how Jimong wondered why Yo could become a king? That's one change of history for sure.
Eun and his wife might still be killed by So, but do you see the difference between Soo's premonition and the reality? So was laughing in her premonition when he slaughtered Eun, but in the reality, from the preview, he was filled with horror and grief instead. I'd say that Soo's existence had changed the circumstance of Eun's killing. That So in Soo's premonition killed Eun willingly, probably to secure his throne, hence he was laughing. But this So in reality, killed Eun under Yo's pressure. This difference in the motive behind the killing is what's important, not the killing itself.
The previous So would take the throne by killing his brothers. The present So, with Soo's influence, will take the throne because he wants to end the brothers' killing spree. See the difference now?
Soo is here to change the history, to shape Gwangjong into the king we know in the present history. The king who actually did many good things for his people and killed only the ones who revolted and threatened the nation, not the horrible king who killed all of his brothers like the history that Go Hajin knew.
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 8:31 AM
@joy.....yes,yes,yes...thank you for bringing this up, you nailed it!This changes everything....even if Eun is killed Soo will realize her premonitions aren't accurate anymore, So is not a killing machine thirsting for power....it's like the Astrologer pointed out, there's a variable (It's Soo) and it's changing the outcome...and Soo is about to realize that....which means Beanies our ending is now a Russian roulette now.....Soo is oficially changing the future.....
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Kiara
October 13, 2016 at 4:48 AM
She can't change history period. Who the heck is she to change centuries of records that has already been written. That's why the ascension order will remain the same.
Rouxi couldn't change a thing in the original because she can't.
What you see here is fabricated to fit the novel and some a the writer's own interpretation. That was not written in the history books.
The one who is changing the history here is the writer.
Wang-so was raised in the palace. He got all the training there to become the king that we know from the history. The fact that Yeon Hwa was his only queen should tell you that their relationship is not like what it's shown in this drama.
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joy
October 14, 2016 at 6:15 AM
They got that creative license appearing at the beginning of literally every single episode for reason. They never declare that this drama will have to follow through the real history of Goryeo.
Beside that, it's clear on eps 15 that Jimong said the history had changed, that alone should explain enough that the writer never intends to follow exactly the real history to begin with.
C-BBJX doesn't have Jimong and it sticks to the real history. K-BBJX is more creative and you can't really say at this point how far they're going to do with that creative license.
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Kiara
October 15, 2016 at 5:36 AM
I am sure everyone that is watching this show knows that this is not a historical document drama.
What is this history that Hae-soo is changing? Is it the vague history from Middle School or does the show has it's own history for her to change?
The history that I'm talking about is what we know today. The one that was compiled by King Sejong and his scholars. How is she going to change that when it's already being taught in schools?
pogo
October 15, 2016 at 9:06 AM
@Kiara - I think what @joy means to say is that the "history" of Go Ha-jin's modern era doesn't seem to be quite the same as ours, given certain major discrepancies pointed out (like apparently Gwangjong as we know him was never a brother-killer etc)....so it's possible that Su going back in time influences certain people (namely So) so that history in some way will be closer to what we know now (i.e. Gwangjong not being the bloodthirsty brother-killer Su knows). Just a guess.
Like you said, I think the show does have its own history for her to change, and that's where the creative licence has really been taken with history, hence we get the warning. I don't think it's a big deal really, I mean Moonlight Drawn By Clouds is based on a recorded historical figure too and we have him falling in love with an actually female eunuch and not apparently marrying the wife he had a son by....it's just AU history of a sort.
Kiara
October 17, 2016 at 6:07 AM
@pogo
I'm sorry but it does not make any sense. The show would have to explain a lot here if that's the case.
We can't depend on her memory of the history because it's pretty vague. She could be misinterpreting it or she got it totally wrong.
The end result does not match today's history at all if she was suppose to change anything.
The changes here is more to do with the Chinese novel. If she is trying to change the Chinese version into the Korean version of the history than that would make more sense.
pogo
October 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM
@Kiara - I honestly think the drama-verse having a history that is not quite the one we know (hence the disclaimer about creative licence with history at the start of each episode - which I initially thought was just about the fact of Su's time travelling) is the only way to make sense of all the differences between Su's history and ours.
Su's memory of history lessons may be vague but there's nothing to suggest that what she remembers about it (and not just sees visions of) is factually wrong as per the knowledge of her modern world. I'm not familiar with the Chinese novel so it's quite likely that the writer is trying to accomplish two things at once by incorporating the brother-killing (as far as I know #4 was quite ruthless to his brothers) as well as the hint that Su's influence is changing So and changing history slightly along the way.
pogo
October 17, 2016 at 9:29 AM
Also, I really don't see the point of bringing up details of the actual history - as long as the broad-strokes major events (like the fact that Taejo was king, succeeded by Mu, and then eventually So) remain the same, I don't see the problem with 'filling in the gaps' with some details that might not line up exactly with the facts that we know or infer, especially if the writer is trying to fit the Chinese novel to Goryeo or vice versa.
It's the same with Moonlight, or Splish Splash Love (which outright has a time traveller influencing the development of hangul) or most fusion sageuks dealing with historical figures.
Heck BBJX/SHR isn't even the first drama to rewrite history starring an iconic ruler motivated by love. Over 15 years ago, there was a movie in my country that was all about how the emperor responsible for the architecture that ended up on our coins and stamps (so pretty famous, probably even more than Wang So/Gwangjong in Korea), was really just a woobie motivated by love, and the loss of that love led him to give up war and embrace Buddhism. Basically, something not happening in history and happening in a story based on that history, isn't something I take issue with.
Kiara
October 17, 2016 at 4:55 PM
@pogo
That's exactly why I thought that it doesn't make sense. She is changing the history that we don't even know? Go Ha-jin is from the 21st century. How many version of Goryeo history is taught in school? If the drama is making up their own version of the history for her to change then I think this is terribly complicated for a drama that is based more on the Chinese novel.
This sounds like the show has it's own fake history and the heroine is changing that fake history and the end result is still fake. Forgive me for being so confused here.
I've been watching sageuks for a very long time and believe me I know about creative license. Let's not even talk about Moonlight because that show knows what it's changing.
TourmalineMillie
October 14, 2016 at 7:12 AM
There could be lots of reason why the historical Wang So only had Daemok as his queen and not all of them overrule the writer's interpretation of history.
Because while it's certainly possible that Wang So's relationship with Yeonhwa was more of a love match than this drama makes their relationship appear, the fact that Queen Daemok opposed his policies so much, siding with her maternal Hwangbo clan also makes it possible that it wasn't a love match at all.
Historical Wang So could have seen what happened when you had too many children with different mothers and determined to not make the same mistake.
Also, his having 5 children with her could be explained as his trying to make a spare heir. Historical Wang So appears to not have been satisfied with his first son/the CP (for good reason. He ended up undoing a lot of the good things Wang So had done) and accounts say he'd have killed the son had he had another son. His second son died and his remaining children were all girls, which could be interpreted as his attempts to make another son.
In the end, what I'm trying to say is that, the writer's interpretation of Wang So and Yeonhwa's relationship is more that possible because there are enough facts to back up such a claim. The facts are as open to the writer's interpretation as they are to everyone else.
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Jamie Opso
October 14, 2016 at 9:28 AM
@TourmalineMillie
"There could be lots of reason why the historical Wang So only had Daemok as his queen and not all of them overrule the writer’s interpretation of history."
Thanks so much for laying out some possible interpretations of historical record. Those were all great points you made. Writers may choose to follow the bare-bones history, while interpreting creatively to flesh out a story.
Kiara
October 15, 2016 at 7:22 AM
Now that's very reasonable thank you! I don't think Yeon Hwa and Wang So's reunion was based on love. This is Goryeo, love was not the main reason why these people were getting married for in those days. I'm not even rooting for them to have that kind of relationship in this show.
Maybe they learnt to love each other later but we can only speculate.
Taejo needed those clans in order for his earlier expeditions and the revolution to be successful.
If it wasn't for his sworn brothers and their armies, his wives' clans and their loyalty, Goryeo wouldn't exist.
Eventually they got too powerful and he died before he implemented a plan to keep them in control.
Wang So was determined to strengthen the monarch's power. The merit subjects and their clans were getting too powerful which led to Wang Gyu's rebellion.
I think Yeon Hwa was the perfect supporter for him since she was already in the family. If he was to undo their power then he needs to cut ties with them.
He moved the capital out Songak and leave all the local Lord's influence behind and then he started his aggressive reforms from there.
Yeon Hwa is portrayed realistically and that's why I love rooting for her. She made it clear that she is not in this for silly romance, she wants to survive and have power so she won't be treated like her mother.
Kiara
October 17, 2016 at 5:47 AM
I understand why Yeon Hwa was taking her clans side. That's exactly why she wanted the queen's position so she can protect them and their interest.
52 wackycashew
October 11, 2016 at 7:54 PM
Thanks for the recap, Heads!
Su actively trying to do something does make a difference. Like you said, I totally believe she'd put her life on the line for Eun. And I love seeing Jung working together with them. His increasing presence in the plot also makes things more interesting since he's bound to shake things up for his brothers. You can see him originally being the happy maknae who likes his mom and hyung. But now that he's matured and see his mom and hyung for who they really are, he maintains his distance and chooses to align himself with good people. Not to mention, Su has risked her life for him twice. So, the way he feels about her is totally natural.
I guess the Eun-SD sweet scenes are supposed to be a farewell to this couple before their likely demise. *sigh*
I like So's honesty and when confronted by Su, he doesn't beat around the bush or make up excuses. He just tells it as is. Definitely a stark contrast to Wook's ways. I know Su is weary of what's to come due to her premonitions. But I also thought she'd have enough faith in So without SD having to point it out that she should believe in the person she likes.
I knew YH immediately recognized those towels. She's Eun's sister after all. The fact that she'd use this against Su and to put Eun in danger just really upsets me. Then again, when is she not selfish and self-centered?
When Yo told his mom to stay out of political affairs, I wonder if the slightest thought ever entered her mind that's she's raised a monster...
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 8:54 PM
I'm really nervous about Jung - he has a good heart, and we know he'd never support the kind of naked ambition Yo and his mother do (which actually makes me fear for his life now that Yo is king and wants his mother to stay out of politics - all the more reason for the beloved puppy who is now a skilled military leader, to die). We've even seen that he isn't naturally as hostile to So as his mother and Yo.
But he also (somewhat unfairly) distrusts So, has looked up to Wook for years, and is in love with Su despite knowing her history with Wook. And at the same time, he has no idea that Wook is responsible for the mercury poisoning plot. It's all a huge powder keg of things waiting to happen.
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wackycashew
October 12, 2016 at 4:32 PM
Right... We all know Yo is capable of anything, even if it means getting rid of his full-blood biological brothers. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Jung turns out to thwart his plans that he would not hesitate one sec to take Jung down. The only reason he's even tolerating Wook is probably because he thinks Wook is still useful. You can see he was ready to marry off YH with no second thoughts. Jung is good-hearted and he never really had any hatred toward So, unlike Yo and Mom. The military part might come into play later if Jung holds certain military power that Yo might feel threatened by.
