Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 11
by HeadsNo2
Now this is the kind of episode I’d been waiting for, and boy, does it deliver an emotional wallop. Everything seems to happen at once, leaving Su powerless against the much greater forces surrounding her. It’s not so easy for her suitors to swoop in and save the day this time, and the divide that causes may spell the end of one beloved relationship, while opening the door for another.
EPISODE 11 RECAP
So takes that one last, longing look at Su after ingesting the poison, and excuses himself before any of his symptoms can be revealed. Princess Yeonhwa jumps up as though to say something, but ends up merely smiling instead as she tells the king that she has a request on behalf of her brother, Wook.
As Su walks away, So stumbles in his attempt to follow her as the vision of her begins to blur. He reaches out his hand toward her, but it’s only when he coughs in a spray of blood that Su turns around and sees him. He falls, and Su immediately runs to his side to call for help.
He attempts to silence her so that she won’t be found with him, but he falls unconscious before he can tell her why. She just resumes her panicked cries for help.
Princess Yeonhwa claims that she also wants to make three toasts (as So did) before giving the king her requests. Queen Sinmyeongsunseong watches as Yeonhwa pours herself a cup from the crown prince’s tea. Even refreshed, is it still poisoned?
Her first request is for the king to let Wook remarry, prompting Wook to say that there is someone he has in mind. King Taejo permits the request without knowing who the girl is, and Yeonhwa brings the cup to her lips.
But instead of drinking, she stealthily pours the liquid down her sleeve. She acts as though she’s been poisoned, however, and dramatically swoons. Queen Sinmyeongsunseong scoffs at the act before announcing that it’s poison (as if she didn’t already know), while Yeonhwa weakly calls for them to help her half-brother, So.
Blood drips from the corner of Yeonhwa’s mouth as everyone around her panics. Baek-ah finds So and Su first, but the other princes aren’t far behind. Ninth prince Won immediately blames Su for serving the tea, though it’s Astronomer Choi who announces that she’s being arrested for attempted assassination of a prince.
Court Lady Oh watches as Su’s room is torn apart, though she recognizes that there’s a darker plan at work—Su wasn’t originally supposed to serve the tea, and the court lady who was has mysteriously gone missing.
Minister Park Young-gyu seems delighted when he finds a necklace (the one the crown prince gave her) among Su’s things, while one of the soldiers “finds” the vial of poison.
Queen Sinjeong frets as the royal doctor checks her daughter’s pulse, though he claims she’ll be fine. Only when the queen is gone does Yeonhwa rise from her bed, completely fine. She only pretended to drink the poison, she tells the doctor, and bit the inside of her lip to cause the bleeding.
This she announces freely to the doctor, while warning him to keep silent now that she’s freed herself from any suspicion. No one would believe that she willingly poisoned herself.
The antidote is spoon-fed to an unconscious So by another royal doctor as Astronomer Choi, Baek-ah, and Crown Prince Mu look on. Astronomer Choi notes that So just might make it because Grand General Park trained his body to resist poison, but neither of them can figure out why So would have drank three glasses. Surely he knew it was poison after the first.
Crown Prince Mu accurately guesses that the true target of the poison was him and not So, while Baek-ah and Astronomer Choi figure that he tried to leave before his symptoms could be known in order to protect the culprit. But who?
Wook finds said culprit curled up against the wall of a prison cell, and he takes in her bloodied hands when she grasps the wooden bars. He puts his hand over hers, but pulls away when her first question is to ask how So is doing.
Her concern for So seems to make Wook very unhappy, and it’s with a flat voice that he tells her that So will be fine. She needs to worry about herself now that she’s suspected of poisoning the tea, and while he believes in her innocence, there’s no proof.
He warns her that they might very well torture her to find out who was behind the poisoning, but he implores her to endure long enough for him to get her out. She puts on a brave face as she says that she won’t let them use her to frame someone else, so she’s prepared. (Hasn’t she ever seen a sageuk?)
At the next assembly, Minister Park posits that it was Crown Prince Mu who tried to poison So through Su. Mu vehemently defends himself, but Astronomer Choi stops him, lest he end up revealing his illness to the court.
Wook’s theory is that the poison was intended for the crown prince, but was accidentally given to So. Princess Yeonhwa’s poisoning proves as much, though it doesn’t alleviate any of the suspicion with regards to Su’s role in all of it.
King Taejo announces that Su will be hanged for her crime, but the crown prince isn’t willing to let another person die for him, even if it means keeping his illness under wraps. He asks that the king cast him aside instead, but Taejo refuses. Mu is his firstborn, and he wants to give him everything he can.
So attempts to leave his sickbed early to go to Su, who he knows must be alone and suffering. Wook updates him on the allegations against Su, and despite all of them knowing that it makes no sense, he can’t see a way to get her out of it. “I should have never let Hae Su get mixed up with you,” Wook adds, under his breath.
After sending Baek-ah away, So reveals to Wook that it was his mother who was behind the poisoning. At first, Wook accuses So of drinking the poison to protect his mother, but So claims that he did it to save Su and the crown prince.
So adds that he was trying to prevent anyone from finding out about it, but that all changed when Princess Yeonhwa drank the poison. He admits that he wasn’t able to say anything about it before it happened, but now he has to depend on Wook to expose Queen Sinmyeongsunseong’s machinations and save Su.
That night, So goes to the prison to see Su trembling on the floor of her cell, covered in blood from the day’s torture. She rises with great difficulty, yet her only happiness is in seeing that So isn’t dead. “You knew it was poisoned,” she says. Did he drink it in order to save her from suspicion?
So calls the theory nonsense, claiming that he’s not the kind of man to drink poison for a girl. Aw, you big softie. She sees through the lie and tearfully asks why he would do such a thing—did he think her feelings would change? But in her mind, she thinks, “Who am I that you would put your life on the line for me? If you do this, it makes it harder for me to turn away from you.”
He gives her a small smile, admonishing her for always causing him problems. There’s so much left unsaid between them as they manage to make light of the situation despite the severity of it all, as he tells her that she’ll be freed soon. She just sighs, “I don’t know what to do with you.” So replies in kind. That’s oddly sweet.
Meanwhile, Wook tracks down the court lady who first conspired with Princess Yeonhwa, now receiving another package from her. The princess is in disguise, so Wook uses his metal hairpin to threaten the court lady into revealing the truth—if she does, he’ll let her live.
He asks the cloaked figure to reveal himself, only to be taken aback when it’s his sister. The court lady uses the opportunity to make an escape, with Wook too shell-shocked to stop her.
The princess, ever the arrogant one, knows that Wook can’t reveal her crime without damning his entire family as traitors. When he demands to know why she did it, she fires back that he was about to throw away his chance to be king for that girl, and she had to stop him.
When he retorts that he has no desire to be king, she challenges him to search his innermost thoughts. Didn’t he feel wronged when So performed the rain ritual? She knows he wants to be king, and if he still denies it, he can throw both her and their mother away.
Wook suddenly throws the hairpin he’d been holding, and it lands straight in the scheming court lady’s neck. She knows as well as he does that he can’t just cast his own family aside. “From this point on, Yeonhwa, you are no longer my sweet sister. You are a debtor. You to me, and I to you.” He seems resigned to his fate as he says this, and Yeonhwa accepts his offer, though she claims she’ll repay that debt by giving him the throne.
Defeated, Wook says that she can now do with him as she wishes. He has no choice but to submit to her control in order to save his family, even if it means giving up on Su.
He still goes to the prison that night, clutching the bloody hairpin he removed from the court lady’s neck. He drops it outside and turns to leave after one tortured look.
Now fourteenth prince Jung feels like he has to take it upon himself to try and save Su if no one else will, but Wook only acknowledges the presence hiding in the room: Chae-ryung. She falls to her knees as she tearfully begs Wook to save Su. He remains silent, though her pleading makes him visibly uncomfortable.
So goes to the king to ask for Su’s life, even daring to ask if the king is so willing to sacrifice her for the crown prince’s sake. King Taejo doesn’t see the big deal in sacrificing a lowly life in order to save an important one, which So takes particular offense to. Is this what being king means?
Taejo clocks him for his impudence, and warns his son that he’ll kill him if he asks about Su again. The same will happen to anyone else who thinks to plead for her life.
Court Lady Oh visits the prison that night wearing a veil, and tears up at the sight of a bloodied and broken Su lying on the ground. Resolved, she returns to the palace to find Wook waiting for her. He has one request for her: “Stand up for Hae Su. You are the only one who can change the king’s mind.”
When she says that she can’t make such a request, Wook asks if she’ll just let Su die. “I know you feel like a mother to her,” he says, adding that he realized that was the reason Court Lady Oh never liked seeing Su with him. Court Lady Oh turns that back on him, asking why he can’t save Su—doesn’t he love her?
She accurately guesses that it’s his own household holding him back, and his own ambition for the throne. “The reason why men in the royal family become cowards is always the same,” she notes with disdain. “Someday, you will come to regret your cowardly actions today. This one time you turned your back on her will haunt you for the rest of your days.”
With this said, she assents to go to the king herself, since she does care for Su and knows that Wook can’t save her.
After serving the king’s tea, Court Lady Oh waits until she is called upon to speak in order to say: “It was I who tried to poison the crown prince.” Oh no. Oh no! She goes on to give adequate reasons, like the loss of her child (which previous episodes hinted at being Queen Sinmyeongsunseong’s doing), though King Taejo would rather pretend she said nothing.
She lays out the bloody clothes of an infant as she tells him that someone in the royal family sent her tea to drink while she was pregnant ten years ago. Seven days later, her baby died, his baby died, and she’s not about to let the same person who poisoned her get away with killing a girl who’s like a daughter to her.
King Taejo tells her that Su isn’t a replacement for her dead child, and that there’s no evidence against Queen Sinmyeongsunseong. “Will you look the other way this time as well?” Court Lady Oh asks him tearfully. “I will die soon,” she adds, putting a name to the illness that’s been plaguing her: cancer of the stomach.
She knows that King Taejo is acting to save the crown prince, but requests that he help her save Su, so that she won’t lose another child to the evil queen. His eyes wet with unshed tears, Taejo asks if this means she’s finally casting him aside, and a tear snakes down Court Lady Oh’s cheek in answer.
The next morning, So runs to the execution platform, where a bloody and bedraggled Su is being taken to the noose. Her eyes widen in fear as she wonders if this is the end for her, but she only begins to panic when she doesn’t see Wook.
