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Drama viewership ratings for the week of Sept. 5-11, 2016

Now that shows are settling into their slots, we can get a bit of normalcy around these parts. It doesn’t mean that the numbers necessarily make sense, mind—but it means we should start being able to see patterns we couldn’t identify before. For instance, this is now the second week where Moonlight Drawn By Clouds has absolutely dominated the Monday-Tuesday time slot, and it still may hold some surprises yet as it flirts ever closer and closer to that coveted 20% mark.

Of course, Moonlight’s rise seems to go hand in hand with Moon Lovers’ downfall, as the beleaguered show dropped to 6.0% this week. Monster performed about average, while new cable kid on the block Drinking Solo pulled in 3.2% for its second episode. Not bad.

Over in the middle of the week, Uncontrollably Fond ended at a decent 8.4%, with viewers seeming to prefer the fantasy romance W—Two Worlds. But Jealousy Incarnate isn’t doing bad at nearly 10%—that’ll be the show to watch out for.

Otherwise, weekend shows are performing as expected—both Fantastic and Cinderella and the Four Knights are both hanging just below the 3.0% mark. Laurel Tree Tailors continues to kill in the weekend slot, being the successor to the successful Five Kids, but Flower in Prison isn’t doing too bad for itself at 20%. Both are solid shows, so cheers to their success.

 
Drama viewership ratings for the week of Sept. 5-11, 2016

Ep. # Station Rating
Monday, Sept. 5
Moonlight Drawn By Clouds 5 KBS 19.3%
Monster 44 MBC 9.4%
Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo 4 SBS 5.7%
Drinking Solo 1 tvN 2.9%
Tuesday, Sept. 6
Moonlight Drawn By Clouds 6 KBS 18.8%
Monster 45 MBC 10.3%
Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo 5 SBS 6.0%
Drinking Solo 2 tvN 3.2%
Wednesday, Sept. 7
Uncontrollably Fond 19 KBS 9.5%
W—Two Worlds 14 MBC 10.9%
Jealousy Incarnate 5 SBS 9.9%
Thursday, Sept. 8
Uncontrollably Fond 20 KBS 8.4%
W—Two Worlds 15 MBC 11.3%
Jealousy Incarnate 6 SBS 9.2%
Friday, Sept. 9
Fantastic 3 JTBC 2.5%
Cinderella and the Four Knights 9 tvN 3.0%
Saturday, Sept. 10
Laurel Tree Tailors 5 KBS 23.9%
Blow Breeze 5 MBC 12.1%
Flower in Prison 34 MBC 20.0%
Our Gap-soon 5 SBS 6.9%
Second to Last Love 10 SBS 8.1%
Fantastic 4 JTBC 2.4%
Cinderella and the Four Knights 10 tvN 2.7%
Sunday, Sept. 11
Laurel Tree Tailors 6 KBS 30.2%
Blow Breeze 6 MBC 13.6%
Flower in Prison 35 MBC 21.3%
Our Gap-soon 6 SBS 6.4%
Second to Last Love 11 SBS 9.0%

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The battle ratings between UF, W and even JI was an interesting one. Everyone was waiting to see how it would play out with many expecting UF to emerge the winner (due to heavy promotions from KBS and an early premiere). But I guess no one expected that UF writer would pull an outdated plot on us. My guess is that JI would come in first after W ends.

Another ratings I'm looking forward to would be TVN's K2. Anyone watched Hong Kong drama : Witness Insecurity? K2's plot reminds me so much of that drama

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JI will face another romcom (Shopping King Louie) after W, so that'll be interesting to see.

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I'm worried because as great as an actor Seo In Guk is, he hasn't had the best of luck with the ratings of his public channel dramas.

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The premise of Shopping king seems kind of iffy. but you can always trust SIG to turn on the charm.

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I saw in the twitter n seo in guk's official insta tht they have shooting in France for SKL..hopefully it turn out a good drama

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I feel you. SIG would be as charming as ever but I doubt SKL will get greater number than JI.

