Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 13
by HeadsNo2
This episode puts everyone’s loyalties to the test as alliances are formed and rivalries are created all in the name of one golden chair. The fate of Goryeo comes to rest on Su’s generally incapable shoulders, leaving her to choose which of the two prominent men in her life she should entrust with information that could end their world as they know it. No pressure or anything.
EPISODE 13 RECAP
So notices the armor beneath Wook’s outer layer, just as Woo-hee rushes the king. Baek-ah takes the blade meant for his father, but the feat goes mostly unnoticed—everyone gets too distracted by the king suddenly collapsing on his own.
Baek-ah kicks the bloody sword away to hide the evidence and tells Woo-hee to run. She does, while third prince Yo tells ninth prince Won to find Wook. He knows their plan has failed.
On his deathbed, King Taejo ruminates over what he’s managed to accomplish in life with only Grand General Park and Astronomer Choi at his side. They assure the king that he made the right decision in choosing Crown Prince Mu to ascend the throne, and in turn, he tells them to watch over both Mu and So.
That night, Su thinks over So’s marriage proposal. The next morning, Yo, Wook, and ninth prince Won approach the king’s quarters with a devious plan in mind. All roads in and out of the palace have been blocked, with Yo intending to receive the king’s final decree (presumably for him to succeed the throne) without the crown prince finding out.
But before they can advance any further, they’re joined by fourteenth prince Jung and surrounded by Grand General Park’s soldiers. General Park knows exactly what Yo’s about, and cautions all four princes to leave—should they not, they’ll be charged with treason.
Even the queens are denied access to the king, with Queen Sinmyeongsunseong slowly realizing that Astronomer Choi must be trying to buy time before Crown Prince Mu arrives. Inside, only Su is allowed to tend to the king in his final moments.
Taejo knows he doesn’t have much time, so he asks Su to bring the crown prince to him. It must be her, he says, because no one else can find out about his death before the crown prince arrives. “Once you leave this room, someone will approach you,” he breathes. “To the person who only asks how I am feeling, tell them that I am asking for more tea. But beware of the one who asks if I have died—that person eyes the throne.”
After warning her not to trust anyone, he adds that the fate of Goryeo rests on her shoulders. “That may be the reason why you are here,” he continues in voiceover, as Su weaves through the soldiers outside the palace to reach her destination.
So attempts to leave the palace grounds, only to be blocked by his half-sister, Princess Yeonhwa. When she tells him that no one’s allowed to leave, he surmises that those are Wook’s orders—he’d wondered why Wook was wearing armor beneath his robes at the ceremony, but now he knows that Wook was planning on attacking the king.
Despite her limp, Su tries to make a run for it. Wook stops her to ask where she’s going, and she lies that she’s going to Damiwon to fetch more tea for the king. Wook then asks her about the marriage proposal from So like he has a right to be jealous, and though she begins to tell him he’s got it all wrong, she soon remembers the task she was originally sent out for.
It’s only then that Wook asks if the king passed away, causing Su to realize the kind of person she’s facing. The king specifically warned her against anyone asking if he had passed. “Do you… wish to become king?” Su asks haltingly.
Yeonhwa asks the same question of So, despite his adamance that the crown prince is set to succeed the king. While Su asks Wook if he will become king, we return to So, who mockingly asks his half-sister if it’s so easy to become king that all one has to do is wish for it. Yeonhwa says it would be for So, since she and her clan could throw all their support behind him.
To Su, Wook claims that the reason he wants the throne is because he needs that power to protect the ones he loves. Quick cut back to So (I’m getting whiplash), who asks Yeonhwa what power being king would grant him. “If I become king, would the heart I so desire become mine?”
Back to Wook, as he says that he will become king. Then back to So, who now says that he will become king.
The queens are finally allowed in the king’s quarters, though he already has one foot in the afterlife. He imagines Court Lady Oh in a verdant field with an armful of flowers, and whispers her name before passing on.
Surprisingly, Queen Sinmyeongsunseong cries as she tries to shake the king back to the land of the living: “You cannot leave me like this! Your Majesty! Come back! Come back!”
“For your sake, I will surely become king,” Wook tells Su. That’s not at all what she wants, but he tells her it’s already begun—he’ll attack the king’s quarters with Yo tomorrow. He takes a protesting Su by the shoulders as he adds that the crown prince won’t be returning anyway. Someone has to take the throne, so all she has to do is hide and wait for him.
He asks again whether the king has passed, and with dead eyes and a flat voice, Su only says that the king asked for more tea. That’s when he tells her that the crown prince is too far to the south for her to get to him on her own, having guessed that that’s the mission she’s on. Su just runs away in response.
Meanwhile, Yeonhwa scoffs that the only reason So wants to become king is to win a girl’s heart. (Because he used one second to convince himself that he could, or something.) So doesn’t care what she thinks, since that’s all the throne means to him.
He orders her to make way for him, but she refuses, guessing that he might try to bring the crown prince back.
Baek-ah seems unharmed for the most part as he meets with an indignant Woo-hee, who blames him for ruining her plan to kill the king. When he asks her why she did it, she claims that it’s because his father killed every member of her family.
He actually apologizes on his father’s behalf, which causes a tear to snake down Woo-hee’s cheek. She fights him when he pulls her into an embrace, but eventually gives in. “I am sorry for being my father’s son,” he adds. Are there really going to be no consequences from that ceremony? Really?
Yo figures that if the king isn’t already dead, he will be soon. Fourteenth prince Jung doesn’t seem aware of his brother’s plans, and blurts that the king is probably feeling better due to the tea Su’s been making him. Since that means that Su knows of the king’s condition, Yo is determined to stop her before she gets to the crown prince.
Su sees that ninth prince Won is looking for her, and is pulled to safety by So. Trusting him, she tells him that the king has passed away, and that he tasked her with finding the crown prince. She also tells him of Wook’s plans to attack tomorrow, earning a rise out of So, since that means that she would’ve had to have talked to Wook in order to find out.
Since all the roads out of the palace are blocked, So tries to think of another way for them to get the word out. When he says that the crown prince is in former Later Baekje territory to the south, the displaced princess from Later Baekje, Woo-hee, instantly comes to Su’s mind.
Speaking of, Baek-ah asks Woo-hee if she’d be willing to forget everything and just be with him, since no one would recognize her from the ceremony. Before she can answer, they’re interrupted when Su arrives with So to ask Woo-hee about her hometown.
Since So trusts Baek-ah, he tells him that the king has passed, which causes Woo-hee to lose her footing. Baek-ah steadies her as So fills him in on what Su told him about their brothers’ plans, asking Baek-ah to be the one to send word to the crown prince. He’ll stay behind to try and stop their brothers—and thankfully, Woo-hee knows a secret road Baek-ah can use to leave the palace.
Princess Yeonhwa tells her brother about her encounter with So, though the more pressing issue is the king’s health. No one knows if he’s alive or dead, since his queens have basically been held hostage inside his quarters so that no word will leak out.
Yeonhwa sees this as an opportunity for Wook to storm the king’s quarters and declare himself king (which would mean altering the king’s final decree), but Wook doesn’t want anyone to be able to call him a traitor. “I wish to be seen as flawless,” he says, much to his sister’s dismay.
She claims to not understand what he wants, since he even went so far as to wear armor to the ceremony the night before. Wook only tells her that he’s weighing his options. Seeing his scheming side makes Yeonhwa happy, as she arrogantly notes that she’s no longer having to force his hand—he genuinely wants the throne now: “You’ve changed, Orabeoni.”
“If the situation will not change, then I must,” Wook says, resigned. But the only thing that worries him now is the thought of having to betray Su, or so he says.
So finds Su staring at the empty throne in the dark, and jokingly asks if she wants to sit in it. Does she not want the seat that everyone’s now fighting for? Su says she doesn’t, not when the king had to kill Court Lady Oh to keep it. And now that So’s having to fight his brothers for it. “Even if you fight tomorrow, you won’t harm them, will you?”
He guesses that she’s worried about Wook, but not for the right reasons—he still thinks that she only considers Wook a relative. But if that were the case, he wonders, why did she come to him? “He said it was for my sake,” Su begins. “He was angry that he couldn’t do anything when I was driven out, so he says he wants more power.”
So nods in understanding, claiming that he once felt the same way. Looking back up toward the throne, Su says that because the king told her to live her life according to reason, she’s siding with the crown prince. But that doesn’t mean she wants to see Wook hurt, since she claims that would scar her for life.
Surprisingly, So is more than willing to go out of his way not to harm Wook, since he doesn’t want to see Wook die either. “I could be injured too,” he adds. “Are you not worried about me?” She isn’t, because she knows he’ll go on to become King Gwangjong, though of course she can’t say as much. All she tells him is that she knows he’ll be fine. So smiles at her, then looks toward the throne.
Queen Sinmyeongsunseong becomes insanely possessive over the king’s body, enough to where she refuses to let Queen Sinjeong anywhere near him. Their tiff is interrupted by So, which makes the evil queen intensely unhappy—she’d rather either of the sons she actually loves to be the first to see the king dead.
So kneels at his father’s bedside as Astronomer Choi relates the king’s last words to him, which were about how fleeting life is. It’s then that So flashes back to two years ago, when Choi had gone to Shinju to give him a new mask, which his father gifted him every year.
While trying it on, So had turned and accidentally caught sight of the king in his palanquin nearby. He’d come with the astronomer to see his son receive his gift, even if it was only from a distance. Seeing how So’s face just lit up at the sight of him is heartbreaking.
In the present, he lays his father’s funeral cloak over him. Only then does he tell Astronomer Choi to gather General Park and his men to prepare for the rebellion Wook and Yo have planned for tomorrow. The king wanted the throne to go to the crown prince, so now it’s their job to make sure that happens.
Queen Sinjeong is shocked to hear about her son’s involvement in such a plot, but of course, the evil queen threatens to kill So if he so much as breathes on Yo. “You expect him to live after committing treason?” he growls, pulling his arm from her grasp. “You have too much greed.”
Queen Sinjeong is the one to think on her feet, since she and Queen Sinmyeongsunseong now have a common goal. If they don’t figure something out fast, both their sons will die.
Woo-hee forces Baek-ah to make camp later that night, since his wound is paining him. Over a warm fire, Baek-ah tells her that he never intended to hide that he was a prince from her. At least she knows she has no room to be upset, since she hid things from him too.
But Baek-ah can’t help but wonder what their lives would have been like if he were only a musician, and if she were only a gisaeng. Woo-hee just tells him to rest by way of answer, since they’ll reach her hometown tomorrow. They both know that they’ll have to part ways then, and neither will have a reason to meet again.
Woo-hee’s much more adamant about this point than he is, so Baek-ah just resigns himself to that fact. “If we can’t see each other again, then… can I do as I like tonight?” he asks, before leaning in to kiss her.
Wook and Yo show up at the palace gates in full battle regalia, and though Yo is somewhat concerned that it’s so quiet, they know that most of the king’s forces are with the crown prince. Regardless of what happens, Wook only has one request of Yo: “If So tries to stop us, make sure to kill him.” Yo readily agrees.
They walk their massive forces through the gates, encountering So and Grand General Park with an army of their own. Wook has the decency to look guilty when he spots Su looking at him from behind the lines, but it’s too late now.
Yo proclaims that he’s come to free his mother, who’s been unjustly held in the king’s quarters without reason. Yo is the first to draw his sword, but Wook and So are the only ones to go at it, acting as their respective armies’ champions.
Wook is strong in his offense, leaving So to parry his blows. But when So takes the initiative to rush him, it sets Wook back more than a few paces—and from there, the blows only become more intense. The two men lock arms and swords in combat until they’re at a standstill, which is only broken when archers on the roof send arrows raining down on Yo’s forces.
More soldiers come rushing through the gate, but So’s got his eyes locked on Wook as he crouches into a battle stance. But the arrival of the soldiers signifies a much bigger arrival—they’ve come with Crown Prince Mu and Baek-ah. Busted!
Yo orders Wook to go into the king’s quarters while he holds their eldest brother off. Instead, Wook spins around and holds his sword to Yo’s neck. Yo calls his brother out for his betrayal, though Wook says that it can’t be considered betrayal when they weren’t even on the same side.
Indeed, Crown Prince Mu claims that it was Wook who told him all about Yo’s treasonous plan, which makes Wook look like the real hero here. So’s face twitches in minor annoyance, but it’s not like he can interject—everyone wins with Yo looking like the big bad.
Only then does Astronomer Choi officially announce that the king has died, and that he decreed before his death that Crown Prince Mu would become king. Wook shocks them all by being the first to raise a victory chant: “Manseh! Manseh! Manseh!”
So joins him in the chant, and soon, everyone in the courtyard does as well. Crown Prince Mu is the only one left standing as everything hits him at once—his father is dead, and now he’s king.
A white-haired woman stumbles out of the king’s quarters to hear the news… and it’s Queen Sinmyeongsunseong? Did she go white overnight?
The princes take turns seeing their dead father, with fourteenth prince Jung being particularly affected by the sight. Princess Yeonhwa only thinks to herself that she’ll make this nation her own.
Meanwhile, Soon-deok does her best to stop tenth prince Eun from attending the funeral, because she knows all too well what happens when a new king ascends the throne. If Eun stays quiet and keeps to himself, she says, then the king will surely leave them alone.
Eun refuses to take the armor she tries to give him, refusing to wear his wife’s armor just to save his own life. Soon-deok gets a little too excited at the thought of them dying together, which Eun quickly refutes. “Why should we die at all?” he wonders. “Let’s both live.” By that, he means live together, which puts his loving wife over the moon.
Su confronts Wook about having lied to her about being on Yo’s side, realizing that he meant to test her. He admits as much, but adds that she still went to So in the end. With wide eyes, she asks if he was planning on killing So, and he levels her with a look as he says that he fully intends on becoming king, so he may as well start getting rid of anyone who’ll stand in his way now.
She can’t believe what she’s just heard—Wook knew how much she suffered from being the cause of Court Lady Oh’s death, so what did he think would happen if he used her to kill So? “You have changed. You are not the person I once knew,” she says, stunned.
Wook throws that right back at her, claiming that she hid things from him, too. “I wanted you to tell me that the king had died. Didn’t you care if I would die or not?” But Su tells him she was on a special mission from the king, and that So had promised not to hurt him.
That gets to Wook most, but with desperation in her eyes, Su reminds him that he’d once told her that they could leave the palace and live in peace. Approaching him halting step by halting step, she tells him that she’s ready to do that now, and firmly believes that the new king will grant their request if Wook only asks. Oh no, Su.
Wook simply says that won’t be possible, which causes Su’s eyes to fill with tears. “You said you would become king for my sake. You’re lying to yourself,” she realizes. She steps away from him as she adds that she’ll keep her distance from him starting now.
Su takes a special kind of offense when Wook asks if this is because of So, asking him if he ever trusted her and her feelings for him even once. Confronted, all Wook can do is claim that he’ll make her return to him. “It won’t be easy,” Su replies.
Yo runs for his life, pursued by Wook, So, and a small army of soldiers. They corner him on that cliff you’ve definitely seen in a sageuk before, and left with no other option, Yo fights and kills many of his pursuers. So stops Wook from shooting him with an arrow, as that would be too humiliating for Yo.
As Yo continues to cut down the men who approach him, So finally comes forward to fight him directly. He’s incredibly quick and agile as he fights Yo with his sword sheathed, though his goal is to talk him off the ledge (literally and figuratively). When Yo proclaims that he won’t give up, So unsheathes his sword and plunges it into his older brother’s chest.
The force of the blow pushes Yo back toward the edge of the cliff. He seems to sense that So won’t kill him, so he knocks the sword away, only for it to be plunged once more into his belly. Even So looks surprised at what he’s just done, and he rushes forward to catch Yo as he goes tumbling over the cliff…
But he’s too late. A crash can be heard far below as So just stares forward in shock. Jung cries for his hyungnim, who’s presumably (and luckily) fallen into the water below, then turns from grief to anger as he stares accusingly up at So.
Jung is the one to inform their mother of the death of her son, but it takes a while for the white-haired queen to believe him. If she didn’t have it out for So before, you can bet she does now.