As she looks around for him, it’s not Wook who arrives, but So. He fights his way through the guards, announcing to them that he’ll be taking her with him. He’s willing to spill blood their blood if he must.
But then, Astronomer Choi runs to the execution grounds with a royal command in his hand: There won’t be a hanging, as the real culprit has been discovered. Su promptly faints.
Court Lady Oh walks with dignity to the soldiers ready to take her away, taking one last look around the palace. Su witnesses her assenting to her own punishment and limps over to her, demanding to know what’s going on. “I put the poison in the crown prince’s tea,” the court lady replies.
Su knows she’s lying, but Court Lady Oh has to keep up the pretense in order to save her. So holds off the guards long enough for Su to drag Court Lady Oh into the secret tunnel beneath the baths, only to come up against the newly blocked exit.
Despair washes over Su as she takes this in, and she takes it upon herself to pull at the rocks blocking their exit. “You said we should go to your hometown,” she says, her voice distant. “Let’s go now.” Oof, this is hard to watch. Even Court Lady Oh sheds a tear as Su tries in vain to clear the way.
Court Lady Oh pulls her away, but Su cries—she knows that this is only a cover-up, and Oh will die in her place. She turns back to the exit, but Oh pulls the crying girl into an embrace. “It’s not your fault. I’m not doing this for you. I’m doing this for the king.”
She strokes the girl’s back as she says that she would die soon anyway, so there’s no need for Su to feel burdened. “I’m fine,” Court Lady Oh says through her tears. As she looks down at the scar on Su’s wrist, she mirrors what Su once said about having no regrets for protecting what she needed to protect.
Su sobs piteously as Court Lady Oh again takes her into her arms. She doesn’t say this aloud, but she repeats the advice she’s been giving to Su all this time, because she doesn’t want Su to end up like her.
We find Su in a fresh set of clothes as she limps her way to the king’s quarters. She kneels in front of the steps to make a formal protest for him to allow Court Lady Oh to live, despite her voice being too weak to carry far.
Wook tries to run to her aid only to be stopped by his mother, who refuses to let her son risk his life. Princess Yeonhwa reminds him that he turned his back on Su once, so why can’t he do it again? Wook sends his sister a look: “How much more indebted to me do you want to become?”
Queen Sinmyeongsunseong comes over to gloat and challenge Wook—if he doesn’t believe Court Lady Oh is the culprit, does he believe her to be guilty? His mother immediately prostrates herself at the evil queen’s feet, begging for her to leave her children alone.
Wook tries to pull his mother to her feet, but she brushes him off to continue her heartfelt plea. Queen Sinmyeongsunseong remains arrogant, admonishing Queen Sinjeong for raising her son poorly as said son remains powerless to defend his own mother.
Su’s pleas grow quieter as she grows weaker, even though she continues into the night. By now it’s just a whisper, and she has to struggle to keep from falling over. Baek-ah tries to tell her that her pleas are futile, and that despite everyone knowing that Court Lady Oh is innocent, no one would dare stand up to the king.
He reminds her that Court Lady Oh just barely managed to save her, and if she keeps being stubborn, Oh’s efforts will be for naught. “It is better than doing nothing,” Su replies, causing Baek-ah to give up on trying to stop her. But before he leaves, she asks where Wook is. Ouch.
The next morning, Queen Sinjeong asks the king to rescind the order for Court Lady Oh’s execution. He refuses, and when Astronomer Choi says that Su has been outside protesting for two days, King Taejo announces that if anyone takes her side, they’ll have to answer to him.
It begins to rain, and poor Jung has to be held back by his other brothers from going out to Su with an umbrella. Jung, finally having enough, leaves the safety of the eave to kneel in solidarity with Su. Baek-ah joins him, as does the crown prince (though he stands). Ninth prince Won refuses to have any part of it.
Wook finally approaches Su in the pouring rain, and this look of hope spreads across her features that’s just heartbreaking. But when he stops and begins to back away, realization seems to set in. As he turns away from her, Su can only ask, “Why?”
Just when it seems all hope is lost, a figure emerges next to her and spreads his cloak to cover her. It’s So, who says nothing as Su straightens just enough to remain under the meager protection.
Queen Sinmyeongsunseong takes a moment to taunt Court Lady Oh, who’s on her way to the gallows. She says that Oh dying first means she’s lost, but Oh says the queen has never once beaten her. The evil queen makes sure to have the last word, as she says that Oh is nothing but a lowly court lady who no one will remember after her death.
“If one person remembers me,” Court Lady Oh thinks to herself, “that is enough for me.” In the king’s courtyard, the princes and Su hear the gong signifying the execution. What they don’t see is the support drop out from under Court Lady Oh’s feet as she strangles on the end of the noose before going still.
The king suddenly loses his footing, which is likely all the emotion we’ll see from him regarding her death. In the courtyard, So tries to comfort Su as she screams for Court Lady Oh.
“If I had known someone would die because of me, I would not have been so greedy to live again. If only this was a dream… if only I could wake up without remembering any of this,” we hear Su say in voiceover as she faints in So’s arms.
COMMENTS
I knew that the show would have to work hard to drive a believable rift between Wook and Su, but I was honestly surprised at how well they managed to pull that off this episode. Everything seemed dialed to eleven today, and to great effect—this is definitely the best effort we’ve seen from this show, and it’d be hard to pinpoint just one reason why. It’s one of those situations where everything finally just seemed to work, enough to where those little inconsistencies ceased to matter, and we could just focus on the emotional impact of what we were seeing.
Wook’s turn to the dark side was really unfortunate, if only because it wouldn’t have happened were it not for Princess Yeonhwa’s meddling and manipulation. I thought she’d resolved to become more than just the sister of a king, but now it seems like she’s thrown her entire weight behind the idea of making Wook king. And at the cost she’s made him pay, she better have been truthful about everything she said—it was her own ambition for power that caused her to implicate Su in the first place, and while her words to Wook about doing it all for him didn’t ring untrue, it made her seem much more selfless than she actually was. The “I did what I did for you” could’ve made sense had she not conspired with Queen Sinmyeongsunseong in the first place, especially knowing that the evil queen has always had it out for her family.
At least Yeonhwa seemed to realize her mistake when she saw her own mother prostrate herself in front of the queen, but by then, it was too little, too late. It helps to know that Wook disdains his sister for her actions even if he had no choice but to fall into her trap—which is why I can’t hate him for it. Yeonhwa really did make it so that he had to choose between his own family or Su, and for someone as upright as Wook, it would have been unreasonable to expect that he could throw the lives of his mother and sister away, even for the woman he loves.
I actually felt like the show handled his transition much better than expected, because it would’ve been too easy for him to just go wholesale bad. But he knew enough to feel guilty for his inaction, and tried his best to still be of some help to Su, even if it meant helping her from the shadows. Him walking toward her only to literally turn his back on her toward the end was a little heavy-handed, admittedly, but it was the kind of closure Su needed for the question that had been undoubtedly plaguing her throughout the episode’s events: Where was the savior she was promised?
The fact that her savior came in the form of Court Lady Oh was even more unexpected, but fitting. And when that thread really got going, it was absolutely heartbreaking. Court Lady Oh had been one of the deeper characters presented to us, and her constant watchfulness over Su had already clued us into the depth of feeling she had for the girl. We knew that she looked at Su as a younger version of herself, but the parallels between taking her on as a daughter to replace the child she’d lost—to the evil queen’s machinations, no less—were solid enough for her sacrifice to ring as both believable and extremely, extremely sad.
Her sacrifice didn’t come off as a deus ex machina to save Su from the gallows, but as more of a natural progression of their relationship, made easier to bear by Court Lady Oh’s terminal illness. I doubt that she needed Wook to ask her for her to have done what she did, and even if it was a teensy bit hard to buy that Su and her could just run off together, the moment they had in the cave was worth the suspension of disbelief required to get them there. Giving them that last chance to say their goodbyes was hard to watch, but along with making Court Lady Oh into one of the best characters ever, it went a long way toward endearing Su as a character. She still doesn’t have any agency, but at least she’s still willing to try despite being powerless.
While I did think it was a bit of a letdown to miss out on Su’s inner thoughts during her torture and even directly afterward, I guess we could say that she was counting on Wook to rescue her until the end, which is why she didn’t show fear until she realized that he wasn’t coming to save the day. Still, it was jarring to see how well she handled being cruelly tortured and imprisoned, but that’s neither here nor there anymore.
Despite whatever Wook was trying to do in the background, it was really So who emerged as Su’s defender, and that almost reckless abandon for his own status and future was what sold his love for Su to me. I’d been on the fence about their relationship before, which wasn’t helped by So’s emotional immaturity, but seeing him throw caution to the wind to save Su—or at least die trying—was powerful. It’s enough to make me think that even if Court Lady Oh hadn’t stepped in, So’s efforts might’ve just been enough to save Su. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking. I can’t tell if Su is just that lucky, or just that unlucky anymore.
RELATED POSTS
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 10
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 9
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 8
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 7
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 6
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 5
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 4
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 3
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 2
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 1
Tags: featured, Hong Jong-hyun, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
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251 youcallitwinter
September 29, 2016 at 10:10 AM
This show honestly deserves a standing ovation and all the praise for its female characters. I can't remember the last drama I watched where not only were there so many female characters, but they were all relevant, and all well-developed. For a show marketed so heavily as a flower-boy garden, and all the fears of it being nothing more than an exercise in fan-service, it has proved much, much beyond that. It's confidence in not prioritizing their male cast over the story just continues to astound me. I absolutely LOVE that they take the time out to build female relationships and friendships and dynamics, to the extend that we're even more emotionally affected by them than we are by the princes and their relationships sometimes. Two of the most beautiful scenes like date, with Su putting make up on Lady Hae, and in the cave with Court Lady Oh, just involve women and their individual relationships with each other.
What's even more heartbreaking is that Lady Hae and Court Lady Oh had almost the same kind of advice for Su, and they both told her to live on and be careful, but also to not have the kind of regrets that they did. I think what's absolutely amazing about this show is that while we're fixated- and for good reason- on the idea of Su as a 21st century woman, this drama has explored how the women of the time are not "backward", as we tend to think. They too are women who love fiercely, stand up for what they want, fight to protect what they want to protect. I think both Lady Hae (as in the flashback to her youth) and Court Lady Oh saw themselves in Su, which is a wonderful comment on how immaterial that 1000 years of distance is. These women, when younger, were as starry-eyed, as idealistic, as fearless, as Su is. And they lost that through years of palace life and experience, the kind that Su is going through right now; the constant betrayal of that love and those ideals.