I would say towards So and Wook, Jung might be somewhat inconsistent or indecisive, given what he knows and doesn't know? Like he might distrust So because he's sorta been brainwashed by Yo and Mom, but he's not completely hateful of So, and his own uprightness makes it hard for him to side with Yo and Mom when they wanted to take Moo down. With Wook, Jung was closer to him and looked up to him after separating himself from Yo. But I think he also witnessed Wook walking away from Su during that kneeling in the rain scene. And when he confronted Wook about his feelings for Su, Wook was still unable to do anything for her. So, I think Jung doesn't necessarily trust Wook completely either, and maybe he thinks all is fair in love as long as Su isn't married yet. After all, he must have observed that Su-So have a special relationship? I do hope Jung sees Wook's true nature sooner than later.
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 8:56 PM
And count me in as another one who loves how straightforward So is with Su (and until just one episode ago, I would have said the same about the level of trust she places in him). But then the @$@*%@* Gwangjong-vision had to come and derail that. Seriously, I thought we were done with that when Su herself thought she was being unfair!
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wackycashew
October 12, 2016 at 4:34 PM
Those visions definitely don't help... But like you, I also thought she had gotten over that already and told herself not to think about things that haven't happened yet.
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53 kyline23
October 11, 2016 at 7:58 PM
Oh this episode is giving me headaches. :(
On one note i must compliment Su for standing up against Yo and YH, but at the same time disappointed for not fully trusting So.
C'mon Su, after everything, after seeing his innocent and pure heart? Why cant you give your full trust to the man who has been so selfless and loving. What are your reservations? Can't you analyze that your premonitions could be wrong. Why are you wavering. On the past episode you trust him and now you're back to fearing that So might really kill Eun and SD.
same with all girls here, who are ashamed of knowing Su represents the 21st century girl like stupid ones, seriously you complicate things more for So.
Well, despite my frustrations on Su, im loving every bit of my prince So. hugs and kisses to you. cant wait for the next ep.
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54 Gehrel
October 11, 2016 at 8:05 PM
Oh, Hae Su. You can't catch a break, can you? Goryeo just don't like you. Sure, you get several friendships, mother-figures and a man that worships you. But Goryeo is determined to heap piles of shit on to you. So far, you're sinking in the pile of horse manure that keeps increasing.
Meanwhile Yeon-hwa, keep hanging on and do what you need to do to survive. You have my unflinching support.
At this point in the drama, I just really wish to see head rolls, blood shed and see through that So and Yeon-hwa sit up on that throne. Honestly, the biggest collateral damage inflicted on this drama is not on the Goryeo folk, but Hae Su.
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55 banini
October 11, 2016 at 8:24 PM
Oh my! This episode endeared Eun and Seon Deok to me now, just when... you know! I cried in the last scene where Eun called her his person :-( (I watched the subbed international version)
I wish Su really puts into heart what SD said. Trust the person you love :-)
Thanks HeadsNo2!
Now off to read....
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 8:48 PM
What Eun told Su before he pulled away to go after his wife was actually a callback to one of their earliest conversations (the one where she'd given him the thumbs up), and it nearly killed me - he says "now I'm her jjang".
Damn if Eun hasn't annoyed the hell out of me before Soon-deok, but owwww, it hurt to hear that.
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 9:09 PM
as much as i cringe at baekhyun's acting, that last scene broke me T_T
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JiaYou
October 12, 2016 at 4:52 AM
I was so touched at the "I'm her jjang now" :(
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Ren
October 11, 2016 at 9:12 PM
Eun! I'm so sorry I ever doubted you. I thought Seon Deok was going to be another woman on the show who nobly sacrifices herself to protect what she loves, but Eun our ultimate man child decides to stand with her instead. *cries*
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chocopieb
October 12, 2016 at 4:58 AM
to think that he's the only one so far who actually braved his way to protect his dearest despite having so much more other way outs to save himself. i keep seeing clips of them on twitter today and my heart breaks another piece at every sight T__T
or.. rather than protect, simply to be with her...
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IvoryLight
October 12, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Right? I'd say it's on and even exceeding the level of Wang So when he went to shelter HS from the rain..at least they were only in danger of pneumonia and the King's punishment then, and not ACTUAL death.
I cry because this is the first time we have evidence that Eun and So are actually blood related-apart from that big ol crush on HS...
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kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 9:55 PM
I cried so much for them this episode, and then I wound up watching the preview for this ep again and then like the shot of Eun crying out Soon-deok's name BROKE ME SO BADLY WEEPS
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56 loveblossom
October 11, 2016 at 8:46 PM
UGH. I was so uneasy when I watched this episode.... dreading the sad end result and trying to prepare for it.
The previous EP's preview showed a big scene, BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN WTF (yet). -______- I wish the previews were done better, instead of just revealing too much and trying to lure me to watch the next episode by showing crucial moments.
I was getting a little choked up near the end for Soon Deok. She was really endearing. But then the episode ended like this.... I was frustrated.
I'm glad that So told Su the truth about Eun being the target. I was worried they were going to start withholding information from each other in order to protect each other, etc.
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57 fangirlingmj
October 11, 2016 at 8:49 PM
Worst parts I am expecting to happen…
1. SO FINDING OUT THE REASON BEHIND WOOK’S CHANGE OF CHARACTER.
In the C-version, the 4th prince found out that the reason why the 8th prince acted against him was because of the warning of Ruoxi about being careful of him (4th). Actually, in the C-version, it was the 8th prince's wife who told the 4th about it. In the K-version, the one who could only do that is no other than Yeon Hwa. She’s the only one who knew Soo warned Wook about So.
AFTER THE RAIN CEREMONY:
YH: So has made it rain. Now he will receive the King’s trust.
WW: Yes, he will.
YH: If the CP wasn’t going to be the master of the ritual, you should have been the one standing there. It was a good opportunity.
WW: It was a seat that was given to So. It was necessary for So to be in that seat. I should not be greedy for something like that.
YH: Once you receive the favor of the king, it is easy to get other ideas in your head. I am only saying that we have another person to be wary of in the palace.
WW: Hae Soo said So would be different too. Are you saying that as well?
YH: Hae Soo warned you to be careful of our 4th brother? Why?
WW: The person who helped So take off his mask was Hae Soo. She is afraid something will happen because of that.
2. SO FINDING OUT ABOUT WOOKSOO’s past.
In the C-version, it was the 8th himself who disclosed about his past romance with Rouxi.
So if they are going to follow the original one, it’ll be Wook. But I am not closing the door for Jung (he knows about it too) and Yeoh Hwa.
When Hae Soo and So was having the conversation if front of the throne, she said, “The king told me to live my life rationally and according to reason. That is why I’m siding with the crown prince BUT if the 8th prince were to get injured, I would be scarred forever.”
And why do I have this strong feeling that Hae Soo will have the same fate as Lady Oh?
I believe she'll get pregnant (from the preview for ep 16 maybe something will happen between So and Soo) and will have a miscarriage (same with the C-version). This will deteriorate her health (she's already having chest pain when she was talking with King Taejo) add up the mental stress of seeing the people closed to her dying and the despair of being brokenhearted again. So in the end, she’ll die and go back to 21st century.
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cherryarrow
October 11, 2016 at 9:10 PM
*ugly sobbing*
though i think there will be a bed scene next week from he previews!!!
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 10:02 PM
Don't be fooled, I thought Eun was going to die this week too but I guess they put that off to next episode? I don't want to spend time gnashing my teeth if we're denied the bed scene!
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 10:11 PM
as long as there will be a bed scene, i'm ok lol
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YY
October 12, 2016 at 2:02 AM
The Bed Scene
So: I love you.
Su: I love you.
Wook: I love you.
So and Su: Wook?????!!!!
Wook: I hid under the bed. Any bed scene will be over my dead body. Arghhhhhh -
Wook dies. Su removes her hairpin from the side of his neck.
So: Now where were we?
Su: I love you.
So: I love you.
MWAH.
IvoryLight
October 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM
@YY hahahahaha if it doesn't happen this way I will riot.
And if it doesn't happen at ALL I will probably have to invest in a new laptop because I will destroy my screen.
I'm pretty sure they won't go anywhere NEAR hbo GOT style lol this is a Kdrama after all but they better give me some SERIOUS making out. Bonus points if they are tugging at each other's clothes, because rawr. *fans self*
Anyway. A great distraction from the upcoming tragedies is to chant "bed scene, bed scene, bed scene" under your breath. Try it, it works, and if not, it's great for driving away people near you so you get a whole table to yourself :D
pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 8:19 AM
+100 = what IvoryLight said. RAWR.
I would be okay with serious make out session followed by morning after shot with Hae Su cleaning up the room when Wang So wakes up from under the covers with a sleepy smile on his face.
I would be TOTALLY okay with that.
*BIG GRIN*
*blush*
IvoryLight
October 12, 2016 at 8:31 AM
@PG...yaaaaaaaas exactly, 100% approved.
Every time Wang So smiles ovaries explode somewhere, but if its one of his sexy smirks (you know the ones, he was throwing them out left right and center at the lake scene or whenever he does that waist grab and-ahem) AFTER a sexy night??!
The world is not prepared.
BUT I AM!!
Dramagods let this be so. It's the least you can do after making us watch the raw version, the SBS version and then the international version of this show!!!
Del
October 11, 2016 at 11:54 PM
I am hoping they will come up with a totally new/fresh ending, totally unlike the ending of either the novel or the C-drama.
And gosh, I am a sucker for sad ending. I don't know why but somehow sad ending dramas always left a strong prints in my heart and mind.
If she is to share the same fate with Lady Oh, could be that Haesoo would become Gwangjong's tea lady until finally, she gave up on him and wanting him to sentence her for a idk what punishment so that she could finally free herself and leave Goryeo's for good. And So would fulfill her wish but same as his father, broken-hearted by it. The end.
I am one of the minor who dislike any bed scenes by any actors, especially my fave actors. That is my main reason for despising HK actor Daniel Wu because he literally carry a mattress onto every of his movies. I prefer for them to just leave it to the viewers' imagination. I am conservative, I guess.
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 8:45 AM
@YY,@Ivory Light,@Del, PineappleGongzhu,... LOL.......You are hilarious.....@Dell , "I am hoping they will come up with a totally new/fresh ending, totally unlike the ending of either the novel or the C-drama."....Me too, this story deviates enough that anything short of a fresh and new ending is needed, sticking to a rehash of the same ending would add nothing to making this an original take on the classic...please writer Nim surprise us with a new ending....
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 9:34 AM
@Del, ha! I'm actually a fellow conservative!
In fact, the reason I fell in love with Kdramas is that I'm so sick of western dramas that seem to revolve around (1) sex and (2) violence (e.g. Game of Thrones)
I love that we generally only get a chaste kiss.
I guess what I mean by a bedroom scene is just the implication of them consummating their relationship. I don't actually want to see a bedroom tussle.
But, I fully understand and respect your opinion about wanting to leave a bedroom scene out of it.
I'm also hoping for a fresh and interesting ending. I hope it is satisfying rather than tacked on fan-service.
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58 Miumiu
October 11, 2016 at 8:51 PM
There was so little of So in this episode I was disappointed. Call me shallow but I'm only watching this because of LJK
Here is my little ode to him:
Never thought I'd watch a saeguk
Just not my cup of tea
But now I'm obsessed with ML
And I want more of Lee Jun Ki.
The story has lots of holes
And the edits drive me crazy
But I still keep on watching
Just want more of Lee Jun Ki
I never watch a sad ending
Real life has enough tragedy
I'm still watching MLSH
Coz I want more of Lee Jun Ki
Even when he was wearing a mask
That man can really act - can't he?
Scenes when he only uses his eyes to express
Oh I want more of Lee Jun Ki!
Oh PD-nim can we have more ?