Su finds So keeping to himself with tears in his eyes, and he tells her that he thought she’d never forgive him if he went to her. “But you might be understanding,” he says with hope, then adds the fateful words, “I… stabbed my older brother.”
He cries, and Su reaches out a tentative hand to pat him comfortingly on the shoulder. Just that touch seems to do him in, and when his crying intensifies, Su just pulls him into an embrace and lets him cry his heart out.
COMMENTS
It’s still difficult to actually swallow the change in Wook, no matter how organic the show tries to make it feel. It’s not that I can’t buy that he’d do these things, only that it seems like such a giant shift for someone who was so upright and principled before. People change, of course, and maybe he was just waiting for an opportunity to let it all hang out—but call me old fashioned, because I miss the Wook of yore.
Now he’s seemingly more cunning than all his other brothers combined, which is already making him a force to be reckoned with. I knew he’d planned to flip the situation with Yo to make himself the hero, but I wasn’t expecting it to be so swift, so I was actually taken by surprise when Wook turned on him. He couldn’t have done it because he thought he would be king, but because he wanted to get rid of the competition and endear himself to the new king. I do wonder if he would’ve actually killed So had he been given the chance, and based off his conversation with Su, it seems he would have.
It certainly makes a difference that Wook now seems to be the more cold-blooded brother out of him and So, since he was ready to shoot Yo down without so much as a second thought. It was So who cared about maintaining Yo’s dignity, no matter how treasonous he’d behaved. And even before, it was So who promised Su that he would (to the best of his ability) try to not harm Wook, since he didn’t want his half-brother dead. Wook wouldn’t make the same promise to Su under any circumstance now. He’s made that much clear.
What worries me now is how So might change once future events start calling for him to do so. Compared to Wook, he’s much too trusting and good-hearted—but now that we’ve seen that side of So, it’d be absolutely devastating for him to turn to the dark side just to get his hands on the throne. I can’t quite get a read on how badly he wants the seat, since he tends to fluctuate between saying that he wants it and definitely will have it, to seemingly forgetting that he ever thought of it. Was he lying when he told Yeonhwa that he wanted to be king so he could win Su’s heart? I’m actually hoping that he was, because the alternative doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. When did he decide that being king was the way to Su’s heart? And when did he intend to act on that?
But this episode was a great showcase for Lee Jun-ki and the range of emotions he can portray with only silence. Whether it was that facial twitch of annoyance when Wook stepped up as the crown prince’s savior, or the look of horror and sadness when he stabbed his own brother, So gives us the most open window to his soul out of all the characters presented. Wook would probably come in second, since we can usually see what he’s feeling even if he makes an active effort to hide it.
Su still continues to be Su, but at least she took some action this hour, and realized that her future wasn’t with Wook. Her last conversation with him was as confusing as it was necessary for her to move on, though I can’t help but wonder if she actually meant what she said about being ready to run away with him. Why now, of all times? Did she actually believe that he was doing all this for her sake, and would she have truly run away with him had he agreed? How many men are going to profess to become king just for her?
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- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 8
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Tags: featured, Hong Jong-hyun, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
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101 pebble
October 5, 2016 at 4:43 AM
Unrequited and unfulfilled love begets hatred which in turn leads to skewed perception and screwed up priorities.
The evil queen has my complete sympathy, and so is Wook.
"Forget that you're a woman and remember that you're a mother."
This warning sounded so tragic. She was still yearning for the king's love even after his death. She loved him so deeply, but unfortunately her love was unrequited. This led to her hatred for Lady Oh, and turned her into a conniving, manipulative and greedy woman with the skewed perception that only the coveted throne could fill up the insatiable appetite of a heart void of love.
"The thing that worries me most now is the betrayal of one person."
Wook was obviously crestfallen when he said this. He loved Su, but unfortunately that love though was requited, could not be fulfilled. Their timing was always off at every crucial moment, such that they could only turn their backs toward each other. His guilt of not being able to protect Su made him edgy and he assumed that Su's love had wavered as she felt let down by him. Therefore, he wrongly perceived that Su was betraying him for the sake of Wang So when she was tight-lipped about the king's death. The throne had become his main priority, as it would take something as great as that to redeem his bruised ego and his lost love.
But what they did not foresee was, all was in vain as misguided priorities as an outlet for heartrending grievances will always lead to a tragic outcome.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 5, 2016 at 4:58 AM
+1000 Oh my goodness, SUCH a great analysis! I totally agree with everything you said, you are totally correct!
Misguided priorities, indeed. And also, poor decisions on how to pursue what their hearts desired.
Well said!
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TJ
October 5, 2016 at 5:39 AM
Very nice. I agree just didn't know how to word it so wonderfully. I don't believe either of our male leads are superficial characters. Wook did not go over to the "dark side". He's simply shifted his priorities. Very realistic in my opinion.
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Persian Rose
October 5, 2016 at 8:31 AM
@Pebble I vote for you to become a recaper! you analysis is great!
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:10 PM
Spot-on analysis, Pebble.
The thing with Wook was that, as Su said, he didn't ultimately trust her and the testing via false info/pretending to be in on the plot, was the final straw. I thought that was a great way to establish how done that relationship was.
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pebble
October 5, 2016 at 8:19 PM
Thanks for your comments, @PineappleGongzhu, @TJ, @Persian Rose and of course @pogo, my fellow sister in arms in the fangirling of jun-ki. :)
Though for most of this ep, I was busily swooning over LJK's great acting, I couldn't help but was struck by the tragic sorrow of both the evil queen and Wook. I think no one is evil or greedy to start with, all these traits are the results of interplay among several factors, including conditioning by circumstances, skewed perception and the susceptibility of individuals to external influence.
Before we jump on the bandwagon to bash Wook, we have to first understand why he chose to test Su via false pretense, as mentioned by @pogo. How we perceived others is a reflection of how we would react under the same situation. Why did Wook stopped trusting Su? It was probably because if Wook were in Su's position, and was let down by his lover while suffering in dire circumstances, he would have the tendency to retaliate and betray his lover. Similarly, if someone were to stand by him through the ordeal, like what Wang So did for Su, Wook would also jump ship. He then projected this onto Su, and believed that she would react similarly, i.e betrayed him for Wang So's sake.
To start with, Wook's character is more insecure, suspicious, and easily influenced by external factors, probably due to the political environment in the palace. Being the son of a concubine also put him at a great disadvantage. Comparatively, Wang So was thrown into the mire to fend for himself since young, so he was more sure-footed and he also didn't have to play mind games with those around him. Things were more clear-cut for him and his mantra was "a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye" and no in-between. As such, when he was treated with kindness, he reciprocated with kindness, and when he decided to love someone, he went all the way out, and nothing could deter him. This explains why he was such a clueless blockhead, when everyone knew about Wook-Su, he didn't have any inkling at all as he took things at face-value and tend to be more trusting.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:28 PM
It's crazy that Wook could even think that Hae Soo is "betraying" him: what could she possibly owe him, at this point? Who is he to question her loyalty, when he is the one who betrayed her, and let her down colossally, not just once, but many times?
What is relationship is there between Wook and Hae Soo to betray, at this point? Who are they to each other?
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:11 PM
yeah, I feel like part of what was fascinating about that scene was that it wasn't quite clear whether he was asking her that question in the capacity of her former lover (whom he'd abandoned ages ago) or as a prince asking a water maid.
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pebble
October 6, 2016 at 1:56 AM
Exactly, his love for Su was quite delusional, everything came from his perception and from his perspective.
He viewed himself as a victim of circumstances, he didn't "betray" Su at heart, but was forced by circumstances to turn his back on Su. As such, he didn't blame himself but his "powerlessness".
In the last ep, he made an attempt to explain to Su he couldn't come to her rescue because he was useless, and asked if Su hated him for that. However, Su gave him an indirect response by asking if he missed her instead, to which he replied he missed her every day and longed for her every moment. Su then gave him the affirmation that it was all she needed.
This gave him hope that his love could be redeemed, so long as he had the power to protect it. He was so deluded by his misguided priority that when Su pleaded with him to leave the palace with her, he turned her down flatly as his dignity as a man was further compromised by Su having to ask Wang So to promise not to kill him. His bruised ego further reinforced his skewed perception that power was the ultimate solution to all his woes.
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pollyanna
October 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM
Comment was deleted
pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:09 PM
Oh definitely, Wook's character and the way KHN plays him are way more complex than "you did this, now you suck!!!".
I can certainly see how Wook projected his own insecurities about his previous actions and So and Su's mutual support, onto Su in this situation - and I can also understand his rationale for his previous actions and his motivation to protect a family who'd already been in a vulnerable position once before.
It's just that he doesn't take that further step in understanding how his own actions or lack thereof towards Su, form the background of why she has such trust in So where she doesn't in him, and instead interprets Su's allegiance to Taejo and later So, as a personal betrayal of him, when she really didn't owe him the truth in the face of that warning.
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Jamie Opso
October 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM
In Wook's mind, he has Reasons for what he does (or doesn't do): and in his mind, the only options Hae Soo has are to support him blindly no matter what (never mind her own thoughts/feelings/beliefs/ethics), or to leave ("betray") him for another man she's in love with.
Yup, I've known men like that. :/
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102 BROWNCOAT_78
October 5, 2016 at 4:48 AM
This has probably already been said by a commenter somewhere, but oh my there are just too many comments to read them all - I tried. However I have to get these 2 things off my chest because it's bothering me:
1. About the newly white haired queen: I think the more likely scenario is she just took off her wig because she was in mourning. Those elaborate hairstyles the queens wore were wigs. She was distraught and in mourning so the wig came off. Her real hair was already gray; it didn't do that overnight.
2. The scene with Yeon Hwa and So in the woods: Others have said that it seems like So says here that he wants to be king to get Hae Soo's heart which we all know as viewers is utterly stupid. But I don't interpret this scene that way at all. It seems to me he is being purely hypothetical, just using Yeon Hwa's question to say how much he loves Soo and to what lengths he would go to win her heart (not force it, win it). That is why this scene is juxtaposed with the Soo-Wook scene that way.
So doesn't care about being king at all, and doesn't think that is a way to gain Soo's heart either. He is playing along with Yeon Hwa. The only thing in the whole world he wants is Soo's heart, so he asks Yeon Hwa (and it's a bit rhetorical too), would being king get me that? IF that were the case, I would do it (because he would do anything, even that). When he says he wants to be king, I don't think he is really saying he wants to be king, but rather just using Yeon Hwa's framing of the conversation that to get Soo he would do anything, even the thing he really doesn't want. BUT I never saw it as him saying he actually believes being king would win her heart. It's just hypothetical.
It juxtaposes nicely with the Soo-Wook scene because Wook is trying to use Soo as AN EXCUSE to become king, when he really just wants to be become king and is trying to fool himself and Soo into believing it's for her sake. It's the opposite of what So is saying. In addition, Wook just wants to use his power then to force her to be with him; whereas So wants to win her heart, not force it.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 5, 2016 at 4:59 AM
+1000 Totally agree with you in all points, especially about the juxtaposition between WW and WS!
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kyline23
October 5, 2016 at 8:24 AM
I so agree on this too.
It is indeed hypothetical. And we always knew how So can use the words of whom he's conversing with and play with it. He only slaps YH right in her face that he will do anything for Su. And i believe So wanted a love freely given not forced.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:11 PM
Yeah, that's how I saw it too - So was being hpothetical, not actually speaking in the belief that ascending to the throne would win Su's heart.
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Rachel
October 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM
+10000000
This should be pinned at the top of this thread. Two of the biggest discussions in this thread and you've clarified it so well.
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 10:53 PM
I totally agree with u.
In my opinion So was just trying to explain to Yeon Hwa that being King isn't all its cracked up to be. There are things in life u desperately want but cant get even if u become the king so what all this hassle.
For So love and loyalty means more than power and position. He seemed really respectful to Ji Mong and Court Lady Oh.
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Puni
October 6, 2016 at 10:30 AM
Completely agree with your analysis of the So versus Wook exclamations to be king. So wants to win Soo ultimately and Wook wants power.
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103 Husna chan
October 5, 2016 at 4:49 AM
Then again, evil people usually have many lives...Maybe Yo is not going to be really dead after all and was saved by someone and later will come back to life in the few last episodes hewhew who knows
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Sunny
October 5, 2016 at 9:11 PM
He's a yo-yo afterall, he'll just bounce back to life from the cliff
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mary
October 6, 2016 at 2:20 AM
LMAO
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YY
October 6, 2016 at 2:58 AM
If he clung to the cliffs and survived, would that mean he is a cliffhanger?
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justpassingby
October 8, 2016 at 4:22 AM
Perhaps his eyeliner wings flew him to safety.
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Jamie Opso
October 8, 2016 at 11:04 AM
LOL
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104 ana
October 5, 2016 at 4:57 AM
did you see Wang Yo posted something on his instagram, I laughed so hard...haha
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LYF
October 5, 2016 at 5:05 AM
That guy is a fan of his own fanart and I love it!!
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chocopieb
October 5, 2016 at 5:39 AM
Behind the scene yo and wook are just too cute!!!!!!! Can we please have em release ALL behind clips?? ><
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105 selene
October 5, 2016 at 5:04 AM
Wook failed to understand Soo at all. He was expecting Soo to ignore her conscience and logic by hiding the treason plan. He should have known that it wasn’t Soo to do such thing. When Soo betrayed him, all he could see was Soo betrayed him for So. Not even once he tried to understand that Soo did it for her own conscience. Not even once he wanted to admit that what he did was actually wrong and negating Soo’s conscience too much.
He also failed to see how much pain Soo had suffered from Lady Oh’s death. Soo had enough of people sacrificing for her, and now that he tried to use Soo to kill So, basically he would made So died because of her. It was very inconsiderate.
Then he turned the focus on himself. He said that by telling So, Soo didn’t care if he died or not. It was always about himself. He failed to see that Soo’s pleading to So showed how much she cared for him.
Finally he failed the final test from Soo. Now that his family wasn’t on stake anymore, the new king would surely grant them freedom if they got married. If he really did all for the sake of Soo, he would have no reason to not fulfill her wish. But he simply proved that his words to her earlier was ultimate BS.
Even when Soo kept distance from him, all he could think of was it was because of So. He wasn’t aware that by doing so, he hurt Soo’s feeling deeply for indirectly accusing her unfaithful. She was trying her best to be loyal to him, after all he had done for her, but apparently he couldn’t appreciate it.
Until the end, he failed to see that the reason he lost Soo was because of his own deeds, not because of someone else.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:15 PM
The trouble with Wook here is that while he had principles, he failed to see that Su had her own too - and ends up mistaking Su's actions motivated by those principles as being a reason for romantic jealousy (pulling away from her in prison after she'd been tortured just for asking about So who'd just been poisoned, and now he sees her going straight to So with the truth as a personal betrayal of him too).
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 7:09 PM
On the flip side, Su's actions are every bit the betrayal Wook believes them to be. Just looking at it from his point of view: she doesn't tell him the king's dead, which she would have if she trusted him, and she tells So almost immediately of the plot, which would very likely lead to Wook's death for treason, never mind what promises of his safety So gives her. That she even asked So for his safety is a form of betrayal, showing she believes So the stronger man. Whatever her reasons, or his reasons, Su on the face of it betrays him in this situation, showing he can trust her as little as she can trust him. When she asks if he has ever trusted her, the answer should be no, be because you are stupidly naiive Su, and you've just proven that by thinking So could have saved me in a treason situation.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:37 PM
"she doesn’t tell him the king’s dead, which she would have if she trusted him"
But Wook isn't trustworthy, that's the point. He's plotting to murder the king, his father.
I'll agree with you that Hae Soo is naive to think that, were So to spare Wook's life in combat, Wook would survive treason charges.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 9:22 PM
Actually, at least in this case, he wasn't plotting to murder the king. He was plotting to implicate Yo in a treasonous rebellion and his plan succeeded. If Hae Soo had told him the king was dead, he might well have told her that he had already contacted Mu. Instead, because he can tell she's withholding the information, he tells her of the rebellion to test her. And she fails.