It's actually amazing how the women in this drama are the most ambitious, and the real king-makers. They've all been shown to be active (in contrast to how often even the best of men are passive in the drama because of their duties and obligations), they fight for whatever they want; be it Queen Yoo, Yeon Hwa, Court Lady Oh, or Su, and they keep fighting. Maybe it's because they're so powerless in the way the system is structured, that they wage their fights from within the system and use the male figureheads. But in this episode (as it so often is), the real players were Court Lady Oh, Su, Yeonhwa and Queen Yoo, they were the catalyst for all the action. Even Chaeryung was bold enough to go and ask someone who she thought would help for help, while the princes were constantly held back, either of their own accord or by someone else.
This episode was beyond amazing, there are no words. I got chills in the cave scene when- as Heads noted- Su's voice grew distant and you could see her compartmentalizing right before her breakdown. IU was stunning.
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Maui
September 29, 2016 at 10:44 AM
Just wanted to say Zoe, great analysis. You are so right about why the women in this are well developed. Thank you for sharing this, and to all you beanies out there thank you for sharing all your thoughts. I might be on page 6 of this but I read your comments and they help meunderstand and enjoy this much more. You are a great community......hip,hip hooray!
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Seltzerwater
September 29, 2016 at 11:04 AM
Hear hear! I got into this drama thinking that it was all going to be flower boy eye candy and instead got a interesting thesis about feminism 1000 years ago.
I love that you drew that women struggle with the same things 1000 years ago that they do today. Patriarchy is a bitch.
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youcallitwinter
September 29, 2016 at 11:29 AM
Same! I didn't even realize they were going to have so many female characters who would be so important to the story because they weren't the ones who were marketed, and ended up stealing the show. Both Lady Hae and Court Lady Oh were inspired castings, to be deeply mourned for, even in the short while that we knew them.
But yes, it's absolutely amazing how we all expected that Su would be completely different as someone from the 21st century (and that's been one of the complaints, that she doesn't behave like a century girl), but this drama has done the opposite, it has shown us how any of these women could easily be of the 21st century themselves because their independent thinking isn't curtailed by their limiting palace life and experiences. They're no weaker for having been born at a time when all routes to hard power or open agency were closed to them-- instead, they're probably all the stronger for it, because they have to fight so hard to get anything that they want. I honestly loved that Lady Hae and Court Lady Oh saw themselves in Hae Su, because it shows that it's only their circumstances which don't allow for modernity, not their thinking.
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youcallitwinter
September 29, 2016 at 11:18 AM
Thank you! I think this episode really drove that point home; the only people in the know about what was happening and the only one with opinions on what was happening, which they tried to translate into action, were the women. Chaeryung protested, Su protested, and the ultimate sacrifice was Lady Oh's. They didn't only talk about how unjust the system was, they actually tried to stand up to it in their own ways, while the princes and the king just supported- or did not support, as the case may be, their actions.
But yes, how wonderful to have such an engaged community with this drama, it just elevates the drama experience by so much!
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Seltzerwater
September 29, 2016 at 11:35 AM
I would even go as far as to say the only person almost as strong as a woman was Wang So. He had the ovaries to do what was needed to save Hae Su. When he ran to get her before the execution, it was perfectly timed. If JiMong had been a few minutes later, then Hae Su would have been dead as a doornail in a mistimed hanging.
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youcallitwinter
September 29, 2016 at 11:46 AM
I actually completely agree with that, and I was just thinking of it. Maybe because Wang So in a way is just as much a systemic outcast and powerless- despite his position- as the women are, and thus he's the one who notices injustices more, and fights them more, instead of taking them as something that is inevitable in palace life-- which makes it even more interesting that he's the destined king.
Barbrey
September 29, 2016 at 5:55 PM
'Had the ovaries'. Great expression.
wheatmill
September 30, 2016 at 8:28 PM
@seltzerwater
Are you biology student? "ovaries!!"
bips99
September 30, 2016 at 11:53 PM
I wrote something like this too. Abridged version though :)
I don't mind that the show kills the female characters as long as it develops their arc properly. And it is doing that. Fantastically.
Most men in this show do nothing even the useless king who always seems helpless. But the ones that succeed are the women. They know how to get things done and they are not afraid to sacrifice themselves when the men sit around wringing their hands
In all fairness WS does try with all his might. i think its because he is essentially a warrior. Put him in a battlefield and he would cut down an army but politics is something he is just discovering.
He was still shocked to be spurned and sent back by CP and king. He was still incredulous that the king would knowingly hang an innocent. Despite all his "brutality" he seems righteous in a way. He seems to believe in justice, in family , in love and doing the right thing and is always shocked that it is not the case even for the nicest of his brothers.
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Barbrey
September 29, 2016 at 6:27 PM
That was a great analysis! I mentioned last page how unusual it is too for a female heroine to have not one but two mentor figures on her journey.
I was trying to remember if I had ever seen it before in kdrama, and then realized I had, in a much vaguer way, in...Boys Over Flowers! The hero's sister and the second lead's lover.
There's even a similar plot trajectory - girl out of water in a rich school, a number of powerful boys she befriends, first love is with the second lead, first female mentor is his lover, male lead is a psychopath with a hateful mother, he tries to strong arm heroine into loving him, she helps him grow up and eventually realizes she loves him, second mentor is his sister, and now comes the fight against mom and for power
I'm sure the last thing any of want is to compare the much more sophisticated ML to BOF, but they do share certain similarities.LOL!
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Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 10:59 PM
Was Jun Pyo's sister a mentor to Jan Di? I don't remember how.
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 3:36 PM
She was but it's played up or down depending on the version. Very much so in Hana Yori. In the Korean version, Jan Di is identified by the boys as being much like the sister. There's a definite sense that all three women share a similar courage and spirit. This is even extended to the fourth woman that he gets engaged to, the 'cool girl'.
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Lin_K
October 2, 2016 at 11:33 PM
I haven't watched Hana Yori Dango and don't remember much of Jun Pyo's sister from BOF. I did love his fiancee though. She was a good friend to both him and Jan Di :) And I have liked Lee Min Jung ever since!
junah
October 1, 2016 at 8:17 AM
100% person correct. I also wrote this in previous comment. I have not seen the strongest female character since Makino tsukushi in hana yori dango manga (or BOF in korean version) until know. This is exactly what interest me the most to continue watch this series.
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youcallitwinter
October 2, 2016 at 2:36 PM
I would have totally never thought of Boys Over Flowers, but that indeed did have some really interesting female mentor figures!! It's one of the only dramas in fact, to fully characterize the female second lead beyond a stereotypical role that just serves to extend the course of the lead romance. Boys Over Flowers, as much as its made fun of for being shallow, would make for some interesting analyses now.
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pickledplumtree
September 29, 2016 at 8:47 PM
Yes, everything you said is so true and insightful.
I also thought this drama would be 100% reverse harem nonsense, especially after seeing the Cosmopolitan photo shoot.
Boy, did it ever turn out to be ohhhh-so-much-more and absolutely magnificent!
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Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 11:18 PM
Even though I'm happy with Su's character, I wish they would have used more of her time-travelling experience in the story. It's good that they used her modern makeup skills. But they also could have had someone (other than Ji Mong) realize that she is a person from another era. Just for some funny moments or conflicts.
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 3:41 PM
I agree. With half the show still to go, I'm holding out hope we'll get a few more. Certainly her experience as a slave will likely lead directly to Wang So' slave emancipation (a reform way before its time) but that's not likely to be funny.
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Lin_K
October 2, 2016 at 11:36 PM
Yes, Su's life and experiences will play a big role in So's reforms. He is already seeing how the clans control the king.
I saw some scenes from the next episode in Soompi and I hoenstly don't know where it's going as far as the romance is concerned.
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purpleowl
October 3, 2016 at 9:01 AM
You all just convinced me to make time for this drama. I dropped it after the horse slaying and teletubbie princes. But the fact that it has this analyzing potential is compelling.
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252 Mosj
September 29, 2016 at 11:53 AM
I just loved this ep!!! For me, this ep was the turning point in which Hae Soo will finally understand that Wook's love for her is not as much as he's said in the past, and that Wang So will literally risk his life in order for her to live. That, to me, is real love. I'm just super glad that Hae Soo now knows and by the preview of ep 12 and so on I know that she will starting to totally fall for the 4th prince! Even by the scene they had together in the prison, she said; "If you continue to do this, it will be harder for me to run away from you", which totally indicates her feelings for him and that they're beginning to grow. Omg, I'm just super happy. I can't say I like it that Wook is turning evil, but I just love that Hae Soo can finally understand that not ALL people are what they seem to be like and you can't assume someone is trustworthy because of your "blind affection". CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT WEEK! I already miss my handsome 4th Prince.
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253 alphazentaurus
September 29, 2016 at 1:02 PM
Congratulations to Soo. She really has a awful taste in men. Her boyfriend cheated on her, nevertheless the falls for the first douchebag she's meeting in Goryeo. As for me, I couldn't understand her infatuation right from the beginning. Something felt fishy about Wook. He showered her with coutesy and sweet words, but all of that seemed so hollow. That's because his inactivity told another story. Always hesitating he couldn't make a simple effort to push the relationship forward. To put it in simple words- he is a Show-off.
I've read many comments, saying that he had to much to loose, so that his choice to abandon Soo is rightful. Family is more important than a little powerless girl, sure. But this is not a matter of simply breaking up with Soo, she's about to getting executed. It was shocking to see that he abandoned her completely in this situation. That was a fabulous display of his poor charakter. Hopefully Soo will now sense the meaning.
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254 Cocobeans
September 29, 2016 at 1:26 PM
i wish the king WOULD send So back to the Shinjou clan, because that would be the dealiest misstake he has ever mad (apart from marrying that Goryo equivalent of a Borgia Queen)
They are a strong and powerfull clan (politically) that was the reason So was sent to them, to appease them
The general however told So that if he returned he would have no trouble "putting them down and owning and leading that entire clan"
So yeah, send him back, let him take So, make him happy with a wife who can give him strong offspring while the rest of his brothers (and sisters) kill eachoter, then swoop in with his clan army and just take over.
Then give the head of mommy dearest to my wife as an anniversary present.