An episode where So is all we see
I'm sure I'm not the only one
Who wants more of Lee Jun Ki :)
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 8:58 PM
*APPLAUSE*
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 12:03 AM
Thank you @pogo :)
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Del
October 11, 2016 at 11:47 PM
Clap! Clap! Clap!
That was "jjang".
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 12:04 AM
Kamsa hamnida @del
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justsaying
October 12, 2016 at 12:50 AM
'I never watch a sad ending
Real life has enough tragedy
I’m still watching MLSH
Coz I want more of Lee Jun Ki'
So so so true...
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 10:43 AM
Isn't it @justsaying ? Who wants to watch something that makes you sad when you have enough of that in real life ? That's why we need Lee Jun Ki .. stress buster :)
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maryann
October 12, 2016 at 5:42 AM
Slow clap and a standing ovation!
I'm sure this will end up in this week's beans of wisdom.
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 10:44 AM
Thank you. I do wish we have an episode of just LJK tho...
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 9:35 AM
*standing ovation*
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 10:45 AM
@pineapplegongzhu - I always look forward to you r comments on ML. Lots of love
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YY
October 12, 2016 at 9:20 PM
Awesome ode, makes me want to chant like a robot "I want more of LJK".
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Miumiu
October 13, 2016 at 5:55 AM
Ha ha. :)
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Sris
October 12, 2016 at 11:28 PM
a round of applause for u!!!!!!agree fully with following lines
Never thought I’d watch a saeguk
Just not my cup of tea
But now I’m obsessed with ML
And I want more of Lee Jun Ki.
The story has lots of holes
And the edits drive me crazy
But I still keep on watching
Just want more of Lee Jun Ki
I never watch a sad ending
Real life has enough tragedy
I’m still watching MLSH
Coz I want more of Lee Jun Ki
i have never watched a saguek and dont like to watch sad and tragic dramas. But i am still watching. something is wrong with me
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Miumiu
October 13, 2016 at 5:53 AM
@sris nothing is wrong with you . It's the LJK effect :)
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Sris
October 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM
yeah LJG effect is a drug!!!!!!!:p
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59 Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 8:56 PM
side note, Soo's speech is becoming more "sageuk" like now, she called King Moo "orabeoni" instead of oppa. I would love to see her to take on the full sageuk speech
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LYF
October 12, 2016 at 6:39 PM
I also really wanna see her speak to So in banmal!! I know in public she can't do that cause he's a prince and she's a court lady but when it's just the both of them.....? Please show!
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Sris
October 12, 2016 at 11:29 PM
I would love that. and can she call him "oppa"
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60 loveblossom
October 11, 2016 at 8:59 PM
During Ji Mong and So's conversation about how Yo becoming king was even a surprise to Ji Mong and that something has changed, I immediately thought of Su as the reason. I wish it wasn't her. Maybe So was suppose to be the king according to her visions. But their growing love for each other caused him to not be greedy and cold-blooded for the throne. Changed his motivations in life.
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 9:04 PM
oh wow good point. i kind of thought of Soo when Jimong said that but i didn't think too much of it. but you're right, it could totally be because So fell in love and he no longer wants power, and all he wants to be with Soo and grow old. ; _ ;
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61 Kang Maru
October 11, 2016 at 9:12 PM
1) Ji Mong flashback was so precious at the same time is heartbreaking. The friendship/brotherhood of Mu,Ji Mong and So was so special. I cried a little because of that.
2) Wook's conversation between his mom and sis was sad. I feel bad for him , he clearly states that Hae Soo was the only reason to keep him happy and going from life and responsibilities as the man of the house.
3) Eun and Seon Deok are cute. *Why the heck did the writers include those cute scenes at the last moments of their lives, so unfair huhu". We get to see why Seon Deok was inlove with Eun.
4) I think Hae Soo's difficulty in breathing (while talking to chae ryung) can be major factor of a sickness?!? That can lead to her passing, idk just a theory haha.
5) Jung is adorably in love with Hae Soo. Is this another ship to sail~~
6) Does So know that Wook was Hae Soo's first love in goryeo. I think not, because he just states that Wook is only a relative of hae soo that's why he cares for her.
P.S. YO IS BEGINNING TO HAVE THE RED DEATH EYELINER IN HIS EYES LIKE MU DOES EVERY RULING KING OF GORYEO WILL HAVE TO GET THOSE?!?! HAHA
P.P.S. WOOK IS GETTING YO'S EYELINER LOOK ALSO THE DARK SHADE OF CLOTHES. DIS HE STOLE YO'S WARDROBE TOO? HAHAHA
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Ren
October 12, 2016 at 1:20 AM
Here's what it ultimately comes down to with Wook; he has an innate unbridled desire for the throne. That's it. It's almost like it's part of his programming that he needs to secure the throne at all costs, no matter the sacrifice. However this ruthless ambition doesn't sit well with Wook who was raised to be principled and upright. This is why Wook constantly projects; he's doing it for Su, he's doing it for his family but never is he scheming for himself.
Wook cannot accept his inherent thirst for power because it conflicts with how he was raised, how he sees himself and what he likes about himself. This inner turmoil is why he's miserable and lonely. But nature always prevails in the end and he'll cut down everyone to get to be King if that's what it takes, it's just how he was built.
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 8:49 AM
@Ren good analysis....
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62 carpetfibers
October 11, 2016 at 9:15 PM
As Moonlovers progresses, increasingly all I really know is that Kang Ha Neul plays the twisted, obsessive bad guy beautifully. Emphasis on the 'beautiful.'
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realiti
October 11, 2016 at 10:25 PM
YASS!! KHN is beautiful. The scene with his mother and sister where he asks where did things go wrong with Hae Su and how come even though he lived a proper life, why is he still lonely. That is the only scene of all of ML that almost - ALMOST - made me tear.
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63 Go HoHo
October 11, 2016 at 9:17 PM
JI MONG'S PREMONITIONS ABOUT YO BEING KING WAS WEIRD ACCORDING YO HIM. HE SAID THAT IT WAS NOT HIS FATE TO BE KING BUT A TRAITOR. HE SAID SOMETHING HAS CHANGE. FIRST COMES TO MY MIND WAS WOOK.
I guess Wook was not originally aiming for the throne if it weren't for HAESOO. Seems fishy...
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Yoyo
October 12, 2016 at 4:15 AM
Hae Soo was the unforseen variable.
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64 Mel
October 11, 2016 at 9:29 PM
Question: Why is Wook being forgiven by Yo? He betrayed him before, so why the sudden collaboration? Am I missing something?
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Mel
October 11, 2016 at 9:31 PM
Also I can see Yo's fake mustache beard thing hahaha
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 9:34 PM
Presumably because Wook, after two years in court being a mad king's right hand, now has enough support from powerful people that Yo can't get rid of him quite that easily.
Though that protection might not extend to his sister.
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vip
October 11, 2016 at 9:42 PM
I wonder that too. Cause I thought Wook will death first after Yo comes back.
Maybe Yo will used Wook first, after he settle everything, he will kill him.
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Mel
October 11, 2016 at 10:06 PM
Maybe...I'm just going to assume that Wook has a benefit for Yo right now.
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65 goodytwoshoes
October 11, 2016 at 9:34 PM
Forget history or what not. I just want to sit around a big table with fellow beanies and have a deep discussion on how we want Yo killed/dead.
I remember how I discussed the death of King Joffery in Game of Thrones, but his death was subtle. I want something stronger for Yo.
The part where Queen insanityrunsinmyveins told Yo to send So away. I was like yes, Yo listen to your mum this time. But what? You are having fun taming So??? Hahahahaha. Dude, you are few days away from waking the Monster (Wang So). Just keep it up
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 9:35 PM
I've heard BBJX had someone steamed alive at one point.
I vote for Yo to get that. And not as a beauty treatment!
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YP
October 11, 2016 at 9:54 PM
Man, that scene was gruesome. It was Yutan from BBJX who got steamed because she was a spy. I actually had to google it back then because I couldn't believe steaming people were a thing in ancient China.
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YY
October 12, 2016 at 9:22 PM
OMG. How do you guys expect me to eat my steamed meat dumplings now?
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goodytwoshoes
October 11, 2016 at 9:46 PM
.....and I am so scared of what will happen when So eventually knows about Wook and Hae So love. Arrrrrrrrgh!! With the bad blood going on btw the two princes. I'm not sure I want him to know.
Whenever Hae So is with Wang So I keep hoping she will say something or just chip it like, '....yeah, I loved Wook at a point in time, but whatever. so how's the ambassador job'.....
I'm on pins and needles here yo.
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kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 9:58 PM
I vote being struck by lightning because pain and charred corpse. Also because historical Yo got shocked into illness by lightning and thunder striking his palace hall, so it'd be cool to tie that in.
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 10:02 PM
shocked by lightning, are you for real? omg LOL
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 10:06 PM
No, lightning strikes are an actual thing! And most victims actually do survive, according to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_injuries
(seriously the things this drama and comments make me look up)
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 10:12 PM
oh i know they exist! i just ... didn't expect him to experience that... i mean, he's all uptight and arrogant, and he gets struck by a lightning lmao
kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 10:13 PM
For real yo. He was receiving this ambassador, and then lightning struck and thunder rolled, and he was so shocked by it that he fell very ill. Then historical Yo died the next year. So if they incorporate this they could use this as Yo being guilty over his killing of his brothers to usurp the throne etc. It'd be great!
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 10:19 PM
oh that's just hilarious.
pretty sure Yo will die some time next week. Oh and I hope episode 16 airs on Monday!!
kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 10:23 PM
@cherryarrow: It is sort of funny, I wonder why historical Yo was so afraid though. But yeah I think they'll kill him off by episode 17, because otherwise there's no time for So's reign. But yes I am out for blood regarding Eun and Soon-deok's death!!!!!! So Yo needs to die, stat.
Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 10:32 PM
@kumoiwa
I can't wait to see So as King! I also can't wait to see the look of Queen SMS's face when he does lol. But ugh can you imagine LJG acting out his crying scenes in that-scene-that-should-not-be-named?? Ugh I die.
kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 11:07 PM
@cherryarrow: She'd probably try to control him but I would LOVE to see So be like "you need to rest permanently now, mother" and send her off to a temple forever. Because revenge is sweet.
Nooooo omg noooo don't remind meeeee but I'm somehow also looking forward to it because I know Lee Joon-gi is going to kill it in that scene gosh.
Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 11:21 PM
@kumoiwa
Are you kidding? LJG kills it in all the scenes he does... esp crying scenes... *dead*
IvoryLight
October 12, 2016 at 7:25 AM
@goodytwoshoes oooh can I join? Can we have a part two where we talk about how we can get rid of Queen Seenmysanity lately too???!
I realized from the flashback-it's the night So was told he would become King, and we know that's the night he got his scar. Did you see how freaking precious and adorable baby Wang So was and she threatened his life??! Ugh. I hate her. Hate her, hate her!!!!
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 8:54 AM
@goodytwoshoes...I wish all beanies could share one big group hug to help us all get through the angst of the next couple of weeks....and thank you everyone for sharing your comments , I love to read them.
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66 vip
October 11, 2016 at 9:39 PM
I wonder if Soo still wearing Wook's bracelet after she accept So's love ?
Is there any scene that she broke the bracelet like in the 6min trailer ?
Cause I haven't saw that scene until now in international version.
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Napkiin
October 11, 2016 at 9:52 PM
dude i'm waiting for the that darn bracelet breaking soon since episode 13. where is it?? wook is suppose to break the bracelet once Soo breaks up with him and he still hasn't done it. Wth.