Distrust cuts both ways. I'm not on Wook's "side", but I know what's due to the person you love, which is honesty, and neither one of them was honest.
swati
October 5, 2016 at 10:57 PM
She did seem about to tell him but before that he asked "If the King is Dead" which the king had just told her people who want throne would ask.
Thus she didn't tell him.
pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:00 PM
@Barbrey - no, he wasn't plotting to murder the king this time - but the warning that sounded for Su was that he did have his eyes on the throne.
He gave himself away with the telltale question, and I think that's what made Su realise just how much his priorities had shifted - and they had, even if he wasn't actually planning to take the expected approach (i.e. treason) to ascending the throne.
Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:14 PM
@pogo - Agreed, but he doesn't know that's why she hesitated, then lied. I'm trying to separate what we as the audience know from what Wook knows. All he knows is she just lied to him, and when he tests her loyalty subsequent to that lie, she fails the test. So yes, he would see that as a betrayal.
pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:26 PM
@Barbrey - yeah, it's something of a mutual misunderstanding, deliberately fed by both sides to some extent.
Wook knows she's lying to him, Su knows he's got his eyes on the throne, and the distrust proceeds accordingly even if their true motivations are hidden from each other.
Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:30 PM
@ pogo
Exactly.
Jamie Opso
October 6, 2016 at 10:22 PM
"Distrust cuts both ways. I’m not on Wook’s “side”, but I know what’s due to the person you love, which is honesty, and neither one of them was honest."
Point taken, Barbrey: but I still maintain that Hae Soo owed nothing to a man who professed to love her and want to protect her, but still let her take the fall for his sister's crime, destroyed evidence that would have exonerated her, and would have let her hang. (If not for Wang So's intervention and the king's decree, she would have died.)
What was due to Hae Soo from Wook? That enormous betrayal of his trumps all the rest of it.
Barbrey
October 6, 2016 at 10:59 PM
But Hae Su doesn't know he did all that. Once again, I'm not trying to get at what we see, but what they see.
Jamie Opso
October 7, 2016 at 10:16 AM
I understand what you're saying, Barbrey. It's subtle and complicated, and I really appreciate you sharing your insights.
I think what I'm trying to get is understanding where Wook is coming from, after his original series of betrayals of Hae Soo, which is really difficult for me.
If you have intentionally done something unbelievably awful to someone else who is an innocent party (without them even knowing), are you subsequently justified in feeling betrayed by any loss of loyalty (for any reason) in them to you?
Separately, Hae Soo doesn't know Wook had a hand in her being sent to the hangman's noose; but she does know he chose to vanish from her life afterward.
For me, that's enough cause not to trust him. Maybe it was enough cause for her, too, on a subconscious level; or maybe her distrust was only triggered by Wook's question, which the king had warned her about. I'm not sure.
I feel like a lot happened in this episode during exchanges between characters, that was subtle, fleeting, and yet really important. I am so grateful to all the Beanies explaining their understanding of what happened, and helping everyone tease out the meanings!
Barbrey
October 7, 2016 at 11:25 PM
@jamie
I agree with everything you're saying. But he thinks or thought she still loved him despite him abandoning her and he would have a chance to make it up to her. He's wrong.
If she still loved him, she would have told him the king was dead, just as she did with So, forget about some stupid test a king she shouldn't-give-a-shit-about just told her to give.
If she still loved him and was loyal to him, she wouldn't have told So about the rebellion.
So this IS a betrayal, but only to him because he believed she still loved him. So did she, I expect, but her actions speak otherwise.
pineapplegongzhu
October 8, 2016 at 8:04 AM
@Barbrey, @Jamie
I think you guys mentioned three things in Hae Su that are at play here (1) her own personal integrity, (2) her really BIG heart (that is compassionate towards emo-wolf princes, loyal to disloyal prince charmings, and kind to dying kings who had her tortured), and (3) her trust
My two cents is (A) there is a misunderstanding to the nature of their relationship and (B) there is a disconnect in Hae Su between love and trust.
Obviously, Wook thought they were still in a relationship together, and therefore expected Hae Su to remain loyal to him, even if it meant (per Barbrey) king’s litmus test be damned. In fact, if she was in love/trusted him, there would be no “breach” in telling him the king is dead because it wouldn’t have occurred to her that he was on an opposing side. By contrast, Hae Su did NOT think they were in a relationship. She still loves him, but is not IN love with him. She is loyal to him in her concern for his well-being (asking Wang So to spare Wook), but she doesn’t trust him. And when he failed the litmus test, it just confirmed what in her heart she already knew.
Wook has already broken faith with her on several occasions. Yet, like Barbrey said, he still believes he is entitled to her loyalty. This would also explain his jealousy. Envy is when you want something someone else has - but jealousy is when you think someone is trying to steal something that rightfully belongs to you. In Wook’s mind, Hae Su is pledged to him (i.e. bracelet). This is why he becomes the jealous lover whenever Wang So seems to interfere in their relationship. Although Wook feels awful about failing Hae Su, when he walked away after their nighttime rendezvous, I got the distinct feeling he was asking her to “wait for him” to come through for her. He still loved her, and assumed they were still together.
But, for Hae Su, his abandonment of her for a year was, in her mind, a betrayal and a break. She even told him not to trouble himself to trying to help her. She had the closure she needed after he said he did miss her (i.e. his love was genuine). I definitely understand your point of view, Barbrey, “if you love the person….[fill in the blank]”; yet, I think this is where Wook and Hae Su’s relationship breaks down. She does love him, but she doesn’t trust him.
I’m not sure if asking Wang So to spare Wook is a betrayal so much as a vote of no confidence. Of course, that would pain Wook since he doesn't know what Hae Su knows.
And yes, the fact that Hae Su didn’t even WAIT to see if Wang So would ask if the king is dead, but just told him immediately shows us where her trust truly lies. IT’S JUST SO ROMANTIC!!! (sorry, couldn’t help fangirling a bit).
Jamie Opso
October 8, 2016 at 11:01 AM
@Barbrey, @PineappleGongzhu
Barbrey: “…he thinks or thought she still loved him despite him abandoning her and he would have a chance to make it up to her….So this IS a betrayal, but only to him because he believed she still loved him. So did she, I expect, but her actions speak otherwise.”
PineappleGongzhu:“…he still believes he is entitled to her loyalty. This would also explain his jealousy. Envy is when you want something someone else has – but jealousy is when you think someone is trying to steal something that rightfully belongs to you. In Wook’s mind, Hae Su is pledged to him (i.e. bracelet)….and [he] assumed they were still together.”
THAT's the understanding of Wook I was missing! THANK YOU BOTH so much!
Also, I, too, wondered why Hae Soo should care at all about what Taejo wants--why should she be loyal to him? Why are his interests suddenly hers? But PineappleGongzhu explained that her natural compassion and kindness lead her to be “kind to dying kings who had her tortured,” and that's a believable extension of her character. (That and not wanting to see any bloodshed between brothers: she would want to see an orderly succession of the lawful Crown Prince Mu.) Yay for insightful Beanies!
Jamie Opso
October 8, 2016 at 11:03 AM
@Barbrey, @PineappleGongzhu
P.S. Both your full comments are GOLD.
106 JiaYou
October 5, 2016 at 5:15 AM
Is there a rule in battle where at least a representative from both warring side battle it out first? And only after a few minutes do the armies start a real battle?
Also, it's refreshing to see the villain defeating and fighting off all that soldiers. Lmao. Because we can always see heroes in the dramas seem to possess such superhuman powers and never dies in battle at all.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:38 PM
Yup, that's how dance battles evolved. :)
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107 kthln
October 5, 2016 at 5:49 AM
whew!!! this episode flowed well like episode 11. Now, we all have to hold our collective breath and wait till Monday to see whether this will be replicated in the coming episodes. Because you love this drama so much, when you get a good episode, you jump for joy and get your hopes up only to be let down by a huge bucket of ice cold water by the next episode. Still you stick with it because you are curious, and most important of all for Jun Ki oppa and Haneul :)
I wish So and Su will go far away and live in peace, and leave the game of thrones to people like Wook and Yeonwha who are cunning, ruthless and politically very savvy (which is very fascinating to watch). A part of me wants Wook to be king because he has the intelligence, and despite his turn over to the dark side in the last few episodes, I don't think he is completely devoid of any humanity. Therefore, he will make a good king for the Goryeo times where you have to constantly out manoeuvre your enemies. Plus in this way, So and Su can concentrate on loving one another and not constantly worry about people gunning for them.
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 10:59 PM
Well if Wook is the King then he wont just let Su-So go. Even in the fake rebellion he wanted So dead.
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108 Kang Maru
October 5, 2016 at 5:54 AM
WHAT KIND OF SORCERY HAS HAPPENED TO QUEEN YOO'S HAIR?!? HAHAHA I WAS LIKE "WHAT THE HECK, STAYING IN THE KING'S QUARTERS MADE YOUR HAIR WHITE?! HAHA" black magic i supposed HAHAHA
Deyymmm was the fight scene between Wook and So. I can finally say that may WookSo ship has sank huhuhu T^T. I bid you farewell!
Wook you're so sly bae, Hands down to Kang Ha Neul's acting for being a bad guy in this drama. I truly missed his "boy next door image" in the first few episodes.
P.S. I THINK JUNG LIKES HAE SOO, HE MENTIONED TO SOO THAT HE WILL NOT CONSIDER HER A SISTER ANYMORE!! i was like "What the?!?!? Another prince that loves hae soo. Is this another ship"?
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109 dui
October 5, 2016 at 6:02 AM
King only trusted and cared about CP and So. I wonder if it was solely based on the knowledge that they’re the king-to-be or he really loved them more than others. We know CP is his favorite because he is both son and comrade. But for So? Why the king cared so much for him, enough to travel to Shinju every year to give him the mask and even assign a general to train him? I thought the king just merely prepared him to be a shield for CP but after seeing through So’s memory I’m not sure. The king really cared for So as a son, more than just as a shield. But why him? Out of the other sons?
The king told Soo to find CP by herself and that she couldn’t trust anyone. I’m surprised (and glad) she had enough sense to not trust even Wook. And I’m even more surprised that she decided she could trust So. That had to come from her last conversation with So regarding the throne matter. She wasn’t sure about other princes, but she knew that if there was a prince who didn’t have his eyes set on the throne, that would definitely be So.
I love that even without any command, So’s first action was to find and bring back CP. He’s the real and the only loyal person, both to the king and the CP. And how quick and clever he was to link Yeonhwa’s action to Wook’s armor to king’s assassination plan. But here he still thought of Yeonhwa as merely Wook’s tool. I really want him to know the real Yeonhwa so he wouldn’t marry her later. Please show, you’ve got that creative license.
So knew very well about Wook’s evil king’s assassination plan, yet he told Soo nothing about it. He knew how Wook meant so much for her (as a relative tho) and didn’t wanna hurt her feeling by speaking badly of Wook. How considerate and understanding he was to her.
Yeonhwa was quite sly. She supported her brother in front of him, but she tried to persuade So to become a king behind. I think she had realized how dangerous her brother was to the point he wouldn’t care to sacrifice her if needed, and now she tried to save herself by trying to marry So and making him a king.
We have been amazed by Yeonhwa before but here we see that she is nothing compared to Wook. Her suggestion for Wook to attack the palace and alter king’s decree was reckless. Did she really think that Yo would do nothing about it? Haha. Yo, Yeonhwa and Queen SMS are just the appetizer. The main course is definitely Wook.
So and Baekah were on the same page of annoyance when Wook appeared to be loyal to the CP. Bromance FTW.
That beautiful last scene. I watched by streaming and it was lagging. So one moment So was still sitting with his teary eyes, the screen lagged, then his head was already on Soo’s shoulder. LOL that escalated quickly. I love the way Soo put her hand on his head and just held it there to rest on her shoulder. She was the first person ever to embrace him and I bet poor boy had never had a chance to pour out all of his tears. So it was sad but kinda the moment of relief for So to cry his...
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Maui
October 5, 2016 at 8:29 AM
Dui, I love your analysis....
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 4:59 PM
Like the analysis Dui. It seems that the king knew, the day his wife scarred So, that So was also destined to be a king. I'd almost like more to that story. Did Queen Yoo know the King valued So of all her sons because of that destiny, and that' why she chose him for her revenge on him? And is that why the king sent So away, knowing he could be Mu's greatest foe because both were destined to be kings? Would he be spear or shield, as the king said? If he stayed in the palace, no doubt Yoo would have molded him as a spear thrust at Mu's heart, just as she has done with Yo. You start to see the glimmering of Taejo's plan for So, knowing all this. Send him away to keep Mu safe, but at the same time give him the harsh training he needs to become an effective king when that time arrives, then watch him closely to make sure when he returns he will not be a weapon against Mu but an ally or shield for him till Mu dies naturally or at the hands of someone other than So. And then So, as predicted, will be strong enough to reign as king.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:44 PM
Wow, Barbrey...your analysis is amazing!
I'd love to know if Taejo ever wanted to be a good king to his people, rather than a chess grandmaster manipulating and using his offspring as pawns. Any higher ambition or vision than to be the warlord who stays on top of the heap the longest, making sure his strongest, toughest, smartest son succeeds him?
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 11:05 PM
Well the King loved So more than his other sons because So ended up having that Scar due to his psycho mother and the king's desire to protect throne more than his kids. Then he was cast aside n the king knew how he was treated by the Kangs. The training by general must have been king's way to equipping his son to deal with his troubles.
Also despite everything and all the hurting his parents did So seemed to only want there love and turned out brilliant warrior which i think King must be respecting, being a warrior himself.
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110 minipastel
October 5, 2016 at 7:36 AM
I think it is really interesting that HeadsNo2 had brought up So's motivation to become a king. As mentioned, did So wanted to become a king as a way to win Hae-Soo's heart or So wanted to become a king so that Hae-Soo will start to love him? And when did he decided to become a King then?
IMO, in a way, So wanted to become a king because he wants to win Hae-So's heart and made Hae-Soo to love him. In his logic, if he become to the king, he would become 1) the ultimate figurehead and women (in this case he only wants Hae-Soo) will naturally fall for him 2) Can have any women he wants (in this case Hae-Soo again) and 3) He wants to become the king so that he can make decisions to protect Hae-Soo after seeing that the King can treat Hae-Soo badly because the King wanted to (as evidenced by sending Hae-Soo to become a laundry maid). So loved and cared for Hae-Soo sooooooooooooo much that he couldn't bear to see Hae-Soo suffer. In some sense, So is motivated by Soo to become a king. It's all about Soo. Hence, he couldn't be lying that he wants to become a king because he wants Soo's heart. He decided to be a King because he wants to protect his person, Hae-Soo, after Hae-Soo was transferred to be a laundry maid.
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111 shelly
October 5, 2016 at 7:37 AM
so wants the throne for 1. getting soo (cause he imagines a king will do anything he wants, and most importantly, he cares nothing for the clans - yet), and 2. in order for wang yo NOT to get it. or if he does get it, to take it away from him.
why? well, yo has always been treacherous. mom and you have always had it in for so, ready to throw him under the bus at every chance. but now, it's clear - it's for survival. if yo comes back after mu dies - and he will die rather fast, his reign wasn't so long - then yo will definitely remember who stood by him (mom and maybe jung, and also maybe eun) and who stabbed him (literally) in the back - so with a sword, wook with his actions.
they're both going to gang up together to get rid of yo, and then it's all up for grabs. i wonder how eun's father-in-law the general, now all for mu and also a strong supporter for so, will end up maybe an enemy (he does love his daughter, and if so kills her and eun, he'd probably switch sides. but the WHEN of that act is the question...) did general park ever change sides? was that the treason that had so kill eun and his wife? (that if the future goes according to soo.)
baek-ah... he was the one who got mu back in time, all hurt - poor baby, bad, bad woo-hee!! - and the first one to swear allegiance is wook?! the heck!! and only then so, who was ready to defend mu's throne with his life, against the same-self wook!! mu is such a klutz from time to time (read: most of the time) i wouldn't wonder if he DID completely trust wook, too. if he dies soon, it'll be from too much lack of political savvy, you just watch.
as for wook. boy, he only waited for a chance... as long as the king was okay, he was plenty happy with his lot - said he. he even had time for a smouldering romance with his wife's cousin, lol. then, the king dies and leaves the throne to the one son who doesn't have much back-up if the other sons don't stand with him - those are so and baek-ah so far, jung's probably going to oppose him, eun will decide according to the direction of the winds lol and 9th will be there to support whoever is the master that moment, lol - and wook suddenly sees an open route to the throne... he might be cunning, but his power is still small.
yet... what if queen 1 and queen 2 - believing yo dead, or maybe expecting him back (i think he'll let evil queen know soon enough) - prepare wook to take the throne from mu? then mu, baek-ah and so are isolated partially...
though i do credit so with being able to realize how things stand and maybe decide for real to get involved in the game of thrones lol.
as for soo... yeah, taejo definitely didn't have ANYone else to send for mu. not even jimong. there were no soldiers, generals, other serving girls, etc... just soo. okay. and she still has to have him spell it out for her who to tell and who not to tell, lol. she's like a sounding board, imho. will she even pretend to take a hand in this story...