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Cocobeans
September 29, 2016 at 1:28 PM
darn typos
*deadliest and made
Downside of trying to type a wall of text with two fat cats sitting on your keyboard trying to score some snacks and playtime
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Maui
September 29, 2016 at 7:10 PM
Cocobeans all I have to say...is bravo.....send him back to his clan indeed....
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bips99
September 30, 2016 at 11:59 PM
I keep imagining 2 fat tubbies sitting like sentries on either end of your keyboard inspecting all your work .. *snort*
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255 selene
September 29, 2016 at 3:54 PM
I re-watched this episode again and again, because I always felt something off. I got the reason why people sympathize with Wook with all of this family over love, blood thicker than water thing, but something kept bothering me. And today I know why.
Here it is. I can totally understand that Wook couldn’t turn his sister in because of his love for his family. He had to conceal his sister’s crime, even if he hated to do so. I’m totally fine with this.
Wook had basically took his family over Soo by killing the only evidence of his sister’s crime: that scheming court lady. By doing so he destroyed the only chance for Soo to be freed. That was his ultimate family over love act.
Now that his family wasn’t at stake anymore, nobody even suspected Yeonhwa, one should think that by all means, Wook should have no problem fighting for Soo. He should at least TRY to get Soo out of prison like how he had promised her. Given that he was the one who dismissed Soo’s only ticket to freedom (the scheming court lady), he should have even tried harder out of guilt. One way he could at least try was begging the king like what So did (and even Jung suggested). Yes, it would likely be fruitless but it was worth trying to save someone he (said he) loved, wasn’t it? But apparently Wook wouldn’t even freaking give it a try. Wonder why??
First, I gotta admit part of it was because the passivity in his personality trait that we’ve known for a long time. He was always like “there is no way to prove Soo’s innocence” and only acted upon So’s request.
BUT the second reason, and the most important one, was the awakening of his desire for the throne thanks to Yeonhwa. Yeonhwa didn’t plan the seed, it was alrdy there in him, dormant but now ready to grow. This explained why he would never dare to beg the king himself even when Jung (and Lady Oh) suggested it. He had to keep his record clean. He had to ask help from someone else eg. Lady Oh so that he himself remained perfect and untainted before the king.
Lady Oh’s words seemed to take effect on him tho as he ran for Soo’s kneeling rescue but unfortunately his desire for the throne got amplified further by the sight of his mother prostrating to Queen Yoo. From that moment, poor Soo had no place in his heart anymore. This explains why he turned his back on Soo, and why he didn’t even join the princes kneeling in the rain. His desire for the throne was so strong he couldn’t allow any flaws; he shouldn’t have any association with lowly people like Soo; he wouldn’t even go against the king’s will to abandon Soo --> this will later serve as his breakup line with Soo.
And on the preview, when he confronts So over his marriage plan, he refers to Soo as “a maid”. That’s exactly what she is to him now that he gets his eyes set on the throne. Soo was simply “a maid” who will just deter him “the prince” from getting the throne and he has to, taking King Taejo’s words: “Throw things away when you can.”
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selene
September 29, 2016 at 3:59 PM
(continued)
See what my point is? The only "family over love" was him killing that scheming court lady. The rest was simply "throne over love" all the way. By saying all of his deeds was based on "family over love" is sugarcoating. And btw, Soo was his family too. Does Lady Hae’s wish for him to take care of Soo mean nothing at all now? I suppose so.
Kudos to Lady Oh who saw through him. Her every single word to him rang the truth: “The reason men in the royal family become cowards is always the same (throne). Someday you will come to regret how cowardly you were today.”
Wook has become COWARD for his desire for the throne, period. I can’t sympathize with him no matter how hard I try.
And I won’t even bring So into discussion because Wook himself is plain bad, with or without So to compare with. Comparing him to So will just start all the ridiculous “Wook has so much more to lose, So doesn’t have anything to lose” stuff which is totally irrelevant.
Just accept that Wook is simply C-BBJX 8th prince all along: "throne over love"
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evy
September 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM
That's so true. What holds Wook back is his hidden ambition for the throne, not the so-called hard situations. Thats why he comes out as passive and has no guts at all, to show the King that he is clean and flawless. But what I want to highlight is the underlying reason. I'm quite sure that 1 of the reasons Wook sets his eyes on the throne is the degradation of his mother continued with his entire family was thrown out of palace. It is the same with Yeonhwa. So their ambitions stemmed from injustice, mistreatment, and desire to protect the family, plus power and revenge of course. While WS, his ambition is solely stemmed from the desire to protect HS. This different foundation gives birth to different set of actions. WS gave his all even sacrificing himself for HS, cos thats the end goal anyway. Wook and YeonHwa, in their final decisions, always trying to take advantage for themselves and if necessary, sacrificing others cos others are just pawns. Some pawns are harder to sacrifice, like HS, but Wook did it anyway. Their actions in its core, are not that different from Queen SMS and Wang Yo. Its just the Queen is more ruthless. But I am sure Wook and his sister will get to the Queen's level of ruthlessness. So I think all in all, the difference is in the desire for power. When one of the underlying reasons is wielding power to force upon others and to enact revenge, then they will sacrifice everything just to gain advantage for self.
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selene
September 30, 2016 at 8:50 AM
Great one. I agree that the difference of underlying reasons will determine the way they take to achieve their goals. The final goal is always the throne, but Wook and So will have different ways to achieve that.
That seed of ambition for the throne has long been planted even since they got exiled; only that it grows faster in Yeonhwa, but now Wook's one is ready to grow too. I look forward to see what this duo ruthless siblings will do to get their goal.
As for So, I think he will eventually fight for the throne because he needs power to protect Soo (and maybe Baekah). For now he is still a reckless brat who thinks that he can do what he wants to do, like a prince marrying a maid. Soon he will realize he needs more power, not just physical, but political to protect people he loves.
Glad to meet someone who can see pass that "family over love" excuse for Wook's cowardliness. The upcoming episodes will reveal his true self even more though. I really can't wait.
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bips99
October 1, 2016 at 12:15 AM
well said selene .. i never bought the family excuse. But i think in wooks mind that is how he is going to justify himself. thats why he said to YH that you are in my debt.
He says to her do as you wish with me. He wants her to make him king so later on he can say - i didn't want it. you forced it down my throat
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selene
October 1, 2016 at 7:39 AM
Yes, the way he simply submitted to her sister's will was meh.. He didn't even refuse when his sister said she would grant him the throne. He gave her full permission to do whatever she wanted even though he should have known how monstrous his sister could be then.
Even if he got the throne, he would just be his sister's puppet. Yeonhwa would be the "goddess over the king" just like how she wished for.
Yeonhwa is so clever, even though she's so evil I can't help but admiring her.
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256 Natalie
September 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM
Fabulous episode! I'm waiting next week to see more development in So-Soo relationships♡♡♡ I want them to be together so badly that I even wish Lee Joon Gi & IU go on dating haha^^
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257 Panache
September 29, 2016 at 7:39 PM
Beginning of episode 11 was heartbreaking when So drank the poison and left his family to follow Soo. He knew he was dying and sacrificed himself for Soo because he loved her and didn't want her executed. He was stumbling after her, reaching, and just silently begging her to look back at him. He probably wanted her to acknowledge him and just to catch a glimpse of her face one last time! LJK's acting is phenomenal here. Love him so much. He's more than just a very pretty face.
I really wish the international version did not cut out scenes, especially of our OTP, because we missed the more intimate interaction and dialogue between them. They still seem so distant. Showing these scenes would have made more sense of why So likes Soo so much already. Watch on YouTube.
So many comments here. We all love this show! Reminds me of Faith were it was awkward and had a lot of flaws I still loved it! Lol!
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258 tumisk
September 29, 2016 at 8:33 PM
Ultimately, this episode answered my question so far, how could Hae Soo finally fall in love with a prince So but so far we know that Hae Soo very close to the prince Wook more which made approaching intensively with a more subtle way.
.... Actually, a woman would prefer a partner who could at least make the ultimate sacrifice for love ..... hahaha love oh love ....
I had read a description of the original book and see its Chinese version of the series, and feel a little bit sad with the story when almost at the threshold although in the end will give a little something to make the audience relieved. I hope in this Korean version has a more beautiful ending.
Lee Joon Gi is a real great actor, no doubt in his acting always be total. His nickname the "flower boys" would be getting disappeared along with the increasingly exposing its role as a real man, masculine side, especially in this drama series. More age made him more mature ..... and more sexy!
I believe, a man getting more sexy and hot when he's in 40's .... hahahaha
I love you Lee Joon Gi
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259 pickledplumtree
September 29, 2016 at 8:41 PM
Whoa, 1099 comments. I'm back to teaching and I'm so far behind, even when it's just two days!
I am still in love with this show, but I must say...
I agree that the transition of hero/fella in her heart was perfectly executed, but the rest of the logic didn't add up for me. I thought of a million ways they could have fixed the situation without Lady Oh dying.
~Blame it on the fainting tea girl who disappeared!
~Say the Crown Prince gave her the bracelet for giving him the best herbal lotions or massages, whatever.
~Make up a million other stories or scapegoats. Why couldn't they make up something simple? If they're the royals and the issue is all within the royal family, they could indict or pardon whoever they want however they want. The whole Hae Soo or the Crown Prince thing was completely preposterous to me.
And why is atopic eczema a deal-breaking weakness for a Crown Prince?!...that's like, nbd.
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Natalie
September 29, 2016 at 11:19 PM
I think Queen SMS and her allies would not accept any other excuses or scapegoats, but as for Lady Oh, the Evil Queen was deeply satisfied because she hated her and wished to get rid of her. And, those scenes were all beauty and heartbreaking- that's what drama is for! :)
I understand that CP's eczema is not a big deal today, but back in time it seems they thought it to be something like heaven's curse and would claim that CP is not worth getting the throne
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LYF
October 1, 2016 at 4:23 AM
Say the Crown Prince gave her the bracelet for giving him the best herbal lotions or massages, whatever. --> This would still raise suspicion though. On one hand Hae-soo cannot divulge his eczema, on the other people would still want to interrogate her WHY the Crown Prince got such special treatment from her. And if people assume that they've got something on between them that's more than a regular prince-court lady relationship, I doubt Hae-soo would be in a safer position.
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260 vip
September 29, 2016 at 10:45 PM
Is anyone realize both So & Soo have a mole in their chick.
