Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 5
by HeadsNo2
Our heroine gets put through the wringer when it comes to history this hour, and manages to be pretty darn entertaining while she’s at it. Her flailing around provides some much-needed (and honestly surprising) levity during an episode rife with confused feelings and repressed emotions. I laughed, I cried, I cursed at certain characters for being awful people. It may not be perfect, but it’s fun.
EPISODE 5 RECAP
The princes, dressed ceremonially, look on as King Taejo pays his respects to the ancestral tablets of kings past. What’s important is that So is counted among the princes, and it’s clear by the queen’s glare toward him that she is not happy about it.
But rather than choose to live in his designated palace quarters, So brings his things to Astronomer Choi’s tower, much to the man’s dismay. Despite the astronomer’s arguments, So claims he can’t see the sky from his room the way he can here in the tower, and smiles at the thought of what Su said about being able to see the stars in Goryeo.
Lady Hae presents Su with a host of medicinal herbs courtesy of eighth prince Wook, since she’d expressed interest in them before. Su is delighted, and mixes a concoction together to create soap for both Lady Hae and the queen. Wook watches from afar, a smile lighting his face.
His wife doesn’t miss this look from him, but only mentions how happy Su is, and how much she’s changed since her injury—for the better, in most respects. But when Lady Hae mentions that she wants to find a good husband for Su, Wook’s face turns unreadable. He only agrees with his wife’s wish to keep Su around for as long as possible.
Lady Hae sees the change in her husband’s expression, and looks from him to Su. Next thing we know, she’s asked Su to meet her in the library… only when Su enters, it’s not her cousin she sees, but Wook. This is cute and disturbing all at once.
Wook decides that being politely dismissive is the best course of action, and goes about his work as best he can. Unfortunately, Su is too awkward to just ignore, so he has to speak up in order to guide her to the ink she was supposed to fetch for her cousin.
This requires Su to come closer to Wook at his writing desk, where she becomes transfixed with his calligraphy. He notices her staring awkwardly and smiles, telling her that it’s a poem originally penned by the famous Chinese poet Tao Yuanming, and that he’s including it in the letter he’s written for his wife (since she always sends a poem along).
He suddenly asks her whether she likes poems or songs more, but he’s surprised when she answers that she likes songs, which were more popular with commoners than poetry, which required literacy. She realizes this belatedly and changes her answer to the much more ladylike “poems,” which gives Wook pause. When did she learn to make ink, anyway?
Wook decides to give her a poem instead, instructing her to read it carefully. Is he, by chance, testing her? Su has no hope of being able to read the complex Hanja characters, and she’s severely misguided if she thinks that her slave Chae-ryung will be able to read it, which she can’t.
Su tries her best to figure the poem out one character at a time, only to bemoan the fact that she’s as good as illiterate in this time period. After spending a moment cooing over how the characters are written as handsomely as their writer, she falls back into her illiterate lamentations, which thirteenth prince Baek-ah overhears.
“Are you illiterate?” he asks. Su claims that she totally does know how to read, she just conveniently forgot when she hit her head. Baek-ah begins to read for her, only to be interrupted by the arrival of Lady Hae, who finishes the poem from memory. The poem is by Liu Yuxi, entitled “Song of Bamboo Branch,” and one of the lines is, “Hark and I hear on the river, songs from my love, my beau.”
When Baek-ah asks if Su understands what the poem means, she looks at it from the surface level only, guessing that because it mentions willows and water, it must be about nature. His expression grows grave when she innocently reveals that Wook gave the poem to her.
Lady Hae seems happy that he gifted her such a poem, and tells Su to prepare to visit the queen tomorrow to gift her the soap she made. When Su’s gone, Baek-ah gets angry with his brother on his sister-in-law’s behalf, since the poem is a love poem. “Is my brother in his right mind?” he all but bellows.
He calms considerably when he sees Lady Hae’s shaking hand go to her chest, figuring out that she already knows how Wook feels. Instead of answering, she only asks Baek-ah to finish a drawing he was preparing for her. It sounds like she’s on a timeline, and Baek-ah realizes this, despite not wanting to acknowledge it.
Su tries to parse out the poem based on what she heard, but isn’t able to get very far in figuring out its true meaning. Or rather, she doesn’t want to acknowledge that there’s another meaning to it, and tries to convince herself to think of Wook in non-romantic ways.
The next day, she’s all smiles as she travels with Lady Hae to the palace. Wook admires the wonder in her eyes as she takes in all the sights, smiling.
Queen Sinjeong, Wook’s mother, pays a visit to the surly Queen Sinmyeongsunseong, and the two share barbed comments about whose son is superior in scholarly pursuits. Queen Sinjeong shares her desire to get medicine for her daughter-in-law from one of the concubines, which Queen Sinmyeongsunseong sneers at—the concubine is nothing more than a court lady, and she certainly is no doctor.
They’re interrupted by the arrival of Lady Hae, Wook, and Su. Queen Sinjeong is happy to see them, especially Su, but Queen Sinmyeongsunseong only knows Su from the bruise she gave the tenth prince, Eun.
Su gives Queen Sinjeong a box of her handcrafted soap, and struggles hilariously to speak properly in front of her, eliciting a muffled laugh from Wook. Queen Sinmyeongsunseong, who wasn’t doing her best in hiding her dismay in not receiving a gift, tries to act nonchalant when Su gives her a box of soap.
Since Queen Sinmyeongsunseong can’t be happy about anything, she lands a barb about Wook and her rival queen’s daughter-in-law being childless, but before she can go on, they receive another visitor: King Taejo.
Su’s eyes grow as big as saucers as she beholds the founder of Goryeo, who she’s only ever seen in dramas before (hah). She can’t help but gape at him, but the king instantly recognizes her as the girl who got into a fight with Eun. Wook tries to defend her, but the king isn’t having it.
Su’s first line of defense is to fall to her knees and beg forgiveness, but when that elicits a less than favorable response from the king, she realizes something vital: Tyrants feed off fear, but wise kings value virtue. So when the king asks her if she’s afraid of him, she rises to answer that she isn’t afraid, since she knows him to be a good and wise king.
This seems to please Taejo somewhat, but when he asks her why she thinks he’s wise, she’s without an answer. It just lands her in hotter water now that the king thinks she was using empty flattery, so Su racks her brain to think of something to say… and comes up with the baseline bits of history she knows about Taejo, like how he united the three kingdoms, founded a new nation, etc.
The king laughs, and Su inwardly thanks her junior high school history teacher for making her memorize these facts, when she used to curse her for it. Hah! The king rewards her with a fine rug, and Wook prods her to thank him. She launches into a parody of sageuk when she does, causing even more laughter. They must think she’s absolutely insane.
Once out of there, Su goes running around for a restroom, the nerves finally getting to her. Just as she’s about to use something that’s probably not a bathroom, she’s stopped by none other than So, sporting a more refined hairdo and mask.
She takes one look at him in wonder, noting that no one would see him as anything other than a prince now. He quips back that he’s always been a prince, but then turns the subject back to her, and what she’s doing at the palace.
They share a brief but friendly conversation about So’s adaptation to palace life, though it becomes clear that Su thinks he has a much better relationship with his family than he actually does. She realizes just the opposite is true when she spots his mother coming and hides within perfect earshot to hear his mother spew vitriol at him.
Even so, So thanks her for her her concern and remains cordial. When he turns around to find Su, she’s already gone, feeling awkward about having overheard them.
Lady Hae alarms her mother-in-law when she coughs up blood in front of her, but she quickly falls to her knees to remind the queen that she’d once promised to honor any request she made.
Queen Sinjeong grasps her beloved daughter-in-law’s hands and asks what she wants, but is taken completely aback when Lady Hae asks her to accept Su as Wook’s wife. If she didn’t know before, Queen Sinjeong knows now that Lady Hae doesn’t have much time left.
While on her way back with Wook, Su spots Astronomer Choi, recognizing him as the homeless man from her time. She grabs him by the shoulders to ask if he recognizes her. Doesn’t he remember the drink they had together?
The astronomer just shakes his head, and hilariously imitates Su’s whole-body shaking as he imitates her whining about having looked all over for him with a similarly whiny, “But I don’t know you, Agasshi.” She insists he does, reminding him that the last time he saw her was one thousand years in the future.
“Be careful,” he warns her, and for a moment, it seems like he’s warning her because he’s in on the secret. But his words are eerily similar to his future counterpart’s as he tells her, “If you ended up living here, you should abide by the norms here. Your life can’t change just because you want it to.” Then he winks at her. It is him!
After their meeting, Su trudges after Wook in the heavy snow, with him occasionally looking back to check on her with a smile. She doesn’t seem to notice that he’s caught onto the fact that she keeps stepping in his footsteps (either for fun or to make it easier for her to walk), but he’s there to catch her the second she stumbles. Likely because he made his steps wider just for fun.
He asks her about Astronomer Choi, though she claims that she only thought she knew him. She offers him a bar of soap she made just for him, saying that she did it to thank him for all that he’s done for her—even the poem.
Wook takes the gift with gratitude before asking if she’s discerned the meaning behind the poem. Su recites what she knows from it, claiming only that it was beautiful. Wook can’t help but laugh, seeming to know that she didn’t truly understand it, but advises her to respond with a poem of her own. It’s only proper etiquette, of course.
That night, Su sits down with a brush and paper, trying her best to copy the characters from another page. It’s useless, and she soon gives up on the endeavor. She can’t even begin to wonder how she’ll compose a reply… but then a smile lights her face as she thinks of something.
Instead of writing a poem, she draws a reply, and eagerly leaves it on Wook’s desk where he’s most likely to see it. But she’s greeted instead by all the princes and Princess Yeonhwa, and the eager tenth prince Eun is quick to snatch up the letter she left.
Su sends a pleading look Wook’s way, but he can only move his eyebrows by way of silent response—it’s like they’re kids having to hide notes in class. Luckily, he steps in before she can be completely humiliated, and gives her leave to go, though it means admitting that she was responding to a poem he gave her.
This makes thirteenth prince Baek-ah decidedly unhappy, and Wook is powerless to stop Eun and fourteenth prince Jung from opening her letter and finding what they can only decipher as gibberish on it. It’s not a poem or a drawing. Is that… an emoji?
The princes each take a turn trying to figure out what the strange symbol (\^0^/) means, with Wook being the most puzzled of all. Omg, I’m dying. It’s So who tells Eun how to raise his arms and contort his face to mimic the symbol in the drawing. Hahahahahaha! He is WAY ahead of the times.
Everyone has a good laugh at this, as So recognizes the drawing as a face laughing with excitement—Su must have been pretty happy to receive Wook’s poem. Jung also tries to mimic the expression, much to everyone’s amusement.
Baek-ah is less than thrilled, and pulls Su aside when he finds her. He asks her how she could do this to Lady Hae, though she doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about.
“You steal glances at each other,” he accuses her. “If your hands happened to brush, you [two] would reflect upon that for days. I’m sure the thoughts of ‘What sort of food would that person like, what would make that person laugh’ would likely never leave your mind. Anything you see would make you think of him. How you and Wook would fuss over one another! Did you think that no one would find out?”
He grows more and more upset as he goes on, leading Su to look fearfully up at him. It’s only when he tells her that Lady Hae knows everything that’s been going on that she looks absolutely stunned into silence. Baek-ah warns her against interfering in Lady Hae and Wook’s relationship, threatening that he won’t stand idly by if she hurts Lady Hae.
Wook is standing there when he turns to leave, and soon the two forbidden lovebirds are left alone together. They both apologize to each other, though Wook says it’s not her fault—he’s the one who gave her a poem and received hers in an effort to make her laugh. “It’s all my fault,” he adds gravely. “Don’t blame yourself.”
But she does, because she knows that her complicity and silence didn’t help matters. She knew what was going on but hoped things would resolve on their own, even though she made advances of her own, like taking his hand, or leaving her room that night when she pretended to be asleep at first.
Tears spring to Wook’s eyes as he tells her not to say things like that, and tears fall down her own cheeks as she apologizes for always crying when she’s with him. She bows in apology and leaves, going home to hide the poem he gave her within the pages of a book.
Likewise, Wook locks away the soap she gave him in a box. The metaphor is clear, but it still makes me sad.
Princess Yeonhwa visits her father the king to gift him a silk pillow she embroidered. King Taejo loves the gift, but the talk soon turns to marriage, and how one of his daughters by Queen Sinmyeongsunseong, Princess Naklang, was married and left the palace.
Though Yeonhwa tries to hide her true emotions behind smiles and kind words, she’s unhappy at the thought of a potentially unwanted marriage. She brightens at the sight of her half-brother, So, noting that she’s still unused to seeing him in the palace.
She mentions that their father is planning to marry her off, but when So asks who, third prince Yo interrupts with a haughty, “You don’t think it’s you, do you?” He’s… teasing his half-brother over being too ugly to marry their half-sister?
When Yo asks Yeonhwa if she could stand to look at So’s ugly mug forever, Yeonhwa demurs by saying that she only wants a man who will cherish her. Yo’s quick to say that he would regard her as an empress since her potential husband would need to know her value in order to treasure her, but she’s more interested in So’s reaction.
So refuses to put a value on her (nice), and says that he wants a woman who would treasure him, and one who would think nothing of his face. Yo just scoffs at his reaction, claiming that he’s just like an animal. Yeonhwa smiles, seeing it as a challenge: “How fun would it be to turn an animal into a human?” Ack, stop it.
Su finds Lady Hae burning clothes and trinkets that seem precious to her, and intervenes only when she finds her cousin coughing blood. Lady Hae picks that time of all times to ask Su what her feelings are for Wook, but when Su goes quiet, she calls her foolish. Both of them are foolish.
With tears in her eyes and blood on her lips, Lady Hae then asks Su to do her makeup for her, one last time. “I want him to remember me as being beautiful,” Lady Hae adds, which is just heartbreaking.
Lady Hae studies Su as she prepares her makeup, and Su does her best to hold back her tears as she applies it. We hear what she doesn’t say aloud to Su, willing her to control her actions and temperament in the future, especially around the royal family. But most of all, she wills Su to be a good wife for her husband, and to be his “pillow,” someone he can depend on and somewhere to rest his head in order to help ease his many worries.
Su’s tears fall despite her attempts to smile, and Lady Hae’s cheeks grow wet as well. The two share a moment where it’s like they’re speaking to each other without words as Su brings color and brightness back to Lady Hae’s wan face.