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I have to agree with you. JI has had a chance to really cement its position. It has an interesting storyline going on and the leads are really grabbing people's attention.

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I really want him to have one breakout hit on a public channel or in a movie before he has to depart for the army. He's so good, he deserves the wider audience.

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The plot so far makes me yawn, but from the teaser, SKL looks like a light romcom so maybe the audience would fall in love with it as they do with Moonlight - I really really hope for the sake of SIG that the writer is better than whoever churns out the synopsis of the drama so far and the PD execute it perfectly like Moonlight.

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I hope so too, but I have a feeling that JI will dominate once W's out. I hope there's more to the story of SKL than what the teaser of showed us. Or if it is a simple fluffy story, I hope the execution's good. A simple, familiar story can still work wonders as long as the execution is spot-on and the audience can connect with the characters.

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True, but 38 Task Force pulled in huge numbers (by OCN standards) and that along with the fun teasers could work in its favour.

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MBC had She Was Pretty late last year - another series with a similar tone - and that did very well, so I think its more dependent on the execution of the individual show and the competition its against

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Koreans love their romantic-comedies but a flat and unfunny one like Lucky Romance won't do. It only got 10% premiere rating because they're still high on Ryu Junyeol's hype post-1988. And it went downhill from there. An enjoyable watch still triumphs all.

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Yeah, as soon as I read the description of Yoona's character I was reminded of WI as well, let's hope she can emote better than Linda Chung (sorry I have an allergy to her acting...and singing).

And I also think JI will be winning the Wed-Thu slot, it gets better from week to week but I hope SKL won't do to bad for SIG's sake.

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Similar parallels can be drawn amongst the moon shows.

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Man TVB what even happened to you? I completely blame the demise of my Cantonese on TVB's downfall.

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Hear hear. But on the other hand I'm kinda thankful for TVB's crappy productions these recent years otherwise I probably wouldn't have turned to kdramas.

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I have watched Witness Insecurity and have no idea about K2's plot. I only saw the shirtless teaser X_X
I enjoyed WI though it kinda dragged in the middle when the focus shifted, to the younger days of the old guys, and I absolutely hate the end to this day.

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Now that 20% is within reach for Moonlight, PBG and KYJ made another promise - that is, to appear together on Guerilla Date if they hit 30%

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They only agree to it because the person who interviewed them brought it up. It's not like it was their plan. They are just happy with the current rating.

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I saw that interview too. PBG was adorably shy to say their ratings on the second week. haha! The interviewer brought up Guerilla Date and I personally look forward to seeing them appear on that. I hope they go on Guerilla Date even if they do not reach 30%. Doubling their ratings on the second week is already an awesome achievement.

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Anyone knows how the drama schedules will be affected by Chuseok?

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I wonder how the mediocre ratings for uncontrollably fond and moon-lovers will affect the recent trend for pre-produced kdramas.

I know the pre-producing trend could stop the problems of the live shooting process , especially prominent at a kdramas end, like rushed scripts and overworked actors and crew.

That said pre-producing dramas isn't a guarantee of quality or success either.

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I think pre-shootings shouldn't count in dramas' success let alone guarantee it. It should just become the norm in how dramas come to be, eg like films and other tv shows.

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Preproduced dramas are already extremely profitable given the massive amounts they were sold for. If tensions with china ease, then we can expect a lot lot more preproduced.

In fact i think the only ones that are hurt by the drama not doing well are the actors in terms of potential CF loss or being first choice for future dramas. I can think of only JCW who despite having a locally disappointing healer actually benefited professionally. alot.

But if the chinese ban continues then i guess its back to the live shoots.

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Pre produced shows can be equally a hit or miss like live shooting so it all narrows down to writing if you have a good script your show will be a hit. Pre production can have better direction, editing and cinematography and that is why i'm afraid that if people turn against preproduction we might not get as good cinematography atleast. Preproduction just requires a lot of money and that is what seems to be discouraging people towards it, with such ratings, the shows become a total loss.