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112 Nayour
October 5, 2016 at 7:39 AM
Am I like the only person who liked the scene shifting between So and Wook to parallel their current motivation and ambition? Love the parallels this show does really.
Also Wang Wook's need to appear flawless still - just chilling. So good Kang Ha Neul, so good.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:17 PM
No, you're not the only one who liked that scene shifting - I thought it was a good way to compare and contrast So and Wook's attitudes to power and the pursuit of it.
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jomo143
October 5, 2016 at 4:03 PM
me, too, I liked it.
I liked the parallel questions and perpendicular responses.
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IvoryLight
October 6, 2016 at 12:31 AM
I was a fan too. I thought it was nice way to keep the momentum going rather than having two conversations back to back plus we got to see the differences between the two Princes attitudes and motivations to getting the throne.
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113 Hanna Banana
October 5, 2016 at 7:40 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Baek Ah and Wohee did more than just kissing ?? just me?
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chattynat
October 5, 2016 at 7:54 AM
Lol, pretty sure they went all the way!
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Maui
October 5, 2016 at 8:35 AM
Agree...I think there will be consequences to their one night together in the future....
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 10:26 PM
I don't know all the ins and outs of it (kumoiwa, where are you), but it's Baek Ah's line from which most of the dynasty continues - and from an illegitimate son at that. A few heirs die early. It goes
Wang So to Wang So's son, then to Wook's son, and then to this illegitimate son of Baek Ah's backed by a powerful general. From that son, Taejo's line continues for half a century.
All this to say, you could be right, and an heir to the throne has just been procreated in this scene.
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kumoiwa
October 6, 2016 at 12:12 AM
I am here!!
You're right, the line of succession is Baek-ah's, but his son was born many, many years later to Gyeongjong's concubine (who coincidentally is from the Hwangbo clan, which makes her his niece because she's also Wook's daughter and like wow this incest goes deep).
I don't think that this child, if Baek-ah and Woo-hee did have one, would be Hyeonjong in any case since everything doesn't add up, but it'd be nice for them to have a child that was born because of love, given their doomed relationship.
kumoiwa
October 6, 2016 at 12:26 AM
Oh and here's this line of succession I managed to find:
Taejo - Hyejong (Mu) - Jeongjong (Yo) - Gwangjong (So) - Gyeongjong (So's son) - Seongjong (Wook's son) - Mokjong (Gyeongjong's eldest son aka So's grandson) - Hyeonjong (Baek-ah's illegitimate son)
And @Barbrey you're right--Gyeongjong, Seongjong, and Mokjong all didn't seem to have any sons, which is why I guess they had to pass the throne to the illegitimate Hyeonjong.
Barbrey
October 6, 2016 at 2:08 PM
@kumoiwa
Thanks for getting this all straight! I do think we might be meant to see Woo Hee in place of that concubine even still. The drama has played around a lot with the side princes and king's relationships a lot while still keeping loosely to history.
One theme that emerges time and again is that of the 'other' woman, whether she's the loved mistress or the unloved wife. So interesting that that's the triangle we see from the beginning - infidelity - and each relationship in Goryeo is examined from the perspective of each member of that triangle. What's more Su seems to be inhabiting the role of all three. First as the betrayed 'wife' in modern day, then as the betraying friend to Lady Hae with Wook, now the betraying lover to Wook because of So. She tries to do what's right in all circumstances but the drama seems to be asking us to understand that these roles are not black and white. It goes back to what Su says to So - you might not be forgiven but I understand you. The drama asks us to understand even if we can't forgive. We're even asked to understand Queen Yoo and the suffering her unrequited love caused her!
YY
October 5, 2016 at 8:31 AM
Definitely. He played the fiddle while she danced with swords from her stash. Then he drew pictures of her dancing with swords. That should be it, I guess.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 9:12 AM
Haha! I love it!
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:17 PM
*snicker*
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vanity0326
October 6, 2016 at 5:31 AM
*blushes*
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 3:25 PM
Wonder how he managed more, with a stab wound and all.
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YY
October 5, 2016 at 8:27 PM
She dipped her sword in the campfire and cauterized the wound.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:46 PM
That sounds almost sexual. :O
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:36 PM
lol I really hope she didn't give him more than a flesh wound then (doesn't look like she did).
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114 SilverEyeliner
October 5, 2016 at 8:27 AM
While I totally love Lee Joon Gi in this drama and all his expressions of emotions... I just can't like Hae Soo. After so one year of being betrayed, she's still mooning over Wook and didn't firmly reject him. Saying, "it'll be hard for you to win me back" is not the same as saying, "no matter what you do, you've lost me, Wook. You've totally changed and screwed your one last chance with me". That would have been final.
Even her reaction towards Wookie's betrayal was not realistic. Usually people would feel sad, upset, angry, denial and finally acceptance. She didn't even get angry with him for abandoning her.
One big flaw with the way her character is written is her passivity. For someone from the 21st century, couldn't she have chatted to the princes or to Wang So about equality, human rights, democratic rule... something that could actually change people's lives for the better? Wang so could have actually listened and implemented certain things when he's king.
After kneeling the rain to protest against Lady Oh's death and the having the protest fall on deaf ears, didn't she feel the unfairness and tyranny of one man's rule? So much power in one person's hands. How wrong was that? I would have been extremely angry and would have tried to find a way to improve the system even if it meant making Wang So rebel against the king. After all, there must have been a reason to be sent back in time. Not to just accept defeat, do nothing but wash clothes and moon over Wookie. *justice for Lady Oh who died saving me*
I wouldn't have even listened to the king's advice to just stand by the sidelines and do nothing. What does the old man know anyway? Nothing. I'm here. I might as well change something. Even if it gets worse or heads roll, at least I did my best.
Hae soo is just merely existing. What did she actually want? Wang so to be king but not to kill his brothers? Wang so to not be king? If it's the former, she could just opt to stay close to him and be there for him. He might listen to her advice. If it's d latter, just marry him like he suggested and get out from the palace.
*Soo rant over* Sorry, can't help it. I need a heroine who actually has a backbone and a purpose.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:21 PM
couldn’t she have chatted to the princes or to Wang So about equality, human rights, democratic rule
......sure, tell the royal family who have the power to go 'off with your head!' at a whim alllllll about this nice way of political organisation you know that'll make them obsolete. In an era where even an immature junior prince refuses to be called 'the best' by his friend because that's the king's prerogative.
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Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:19 AM
She could not have talked to the princes about equality or democratic rule. They were not acceptable ideas in those days. Commoners' lives had little to no value in the ancient times. The king will just cut off your head if he feels that your talk of equality and democracy is a threat to his throne and power.
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SilverEyeliner
October 6, 2016 at 3:58 AM
All right, maybe not democratic rule then. >.< lol
but she could speak about her impossible 'dream' for the future to Wang So.. one where everyone is treated nicely, fairly, etc. and sum it off as wishful thinking or would that be considered treason too? :P Much like how Jimong talk about his airplanes..or be subtle about it.
I actually thought Hae Soo was awesome in episode 2 where she told Wang So off. I'm just kind of disappointed with the scriptwriter especially for her character progression. Most kdrama scriptwriters start off the heroine as strong and unique but then midpoint, they get disappointingly reduced to damsels in distress. Joseon Gunman is one example.
Granted this episode is much better than 12 and 8. Hopefully they'll put the spunk back in her.
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 6:34 AM
btw Su did speak of that future world where everyone was equal..... to Baek-ah while they were drunk. And then said (quite rightly) that he'd have to wait a thousand years for that world. And even then, Baek-ah shushed her because guess what, treason. I'm not surprised she never spoke of it again.
The heroine of Joseon Gunman was a tropey, immature annoyance. In terms of strong female characters, the real deal there was the second lead played by Jeon Hye-bin. What a woman (and what an actress).
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SilverEyeliner
October 6, 2016 at 6:46 AM
@pogo
Lol. I totally agree with you about the second lead in Joseon Gunman. She was awesome. :D
Life in Goryeo sucks. >.< Can't even do anything. :'(
pollyanna
October 6, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Comment was deleted
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115 seyhan
October 5, 2016 at 8:28 AM
The scene Ws had with YH is very badly cut that it comes off as he decides to become a king all of a sudden. On the contrary, he was scoffing at what YH was suggesting: "Oh so you say this king business grants you eeeeeeeevrything you want, can i have my loved one's heart too? Then I will aim for the throne, why not?" He was just kidding, so to speak.
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rentenmann
October 5, 2016 at 9:11 AM
The sarchasm (pun intended) is deep in that conversation.
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116 Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 8:28 AM
Man that foreshadowing was strong in this episode. When the King died and thought of Court lady Oh and uttered her name before he died... it was heartbreaking. I kind of feel like it is foreshadowing for So and Soo...
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Maui
October 5, 2016 at 8:38 AM
Me too...I think there's another foreshadowing moment when Soo tells So standing infront of the throne, The King sacrificed Lady Oh for that seat, and you too your majesty....So turns to her and then she adds after a pause, you too will fight your brothers tomorrow.....
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 10:40 AM
I noticed that too! I think she's worried he'll abandon her too, but I don't think he will. He views Soo more than anything else, even the throne.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:22 PM
NOOOOOOOO
/prays for an ending where everyone doesn't die
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Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:22 AM
Oh my goodness! Why do you say depressing things?? :(
I want this story to move to modern era before either of them really dies. Maybe they can just show a very sick Su and then a time skip where So's reign ends. And then modern time. Incoherent but I don't want to cry :(
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Napkiin
October 6, 2016 at 10:59 AM
I'm preparing for the worst :'(
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117 rentenmann
October 5, 2016 at 8:36 AM
One chair to rule them all...
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YY
October 5, 2016 at 8:41 AM
Wang So to slay them all...
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seyhan
October 5, 2016 at 8:44 AM
One Hae Soo to bind them..
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rentenmann
October 5, 2016 at 9:19 AM
\(^0^)/ Y'all are awesome.* In Kartman voice* I love you guys.
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mary
October 8, 2016 at 8:53 AM
Wang So to face them all
And with his beauty blind them.
In the land of Goryeo where Su's mentors die.
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pogo
October 10, 2016 at 1:42 AM
oh my god I'm dead
please, PLEASE can this be in next week's Beans of Wisdom? Please?!
pogo
October 10, 2016 at 1:43 AM
(and yes, that's regardless of the paradox of picking your own comment for BoW :) )
mary
October 16, 2016 at 1:21 AM
kekeke I'm glad it made you laugh, pogo :D
Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:24 AM
LOL
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118 Aphelion
October 5, 2016 at 8:39 AM
The capping at the start of every episode should actually read 'This drama has taken a creative licence to Post Production."
Point One: <3 episode 11 with its logical flow. gwad. I want to this show to give me the feels so bad!
Point Two: Any one else find the music jarring and not fitting the emotions of scenes! Keep expecting EPIC music ala "The Princess' man ost : Destino" but instead get not that. Okay I know IU and EXO can make good music so lets find something that fits better.
Point Three: Okay so no third point yet; but more a hope that after its all done. That every bit of film get sent to a new post production team and this series is released again.
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119 patpat
October 5, 2016 at 9:09 AM
This was bothering me so much but I think now I get why Wook had to tell Soo about CP's false location. He told her he was in Chahyeon, and that "You will not be able to get him here ON YOUR OWN."
He was using Soo as bait to catch So. He knew she wouldn't tell anyone and would try to reach CP by herself, thinking he was still around the palace. That's why, in order to get So in, he had to tell her that the location was far away and she wouldn't be able to get there alone. By telling her so, he gave her the idea that she had to ask for help. And he knew very well the only person she would go to was So. Soo would tell the treason plan to So. All roads in and out had been blocked, so So would have no choice but to defend the throne. Wook would have the chance to fight and eventually kill So. CP was going to arrive anyway, and even if he killed So, he wouldn't be punished for he was the hero who inform the CP and he could simply say he had no choice or merely an accident that So was killed.
Wook alrd knew that the king had died, and he was merely testing Soo's honesty (and faithfulness) by asking. That look on Wook's face after Soo said for the 2nd time that the king asked for more tea was very clear; he had concluded that she lied to him and in his jealous mind, she betrayed him for So. That's why he decided to get So into battle by using Soo so he could kill him for stealing his girl. This was also another test for Soo, whether she would betray him (by telling So) for the 2nd time or not.
Wook is a scary man. He was the chess master and everyone was his pawn, perfectly played in his scenario w/o them even realizing.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 9:17 AM
Oooh...that makes sense! I too wondered about the CP location fakeout. I salute your deductive skills, patpat!
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pineapplegongzhu
October 5, 2016 at 9:57 AM
Patpat, you deserved better than to be burned down....although I think you said you spontaneously combusted upon Wang So/LJG coming near. ;)
SUCH a great deduction! I was really wondering why Su thought Wook had used her to bait So. It makes perfect sense now! LOVE that you figured it out and shared it with us!! <3
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patpat
October 7, 2016 at 11:16 AM
I did have some little flames lighting up everytime So coming near, but thankfully Shinju was so windy they got blown off almost immediately.
But the sight of him slaying those wolves apparently caused more than little flames. Before I even realized anything, I was all ash and I could only see him weeping over misunderstanding that he had burnt me off.
I just want to say again, I died happily though.
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 11:15 AM
I agree with everything you said. wook was definitely using Soo to get to So. Wook doesn't even trust Soo, and he says he loves her? Pft
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Maui
October 5, 2016 at 12:03 PM
Agree completely, that dialogue where she tells Wook afterwards, did you ever really trust my feeling for you, did you ever at least once really trust me?....and Wook never answers that.....his calculating mind and his trust no one philosophy is what makes him such a strong contender for the throne but it has also been his downfall....I think he was never able to let his guard down even with Lady Hae, thus he never let her know he loved her, to do that he would have had to let his guard down and make himself vulnerable....with Soo he wanted to learn to love openly but again his defensive calculating mind took over again......
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 1:04 PM
This man is too calculating for his own good, that's why Soo will never belong to him now as she sees him for who he is. I think ever since episode 11, Soo already knew in the back of her mind Wook will probably betray her.
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Junkikills
October 5, 2016 at 12:25 PM
When Soo said she wanted to keep distance, all Wook got to say was "Is it because of So?" Man, that hurt poor girl's heart so much. After all the bad things he had done (and the good things he never did) to her, she still managed to keep her heart only for him. But can he appreciate that? NO. Instead he indirectly accused her for being unfaithful. Soo was done. I'm done too.
I don't believe it's love that he has for her. More like, some beanies have said, possession. He wants to possess her, he doesn't care if she is happy or not. If he can't have her then nobody else can.
Funny that So is the one with this possession thingy yet he was so ready to let Soo go for her happiness.
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 1:00 PM
I know! I honestly think Wook sees Soo as a possession, not somebody he loves. Even though So says Soo is his person, he lets to have options, like "you can divorce me if you really don't like me" that type. Ugh I'm so done with Wook.
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banini
October 5, 2016 at 7:42 PM
That's Wook still playing the blame game. In his mind it is not his fault nor anything he does that makes Su turn away from him... it was just because of So or Su just being unfaithful. Never himself, anything or anyone but himself... from a man claiming responsibility over the lives of his family and Su. I think Wook is like that overly praised kid who grew up thinking he can never do wrong.