Next thing we know, Su is rushing out to bring Wook to see Lady Hae. Despite how ill she is, Lady Hae still manages to walk with the support of her husband out in the snow. She reminisces about when they first met, prompting a flashback of her seeing, liking, and subsequently hiding from him.
She tells of how she was the one who pushed for marriage because she wanted to help him, since he was a prince who had been kicked out of the palace when they met.
In the present, Wook tells her he knows exactly how she feels. She reaches a hand up to touch his face with tears in her eyes. “Now… I want you to watch over Su,” she pleads. But soon, she’s doubled over in pain, and Wook has to carry her home on his back.
As he walks her home, Wook mentions how she’d said he didn’t love her before. He tries to amend that now, but Lady Hae stops him from finishing. “I was able to love you more,” she breathes. “That was enough.”
And then, she goes limp. Su, from behind, calls out for her cousin. Wook’s eyes fill with tears as the realization of her death hits him… or not. He turns and shushes Su: “Let us not wake my wife.” Oh. Oh no.
Su clasps both hands to her mouth to stifle her sobs as Wook walks on, carrying his dead wife.
COMMENTS
Gah, the whole “They’re just sleeping” thing gets me every time. I wish we would’ve gotten to hear the rest of what Wook had to say to Lady Hae, and if he was going to admit that he loved her—though, knowing her, she wouldn’t want him to say it so as not to feel guilty. Lady Hae presents an interesting picture overall though, especially since she deviated so far from the norm of what we’d expect to see.
Despite being a wife who desperately loved her husband, she also desperately wanted him to be happy, and was more than aware of her own mortality. Situations like this can easily come off as making the wife in the relationship look bad, but here, she actually came off as a bonafide saint. I was repeatedly surprised by just how selfless she was being, and found her relationship with her husband and Su as heartfelt as it was morbid and strange. It’s as confusing for the viewer as I’m sure it was for those three characters, but definite props are deserved for the story being much more immersive this hour.
It’s a tough day to be So as a romantic lead though, even if it feels like we’re setting up for the end of Wook and Su as we know it. Lady Hae’s death is bound to cause a shift of some kind, and it’d be way too easy for them to just be happy now that the main obstacle to their romance is gone. (I know this sounds clinical, but it’s true.) Years of dramas tells me that there’ll have to be some scaling back with the second lead in order to make room for the first, but I can’t help but like where we are now. Change is scary, even if it’s good.
Su was definitely much more endearing this hour, and I’d credit that to us seeing her sweat a little—her illiteracy and her thoroughly modern reply to Wook’s thoughtful poem was a hoot. But there were also deeper feelings going on, and not just between Wook and Su. I’m not quite sure what Baek-ah’s game is at this point, but he seems primed and ready to be the one prince (besides Yo, who hates everyone) to be a foil for Su, which gives him a whole new exciting layer. Slowly but surely, we’re getting to know each prince in turn, so I feel confident that no one’s going to get lost in the shuffle.
But how hilarious was it to see Su use what little she remembered from her history class to get on the king’s good side? These are the kind of fish-out-of-water moments I was missing, so I was glad to have them today. Watching her flail about spouting “Your grace is immeasurable!” to the king was enough to make my belly ache. And having So of all people discern the true nature of her emoji reply was priceless. If only we had gotten these moments sooner, maybe it would’ve changed some things. Alas, the most we can do is look forward to next week.
RELATED POSTS
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 4
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 3
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 2
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 1
- Here are alllllllll of your Moon Lovers
- Fire meets water in Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart: Goryeo
- Longing stares and lunar eclipses for Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart: Goryeo
- Scarlet Heart’s princes share bath time, games, and a lady love
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Tags: featured, Hong Jong-hyun, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
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51 seoqueen
September 6, 2016 at 8:20 PM
This ep actually sold me on the Su-Wook ship. But looks like that ship will crash pretty soon (based on next week's preview), and now I'm SAD. WHY. WHY DO THIS TO ME MLSHR!!! Oh well.. time to switch ships \^0^/
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 11:12 PM
We should probably just paint this on the helm of that ship: \^0^/
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Lin_K
September 10, 2016 at 1:31 AM
Haha, a lot of the viewers are using this emoji now. It's gonna be the trademark for this drama :)
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52 Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 8:22 PM
I don't usually fangirl out, in that I'm not a fan of any of the actors, or any actors at all, etc., but THIS SHOW IS JUST KILLING IT! I had a hard time waiting for this week's episodes, next week's will be even harder.
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DirectorsCutJuseyo
September 6, 2016 at 9:44 PM
I'm actually hoping they will release another DC this Saturday so that we have something to binge watch. I've been watching all previous episodes every chance I get and it doesn't get old.
Thanks to this recap and I was able to understand basically what happened while the subs were not available
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 10:03 PM
But where to find the directors cuts with english subs? People keep asking but i havent seen an answer yet. Did you see it with the subs?
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DirectorsCutJuseyo
September 6, 2016 at 10:50 PM
I haven't seen a subbed version but there are a lot of translation of added scenes available online or in twitter. It's just a matter of someone adding those translation into the added scenes. :D
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:33 PM
Omg your username me made laugh so hard hahahaha
pigsnout
September 6, 2016 at 11:14 PM
ur username ??
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:05 PM
Me too, I might complain about the OSTs but I can't help it, I'm well and truly hooked. The ratings are a shame, but the drama seems to be settling into its groove, and I can't wait for more- I actually watched this raw and then woke up early for the subs before going to work. Sleep? Pfft.
Also, Lee Jun-ki and Kang Ha-neul absolutely KILL me.
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endo
September 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM
Same here. I watched it Raw, Subbed and i'm gonna watch it with my husband again tonight. And i still feel excited. Aside from LJK and KHN. I'm really loving this drama and the characters.
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53 DangerousSnowPea
September 6, 2016 at 8:26 PM
Does anyone think So's character did a 180 from the first few episodes? He went from beheading horses and men to deciphering emojis in the span of several episodes...Also does anyone else think that Yo and his mom have weird sexual tension? I think it was episode 3 or 4 where Yo helps the queen after her bath, i swear it was unusually sexual.
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Ahri
September 6, 2016 at 8:41 PM
When he was smiling at his brothers' antics in ep 2, I knew there was something inside him. I think when he first arrived in the city he was still putting on this tough guy act that allowed him to survive when he was a hostage. He was bristling and being defensive to keep people away, and he was also very mad.
I think killing all those monks then his mom making it clear that she will absolutely not take him back no matter what he did, slapped some sense into him. He's not crazily desperate anymore, he knows there's zero hope for him. He's accepted defeat in that case, and his anger has deflated into sad acceptance. And the king has confirmed that he can stay at the palace instead of being sent back as a hostage, so he can drop the intimidating guy act for now, and just try to belong in that clique of princes. Kinda...relax, or as relaxing one can get in his situation.
Sorry for the long-ass reply, I am just so fascinated with 4th Prince's character!
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chocopieb
September 6, 2016 at 10:56 PM
The vibes that i get from so is simply that he wants to be accepted... which clearly he hadnt been able to receive since he got his scar.. Huge chances he had been 'bullied' since young because of his face.. During his scenes with the other princes in the earlier episodes it feels like he wants to blend in, but he doesnt know how..
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Rosepetal
September 6, 2016 at 9:04 PM
It's weird because I noticed that too, but then I realized that it just adds more depth to the character. I'm telling myself that So isn't always going to be a sad, pained man who goes on killing sprees to please his mom. He has moments where he smiles or where he has actual conversations with people (although that seems to be only with Ji Mong and Hae Su so far). And him being present with the other princes during that emoji scene is just an identification of him being part of that family.
What really got to me was how expressive So was. LJK adds so many expressions to this character and makes me feel that there is something that we aren't told about his character yet. I especially felt that when I saw how he could converse with Ji Mong so easily in the pilot episodes (as well as the scene where he takes over Ji Mong's room in the palace - they seem very close). This might go back to the question that was hinted in the first three episodes: So learned martial arts from someone but who? There is definitely something the writer is hiding from us that defines So.
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chocopieb
September 6, 2016 at 10:57 PM
I have a guess regarding his martial arts teacher! But i wonder if it counts as a spoiler ><
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Iluljk
September 7, 2016 at 1:34 AM
@chocopie
Arghhh you made me curious..i dont know if it is spoiler..but you can always put spoiler alert upfront...
Please feed my curiosity?? I like to hang-out here because they were so much theory to fill my brain in the time i have to wait for the next episode..
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chocopieb
September 8, 2016 at 8:02 AM
[potential spoiler....?]
i read in the r/s chart that sung dongil is wang so's people.. so i think there's a high chance he taught so martial arts! lol thats all xp
mary
September 7, 2016 at 2:11 AM
Theories and guesses don't count as spoiler. :) Guess away!
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Lin_K
September 10, 2016 at 2:08 AM
So likes his brothers and staying in the palace as opposed to going back to the Kangs. Even if his mother and (some of) his brothers treat him bad, he feels that he belongs with them. He does enjoy their company as he is seen hanging out with them for tea and talk.
I saw his expression change when Eun asked for his opinion about the emoji. He couldn't believe he was asked to contribute but he was happy to do so. He is not a closed up person who dislikes affection. He wants affection so badly. He wants to be treated as family. When people treat him nicely, he is nice to them too. He wants to be loving to everyone deep inside I think.
Also, when he decided to stop pleasing his mom, that lifted off a huge burden from his shoulders. I believe he got some sort of closure the nights he talked to his mom and when he was rebuilding the pillars. The tough exterior projected his pent up anger and frustration. When he started letting go of it, the soft side came outside. And he found Hae Soo to talk to :)
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ET
September 6, 2016 at 9:20 PM
I blamed the writing or directing or maybe both!
They aren't doing a good job with this character.
Make So look hawt and badass - cue So beheading horses and slicing up ninjas and monks.
Make So fall in love with Soo - cue So leaning in towards Soo and successfully deciphering her emoji. See, they are soulmates!
Either Ha Neul is a genius or somehow Wook & Soo's romance is done better.
You are also not the only one who thinks Yo and his mom have some weird sexual tension. Oedipus Complex?
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 12:57 AM
but So don't fall in love with Soo, not yet. their relationship is far from love
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sancheezy
September 6, 2016 at 9:29 PM
it' the forced plot by incomplete writing, just like what happen to Su
everybody acted like the plot needed but the plot doesn't have good development
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rei
September 6, 2016 at 9:51 PM
I would not be so quick to attribute it to bad writing, given the history of bad editing on the previous episodes where important precedents to plot points were cut or deleted.
Case in point: The conversation between Su and So at the prayer place about mothers (before So wiped out all the monk assassins and set the temple on fire).
It was cut on the "final" cut or The Episode that was aired on different territories and aired initially on SBS.
However, they decided to put it back on the "Director's Cut" version of episodes 1-3 aired as a marathon on Saturday of the pilot week.
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Lin_K
September 10, 2016 at 2:18 AM
There were important transitions cut off from episodes 1-3. They added them when they aired the episodes the second time over the weekend.
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:14 PM
I didn't feel it was inconsistent, really - he's been brutalised and neglected for years but still has a softer side, even when he's not wasting it on his mother.
The very public horse-killing was partly about his image and making a statement, but he still smiles at the sight of his younger brothers fooling around during practice, even if he quickly wipes it off his face when he catches Wook looking.
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Nayour
September 6, 2016 at 10:22 PM
Eww nooooo! Now that you put that image in my mind I can't unsee it now TT
For the sake of my sanity, I hope they don't put more unnecessary incest than there is. Like I'm already majorly struggling to not throw up over Yeon Hwa and her plans.
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM
I get your point but I think it kinda mirrors the Princess's when she says she wants to make a human out of an animal. She's pretty beastly herself, and because of that we know she's just plain wrong. Her idea of 'human' probably has more to do with manners than human kindness. Point being that So is already human. He's just been tortured past endurance.
I've seen many interpretations of the horse beheading scene. For all we know the animal was lame. My own interpretation comes from a Canadian/American expression, 'Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.'. Basically, So made a statement acknowledging that was what everyone would be thinking, while counter-stating he wouldn't be leaving. He's here to stay and killing the horse means he ain't riding out on the horse he rode in on. So fuck you all. As Su says to him after he kills the monks - you didnt do it for the fun of it, did you? The answer is no. So there was a reason beyond mere cruelty for him to kill the horse.
That's why I don't see this as a 180. He is cruel, and thoughtless, and arrogant with lots of vices, but from the beginning they've been emphasizing some of the reasons for these propensities. He is as dual natured as his father, who can operate as a tyrant preying on people's fears, or as a wise protective leader. The historical Wang So was both. The key to his attraction to Su is partly I think that she doesn't fear him, allowing him to show the better side of his nature, which has co-existed with the worse side from the beginning. We're just seeing the better side come to the fore in his interactions with people that don't fear him and who he is beginning to trust.
I absolutely did see an ugh factor with Yo and his mom. Whether that will play out further remains to be seen.
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Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 12:58 AM
I didn't see it as a 180 reversal. As @Barbrey pointed out, he's got that duality. He's cruel when he lashes out and kind when he thinks someone is worth it. Yes, he is got less of a cloud of doom over him now, but that's because he is being allowed to stay at home and not get thrown to the wolves (literally in his case!) I think that makes him more interesting, less one dimensional and also like someone from a more brutal time period.
Being able to interpret an emoji? That's just human intelligence and isn't really out of character. (also coz I am a massive geek I thought about it, and I think it's because he was further away and the other's were holding it up, so he got to see it from that angle, while the others were too close to it, to make sense of it. It might not be the case but that's what I thought:D)
And oh the mother and the son thing. Um...yeah, it was weird even though I told my brain to stop. The thing is, I think she has a strong sway over all her sons, in that they all want to please her (like there is nothing icky about jung and her but you can see he adores her and let's not get started on So's abandonment issues) but I don't know, it just got really creepy with Yo? (If it turns out to be just a weird editing/directorial glitch and we never see any of it again, I am not complaining!)
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:02 AM
On the queen and Yo, yes there was this weird sexual atmosphere but thankfully this is not Game of thrones. Thought the people made a huge bunch of memes to celebrate this ship. Complete hoot!
As for WS, I don't find his doing a 180 because the way i see - everyone keeps fearing him and saying oh! he is so evil/scary but i don't find him that way.
The horse killing was a statement and years of frustration
The monk killing was to prevent his mother from getting executed.