And no Soo isn't wearing his bracelet.
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LYF
October 12, 2016 at 1:02 AM
Has Soo returned the bracelet though?
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Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 11:25 AM
did she? when?
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LYF
October 12, 2016 at 6:48 PM
Haha according to my memory she hasn't (yet) either, hence the question :p
Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 6:53 PM
@LYF
Oh my bad! I read "has" as "hae"
fangirlmj
October 12, 2016 at 4:27 PM
What if it's So who's going to break it once he found out about the WookSoo's past? Idk, I just have that kind of feeling. Haha!
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Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 6:54 PM
doubt it... in the original it was 8th who broke it but who knows lol
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Maui
October 13, 2016 at 4:16 AM
The missing bracelet is also bothering me...did the scene happen and is now a missing scene ?, is it going to happen?...it should already have happened?, is there a missing episode somewhere?.....what's going on?....
67 altruysm
October 11, 2016 at 10:02 PM
The thing that hits me the most this episode is how from last episode, Su and So said they'd stop lying to each other (or at least tell each other that they don't want to talk about something - whatever) and So completely came clean in telling Su that he was searching for Eun. Even when he says he wants to help him escape before the King finds him, Su doesn't mention that she is hiding him.
Yeah I get it because of her premonition, but if these flash forward imaginations are going to prevent her from being completely all-in with So, then he deserves better at this point. Eventually something like this will escalate and all So will see is someone else who disregards him, which has kind of already happened with So/Su when he fulfilled the rain ceremony and Su had that scene flash. These scene flashes will be the end of Suo! Sou? What is their couple name?
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68 pineapplegongzhu
October 11, 2016 at 10:05 PM
Thanks for the recap, Heads2! \^o^/
CUTEST KID SCENES EVER! I just about died seeing little Wang-So, little Eun, and little Soon Deok!
Soon Deok & Jung’s battle buddy friendship = gold!
Favorite quotes:
“I’d rather be on the battlefield” - Little Soon Deok
“They say all pretty girls like it [flower rings].” - Eun/little Eun \^o^/
“We’re both struggling to survive. That is the fate of a prince who does not become king” - Wook
“You must believe there is no better way to control a woman than marriage.” - Yeon Hwa (daaaamn, girl!)
Okay, even Eun haters - you have to admit, the boat race scene between him and Soon Deok was SUPER cute! I can’t believe she pulled punches, but I guess, what can you do when you’re in love?
Did it kill anyone else when Wang So had to pay homage to Wang Yo because he threatened to kill Hae Su? I felt like my heart was torn out having to watch him kneel before such a villain. One could argue the fact that Yo has to MAKE people kneel to him shows exactly what kind of respect he elicits.
They are making Yo’s kingship like a Reign of Terror, which pushes Wang So into vying for the throne. I do think Wang So is such a loving person, what pushes him is not ambition for power, but the power to protect those he loves because they are threatened. I think that's plausible.
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 10:15 PM
I was totally an Eun hater, but Soon-deok improved him by 200 percent, and I think she's the main reason why we're not seeing much grumbling about how much screen time the couple had.
And yeah, Yo being this terrible is definitely going to be So's impetus to step up and take him down, especially now that even Wook has sided with him. There's no one whose life isn't on the line under Yo - I suspect even Jung (their blood brother) might not be spared for much longer, given Yo's intentions for Queen SMSS to stay out of palace politics and the fact that Jung is her favourite.
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kumoiwa
October 11, 2016 at 10:28 PM
Little Soon-deok is the cutest!!! She and big Soon-deok actually look really alike too.
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Ren
October 12, 2016 at 2:26 AM
Wittle Wang So is also adorable. I was going to say they should do more kid scenes, but then I remembered that the show was pre-produced and I'm already shouting at the screen for them to stop hurting my poor babies. I mean seriously what they're doing to Eun and Seon-deok is like leading innocent lamb to the slaughter.
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kumoiwa
October 12, 2016 at 10:15 AM
Little So's voice is so cute I wanted to smother him with hugs and ice cream. Too adorable! And arghh Eun and Soon-deok I'm ready for the impending heartbreak and tears. Ok I'm not. But I need to see it happen! Ah! Do I?? SO torn.
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69 atz
October 11, 2016 at 10:13 PM
Random thoughts in my head-darn! Soo in her modern time should have studied Korean history harder! As an average girl in the time, she is just clueless and not pragmatic at all above all she is not smart. This might cost her life and others' whom she loves dearly.
-Maybe YH has been giving Soo poison thus her health has been deteriorating, who knows!
- the history tells us that So eventually married to YH, I do hope So finally find that it is YH who manipulated and put his loved ones( not just Soo) to death before he married her. I hope So will give her a solid cold shoulder even when they get married. Many queens and princess were placed in cages in palaces( figuratively speaking)in the past. Her family will no longer powerful and her bro will be a traitor thus she will have no one on her side. I love to see her die with absolute loneliness. If they have children, I hope that is not her children but children So had with others and she was forced to keep them as hers.
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70 YY
October 11, 2016 at 10:19 PM
This episode broke my heart. I've always had a soft spot for Eun, and that last scene, he became a man, and I bawled my eyes out.
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Mel
October 11, 2016 at 10:29 PM
me too. He grew on me now that he's married. Ugh :(
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71 chunkymonkey
October 11, 2016 at 10:41 PM
As someone mentioned above, the answer to whether Haesoo has changed/will change time seems to lie in the Predestination Paradox. The writing suggests that the characters are caught in a closed time loop.
Jimong is perplexed because it was not in the stars that Yo would be King. (So he has not been relying on knowledge of history, perhaps because he transitioned into Goryeo as a child. It is unclear if he can really read the stars, or if he has visions like Su.) In the conversation between him and So, he suggests that something might have changed.
Suppose that Yo wasn't meant to be King, but it was Su's presence in Goryeo that softened So, and forced So to pledge allegiance to Yo at a crucial moment. Thus, her presence changes the course of events, enabling Yo to claim the throne. Presuming Su's modern world is the same as ours, wherein Yo was known in history to have spent some time as King, then a closed time loop would explain how she has future knowledge of the past she will become involved in. The history she comes to know in the modern world already includes the events she contributes to altering in the past.
Interpreted this way, the story's end may be upsetting because ultimately the major points of history as known in Su's (& our) modern world will not change. But she will have had an impact on how the past played out, and gained insight into why things happened as they did (basically the details lost from historical records) - in particular, So's transition into the brutal Gwangjong.
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dsgdfjfdseg
October 11, 2016 at 11:36 PM
Agree lol if wangsi did not fall in love with haesoo, he would have easily killed wangyo and become the king after moo.
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YY
October 11, 2016 at 11:38 PM
The supreme irony would be that he transforms into the brutal Gwangjong because of her, when he learns of her and Wook's love relationship. He cannot forgive her for keeping it from him, and that it's Wook of all people. In his rage and jealousy, he reverts back to his insecurities, that she has been lying to him all this while, pretending to love him in order to protect Wook....this would all be drummed into him by the conniving YH, and in a final act of retaliation, he marries YH, after cruelly informing Hae Su of his intention to take YH as wife. Hae Su dies, because her sole reason for living - So - has spurned her.
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junah
October 12, 2016 at 12:29 AM
I can see how this fit with the original C-version. But I don't see how Wook-Su past relationship will play a bigger role in K-version. So mad to Wook because his lack of effort during Su trial. if he knows he more than just relative to Su, it will be confirmation to him that Wook has betrayed Su. Rather than getting jealous, should he feel pity toward Su ?
Even if Su never disclosed her past relationship, she never lie about it too. She always honest with So for liking someone else. How come this is a betrayal ?
Also, unlike original C-version, Wook and So were not a rival to begin with. both were not ambitious to take the throne. How does he get jealous knowing he get to be with Su know ? And frankly speaking, he needs to thanks to Wook betrayal instead.
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Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 11:28 AM
Wow YY, I can totally see that happening. T_T
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YY
October 12, 2016 at 9:30 PM
Yes, and it's frustrating because I can't believe that a man who loves a woman so much would just believe all those lies and turn against her. Unless he can't forgive her for loving Wook, but that was her past, she loves him now, and So is such a lovely man, I can't accept that he'd hold it against her...so please, I don't want to see this drama deteriorate into So punishing her with cruel disdain , and she suffering and dying a little, day by day, from her broken heart.
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Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 9:41 PM
since this is an adaption of the original book... i'm fearing it might just head that direction as much as i hate it... :(
So is really different from Yinzhen though, so i think the writers might spin another reason for our OTP to break up. but then again when So hears Soo warned Wook to watch out for him, he will feel betrayed and will think Soo didn't love him. Oh who knows.
I'm just bracing for the worst ; - ;
72 Will
October 11, 2016 at 10:42 PM
All the same, so much of “Scarlet Heart: Ryeo” is so unavoidably silly it’s hard to take anything that happens in the story very seriously. Which is a shame because Soo has finally landed an essential role in the royal intrigues, taking an active part in information gathering, planning, and hopefully, actual execution of whatever the final objective ends up being. Even if Soo is not necessarily competent or logical in these actions, the fact that she’s trying goes a long way.
It’s probably not going to be enough though. One of the major existential problems with “Scarlet Heart: Ryeo” is that Goryeo itself as a concept is not especially well-defined. It’s difficult to get invested in the royal intrigues when anyone who ever gets anywhere near the throne is either moderately stupid or explicitly evil. Way back during the whole rain ritual, there was decent discussion of the role a monarch must play for his subjects. But now? It just doesn’t seem to matter.
Review by William Schwartz – Han Cinema,
Agree, everything become cliche and I have to stay watched because I already watched 16 ep and I got nothing to do,
I don’t believe this is highly rated and popular,
should have just marathoned it and it still didn’t make sense
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Kiara
October 13, 2016 at 12:38 PM
"It’s difficult to get invested in the royal intrigues when anyone who ever gets anywhere near the throne is either moderately stupid or explicitly evil."
I have to agree with him. It's irritating to watch Wang Yo, Yeon Hwa, Empress Yoo etc portrayed like this. Why? Can't they have ambition without being evil? Can't they survive without being evil? This writer should stick to modern drama. This part of the history is fascinating but he it's being turned into ridiculous unrealistic crap.
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73 pineapplegongzhu
October 11, 2016 at 11:26 PM
Episode 16 Preview: At the risk of sounding crude, we FINALLY get to see the bedroom scene with Wang So and Hae Su!
*blush* tee hee hee *blush some more* LJG was such a tease posting that on his IG account.
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Miumiu
October 12, 2016 at 12:08 AM
Really ? I have to see this. What's his IG account?
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Ratea
October 12, 2016 at 12:24 AM
actor_jg for lee joon gi's IG
Hopefully it really is the bed scene
*finger cross*
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Yoyo
October 12, 2016 at 4:18 AM
But then SBS decides to edit it out then *poof* goes our anticipated bed scene!!!
....I will through a fit if that ever happens.
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Yoyo
October 12, 2016 at 4:19 AM
I meant, THROW.