In the same place, it was like they're looking at their reflection in the mirror. LoL
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Sris
September 30, 2016 at 7:13 AM
At last someone else noticed too. I have noticed it and found it quite amusing
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tumisk
September 30, 2016 at 10:06 AM
yes u're right, i found it. LJG has on the right side and IU has on the left side .... lol ...
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Lynn
September 30, 2016 at 1:14 PM
Actually, there's a mole in one of LJK ears as well ??.
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261 Johan
September 30, 2016 at 12:31 AM
Hahahaha..this is funny!
what am i doing?
I actually re watch the episode to look for the mole on their faces.?
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Johan
September 30, 2016 at 12:34 AM
and yes, you're right!!
since i was looking at them closely..
I can't help not to admire LJk.
He is so handsome, you cannot help not to be drawn to him.?
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sam
September 30, 2016 at 9:42 AM
off to rewatch the e to hunt that moles...lmao??
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262 Duk Seon
September 30, 2016 at 4:07 AM
I heard Scarlet heart has reached 1 billion views in Youku (?). Does that mean it's really popular in China? Or is it pretty common to reach 1 billion views?
I really like this drama and hope it continues to be popular abroad! i hope it gets really popular that they hold overseas fan meets! And so popular that the Korean viewers will regret they did not give the show more love that it deserves.
\^o^/
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alln
September 30, 2016 at 8:15 AM
Actually the last time I saw on IG, it was like 1.3 billion alrd. I think 1 billion is quite a big deal, it made news and LJG posted on IG about it.
Plus it is the most watched Korean drama in Singapore and Malaysia.
Internationally this drama is a bomb!! But not domestically.
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GG
September 30, 2016 at 9:05 AM
And Lee Joon Gi ranks 1st as the Most Popular Korean Actor/Star in China! I'm so happy for him :D
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Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 11:02 PM
Scarlet Heart is very popular internationally, especially in China but not in Korea unfortunately.
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LYF
October 1, 2016 at 4:26 AM
If it's of any comfort, the trailer for Ep 12 on Naver reached 1 million views within 2 days.
The ratings may be poor but I truly believe it's an exaggeration to call it an outright flop in Korea.
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263 Torri
September 30, 2016 at 4:11 AM
ehhhh. how is it that when he left the pavillion she had already walked back to the kitchen, brought the new pot of tea, and walked out of the pavillion ahead of him?! the timing seems a bit off, she should still be walking away with the empty pot when he bumped into her.
also it makes no sense that he would drink the tea & not think of stopping her from getting a refill.... even if yeonhwa didn't drink it the crown prince would still have drunk it---
producerrrs can we please have more logic and not throw in things for the sake of drama and disaster? >_<
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misa1991
October 2, 2016 at 4:58 AM
You wrote the same comment on YT video, right? XD
I'll reply to you again here, in case you don't read my comment on YT.
If you watch carefully, Soo left the pavilion with empty tray and here she was still holding that empty tray so it was likely she was walking back to the kitchen when So found her. So left a moment after she left though, so it makes sense that she was still not far away from him.
As for how Yeonhwa still had tea to drink, I assume since Soo said the water had run low, it meant there was still some tea left, enough for another cup for Yeonhwa to drink.
If So stopped her from getting refill in front of everyone, it would raise suspicion. Who knows, maybe he was trying to stop her from getting refill when he followed her and tried to reach her.
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264 maui
September 30, 2016 at 5:14 AM
Well here's another small observation but for some reason it has me wondering....When Soo is about to be hanged there are two nooses, and they are pink? I even went back and did some research on the meaning of nooses and knots. In ancient Buddhism the noose on certain gods represented a way to catch lost souls....the color red was auspicious, but why pink? Pink for girls blue for boys...:) I wonder if they intended any meaning in two....
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Ceitidh
September 30, 2016 at 7:59 AM
it was probably faded red. I doubt they cared about changing the noose to a brand new one just for a palace servant.
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265 Ethereal
September 30, 2016 at 9:15 AM
This episode was so intense. I was wondering when Hae-soo would break away from Wook or if she ever would, but now we should be able to see more So and Su moments. :)
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266 j9
September 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
Just had a thought on giving the benefit of the doubt to Wook when he started walking in the rain towards Su and he stopped and turned around:
Could it be that he saw So approaching her and was almost pretty much there which made Wook turn around? I mean there wasn't much time between Wook turning around and So shielding her, he had to have seen So approaching.
I'm just trying to give Wook the benefit of doubt IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE. I am in no way a Su - Wook shipper. And I still think he's a coward just as Lady Oh told him. I understand the terrible predicament his sister put him in, but he still could have at least tried to protect both his family AND Su just as So attempted to do.
Kim Ha Neul, you're still a cutie petutie. Right now I'm re-watching Running Man with LJG, KHN, and JH in it. KHN is adorable. Loving LJG, and JH seems a little shy.
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dui
September 30, 2016 at 10:51 AM
Given the way Wook reacted on his last encounters with So (horse riding scene and when So stumbled on him on his way to prison), I'd say it's very unlikely he would turn around on the sighting of So approaching. He had always been rival with So, there was no way he would lose to him.
The reason he turned around was because he realized being with Soo would only cause him disadvantage now that he had his eyes set on the throne. Soo was obviously the last person the King wanted to see now, and if you wanted to get the throne you gotta keep your image clean before the King. Throne over love, that's all.
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267 Dodgers
September 30, 2016 at 11:41 AM
Is it Monday yet?!?! This is torture...
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268 harmonyfb
September 30, 2016 at 1:39 PM
I am dying for the next episode.
I wonder: does Korea have a special word for the angst of not being able to binge-watch a show that's still on the air?
English doesn't. And it really needs one.
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269 pineapplegongzhu
September 30, 2016 at 2:29 PM
@Barbrey Not sure if you'll see this, but thought it would be worth a go....
Given the mythological underpinnings to ML:SHR, what do you think of Yeon Hwa's role? I'm assuming she's not from the same Hae Ha Jin family as our Hae Su.
Therefore, Yeon Hwa's marriage to Wang So could not fulfill the mandate of heaven for Goryeo. If anything, it would unravel it, would it not?
Hmmm......I feel there are a lot of loose ends that needs tying. The show seems to be heading towards Wang So and Hae Su marrying. Perhaps it is only when things go awry and desperate that Wang So will (think to) have no other choice but to marry Yeon Hwa. But, it backfires on him, sending them to a tragic end, where he will reincarnate for about 1000 years until he can meet up with Go Ha Jin in modern day Korea? Maybe?
I don't know, what are your thoughts on how this will unravel? My guess is that Wang So and Hae Su must have their 'golden moment' in this show since they are the OTP, but I dread to think what has to transpire for Wang So to betray his love for Hae Su and marry Yeon Hwa.
I think the c-version has the heroine miscarry their child, and from the previous episodes, that is what has happened to Lady Hae and Lady Oh. But, then, if Wang So fails to fulfill the mandate of heaven like his father, why would his reign last so long? Because he chose to become Gwangjong, and be brutal? Hmm..... most curious.
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Seltzerwater
September 30, 2016 at 5:15 PM
@Pineapplegongzhu
Maybe Gwangjong's brutual but peaceful reign means a break from Heaven's mandate. The reign of Gwangjong becomes people focused instead of relying on direction from a higher power. Think about the reforms that Gwangjong makes. He instills civil service exams, which are merit based, not mandate based. He allows people to take control of their destiny instead of cloaking it in a language of divinity. And maybe Hae Su's (death? maybe?) represents when Wang So turned his back on a higher power for taking away his only love? That's my dramatic reading.
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Barbrey
September 30, 2016 at 6:29 PM
I like it! Very possible.
It very much depends on how long Su remains in Goryeo. Historically she"d have to remain a long time because I dont think So goes into tyrant mode for ten or more years into his reign.
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Barbrey
September 30, 2016 at 6:59 PM
Oh, except I think the royal family represent the higher, heavenly power - sun/sky - but only one can receive the mandate of heaven in spiritual alliance with the people/land - water/earth. That lies at the center of the myth - the spiritual marriage of heaven and earth, represented by the sun god and river daughter, in order to create a nation.
Gwangjong remains a peaceful, reforming king for years. A big reason for his brutality later was the nobles rebelling against the reforms he is known for originating - slave emancipation and class-less civil service exams. I think in the early years he was definitely in a "marriage" to the land and people (symbolized by his relationship to Su) and I don't know if that changes when he begins turning on the nobles trying to attack his reforms. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of nobles die but think how many slaves he had freed were at risk.
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Sparkle
September 30, 2016 at 7:24 PM
I'd like to let you know that I am one of those who's been following your insightful posts. I feel grateful.
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 1:50 AM
I'm grateful I haven't bored you!
Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 11:14 PM
It's a possible scenario.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 3:07 AM
Really interesting theory, Seltzerwater!!
Thanks for sharing it! Definitely food for thought!
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Barbrey
September 30, 2016 at 5:38 PM
Good question! I think the Taejo-Lady Oh combo was still successful - he almost seemed to have trapped her in the Damiwon, baths, court - because of her love for him. And he quite obviously still had deep feelings for her. But not, obviously, deep enough. Because he kills her.
So parallel their love with the progress of the dynasty. In the beginning when allied to the Oh clan dynasty, in mutual love with his water maiden, he has great fortune and great ability.
Then he marries Queen Yoo, who appears to have appropriated the water maid's blessing with her perfumed baths. But it's not "true love" and the kingdom starts to show the lines of division that will afterwards prove its downfall perhaps beginning with So's scarring, and not too long afterwards, Lady Oh's miscarriage. Queen Yoo is the "something rotten in Denmark".
But Lady Oh is still there, subconsciously working her water magic in support of the King, which in outward expression is her true blue love for him, support for Mu, ability to diminish some of Queen Yoo's worst excesses. I'd have to go back and check, but was it for the rain ceremony she was doing the king's hair when Yoo took over? Because he can't do it - bring the rain - and there might be some symbolic connection here to his failure. Whatever the case, he can't bring rain - he no longer has the "surfeit of water" he needs. So you start to see a disintegration of his power with the waning of his loyalty to Oh.
There were two major love betrayals last episode. Wook's for Su, obviously, but also the King's for Lady Oh. Can you imagine if this were Su and So, with Su begging So to execute her instead of her child? So would have found a way around it, remained true to her, as we saw him do in the tea poisoning scene. The king chooses to turn his back on Lady Oh, on their love and loyalty of years, and thus loses the water maid's blessing. It shouldn't perhaps surprise us that the king is going to banish Su. He's doing to her what Yoo (and he himself) did to So when they banished him from the palace. He won't want to be reminded of his betrayal of Lady Oh when he looks at Su.