Someone said it in another recap, that he is basically very reactive. If you leave him alone, he does not do anything. Also, the fact that Jung/Yo have openly insulted him negates this whole evil image.
He laughs at his brothers antics, still hangs around them all the time despite them openly dissing him, changes places with the crown prince to fulfill a live debt and for a chance to live with family again, is more amused by HS's antics than angry at her insubordination - For me it all fits.
He is less of evil monster and more of a very lonely person.
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:03 AM
First line:
* people over at soompi made a bunch of meme on queen/ yo ship. All in good fun
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Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 1:25 AM
'He laughs at his brothers antics, still hangs around them all the time despite them openly dissing him, changes places with the crown prince to fulfill a live debt and for a chance to live with family again...'
This! I was thinking the same, that he's not a loner by choice. Sure he sits all brooding and alone on a rock that one time, but it's largely because he keeps getting turned away by his family! I always feel like he wants to belong (almost desperately) to the band of brothers but they've got this image for him and he doesn't know how to work around it.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 5:07 AM
Yes! After all he didn't kill the men who had captured Jung, though- judging by his stint with the monks- he could have. He just allowed them to run away in fear of his name. I think that's pretty much indication that he's not a conscience-less, brutal killer by nature. But he does have a brutal side.
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Tara
September 7, 2016 at 3:03 PM
I saw it too. That hand touching moment at the bath was way too long. Eerily similar to the one between Wook and Su. And then when he jumped to take the blame for her in front of King Taejo about the temple. He's not mama's boy the way Jung is...but he's a mama's boy. Totally whipped.
In a way he and So are similar. They have this need to please their mother. Only he receives her love in return.
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LNL57
September 8, 2016 at 5:09 AM
So can be violent but he's not evil/bad in nature. He just needs to be in a non-threatening environment to soften him up. The 3rd prince, Yo, is the real scary one imo. And as for the Oedipus vibe you mentioned, it did cross my mind during that scene but I don't think there's much to it. He's just very coddled and goes to mommy for everything. I think So at one point was essentially calling Jung a mama's boy which I think applies to Yo as well.
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54 Eyes
September 6, 2016 at 8:27 PM
As much as I like all the male actors in this drama, all I care about right now are scenes with So. I have zero interest in the Su/Wook love line. Maybe I'd have more investment in this pairing if I weren't sure who the male lead was.
I like Wook and find his struggle compelling, on paper, but in action...he kind of bores me. So....is more fun to watch, though it's probably the hints of layers to his character that I've seen. Or maybe it's just the mask.
More So please!
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Hu
September 6, 2016 at 9:01 PM
Same here. This episode is good but episode 4 is better because it is so full Wang So.
Lee Jun Ki is out-of-this-world hot. I couldn't even find a proper word to describe him. That gorgeousness even with half face covered which makes him ever hotter, the sexy voice, the aura....perfection. How could God ever created someone this perfect is really beyond me???
My same rants goes that while this episode is getting me all excited, I still demand more Lee Jun Ki. I need some Lee Jun Ki's fix for me to get through the week until next Monday. He is a drug, is he not?
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Persian Rose
September 6, 2016 at 9:16 PM
He is indeed a perfection, like he was born to be a prince...
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Ahri
September 6, 2016 at 9:59 PM
When he manages to crack a smile all I could think of was HAIL THE GREAT BEAUTY LEE JUN KI . Such a delicate but dangerous look to him!
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:08 PM
I almost choked when he told Yo and Yeonhwa that he'd have to find a woman who didn't mind looking at his "ugly face".
I mean he may have only half his face visible but that face still belongs to LEE JUN KI.
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM
I'm thinking that the last 8-10 episodes will be the fight for the throne.
And now that wook's wife has died, rather than opening their love , it sort of puts ends to this storyline. I don't see HS jumping into bed with wook anytime soon. Also now her position in his household has become shaky
So from next week onwards we will probably move on to the main So/Su love line. Which means more and more of LJK!!!
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Hu
September 7, 2016 at 1:46 AM
Oh, how I hope so. I have been waiting for 2 weeks for more Lee Jun Ki and satisfaction only derived from episode 4.
How LJK still looking amazing with blood splattered on his face is something that this brain could not comprehend.
On another note, I can't blame Yeonhwa for having a hot for her half-brother especially that half-brother with a half-masked face is Lee Jun Ki. If I were Yeonhwa, I would be rolling on the floor in front of the King and begging him to marry myself off to him.
Now, I am sounding all shallow but can't help. Saw-ry.
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Iluljk
September 7, 2016 at 1:44 AM
He is a drug..LJK is a really a drug..
I always wonder what is his charm is..i usually does not do fangirling actors..but LJK is always an exception from the first time i watch him in mygirl
He is like other-worldly being..more like a manga character that perfectly comes alive..
His superb acting does not help my addiction to him either
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Hu
September 7, 2016 at 1:47 AM
Exactly. A drug. A caffeine? Hahaha. When comes to Lee Jun Ki, none could actually stop talking about his gorgeousness.
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55 hasy
September 6, 2016 at 8:39 PM
OMGOSH, favorite episode ever. It brings me back to all those times I wanted 8th Prince and Ruoxi to be together. I really want Ha Neul and IU to be together too (since I never liked the original 4th prince anyhow), but I know I will be left of rewatching these early episodes.
While I do know the differences and symbolism of what that snow scene meant, I still am NOT comparing because it is a different drama. I understand that the original snow scene was a reminder of her prison in the past and how she became aware of 8th's feelings for her. But I think this snow scene was very creative. It even honored the original scene when he caught her fall with his hand.
Sighs, it feels so much worse shipping IU and Wook since Lady Hae is such a saint. At least, in the original, Ruolan didn't even care for him. I just know that the Queen won't honor her last wish though because her mind is set for her son to be on the throne and marrying Soo will not aid her mission. Damn, I wish for everything bad to happen to Yeonhwa, the fact that she gets to marry So is another gripe.
:( I wish there were more scenes of Wook and IU.
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chocopieb
September 6, 2016 at 11:10 PM
Everyone is saying lady hae's death means less obstacle for wook and su to be together.. But i think her death will make it harder for them since they'll be even more aware and guilty.. i guess ><
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Lynn
September 7, 2016 at 7:07 AM
I don't know about guilt, but I think Prince Wook may have a hard time because I think he'll realize just how much he really loved his wife, I feel he loved her in his own way.
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Lin_K
September 10, 2016 at 11:18 PM
I too believe Wook loved Lady Hae. The ending scenes of this episode, especially of her passing and him crying, told me that.
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56 candiceraine
September 6, 2016 at 8:39 PM
What in the world is in Lee Jun Ki's voice that puts me in a trance? Seriously, he can hypnotize anyone in seconds by just talking. And then total game over once you look at him.
And there's something in the way Kang Ha Neul smiles when he's amused with Hae Soo that's just so appealing. Can't quite point my finger at it.. could be the little quirk on the corner of his lips... or the dance and spark in his amused eyes.. It's just so...cute!
Ah Lady Hae. What a great character. The knowledge and acceptance that she has on her fate and how she spent her last days is admirable. Yes, it is creepy to set up your young cousin with your husband but this is a woman dying. A dying woman who is so in love with her husband she wanted to entrust him to somebody who can make him happy. And that somebody happens to be someone she loves too. So in her mind, her death could mean so much more if it meant happiness for the people she loves.
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FreeCats
September 6, 2016 at 8:44 PM
I think Lady Hae also knows that not many people will be as patient with Hae Soo's strangeness in that world. She knows Wook is a good man who will protect Soo and Soo can take care of him.
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Jude
September 6, 2016 at 8:58 PM
In some culture it's still a common practice for a man to marry inside the family after his wife died (often the family elders will suggest the wife's younger sister/cousin to be the next wife in line). Well, at least that's what happen sometimes in my culture. Not to mention this story takes place hundreds years ago - if we're going for realism here, Su will already be married to Wook even before Lady Hae meets her end.
I guess this is why, modern sensibility aside, I'm not even slightly creeped out by Lady Hae decision to pair Su with Wook. Her acceptance is just beautiful.
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wackycashew
September 6, 2016 at 9:29 PM
Agree with ya 100%! That's why I'm in a So trance every week. ^^ LJG ❤️
Yes, that amused smile is the best!!
Lady Hae was truly like a mom and big sis to Su. So lucky for Su to have her in this era when she knows nobody.
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Napkiin
September 6, 2016 at 10:03 PM
Lady Hae was the sweetest character ever in this show. I'm so sad to see her to go this early :( She would've been so supportive of Haesoo in whatever she does.
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM
RIP, Lady Hae.
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fanwho
September 7, 2016 at 4:14 AM
The actress (Park Si-eun) did very good. Didn't realize she is wife of the actor JTH playing Cheobol son in Monster in real life.
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wackycashew
September 7, 2016 at 4:47 AM
Yes, she's such a sacrificial person for people that she loves. She only wants the best for them and for them to be happy. Will be sad to see her go since we have so many evil, scheming women around. One less on team Su. =(
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:35 PM
Agreed.
Hey at least she'll have 4th prince and 13th on team Su for sure haha
57 Rachelle
September 6, 2016 at 9:03 PM
I'm finding the continuity of this show really jarring. They have the soap making scene in a spring setting with leaves on the trees, then there is snow on the ground, then they have a conversation by a pond with water lilies and more leaves on the trees, then they have a lot of snow on the ground and it looks like the dead of winter. It make this whole episode feel extremely choppy.
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58 Aegj
September 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM
I love Yeon Hwa for some reason. Really hoping they don't turn her into a one sided villian and that So isn't crap to her after their marriage. I mean, that would be pretty awful since he knows all about unreturned affections
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junebuggley
September 7, 2016 at 1:10 PM
I love her too. Although shallowly I will admit that a large chunk of that love for her is due to her dimples and how they flash when she's being bitchy, wicked, or sassy (or all three!).
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Tara
September 7, 2016 at 3:09 PM
I like her too. There are definitely layers there and I feel she won't be a one note villain. I hope so anyway.
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59 wackycashew
September 6, 2016 at 9:26 PM
Thanks for the recap, Heads!
This is the best ep so far!!
Most hilarious moment goes to Jung and Eun examining the emoji closely. I screencapped those precious moments that totally made me LOL!! And how awesome it was that So managed to decipher the meaning and even got Eun to reenact it!! Hahahahaha!! Still chucking and must have watched that scene countless times. XD I feel that So just "gets" Su more than Wook. I was also anticipating Jung to call Su "nooneui" again, but I guess that didn't happen during this scene. =P
I like that So-Su bumped into each other in the palace and got to chat a bit. They're getting more comfy with each other, which is good at paving their eventual love story. We know she already has So's attention, so it's a matter of time when feelings will develop mutually. It seems that Su is the one always catching So in his vulnerable, embarrassing, or beastly moments. I think that will help them connect more.
Most heartfelt moment was make-up scene with Su and Lady Hae. My heart broke for these two cousins. Lady Hae's exit was very touching and the ending was done just right for this ep with the background song and all.
BA being so furious at Su was a little surprising, but I guess he still holds a torch for Lady Hae. I'm waiting for him and Su to overcome these differences and become BFFs. Also for BA to fall in love again later with Seohyun's character.
I like the fish-out-of-water moments and perhaps that's why So-Su are more similar than one may think. I feel like Wook's perception of Su isn't really accurate and he actually doesn't even really know her. Anyway, from that encounter with the king, looks like Su got on his good side, which doesn't escape the queen's notice. I wonder how she would use that to her advantage later on. Not sure if she would go as far as marry her off with one of her sons.
I can't say too much about my views on CR since it's considered a spoiler. But I did find her response to Su about not knowing the Hanja characters a little awkward.
How I love that JM IS the ajusshi from ep. 1 that GHJ met on the docks. I hope they become allies and that he'd help Su out when she's in a pinch.
I'm gonna have to overlook to while incest marriage thing since I suppose it must not be a thing back then in Goryeo.
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Napkiin
September 6, 2016 at 9:58 PM
"But I did find her response to Su about not knowing the Hanja characters a little awkward."
Omg you thought so too?? I definitely thought that was really fishy the way she said it! I think she knows how to read Hanja (Chinese characters). Probably to do with her "big secret", maybe.
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 10:46 PM
I never thought of that you guys but you could well be right!
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wackycashew
September 7, 2016 at 4:52 AM
Yeah, cuz her reaction is a bit flustered. Like someone caught you in the act and you're over-reacting to deny it. "No, no, of course not!" kinda feeling.
I also suspect due to my knowledge of the C-drama original. But I realized belatedly from the last ep that we're not supposed to discuss too much about that to keep things spoiler-free. So, I gotta be more careful from now on. ^^
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:36 PM
I agree totally.
I suspect CR will play her counterpart from the C-drama version.
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60 bebeswtz
September 6, 2016 at 9:34 PM
Thank you for such a fast recap, Heads, and I hope all it well with you after the one-episode haitus =)
All in all, quite a solid episode!
I agree with earlier comments in regards to where the feelings between Hae Su and Wook stand and where they stem from. Wook definitely loved Lady Hae, but most likely only as family. He knew that she was in love with him and he probably tried to love her back in the same way, but loving her like family was the most that he could do. In contrast, he's IN LOVE with Hae Su, and this feeling is something so new and raw to himself, even, so he didn't and continues to not notice the things he does to and for Hae Su, even if it is the slightest expression, which Baek Ah notices and undoubtedly knows the meaning behind because he, himself, is in love with Lady Hae, someone he shouldn't be. As for Hae Su, it is a bit odd that she's letting her own emotions go so far, what with being a 21st century girl wherein monogamy is the "right" thing of marriage, but I guess the heart wants what it wants! I actually admire Lady Hae in all of this: To the man that she loves, even if he doesn't love her the same way, Lady Hae is still so magnanimous enough, and so at peace, to find someone for Wook for after she passes, and to also make sure that the person to look after Wook after she's gone is also someone that Wook cares for/loves, aigoo ~~ Yay for more fish-out-of-water moments for Su, which I feel were the highlights of this episode: Her trying to figure out the poem, So figuring out the emoji (THAT SMIRK HE GAVE!! OMG I DIE!!!!), Su and So are of the same frequency/wave-length LOL I'm actually so glad now that the initial awkward/confusion of So's return is gone, that most of the Princes (besides Yo, Jung, and maybe Wook) are actually welcoming and talking to So =) Another thing I'm glad for is that we got an episode for some of our other second/minor leads/characters, as I was wondering how the script was going to fit everyone in in time with just 20 episodes, because the C-drama version had 35 episodes (each being 45-minutes) and managed to fit everyone/thing in seamlessly.