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If you are talking loss in terms of money then preproduced recover their investments before a single episode is aired. So at least they are good there. the goodwill lost of the cast/director/writer/crew etc is another matter.

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Like bips99 said, on these huge shows the networks usually recover almost all if not all of their investment via foreign sales - it's the cast and crew's (writer and PD included) rep in Korea that takes a hit.

Though both Kim Woo-bin and Lee Jun-ki's performances have been very well-received from what I can see, so I don't think they're in trouble. It might be a different question for their leading ladies, but IU is still one of Korea's most popular singers so no matter what happens with this, she'll always have a career to go back to.

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Hmmm...I thought it would have an equal if not less impact on the ladies.

Despite what everyone says about Suzy, she will continue to get cast. IU might not jump into another acting project soon but she only needs to top the charts and once people forget about the scandal, she might be in favor again.

Woo Bin and Jun Ki's performances may be better than their co-stars but I think they got more to lose. UF was Woo Bin's first lead role and Moon Lovers added another to Jun Ki's lowly rated dramas.

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It was easy to see that the problem with UF was the writing, not the acting. And with the first few episodes of Moon Lovers, the problem seems to be the directing - so the actors should be safe.

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I believe that Moon lovers and Beautiful mind had same problem. Both had weak start. Main lead looks like a crazy killer and female lead seems dumb and totally unnecessary.
Directing is bad but it isn't awful enough to be at fault for low ratings

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Scarlet Heart is also costly production; big cast, stunts and elaborate costumes. I fear that Scarlet Heart's low ratings will deter other stations/studios from investing in big productions. Why bother with the financial risk when they only yield 6% ratings? Yes the investment is made up from China pre-release, but it must leave a bad taste in the mouths of Korean viewers that their national broadcasters are catering more to the needs of a foreign market as opposed to locals.

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My thoughts exactly.

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That's exactly what's happening with Saimdang following THAAD - Korean viewers are not happy that the airing of their drama is being effectively held hostage by the whims of another country.

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Maybe they will think twice next time when casting the actors and choosing the writer, as mentioned above they made Lee Jun Ki as a crazy killer, it's hard to sympathize with a character like that no matter how traumatic his childhood was, female heroine looked annoying and dumb instead of endearing, so I think they should have had a better script and better first episodes, impression was too bad from the start, if they put so much money into production should have paid more attention to those aspects, I also think public felt like casting IU was a disregard of public opinion on her and people were unwilling to check the drama and those who still checked first eps were turned off even more

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This is business 1st and entertainment later. Pre-Produced drama recover most of their cost before airing itself. So even 5-8% rating is a bonus for these dramas. The most important factor is licenses and copyrights and whoever has it makes it big.

If i'm into this business. I will go with preproduce dramas and hallyu stars. 1st and foremost secure your future financial needs. You can play Art later on too.

On balance sheet you can show this and that much loss suffered by this and that entity but in reality most of pre-produce dramas generate profit. Loss is just another tactic used to escape taxation.

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I don't live in Korea but I love Korean dramas that are made for Koreans. It means something more than just entertainment. Expressing their culture and sometimes propagandas behind it are meant for political awakening especially with period dramas. It's fascinating for an international viewer.

I don't like how it's being half baked now to please the international market. It just doesn't feel right and they shouldn't be surprised when the domestic rating drops.

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Expressing their culture and sometimes propagandas behind it are meant for political awakening especially with period dramas

I don't think any of the pre produced till now even had any remotely contentious themes that were toned down to pass censors.... If there was a show that talked about political awakenings, it would obviously not be marketed to china. So i really don't see a problem. Nobody is half-baking or toning anything (yet) to please anyone.

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You don't see how they are half baking Scarlet Heart for China?