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74 gem28
October 11, 2016 at 11:26 PM
I love Yeoh Hwa, I would totally watch Kang Han-Na playing a lead in a alternate version Scarlet Heart: Queen Daemok edition. She is such an ambitious, layered character. I like characters that aren't just being driven from a place of ambition and power-struggle. Hae-Soo is more active now but she has those quintessential heroine traits of every Korean drama heroine under the sun. She goes out all out for the ones she loves, cares about and can go to ridiculous lengths for them although not likely changing their outcome. The point is to make us root for the devoted, pure of heart heroine and which we do. Also, her methods to ensure Eun's survival by hiding him in plain sight was utterly ridiculous and poorly planned. There's not much to her other than that. Yeon Hwa on the other hand lights up the screen with her presence, her conviction and her at times conflicting brand of emotions. I would be eagerly watching out for her. I would watch whatever she does next hopefully as the lead. She deserves her own show where she can fully grace the audience with her range.
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pogo
October 11, 2016 at 11:36 PM
To be fair to Su, she didn't actually suggest hiding at the Damiwon - it was Soon-deok who showed up wearing the uniform as a disguise and she'd already sneaked herself and Eun unto the place all on her own. All Su had to do was keep them there (and she had to, there were guards around anyway) until it was time to get out for their boat.
And it would have worked if Eun and Soon-deok had cleaned up after themselves and Yeon-hwa hadn't come by at that precise moment.
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gem28
October 11, 2016 at 11:47 PM
Well, it was poorly written. I don't know what issue the writers have against IU's character. Why always give her the weakest plot points over and over again?? You'd think they'd give her something memorable and interesting to do by now. But its still that one step forward, two steps backwards with her. She does a few things right and takes a few steps back.
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Maui
October 13, 2016 at 4:19 AM
Does anyone else think Soo should post a sign on her bedroom door...."Prince refuge....have nowhere else to go in the palace?...I'm here for you"
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pineapplegongzhu
October 13, 2016 at 5:33 AM
In an interview, LJG said that Hae Su's character is very motherly, and gives Wang So the affection he has always wanted from his own mother, which is why Wang So transfers his love to Hae Su.
Interestingly, it is the younger brothers who have thus far had to hide with Hae Su: Jung and Eun. HS definitely plays the 'mother' figure to both of them in this episode.
The princes hiding beneath Hae Su's skirts......although, I'm sure Wang So wouldn't mind that so much..... (gosh, I'm terrible) 3:)
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Sojuboy
October 12, 2016 at 5:42 AM
Have you ever seen Empire of Lust? That movie is quite crude but she was quite good in it. You gets to see two lustful Kangs' in action. Kang Ha Neul and Kang Hanna! :P
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gem28
October 12, 2016 at 7:17 AM
You mean to say the brother-sister duo hooked up before brother-sister, explains why she does that incest bit with so much conviction. I will definitely watch it.
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75 junah
October 11, 2016 at 11:48 PM
with so many bashing to Suu in this episode, I am the minority that support our heroine here. I don't see any wrong by her not being true to Soo. Despite what she believes of someone character, she also knows history will happen. So what she feels about people around her become irrelevant. it is not like she does not trust Soo, but it is her knowledge of future that prevent her to gambling with Eun life if she acts merely upon her current feeling while ignoring the history.
I think this is a wise thing to do as someone who knows the future.
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Diana
October 12, 2016 at 5:52 PM
Exactly, Soo is trying so desperately to be careful and she's also trying to not interfere with history. She's also afraid for BOTH Eun and So. Soo is fighting against FATE and sadly, we all know that it won't work in her favor. History and the fates of her loved ones will always go through and this event will most likely cause So to want the throne and become Gwangjong.
Yes, I wanted to shake her when she didn't tell So about Eun but I understand her. What I've learned about this drama is that it's easy to judge a character when we don't know the full extent of their actions yet. Remember when the fandom judged BOTH So and Soo because of 1) her psychotic reaction and 2) his forced kiss? I feel like we need to wait until next week to fully understand why she did what she did and maybe she'll FINALLY realize the consequences of her actions.
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76 Diana
October 12, 2016 at 12:03 AM
I honestly don't get the hate being directed towards Hae Soo. While it was definitely frustrating to watch her turn back to the visions, I do get WHY she decided not to reveal Eun and Soon Deok's whereabouts to Wang So. As for those who say that Soo doesn't trust So, that's obviously not true. Soo obviously KNOWS how So felt when he supposedly 'killed' Yo two years ago and that's why she doesn't want him to be the one to kill another brother AGAIN. Not only have ALL of her visions come true so far, she is desperately trying to change the fates and history of her loved ones but DESTINY IS AGAINST HER. No matter how hard she tries, it will still happen. That's why she wants to separate So and Eun so badly so that her vision doesn't come true.
Unfortunately for her, this decision will cost her. I'm also gonna go ahead and blame Yeon-Hwa for throwing Eun and his wife to the real wolves (Wook and Yo).
I was rather bummed that there weren't a lot of So/Soo moments in this episode. I just want them to experience happiness before all the bloodshed again but I guess the writers just want us (including the characters) to be in constant pain and suffering. At least we're getting the "famous" arrow scene (possibly inspired by BBJX?) where So shields So from an arrow attack and they both spend a night together LOL. Although to be honest, I've come to realize that previews for this show are VERY misleading so who knows what'll happen!
Also, I'm really excited to see So FINALLY wanting the throne. Go kick that snake Yo (and Wook) outta there!
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JoseMiro
October 12, 2016 at 1:05 AM
"I’m also gonna go ahead and blame Yeon-Hwa for throwing Eun and his wife to the real wolves (Wook and Yo)"
I lost my respect to YH since the day she plotted against innocent life (Su - poisoning tea) to achieve her ambition. If she can disregards life while still struggling for power, imagine what she can do if she had the power in her hand. Power tends to corrupt, and she already corrupt long before had the power.. and lot of comments praise her /* shakehead
What make me more pissed off is at the end of the day she'll get what she want (historically wise) .. I wish she will get some payback for what she has done and not reward .. is it to much to ask justice in this story ? /*sigh
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Diana
October 12, 2016 at 5:45 PM
@JoseMiro: I agree. I've started to really despise (yet also admire in horror) ever since the poison incident. She indirectly killed Lady Oh, caused Wook to go down a dark path, almost got both So and Soo killed. The extent in which she was willing to go in order to gain power and become queen is just... damn, girl. And in this episode, she further confirmed her willingness to throw away HER OWN HALF BROTHER she grew up with just to save her own neck.
I'm really hoping So will find out about her part in almost getting Soo killed because he will hate and NEVER forgive her. At this point in the story, I'm starting to feel that there's definitely some kind of connection and parallel going on between Yeon-Hwa/So/Soo and Queen Yo/Taejo/Lady Oh... Yeon-Hwa loves So but he doesn't love her... yet he'll have to marry her in order to get the throne to protect his loved ones. It's starting to become even more clear that So and Soo's story has the words tragedy and doom written all over it.
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Jamie Opso
October 12, 2016 at 8:08 PM
@JoseMiro
"If she can disregards life while still struggling for power, imagine what she can do if she had the power in her hand. Power tends to corrupt, and she already corrupt long before had the power."
Agreed, 1,000%!
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77 vip
October 12, 2016 at 12:30 AM
I found this. It said WE and SD probably not died ?
https://twitter.com/_AuroraRain_/status/785861959589781506?lang=en
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78 patpat
October 12, 2016 at 12:39 AM
I keep thinking, what if the history that Jimong and Go Hajin knew is different than the history that we know now? According to the history, after King Taejo’s death, the list of the king is Moo, Yo, then So. But Jimong said that Yo’s crowning was out of his prediction. Yo was never meant to be king before, it should have been Moo then So. Go Hajin also thought that after King Taejo, Gwangjong was the next King (yes, I even rewatch eps 1 to make sure), probably because Moo’s reign wasn’t significant. Yo’s reign in history, if it existed, should have been remarkable for the destruction he had done so far, but Go Hajin didn’t have any memory about that. So I think it’s safe to say that the history that Go Hajin knew was different from the history that we know. Hence, we can say that the history did change. And the reason for that change, as Jimong said, should be a variable. What if the variable is Go Hajin’s Soo?
Let’s start from the beginning. The ones who were born under the star of the king were Moo and So. Despite of all the obstacles, So was destined to be a king, so it’s safe to say that with or without Soo, he would eventually become the king. But HOW he will achieve that goal is the true question and I think that is the exact reason of Soo’s time travelling to Goryeo.
The events from So’s arrival at the palace till the monks’ assassination were relatively free from Soo’s influence, so it would still happen that way even if Go Hajins’s Soo didn’t exist. So would use this chance to stay in the palace, and we may never know for sure how his character would develop w/o Soo’s influence, but giving his family’s cold shoulder and without love and care from anybody, I think he would grow up just as how King Taejo wanted him to be: ruthless but politically effective. So would lead the rain ritual (as planned by the king and Jimong) despite of his scar, he would eventually gain support from people, and there he was, ready for the throne. Jimong and the king knew that Yo was born under the star of treason, so they knew he would revolt someday, and I guess that’s why King Taejo tried to send him afar, much to his resentment. But even if he did revolt, they assumed that So would get rid of him completely, and that was what should have happened if only So delivered the fatal blow on Yo on the cliff. The real ruthless So, w/o Soo’s influence, would have no sympathy for Yo. Moo would be poisoned and drowned probably by So or Wook or Won or combination of them, it would be covered and his death would be written in history as a natural course of disease. With Moo and Yo gone, So would be the one who ascend to the throne. Given his ruthless nature, he would secure his position just like how Yo’s doing now: killing his brothers and those who had the potential of revolting against him. Wook and Won, the sly and powerful ones, might be one of the early victims. Eun would be killed for his powerful family.
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patpat
October 12, 2016 at 12:41 AM
(continued)
Jung might be killed because of So’s jealousy for his mom’s love, and who knows that Baekah might or might not survive. So would be that cruel and ruthless Gwangjong who killed his own brothers for the throne, and that’s exactly the history that Go Hajin knew.
But now we have Go Hajin’s arrival in Goryeo (and strikingly at the same time as So’s arrival in the palace) and her fated encounter with So. The moment she offered him her sympathy, she took her first step into changing the course of history w/o her even realizing. His character grew up into different direction than how it should have grown, deviating him as far as from the ruthless king material to nothing of the sort. This version of So would never be able to kill his own brother and that’s the reason Yo remained and became the king, thus negated the history that Go Hajin previously knew. The history has indeed changed because of her influence on So.
One may wonder that if Go Hajin’s Soo did change the history, then why her premonitions still come true? The premonitions are likely the trace of Soo’s memory that remained when Soo reincarnated into Go Hajin. If the history differed from the one Soo knew, shouldn’t the premonition change as well? I’d like to flesh out each premonition. King Taejo’s and Moo’s death will simply happen the same way with or without Go Hajin’s arrival, thus they stayed true to her premonition. But for the premonition of Soo standing alone in front of the throne, we start to see that the reality differed from her premonition. Here she didn’t stand alone; So was standing there with her. Then on the premonition of Eun’s execution, So was laughing frantically as he killed Eun. But in the reality, as we see from the preview, So’s face was filled with horror and grief as he slaughtered Eun. That laughing So was the version of So without Soo’s influence, the ruthless So who would happily kill his brother to secure his throne. That grieving So in the present is So with Soo’s influence.
See how things that involve So start to take on different pathway? Soo may still think that she can’t change anything but the truth is, it’s changing before her very eyes.