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61 Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 9:38 PM
The previews for next week were unclear. It seemed like Su was going to be forced into a marriage with that general looking guy (I think that's the actor that played the middle-aged psychiatrist in It's Okay, That's Love) and So was going to save her. Is that what you guys took away from it?
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Saph
September 6, 2016 at 10:09 PM
I'm confused too. But wasn't it Wook carrying Su on horseback (i.e. rescuing her) at the end of the trailer?
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 11:09 PM
Really? I thought it was So. Will have to look again.
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:37 PM
Yup there's 2 versions of the trailer it was actually So bringing Haesoo. Yay, how exciting, the So x Hae Soo hip will sail next week \o/
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fseventh
September 6, 2016 at 11:14 PM
Well there are two trailers. It seems like both Wook and So work together to save Su. As in Wook brings decoy as place of Su. People will run after Wook because they will think Su is with him. But actually it was So who brings Su.
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Saph
September 6, 2016 at 11:31 PM
I think you're right! This week I'm so hopeless at interpreting trailers LOL
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Hanna Banana
September 7, 2016 at 12:57 AM
I'm excited for next week! Come on #HaeSuProtectionSquad !
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chocopieb
September 6, 2016 at 11:14 PM
Sung dong il?? I dont think so >< he's a high ranked general, and has a daughter su's age. A potential candidate.. would probably be somebody from another clan, for political reasons most probably :p
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62 dls
September 6, 2016 at 10:07 PM
\^0^/ \^0^/ \^0^/
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bebeswtz
September 6, 2016 at 10:22 PM
+100000000000000000000
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\^0^/
September 6, 2016 at 10:25 PM
\^0^/
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^^
September 6, 2016 at 10:27 PM
\^0^/
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0.0
September 6, 2016 at 10:27 PM
\^0^/ \^0^/ \^0^/
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63 nomad
September 6, 2016 at 10:13 PM
Just wanna say...HI HEADS!! This reminds me of the many months you recapped 6FD...ah...miss it...
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64 ellyvira
September 6, 2016 at 10:16 PM
I know a lot of commenters are uncomfortable with the polygamy/ incest in the drama, but please try to understand that in ancient China/ Korea they had very different practices towards marriage compared to modern times - it was acceptable for one many to marry sisters (at the same time, or when a wife dies) or cousins from the same clan. Another thing to keep in mind is that it was of utmost importance that a family had a male heir to carry on the lineage - hence if a wife had no children it was a shameful thing and could be grounds for taking more wives, or even divorce (which would ruin the woman). Again, we're talking about a thousand years ago, unfair and sexist as it was.
In this context, aside from Wook's feelings for Su, it should be pointed out that the relationship between Wook and Lady Hae is quite unusual for the times. The drama doesn't mention that Wook has another wife, so assuming that Lady Hae is his only wife, it woud have been a rare occurence taking into account that she had no children. Wook would have been well within his 'rights' to take another wife who could bear him a son to continue his family line, but it's clear that while there may not have been mutual romantic feelings, Wook definitely respected and cared for her in his own way (including not taking more wives). The guilt that Wook has in liking Su shows that he is more than aware of his wife's feelings and trying to respect them (whereas in other families the wife may have just been expected to suck it up and welcome the new woman).
From Lady Hae's perspective it seems like a ridiculous thing to wish for her cousin and her husband to be together - but as she said in her final moments, she accepted that she loved Wook more. Remember again that in those times it was the role of the wife to be the husband's supporter and bearer of children. She knows very well that her time is near an end and knowing that Su and Wook like each other, is subtly giving her blessing to them both. Yes, these is unusual from a modern perspective, but wouldn't have been out of the norm for Wook to marry Su after Hae's death.
I do wonder if it is the drama's doing that confuses viewers about the polygamy/incest thing (or maybe just from different cultures) as there is little mention of multiple wives/ arranged marriages between family which would give some background and allow this to be part of the underlying narrative and give some perspective on the cultural norms of the time period. Perhaps it's taking into account the tastes of the modern viewer, but really, it's the arranged marriages and intertwined relationships between all the princes and wives that made a lot of the plot in the original BBJX flow. Looking forward to how this is adapted here!
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bebeswtz
September 6, 2016 at 10:29 PM
+1 Thank you for the spot on explanation!! I do think it might be the drama's writing/editing that might be the doing of all the confusion, because the issue didn't seem as big of an elephant in the room in the Chinese version of "Scarlet Heart", but I am okay and understand everything thus far, coming from a Chinese background, even though I do sometimes have to remind myself to open up a bit and throw some of my 21st century North American thinking out the window for this Show =)
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Indigo
September 8, 2016 at 4:11 AM
Yes, thanks for your explanation. I was thinking Wook's angst was odd given that polygamy was the norm. But, you're right, his burden was not the guilt of cheating, but rather it was knowing of his wife's unrequited love and him not wanting to hurt her. This considerate side of him just makes me like the character even more.
Now I also understand why Lady Hae, after confirming that Soo loved Wook, said that they were both foolish. She was acknowledging that they were both holding back solely for her sake (since their customs didn't require it).
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65 pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:16 PM
oh, and can we also talk about how Astronomer Dude is TOTALLY THE HOMELESS GUY WHO BROUGHT SU HERE?! What is going on with that?!! My head is still spinning tbqh, what did he bring her to Goryeo for?!
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Nayour
September 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM
I don't think he brought her here but he travelled here through the same means and probably ended up in the timeline slightly earlier than Su.
Hopefully it'll provide some explanation as to how the time travelling eclipse thingy works but I'm guessing it's more to help integrate her into their up coming "game of thrones. (don't wanna spoil anything but if they go that route it will play closer to the original story since the heroine plays a very vital role in the conflicts between the brothers)
Although I might be wrong.
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:50 PM
I haven't seen the cdrama at all so I actually have no idea where they might go with this. But yeah, it's one of the big mysteries and we've had virtually no light shed on it yet.
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 2:14 AM
in the original cdrama rouxi is the only timetraveller, nobody else. (it's an other cdrama with a really similar plot to scarlet heart, which also included more time traveller characters : the palace)
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 1:12 AM
That said, I don't remember anything as entertaining in Faith as Su rattling off middle school history to save herself from the king's wrath.
And she got a Persian rug out of the deal, too. Sweet.
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:14 AM
Ooooh Pogo, Faith had a lot of hilarious fish-out-the-water scenes. There was a scene where she was reciting a historical song in FRONT of the whole court.
There was a scene she used her knowledge of history to challenge the villain and it was hilarious watching all their reactions.
There was a scene she met the king and requested for some pottery to take back because she knew they'd be expensive and valuable in the future.
And so many more I keep forgetting!
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Iluljk
September 7, 2016 at 1:59 AM
My theory-Ji Mong is also a time-traveller himself..idk if anyone notice in ep 1-in the scene where all the princes except So was playing cheerfully in Ji Mong's tower..while the scene show all the princes laughing together, Ji Mong looks at the scene with some sort of sad face..i think it shows that Ji Mong knew that in the future they will be enemies and go to war with each other..
just my 2-cents though
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Saph
September 7, 2016 at 2:47 AM
Nice observation! And imagine the can of worms that'll be opened if Ji-mong tells Hae-su which prince is King Gwangjong.... though this may or may not happen
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endo
September 7, 2016 at 11:28 AM
Yes. For me, Ji Mong is definitely a time traveller. His star analogies for the Princes are i think,based on History.
Also the plane and his Aviator outift (i think) in Astronomy Tower is some sort giveaway because i think the concept of planes (at least that design) was developed around 1500s. And Goryeo was in 900s.
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PakalanaPikake
September 6, 2016 at 10:44 PM
The astronomer's first choice was bringing back a plastic surgeon, but Choi Young beat him to the punch... so he switched to Plan B and shanghaied a cosmetologist instead.
I can't wait to see that the astronomer still has that half-empty bottle of soju in his rucksack. And #4 So will find it now that he's moved into the observatory...
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:48 PM
NOOOO WHY DID YOU PUT THIS IN MY HEAD WHEN WE HAVE SIX DAYS TO GO BEFORE THE NEXT EPISODE /curses
I'm legit cackling @the idea of this being a failed kidnapping of the lady from Faith, tho.
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PakalanaPikake
September 7, 2016 at 12:36 PM
@pogo,
Um, because I have a warped sense of humor and couldn't contain myself? ;-)
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 10:49 PM
Lol!
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:15 AM
LOL!! I love the use of Shanghai as a verb.
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PakalanaPikake
September 7, 2016 at 12:25 PM
*bows*
Glad to dust off antique maritime terminology for a good cause. ;-)
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hasy
September 7, 2016 at 10:44 AM
Love that reference because I genuinely enjoyed Faith, despite its flaws.
Honestly though, remembering that drama, it really hits home
to the fact that most kdramas that deal with time travel do NOT fare well at all. Unless Rooftop Prince, though I never watched it so I have no idea how the ratings did.
I just hope that the cast gains international exposure from this but clearly, the domestic viewers ain't giving them love.
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PakalanaPikake
September 7, 2016 at 12:57 PM
I enjoyed FAITH, too, after I finally managed to let go of my need for logic... The OST was cracktastic.
As for MOON LOVERS, maybe we'll have to come up with a few HG Wells references, too... because he was contemporaneous with the astronomer's Victorian/steampunk goggles.
That glider hanging in the observatory looks like one of Leonardo da Vinci's designs. I don't know if it would have fit inside Wells's time machine -- but it surely would have fit in the TARDIS. Hehehe.
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Tara
September 7, 2016 at 3:19 PM
Queen In Hyun's Man was very popular.
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PakalanaPikake
September 7, 2016 at 8:59 PM
A nice talisman ought to do the trick, as long as the cinnabar doesn't run when it gets dunked in the portal pond. Bonus: It transports the bearer as well as their horse for a fast getaway. Just the ticket during fraternal infighting.
realraul23
September 7, 2016 at 6:06 PM
HAHAHAAH!!! Your comment made my morning!! I read this and the bus and snorted out loud and started laughing!!!
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:18 AM
So much happening that everyone forgot about the astronomer.
From his expressions, i think he remembers the future. (Does this line even make sense) .... So i am eager to see where this goes. Fantasy elements done right are a bomb! ..
And now you people have put in my head the idea that WS might know her secret??? urghhh .... i can't get it out of head now. The puppy doesn't deserve to be left alone if/when HS vanishes ... Maybe we can import a portal from W to travel .
WS in 21st century where thousands of girls yell 'oppa' on seeing his perfect face ? He might have an aneurism
And i just realised that i am rambling and the comment is not making any sense wrt the plot.
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:18 AM
'Remembers the future' lol.
Its like instead of saying 'remember the past' is to remember the future. Lol!! Only time travel will make say weird sentences and phrases.
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PakalanaPikake
September 7, 2016 at 1:15 PM
Re: Remembers the future
Yes, this does make sense... Just crank your speakers up to 11 and enjoy. A landmark concept album... ;-)
Nektar - 1973 Remember the Future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bf0x9fOULs
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66 Bauble
September 6, 2016 at 10:25 PM
I wasn't really sold on the Su/Wook romance until this episode. I kept wanting Su to acknowledge her 21st century roots especially given her own cheating boyfriend - best friend experience and be not okay with stealing glances with Wook.
But I like the fact that confrontation with Baek Ah and later conversation with Wook forces her to acknowledge that she always knew she was wrong and she was ignoring that because of Feelings! I like that she takes responsibility for her feelings and yeah that makes her a flawed heroine to root for, but I'd prefer that to a cookie cutter candy.
But it would suck to be Lady Hae! Man, imagine you're so in love, but you know your husband while being really 'nice' to you, isn't in love with you. And then, you get to watch him fall in love with this young lovely thing whose come to take care of you while you are dying. And you don't even hate them because...gah!
It's messy but I guess that's the idea of a forbidden love.
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Bauble
September 6, 2016 at 10:43 PM
Also, I am really surprised by but also really like the Su/So dynamics. I thought it was just always going to be him being all broody and her being the cute thing that gets through to him. But they talk weirdly like equals catching up on each other's lives. And I sort of love that she leaves and doesn't hang around for the aftermath of the Evil Mother. I was so sure that she'd give him the whole doe eyed 'you poor thing, I will feel for you, as your mom sucks' scene or at least a flippant 'your mom sucks' scene, but this was way better.
And okay, how much do l love the fact that Baek Ah confronts her point blank, knowing how she must feel based on what he feels! He is going to tell her what she needs to hear. I think it's the start of a beautiful friendship! :)
Thanks Heads for the recap. Sorry for the word vomit, this show has way too many princes and weirdly executed but engaging Feelings!
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:56 PM
I really enjoy both Su/Wook and Su/So's dynamics - with Wook it's just outright burning forbidden desire, but with So she has this comfort level that's going to make for something really great when the romance comes along and upsets that applecart.
There's an ease and trust being established between them that is rare among kdrama leads (yes, even among crossdressing dramas that typically attempt to use that device as a way to create that kind of relationship), and I love that she actually beat it out of there so as to let him not feel worse by knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that she'd witnessed his humiliation.
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 11:00 PM
re: the other princes, I think I could grow to really like seeing her with the younger ones - I enjoy her mild irritation at Eun, her 'aww this baby, all growing up' vibe with Jung, and now we get Baek-ah finally speaking to her directly to tell her some harsh truths.
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Bauble
September 6, 2016 at 11:27 PM
Oh, I am with you on everything! I like that the show is setting up her 'unique' relationships with each of the princes. I mean, I would have found it weird if they'd just thrown her in with the princes and they all generically just like her (or hate her in case of Yo but that's just his character). While here you see she has a growing dynamic with each of them and it's more natural and fun!
Yeah, I really love that she leaves as well. And I think it maybe because it was Lee Jun Ki and IU playing these characters that I thought it would be an unequal relationship but the comfort level they have is a really nice surprise. Yeah crossdressing though selling the 'we're just two guys hanging out' usually has a power difference, don't they? Like boss and employee or our resident favourite King and Eunuch. While here despite the whole gender/social hierarchy, they loosen up around each other.
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IvoryLight
September 6, 2016 at 11:58 PM
"While here despite the whole gender/social hierarchy, they loosen up around each other."