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@Kiara. I agree. More sageuk than not these days tend to ignore the fact that Joseon was a tribute state to China, and the kinds of abuses and humiliations that stemmed from that. They either talk big about Joseon standing up to China in ways it never did, or act like China doesn't exist. I think some of it is watering it down for an international audience, and some of it is writers' laziness in dealing with painful facts. I remember watching Dong-yi for instance and wondering how the heck they could act like currying favor with the Chinese ambassador was this bold political enterprise, when it should have been traumatic for the king and his court to bow and scrape before a commoner from another country.

Jung Ha-yeon is one of the few writers that will actually deal with this, but Jung Hyun-min brings me a little bit of hope. I was worried when I watched Jung Do-jeon that he would use the Yuan as an excuse to make the Ming look good, but I was really impressed by the writer's political realism about the situation and themes of resistance even after Joseon was founded. I really hope he writes more sageuk!

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You don’t see how they are half baking Scarlet Heart for China?

Ummmm... Sorry, Can't see. Please explain. Is it something to do with casting idols ?

@juniper - i think even without the preproduced thing, why would you touch something as big as china-korea history unless it directly impacted your story line ?

Like a lot of books open up unrelated plot points and then leave them dangling because they are not connected to your main story idea at all. This is something that george martin does irritatingly often. And the reader wonders why they heck did the author even mention it in the first place? So i'm assuming the same principle applies to dramas or movies.

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@bips99. Ugh, GRRM. At this point his entire series has been consumed by stuff he never needed to mention. In the case of Joseon and China, however...if it's a political sageuk of any kind, ie something that is trying to recreate Joseon's court at any point in its history, China is always relevant. Sure, at certain points it has a more obvious role (mostly when Chinese dynasties changed and suddenly Joseon had to serve a new master), but Joseon politics were always contingent upon China, especially considering that as a Confucian state, which meant they actively emulated the Ming (and were completely traumatized and humiliated when the Qing "barbarians" took over). They had to send tributes to China, suffer their abuse without recourse, give up ancestral lands along the border to them, fight in their wars, curtail their own internal development so as not to upset them (national defense for instance), and deal with the psychological trauma of seeing their king, the embodiment of Joseon's power, regularly subjugate himself to China's authority. Every last detail of Joseon political life was overshadowed by the fact that Joseon was a small, weak nation that had to endure humiliation after humiliation from China and Japan. There's simply no way you can ignore it or cover it up with empty bluster.

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@Kiara @juniper,
All this talk about half-baking for China has made me curious - what are your thoughts on ep 6 of Moonlight, where the crown prince and his friends essentially set a trap for the lecherous and greedy Qing envoy as part of a mission to rescue Ra-on?

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Same here @junny. Wondering what they have to say about Moonlight since my knowledge of history of both countries are pretty much nonexistent. Would love to hear your thoughts kiara n juniper. Thanks in advance ☺

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@bips99

My comment was not about the pre-production. I clearly stated that I prefer Korean dramas that are made for Koreans not half baked for the international viewers.

They have said before that they are making SH to be appealing to the international market.
From casting down to the historical era of Goryeo.

Obviously it won't have anything related to the current state of the politics in Korea like latest Goryeo sageuk SFD.

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So now pre-produced is just another name for big budget fanservice and one that panders not just to Korean fans but international ones? That would explain all the lazy writing or non-existent plots and not the best acting.

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Yep, it's not about improving the live shooting condition or the quality of the show first. It's about the cash first more than anything else.

It's too bad those high budget and pre-produced opportunities is not put to good use in the capable hands of An Pan-seok, Jung Hyun-min, Park Kyung-soo etc.

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@ET. Yeah. I'm actually kind of shocked at how lazy and low quality a lot of the recent preproduced stuff has been. Maybe the live shoot system is so ingrained in them they aren't really editing and planning ahead? I get that people like Kim Eun-sook for instance aren't good writers and nothing is going to change that, but you think given time she could at least have a little more finesse.