But with his betrayal of Oh, the water maid's blessing for the kingdom evaporates, and the founding is in jeopardy.
Queen Yoo (despite her baths), and Yeon Hwa are cut from a different cloth. Both say they want to "shine" above others. This is sun god (Hae Mo Su) symbolism. No water to be found in either woman, no connection to the earth, the commoners, the land and rivers of Goryeo. Even if we take this to the secondary symbolism of sun and moon (moon is usually a tripartite symbol of moon-water-woman), these are women who want to shine as sun-sky-men, but with no leavening effects like water symbolizes and is crucial for a successful nation. Yeon Hwa doesn't even want to be a queen in partnership anymore - she wants to be like a "goddess above the king". The sun. (I have a sneaking admiration for...
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Maui
October 2, 2016 at 7:48 PM
Soo can't be a King's wife she has a scar......does that mean she can't marry So if he becomes King?
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270 Barbrey
September 30, 2016 at 6:14 PM
continued
her, don't you?).
Marriage to Yeon Hwa is not enough to thwart the water blessing, as we saw with Oh and the king. It's a spiritual/mythical marriage of love, fidelity, loyalty - enduring - that matters. I think that's what Su and So will have, but Yeon Hwa certainly has the potential to "scar" that union, and what she does now could cause divisions and trouble to the kingdom for the future.
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Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 11:13 PM
Woah, I like your thought process, Barbrey! Thank you for explaining all that! :)
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 1:49 AM
Thanks for reading, as always, Lin_K!
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pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM
Also, possibly, Wang So & Hae Su have their day in the sun (the beginning of his reign), and then rebellion/turmoil hit which forces him to marry Yeon Hwa, which may solve one problem, but bring up others?
I think several commentators have said before that Wang So and Yeon Hwa are very similar in ambition, drive, determination, etc. And like you said, they are both "sun" symbols. I like how you mention about Queen Yoo's appropriation of water with her baths, although it is contrived (the bath) rather than free-flowing (like a real source of water).
Yet, Yeon Hwa has no water imagery associated with her (although, this is off the top of my head). You don't see her in a bath. She doesn't go anywhere near water, generally, or does anything with water. Even when she drinks the poisoned tea, it is an act. She never actually tastes the tea.
I do so love this water symbolism that you've picked up! The fact that it didn't just start raining, it POURED when Wang So performed the ceremony after Hae Su covered his scar...the sheer abundance of the rain shows the fruitfulness of their semi-platonic union (at this point in the story, even if So is already smitten with her). What will it be like when they actually fall in love with one another?
*le sigh*
*giggle*
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 12:07 PM
Hot and wet.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 12:34 PM
Hahah...oh dear, have you see LJK's latest Instagram post? The very definition of hot and wet.
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Barbrey
October 2, 2016 at 5:14 AM
Is that the one where he's peeking out from under the covers?
pineapplegongzhu
October 2, 2016 at 5:55 AM
@Barbrey Indeed, it is! ☺️
Frankly, I blushed when I saw it.
7oho
October 2, 2016 at 2:35 AM
Wow! This is one of the best comments! Loved your analysis!
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271 Napkiin
September 30, 2016 at 6:25 PM
side note, wouldn't it be funny if LJG and IU got married down the road like their Chinese counterparts (Nicky Wu and Liu Shi Shi got married lawl). I know IU has a bf, but just sayin', who knows what will happen in 5 years right!
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Natalie
September 30, 2016 at 10:43 PM
Hahaha I thought about it:) they look good together so who knows?
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Napkiin
October 1, 2016 at 1:09 PM
Right?? ;) Saw their BTS and they're just so cute
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LYF
October 1, 2016 at 4:48 AM
I do find IU and Jang Ki-ha an adorable couple.... but not gonna lie, if IU and Lee Jun-ki happen for real, I will squeal for MONTHS
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Napkiin
October 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM
If IU an LJG gets married I'm going to make a post saying "Tong Hua the real matchmaker"
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Sica
October 1, 2016 at 11:16 AM
I also have thought about it hahaha LJG and IU look good together <3
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Lin_K
October 3, 2016 at 12:07 AM
I would so love that union!! They will have beautiful babies!
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272 Sparkle
September 30, 2016 at 6:35 PM
I think I drunk a Lee Joon Gi potion.
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Lin_K
September 30, 2016 at 11:26 PM
Lol, I think we all did, from the way we are swooning over him.
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Sparkle
October 1, 2016 at 4:20 PM
@Lin_K I think I have drunk more than 3 cup. I have been following him around from instagram to youtube. There is one that amazes from his interviews; he's been labelled and treated a Hallyu star from 2005 or 2006? Why I didn't know this?
He is my top Korean actor at the top. I love his passion for acting. Every character he played was well-thought. His interpretation of character is very detailed from the appearance, to body language to facial expressions. Though I have only watched up to the 3rd episode of Arang and the Magistrate. I have yet to watch from then onwards.
In Moon Lovers, he just made Wang So such an endearing character. He may appear cold & ruthless but he's actually warm and gentle in the inside.
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Sparkle
October 1, 2016 at 4:22 PM
*apology for the many typos
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Lin_K
October 3, 2016 at 12:21 AM
I discovered kdrama world and LJK in 2012. Arang was the first drama I watched of him, and I became a fan. He gives 100% to his characters. His acting here is phenomenal!
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273 Aye
September 30, 2016 at 7:45 PM
What a great episode. It was indeed heartbreaking. I felt the same sadness when Lady Myung Hee passed away. Two great ladies protecting Soo.
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274 Sea
September 30, 2016 at 10:53 PM
By the way the relationship between Su and Wook was presented, their separation had to be convincing, and this, well...it was predictable (the vile machinations of the evil sister), but it was believable. I liked that it was Lady Oh who saved Hae Su, and not Wook or So.
I think after all what's happened, Wook is just beginning to reach his boiling point, and eventually is going to explode, I don´t think he's gone to the dark side, at least not yet, but he will express a lot of anger, of course, anger can be destructive, when it doesn't find its appropriate outlet. I can't sentence him for what he did, he was forced to make a very difficult decision, some people despise him for this, but the truth is that whatever decision was taken, represented the death of someone he loves, there wasn't a right decision here. As some say, I don't think that his desire for the throne was the ultimate reason for this final decision. What I saw in him, was resignation and disillusion, because he can’t just cast his own family aside, besides, since ever, his family wants him to fight for the throne, so apparently he can't escape this fate.
Also, despite what his sister said, I honestly believe that, right now, he doesn't want to be king and prefers to live a quiet life Su, because as he said to his mother, he is really tired of the whole political thing. But this doesn't mean that, at some moments in the past, he wanted to be king, but above all to protect his family (that it have gone through difficult times), rather than lust for power, as some people say. Everyone in a situation like that (where you feel powerless and helpless) would like to have power to remedy and prevent it from happening again, is understandable, and that doesn't make them bad or greedy.
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Sea
September 30, 2016 at 10:57 PM
I think the issue with Wook it's that he has a fragile mind. He has many good sides, he's a good guy, gentle, patient, smart, can fight...has a beautiful handwriting, makes stop motion in notebooks...it looks like he has an artist soul hehe. But his mind wander amidst fears and the expectations about him, at such a level that has affected his mental health, not that he's crazy, but he's always concerned, actually, his deeply concerned about everything. He said it himself, he told Su once, he always pondered his actions based on the possible consequences and the impact (for his family and himself) that these actions would generate, and it seems that this was a torment for him. He cannot sleep either...he has had a lot of pressure, because all those family/political problems, and to maintain peace he keeps everything inside. All this, has conditioned his behavior, and has contributed to his passivity, because before any final decision or action, he thinks a thousand times. Well not everyone has a strong mind.
I can't see him like a despicable person, as some describe him. But it seems that, from the point of view of some people, he was doomed from the start, not only because he's the second lead, but by the fact that Su had feelings for him. The funny thing is, how this viewers interpret the story to make him look worse, for example, Until ep 10 Su wasn't in love with him, even if she wanted to marry him, it wasn't for love, but for other reasons. But after ep 11, I read comments like, he didn't help the woman “that loves him”, not the woman “he loves”; how could he do that to the woman who loves him?, she was betrayed by the man she is “deeply” in love. So now, she does love him, because if she really loves him, what he did is 100000 times worse….
Side note: sorry for my English
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 2:12 AM
I see the two kind of like an Ashley Wilkes and Rhett Butler.
I like Wook but he lacks So's passion. He's a little too late, a little less committed, a little less effective when he does act, a little less in love with Su than So. That's it. I really haven't seen a terrible side to him so far because his choices have been understandable if not always admirable in a romance genre context.
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pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 3:23 AM
@Barbrey LOVE Gone with the Wind references!!!! One of my all time favorite movies!
And yes! I would concur that the Ashley - Scarlet - Rhett comparison is apt.
I will first disclaim that i have nothing against Wook, and i don't feel the need to vilify him because I thin the story and his character have progressed coherently with his internal logic.
I don't doubt that Hae Su loved Wang Wook genuinely (like Scarlett loved Ashley for most of the movie). I don't doubt that Wang Wook "loved" Hae Su, but I wonder if it is not the kind of love you give to a mistress rather than a wife.
Husband/wife love must share burdens, must trust, must be completely honest, must weather things through together. And sometimes, it also means the problem is dealing with the spouse! And in a way, a pure true love in marriage, one doesn't think about the person as an asset or a liability because one has already committed oneself entirely to that person.
Man/mistress is a different dynamic. I don't wish to sound moralistic, but with a mistress, it's more about having the fun, joy, thrill of love without actually the COST of love. When I think about stereotypical affairs (as they are depicted), it's in a sense, a "holiday" for the adulterer from the weight and worries of his normal life to be able to enjoy the thrill (maybe even forbidden) of love without the obligations associated with marriage. In a way, a "mistress" is an asset without having any liabilities. But, if the liabilities show, that is when the mistress is dumped - because it was never her role to be a burden. Maybe I'm being too cynical here, and happy to be proven wrong. But, I bring this up because in the book (and slightly in the movie) Scarlet does realize when Melanie is dying that Ashley only ever lusted after her, he never wanted her as a wife (like he did Melanie).