This!! I mean, So and Su could not have possible started off on a worse foot could they? Between her always mouthing off to him, and then his greatest shame, the scar, being exposed to her while she was doing illegal things (lol I hope he keeps teasing her about her supposed predilection for bathing pools), the death threats, her seeing him in a crazy rage and now seeing how his mother treats him...they've really set the stage for them to be friends. I want them to go the other way now, and for So to see Hae Su at her more vulnerable moments, emotionally, and not just having to rescue her again, althought lbr, it's a kdrama it'll probably happen at least 6 more times.
I do love how they are portrayed as equals here, at least in their personal interactions with each other, and how concerned Hae Soo is about Wang So, reminding him to eat, sleep, live quietly and live well hehe..
blah
September 7, 2016 at 12:20 AM
your comments are everything <3
(omg I love reading comment section for this drama it's truly amazing and lightens me on many subjects I could not exactly put my fingers on)
btw I remember watching the special ep where IU explained SoxSu and WookxSu relationships. She said WookxSu is kind of a "popular/common" lovestory, a woman and a man growing affection towards each other (maybe that explains the sexual tension between them). But SoxSu relationship developed from humanity, from the sympathy between two human beings with their own hurt and scars, and then when it turns into love it's just like... fire.
Since that moment I have come to really like IU. She understands her character well and is confident about it, I really like that, just as how I love Su portrayed by her. I was really skeptical about her before but now I'm turning into a fan, the hate is ridiculous.
bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:22 AM
@bauble
I thought it was just always going to be him being all broody and her being the cute thing that gets through to him. But they talk weirdly like equals catching up on each other’s lives
THIS.
Even i thought it was her being just ott cute and bubbly and he will be all like frosty and incommunicable ..... but this is so much better. They are becoming like each other's confidants and seem to casually talk on an equal footing.
More of this please.
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Lynn
September 7, 2016 at 7:34 AM
I think So's change of attitude regarding Su is because he realized that she's seen the worst parts of him and yet she isn't disgusted by them.
She saw his 'shameful scarred face' and heard his painful admission of killing people, she witnessed his deep rage, and his tears yet she didn’t shy away from him. Wouldn't that move anyone to be softer/less cold? . I think they have a very interesting relationship.
So isn't a brute by choice, I think is totally the opposite he's a very sentive/quiet person. I remember that in episode 3 he gazed at a painting and immediately formed an image of his brother killing the monks.
That shows that for better or for worse he has a deep sense of perception, and maybe that's why he could decipher the emoji so easily \^o^/.
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Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 9:58 AM
Haha, I really love you connecting the emoji with that painting in the 3rd episode! I am going to believe that it was a conscious connection and that are Sageuk hero could possibly be a visual learner!
(And now because I will regret not doing this at least once when I am talking about this episode) \^o^/
67 mariazzang
September 6, 2016 at 10:33 PM
It's only episode 5 but is it too late to ask for a happy ending for both 4th and 8th prince? Somebody should clone Hae Soo...
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Hanna Banana
September 6, 2016 at 10:44 PM
Lol like a situation where the prince that doesn't end up with her in this universe travels to an alternate future where Ha Jin's soul doesn't get sucked back in time and falls in love with her again and live happily ever after, with plumbing, electricity and wifi? ?
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Liliesrevil
September 6, 2016 at 10:47 PM
Also possibly escaping impending death, since according to history GwangJong kills all his brothers.
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Barbrey
September 6, 2016 at 10:52 PM
Does he really? That's not in the Wikipedia article. I've been trying to find out more about him online in English but coming up short. Where did you read this?
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chocopieb
September 6, 2016 at 11:17 PM
Thats what su said in next week's preview ><
Saph
September 7, 2016 at 2:50 AM
:OOOO gosh that's quite brutal
......we're not getting a happy ending, are we
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fanwho
September 7, 2016 at 4:40 AM
I don't see the record he killed all his brothers, but
he killed tones of people. It says during Taejo(So's father, 1st king)'s reign, there were 3200 officials with merits from unification, but by the end of Gwangjong(So), there were only 40 some left. He killed his brothers(Taejo's 1st and 3rd son/2nd and 3rd king)'s sons and Taejo's 15th son(We didn't see him in the drama).
He/So also became very suspicous of his oldest son CP Joo while he was king, but Joo survivied to become next king because his younger borther died early and king didn't have any other son to consider.
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68 kalila
September 6, 2016 at 10:33 PM
Is it normal to be so emotionally invested in a DRAMA so much that it brings u to tears even if, in reality u have never even cried at a single funeral in ur life?!(And I usually go to a minimum of 2 funerals every year!)
One more thing... is it at all possible to have an alternate short version of the story where wook gets the girl!!!???? At this point I'm invested in BOTH pairings(wook+soo and so+soo) so much that I'm pretty sure no matter which love story Is the main storyline, I would still be left with some regret and happiness for the lack of progress regarding the OTHER storyline
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pogo
September 6, 2016 at 10:47 PM
At this point, I'm all in favour of Plan Clone Hae Su, too.
I can't help it, when she's with Wook I want to swoon from the way he looks at her even when he's not aware of his own expressions, and the look in his eyes /dead
And then she goes and has a scene with So and I never want it to end because they're so natural and comfortable around each other that you know these two are going to fall hard before they even realise it. /double swoon
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:24 AM
Lol Pogo, you're here again, in another drama where equal ships are shippable left wanting to clone heroine.
Remember Sassy Go Go? Yeah, that was beautiful too.
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 10:48 AM
@Flightey Gazelles - Sassy Go Go was one of the happiest experiences of my kdrama-watching life, no lie - even though I think it took us till episode 5 to even realise that Ji-soo WAS the second lead after all!
This, though, both pairings make me want to melt through the floor but I don't think things are going to end with Wook being all cuddly bffs with So and Su.
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Saph
September 7, 2016 at 8:17 PM
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the comments yet, but remember in ep 5 when Wook told So that neither his sister (Yeon-hwa) nor his wife's cousin (Su) were So's people? Considering how both ladies are going to be romantically involved with So in one way or another, I think that scene is meant as foreshadowing for the conflict/rivalry between the two princes later.
Tara
September 8, 2016 at 8:15 AM
@Saph: That is one of my favourite scenes from this drama (even despite the weird zoom in of their faces x1000 magnification). It was so....loaded. Kang Ha Neul delivered those lines so well I literally had chills.
69 anotherfan
September 6, 2016 at 10:52 PM
My initial viewing of the episode was great. I thought this episode is the best so far even though it wasn't as full of So. I think the editing is somewhat better in this episode. I have read all the gripes and actually think they are very valid and certainly contribute to negativity following this drama - rightly so. I am trying to ignoring the weaknesses and focus on the strengths. There are some great scenes in this ep. The emoji scene was cute as was the visit to the king. I thought that we should have probably seen the king scene sooner.
I liked the meaningful scenes btw 8th prince and Soo. I understand everyone's modern view and I also believe it too no doubt. But back then, it's just not unusual in the slightest for men to have multiple wives - especially princes. Korean version is nice to audience in that not many of the princes are actually married - only 8th? Maybe CP? I am not rooting for 8th and Soo cause I too know history just like Soo does. So 4th it is.
I quite like KHN here in his more muted role of the 8th prince at least for now. Haven't ever really cared for his characters until now. LJK - I think finally after 5 episodes, I am starting to warm up to So just a little bit. The mask does really throw me off a bit. So is such a lonely soul - one can see it in his eyes except sometimes it's difficult to see it really only in one eye. Anyhow - I think j just dig Soo's relationship with all the princes more than focusing on one - at least for now.
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70 silentbeluga
September 6, 2016 at 11:01 PM
You know, though I completely understand why the Su-Wook romance makes people uncomfortable, I have to say that it never bothered me.
I never really saw the fact that he was married as much of a problem because, at least in the way I see it, this was a time where love wasn’t a factor when it came to marriage. Alliances were made for political and economical reasons; not for romantic ones, or in extremely rare cases. So it would make sense that Wook and Lady Hae never actually loved each other. They probably developed a lot of affection over time, and on her side, he may even had turned into love, but if he never harbored these feelings for her, the whole marriage probably felt empty to him, quite possibly lonely. I can’t fault him for wavering when love, attraction and butterflies showed up at the same time as « amnesic Su ». The heart wants what it wants and love is quite a powerful emotion. To their credit, they didn’t do anything damning. He IS fighting his attraction for her, he’s clearly loosing the fight, and maybe he’s not that desperate to win it but I believe he’s trying. He wouldn’t look that tortured if he wasn’t. So on his side, I get it. I find it heartbreaking actually that the first time he gets to experience the most magical of feelings, it’s for someone that he won’t end up with (‘cause rules of dramaland).
On her side, it’s a little more problematic. But I can’t blame her either because he’s Kang Ha Neul. I actually find her quite tough. In her place, I would have turned into a puddle of goo by episode 2.
Also, can we give Kang Ha Neul is own drama? Pleaaaase?
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silentbeluga
September 6, 2016 at 11:01 PM
*his* own drama. Oops. Fingers.
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 1:25 AM
He is getting a drama of his own. The seemingly disastrous "picnic"
*shudder*
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silentbeluga
September 7, 2016 at 2:32 AM
I thought he had passed on that? Or at least hasn't given a definitive answer yet?
Oh please, if he's going to headline, let it be good....
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pigsnout
September 7, 2016 at 3:55 AM
A drama full of idols with Hyeri as leading lady..... why you do this to us, dramas?
pogo
September 6, 2016 at 11:07 PM
Also, can we give Kang Ha Neul his own drama? Pleaaaase?
*amends that*
Can we give Kang Ha-neul his own drama with IU, please?
This is my second time wishing for a kdrama female lead/second-lead matchup after Ji-soo and Jung Eun-ji in Sassy Go Go.
Sometimes you just need that when the main leads are so amazing together that you don't actually want to split them up, but you still have a burning need to see how a romance between the second lead/female lead would play out.
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silentbeluga
September 7, 2016 at 1:05 AM
I would take anything. Even a new take on Narcissus where pretty, pretty Ha Neul would fall in love with his own pretty, pretty reflection.
I think I would even enjoy that quite a lot actually :p
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71 pigsnout
September 6, 2016 at 11:41 PM
Poor Lady Hae, I feel so bad for her
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72 Sam
September 7, 2016 at 12:17 AM
With less Wang So made the for the next episode more painful.
LJoon Gi is adorable.
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73 Hanna Banana
September 7, 2016 at 12:25 AM
This might be a really random observation, but does your marital status correlates with your hair in Goryeo dynasty? I thought about this because I realised in Lady Hae's flashback both her and Wook had their hairs down but in the present, they're married, and they both have their hairs up. If you check this logic against most of the characters in the series, you'll realise there's a correlation. I.e. Wook mentioned Yo is married and he has his hair up. Yeon Hwa is clearly not married, and she wears her hair down. This is the same for all the younger princes (10th, 13th, 14th) as well, who we all know are not married yet.
I mean this is just like a random observation, cause it might just be character designs but I can't help notice there seems to be a correlation. Anyone has any insight on this?
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 12:33 AM
You're spot-on - hair is definitely linked to marital status here. I'm used to Joseon-era sageuks, where the men's hairstyles don't change after marriage but women's do, so I didn't initially realise that Wook, So and the other princes' hair was a clear indicator of whether they were married or not - good catch!
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Hanna Banana
September 7, 2016 at 12:50 AM
Thanks (: yeah with the exception of Faith (which isn't very helpful since almost everyone had flowy hair) the other Saeguks I've watched are all set in Joseon. I know there's a correlation with women's hair and their marital status/their rank in the palace in Joseon so I wondered if this applied in Goryeo as well, to men and women equally. So from this we can basically deduce that the married princes are 3rd Yo, 8th Wook and 9th Won.
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Viki
September 7, 2016 at 2:04 AM
Yes, that's correct. This tradition is actually from the Chinese. When a woman gets married, she is supposed to put her hair up (in a big bun sort of style). Since Goryeo is still pretty close in timeline to when China ruled the land where Korea is, they still heavily influence the people's culture there.
Even when Joseon took over, the tradition still remains (hair up = married) although the style is completely different.
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kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 6:01 AM
Like Viki said below this tradition does originate from China! Though I would think that hair down would equate to not-being-of-age yet more than anything else. Confucius regarded the [i]fa ji[/i] (or bun, the ones we see on Wook and Yo) as the only civilised hairstyle one could have, so every man would wear their hair in one when they were of age. The only people who didn't need to do that were boys who hadn't reached the age of fifteen (the traditional age when one would start to wear their hair up). Given that one couldn't marry unless they were of age, it would also be logical to assume that boys with their hair down were unmarried. Though I don't think that any of the princes (with the exception of Jung, and possibly Baek Ah) are younger than fifteen, so maybe they have taken liberties with this haha.
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loveblossom
September 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM
Whoa! I'm glad you mentioned this, Hanna Banana! I'm not good with history and I totally did not notice the correlation of their hairstyles with their marital status! O:
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Callie
September 7, 2016 at 5:20 PM
Ooh! That's so interesting. Good find!
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74 Melbeanie
September 7, 2016 at 12:35 AM
Thanks again for this recap, HeadsNo2!
That last scene just tore my heart out. That was just so sad and heartbreaking. This is reminiscent of Autumn in my Heart where the girl on piggyback dies (although Song Seung-hon's acting is no match to Kang Ha-neul's, imo). Lady Hae is just so selfless that I'm sad that she's gone or maybe glad that she's out of her misery because of that disease and well, I know it's twisted to think that it's now better that the two are free to fall in love. That sounds really wrong. Maybe while Wook is grieving and forgets about Su for awhile, So will just enter the picture and get the girl. But I like Wook to be happy. On second thought he has a nasty sister which is not good for Su so might as well forget about him, but can anyone forget Wook's face especially when he's looking at Su like he'd kiss her senseless anytime? Gah, his eyes just muddle ones senses seriously. I couldn't even think straight right now.
So what happens to Su now that her cousin is gone? Her guardian now is Wook, right? Talking about Wook gets me muddled again it's just ridiculous...
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75 antrefleurs
September 7, 2016 at 1:13 AM
Despite knowing the fact that Su and Wook were never meant for each other, it still made me happy that at least I was able to see their fondness for each other for one episode. Although everyone knows that, things won't probably be that way in the following episodes. Hehe!
Although, what I loved in this episode the most was probably the part where we had to say goodbye to Lady Hae. That scene seriously made me tear. We saw how Lady Hae loved Wook so much that all she wanted was for him to be happy.