@Kiara. I just hope that preproduction pays off, even if they're doing it for the wrong reasons. It's insane the kind of quality the people you mentioned can produce in a live shoot (remember how Ahn Pan-seok had like two weeks notice before they cut The End of the World by six episodes and he still made one of the most cinematic, perfectly orchestrated finales in drama history? Yeah)--imagining what they'd be capable of with some breathing room breaks my heart haha.

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........I'm sure those Kdrama problems would exist all the same regardless of the international fans. Before Hallyu hit it big, there were already plenty of dramas with "lazy writing", "non-existent plots" and "not the best acting". Looks like pandering to Korean fans didn't do Kdramas a lot of good either.

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@juniper

I think Korean entertainment has a lot talented people in it. Their work is not always the most popular so they get less and less projects because the networks needs those who can make money for them regardless of quality.
It's not surprising to see them migrate to cable channels and the film industry.

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@junny

Moonlight is not taking itself seriously in the political area. They are already changing a lot of the politics and history to accommodate this youth romance. Cuteness overload. Just the way we like it back in middle school.

The knight in shining armor who happens to be a fine looking prince rescued the damsel in distress and rides into the sunset. How cheesy and romantic is that?

Just roll your eyes and ride with the politics lol. It's not meant to be taken seriously. A crown prince of Joseon would not jeopardize his country's diplomatic relation with Qing to rescue an eunuch in the first place. They are there to serve the royal household and be sacrificed if needed.

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Omg there's another person using the name ~R~ too so I guess I have to change my name...

I was also wondering whether the ratings for UF and ML would affect networks' decisions for taking on pre-produced dramas. I hope that the ratings won't deter the networks from continuing to pre-produce more dramas in the future, making it the norm rather than the anomaly.

(Also because I'm still hurt over the fact that KBS cuts down episodes when show does badly and extends when show does well. Pre-producing it allows KBS not to be able to extend or cut shows as it wishes)

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But the real question is which of you is the Pretty R and which is "Just" R...

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Once recently there was a person with my real name who replied to one of my posts. I totally did a double-take because I thought it was me from another dimension (too much W going on in my brain).

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Don't change your name. I can just use another letter in the alphabet.

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Pre-producing is determined by Korean producers' wish to sell their show to China. Foreign TV shows must pass muster by the Communist censors before they are allowed on Chinese TV, so Korean producers need all episodes ready if they want a show simulcast in Korea and China. TV ratings will have no impact on this trend.

Now, if China keep up the boycott of Korean culture products the pre-production trend will no doubt stop immediately.

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Idk if this makes sense but as we saw from the earlier pre-produced drama, it seems like the only did it so the show can simoultaneously airing at the different place.
China need to review all the material before airing as their broadcast policy so all have to be preproduced*, so kdrama pd don't seem to do it for the plot imo cause if they did, DOTS wouls have be an excellent 10-12 ep, C4K would have a better character transition, UF will have a better emotional payoff and Moon Lovers doesn't need to be edited again, then some show like W, even KMHM will be preproduced for the content.

I find preproduced drama got a really great shot, scenery and could have georgeous editing but they also seem to have the plot if they did it by live shoot.
This is an inevitable comparison, UF and DOTS seems to force themselves to fill 16 ep with the script that probably just written while filming, like usual live shoot drama, only happen earlier.
Moon Lovers and UF mixed up their season and I find Moon Lovers has relativity small cameo (not the one who has plot but the passerby, the merchant ahjusshi or ahjumma or pedestrian) than said Moonlight who looks like they have a town full or other people.

In the end I find Kdrama preproduced only give the upperhand to the editing team than for the plot or the writing of the story. They seems to make it just like the live shoot schedule but earlier and didn't air the ep.

*yeah China where's my princess of lan ling.... it's been 3 years
ps: it's profitable only because of the star/cast power who is known in overseas market , foreign viewer can't legally watch all the drama that aired in South Korea on their country channel/streaming site so only pre produced drama can gain this upper hand of international viewer and legally counted.

Yes we have streaming services and some people have KBS2 or SK channel with subs but they have to wait and those view is hardly the measurement that brings back the royalti.