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patpat
October 12, 2016 at 12:42 AM
(continued)
To wrap it all, the purpose of Soo’s time travelling to Goryeo is to change the history, by changing So’s personality and the way So takes to become Gwangjong specifically, in order to make the history the way that we know now. Without her arrival, So would still become the king, but the pathway he took to become Gwangjong would be by killing his own brothers, his loyal staffs, and many more. He might not be doing any good to his nation given to his nature, which explains why Soo could only remember him as a horrible king in history. But with Soo’s influence, the present So is a much more better man who won’t go on killing spree his brothers (Eun was exception under Yo’s command), and as we know in our present history, he only killed the ones who revolted and threatened the stability of the nation. As Gwangjong, he also did many good things for his people and had a long reign of 26 years. Soo might not exist in history, but her presence is what shapes the history the way it is.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 2:47 AM
@Patpat! There you are! I was hoping to hear from you!
YES! I totally agree, and I think several commentators have mentioned the causal loop regarding time travel. But, I love how you tracked history before Su's influence and after.
I also like the fact that you hit on a very important issue: that of influence. Several commentators (understandably) have been frustrated with what appears to Su's lack of agency or assertive/proactive actions.
But, Su is actually an extremely powerful influence - on So. Because of her, his life is completely different, HE is completely different. He said it himself to Yeon Hwa, without Su, he would have no future.
It's easy, with a 21st century mindset, to think of power only in terms of how you can move people like chess pieces on a board. How you can force or manipulate them into doing your will. The level of your power is indicated by how much of your own desires/agenda you can fulfill, all the while keeping everyone under your thumb. That can be a very destructive and oppressive sort of power.
But, Su does not wield that kind of power. Hers is the soft and freeing power of unmitigated love. She cares for So in the very beginning when she had absolutely no reason to because that's kind of person she is: kind, caring, trusting, loving: always. And that changes So - but in a way that allows him to be who he is meant to be, even who he has always wanted to be. I find that so beautiful.
I think Wook, Lady Hae, Lady Oh, Baek Ah, Eun, Jung and Mu see that in her, too; which is why they all love her. By contrast, Yo, Queen SMSS, Yeon Hwa also see that - but they take it as a threat - which IT IS. It IS a threat to the established cutthroat of palace politics because you cease to see people as either assets or enemies, but you start to see people as PEOPLE: as family, friends, and lovers.
Oh yes, I think Su is very powerful - lovingly powerful.
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 10:44 AM
@PineappleGonzhu, I love this.....you sum it up so well....".It’s easy, with a 21st century mindset, to think of power only in terms of how you can move people like chess pieces on a board....But, Su does not wield that kind of power. Hers is the soft and freeing power of unmitigated love....I think Wook, Lady Hae, Lady Oh, Baek Ah, Eun, Jung and Mu see that in her, too; which is why they all love her. "...absolutely, and might I add, King Taejo, saw that in Soo too. It felt to me like the reason he investigated who Soo was after Lady Oh died is because he saw Soo as an unforseen threat....he spent years trying to find a way to protect Lady Oh from Queen S greed, perhaps giving her Damiwon, only for Soo to be the variable that finally separated him from Lady Oh. Lady Oh was willing to go because of the power of love. The unconditional love between a mother and her child. Oh yes Su's love is powerful, it is the catalyst that has changed all those who come in close contact with it....Even 10th Prince's last words in this episode to Soo "I am her awesome person....I cannot leave her to fall alone..." The awesome part mention tells me it was Soo's influence on him of teaching someone else about the importance of standing up for love. That the game of thrones is an empty reward a mirage that pretends to give you what your heart truly desires only to turn into sand thru your fingers once you hold it in your hands. In the end only love can make you complete.....and only Su could be the carrier of this powerful message from the 21st. Century to Goryeo because she comes from a time where royalty doesn't exsist and people search for happiness thru relationships. In this sense YeonWha is trapped and a product of her times, and place where love holds no real value.
patpat
October 12, 2016 at 8:20 AM
@PineappleGongzhu @Seltzerwater @TourmalineMillie
Thank you guys, you're giving me too much credits lol
You know what, I just realized that at one moment Soo actually mentioned that Gwangjong was the 4th king! I was baffled because then the history she knew would be the same as our version (and wrecking out my theory of her different history lol) but I dig up the event before that moment and I think I get an explanation.
So I rewatch eps 6, and apparently right after Soo collapsed from cutting her wrist, she had 4 premonitions and remembered that Gwangjong was the 4th king of Goryeo. I wonder why she got those ONLY RIGHT AFTER she cut her wrist. My theory is, by cutting her wrist she had caused something much, much bigger than just simply cancelling the marriage. If she got married to the king, it would cut her tie to Wook and So and everything that we see from eps 7 to eps 15 would not exist. By refusing to marry the king, she had triggered the chain of reaction that would eventually result in the events that she saw in her premonitions (King Taejo’s, Moo’s, Yo’s death, and Gwangjong with blurred face) and also result in Yo becoming the 3rd king, and So becoming the 4th king, instead of 3rd king like Jimong’s prediction and how the original history should have been. It explains why she remembered that Gwangjong was the 4th king ONLY AFTER she cut her wrist, because before that, the history shouldn’t have gone that way. That moment she cut her wrist is exactly the moment the whole history changed its course to the history that is now unfolding before our eyes.
So I take back my words that King Taejo's and Moo's death would be the same with or without Soo; they wouldn't. If only Soo married the king, Lady Oh wouldn't die, and the King's health wouldn't deteriorate fast, he wouldn't collapse and maybe he would be killed by Woohee's sword instead of dying on his bed. Wook might not have poisoned Moo because w/o Soo as part of his ambition, I don't think he would have gone this far. Moo might die from other cause but not poisoned by mercury.
I'm really interested on Soo's premonitions because if the writer think like how I do, then he/she deserves big applause. Well, it's a long post so I'd just write a new one about the premonitions lol
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TourmalineMillie
October 12, 2016 at 5:41 AM
@PineappleGongzhu
*But, Su does not wield that kind of power. Hers is the soft and freeing power of unmitigated love. She cares for So in the very beginning when she had absolutely no reason to because that’s kind of person she is: kind, caring, trusting, loving: always. And that changes So – but in a way that allows him to be who he is meant to be, even who he has always wanted to be. I find that so beautiful.*
I LOVE this so much. Soo's power is some kind of "soft power" (influence) as opposed to the type of "hard power" (more coercive) people appear to want from her.
@patpat
Your entire post should be pined up somewhere. It's amazingly coherent and explains a hell of a lot. I especially like how you've managed to reconcile historical facts with the facts of the drama and extrapolated how things would have been had there been no Soo.
I'd believe this was the intent of the writers even if the end result isn't nearly as coherent as this post. I mean, you can see how beautiful the story is even with all the flaws of the drama.
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Maui
October 13, 2016 at 4:57 AM
@patpat...I finally have had time to sit down and read thru your entire post...so many comments!....thank you for sharing this step by step and sorting thru all the scenarios created by Soo's presence in the past. All the ripples in time that are being changed by her presence, it finally answers once and for all WHY EXACTLY Soo travelled to the past. Frankly speaking, your post and Barberry's water maiden posts should be posted right at top of the comments page, with a warning of read both of these posts first to understand the basic mechanics of this story. When the Astronomer mentions that there is now a variable that is changing the history, I was literally jumping for joy in my seat....yes,yes,yes it happened, the writers allowed change in the history....this opens up a whole different set of possible outcomes and endings for So and Soo. The writers are now free to exercise that creative license they keep telling us about....the original c-version did not have this....it stuck pretty faithfully to history, there was no astronomer, and nothing was changed by Roxi. In fact I never really had a clear sense of why Roxi traveled back in time so I was so relieved to see that the writers this time around are answering that question for us. Yes, Soo had a specific role to play but your brilliant deduction skills pinned it patpat. Great job, and thank you, thank you.....Now the question remains...how far will the writer/writers exercise that freedom they just gave themselves to due their own interpretation of this story?....
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 6:27 AM
@patpat @pineapplegongzhou
Hear hear! Patpat's thought process really laid clear for the purpose of the show. Go Ha Jin comes from a different future than ours. She's shaping her future to the the one that we know. This makes so much logical sense because her premonitions, while true, have been wrong in delivering on the details (aka, such as the details of being in front of the throne with WS, WS's tears at killing Eun). Goddamn, sometimes this show is too subtle for its own good. And I'm fully on board with @pineapplegongzhou's Power of Love theory for Hae Su. The love that Hae Su has for Wang so is the primary factor in changing his behavior and making him into the Gwangjong reform king that we all know today. Overall, I think there some editing issues, but the show stands up really well to some deep reading and I think that's always the mark of good writing. Show's problem is that it's depending on people to pay attention very closely (but then also serves us many many useless scenes).
It's interesting to me that so many people hate Hae Su's motivation because she doesn't "trust" Su. It's a charge leveled at women a lot, that we're not trustworthy.
I find that she's motivated by love of Wang So, to protect him, to save him, and that doesn't mean that she shouldn't trust herself first. In this episode, Hae Su choose trust in herself, to change things for the better for Wang So. And that I find to be a noble motivation and at the heart of who she is. Are we all freaking out because Wang So knows that she was hiding Eun without telling him? Maybe. I for one, can't wait to see the fall out.
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 6:32 AM
I also find it unfair that people are blaming Hae Su for not spotting the mercury poisoning earlier. King Mu wasn't just a dude, hanging out in the bathtub all day by himself and Hae Su. She wasn't the only one to see him. He had a trusted circle of advisors who would HAVE to notice and yet none of those people spoke up (that goes for you too Jimong, Baek-Ah, Ji Soo). If she HAD questioned the king's sanity, she also would have been shut-down REAL quick. This gives creedance to my theory that Wang So was not in the palace for the last two years, or away for travel significantly so that Hae Su could not tell him her suspicions.
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pogo
October 12, 2016 at 6:38 AM
Yeah, plus Su isn't a doctor - she correctly figures out the Crown Prince's (as he was then) eczema and the correct treatment for it, but that was based on her own experience not only in her job, but in her life.
Also eczema is WAYYYYYY more common than mercury poisoning. I mean, I doubt any of us Beans would know what the symptoms for that were, without the use of google. And Su doesn't exactly have the Internet at her fingertips back in Goryeo.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 7:33 AM
+1 Preach it, Seltzerwater!
Thing is, everyone has a very SPECIFIC idea of what kind of heroine they WANT Hae Su to be, rather than taking her for who she is.
And not to go on my ranting against 21st century sensibilities, but if you narrowly define a "progressive" or "challenging" or "strong" heroine to be a Lara Croft or whatnot, you miss out on some really GREAT heroines who just don't fit that mold. And who is to say which is better, anyway?!
BAH! I do think, after getting Lee Joon Gi, the director/writer must have decided to put more emphasis on developing Wang So's character rather than Hae Su's character. There's still a lot about her that I think bears explaining or fleshing out. I think IU is doing a very good job, but I wonder if the writer forgot to develop Hae Su in favor of Wang So given the casting choices.
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79 blu
October 12, 2016 at 1:07 AM
really curious though - what happened to Yo's wife & in-laws? they were supposed to be very powerful: the prime minister or something? were they also exiled when he became a traitor?
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coco
October 12, 2016 at 2:49 AM
plot holes, the show has full of that as usual
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endo
October 12, 2016 at 7:21 PM
Yo's father-in-law was the guy who hired Woo Hee.
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chocopieb
October 12, 2016 at 8:54 PM
Wasnt the one who hired woohee, an ex official of goguryeo? Thats why woohee called him a traitor...
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80 kumoiwa
October 12, 2016 at 1:07 AM
I swear, I was just doing the dishes when I remembered that last scene of Eun and Soon-deok together and TEARED UP BADLY omg I'm not going to get over this sadness am I.