By contrast, Rhett and Scarlett shared burdens, were brutally blunt with one another, bickered, but also held each other up. I actually really like the comparison, except I don't think Hae Su is quite as ruthless as Scarlett. :) But, I do so love Scarlett.
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 12:44 PM
Great comparison! I really like the wife/mistress comparison too - never thought of that.
Of course Scarlett herself is more like Yeon Hwa in personality than like Su. That ruthless, cruel, manipulative streak.
Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 2:17 PM
Now I think about it, Lady Hae is cut from the exact same cloth as Melanie Wilkes.
Seltzerwater
October 1, 2016 at 2:49 PM
@Pineapplegongzhu & @Barbarey
Wang So is a classic Byronic romantic hero made popular around the late 1800s. Rhett Butler can be typified as such as well as (surprisingly) Edward Cullen. It's been a classic romantic trope forever. But it remains classic because it's incredibly effective.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ByronicHero
It's the kind of character that's deeply attractive (probably to both sexes). It's not a classic hero, it's a hero who plays by his own rules.
pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 3:27 PM
@Barbrey & @Seltzerwater
Barbrey: Ah yes, Lady Hae is definitely a Melanie figure.
Seltzerwater: Thanks for the link, and Wang So definitely fits that description. I have always thought Wuthering Height's Heathcliff is a Byronic hero. I'm a little less convinced about Rhett Butler because he's really not that dark of a character. He's an opportunist, a bit of a rascal, cunning and clever as well as cheeky....but he doesn't have a sordid past, or some great pain/loss that makes him moody.
Count of Monte Cristo! Now there's a Byronic hero! :)
But, I'd take LJK's Wang So over all those guys any day....
Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 3:59 PM
@seltzerwater
Good observation. I'm a bit of a pro when it comes to Byron. Read all of his letters. Such a messed up person. Had an affair with his own sister. Incest was a big theme for him and I guess Wang So will fit in that regard too.
I think this speaks to my main complaint about Wang So - they've made him almost too much a Byronic stereotype, and it's his quiet moments with Su as friends that I prefer.
Maui
October 2, 2016 at 4:48 PM
PineappleGongzhu I like your comparison of the differences in expectations between marriage and a mistress because I think this is the choice that Hae Soo and Soo must now face. Yes, there is a written history that indicates that the 4th King will marry a future Queen and produce heirs, but the likelyhood of Hae Soo becoming that Queen would have to change the written history. So far, one Prince asked her to be his wife and a second is about to do the same. I wish for So's proposal to Hae Su to be his wife to not just be full of romantic moments but will it have the substance to back up the wish. In other words will So fall into the same trap Wook did proposing to So and then something happens to keep So from taking that step to become his wife. Leaving her in the role of mistress and a love that never fully matures into marriage love which is more self sacrificing. It would be such a shame with this couple who loves each other so much to fade into another version of Lady Oh and the King.
Lily
October 2, 2016 at 4:59 PM
The thing about Wook is he thinks too much, wants too much but never does anything. And no matter how you put it, Wook and Soo come to this point because he, just like his father, does not love the woman he claims to love enough. He proposed to her, and then let her die without trying anything himself. I wanted to understand his choice to put family before love, but in this case, he was the one destroying the evidence to save Soo, he chose to save the guilty one as well as himself and let the innocent Soo die in their place. If he loves her as much as he says and simply wants to protect his family, he would at least try something else to save her life. We all saw how shocked Soo was when he turned his back on her, I'm quite curios what she would say if she finds out his sister was behind all this and he did help push her to death. I find it quite ironic that Wook accepted to sacrify Soo as fast as So decided to die for Soo.
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275 pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 7:04 AM
@Zoe, @ Seltzerwater, @Barbrey, @pogo, @IvoryLight
I’m a strong So-Su shipper, but I’m curious: do you buy into how their friendship *started*? I really LOVE and WANT them to be together, but I can’t understand why Hae Su became friends with Wang So in the first place. If you are convinced, please argue me to your position!
The show wants to show a friendship to love arch, right? Cool, I like that. But, it does a better job of explaining Wang So’s movement from first meeting, to friendship to love, IMO. Yet, why would Hae Su would find Wang So as a friend? By the end of episode 4 (while watching the snow), I feel their conversation is definitely in the friend-zone, and it grows convincingly from there. But, why would Hae Su treat Wang So as a friend and confidante at the point? Is it really just because he saved her from a Yeon Hwa’s beating?
It just seems like the rest of his actions up to that point aren’t particularly endearing, nor solicits trust and comfortable conversation (you know, dumping her like a sack of rice by the road, threatening to kill her several times, going berserk at the prayer stones, etc).
What are your thoughts?
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swati
October 1, 2016 at 10:51 AM
There are a bunch of things that So does which leads to their friendship. He finds her interesting as she doesn't get scared of him or pity him due to his scar. She saw his scar n didn't run for the hills. Also though he seems like a tough guy he has helped her in bunch of scenarios... Like saving her from yeo hwa. Falling in river... Asks her to forget stuff she saw.
I think she sees him from 21st century view point n doesn't understand the whole he is violent n stay away from him concept.
Plus there friendship begins only after the whole marriage with king episode. That episode he tries to help her the best he can as he has lived a life he didn't want due to other people's choices n doesn't wish the same for anyone else. He is like the man of action n can't sit back n let things happen.
She gives him the benefit of doubt n believes that he isn't ruthless to kill people randomly...
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 12:54 PM
I think there were a few cut scenes that would have made it more believable, because I do see it as a mite too abrupt without those scenes. Once again poor editing choices. I read about the scenes that were cut here and on soompi. Baek Ah and So are the same - when did these two become such great friends? And there wasn't enough Baek Ah and Su scenes to make that friendship as solid as we're now to understand it is. Love this show, great thrills, packed episodes full of emotion, fun and drama, but logical progression isn't its strong suit despite that I believe the production was handed a stellar script.
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IvoryLight
October 2, 2016 at 8:40 AM
Ooh great question!
As Barbrey pointed out I think a lot of the finer points of how their friendship started died at the altar of the crazy editing decisions made for episodes 1 to 3. With that said I agree with Swati points that there are still enough incidences between them to at least lay the foundations for their friendship.
For me, I think the turning point came during the mountain conversation when Su decided to stay with him because he looked lonely. It was the first real conversation they had that didn't involve him outright threatening her or Su tearing up or yelling at him and I loved every bit of it. Every conversation they had after the right until the damn visions started have been absolute gold for the bestie building department.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that they keep that..with ahem...benefits of course. ;)
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youcallitwinter
October 2, 2016 at 2:33 PM
@PineappleGongzhu: I agree it's a little hard to digest with how fast the show's been moving (honestly it seems like this show has so many arcs that I find it impossible to figure out how they'll all be resolved.) But I thought their friendship started out as outsiders to the system. I think what really attracts Su to So in a friendly confidante way is that he's as much an alien as she is. Neither of them fully belong to this world; So, because he was abandoned so early, and Su, of course, because she is not of this world. I think that is partly why she understands him, because he, like her, has been trying to survive in a world that makes it difficult for him (and her) to. The rest of the princes are embroiled, more or less, in palace politics. Their greatest concern is favor with the king-- if not for the throne, then at least for recognition as a prince. But the greatest concern for Su and So is mainly to stay alive. I think that's where their understanding started, that they, even without realizing the full extent of it, see their reflection in the other. They understand that the other will do nearly anything to stay alive and they don't reject that as a mere brute instinct, but as a driving force for their actions.
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Maui
October 2, 2016 at 4:51 PM
Oh my goodness, must remember to re-read my comments before posting, the So, Soo, Hae Soo references where all written very confusingly, hopefully the message got thru...sorry about the typos...
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276 swati
October 1, 2016 at 9:55 AM
This drama is slowly turning amazing... At this point a bunch of guys seem capable of killing other brothers for throne... Yo and Wook are in lead. I gave up on the evil queen.. I think she is twisted.
Coming to this episode. I think Su had feelings for both guys. it's like So got under her skin n she can't ignore him. With Wook's lack of action n So being there for her I think the tide will change for her. She is aware he drank the poison for her. Also every moment he came. He freaking almost disobeyed a royal command to save her. Fought with soldiers... If that isn't pure n crazy love then don't kNow wat is. Go for him Su.
Wook made the easiest choice for him. I think he could hav done something. Anything for that matter. Just saying he is helpless doesn't cover. I mean was there really no other way to save her expect naming his sister??? So went to the king... Just making promises means nothing. I think he will regret this decision.
Lady Oh don't worry there is one man in royal household who won't turn coward for throne. U show them Wang So ... How it's done... I wish he gets the girl... The throne.. n an amazing happily ever after... U deserve it boy..
So has proved in this episode that he will go to any extent for those few he cares abt. Consequences be damned...
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 4:10 PM
I think he'll get the girl and the throne but it'll cost him. We've been given strong foreshadowing that he might eventually have to choose between throne and girl, perhaps much later after he has both, and he'll choose the throne having become overly invested. I'm hoping the show will surprise me because his actions these last few episodes - love before ambition - negate that foreshadowing, but only for now.
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evy
October 1, 2016 at 6:36 PM
I am kinda nervous to watch this because of the possible heartbreak when So might choose the throne over Su. I am 100% sure that So will try his best to get the throne to protect Baek Ah and Su, to give no one any power over him and Su. I am kinda sure that the marriage of So-Su as hinted in ep12 will not happen because it will be one of the catalysts for So's ambition for the throne. But sadly, I agree that maybe when it's time to choose between the two, So would be too invested already, he is in too deep to go out of his intended goal that he can't choose Su, in order to keep protecting Su. And that is where my heart will break. He started this get-the-throne journey to protect a girl, but in the end he has to hurt the girl to finish the journey. That's so poignant yet tragic
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Barbrey
October 1, 2016 at 8:58 PM
Yeah, I think there's a high probability of the scenario you propose playing out, just hoping with you that it doesn't.