Drama like dae jang geum and winter sonata bring much international profit because local stasiun tv bought the right and aired it so it reach many bigger audience who don't stream, the story and overall product make viewer easy to follow the drama premise and bring the popularity for their next drama.

sorry for a long post, you may need to heal your eyes by K2 trailer

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edit
but they also seem to have the "same" plot if they did it by live shoot.

advise: always.be careful when typing on mobile

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I personally think that most k-dramas should be at least half pre-produced, so that the writer and director will have time to finish the last 8 or so episodes without rushing.

I think the only dramas that should be fully pre-produced are the k-dramas that have creative/fantasy or suspense premises, because suspense or fantasy elements need more thought, and more time for the writer to refine her/his story, and make edits if needed. Therefore in the case of a romance/thriller/suspense or romance/fantasy/thriller (like W for example), these shows should be fully pre-produced.

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Of course I am approaching the topic from a "what's best for the quality of the drama and story-line" perspective, and "better working conditions for the actors/actresses and crew" perspective. But I realize, as many have already mentioned, that for the producers the main purpose of pre-producing or not pre-producing dramas would be to capitalize of financial gain.

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Was W preproduced?

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No "W" was not fully pre-produced. I was just saying that a show like "W" should be fully pre-produced, maybe I should've worded it better.

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I'll be revealing how clueless I am about how a drama is produced, but if a drama ISN'T pre-produced, then does it automatically mean that the scenes are shot (more or less) in order of how they appear to us (e.g., Episode 1 followed by episodes 2, 3, 4, etc.)? I guess I'm more curious over whether pre-producing affects the actors/actresses in the delivery of their lines/overall performance. A drama's quality shouldn't be affected by whether or not it were pre-produced, and the fact that pre-production might somehow affect (or "guarantee") the drama's final reception and rating is, to me, a bit nonsensical. Don't most viewers just watch a drama, without really caring to know how it was produced?

I would think that, for an actor/actress, it would be easier to grow into the character he/she is playing if the story flows in a straight-line continuum, rather than playing scenes X, Y, Z ahead of playing scenes A, B, C. But, if one location gets revisited by the characters repeatedly, do they really shoot scenes L, M, F in a row, with just the actors getting a makeup and clothing change??

When a story involves a character's plummet into, say, insanity and ever-increasing craziness, wouldn't it be difficult for the actor/actress to "amp up" the crazy so quickly if the director asked for the last few scenes to be shot first??

On a tangent, I recently watched an interview where Tony Leung, the Cantonese actor, described being asked by Wong Kar Wai to repeat a scene in the movie "Days of Being Wild" 20+ or 40+ times (I forget), and how absolutely drained he felt that he went home and cried. He later suspected that the reason behind it was because Wong Kar Wai wanted him to shed all the acting "techniques" he had developed over the years, so that what showed up on screen was truer, more genuine. Which then seems to me to show that continuum in the story line may not have anything to do with an actor's delivery at all...cos by the time you've repeated a scene that many times, you're probably not thinking any more about what happened to the character before that point in time, but are just trying different ways to make the director finally say, "Cut!"

Which only goes to show that IF dramas are filmed out of order as a norm, we need to give an extra shout-out to the actors/actresses who routinely manage to convince us--and there are so many of them--that they've gradually traveled/grown/developed emotionally from point A thru point Z. Cos these days we, as viewers, are only becoming more and more skilled at noticing when our suspension of disbelief is interrupted by poor acting/writing/etc.

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I feel like it's usually the second episode of the week where a drama's rating is higher, but I could totally understand why Moonlight Drawn By Clouds had higher ratings for their Monday episode.

I hope I have time to watch Laurel Tree Tailors. I've always liked KBS' weekend line up since Ojakgyo Brothers.

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Laurel is enjoyable to watch, perfect for a weekend.

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It's also been such a long time since I have last seen a project of Cha In Pyo, so I'm going to squeeze in some time for this.