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youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 2:11 PM
A really, really good point! It was obvious through Hanuel's acting that Wook definitely knew the king was either dead or near death, and the rest of it was merely testing Su, but in a way that involved So. Wow, he's a whole different level.
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patpat
October 7, 2016 at 10:58 AM
Yes, he's a whole different level.
His first test with question about the king's death was solely to test Soo's honesty. But she failed him and he felt betrayed.
So for the 2nd test, he didn't merely test Soo; he made sure that if she did betray him, she would have to pay and the reason of her betrayal would pay as well. So would be killed and Soo would see with her own eyes the man she betrayed him for died, knowing very well that he died because of her. Wook knew very well how Soo was affected by Lady Oh's dying for her, so he knew that she would be severely broken if So died because of her. That was Wook's way of making Soo pay for her "betrayal".
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM
ooooh this is A++++ analysis. There are so many layers to that conversation, but this is imo the most accurate take on them.
Also, this:
That look on Wook’s face after Soo said for the 2nd time that the king asked for more tea was very clear; he had concluded that she lied to him and in his jealous mind, she betrayed him for So.
is spot-on. And perfectly in line with the way Wook reacted when Su's first question to him in prison after being tortured was about So's condition - which we know was because he drank poison and she's naturally concerned, but in Wook's eyes, it indicated, if not romantic interest exactly, then some feeling by Su towards So that he was not happy with.
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Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:37 AM
Yes, I noticed how quickly he took his hand off when she asked him the question. He was jealous. Though to be fair, I thought she already had some unconscious romantic attachment to So at the time.
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Maui
October 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM
Spot on explanation of how smart Wook is....the consequences for Hae Su would have been to break her completely if So died because of her.....Wooks punishment would have completely destroyed her.....
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120 Abbie
October 5, 2016 at 9:09 AM
Well, any hopes I had that there was any good left in Wook are utterly dashed. His ruthless willingness to kill not one but two of his brothers has destroyed any lingering sympathy I had for him. Good-bye Wook. It was fun while it lasted.
As for So, my heart just broke for him there at the end. That poor guy has been through heck, and compound that with unintentionally (as I see it, anyway) killing his brother and knowing that that will end any feelings of attachment Jung had for him and only increase his own mother's enmity toward him, has got to be devastating. I'm so happy Su reached out to him as she did and is allowing him to poor out his grief to her.
This show is so full of ups and downs, but I like it. Although I can't help feeling this would make a better novel than it does a drama series. Still, I love it. Looking forward to next week's epispdes!
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 11:39 PM
Agree with you. How much more is So supposed to be misunderstood and deal with such hard living conditions.
Jung's hatred for So seemed really uncalled for. Its like So tops the murder list of bunch of people like Yo, Evil Queen, Wook...
Jung u were doing so well y did u have to go and ruin it by hating So.
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121 Junkikills
October 5, 2016 at 9:59 AM
I read comments that wonder if Wook was really going to kill So. I'd say he was definitely all in for killing him, moreover upon seeing Soo and the realization that Soo had betrayed him for (he thought) So.
Yo was the one who should have turned into battle versus So but Wook took over the role willingly because it was his main intention. When the royal soldiers began shooting arrows, Wook should have known that the CP had arrived and there shouldn't be any reason for him to continue his drama pretending on Yo's side. Yet he still swung his sword at So hastily for the last time. He was that determined to kill him.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:38 PM
Yeah, totally agree.
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122 Seltzerwater
October 5, 2016 at 10:16 AM
This episode was great, all the swordfighting, done in a Bourne style with kinetic cuts and some of those really cool looking wide shots. See director, what you can do when you give actors scene context!
Hae-Su is finally coming into her own as a character because she finally has a purpose. It occurred to me that in C-BBJX, it can be read as a feminist text since it's about a woman existing in wildly oppressive times and her struggle to maintain identity. Hae-Su struggles with the same thing, but it's done in a way that doesn't allow us to glimpse into her inner workings. We are dying for some actual Hae-Su perspective, but the director is just not giving it to us. Wang So is definitely a more well defined character b/c we see everything from his point of view. It would be nice to get those moments for Hae Su, instead of trying to infer from her interactions with Wang So how she really feels. This is where a lot of her relationships with the female characters are wasted, like her maid Chae Ryung. We can get from her maid how she REALLY feels about being in this world. The “best friend trope” exists because that’s how we get some quick exposition out of the way. I would argue that someone like Lady Oh and/or Lady Hae aren’t those characters, we need someone on the same footing. Instead Hae-Su gets defined by her relationship with Wang So or Wang Wook, which is a classic male-writer mistake. They rarely think about female characters outside of their intended purpose for the male heroes. *feminist rant over*
It is mildly annoying to me that she needed a directive from the king to realize her purpose, I felt like Jimong gave her direction already, but now the King kind of does a 180 and tells her that she needs to make sure CP ends up on the throne? Kinda the opposite of what he was saying to her earlier to not interfere. Alright, not taking advice from a dying King plz.
Seohyun is a TERRIBLE actress. She's serving me nothing but nice eyeliner. Her face also doesn't seem to move? Which I chalk that up to too many fillers.
———Entertainment Biz Rant
Oh one more thing, people are complaining about too many idols and speaking from an industry perspective, the idols are most likely the reason that the show got sold, as well as netting a huge streaming deal with Youku. Idols are money in the bank, so to speak from a product packaging perspective. I know I hopped on the show b/c I’m not normally a fan of sageuks, but this one had all the eye candy. Yes, some of these actors aren’t great. But it’s the sausage-making of the entertainment industry; you need the meat to sell to the audience. Also keep in mind that this is a network broadcast show, beholden to many many stakeholders, not some indie film where the auteur has all control and vision.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:35 PM
Re: the idols, the only one who could actually fit that 'needed for the streaming sales' reasoning is IU - who's the lead, and a very recognisable name in her own right both in Korea and (following the reception of her previous acting project) in China too.
The others? I doubt anyone knows or cares about them outside their groups, and I absolutely do not buy that Baekhyun or Seohyun are any kind of value addition to a project led by Lee Jun-ki, who is a Hallyu star in his own right and all his post-military dramas have sold overseas rights for solid chunks of cash without any idols involved.
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baek
October 5, 2016 at 9:32 PM
added bonus? the more the merrier.. (just like some show even cameo from a famous person makes a effect and get people talk about it)
cant be helped i guess.. unless u reject the drama totally.. if not whoever they picked or cast, u dont have much choice.. they dont even require ur approval.. and there's so many hands behind the scene manipulating..
but of course, the quality suffers if their acting is not up to standard..
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Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:41 AM
I totally agree that LJK doesn't need idols to sell his drama. I have a question though. I thought EXO is widely popular. No?
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JoyBells
October 6, 2016 at 1:33 AM
EXO is definitely popular but Lee Jun Ki is a big star in his own right to sell a drama. But for international views like @baek said, the idol cast is like an added bonus.Many comments in the streaming sites are like "I <3 baekhyun". "Seohyun is so pretty"(personally i dread having to watch scenes of those two).
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 1:44 AM
Is that about the youku streams, or the *coughillegalcough* streaming sites people in areas outside DF access tend to rely on? Because those tend to be cluttered with kpop fans largely due to the disqus commenting system, which is something used by a lot of kpop blogs.
pogo
October 6, 2016 at 12:53 AM
@baek - of course ordinary viewers have no say in casting decisions, no one here claims they do. But if these idols were cast for buzz, I must say they're doing a very poor job of it or kdrama audiences don't care as much for kpop idols as their fans would like to believe, since the only comments about them are how bad they are at acting. Like I said, IU draws plenty of comment on her own - there's absolutely no point in sticking in more idols that no one other that their group's fans know or care about, especially when they can't act.
@Lin_K - I think Exo is pretty popular? But that's for kpop, I don't think they're relevant to kdrama viewers in Korea or abroad, going by the promo I saw in Japan.
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Seltzerwater
October 6, 2016 at 1:22 PM
@pogo haha I'm not advocating for stunt casting at all. There are many incidences of this straight up failing. What I'm trying to explain is how the entertainment industry has to hedge its bets when it comes to monetizing a show like this. First, this show was enormous expensive to produce. They had to show investors how they would make their money back. They already pulled in IU and Lee Jun-Ki, but now to pad out the financial safety of the show, they would point to the rabid fan base of SNSD and EXO. It's all part of the same deal. Many American actresses (before reaching fame) often complain that they're cast based on social media numbers. And in a very image conscious biz like Kdrama, I believe the same logic would apply.
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 7:17 PM
@Seltzerwater - that's the thing I do not understand, the investor logic about the Exo/SNSD fan base.
Because every other drama starring a member of those groups (most idols really) in a lead role has tanked in the ratings - it's pretty clear rabid kpop fanbases don't do much for dramas.
I've also seen the Japanese promo for this show, and the idols barring IU of course, are all but absent, so casting them can't even be a matter of "feed this to idiot foreign idol fangirls, they will eat it all up". I mean, if they were supposed to help out so much by appealing to kpop fanbases, you'd think they would be more present in the promotional material.
LYF
October 6, 2016 at 9:35 PM
@pogo I think they were aiming for the Chinese market here. I was scrolling through Youku and somewhere I saw Wang Eun being voted as the most popular prince (which got me all ?????? ????? ????). So there's probably a significant Kpop fanbase watching the drama in China?
baek
October 7, 2016 at 8:34 PM
@ pogo, im referring to the actor themselves actually.. just like lee joon ki for instance or other ppl, lets say he confirmed in taking up the role.. but he simply got no power or absolute say to control who is going take the remaining role later (whether its a flower boy, idol or rookie/experienced actor) unless his agency is the production or powerful to manipulate the role casting..
i do agree actually the main leads themselves can already support the show.. and too much of others doesnt seem to help in this case with their bad acting or out of context scene where could be use for better development.. feel like they simply are just like flower vase or extras..
they probably just need their "branding/name" or to raise the "hype".. it irritates some that the quality get pulled down, but to some its like a gift, even if they appear and do nth they would be amazed.. like how some appeared in cameo and stuff.. a couple of minutes or even seconds on screen sometime without lines even and it gets ppl discussing for even weeks (like song joong ki appearance cameo in one upcoming drama.. im sure his fans would rush to watch)
i think short drama like this is common to have such appearances (just take it as idol based drama, its pretty normal in china/taiwan).. whereas those long long family or prime time drama (those which guarantee stable and high rating since most ppl watch and many many ep one, u can see the casts are mostly make up of older, experienced or senior actor)
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SilverEyeliner
October 6, 2016 at 4:28 AM
@Seltzerwater,
The scripwriter screwed up feminism (for Hae Soo's character) in Scarlet Heart Ryeo. It took Jimong and the King (both male characters) to 'tell' her what her purpose is and she just accepts it passively. I suppose she did have doubts about her role back in episode 8 but it was more of panic attacks than trying to think introspectively for herself what her purpose is.
On the other hand, i really love the portrayal of Yeonhwa, Lady Oh and Queen White-Hair bid to get what they want in a patriarchal society.
Idols are okay as long as not the lead characters. Oops.. IU is a leading lady :D but her acting is okay for me. :D
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Seltzerwater
October 6, 2016 at 1:25 PM
@Silvereyeliner
I don't think the writer screwed up Hae Su's feminism - I think her reasons and motivations can still be completely feminist - i.e. is she helping the King because she wants to go with the flow or is she helping the King because she wants Goryeo to stay intact? She's never shown any political inclinations before...again this is bad characterization, they could have easily show a 1 min scene where she asks Baek-ah about the history of Goryeo to show that she DOES care about outcomes, instead of tying it solely to her vision of Gwangjo. The problem is the POV that we're getting from the show, which defines her against her male relationships. I'd like to see more of her own motivations and priorities.
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Silvereyeliner
October 7, 2016 at 8:44 AM
I'd like to see what she actually thinks too. We don't actually get to see her POV which makes it all very vague and sad.. What does she really want? Earlier she said he wanted to prevent Wang So from killing his brothers. Then Jimong said not to get involved and with all the visions, i supposed she was too terrified and gave up. Lady Oh's death didn't help matters.
And now, the King said not to get involved and then asked for help to get the crown prince. She could be helping because it was the right thing to do at that point. Logically, ascension to the throne should be given to crown princes. I think she was just following the logical order.
But beyond that, I am still unclear about her motivations. It felt as though she lack direction. Maybe she herself is confused and too tired to think. Or maybe she decided to live one day at a time. Well, a little monologue on her thoughts would help greatly. After all, she's the main character. Her story should come first.
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123 Gidget
October 5, 2016 at 10:36 AM
" I can’t quite get a read on how badly he wants the seat, since he tends to fluctuate between saying that he wants it and definitely will have it, to seemingly forgetting that he ever thought of it. Was he lying when he told Yeonhwa that he wanted to be king so he could win Su’s heart?"
My take was that he was being totally sarcastic when he told Yeonhwa he wanted the throne if he thought it'd earn him Su's heart. Su has made it more than clear she doesn't want that.
I can't see So turning to the dark side. His conflicts are more likely to be driven by the motivation of needing to kill or be killed. Like in his last scene with Yo.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS BASED ON HISYORY:
And, in reality, this historical figure DIDN'T kill a lot of family members. At least I haven't been able to find anything credible that said he did. So there's that too.
If anything, for the killing that did happen, I can see them portraying it as Yeonhwa orchestrating that behind the scenes. That is, if they get married as history suggests. [In this drama] she's such a repulsive human being. It just sickens me to think we'll need to watch as So ends up getting entangled in her web. Hopefully they'll break from history on that one point. Or at least end the story before it happens.
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124 alphazentaurus
October 5, 2016 at 11:14 AM
So, I'm really flabbergasted after watching the international preview of ep 14. what's with that marrying a 6 years old child!? Sure it's solely poltcal issue und highly common in this time period, but what's with this change of wind?
In ep 12 he rejected YH and was rambling on about only marrying HS. Is that all forgotten in an instant?
Moreover WS was hardly the type of guy, who lets himself force into things he's not willing to do. I'm confused...
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM
Well it's a different story if the King asks you marry his daughter, it'd be treason to go against King's orders. Of course he'd reject Yeonhwa, it's because she herself asked So to marry her, not the King. I'm sure the King is dying, and needs his daughter to be protected, and he trusts So so he asked him to marry his daughter.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 10:44 PM
Whether it's Mu's wish or the king's dying instruction, it makes sense that Mu would marry his daughter to So if he believes he is dying and wants or thinks So will take over after him. That way, Mu's bloodline has a chance to continue in any progeny, and it ties So's clan to Mu's daughter, providing Mu's progeny with some protection. Yeon Hwa will be the same. If your son can't or is unlikely to be king, tie your daughter to the man who will be.
This is all politics. His real 'wife' will be Su. He said it himself in answer to Wook, 'if I say it's a marriage, it's a marriage'. She won't be Empress - Yeon Hwa can fight that out with the little princess and we know she'll win - but she will be Su's 'wife'. Unfortunately, she seems destined to play the same role as Lady Oh, but with the difference I think that So will be perfectly willing to give up the throne for her. But she herself will discover she can't let him do that. He's the best man for the job.
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Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:44 AM
The real Wang So never had a child with his consort. I wonder if their relationship with platonic considering she was his brother's daughter and he married her when she was a child.
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JoyBells
October 6, 2016 at 1:38 AM
Huh...but i read another comment saying that real Wang So was succeded by his son and then later by Wook's son.
Whose kid is that then? His and Yeonhwa's?
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banshee
October 6, 2016 at 2:49 AM
Yes, according to the history Yeonhwa was the only one who gave born to his children.
Napkiin
October 6, 2016 at 8:05 AM
I don't think Wook's son succeeded the throne, his daughter however though married So's son and became queen. in history 13th had an affair with So's 2nd queen and they had a child, that child became the King later on.
kumoiwa
October 6, 2016 at 8:23 AM
Here's a condensed version of the Goryeo line of succession:
Taejo – Hyejong (Mu) – Jeongjong (Yo) – Gwangjong (So) – Gyeongjong (So’s son) – Seongjong (Wook’s son) – Mokjong (Gyeongjong’s eldest son aka So’s grandson) – Hyeonjong (Baek-ah’s illegitimate son)
Then so it continues from Baek-ah's lineage.