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 1:20 AM
I feel you. I'm very happy that they now both love each other that is why they must both survive. Can't wait for the next episode
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chocopieb
October 12, 2016 at 8:56 PM
Me too :( listening to akdong musician's and im dohyuk's osts is making it worse for me. Although the songs are bright but it keeps reminding me of the brightness of both eun and soondeok, how much it contrasts what awaits them and i'm.. ;;
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81 alasecond
October 12, 2016 at 1:10 AM
You know what baffles me the most?
Its taken thousands of years for us humans to evolve from the concept of monarchy to various forms of administrative systems that exist today (and the current systems have come into play in quick succession within last 100-200 years)
Maybe not even evolve... but taken us that long to let go of that greed of owning the power..
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Jamie Opso
October 12, 2016 at 8:25 PM
It's not even just monarchy...it's warlord-ry. Royalty is just essentially hereditary warlord-ry. I think we've had the strongman thing going on since prehistory. It's a way of winners at war to control their tribes, spread their genes, control access to reproductive resources (women).
The thing is, it seemed perfectly natural (and probably is), and it was all over the world. Royal families in all lands played this game of thrones thing in almost exactly the same way: A king, multiple queens and concubines, political marriages, lots of offspring, everyone fighting for the throne. Plots, treason, coups. Attempts to kill off the entire families of rivals, including small children, lest they be a threat or a rallying point for enemies. It's drearily familiar.
The idea to change was likely so radical it was close to inconceivable.
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82 Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 1:15 AM
Episode 15 makes me really really sad. All I can sharply remember is the love story of the 10th prince and his wife.. They just started to feel the real love of each other after a long time of their marriage.. then why things turn around?!! wishing that they will both survive, they must survive! Can't wait for the next episode.. Another is the "girlfriend" of Prince Baek Ah, hope she won't do any trouble again or else I won't forgive her. I hate the Queen, as an actress she's really doing great. To sum it all, episode 15 is superb!! You must not missed a single minute.
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83 shelly
October 12, 2016 at 1:21 AM
so is a leashed wolf - yo will tease him and use him and threaten him until so snaps... i wonder how much damage he'll do before then. and if any of his human hard-learned skills survive the event.
and oh, wook - he's the one who told yo what so's levers are. he's the one telling yo how to use so from now on. and then he has the gall to cry over soo!!! i could slap him.
the perfect image of the person who blames others for his own sins.
as for eun, i guess he and his wife are done - so much lovey-dovey between them means they're doomed, lol.
loved general park's expressions - he knew what was coming and basically told so directly he'll not be loyal if his daughter is "caught between the wangs infighting..."
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84 Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 1:25 AM
Wook didn't kill his brother.. it's her sister Yeon Hwa.
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joy
October 12, 2016 at 1:35 AM
Do you even watch eps 14? it's very clearly stated that Wook was the one who supplied the mercury to Damiwon. It was also Wook's idea to frame Soo in order to control So. Yeonhwa was completely out of the story. She knew nothing about the mercury plan.
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 4:53 AM
I watched all eps from 1 to 15. Well, I'm still confused.. Let's see coz I believe that Wook didn't kill the King with that mercury. He's not involved in that mercury/poison plan. I'll give ep 14 another watch, some of the online episodes has cut scenes..
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chocopieb
October 12, 2016 at 5:05 AM
wook is the one who told won to put mercury in damiwon...
wook is the one who told yo to use soo as a bait for so..
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 5:16 AM
Really? because I haven't seen such scene, all I know is that the 9th prince paid the friend of Hae Soo in Damiwon to put the mercury and wook is the one who told yo to use soo as a bait for So.
Well I think it is just me who can't accept that Wook can kill his brother for the throne.
joy
October 12, 2016 at 1:55 AM
The flashback conversation of Jimong, Moo, and little So gives me insight on why Queen Yoo loathes So so much.
So said to Yeonhwa that the day someone (which I guess Jimong) told him he was born under the star of the king, he got his scar, so the scarring incident had to happen right after their conversation. I wonder if Queen Yoo also knew about that. It would then be reasonable as why she would use So instead of Yo to threat the King over his marriage, because she thought So was more valuable to the king. But he ended up scarred, and she had to think that this child is no longer king's material, hence was useless and shameful. Therefore she sent him to Shinju. But despite of his unfavorable condition for the throne, I think deep down Queen Yoo is still afraid that So will eventually become the king, and as she loves Yo and Jung more for whatever reason, she tries to get rid of him. This explains why she hates him so much and even asks Yo to get rid of him immediately. She knows what the future holds and she’s afraid.
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85 Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 1:27 AM
I'm really curious what Yo said to the "girlfriend" of Baek Ah
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JiaYou
October 12, 2016 at 4:39 AM
Probably to make her a mole in addition to Chaeryoung.
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 4:57 AM
Oh no. I hope she won't do such another bad act in order to live her people. Do you think she's really an antagonist?
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Titi
October 12, 2016 at 5:57 AM
Judging by her stiff face, YES
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Jsaz
October 13, 2016 at 5:18 AM
I think so.. Hay
Kara
October 14, 2016 at 6:39 PM
"Juding by her stiff face"
Ohmygod I'm howling ??
Baek
October 17, 2016 at 8:41 AM
i think she's more like a double agent.. (working with Baek-ah and So against Yo)
Its kind of ridiculous to work with a tyrant king like Yo (And though we didnt hear what he told her, but im definite that Yo confirm had some unreasonable request or deal that he wont lose out.. I believe she's not that stupid..)
Su treated her as best friend and Baek-ah trust her completely without question (The ep where king passed away and they went to fetch crown prince back)
And didnt she just get back with Baek-ah finally after two years!! If she's really up to something
(Then i shall return her the words Baek-ah told her..) You are really scary
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86 pollyanna
October 12, 2016 at 1:28 AM
Comment was deleted
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87 pieryrose
October 12, 2016 at 1:32 AM
I wish i had that determination and motivation like WangYo in doing my studies ,who didnt give up to get the throne he always wanted.
This drama's editing is so damn worse, that its like a 2 year old just cut and pasted scenes randomly, without any flow at all.
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 5:03 AM
Do you even watched all episodes from 1 to 15? or do you know how hard to edit even short scene?
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pieryrose
October 12, 2016 at 6:25 AM
yes. I have watched all episodes from 1 to 15 without missing an episode. I am saying this because, i have watched tons of k-dramas, which includes many many saeguk dramas.So atleast i know, when it comes to good flow of editing and execution of the story.
I know editing even short scene is very difficult, but since this is a pre-produced drama, atleast they could have maintained consistent quality in execution. Ep 6 in this drama highlights worst editing. They could have done so much better.
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Jsaz
October 13, 2016 at 5:28 AM
Well you have point. I've also watched lots of kdramas. Can we just consider that the drama has low viewers ratings because of poor editing? For me, as long as the story is superb I will love it despite of poor editing, because there kdramas with very good editing but the story/plot is poor.
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88 coco
October 12, 2016 at 2:47 AM
heavily influenced by the c-drama cause after 15 episode,
all the good things is heavily because it from the cdrama, nothing original from this version of even upgraded version of some view
probably the 4th but the story telling make him a deux ex machina, a poor hero that we have to support and the mary sue heroine that just so kind so we have to support cause we don't have a heart if we didn't support their bad fate here,
and we have to cry or we're not human because people are dying,
but I am not sad at all, just feeling the unfortunate sigh,
the drama forced the feeling and their way, taking the viewer as fool,
and this also the reflection in the comment, people who didn't sad labelled as hater and have no compassion
what if it just not that important and easy tears grabing cinema ploy?
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LYF
October 12, 2016 at 3:50 AM
"and this also the reflection in the comment, people who didn’t sad labelled as hater and have no compassion" but..... no one is being labelled a hater here??? I'm genuinely confused reading your comment.
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LOL
October 12, 2016 at 5:38 PM
Um, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get labeled a hater for not feeling sad, come on. You can feel whatever you want to feel *shrugs*
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Ruby
October 12, 2016 at 11:05 PM
So are you saying you don't feel sad over the characters and their fates because you feel manipulated by the show?
And you think those who criticize the show or feel unmoved by it are labeled haters here?
I think folks here are polite and considerate. I haven't seen anyone called haters.
In other forums, I cringe at the way certain viewers tear into the actress playing Soo or the show itself. I doubt if any of them majored in acting in college or even took a class in film production. But they talk as if they are experts.
I get it that the show has plot holes, bad acting from some of the players, trite Kpop music, bad editing etc. But you have to admit, it also features excellent actors, good cinematography, an interesting storyline etc.
I think part of the reason some viewers get so incensed is they keep comparing this show with the original Chinese drama. This is a loose adaptation set in ancient Korea with a different director and different cast. The culture, social mores and history are different than China so why do some viewers expect this show to be a scene by scene copy of the Chinese drama? That makes no sense.
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89 miiko
October 12, 2016 at 4:17 AM
sorry but i laugh so much everytime i see queen sms... she look like evil woman from dalmation in some scene..
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90 JiaYou
October 12, 2016 at 4:37 AM
Looking closely at Su's vision, Eun's already dead by an arrow piercing through him before So stabbed him.
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Jsaz
October 12, 2016 at 5:08 AM
Hi, there are some cut scene I saw on Instagram that the wife of Eun was shot by an arrow. Have you also seen that? or is it Eun got shot? because by watching ep 15 I haven't seen any scene. I'm confused
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91 보라누나
October 12, 2016 at 5:15 AM
Ugh I have lots to say about how this show could've done soooo much better in terms of plot and editing but THIS SHOW IS MY CRACK I AM OK WITH THE LJK CLOSE UPS AND SOME GOOD OSTS THEY USE I HAVE NO REGRETS LOL
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92 Heikhawon
October 12, 2016 at 6:35 AM
Hmm... After all that has happened since the last epic send off of Lady oh, there is only one thing on my mind-Su's husky voice! My, every dialogue of hers has become a Peorty recital since then. \'. '/
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93 Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 6:51 AM
Team Hae Su! I watched some scenes again and she gets told on 2 separate occasions by 2 different people (Yo & So) that she's going to be used as the hostage/bait to control the brothers. This confirms for her, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Wang So will be used against her. (It's already been done by Yo--so she's essentially waiting for the other shoe to drop). If anything, I feel like she's trying to prevent WS from having to kill Eun, but also from her being used as leverage so WS HAS to kill Eun. Even she said to WS right before he leaves for his mission "Did he [Yo] blackmail you with my life again?"
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 7:01 AM
Reading @patpat's comment gave me a lot of food for thought.
The majority of the HS hate seems to be directed at HS not telling WS about Eun's whereabouts. But if we know anything about this story, we know that it has a deterministic ending - WS will have to end Eun's life no matter what, but the question is HOW will he end Eun's life? If HS did tell WS about her hiding Eun, there will simply be another mitigating factor that leads to Eun's death (instead of YH discovering Eun b/c he was hiding at the Damiwon, the story would have lead ANOTHER involved character to reveal Eun to Yo). I take the position that because of HS's will to save Eun on her own, Wang So is given (while still terrible) task of mercy killing Eun, instead of a murder in another horrifying manner - scarring him earlier and turning him to the bloodthirsty king Go Ha Jin knows.
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 7:02 AM
I really believe Hae Su is there to steer every major decision in Gwangjong's life to become the emperor that we know today. And that is her purpose in life. Poor baby HS, at least you get some LJK kisses out of it.