Things aside, I'm definitely hoping for more moments between Su and So, as we didn't really get to see that much in this episode.
Also, thank you so much Heads for the really fast recap. I've always enjoyed reading your recaps. :)
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76 Viki
September 7, 2016 at 1:58 AM
Not. Enough. Of. Lee. Jun. Ki.
I mean, I get it, at this point of the story, it's important to focus on the relationship between the "love triangle" between Su, Wook, and Lady Hae. Lady Hae is such a selfless character! I wonder how they will add Junki back into the story since he seem like such a side character in this episode. Even Baek-Ah got more lines than So! I'm so glad they made So's character understand Su's emoji...meaning they are in-sync? I just want more Junki!
Well, til next Monday then!
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pigsnout
September 7, 2016 at 3:53 AM
Don't worry, they'll definitely bring back Lee Jun Ki. This episode was for Lady Hae, now she died they make sure to go back to the princes.
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77 anastassia
September 7, 2016 at 2:16 AM
wow!
this ep sealed my love for this drama. and to think the hatred i have for this drama and how much i criticised. as the recap said, it is not perfect but it is fun and the plot is very different.
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78 ami
September 7, 2016 at 2:31 AM
so is obviously have a soft spot for soo from the begining, he let her go and protected her from the first moment they met.
that day he save her on the street, the savage prince that he supposedly is, he can just let her fell off the street, eventho he did just toss her down the horse after that :p
like soo maid's said he's rumored to "hurt" people who saw his scar. but other then deadly threat and choking soo, he let her go just like that.
she tresspass into royal bath for the princes, saw his scars! that should cost her life, twice!
i am totally team 4o (4th prince So)
loving the drama, it deserve better ratings
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ami
September 7, 2016 at 2:39 AM
sorry my bad. thank you for the recap. that's should've been first said.
the emoji scene.... i still laugh everytime i re-watched it.
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pigsnout
September 7, 2016 at 3:57 AM
Same here, Team 4th Prince for me too. He was never the monster people say, just very wounded and hurt.
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ami
September 7, 2016 at 4:46 AM
my favorite scene so far, when so was flustered by soo, he mentioned the royal bath peeping incident just to get soo of his back about his emotional outburst the other day.
so cuteeee his expression there. LJK nailed it
i need monday to come soon, like tomorrow
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79 Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 2:32 AM
I have still not seen a Korean history aside from the wikipedia article but thought readers might be interested in a few footnotes I saw. Apparently King Taejo had a habit of marrying his kids (of different mothers) to each other. So not only did Wang So marry half-sister Yeon Hwa, but Wook's wife was not a Lady Hae but a Lady Yoo, also his half-sister, and both Jung (14th) and Eun (10th) married half-sisters too.
Aargh, this drama has got me so intrigued about the history and I can't find anything in English except bits and pieces.
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Saph
September 7, 2016 at 2:54 AM
This half-sister marrying thing is seriously just a Charles II of Spain waiting to happen lol.
thanks for the interesting tidbit! \^O^/
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 4:08 AM
So true! I'm surprised they weren't slack-jawed and drooling because it continued to happen, this half-sibling thing, for almost 200 years before any kind of law was set up to discourage it. Taejo did it that way to circumvent influence on the royal family from the new spouse's relatives (he had enough to deal with through the 29 women from powerful houses he himself married). Of Taejo's nine daughters, seven of them married half-brothers, and from those unions, a number of them married half-siblings, uncles, nieces, nephews. It was decidedly a mess.
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bbstl
September 7, 2016 at 10:22 AM
Whoa. />!<\
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM
Man... Their kids must have serious genetic defects... No wonder they die so young
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Liliesrevil
September 7, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Since we're sharing these tidbits of the incestuous royal wang family, I came across the fact that Baek Ah married Wook's daughter. Also Wook's other daughter married So's son, whom I'm assuming was a product of incest too.
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80 taro
September 7, 2016 at 2:40 AM
you know what I find strange? that we overlooks that lady hae "forced" his husband to marry her. she fell in love with him in the first sight and took advantage of their position - they were exiles and fell out of favor.
lady hae and wook marriage built on selfishness from both side.
lady hae has more layers too - she was not born as "saint"
(it's make her more human)
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lovefallacy
September 7, 2016 at 3:34 AM
I don't think it was really forced... She's a reticent character so it makes sense for her to describe it as her forcing him to marry her - ie. he had little or no choice. Also she thinks of it as force because he was marrying someone he had no feeling for at the time.
But he was a prince and I don't think there was an issue of force on her side. Even his mother acknowledged that Lady Hae actually did their family a favour by marrying 8th prince because it helped their position.
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pigsnout
September 7, 2016 at 3:51 AM
It's not forced like someone put a gun to his head, but she knows his position and knows that she will bring him this big advantage of being able to get back in the palace..... so it like putting pressure on him to marry her for those reasons.
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 4:26 AM
But he couldn't expect to marry for any other reasons, so her saying she "forced" him to marry him just sounds kind of silly to me. They didn't marry for love in those days at all. It was all dynastic or for political alliance. Also, she could have suggested to her family she'd like to marry him, but her family would have the final say. Wook got a great deal in Lady Hae, a devoted wife with whom he was compatible and who he was fond of, and all the political benefits that came with her. On the other hand, her love for him kind of messed up the rules of the political marriage, not leaving him really free to pursue a mistress or concubine he himself was in love with without feeling guilt.
It's all kind of messed up, when love in marriage actually creates more problems than if there were no love at all.
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 5:36 AM
(side note: in goryeo the women had more power/influence (economic, political, legal) than later)
in the case of their marrige wook and his family profited more - no one would find it strange if they had sought the possibility of marriage, but we know that's not what happened. lady hae wanted this marriage and she wanted it for personal reasons: she took advantage on their situation - it's no rules in love and war, and she was in love.
she wanted him, and she got him, whatever it takes. she loved him so much, she wanted to help him - but she ignored his feelings.
in this drama women are equal partners with men in games of power, like yeon hwa or queen yoo
(it's really a non-convenient period drama with well known rules and stereotypes)
Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 6:54 AM
To Taro - while I agree that women had more equal staus in Goryeo before the neo-Confuscianism took hold big time, this is not a gender thing. It's political. King Taijo married 29 wives to bind himself to 29 powerful families while founding an unruly kingdom of conflicting interests. I doubt any of the wives had a say in the matter, and it's doubtful he loved any of them. If Wook wanted to marry anyone for purposes other than political, he'd be laughed out of Songak. If he hadn't married Lady Hae, he'd probably have been forced to marry one of his own half-sisters, which in fact the historical Wook had to do. So yes, Wook was likely forced to marry her but it's not like he wouldn't have been forced to marry someone else if not her, so I reiterate her guilt seems silly to me, even though her regret she loved him while he didn't have the same love for her is tragic.
taro
September 7, 2016 at 9:17 AM
To Barbrey:
i was not talking about the aspect of the political marriage per se, it was the norm - i was talking about their marriage, and what you have written express it more better, than my own words:
" On the other hand, her love for him kind of messed up the rules of the political marriage, not leaving him really free to pursue a mistress or concubine he himself was in love with without feeling guilt.
It’s all kind of messed up, when love in marriage actually creates more problems than if there were no love at all."
"so I reiterate her guilt seems silly to me" - why? lady hae placed wook under a big emotional pressure: he was grateful for her help, but to be grateful is not enough to fall in love with somebody, and lady hae wanted to be loved romantically.
(it's ironic and sad, that in the relationship between baek-ah and lady hae the roles were reverse)
81 Johan
September 7, 2016 at 2:54 AM
thank u for the fast recap.?
love so much this episode as a whole.
I keep laughing on those funny scenes with Su & keep crying on the end.
the scene with lady Hae is so heartbreaking..it made me cry a river.
When i watched the raw episode, i cried just watching the last moments of Lady Hae..
and cried again when i watched it with english subbed.
I am so emotionally touched by the scenes that i cried a lot today.?
Well, i hope i wont be crying too much next wk.
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82 bluegreen25
September 7, 2016 at 3:00 AM
Liked two parts of this episode: emoji & ending scene. The rest, i got sleepy. Maybe i expected too much after episode 4. Or maybe bec there wasnt much scenes with 4th prince in it. Still, looking forward to ep6.
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83 lovefallacy
September 7, 2016 at 3:31 AM
Am I the only one who liked or noticed Su's funny / lopsided mouth / teasing expression when she was commenting on how princely So looks? I thought she really came across then as being comfortable with him.
I love LJK but somehow the age gap between him and IU makes me feel as if he's more of an older brother at this stage? I get that it's supposed to be a relationship developed from friendship, but I don't get the chemistry or the feeling like "oh they're meant for each other". But I'm excited to see how they develop the SoSu relationship.
About the Princess, I thought I liked her but her comment about So being an animal kind of turned me off. I wonder if she actually really likes So or if she's just attracted to a challenge?
Also does QueenMother have to be mean everytime she sees her poor abandoned son?
Really liked the 13th prince (ie. Nam Joo Hyuk) in this episode. I like that they're slowly developing the various princes - because I would want to have fleshed out characters when we get to the strife of the princes portion of the show.
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 4:14 AM
One thing I liked about the last episode is how he lets her carry the picnic basket thing that's really heavy. He puts his hand out, he wants to help her, but he's waiting for her to ask which she never does. I think he respects that about her, more than Wook maybe does, though Wook says he does. Wook would have carried it without asking. I just get the impression that Wang So would be more open to letting her be her and make her own decisions, whereas Wook would want to mentor her in a way that might suffocate her eventually. Don't know for sure though, it's just an impression I'm getting as to the difference between the two men.
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lovefallacy
September 7, 2016 at 8:28 AM
it's interesting you view it in that way, because I haven't thought that far. The picnic basket scene to me came across as So wanting to help her but not exactly knowing how to go about it.
Not sure if I agree with Wook possibly suffocating her because it seems as if he's okay with whatever she does - even beating up his kid brother. I haven't seen enough of his character to know if he will prize reputation / propriety over letting Haesoo be who she is.
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bips99
September 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM
I'm completely theorising but i don't think wook/Su would live happily ever after if they get married
He adores her now because she is all fun and bubbly and upto various antics that make him smile. But he is someone who is bound heavily in propriety, doing what is deemed right in eyes of society etc
He said that people come to him with his burdens but i don't think he realises how much of those burdens his wife took by making sure everything ran like clockwork, soothing relations with everyone etc. His mom also said that how important his wife had been in them regaining their status.
Su would be like a bull in china shop and everything that amuses him now will irritate him later when he realises that she is a liability.
WS on the other hand would say F-O to society since he is an outcast himself. He wouldn;t care for anyone;s opinion as long as they are together. Thats why WS/HS make more sense to me
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bbstl
September 7, 2016 at 10:34 AM
That's so interesting to think about, Su becoming a liability to Wook after her novelty wears off and real life sets in. I keep wondering what their relationship was like before her "accident" because Lady Hae is so determined on Su being Wook's next wife (which also keeps him tied to and supported by her family, politically). Did Wook have the hots for Su before the IU-Su as well?
Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 11:32 AM
I actually saw that picnic scene similar to the way that @lovefallacy did that he wanted to help but it was a bit too awkward a moment.
But your interpretation is interesting!
My impressions are still mixed up. Like I feel you could argue in reverse as well? With Wook, I thought it was really thoughtful that he got her the soap making ingredients. That for me felt that he was listening to her interests and letting her do her own thing. He's usually just a mix of confused and charmed when it comes to her actions and I don't know if he'd really want to stiffle all her quirks. He's never really schooled her, except perhaps to help or when there is a pretty genuine reason to worry. I might be missing something though!
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84 youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 4:13 AM
I do understand that people would be uncomfortable with the idea of Wook and Soo and their budding romance, given the context and Lade Hae, but for me, I always admire any show that is secure enough to make its leads showcase traits that may be unlikable, which gives its leads the space to be foolish, to be wrong, and which delves right into moral conflicts as this one.
What I find most interesting about this drama is that the traditional vs. modern debate regards the marital context is mostly carried about by the audience to justify their reactions either way. The drama itself has never taken the easy way out and said "well, these are the times, and your moral compass has to be attuned to them" as it could very easily have. Instead, it's highlighted the POV of those who feel this relationship is wrong, regardless of the times; Wook's tortured angst, Baek Ah's anger, Lady Hae being hurt, even Eun stating outright that he would like to be married to just one woman for a lifetime. We see the king with multiple wives, and we already saw Queen Yoo's reaction when the king decided to marry again, and yet the show never calls Wook's attraction to Su solely a product of the times; it's just as messy, as hurtful to people he loves, as torturous, as any modern day relationship of the sort.
This show has both romanticized the relationship between Wook and Su, and actively called them on that romanticism, which I find highly unusual and refreshing. What is telling is how many people seem to say that they would have been okay had Lady Hae not been such a sympathetic character or had the show followed the original adaptation and not made Lady Hae be in love with Wook, because then we wouldn't have to be so uncomfortable. I think that's interesting because it lays question on where the discomfort arises from; is it the breakdown of the sanctity of the institution of marriage, or is it that we're indifferent to seeing unsympathetic characters hurt in the same situations where we wouldn't want people we like to land. If we'd have been more okay seeing the Wook/Su development had Lady Hae been less sympathetic as a character or if people are more willing to accept a relationship as re: Ruoxi and the 8th prince because of their particular context, then it can't be that it's the 'going after a married man' part alone that hurts our sensibilities. It's going after a married man who has a wife who likes him and whom we like. It makes the audience come to terms with their own limits of what they'd prioritize, the context or the emotions.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 4:13 AM
On my part, I'm extremely glad that the show never made Lady Hae a conniving side-character, just to appeal to our sensibilities or make the show more comfortable. I love that it treated the Wook/Su relationship with a gentle, indulgent hand, highlighting all the small, insignificant, moments between them, which clearly meant much more to them than any ordinary moment should, and making us relate to that feeling of a new budding attraction, and uncertainty, the excitement, coupled with that sexual frission. And then bought the audience crashing down by presenting the same scene through a different, outsider's gaze, whether it be Baek Ah or Lady Hae. I love the clear POV shift in these moments; Wook watching Hae Soo laugh, and then the POV shifting to Lady Hae watching Wook watching Hae Soo laugh. This is deft work, changing the POV changes the tonality of the scene entirely, changes how we view the scene, and you can go through an entire gamut of conflicting emotions just through that shift.