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277 pineapplegongzhu
October 1, 2016 at 5:26 PM
ML:SHR & MBTI
I have no life outside of ML:SHR. I’m chomping at the bits waiting for Monday to arrive. I’m also rather bored even though I have a pile of work to do. So, I decided to attempt a Myers-Briggs Temperament Indicator for the characters I’m interested in from Ml:SHR. I’m probably wrong about some of them, so I welcome your thoughts on the matter. Oddly, Hae Su was the hardest to pin down. I’m not even sure I have her right at the moment:
MBTI
Wang So - INTP
Hae Su - ESFJ
Wang Wook - INFP
Yeon Hwa - INTJ
Wang Mu - ISTP
Baek Ah - ESFP
Jung - ESTP
Taejo - ENTJ
Queen Yoo - ENTP
Queen HwangBo - ISFJ
Lady Hae - INFJ
Lady Oh - ISFP
Park Soon Duk - ISTP
Woo-Hee ENFJ
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evy
October 1, 2016 at 7:04 PM
To PrincessPrineapple (I make my own assumption here that your Gongzhu means princess, correct me if I'm wrong):
I found @Barbrey interesting due to her comments and knowledge of Korean history and prediction of the story. I also enjoy your comments, but through this post, I found that you are so much more, you are Epic. ~twoThumbsUp~
I am quite busy so I still dont have the time to read and think about your result one by one, but for the accuracy of the results, if you have more free time, would you consider to crosscheck your result through other tests like Keirsey's personality test or William Moulton Marston's DiSC test?
Hahaha.. request from one crazy fan to another ;)
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pineapplegongzhu
October 2, 2016 at 3:18 AM
@evy
Evy, you presume correctly! It's a long story how I got my nickname, but it basically involved accidentally eating a pineapple that did not belong to me, and the consequential guilty driving me to excess extremes in order to restore to the real owner a pineapple.
Haha, I'm not sure so I'm "epic" so much as obsessed with both MBTI and ML: SHR!
The MBTI and Keirsey (as far as I am aware, are pretty much the same thing). In fact, I have the Keirsey book on my shelf. I don't know about the Moulton Marston DiSC test. But, happy to learn from you about it! Perhaps you could give your version of the Moulton Marston’s DiSC test for the characters? :) I would really be keen to read that!
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278 Kiio1
October 2, 2016 at 12:37 AM
What is going on with our poor Hae Soo tomorrow?
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Natalie
October 2, 2016 at 3:04 AM
She will continue marriage preparation courses: tea making completed, next is laundry ???
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Kiio1
October 2, 2016 at 6:54 PM
Hahaha.... next will be cooking... sewing........
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279 voice
October 2, 2016 at 3:17 AM
Guys there's a quiz on soompi that you can take to see which prince is your soulmate! I got Wang So \(^0^)/
http://www.soompi.com/2016/09/30/quiz-scarlet-heart-goryeo-prince-soulmate/
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280 hasna
October 2, 2016 at 4:14 AM
I understand wook has decided to protect his family and himself by giving up soo, but differences between him and so are great. So was willing to let his mother get caught as in when he told wook that his mother is the culprit and that wook needed to expose her. Wook was so ready to find evidence as long as its someone else's mother but the instant he finds that its his sister he has a complete change of heart. In contrast with wook I think So is a more righteous character
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281 Rachel
October 2, 2016 at 4:58 AM
Hi folks! Is anyone still lurking in this thread? Anyway, a little off topic here but I need emotional support, due to the emptiness in my heart caused by a lack of Lee Joon Gi, I decided to watch The King and The Clown, and that movie destroyed me. Now I'm just here, dying a little inside, full of feels, and still crying for Gong Gil. Now I basically can't reconcile all these different versions of him. OTL there goes my sanity! *melts into a puddle of feels*
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alln
October 2, 2016 at 5:18 AM
omg I thought I was the only one watching King and The Clown last night lol
At the beginning I was still couldn't take away LJK's Wang So image in my mind so I would pause whenever I see Gong Gil to compare this character to So.
But when things got serious, I was totally absorbed into Gong Gil, I didn't have LJG's So bothering me anymore. His acting is stellar, considering that was his debut movie. And at the end of the movie, I finally can appreciate that LJG as Gong Gil and LJG as Wang So are two completely distinct characters.
How he can present each character into the tiniest details is forever my subject of admiration. And we don't even see any trace of LJG in both roles, he simply disappeared.
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Rachel
October 2, 2016 at 8:43 AM
I'm like the complete opposite. I was so absorbed in the movie, and now I basically can't unsee Gong Gil when I look at Lee Joon Gi anymore. I'm pretty sure I'll get over this but the movie was so beautifully tragic.
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282 Maui
October 2, 2016 at 5:18 PM
This is my take on the friendship between Hae Soo and So. I think it started blossoming from the first time they met when Soo almost fell into the river and So's horse. First, he is surprised and looks happy to have this pretty girl sitting on his lap, but it's her standing up for herself, even holding on to the reins of his horse. From the moment they meet she is always speaking up for herself and defies his actions with her own logic. Instead of being afraid of him like the entire village treated him. She isn't focused on his scar, reputation or that patch but demanding he apologize for his actions, stop being so cruel etc... In fact, he constantly keeps asking "Aren't you afraid of me?" In one scene at the beach he tells her "You have always seen me for who I am, no need for excuses"...I think by episode three or four he had already started falling in love with her, and that's why he stops Yeonwha from beating her and declares her his. Her first encounter started the friendship like her second encounter with the 10th prince. Hae Soo isnt subtle she comes at him full force, even physically fighting 10th Prince.That fight starts the road to true friendship with 10th Prince by their second meet up. And it feels like circumstances and Hae So's responses did the same with 4th Prince.
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283 Maui
October 2, 2016 at 5:50 PM
Ok...small observation but when Princes marry they wear their hair up in a knot at the top of their hair. If they are single their hair is in a ponytail more or less or down. From the previews for next episode So is wearing his hair in a bun but not a knot at the top of his head even after the battle scenes. If So and Soo don't truly get married ever , it's going to break my heart.....if she ends up just as a Concubine ........I'm actually scared for So for what's coming next......
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284 hansa
October 2, 2016 at 9:15 PM
That's because he's a great actor.. In king and the clown he's doing a feminized character and in MLSHR he's doing a total masculine character. His ability to relay to his role is amazing. In arang and the magistrate he's fun and in scholar who walks the night he's so serious..
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285 tumisk
October 2, 2016 at 9:33 PM
waaah, noticing this drama series made me want to know more about the Goryeo Dynasty, especially when the government of Gwangjong. Where it was said in this series that Gwangjong king was well known to govern with cruel, is that right? could anyone please help to explain this? because I read in several sources, it was not.
Even when he governed, he made many reforms, especially in the field of economic and military. He became "cruel" when some of his brothers attempted for rebellion and they were executed, put to death.
Then he became a "cruel" for reasons, there is always a cause and effect.
Anyway, LJG is a great great actor, very professional. Watching all BTS, he could transform his expression when he should act. But beyond that, he's a warm and hilarious person. LJG and LJE are the fit couple. I hope they can be together .... hahaha. Love LJG ....
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286 Jat
October 3, 2016 at 1:16 AM
I wont blame wook. I can't. I think I am similar to him in many sense. We are not spontaneous, and wild just like So. Wook had to take care of his mother and yeonhwa. Whereas So just have to take care of himself as his mother is more than capable to take care of herself. When he walked away from soo in the rain, he did the right thing. Don't let the girl have anymore false hope from you. He knew very well he wouldn't be able to do anything for her in the future. He might as well put an end to it. That is even better.
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287 pineapplegongzhu
October 3, 2016 at 3:13 AM
Apparently, Wang So's proposal to Hae Su tonight will be nothing short of terrible. Hahaha! Wolf boy lacks finesse. But, I doubt it'll be quite as bad as the forced kiss from episode 9. I'm almost looking forward to it, if only to smirk at just how badly his manners are.
I'm trying to think of equally terrible proposals - and Pride & Prejudice comes to mind! HAHA! Darcy and Wang So could learn a few social graces.
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endo
October 3, 2016 at 2:38 PM
Was it? Yes, it was not flowery. But that was the most selfless proposal i've seen on TV. By LJG,no less.
See yah on Episode 12 thread lataaaaah!
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288 seoulice
October 3, 2016 at 4:23 AM
I've always known this day would come when Wook will have his hands tied and unable to fight for Soo. And in as much as that is greatly due to the unfortunate circumstances he's been unwillingly put in, it was also largely in part of his seemingly weak stance as a man and a lover. 11 episodes in and he has made a multitude of promises to Soo, not a fraction of which he's been able to fulfill and I can't say it's been from a lack of opportunity. As he deliberately walks away from Soo as she's literally down in an almost lifeless state drives the last nail down on that coffin that would've been their life together as lovers.
This is exactly why I've rooted for Wang So even if he has less than gentle ways of showing his love and relentless devotion for Soo compared to Wook. While I did breathe a sign of relief when he said he will no longer be kissing Soo without her permission, he still has probably quite some way to go as far as taming his impulsive emotions is concerned. But unlike his calculatingly reserved brother, So is unafraid to take risks and put his life on the line for Soo. Even if that means willingly taking in poison or facing off with the Father King himself.
So while I did enjoy watching Wook love Soo in the kindest and most gentlest of ways, I'd still want our heroine to be with the man who will stand by her through heaven or hell.
(My theory is that Astronomer knows who Soo is and he probably was the first one to travel from Goryeo to present times. And that he was able to go back when Soo unknowingly went into that eclipse inspired travel hole. Astronomer probably knew how Wang So turned out and thought Soo would be able to help undo his tragic end and save Goryeo from bloodshed. The conversation between Soo and Astronomer when she realized who So would turn out to be during the rain ritual was telling in that he told her not to do anything and just let everything run its course. It would seem like she was purposely put there to change So's fate. But it looks like in the course of things, Wook might be headed to the dark side instead as a consequence. Time travel can be a b*tch sometimes.)
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289 ainggg
October 4, 2016 at 9:21 AM
anyone knows the song during 26.40-28.04? im so desprate to know. it really breaks my heart during that scene.
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scarletberry
August 2, 2017 at 11:18 AM
"Wind" by Jung Seung Hwan
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290 Siela
October 13, 2016 at 8:41 PM
I couldn't help but cry when Court Lady Oh and Hae Soo meet on that situation sad situation. It hit me hard, making my tears to flow and flow, the sacrifice of Lady Oh (One of my favorite characters T_T) and the impotence of Hae Soo before this impossible to accept situation.
When Hae Soo is uselessly trying to remove the rocks... So sad..
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291 sicarius
July 26, 2017 at 11:12 PM
Still the best episode of this entire show.
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292 scarletberry
August 2, 2017 at 11:16 AM
Reading your synopsis and comments, your words are so vivid. I was brought back to episode 11, my favorite episode from the drama, and now I'm an emotional wreck again. Scarlet Heart will never let me go TT_TT
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