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94 Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 7:17 AM
man, I'm writing a ton before I have to go to work, but the more I think about the show the more I like it. Because it's a show that's not about making the audience happy. Probably another reason why DB comments are so numerous, people are venting. But I think the Show follows it's own logic very thoroughly and has been consistent about its intentions. (Editing weirdness aside) I find that the story really holds up.
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95 pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM
+10000 Couldn't agree more with you!
I think the director is trying to create art, not just entertainment. With such a complicated story like this, you need to be pre-produced, otherwise, you're at the whim of the audience.
I honestly think if they had be given the freedom to have 25-30 episodes rather than 20, it would have taken care of a lot of the editing complaints. There would be room enough for transitional pieces and logical progression.
In fact, I think some of the storytelling is being criticized because the audience can't tell between the storytellers specifically withholding information, or allowing for ambiguity as opposed to poor editing choices.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 7:29 AM
@Seltzerwater
Ugh, my comment #95 was SUPPOSED to be a reply to your comment 94.
Reply fail.
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 10:15 AM
Yeah I think this show is getting a ton of flack too in Korea b/c kdrama audiences are used to being spoonfed information and I don't think I've been so into a show where I had to rewatch other episodes to remember information (which is what I was doing before work, again what is life). It's definitely a show made for bingeing and maybe that's what the local broadcast audience is reacting to? The frustration at not being able to recall details from earlier episodes.
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Jsaz
October 13, 2016 at 5:35 AM
Ok guys, can we just consider that the drama has low viewers ratings because it didn't met the expectation of good editing?
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96 esjpx
October 12, 2016 at 8:17 AM
Soo got flack for trusting Wook and gets flack for not trusting So, I'm???? I don't remember an "except for the 4th Prince Wang So" clause when Lady Oh warned her to not trust men or anyone in the palace. Or is it because Wook is not the main character? What if the situations were reversed and she'd fallen for So first, how would people react to Court Lady Oh's advice. What is funny is that she's ALSO getting flack from some people for trusting her friend Chae-ryung "because she shouldn't trust anyone". I know this is a drama and we know So is the main character so he's good and trustworthy forever no matter what but to Soo all of them are the same, she's not aware there's one protagonist and several secondary characters that can turn their backs on her any second.
On another note, Yo is showing some of the same signs as Mu in the preview so he's probably being poisoned as well. Who do you guys believe is doing the poisoning? My bet is Wook/Won (again) but it would be awesome if Soo was in on it. But she's too nice isn't she? Or maybe Yeon Hwa.
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candiceraine
October 12, 2016 at 7:07 PM
+100000 this!
Same thoughts here. I mean this is the time and place where people just get framed for anything and everything. Gets thrown off a cliff and still live. Gets stabbed in the gut but still ride a horse. Gets to drink poisoned tea and still have no right to complain. Gets to be poisoned with mercury for 2 years and everyone will be none the wiser. I think we can be a little more understanding of Soo.
Dangerous times in Goryeo. Lol
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Sris
October 12, 2016 at 11:54 PM
I think she is getting flacks for showing her double standard in trust. WW and CY get her trust no matter what(even if they are wrong) while she shows distrust for So. I might have like if she would have been distrustful and vigilant of everyone in her surrounding not just So. Having said that i am not really angry at her because i kinda understand her suspicion regarding So. I just dislike that she is too trustful sometimes.
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97 Vip
October 12, 2016 at 8:23 AM
I wonder how many times Wang So tried to kiss Hae Soo and got rejected in 2 years. LOL.
Actually they reminds me of my love story. I also rejected my husband 3 times when he asked me to be his gf, because I had a crush to another man. He waited 2 years after I finally say yes. And then another 2 years after finally we got married.
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98 klopsifa
October 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM
I reeeeaaallly think, like 100% sure that Wang Eun and his wife will be killed by Wang So. Why?
Because in the preview, we see that Wang Yo is hovering on them both with an arrow ready to shoot at his hand. So I think, Wang So makes the decision (or Wang Eun plead at him) to kill Wang Eun instead of letting him being killed by Wang Yo.
If this is not the saddest and most heartbreaking scene of the entire series I do not know what is
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kumoiwa
October 12, 2016 at 9:21 AM
I also think it's likely Yo was behind the killing shot with his fancy bow and arrow, and that So cut Eun down to make his pain short. If Eun pleads with So to "let me go with Soon-deok" or something like that I'm going to break down and never recover from this pain ever again :( Poor babies.
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99 halfmoon
October 12, 2016 at 8:33 AM
I didn't read all 500+ comments so I might be repeating some... But these are my thoughts:
--- I'm jumping ship. I no longer care for a Soo-So relationship (whether Soo hid Eun for a lack of trust in So, or for his sake). I don't feel Soo's investment into the relationship. The girl wasn't even smiling that much in his presence (in last episode). All I want is for some peacefulness in So's life. Enough of people mistreating him or taking him for granted. Enough of him sacrificing everything for others (including Soo).
--- I want to know So more. We get a flashback about the closeness (?) of Ji-Mong, Mu and So, the encounter of Eun and his wife when they were child, a flashback of Wook's discussion with his mother and sister... But I still don't know much about So besides how he was mistreated. I still don't know the many feelings, worries and dreams that he has right now. At this point of the show, I just feel we should be knowing him more.
--- it's ironic how Soo doesn't want to alter history, and yet, she wants So to change (=not kill his brothers). And her presence is actually been the catalyst to some events. I wonder if Eun (or another prince) would be killed by So, because of Soo.
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100 patpat
October 12, 2016 at 8:47 AM
I keep wondering about Soo’s premonitions even since eps 6 and so far most of them come true. I may overthink this but if the writer uses them as how I think he/she does, then he/she deserved loud applause.
So I rewatch eps 6, and apparently right after Soo collapsed from cutting her wrist, she had 4 premonitions and remembered that Gwangjong was the 4th king of Goryeo. I wonder why she got those ONLY RIGHT AFTER she cut her wrist. My theory is, by cutting her wrist she had caused something much, much bigger than just simply cancelling the marriage. If she got married to the king, it would cut her tie to Wook and So and everything that we see from eps 7 to eps 15 would not exist. By refusing to marry the king, she had triggered the chain of reaction that would eventually result in the events that she saw in her premonitions (King Taejo’s, Moo’s, Yo’s death, and Gwangjong with blurred face) and also result in Yo becoming the 3rd king, and So becoming the 4th king, instead of 3rd king like Jimong’s prediction and how the original history should have been. It explains why she remembered that Gwangjong was the 4th king ONLY AFTER she cut her wrist, because before that, the history shouldn’t have gone that way. That moment she cut her wrist is exactly the moment the whole history changed its course to the history that is now unfolding before our eyes.
On the rain ceremony, Soo got the same premonition of Gwangjong as before, only that this time he could see his face clearly. That’s because only on that precise moment where So succeeded bringing the rain that the future of So as Gwangjong was completely set, hence no more blurred face. So’s fate as Gwangjong had been sealed.
On Eun’s wedding, Soo got the premonition of SD lying dead and Eun being slaughtered by So. Their wedding was exactly what brought that tragic event to them. If Eun didn’t marry SD, then he would probably be slaughtered along with his family by the soldiers during Yo’s riot. SD wouldn’t have to die, and So wouldn’t have to kill Eun. That wedding pretty much sealed their fate and because of that, there Soo got the premonition.
The premonitions for King Taejo’s, Moo’s, and Yo’s death are pretty set up already, we’ve seen that two of them had happened exactly the same with her premonitions. But for the premonitions that involve So, which was her standing alone in front of the throne, we saw that So was actually standing with her in reality. And the premonition of So slaughtering Eun, from the preview we see that So doesn’t laugh frantically like he did in her premonition. The reality basically differs for these two.
IMO, these two premonitions show us how significant the change that Soo inflicted on him. The moment Soo saw these two premonitions, I believe So still had ambition for the throne. It was clear on the hell dinner with his mom, Yo, and Jung after Eun’s wedding that he did have his eyes on the throne, even if the reason was because everyone fought over it.
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patpat
October 12, 2016 at 8:51 AM
(continued)
That version of So wouldn’t stand with Soo to defend Moo, and would happily slaughter Eun to get the throne, hence the premonitions come true. But from eps 10 to 15 we see how his feeling for Soo had been growing to the point that if he had to choose between Soo and throne, he would forsake the latter. He even became 0% interested with the throne. Therefore the premonitions don’t hold true anymore, and that’s why the reality differs. So stood with her in front of the throne, and he would still kill Eun but not with laughter, only horror and grief.
Soo’s wrist cutting basically changed the direction of the history, that is So to became the 4th king instead of 3rd, but he would still be the same ruthless Gwangjong who killed her brothers, nephew, and loyal subjects for the throne. It was her influence and love for So later that changed him in the way that instead of killing his brothers for the throne, he would become a king to protect them.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 8:56 AM
+1000 LOVE your analysis, patpat! \^o^/
So well thought out and argued!
Question: where is the vision of Wang So looking at the throne alone?
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patpat
October 12, 2016 at 9:10 AM
Thank you, I still believe I'm overthinking stuff though lol
"...But for the premonitions that involve So, which was her standing alone in front of the throne, we saw that So was actually standing with her in reality."
You mean this sentence? What I mean is Soo standing alone in front of the throne, but because in the reality So was standing with her, I'd say that this premonition involved So.
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Seltzerwater
October 12, 2016 at 10:30 AM
nah, I think you're spot on because there's textual (or in-show) evidence to support your theory. It would also explain why audiences feels so passionate for Wang So and lukewarm on Hae Su, because Wang So is the HERO and Hae Su is the protector. The role of a guardian/guide is NOT an incredibly exciting or active role. Her role is to protect Wang So's heart and to love him, it's not exactly calling out for huge dramatic moves.
pineapplegongzhu
October 12, 2016 at 3:00 PM
@Seltzerwater
Too true, the role of hero is a much more visible role than that of protector.
I think it's easy to dismiss supportive roles (even as leads) because it lacks the "flash" of heroic action. That is kind of sad because it means we actually put more weight on one kind of action than another.
Why should Hae Su be discounted as a compelling character just because she's the shield rather than the sword? Is not the shield just as important? I mean, the shield takes as many hits as the sword!
Napkiin
October 12, 2016 at 9:21 AM
absolutely love your analysis!
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IvoryLight
October 12, 2016 at 11:28 AM
Dear patpat the reborn tree,
This was such an excellent explanation/theory I was nodding my head the whole time I read it.
It neatly explains why HS only started seeing visions once she cut her wrist-we all know that Su is never far from danger, so it was really puzzling why it took that particular near death experience to trigger the visions, and that's such a neat reason why!
Bravo!!
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Andy Pandy
October 12, 2016 at 8:36 PM
*gives you a standing ovation*
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YY
October 12, 2016 at 9:36 PM
A terrific analysis of the most puzzling part of the drama - the premonitions. You have made everything so clear. Brilliant. This should be hung on the SH Wall of Fame Comments.
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omg
October 12, 2016 at 10:46 AM
omg I got goosebumps lol if this is actually true this would be daebak I hope they explain how haesoo's time travelling had changed the course of history in the future eps
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Maui
October 12, 2016 at 6:05 PM
@patpat....that makes so much sense now.....the Astrologer basically figured out a variable had changed and the future was already changing...and I had figured out Soo was the variable...but you just gave us the exact moment history started changing, explained the reason for the visions in the middle of all these critical scenes which everyone has been freaking out about, wondering why the scenes are there, what does it mean?, are they true?, should she pay attention or ignore them? etc....thank you patpat....
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