I like how the irrationality of human emotion is highlighted through the audience response, that there are justifications and denials in the comments, as we try and cater to our POV. Because I feel like that mirrors Hae Soo entirely. I can understand that people feel she, at least, should have tried harder to not give in to attraction, but I think the comments themselves show that we're all used to viewing situations in our favor and justifying them to ourselves. Hae Soo justified her attraction to herself by ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist, and justified Wook's attraction to her by deliberately misreading it. I feel like, more than if she'd cut off all contact (which too she tried to do at times, she tried often to not run into him or seek him out), that she didn't, makes her more human. Being hurt doesn't make us impervious to hurting others. I can understand that Su may justify it to herself thinking "but nothing really happened," and that's not particularly nice or likeable, but it's definitely real. That people are conflicted about Hae Soo and questioning her, is what I'd count a victory for the narrative, because I'm very used to the lead female being absolved of all blame because most shows want their lead to be liked more than they want them to be complex or fully realized or just wrong at times.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 4:15 AM
But it absolutely amazed me how open this show was about calling its leads out on their actions. I often feel like there's a disconnect between how I see the characters and how the show sees them, that shows try to sell me as benevolent and kind, characters who may instead be selfish and manipulative. I love selfish and manipulative character but I need the show to acknowledge them as such. This show is completely clear-eyed about its characters and narrative. It openly acknowledged that even without any overt contact, Su and Wook had hurt Lady Hae, that they were fooling no one but themselves in pretending that their little moments together had no significance. That they were hurting Lady Hae and were comfortably oblivious to it because they were so involved in their own fantasy. And what's even better is that it was Baek Ah who called them out, the one person who knows what its like to be in love with a married woman. Even his anger on Lady Hae's behalf arises from his own feelings for her, and him talking to Su is him acting on those, which doesn’t seem as improper compared to Su and Wook’s actions, but is an active interference in Lady Hae’s life. Feelings that he keeps hinting at, and has even outright stated to Lady Hae, no matter the impropriety of the confession, and he seeks her out and says all this even after her marriage, which itself is not emotionally simple. I love that even this scene is more complex than just Hae Soo and Wook being called out on their behavior because Baek Ah is the one doing it, and that it will become the unlikely point of commonality and friendship between Su and Baek Ah.
I think it would have been easy enough for the show to make Su/Wook comfortable for the audience, there were a lot of ways they could have easily influenced the reception or changed the narrative or the characters, because it's not like they wouldn't know how much this would make the audience question Wook and Su. I’m really, really glad they didn’t.
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 4:33 AM
As usual, you and I agree, Zoe, and you've summarized it beautifully.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 11:48 AM
Ahh, thank you, I'm so glad we do, I feel like this is one of the more contentious aspects of the show and one that could potentially turn viewers off the lead, which is always a risky move, but I just do so love it when shows take these chances.
IvoryLight
September 7, 2016 at 4:52 AM
@Zoe, excellent analysis as always! Definitely no one note characters here, and I am more intrigued by 13 than ever! Aside from So and Wook, he's the one we've gotten the most emotional insight to.
Lady Hae was as far from the quintessential jealous wife as possible and I'm so glad they went that way with her. Here's hoping we get a similar insight into why Mean Princess is the way she is too!
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 6:28 AM
she walks on a minefield and she don't think that it's a crime to want to live :)
youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:01 PM
Aww, thank you! And I do agree about no one-note character, even maknae Jung has had his conflict and his tortured scene watching So walk away, Wang Eun is super cute but, like Su noted, he's unexpectedly pure and also super loyal. And Baek Ah's barely been on screen, but we still got so much insight into him. I like that this show knows how to make screentime work, so even though So had less of it in this episode, all his scenes were still memorable.
And Lady Hae was just so wonderful and sympathetic till the very end. The show didn't negate her to prop the leads, which is a decision I really appreciate. We even got a glimpse of her in her younger days, and she was just so endearing, and it made the present feel even more unfair and achingly sad. The show was so respectful to her unrequited love.
I actually really liked Yeon Hwa in this episode! I loved her scene with Taejo where she said all the right things, but you could still make out the determination of steel underneath. She seems rather coldly intelligent.
Andy Pandy
September 7, 2016 at 6:22 AM
This was such a beautiful analysis. ;A;
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:05 PM
Thank you! <3 A drama that prioritizes narrative over audience reception, I could get behind that ^^
blah
September 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM
wow this is beautiful T^T
please come back next week I'm gonna read everything you write about this show
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:06 PM
Haha, I'm pretty sure I will, my level of obsession is no joke, I stay awake till ridiculous hours just to watch the drama the moment the subs come out and it just has so many things worth discussing!
loveblossom
September 8, 2016 at 10:52 AM
@blah, I'm definitely doing the same! Hehe :)
@Zoe Thank you for the great analysis!!! ^^ It was a pleasure reading your insightful comments.
Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:43 AM
+++++alpha times millions!!!!!
Zoe, this was an excellent analysis!
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:09 PM
Thank you!!! I really like Wook and Su together because their sexual tension and feeling of blooming attraction is beautifully shot and portrayed, but I still love that the show so boldly called them out on their deliberate flirtation with the line, where they were just stopping shy of actually crossing it and thus deliberately ignoring consequences.
Lynn
September 7, 2016 at 7:53 AM
Savvy words @Zoe
... but I think the comments themselves show that we’re all used to viewing situations in our favor and justifying them to ourselves.
I also thought while watching the drama that this show is calling us out in our sense of what is 'morally correct'.
I mean as others have pointed out in BBJX Ruoxi's sister didn't love the 8th prince and everyone found it acceptable for them to be in love... However here they did the complete opposite (she loves him) and yet Hae Su and the 8th like each other nonetheless, and is wrong because, you know, Lady Hae loves her husband .
So is acceptable the first but not the second? I mean, as you pointed out, shouldn't it be about respecting the sanctity of marriage? Very clever show.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:37 PM
Yes! I just found the comments so interesting because technically neither of the sides was wrong and they both had compelling arguments to support their POV as regards the moral dilemma raised by the Su/Wook relationship. But of course it was telling that it's possible to make an argument for both, and each side picked those arguments which were the most convenient for it-- exactly what Su was doing. She believed in her heart-of-hearts that she was wrong, as did Wook, but they managed to convince themselves that it really was nothing, that pulling back meant nothing had happened at all, that the almost-kiss was a result of a near-death experience and heightened emotions, that no one knew of their feelings but them, that the other didn't even like them and they were (as Cindy would say) just building houses on their own. All arguments are convincing when you're willing yourself to be convinced.
And of course, the reactions as regards the low-key disappointment in some of the comments that this show deviated from the original in making Lady Hae be in love with her husband, are also fascinating, because it just shows how many different factors go into making our opinions based on our beliefs. Because had Lady Hae been unsympathetic, had she not loved Wook, nothing in principle would change as regards their marital status, but we'd just be more comfortable and more ready to cite that it was a marriage of convenience any way. I wonder if (or when) So marries Yeon Hwa, will the audience be equally turned off by a Su/So romance, since Yeon Hwa is not thus far a sympathetic character.
I really love that this show gives me a chance to read such conflicting view, and yet seems to remain neutral itself, and doesn't seem to pass value judgment either way.
85 youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 4:20 AM
How ridiculously adorable was So in this episode though, his casually slinging an arm around Su and their comfortable banter, his inability to completely adjust to court life and not knowing the basic protocols of being a prince, his quietly hanging around the other princes and even hesitantly participating on occasion. It's amazing how it all comes off as funny and bittersweet and sad, all at once. This show often gives me an emotional whiplash through the constant tonal and scene shifts, but I'm actually starting to enjoy the roller-coaster effect.
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86 YY
September 7, 2016 at 4:34 AM
I'm falling for 8th Prince, wook, line and sinker, so I've come up with a list of wookicisms as a tribute to the most devastatingly, most breathtakingly charming Second Lead to come by Korean Dramaworld in a thousand years:
wookworm: hot guy who spends all his time in the library with dusty old books.
wookie: new hot guy in the office
wook : long hard stare from hot guy
e.g. That wook! OMG I can't breathe...!!
all wooked up: that swoony, shaky feeling you get when hot guy stares long and hard at you.
closed wook: shy hot guy
open wook: outgoing hot guy
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 6:59 AM
Brilliant! Lol! I'm all wooked up about that wookie who pretends to read wooks while giving me hot wooks in the wookroom!
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YY
September 7, 2016 at 8:58 AM
What's hotter than Wook? A wok.
Wook's hobby? Wooing.
Wook, Su and Wife breakfasting together? Awkwood
Wook drunk with love: Wookaholic.
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:46 AM
" Wook, line and sinker! " Lmao!!!!
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:48 AM
" Wook, line and sinker ! " Lmao!!!!
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 10:16 AM
This is GOLD.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:40 PM
Hahahahah, these are ALL SO APPROPRIATE. Kang Hanuel's gaze should be illegal. Damn.
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loveblossom
September 7, 2016 at 3:39 PM
Hahaha love these! You are so funny YY!
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87 angelajungxx
September 7, 2016 at 5:09 AM
Such a good drama, the emotions were definitely felt by me !!
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88 angelajungxx
September 7, 2016 at 5:09 AM
Can't wait for the next episode, the trailer looked scary tho
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89 JT
September 7, 2016 at 5:10 AM
I can see why Moonlight Drawn by Clouds is doing better interms of viewership than Scarlet Heart. Main problem is the script and the characterization of the female leads. IU is not a particularly strong actor but having most of her lines limited to basically "huh?", "what?" and looking wideyed or teary does not really help. Whereas Kim You Jung's Ra On is a more fully fleshed and meaty character with substantial lines. Let's hope that the writer developed her role more. Well we can only hope since this is a preproduced drama, so all has been set in stone.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 5:43 AM
I don't think that's the case, though. Kim Yoo Jung is absolutely delight and a better actress than most twice her age, but I love IU in this and she definitely has substantial lines. This episode itself was fairly Su-centric and people loved it. Besides, you don't need lines for impact, two of the most beautiful scenes in this episode were Su putting make-up on Lady Hae and Su following Wook's footsteps in the snow, both of them without any dialogue whatsoever.
Moon Lovers lost out because Moonlight started earlier, it had the better editing, direction, nationally beloved actors, etc., and thus managed to keep its viewers and increase them (which is why the SH premiere had low ratings, which it wouldn't have, had people wanted to give the drama a chance at all.) Moon Lovers started out uneven and thus didn't engage new viewers, but keeps getting better and better. I watched Moonlight and I adore KYJ and she's great in her role, but Ra On didn't strike me as particularly different from a lot of female drama leads in similar dramas or any more deeply written. Neither is Hae Soo at the moment, and she has very candy-like traits at times, but that the show actually allowed her to be involved in that 'some' with a married prince, knowing that audience reception would be divided, is actually making me like her characterization. She was both hilarious and heartbreaking in this episode, that's a good range to draw on.
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 7:11 AM
I too thinks she's been given good lines and good scenes that she is executing well. I love both shows but it's only this one that's got me holding my breath for next week, commenting on this board, and trying to research early Goryeo. For that reason, I think the ratings will likely rise starting next week. A lot of people are probably recording it since it's on at the same time as the other Moon, which started earlier. Now SH is hitting its stride, the choice becomes which one people want to see now and which one they can wait an hour to see afterwards. I know which one I would choose, though the two shows were neck and neck for me before this week's episodes. We'll see if that changes. I'm not overly concerned with the ratings unless it means the show might get cancelled or shortened, but I think this was preproduced so there should be no fear of that. It's a global production so should make a lot of money in foreign markets, so the ratings in Korea won't spell flop in those terms. Although that fanservice scene in the first episode will still turn some viewers off, I think, it was just so awkward.
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Hanna Banana
September 7, 2016 at 11:43 PM
I agree! I think a major reason Scarlet Heart Ryeo is losing out in ratings is because Moonlight Drawn by Clouds had a head start and stayed consistently engaging. While it is obvious that Scarlet Heart Ryeo is not as popular as its competitor, I believe there is actually more people watching than is reflected in the ratings. We have to bear in mind that there are 2 saeguks in the same time slot, practically targeting the same audience, so naturally the audience can only choose to watch one or the other. But in this era of digital video recording and online streaming, it is likely that there are a number of viewers that will catch up with Scarlet Heart Ryeo later on these non-traditional platforms. Aside from the bad comments from the first week, most top comments from Knetz have been fairly positive. So I think it's just a matter of which is more engaging at the moment and which would the audience want to watch first.
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90 Annie
September 7, 2016 at 5:15 AM
Hey I was wondering if the 4th prince and the 8th prince are the same age (right!?) then how come they aren't like 4th and 5th princes!? How does that work!?!? Please someone explain it to me!!!!
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 5:25 AM
I assume princes #5 through 7 died off at an early age and that's why we don't see them.
though the odd numbers of princes left kind of remind me of the big debate over Cylon model numbers in Battlestar Galactica.
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jomo143
September 7, 2016 at 5:58 AM
What pogo said. plus, maybe if they fall out of favor, they get disnumbered.
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Iluljk
September 7, 2016 at 7:17 AM
I always thought that maybe in between 4th prince and 8th prince were the princesses? Like 4th child is a boy so he became 4th prince Later the 5th 6th 7th were girls so they become respective princesses..then came 8th child a boy..8th prince
This is just my guest..not based on any historical account at all..
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM
" maybe if they fall out of favour, they get disnumberd" Lmao
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Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 11:38 AM
Don't give that Evil Queen Mother any more ideas! :D
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chocopieb
September 8, 2016 at 8:26 AM
just like how 8th was once kicked out.. maybe the others got kicked out too :p
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JiaYou
September 8, 2016 at 1:56 AM
I think they died. I read one Joseon king's family line in a totally unreliable source (wiki), his second son is called the second prince still even if the 1st son died a long time ago during childhood.
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91 kthln
September 7, 2016 at 5:28 AM
Man!!!!! the last few scenes really wrenched my heart. I cried so hard during the make up scene and the last moments of Lady Hae. Kang Hanuel, you are killing me with your expressions!! aghhhh!!! what i would give to have you gaze at me with those eyes, sigh!