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Cha In Pyo is the sexiest man in this show. LOL. I am basically looking forward to his scenes more✌?

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I have never watched a longer drama. the only exception being SFD which i'm slowly working through. Is laurel tree worth the time investment ? The premise sounds interesting enough

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If you want a good longer drama to try, go for Giant (2010).

And if you want to try one of the better examples of a KBS weekend drama, go for What's With This Family (2014) - it was 50 episodes, well written and acted.

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Giant is worth for time investment.

What 's Happen in My Family is still in the list of my favourite weekend drama so far.As for Laurel, it is still early to decide whether it is worth to invest our time. So far it is easy to watch.

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. Thank you... i hadn't heard of Giant before. i'll check it out

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I marathoned Giant for 2 or 3 days without doing anything. LOL basically I was hide in my room until I finished it??

The acting, directing and plot all are great. It was the best revenge drama at least within this five years.

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Giant is unforgettable! If you want a long family-type drama, Yoona's Street is also a very good option.

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oooooo ... now you are all tempting me! ... i love revenge dramas done right. I remember searching for good old fashioned revenge dramas and i got "triangle(2014)" . But the reviews were uniformly bad so i didn't try it out. goodbye mr. black was also such a disappointment.

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Giant was my crack drama back then.

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Cha In Pyo has abs the size of tree trunks, and they just keep rippling as he fries chicken. I can't take my eyes off them. That was in ep 1 and 2. I stopped a little into ep 3, though - so sad, I loved every character there except the lead girl; she doesn't have any chemistry with Lee Dong Gun, and it's sad because I love LDG, but it's so forced it's hard to watch.

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I have a bad habit. Whenever a guy comes on screen, shows off his abs or flexes his muscles, I get hysterical. And by that, I don't mean I swoon. I just find it absolutely hilarious, in a bad way. The recent bath scene in Moon Lovers is one good example.

But whenever Cha In Pyo flexes his muscles, I laugh for all the right reasons. My favorite scene of him was the one where Kim Sun Young cameoed.

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It's the male equivalent of the girl walking into the room and an imaginary breeze just blows her hair back perfectly.

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I couldn't commit to dramas exceeding 24eps so even though I love the actors I'm hesitant to try LTT out.

But then cha in pyo + abs? Sold.

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You should watch his waterfall scene in Gyebaek. SO drool worthy lol.

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I know Cha In Pyo is part of the cast, but no one told me so were his abs! WHAT.

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Laurel Tree Tailor is actually funny and endearing, a nice watch. I've seen 'till ep. 5 and it is surprisingly good and entertaining.

I hope the rating will keep that scale and if it's possible, go up.

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Loving Moonlight and rooting for the ratings to continue.
Losing interest in W and Cinderella, but will still continue.
No intention to watch Scarlet or JI.
Its a breather period after jjuggling too many dramas for the last few weeks, but I can't wait for K2 and Shopping King Louie to start!

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I find it a challenge to watch both sageuks because it's the one genre that I really get into. I feel like I'm time traveling between Goryeo and Joseon lol.

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You may want to try- Queen In-hyun's Man. it sort keeps going back and forth from past to present times. So it doesn't feel very saguek-ish. Plus time travel is always a bonus!

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I don't mean I like time traveling. I meant that I'm struggling to watch both sageuks at the same time.

I've already watched Queen In-hyun's Man when it came out.

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Thanks for the suggestion though :).

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Sorry! I actually read it as "because it’s the one genre that I really Can't get into" .... I need an eye checkup!

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I admit that part of the reason I stuck with Moon Lovers may be because I love the Goryeo costumes - such a change from the usual Joseon sageuk aesthetic. The hair, especially.

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Yea Goryeo's costumes is very old school and heavily influence by the earlier Chinese dynasties like Tang and even further.
SFD's leading lady was mostly in rags so we didn't get to see much of the traditional costumes in that sageuk.

Joseon is still very beautiful with the current hanboks in style. The one that Kim Yoo-jung was wearing during her dance scene was gorgeous. A little bit more modern than the usual.