JoyBells
October 6, 2016 at 10:22 AM
@cherryarrow
Wut!!! There is so much incest here that it boggles my mind keeping the relationship's straight. Uncles,nieces, cousins,half-siblings all seems fair game except for immediate siblings. :/
Napkiin
October 6, 2016 at 10:56 AM
@JoyBells
My bad, I meant 13th had an affair with Wang So's son's 2nd queen (also Hwangbo, his first queen and 2nd queen are both Hwangbo sisters, Wook is their father)
I know so much incest going on, it's a wonder how they function... Good thing they started to marry Mongolian princesses from Yuan so they're not marrying their own relatives...
125 gem28
October 5, 2016 at 11:21 AM
This show truly feels like a 20 hour long exam with mostly, fill in the blanks. Why do they leave out so much from narrative, important ones. While do like the show seems to have figured out its foundation, its still makes you scratch you head and pull your hair out in frustration at the incoherence. For example, what could possibly stop Yo from killing every single of those who betrayed him once he ascends to the throne. Or did he have a change of a heart along with his appearance minus all the perfect eye-liner. And I still don't care about Baek-Ah and his girl, I like Baek-Ah but minus the girl. Also, what's with Jung, what's with all these weird off the screen developments happening to the characters that make zero sense. When you don't allow for the change to be seen or let it impact you in some other way, you can't feel for them. Hence, Jung's story line sounds is sudden and unnecessary to me. Just don't follow the novel all on a sudden when you decided at the beginning to deviate so much from it that the finished product is unrecognizable. Same goes for, the Kings new found love for Su as his daughter. If we go by the earlier episodes, it should be Yeon-Hwa as she is sly and in his good graces. This plot holes are getting more frequent and more elaborate for me to ignore. Its distraction.
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RedRosette
October 5, 2016 at 3:12 PM
I totally agree with you. They are trying to compress what ideally should be about 40-50 episodes into 20 episodes. It's just upsetting that the character development (especially the smaller characters) has to suffer as a result. My friend and I are really upset about these issues and we did some analysis of the plot issues in episode 13 if you're interested: http://thedramafilesblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/05/file-no-moon-lovers-scarlet-heart-ryeo-ep-13/
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126 Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 11:25 AM
I think OSTs from Princess' Man and Empress Ki would really fit this drama!
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127 YP
October 5, 2016 at 11:34 AM
Ugh, So still doesn't know the relationship between Wook and Soo and I'm mad. I know I shouldn't be because that was the case from BBJX, I'm just not prepared when he finds out cos sh*t is gonna go down T_T
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Junkikills
October 5, 2016 at 12:03 PM
I haven't read the novel or watched C-BBJX yet, so I'm really curious. Does the 4th prince in the Chinese version have the same personality as So? I mean so far, So has shown us that he really loves Soo with his all. He is possessive, but he's ready to set it aside for Soo's happiness, like when he was ready to let Soo go once he got her out of palace. I think he may get jealous upon knowing her past relationship, but I don't believe he will hurt her out of jealousy.
Well, maybe I'm just trying to be positive because I ship them so much. The problem of sailing with this ship is too many storms waiting ahead. Ship is sailing strongly rn but I know I must prepare for the worst T____T
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 1:13 PM
Original 4th has a very different personality from So. But the original 4th prince took the throne when he was much older, whereas So is way younger. Original 4th is more stoic and quiet, he's calculating, and he enjoys calligraphy lol. Ruoxi (Soo) called him an "ice-cube face" haha. So here is way more playful. I enjoy both versions really!
"I think he may get jealous upon knowing her past relationship, but I don’t believe he will hurt her out of jealousy"
Maybe? But considering this is based on the Chinese novel, you're in it for a big surprise if you haven't read/watched the original. The moment when Soo warns Wook about So, I knew where they were headed...
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fangirlmj
October 5, 2016 at 3:28 PM
Here's a short part of the Chinese version...
* Yinsi - Wang Wook
* Rouxi - Hae Soo
* Yinzhen - Wang So
* Yinti - Wang Jung
When Yinsi's wife tells Ruoxi that Yinsi acted against Yinzhen years ago because of her advice based on the knowledge of the future, she is shocked, and her despair causes her to miscarry Yinzhen's child and is unable to conceive again. Enraged, Yinzhen blames Yinsi and his wife, issuing an edict forcing them to divorce, which leads her to commit suicide. Ruoxi fears Yinzhen's punitive actions against his brothers and confesses the truth to him and Yinxiang. Yinzhen is stunned when he understands why Yinsi plotted against him and starts treating Ruoxi coldly. Ruoxi is unable to withstand the mental stress and asks Yinti to help her leave the palace. Yinsi knows that Yinzhen will not allow Ruoxi to leave and decides to intervene. He discloses details of his past romance with Ruoxi, and an angered Yinzhen eventually agrees to let Ruoxi and Yinti leave the Forbidden City.
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Napkiin
October 5, 2016 at 3:53 PM
Oh gosh you should put a spoiler alert out there. O_O
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YP
October 5, 2016 at 3:54 PM
*sobs*
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 10:51 PM
A bit of a difference here maybe, in that nobody knows Su knows the future? As well, all Su says to Wook is not to go against So and to be careful of him. It does seem to plant an idea in Wook's head, but I'd be disappointed if that's all it takes for So to banish Su.
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JoyBells
October 6, 2016 at 1:44 AM
A question here,i havent watched BBXJ-
Chinese version Soo is pregnant with Wang So's child? Are they married or is she just his concubine?
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Hye Mi
October 6, 2016 at 6:43 AM
If you mean to ask about ML's possible events, the answer is no one can know for sure yet. I can't say with certainty about the pregnancy and miscarriage part, since it is within the power of this writer to adopt or leave such parts, but if the show tries to stay close to actual turns of events in history, then an official marriage between Soo-So is very unlikely for ML, judging from how they are trying to stay true to history by addressing Gwangjong's marriage with his half-sister and niece.
*spoiler*
If you mean to ask about C-BBJX, yes to both of your questions, only the names wouldn't be Soo and Wang So ^^
JoyBells
October 6, 2016 at 10:25 AM
@Hye Mi.
Thank you. I was asking about the C-BBJX. So the heroine does marry the 4th prince. :D
YP
October 6, 2016 at 10:58 AM
* possible spoiler?
No in CBBJX Ruoxi did not marry 4th.
Hye Mi
October 6, 2016 at 12:18 PM
@JoyBells: Oops sorry I missed the first part of your choice question :). No she didn't have an official marriage or even a status as a concubine. She remained his lover & unofficially unmarried, and this made subsequent turns of events possible.
Junkikills
October 6, 2016 at 3:09 AM
I wonder why Ruoxi never felt the need to be honest to Yinzhen about her past relationship? I mean, you need honesty to have a healthy relationship right? Being so intimate with Yinzhen but never tell him about Yinsi feels so wrong to me. In modern relationship, I think the question about ex bf will appear even on the very first date lol
Same here in SH. I feel that Soo needs to disclose her past relationship to So, seriously. It's not fair for So to be completely clueless. She is from the future, she should know well how dishonesty can break a relationship.
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Hye Mi
October 6, 2016 at 6:35 AM
This is just my take but I don't think even in modern days it is required for one to disclose to their partner about their past relationships. If a man or woman doesn't want to talk about their exes, that is not always dishonesty. In many cases it's just their entitlement to their own privacy. I only consider it dishonest/ unfaithful to have several romantic relationships going on at the same time. I've got a friend who said 'Gentlemen don't talk', meaning he considers it good manner for men not to talk about their exes once their relationships are over, be it to friends or new partners. Within my friend circle, many of my male and female friends don't ask about their partners' past relationships, and they themselves don't choose to tell about their exes either, and they still fall in love and be happy, so I don't think it's a bad thing to choose to let bygone be bygone.
Now onto your question. I think there is strong reason for RX not to tell 4th about her romance with 8th. Part of the main theme for BBJX is RX's trying not to meddle with history given her knowledge of it, but cannot betray her heart and ultimately lets her action become the catalyst of historical events. Set within such context, RX's withholding her love with 8th from 4th is one of the actions RX deliberately takes to protect 8th from the fate she knows will be in store for him (being the target of deep resentment from 4th). By hiding her past relationship from 4th, she thinks keeping it in the dark will not make 4th single out 8th as his arch enemy, thus hoping she can change his bitter end. She leaves it to 4th's & 13th's imagination and misinterpretation that she has had 'something' going on with 14th instead, because she knows 14th had a better ending in real history, that he was 4th's biological brother, and importantly she doesn't have any romantic attachment to him, strong enough to wish to alter his fate.
For ML and Soo-So, I don't know and I can't tell now because there are still 7 eps left. Maybe the reason why Soo remains silent will be explain later. I may have to reread the recaps, but I have an impression that Soo had a vision of Gwangjong killing his brothers (or was it all of his brothers? someone please correct me here). If that was the case maybe Soo didn't say to So due to the same reason as RX, though I'd appreciate it more if there were more glimpses into Soo's thought process so viewers don't have to grope their way in the dark.
128 bashful
October 5, 2016 at 11:43 AM
The editing on this drama is killing me - I am pretty sure a film student could do a better job...
I mean to suddenly go from the Wook-Soo talk to Yo running away from his pursuers - how did he even escape?!
Oh vey.
Despite its myriad of problems, I do like this drama but there is so much wasted potential and I think a lot of it is down to the fact that it's too short - if not a traditional 50 episode sageuk, at least 30/36 to fully flesh out characters and plot lines.
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129 Lynn
October 5, 2016 at 12:27 PM
I have to say, this week's episodes pissed me off. I feel actually pretty annoyed over the lack of sense in some of the scenes (especially in episode 13).
The death of Taejo was pretty uneventful... Lady Hae and Lady Oh's deaths were (by far) better portrayed in my humble opinion. For God's sake, a king, the founder of a nation/dynasty /empire just died and it was just so damn underwhelming!
I feel cheated, perhaps because episode 11 was so wonderful... And episode 12? I don't even want to talk about it.
About Prince Wook's sudden 'change' I totally saw it coming, the fact that he is trying to put his own blame on So tells me a lot about his character . He's always been shady and morally weak.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 1:08 PM
Me too, Lynn. It's funny because I was kind of ignoring the negative comments last episode, trying not to let them rock me out of my happy place with this drama, but then they do it again with this episode, not so bad, but still, just doing stupid things makes me feel stupid for liking this drama so much.
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Welp
October 5, 2016 at 7:01 PM
I'm feeling the same way, the last two episodes are pissing me off lol
I'm more annoyed at myself because I know I'm not gonna drop this drama anytime soon *sigh*
I don't think Taejo's death was underwhelming tho. I thought it was an impactful portrayal of how complicated the palace politics are.
And So reminiscing about the mask and then covering his father with the cloak is a very lovely moment *cries* Definitely one of my favorite scenes in the drama so far
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130 Anita
October 5, 2016 at 1:12 PM
Moon Lovers is not good in my honest opinion. It has bad writing, directing, and editing. The characters are very underdeveloped especially Hae Soo. What does the audience even know about her other than the fact that she can make soap and concealer, what makes her tick as a character. Moon Lovers also more holes than Swiss cheese. What is exactly is the the main plot, if it's the fight for the throne then that should've been the main story focus from day 1. The love relationship with Hae Soo & 8th Prince and/or 4th Prince is not compelling to me at all. I am not rooting for her to with any of the Princes, she just needs to high tail it back to the future. It pisses me off at the writing tactics that this screenwriter has been doing and how people are just falling for it. The writer is telling us who we the viewers should root for rather letting the audience decide for themselves( ie 4th Prince= wounded animal, the female lead love will heal his "scars", awful mother, therefore should be rooted for at all cost.). Moon Lovers had all the potential to be a epic, compelling hit but it failed massively in its execution. It makes me want to have someone redo the drama and retell it in a better way.
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youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 2:04 PM
I don't think people are "falling" for any tactics. Everyone can think for themselves I'm sure. Besides, every single written narrative has a reason because there is always an external voice, there is always an overarching author. Things don't happen in a void in fiction. Once you start looking at the strings, it's all just strings. I mean, sure, it can be a legitimate complaint, but for pretty much everything. 90% of fiction (especially in the romance genre) will tell you which couple to root for or deliberately make you root for one couple. I was totally shipping the second lead in Cinderella and the Four Knights (and I usually ship second lead), but obviously after the initial set-up they barely had scenes together, and the show focused mainly on the lead couple. Even if the second lead didn't turn evil (and here too Wook is hardly evil currently, just very smart and focused), it was equally manipulative because the show told us whom to ship. Just as pretty much every single drama does, it's hardly something unusual to Moon Lovers.
Also, 4th Prince= wounded animal, the female lead love will heal his “scars” might seem like the story, but only if you're just looking at it through the angle of tropes and promotional material. Because what's been happening on-screen is quite the opposite. It's, in fact, the female lead who is the real wounded animal and the prince who is possibly going to heal her scars.
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Anita
October 5, 2016 at 2:26 PM
Of course certain tropes will be used in dramas but the fact that Moon Lovers doesn't even try to use those tropes in a organic, fresh way is poor storytelling. I still think that the scriptwriter for Moon Lovers has written the characters in a stereotypical way and she/he has failed to add any layers/depth to female lead and the supporting characters. I wish that someone would redo this drama in a better way. I just can not turn off my brain and leave logic at the door so I can watch this show.
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youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 3:00 PM
I think it's kind of the opposite again, in that they DID use a fresh approach, which is the only reason why people genuinely care about Wook so much. He's someone that Hae Soo actually, really loved, instead of being just being someone in an unrequited one-sided love like so many second leads, who are pretty much pointless to the story apart from creating some dramatic triangle tension. Hae Soo and Wook was kind of tragic because their timing was so wrong. And even here, you can see how much it's jealousy that affects him. It's not that he's "turned evil,"it's that- being as principled as he was, he was let down by himself; he couldn't live up to his idea of himself. The first time he turned his back on Su, he lost those principles he'd thought he'd uphold (and for his family, a legitimate enough reason) and after that, you can tell that more than anyone else he no longer thinks he's the same person- as everyone else keeps saying- and now he's living up to his perception of himself. idk, I find their editing absolutely horrendous, but I love their characters and I find them v. engaging. Wook/So is tragic more than its manipulative. Because they (unlike 97% of dramaland male second leads and female leads) really could have been.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:00 PM
Yes, I agree. They do or did truly love each other. But his principles can be a form of egotism too. Because he was ashamed, he didn't try to find her, reassure her, or anything while she was in grief over him. That's his pride, and I actually empathize because there have been a few times in my life where I absented myself from a friend because I couldn't do anything for her. A little experience showed that that way of thinking was all about me, and just the knowledge of my support and a listening ear were far more valuable than any 'fixing' I could do. It's Wook's shame, not Su's - she doesnt deserve to suffer because of it.
Sea
October 6, 2016 at 4:53 PM
@ Zoe. I was surprised how far the drama goes with the relationship between Soo and Wook, and the way that was presented. I really believe that Soo loves Wook, and I really like, that their relationship had its own space, to the point that, although, So has always been around, I didn't feel there was a love triangle, not in the traditional sense, I mean, So doesn't even know about their relationship. It's like they were always in his bubble, and to me, a cute one bubble. This doesn't happen much, so it was interesting to see. And as you say, they relationship is sad, because they really could have been.
and sadder, considering there is still good potential in this relationship, because they have characteristics of a main couple.
junah
October 7, 2016 at 12:59 AM
how character and romantic story has been built until this episode, I starts to believe it is actually wook that is a male first lead rather than So. I am now interesting more to see Wook becoming ambitious villain, rather waiting for So becoming a tyrant. will the later will ever happen ? sigh.