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92 kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 5:29 AM
I think the one thing I really liked from this episode was the flashback that Lady Hae had of her first encounter with Wook. It showed, to me at least, how she was as a young lady (happy, cheerful, playful, and definitely head-over-heels for Wook lol) and how she could possibly have been like Su if she wasn't sick. In many ways I feel like Lady Hae is sort of willing her love for Wook to live on through Su (though this sounds kind of iffy but it still is very sad to me), because Su is going to be the one who has the ability to do the things that she could never for Wook. And that just makes me so sad weeps. Poor Lady Hae and her love that was never fully requited. Maybe Wook did love her in a non-romantic way, yes, but it just seems even more painful to me that he never managed to respond the way she would have truly wanted him to. But I also guess this is why love can never be forced--and Lady Hae is the exact opposite of that.
(First post here btw!! I really needed to let out how I felt about MLSHR and thought Dramabeans was the perfect place, what with the detailed commentary and thoughtful comments and all hehe)
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pogo
September 7, 2016 at 6:08 AM
wow, that's a really good point, about how young, not-yet-sick Lady Hae was like Su when she first saw Wook- I didn't think to draw that parallel!
(and welcome to db!)
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kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 6:19 AM
I feel that this is also the reason why she doted on Su so much? That Su was becoming the type of person that she would have been but could not, because of her sickness. That makes the fact that Wook didn't love her doubly sad, because who knows what could have happened if she didn't fall sick? But then again everything is always clearer in retrospect, and I admire that Lady Hae, even in her dying moments, was as always willing to respect that Wook's emotions, and leave the world knowing that at least the person she loved had someone to love of his own now. Cries now I'm even sadder for Lady Hae!
Thank you!! I hope to have fun :)
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mary
September 7, 2016 at 2:25 PM
So Wook would've fell in love with her over time if she didn't fall sick? I'm... :'(
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 4:02 PM
That's just so sad, it makes me sadder than I am. But I feel it was more than that, I think it wasn't so much the illness as the palace life that killed her spirit- the illness only contributed to it. We don't know when they got married or when she fell ill, but it's easy to believe that Wook may have fallen in love with her over time. And that he didn't, I feel, was more because they got caught up with obligations, and the burden of being a royal couple, and it necessarily changed them. She probably became more quiet and reticent to be a proper wife for a prince- he was out of favor with the king, and having a strong-headed wife would just hinder him. While, for him it was largely a political marriage from the beginning, so while he had great affection for her, he probably never even thought of 'love' beyond that. And then he never had the chance to fall in love with her as she used to be because she didn't have the chance to continue to be as she was.
That's my reading through all the things that Myung Hee says to Su about behavior and palace rules in the previous episodes, how meticulously she upholds them (which is not the impression she gives in the flashback, and doesn't seem illness-related), how she's always cognizant of consequences and risks of their follies for the prince, and how, even one of her last wishes for Su is that living so close to the palace she be careful of her words and actions. It seems like the palace life that she'd only wanted to raise Wook from his fallen state, suffocated her.
youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 6:19 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking! That flashback Lady Hae kind of reminded me of Su in a way, and it was so beautiful and so sad to see her as she used to be, and for the show to remind us that she wasn't always tired, and ill, or even particularly proper, but high-spirited, and determined to win over her love. Which is something that never struck me at all, I'd never even once thought of how she may have been when healthy and young. I just assumed she was always as quiet, and retiring, and refined. Maybe that's why she seems to forgive Su all her antics, because she understands her more than most people. That just such a lovely realization, and so sad that we realized it so late.
And yay! Welcome to DM, MLSHR is a good drama to enter on because the discussion never seems to stop ^^
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kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 6:26 AM
Yes, exactly! I think that we were all used to seeing Lady Hae as the graceful lady of the house, so much so that it was so easy to neglect the person she was before the sickness took so much of her life away. I agree so much that she was so determined to win over her love, and that was shown so beautifully by the show in this flashback. It makes my heart ache so much, because Lady Hae had to have changed herself for Wook's sake as well. How much would she have needed to do in order to bring him and his family back to Songak, now that we know how ruthless Taejo can be? How much would she have needed to repress her original carefree self in order to do so? It really tugs at my heartstrings because Lady Hae's love for Wook knew no boundaries, and even in death it still is as magnanimous and deep as it was when she was alive. Weeps. Lady Hae we'll miss you! You were an amazing, amazing woman.
Thank you! I realise that everyone here has something interesting to say, and I've been reading your comments too Zoe! Your analysis of the characters and the drama itself is great :)
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93 Wit Beyond Measure
September 7, 2016 at 5:47 AM
1) I'm glad there's six days till the next episode, it's going to take me at least that long to move on from Lady Hae's death.
2)There's something about Kang Hanna' acting in this that's confusing me. It's so obvious that she's fake in a lot of her interactions but with the kind of character she is I can't help but wonder if that isn't intentional. It's still a bit jarring.
3)The whole modern vs ancient concept of marriages is a moot point. Here we have characters with a fully personal investment in one another, Lady Hae acted on what she wanted, the fact that it wasn't reciprocated was a personal hurt not a superficial one based on pride.
4)Not a lot of So in this but this ep really cemented the similarities between him and Su and the foundation they've built which is a damn bit more than just the chemistry that Wook and Su have. There's work that's gone into their relationship, both parties trying to empathise with the other and it's a lot more solid.
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Andy Pandy
September 7, 2016 at 6:34 AM
Honestly, there is something that bothers me about Kang Hanna's acting as well. She lacks...subtlety? From the moment she first interacted with So, I felt like there was something off about her, and I just feel like she's giving her character a very one-dimensional treatment.
IU didn't do so well with her crying scene in episode 3, but she blew me away with her emotions in this episode, so I hope that Kang Hanna's performance could change for the better.
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM
i think that what we see now it's just her mask, an impersionation - therefore it seems one-dimensional, but she has more layers, like the others
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None
September 7, 2016 at 7:14 AM
It is a mask of course but it feels too obvious a mask. Could do with a bit more subtlety.
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taro
September 7, 2016 at 7:30 AM
she is like a kitten who wants to look like a lioness. she could do it better, but she is able to do it better?!
her character, like many others in the drama is lonely and hurt. her coping mechanism is so different from her own brother, frome her mother...
she is an interessting character
Andy Pandy
September 7, 2016 at 10:15 AM
I'd love for her character to have more layers, but right now, the actress isn't showing me any more potential for that (and I hope the screenwriter is going to give her more layers rather than just keeping her as a sly fox of sorts, lol). I hope I'm proven wrong though!
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94 WishfulToki
September 7, 2016 at 5:57 AM
I suffered through Shine or Go Crazy a few months ago, mainly for the love of Jang Hyuk's mane of glory. I now kind of wish I hadn't because Moon Lovers sometimes seems like a teen version of Shine.
BUT I am actually enjoying Moon Lovers instead of banging my head against the wall as in Shine or Go Crazy. This has the potential to be a good drama if they continue developing characters like Lady Hae (and ease off on the close-ups sheesh!) I never actually liked any character in Shine or Go Crazy (except Wang So/Goryeo Gun), and couldn't care less if Gaebong decided to stay or go in the end. Such a waste of a mane of glory in that drama T-T
There is hope here - just give us more LJK pretty please.
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95 youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 6:08 AM
Also, can I just say, an entire episode for the ladies, how glorious. Hae Soo, Lady Hae, Queen Sinjeong, even Queen Sinmyeongsunseong, and Yeon Hwa. I love that they were prioritized and explored. There were so many interactions between them, so many different dynamics and moments; the two queens, Lady Hae and Wook's mother, Hae Soo and Lady Hae. I love that they all have their individual relationships with each other and different personalities. Little moments like Queen Sinjeong's amusement at watching her son trying to control his laughter at Su's sageuk speak, or Queen Yoo obviously interested in the gift and pleased when she gets one but trying to hide it, Lady Hae and her mother-in-law's heartfelt farewell scene where you could tell how much she liked her daughter-in-law beyond the mere political convenience, Su and Myung Hee's heartbreaking make up scene.
Apart from Wook, no other male character had a significant screen-time this episode, but it was no less enjoyable for it. I can't even overstate how much I love the fact that this show is comfortable enough to allow its much hyped, much promoted (and undeniably gorgeous) male cast to take a back-seat on occasion, even including its male lead, Wang So, even though it would seem a majority of the audience is watching for them. Again, that's an unusual choice, and one that not many dramas would be willing to make. I am baffled by a lot of writing choices in Scarlet Heart, but it genuinely blows me away with some.
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Flightey Gazelles
September 7, 2016 at 8:00 AM
Zoe, you've gotta stop making so much sense. My necks already aching from nodding along vigorously!
That being said, I love your analysis!!
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:44 PM
Haha, that's good to hear, I'm a little embarrassed of writing such long comments, as if I have a thesis submission due on this ^^ But this show is really bringing all the discussions to the yard, like suddenly I know so much more History, lol
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Bauble
September 7, 2016 at 11:48 AM
No! Stop showing me depth! What if it's all in our head (ugh, harry potter quote pops into my head the next second) and the show veers off? Don't make me hope for more!
But seriously @Zoe, you've got A+ analysis game.
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youcallitwinter
September 7, 2016 at 12:48 PM
LOL, I made a Harry Potter reference in the comments thread for the last episode just yesterday re: time travel! But it's true, I'm so afraid, can this show really maintain its upwards trajectory episode after episode, wouldn't that be impossible considering it's already so good? So many shows just lose steam by the second half TT But SH has more story to cover in a shorter period of time than the original, so they should be fine. *starts praying*
Aww, you're too kind, thank you!
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96 None
September 7, 2016 at 6:10 AM
Wook's shaky 'Shh' killed me. I am dead.
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IvoryLight
September 7, 2016 at 6:45 AM
Oh you mean the part when the show reached into my chest and squished my heart?
That scene? Complete with the trembling voice when he told Su not to wake Lady Hae?
KHN slayed that scene so did IU. Being sliiiiightly petty (forgive me) I wish I could replay that scene over and over for her haters hehe.
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None
September 7, 2016 at 7:02 AM
He looked so heartbreakingly young in that moment too, as if he didn't expect that it would ever happen, that she would ever actually die even though she was sick, it was like seeing him lose his innocence.
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97 Cereal
September 7, 2016 at 6:16 AM
I watched the c-drama in 2011. It was beautiful (other than the men's half shaved Qing heads) but I didn't like the latter part of the plot. I am really enjoying the k-drama version a lot more. I think it has to do with the k-drama standards and tropes and how they changed the plotline. Scarlet Heart Ryeo is a fun, fun romp and I think everything has been well done, including IU's acting and the princes. I'm glad they set it in Goryeo, when the social mores were more wild than Joseon. It's too bad Moonlight by Clouds is the competition because I hear it is really good too.
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98 Cereal
September 7, 2016 at 6:22 AM
Someone asked about the numbering of princes. I don't know how Goryeo did it, but I think some royal families in China named their kids, both genders, by the same numbering system. So it could be 1 prince, 2 princess, 3 princess, 4 prince, 5 princess, 6 princess, 7 princess, 8 prince, 9 princess, 10 prince, etc.
Or maybe the princes were numbered 1-20 (or whatever crazy number of kids the king had with his many, many consorts - according to wiki he married the daughter of every local leader on his way to consolidating the korean peninsula), and some died along the way.
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kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 6:36 AM
I believe that the Chinese imperial families numbered their children only when they reached a certain age (I vaguely recall two or three years old), since most of them would die in infancy. So I'm assuming that this applied to Goryeo as well, and that princes 5 to 7 all reached that minimum age and were numbered, but did not make it to adulthood... which is really sad :(
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kumoiwa
September 7, 2016 at 6:38 AM
Oh and I do believe they numbered their princes and princesses separately too!
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Barbrey
September 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM
I asked about this in an earlier ep too but we came to no hard and fast conclusion. Taejo had 25 sons and 9 daughters so it might have been a way for everyone to avoid having to remember their names! That said, I think theyve just retained the numbering from the original novel.
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Napkiin
September 7, 2016 at 4:56 PM
They name the princes and princesses separately. It would be 1st prince, 1st princess, 2nd prince, 2nd princess etc
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99 bunny
September 7, 2016 at 6:53 AM
1. I think the music scores of this drama are amazing. The music they use for the moment when Lady Hae died gave me goosebumps.
2. The settings and the music work hand in hand and I pay attention to how this drama become more and more familiar and beautiful. It feels patchy at first, but either it grows on me, or it improves as the episodes move forward.
3. This drama makes me realize the asset that is Kang Ha Neul's perfect eyebrows. Sleepy eyes, and chiseled figure. Basically I now understand why his fans are growing and going nuts for him. Bahaha.
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100 elatedle
September 7, 2016 at 7:11 AM
After watching 5 eps, i don't think i am disappointed in the show, coming from someone who read the original novel and watched C-BBJX.
But i guess u can say im biased to the whole thing already because im such a huge fan of the original. (rematch the C-BBJX at least 5 times *no shame*)
I believe the K-BBJX is trying to strike a balance on the show - keeping the original plot but different at the same time. While IU's acting isn't bad but it took 3 eps for me to warm up to her. (I still prefer her in Producers).
Now that the show is getting on its track, im excited to see what will unveil next. Certainly it is expected that Hae-soo will end up falling with Wang So just like the C-BBJX. But here's the difference, Rouxi was initially afraid of the 4th prince at the beginning for quite some time and did not have much interactions due to Roux's fear of him but the K-BBJX changed it up. You see Hae-soo approaching and caring for Wang So so quickly even tho he almost had her killed. Their relationship progressed much faster than the C-BBJX.
Im presuming that the K-BBJX will cover significant number of years so im not so sure if it was wise of them to cut the show into 20 eps instead of making it longer. I was initially irritated with the first few eps because they KEPT CUTTING SCENES THAT I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE MAIN LEADS esp. Hae-soo !! They basically tried to squeeze so much into the 1st 3 eps - her encounter w the princes (esp Wang So/Wook) and other characters, her struggling with her new life, etc.
okay thats my very choppy summary of my feelings for the whole show as of now. (pardon my writing)
BUT YES I AM SO HAPPY W THE LASTEST 2 EPS. LJK AND KHN KILLED IT. (Btw, Can i just say how much i wanna slap evil queen - how dare she spit such means words to LJK.)
Anyhow, LJK and KHN's acting is on a whole new level with the other princes. Maybe thats why the other princes look like they can't act - Ji Soo & Baekhyun. But Baekhyun's character is for comical relief so im not complaining. But... for Jisoo.... If the K-BBJX follows C-BBJX to the character development for 14th prince - i am worried as to how jisoo is gonna bring out that character.
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