Sea
October 6, 2016 at 4:49 PM
Unless they want to write just for themselves, the writers have to write for the readers or viewers, and as this is a business, writers have or should have a tactics, depending on the audience they want to catch, sad, but truth, because as I said before, this will condition the work of the writers, very often. They will tell you which couple to root for, that's normal, but as a viewer you can decide whatever you want. If you decide root for what the show is offering, you will be ok, if not, you will be frustrated, or, as it has been happening with this drama, you don't accept the reality of the story as presented, you will be frustrated too. The thing is, in the end, all the writers, until a certain point, want to manipulate the people, I mean their emotions, either, in a good or a bad way. Writers always want people to react in a certain way, you can be aware of their purpose, and it's up to you, whether you want to follow the paths they are showing you. As experts say, the active reader reads, beside the words, what the writer is doing, this can help you interpret his work.
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 11:50 PM
This show has got Wang So (Lee Joon Gi). Check the pic on top of recap. Let me u don't find this show interesting after that :D
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 11:53 PM
Correction!!!
Let me know if u don’t find this show interesting after that :)
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131 youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 1:50 PM
I'm a little in disagreement with the review because I think it shortchanges Su a bit. I absolutely LOVE Su at this point. I love that we have a female lead who is not necessarily required to be persistently, maniacally cheerful despite everything that has happened to her and overcome it all through sheer perseverance etc., like it often happens with female character who retain all their cheer and goodwill, despite any and all hardships (and load sharks.) Su's resignation and jadedness was almost painful to watch, especially as it came after her endless, boundless optimism. I honestly don't think characters (especially female characters) only deserve our respect if they're actively using their super intelligence to figure out unthought of plans or wielding swords. There's something to be said for women who're not openly or obviously badass, who give up on occasion, who barely get by. Obviously Court Lady Oh's death hit her extremely hard, and especially as she feels that it was because of her. I don't mind seeing that transition period when she tries to pick herself up again-- which she does, here. That period of depression and grief was beautifully acted, I felt so much for what she'd been through, that even with all the strange editing decisions and the extremely fast-moving pace and time-shifts and incidents, I felt the weight of the events. Su was a true temporal compass here.
And I thought re: her scene with Wook that she said the part about going away together at this point so- if it were true that he was just doing it for her- he wouldn't go ahead with his plans for the throne and there would be no more bloodshed.The fact that he said he wanted the throne for her clearly seemed burdensome to her. And it put the weight of more lives on her head. I was fairly sure that she didn't want to run away with him because of any romantic notions (though I'm sure she harbored that secret hope that he would take her up on it and it would be okay.) But the shift was pretty clear; I thought it fairly telling how instinctively she trusted So-- she did not even wait for him to ask about the king (and put him through her is he well/is he dead test) before telling him everything.
As for this scene:
"So I'm asking you again- is the king already dead?"
"The king...has asked for more tea."
Chills.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:57 PM
YESSSSSSS this part:
“So I’m asking you again- is the king already dead?”
“The king…has asked for more tea.”
The change in Su's face when she realises what he's asking her and what that means.....oof.
And count me in agreement on Su's current state. The girl is, to the best of her knowledge, stuck in Goryeo forever, in increasingly oppressive circumstances that have now led to the death of someone she loved, and that someone dies for her sake. I'm completely unsurprised she isn't as chipper as she used to be.
It's a bit much to demand, that she retain her 21st-century qualities when we know she could actually die for it, or her old optimism after what she's already faced.
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youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 3:08 PM
Yeah, lol. Honestly speaking...what would acting like she's from the future even mean? I mean, are 21st century women more resourceful than the women in Goryeo times? I'm just sitting in my bed watching Moon Lovers on my laptop, and if I were suddenly thrown in a 10th century war-zone, I'm not sure what smarts or expertise I would use to survive. I mean, being from the future is not a fail-save way of surviving when you're left on your own resources and don't actually have any of those nifty 21st century devices or technology that only you would know how to use to assist you in your way. Especially when- on top of everything- your 21st century qualities already got you into trouble so many times.
I like that Hae Soo had to hit rock bottom before moving up, it makes for an interesting story!
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 3:20 PM
I did see a lot of comment directed at Su about how, being a 21st-century girl who'd been cheated on, she should never have fallen for Wook, and a general expectation that she should retain all her modern ways and attitudes, which makes absolutely no sense given that she's in a place where even a plain thumbs-up gets her told 'no, you can't call me the best, that's the king's place."
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Fuyu
October 6, 2016 at 12:41 PM
Totally agree. Unless you're like the doctor in Faith, the average modern day person would have no practical knowledge that would be helpful if they were transported into the past.
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Fuyu
October 6, 2016 at 12:51 PM
I think HS as a 21st century women is actually worse off than another female noble who was born in Goreyo since she's illiterate at the beginning of the drama. Not sure how much her literacy improves. In the C-drama, Ruoxi notes how lucky she woke up as a female noble or else she would have starved to death since she's can't do physical labor and she's half illiterate at the start.
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swati
October 5, 2016 at 11:59 PM
Totally agree with you Zoe.
But i just wish Su could admit her feelings for So. Or consider her feelings for him. I mean at this point he as done everything that puts her as important for him. (well i just find Wang So too hot to be rejected in proposal)
I don't understand her dedication for Wook. All the guy did was break a door and get her outside. If anyone can explain me what else has he done for this dedication. I will be grateful.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 6, 2016 at 4:47 PM
I'm glad you mentioned about Su's instinctive trust of So.
I actually found that the most romantic part in the episode (in one of the most unromantic situations, overshadowed only by the prison chat scene in Episode 11).
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Barbrey
October 6, 2016 at 11:07 PM
Me too!
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132 youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 2:17 PM
A word of appreciation for Hanuel; he's so damn good. I believed him as the warmly intelligent, scholarly, principled prince, and I believe him as the coldly intelligent, manipulative, jealous prince. And I believe the transition. He's really shining in this drama, his microexpressions are amazing as well. And he actually seems to be the scariest character introduced till now because of his intelligence and foresight. That channeled into his ambition is a pretty heady cocktail. He's the most fearsome opponent yet, despite the presence of all the would-be treason-plotters, because he's so hard to get a full read on. His motives and motivations are always slightly off-centre.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:42 PM
Kang Haneul is quite possibly the most talented actor in his age group right now, this despite the fact that he's largely stuck to supporting roles so far - and his versatility is a bit mind-boggling tbqh (Monstar, Misaeng, Mourning Grave, Dongju, that Missing Noir M cameo, Empire of Lust, now this....his range is astonishing).
I love how he portrays Wook's inscrutability without sacrificing expressiveness on the altar of that. And I love the whole gamut he's run as Wook, from that initial heady crush to the grief he felt after the death of his wife, to the way he feels pushed into a corner.
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Sojuboy
October 6, 2016 at 2:31 PM
The real actor here is Kang Ha Neul, Not LJG's overacting nonsense. :)
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 7:21 PM
lol you really tried it, child.
Too bad no one fell for it and this is going to be the only reply you get.
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junah
October 7, 2016 at 1:06 AM
i buy it. and yes, that microexpression. you surely can act, when your face just stay still, but people knows what is in your mind.
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joy
October 7, 2016 at 11:52 AM
sorry @pogo your reply will not be the only one lol but I really have to say something.
dear @Sojuboy, before you say something like that, put KHN as Wang So. See if he can pull out such a complex and emotional character without something you called "overacting nonsense". Only by then we will be able to make fair comparison.
The need to degrade other actor to make your favorite looks good shows how insecure you are about your favorite. KHN deserves better fans than you.
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Puni
October 6, 2016 at 6:19 PM
KHN has blown me away in this drama! Excellent acting. He and LJK have seriously amazing acting talent. They are the reason I love this drama and why I keep coming back after deplorable editing, confusing ost and inescapable characters..
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 4:05 PM
I started watching Misaeng because I heard he was in it. He's very good in that too. I was also interested to learn he had been a stage actor, excellent training. For me, he's been the best actor on screen aside from some of the older pros. LJG is also very good, of course, and IU has been great aside from a few areas, while we've seen great improvement with NJE. My least favorite are the Hallyu stars - BH, JS and the girl playing Baek Ah's love interest - and perhaps this drama will teach the producers a lesson about casting them if they are not experienced enough because using them for promotion seems to have backfired. Note that I didn't know they were Hallyu stars or anything about them before watching this drama, by the way. I just noticed they weren't good.
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Jamie Opso
October 5, 2016 at 8:53 PM
Kang Haneul is reaallly good and I am so glad he's playing opposite Lee Joon Gi. The two of them make up for some pretty terrible casting, in my mind (I'm ignoring the subpar actors).
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Sea
October 6, 2016 at 4:46 PM
Haneul is really good, one of the things that caught my attention about him was, how his expression can reveal much without a word spoken, and vice versa, how he can be indecipherable if he has to be. It may look simple, but convey emotions through gestures, can be very difficult, because often it looks fake or forced, but in him everything seems natural. He can give us a killer face and the sweetest face in the world very easily. Right now, he can be bad or good, I will believe whatever type of character he portrays.
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133 Rachel
October 5, 2016 at 2:44 PM
Just throwing this out there, do you guys get a very beauty and the beast vibe from Su and So? Their whole arc feels that way, she's the first person to show him kindness and he falls for that; she sees him as a monster, and in return out of hurt he acts like one; but now that she sees he's just a wounded little boy she begins to reciprocate his feelings. Also the whole scar/mask things is very beauty and the beast-esque. Love it though! I swear I live for this ship.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 2:58 PM
Yeah, I can definitely see that trope in So and Su - the masking emphasises it even more.
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YY
October 5, 2016 at 8:34 PM
Tale as old as time
Tune as old as song
Bittersweet and strange
Finding you can change
Learning you were wrong
The last two lines of the song are ominous, though....does it mean you changed, and later found out you actually never did change at all? A beast remains a beast at heart? I don't know, I feel So is going to break her heart....
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134 pogo
October 5, 2016 at 3:14 PM
Also, quick question - HOW is Baek-ah able to get on a horse at all right after being stabbed?
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LYF
October 5, 2016 at 7:30 PM
It's one of those drama rules again. Characters recuperate from severe injuries at magical rates because the plot requires it.
It's a pity though, especially cause ML was very realistic in showing Hae-soo's permanent limp after getting tortured.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:06 PM
Yeah, Yo better come back from the dead with some kind of permanent disability or I call no fair. That cliff was HIGH!
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 11:30 PM
Well, he fell in a river and since those princely baths in the intro scenes appear to be deep enough to drown in, I assume he can swim.
I mean, stab wounds don't appear to stop Goryeo royals doing whatever they like afterwards, look at Baek-ah here. It should be a piece of cake for Yo to just wash up somewhere.
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kumoiwa
October 6, 2016 at 12:00 AM
My speculation is that Park Yeong-gyu (his equally conniving father-in-law) was there to catch him with a net before they stormed the palace within two weeks because possible broken limbs/concussions/injuries you get from falling off cliffs don't stop Goryeo royals from doing the usurpation stuff they want to do, yo.
Nah but really I'm thinking that Wook is triple crossing Mu and Co. and he's their main link back to the palace.
135 youcallitwinter
October 5, 2016 at 3:26 PM
Also, as much as I remember from reading the earlier comments, isn't the 14th Prince supposed to be significant? I'm fairly sure we're going to see him upping his game now as well. We were all sort of disappointed by the campy Jisoo (and I still think it's probably the director), but angsty Jisoo is much in his element, and I honestly cannot wait.
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pogo
October 5, 2016 at 3:33 PM
I wonder what's going to be up with Jung now, I was hoping he'd continue on the path of reluctantly accepting So and defending him against his mother and brother, but it looks like he's going to hold a grudge over the fact that So stabbed Yo and sent him over a cliff.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 3:53 PM
Unfortunately, though he seems to be being set up for a more a serious role, I can't take this actor seriously. If he starts showing jealousy or enters the fray for Hae Su's heart or hand, I'll just be annoyed. Especially with less than half the show to go, he'll be yet another distraction. Apologies to Ji Soo fans but for me he's been a decided weak point of the drama. Maybe the guy can't help it - his face is just so sloppy friendly looking, he's like a big approval-seeking puppy to me. He and Baek Hyun are the weakest actors on set, but at least Baek Hyun has a good role. Ji Soo's Jung just seems like an add-on to show that yet one more prince was in love with Hae Su. The idea of him as a general fighting off pirates at this point is just laughable. He hasn't established himself as strategic, smart, serious, military, ruthless - just a sweet-natured guy who is good at martial arts.
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Anita
October 5, 2016 at 5:58 PM
You mean Ji Soo is one of the many weak points on this show. Ji Soo is a good actor but the writing is not helping him and historical dramas may not be for right for him as a actor. Sageuk is not a easy genre that just anyone can do.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 7:17 PM
I agree the writing has not helped. The role he is playing in Fantastic is better for him, though one has to wonder how far he can stretch.
junah
October 7, 2016 at 1:15 AM
this shows barely survive with triangle, now they want to make square ?? if they want to make HS leaving in peace, make it with Baek-ah, at least their chemistry more believable. 14th prince just too far late in introduction. sigh,sigh, this drama...
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Nayour
October 5, 2016 at 4:18 PM
Yes he is, if we're following the source material, I mean. The Chinese version only focuses on 5 princes essentially, and only these princes have story arcs with the heroine. They are 4th, 8th, 10th, 13th and 14th respectively. (something I wish this drama did as well instead of parading all 8 princes all around together)
As far as this drama goes, they've been quite loyal to the source material in the sense of their characters' relationship with the heroine. 10th was her first friend in this strange and new world, 8th was her brother-in-law turned ex-lover, 13th was her best friend slash comrade, and 4th is her true love. So I'm guessing they'll go the same route with 14th, whom I can see them vaguely try to set up that way but like I can't see it working in this current context though.
The scene that SBS cut out which was in the international version, of Jung and Hae Su was very telling that they're going that direction with his character, but I feel like it'll just be butchered by the poor execution.
13th prince was my fave in the first half of the Chinese drama, and 14th was my fave in the second half. I legit shipped Ruo Xi with them harder than I did with the two leads. I've been quite disappointed with how shortchanged Baek Ah's story has been, so I'm even more worried about how they'll execute Jung's. No more fill in the blanks please.
Also fun fact: in an interview the cast did, they were all asked if they watched the original, those who did (Baek Hyun, Ji Soo and Nam Joo Hyuk, if I remember correctly) all thought 14th prince was the best character. That's how much of a fan favourite he was.
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136 Leavy
October 5, 2016 at 3:48 PM
Am I the only one who wonders why WS would not marry HS?? He definitely wanted it and they are supposed to have at least 1 peaceful year during Mu's reign, with HS accepting WS's love (as per preview). There is no apparent reason for HS to reject him, is there? The only thing I can imagine is that she dates him and so on but is not yet sure that her feelings is true love?? please tell me I'm wrong..
and all those strategic marriages(( I can understand if it happens for some serious reasons later, after their love is established, but it's hard to imagine how they are supposed to build relationships based on fact WS is married even if it is only formal marriage to a kid??
Anyway, I waited so long for sweet moments for our main couple, but now when I finally see it in the preview I can't help feeling sad, because love in the air means bad times are coming. It's really crazy hahaha. Worrying about what happened and what will happen or even will not happen to So&Soo became my main daily agenda ㅋㅋㅋ If I didn't find Dramabeans I would thought I got crazy and see some doctor haha
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137 Coma
October 5, 2016 at 6:01 PM
I could easily spend my day reading about MLSHR discussions. Thank you for existing, Dramabeans! Sometimes the Internet really does come through. So much entertainment, for free.
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swati
October 6, 2016 at 12:04 AM
+10000000
I am obsessed with this show.
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Puni
October 6, 2016 at 6:23 PM
Ditto! Thank God for dramabeans..only way to manage MLSH withdrawals.
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138 Tifa
October 5, 2016 at 6:06 PM
Oof. I was lead to believe we'd be given 21 episodes! Also what is wrong with me, this week's utterly disastrous episodes should have trampled my love for this show by now, but I cannot bring myself to despise it. I should care that my brain cells are being fried for it, by conveniently ignoring its flaws, but I don't. At all. I am deeply bothered, what is happening to me.
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swati
October 6, 2016 at 12:05 AM
Check the pic at begin of the Recap. I guess that will explain ur lack of despise :)
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139 hansa
October 5, 2016 at 6:36 PM
Did anyone notice similarities between Wang so and Baek ah? They are very protective of their people.Both of them are ready to risk their lives to protect the women they love, righteous in making decisions and don't let their loyalties shift... And they don't hesitate to show their affection even if the receiving party is not 100% willing..you cant help but fall I love with their bromance..
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banini
October 5, 2016 at 8:05 PM
Yup.
Wang So drinking poisoned tea = Baek Ah volunteering himself to the sword
They are really of the same kind when it comes to women. Even the kiss thing. Baek Ah was just luckier to have a more receptive partner, me even thinks he g
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banini
October 5, 2016 at 8:09 PM
(sorry, got cut off)
...me thinks Baek Ah even got more than a kiss ;-)
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baek
October 5, 2016 at 9:48 PM
seriously?! i think a kiss is already more than what i could had accepted.. the pace is too fast (not the liking since theres a 1 year gap.. but from the point of assassination to the truth of their identity and past and the passing away of the king..) not like they had lots of time to cool down or make up or even do some proper thinking..
i was expecting at least some huge denial or some serious awkwardness at the beginning when the truth was out (but they dont seems to be showing that much..)
isnt it one of the highlights or interesting things to look at how they resolved their conflict being the descendant of the two extreme royal/king and how do they end up together (or not)..
if they just get together so easily (even for a 1nightstand), im sort of disappointed..
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banini
October 5, 2016 at 10:43 PM
Yes, that angle could have been given more weight, heck, that lady tried to kill your father but after just a brief talk all is well and she is suddenly an ally. But maybe there's just not enought episodes to address that. It is even qualified as material for a drama of its own.
We are left to just believe that love and friendship, which developed in a year between her and Baek Ah/Hae Su, made her forgive what happened in the past and consider them even. From there we, together with the characters are nudged to move forward and let the narative flow towards its main destination. I am willing to forgive the show for that since I also would like to move on already.
*spoiler*
If speculation are right that So/Su/Baek
Ah would be exiled in Yo's reign, I think this team will go to Woo Hee and make ally of Woo Hee's clan somehow.
baek
October 6, 2016 at 1:32 AM
haha.. i understand they arent the main char storyline / love interest.. but they bother to shape up the respective character & relationship (yet with the not-much-people-can-understand-how-that-happened-pace of their development is like the writer slapping themselves in their own face..) a little wasted there on the inconsistencies..
anyway i guess im ranting because i feel a little forced having to digest that (waited for several ep to see their relationship and everytime that woo-hee appear is for revenge purpose.. things seems to settle too easily over this ep haha..)
That spoiler seems plausible.. haha.. got to wait next week for new ep =(
140 rochinipark
October 5, 2016 at 6:48 PM
Great thing the preview for next episode shoes Wang Yo back with his guyliner and scrappy hair. So the show looks like will stick to history but it gets me to wonder whether would he not kill Wang So seeing he almost killed him.Perhaps Wang So actually arranged for Wang Yo to be collected from the cliff of doom.
LJK is just be best. I hope the shows continued success internationally will bring LJK to my part of SouthEastAsia.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 7:20 PM
Yo with the lion mane is kinda funny, but couldn't help but find him much hotter, finally looks like a man to be taken seriously instead of a petulant kid with eyeliner.
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swati
October 6, 2016 at 12:06 AM
He still seems like school bully to me :) but a hotter bully now :P
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141 tumisk
October 5, 2016 at 6:57 PM
hello all ..... I am happy to see the wonderful comments and expectations for relationships so-soo and the others, including myself that wishing a happy ending. But probably not as easy as it was to realize that beautiful relationship. There Will be many obstacles and barriers.
There are still a few more episodes before the wonderful things that happen but does it also surely materialize? ..... I was a little anxious to see episode per episode, so intensel. Yet this is the only serial and ispectacles hahahaha ..... but this could make us drift in the story. In fact I have watched the Chinese version and sometimes comparing the story. Quite a bit depressing ending and made floating depending on the perception of each spectator. I hope not for this Korean version.
Here we had many discussions about all of the possibilities of the story, while the writer and the director may simply smile and a hearty laugh ya see it all .... hohoho means they succeed in making this series, both of storyline and players. yayyyy
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142 jaepooh
October 5, 2016 at 7:15 PM
To be honest, I'm a bit worried with Hae Soo and her limp. I thought that was only when she was working long hours or near water... maybe stressful situations also affect her leg? I hope that gets better because I am honestly distracted.
In any case, that last scene was very beautiful. All I can see is that Wang So is not the bloody King just yet, or maybe he never will be as long as Hae Soo is around. Because ever since it's just the two of them, he has always been gentle and sweet as a puppy. He doesn't have a very wide array of emotions but he's also not evil. Not yet. I'm still hoping he never will be.
And Hae Soo is beginning to see that - or has finally accepted that. Here is a person who cries after killing someone (even though said someone is a blood brother who doesn't even treat him as one). He might have held grudge but he's human enough to feel sadness and/or remorse.
I'm all for this drama. There are 7 more episodes left.. not to mention more time jumps and hairdo changes. I'm just worried that because there's only so little time left, and so many more arcs that need to happen, we'll be presented again with time skips that doesn't leave a mark when and where they should have. It would have been nice if this was a 40 episode drama, because by then we'd be able to understand the other characters and their relevance - if there is. At least we won't feel they're just fillers or PPLs and whatnot.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM
Here's the thing: they can easily make this the epic romance, tying in the historical facts with the original BBJX themes and plots, that this promised to be in the seven hours remaining. A two hour movie could do it. But the way they've paced and edited to date, not to mention how they handled the one time jump so far, are far from promising and give me a sinking feeling abouf how the rest of the series will play out.
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jaepooh
October 5, 2016 at 9:03 PM
I'm extremely worried that one time jump will happen again. But I'm still looking forward to Mondays and Tuesdays because there's still so much more waiting to happen. I didn't watch the C version but I looked it up and the 40-episode list was enough for me to know it's an epic....
It doesn't help that they have two versions released every week as well. The struggle of watching and keeping up with this drama is real because I feel like the writing and the editing are a little short of... schizophrenic?
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143 tumisk
October 5, 2016 at 7:56 PM
in my opinion, the real story of this series is all about romance and love with a background Goryeo kingdom, throne and power, not more than that. If there are similarities or differences with its own history, is okay. Just like the other films in the various countries, which series or not.
Clearly, we as viewers hope that this series is a happy ending.
Just like when joon gi played in SWWTN series, at the ending, the girl remained with vampire joon gi. Though vampire joon gi is dead.
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144 pickledplumtree
October 5, 2016 at 8:16 PM
The king made me mad.
He thought of Su as a daughter but treated her like a villian. I understand why he'd be weary of her being close to his sons (she sure did affect them), but otherwise, he was too much.
And it just really grinded my gears that he only cared about Mu and So being alright on his deathbed, because they are meant to be kings. Perhaps empire's founder still only cared about the future of his empire, but it didn't seem that way. He had regrets. He thought of his true love. I am ticked at him for creating an empire and a world where his children would be each others' worst enemies. I wish he'd reflected on that, and realized what a doofus he was for not fostering a greater sense of familial love and loyalty. Even if the empire was a great and important thing, couldn't he have created a culture where everyone accepted the crown prince, and the family worked to protect and care for one another? I know that these plots and animosities really happen with royal families in many kingdoms historically, but King Dad didn't even TRY. So I hope he doesn't R.I.P. *End of rant*
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swati
October 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM
Bang On... U nailed the King and his stupidity.
I think the king never actually reflected on things he has done. Its like he was really power hungry and that's all he always thought about.
Even when Court Lady Oh took the blame he was like "R u throwing me away". Like really... she is about to embrace death and is sick. All the king thinks of is him...
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145 ftstorm
October 5, 2016 at 10:07 PM
Hey guys, I don't know if someone already mentioned this, but if you think that So said he wanted to be king to win Hae Soo's heart, then you are misreading his words.
"What if you were to become the king? Would you still leave?"
"If I were the king, would you leave with me?"
This is rethorical speech. His answer is focused in the "would you leave" and not in the "If you become the king".
"If I become king, would the heart I so desire become mine?"
This is sarcastic speech. His answer is mocking the power "that can get you anything" Yeon Hwa mentioned.
What he was saying was that it doesn't matter if he wins the throne. That power is so meaningless to him that he can either stay or leave, always if Hae Soo is with him.
The thing is, Wang So knows Hae Soo really well, so he's sure that she doesn't want him to be king neither she would love him just because he chooses to become him. This is why he offers her marriage.
His marriage proposal is based on what he thinks it's best for her. It's been a year and he came back to find her sad, still upset and alone, away from all the people she knows. Wang So sees that she isn't happy in the palace and offers her a way out.
In contrast with Wook, he would actually do it and Hae Soo knows this too. She knows him almost as well as he knows her (almost, because I doubt she realizes the magnitude of his love). That's why she rejects him even though she desperately wants to leave. She rejects him because she knows he's Gwangjong, because in the past she has also taken lightly what were important decisions and it brought harsh consequences.
Hae Soo has learned to not make fool decisions driven by emotions, which is exactly what Wang So was offering. It's not that he wouldn't be able to fill his promise, it's that she doesn't want to choose wrong again (plus, when he makes the proposal Soo still trusts in Wook a bit).
Anyways. Wang So confirms his thoughts about Hae Soo and the throne in the scene with both of them looking at the empty seat together.
Conclusion: He understand hers. They understand each other.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
That's what I'm understanding too. He doesn't want to be king with the throne as a goal, though he once thought (notice he spoke in the past tense) he needed that power to rescue Su. However, I do hope they haven't completely erased So's bad ass attitude and we see him go for it fiercely when it means either him or Yo.
I've thought about that scene with Eun being his last straw maybe. What's on his face when he swings that blade at Eun? Bloodthirst, or anguish over what he has to do and anger at the one - likely Yo - who has made him do it? That might be the point when So earnestly desires to be king in order to overthrow Yo. Just a speculation.
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Seltzerwater
October 5, 2016 at 11:57 PM
Nice reading! I think this is along the lines of what happened too. And Su has been drawing further and further back from Wook, using her noggin to test him instead of blindly believing whatever he has to offer. She's doing the same with Wang So, which hurts us romantically, but offers consistent motives, which I appreciate. She has been offered marriage before, by Wook, and look how that turned out. It's fair for her to be gun shy. She's definitely more than a little invested in Wang So, the panic attack when she tells him to stay away from her and to forget her. If we can look at action and not words, Hae Su has stayed true. Like laundry scene, when LGJ back hugs IU, the acting directions were very clear: hold your breath when he hugs you, let go when he says "I miss you." I mean, if that's not yearning idk what is. And that's what I like about the show, when Hae Su and Wang So are being honest with each other, they're totally true blue and star crossed.
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Maui
October 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM
Yes, I agree with you....it's alot easier for So to marry Soo but So is also Gwangjong, and altering someone who was that important in history could have big consequences.....What would have happened to India without Gandhi etc....
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146 kumoiwa
October 5, 2016 at 10:43 PM
On a happier note, I'm so happy that Su gets to wear her beautiful hanboks again next episode. The colour combinations she gets are always super gorgeous, props to the costume department for that.
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Maui
October 7, 2016 at 3:34 PM
Cheers to that!....I want to see So taken care of again, especially her health, and leg.....
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147 charie
October 5, 2016 at 10:48 PM
I don't know about you, but I have no problems with So wanting to be king because of Su, among others. Can someone tell me what is so wrong about it? Many seems to be explaining his words, what if, he really meant it, and we just failed to acknowledge it, just like how we failed to see that show wants us to see Wook's want for the throne. Because later on, we all know So will want to be king.
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JiaYou
October 5, 2016 at 10:56 PM
Maybe because it's shallow? But then again, nobody wants the throne for the sake of the Goryeo people either. They all want it for their own twisted reason.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:54 PM
Ha! Yeah, wouldn't it be refreshing if one of them actually even seemed to care about the people?
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 1:07 AM
The only characters to bring up the ordinary Goryeo people are actually Baek-ah and So (Baek-ah brought it up that if they were princes and treated this way, what must the life of an average Goryeo citizen be like).... and So pointing out to Jung that the man who'd tried to take a machete to his arm had been ruined by association with him.
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JiaYou
October 6, 2016 at 1:28 AM
No one thinks of the future of Goryeo people as their motivator to the throne. Poor them. Literally and figuratively.
Lin_K
October 6, 2016 at 12:55 AM
I know, it's very sad. I watched a movie recently called, I Am King. It's a funny movie with Lee Ji Hoon and Lee Honey. He is a prince who likes to read and keep to himself with no interest in politics. When circumstances force him to be the crown prince, he runs away from the palace and live as a commoner. That experience became an eye opener for him, and he returned to the palace to rule his subjects wisely and justly.
Can I make a reference to Arang and the Magistrate too? I love that drama too much. Sorry for numerous references to it. In that, Eun Oh starts out as a nobleman who doesn't care about anyone but himself. And he could have cared less of people from lower class. He was tricked into being a Sato; otherwise, he would never have become one. But as the drama progresses, we see him fighting the bad guy in the village to better the lives of common people. He becomes a just Sato.
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charie
October 6, 2016 at 1:26 AM
Hehehe, maybe so. I just think there is nothing wrong with having such a motivation, among his other motivations to be king, because I do not think if ever So did want to be king, it won't be entirely about Su. And as per wiki, Gwangjong went on to do some good things for Goryeo, like emancipation of slaves, etc.
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charie
October 6, 2016 at 1:31 AM
EDIT: I mean, So's motivation if he ever wants to be king will not be entirely about Su.
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Barbrey
October 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM
I don't think he wants to be king but I'd have no trouble with him if he did, as long as it's not at the expense of betraying his brothers - first - before they betray him. I think part of Su's journey is to understand that history can only tell the bare facts, and the human reasons and emotions behind historical fact and decisions are part of the total equation too.
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Maui
October 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM
So could play a really important part as a wife to Gwangjong, a Queen that actually cares about the people and a King who listens to that wife.....especially knowing what a world with more rights for people would look like.....
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148 Lee
October 5, 2016 at 11:05 PM
Man, MLSHR sure has a lot of brainy viewers! I love it.
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149 Coco M.
October 5, 2016 at 11:11 PM
This week's episodes felt so disjointed, and that makes me really, really sad. I deeply invested in this show, I keep rooting for it to do well.
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Coco M.
October 6, 2016 at 4:51 AM
*I am deeply invested
/damn it
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150 Kara
October 5, 2016 at 11:31 PM
I am going to abandon logic for this show. I don't care. Show, I am your slave.
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pogo
October 6, 2016 at 12:00 AM
lol are you me?
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jaepooh
October 6, 2016 at 12:21 AM
exactly what's in my head for the past 7 weeks
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IvoryLight
October 6, 2016 at 5:39 AM
Bahahah. Sameeeee.
If they said they were releasing a blue ray/hd version of this whole thing I would be first in line screaming at them to take my money.
Not sure when this show started owning my @ss but there you go, that's life. Oh wait, no I remember now..it was when LJG galloped onto my screen, had some intense eye-sex with IU on the back of his horse and then promptly tossed her off. Somewhere along there.
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banini
October 6, 2016 at 9:36 AM
Yup, yup, yup!!! When Wang So scooped Hae Su out of harms way, he scooped my heart too :-D
Still so vivid to me... the flowy hair, black robe, chiseled face, like the stallion and the rider were one... such a force! Really made my heart skip a beat... or two... or several haha!
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Jamie Opso
October 7, 2016 at 10:49 AM
Intense eye-sex...and incredibly suggestive movement (due to the horse's galloping). Ahem. *tugs at collar because it suddenly got warm in here*
Now that's a close-up used really effectively. :D
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Lemon Meringue
October 6, 2016 at 9:56 PM
Fellow slave here
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pineapplegongzhu
October 7, 2016 at 3:38 PM
I'd like to be a part of the harem of slaves....
Gosh, man....men on horse with flowing manes and masks and bad-boy/wounded-puppy attitudes....Byronic hero notwithstanding. Please, just take me now.
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Junkikills
October 8, 2016 at 3:00 AM
Count me in.
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