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yeah, I loved the dance scene hanbok - it's really pretty, with the sheer fabric and colours and of course the thoroughly modern hairstyle too. It reminded me a bit of the hanboks in the movie Royal Tailor, with the more bell-shaped skirts.

SWWTN had the most gorgeous and creative Joseon costumes I've ever seen - shame the drama failed to live up to them.

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Thanks you for sharing this info. I'm a noob when it comes to history as I mentioned above. Now I understand why their dressings look familiar since I used to watch a lot of Chinese historical dramas. I don't know why I didn't see the connection ???

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An alliance between Tang (China) and Shilla led to the destruction of the other 2 kingdoms (Baekje and Goguryeo) so their presence in Korea was prominent during that time period.

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Ahhhhhh .... Don't get me started on the hair. Its like a separate entity on its own! I admit more than LJK, it was the hair that drew me in from the promos. To be able to see the actors face without all those hats (Gat) and bead strings covering the face!!! What joy!!

Plus i got tired how everyone so "nice" in joseon era. half the time i would be yelling "just stab him already" . I love how everyone is so ready to kill in this time period. Someone annoys you - Off with their head! Perfect!

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I'm not a fan of Joseon fashion either. The ladies had it tough, with that enormous braid of hair on top of their heads.

Early Joseon was not very "nice", I think. Yi Bang-won was no angel in his fight for the throne.

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lol I love the gat and those beaded hat-strings (gat-strings?), so it's no hardship for me.

I always get the impression that Joseon schemers were pretty free and easy with the killing, all you had to do was make up a false accusation of some kind and killing someone+enslaving their family was then easier than sneezing.

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@Pogo and Junny. Joseon had an extremely violent political system, but no one was really safe. People had to kill their political enemies so they might survive themselves, and they staked their lives on their maneuvering. If something went wrong or the other side struck first or countered effectively, it would be their heads on the chopping block.

Take Lee Bang-won, for instance. He did a lot of the dirty work when Joseon was being founded, but the minute Jung Do-jeon persuaded Lee Seong-gye to name his youngest son as heir, Lee Bang-won and the rest of his brothers were in mortal danger. That's because sooner or later their deaths would become a political necessity to protect the crown prince from the influence they would wield in court--their existence alone, even if they did nothing, created the threat of a coup. Compounding this was the fact that private armies were not yet abolished (a holdover from Goryeo's feudal power structure), meaning each prince had his own soldiers. When Taejo could not bring himself to kill his other sons, he attempted to get them to relinquish their armies to the state, but they resisted--out of self-preservation or dynastic ambitions, who knows? I mean, we can't erase the fact that Lee Bang-won struck first and murdered Jung Do-jeon and his little brother, or that he went on to kill more of them in the second strife of the princes, and it is telling that Lee Bang-won abolished private armies after taking the throne...but how much can we blame him for preserving his own life and taking what he thought was rightfully his?

It's the same thing with Sejo--yes, he murdered Kim Jong-seo, killed his nephew and seized the throne, but when he chose that path he was already a dead man walking--and most other schemers in Joseon. Some had the interests of the state in mind (Sejo for instance), and some certainly did not (ex, the factionalism during Sukjong-Jeongjo's reigns), but other than the Kims of Andong I can't think of anyone that was ever truly insulated from the kill-or-be-killed system they lived in. tl;dr: it was the times that were crazy, not the people who had to live in them.

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@juniper,
Thanks for sharing about the Joseon political system. Yi Bang-won is a pretty fascinating historical figure, especially since his bloody rise to power was similar to a number of Chinese royal sons who were equally ruthless in clearing a path to the throne.

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@junny. lol no problem. That was a giant wall of text, so thanks for reading it haha. I find Lee Bang-won fascinating, too, especially once you try to deal with the fact that at one point, the bloodthirsty, power hungry monster recorded in history was a living, breathing person who walked this earth, felt the same things we do, looked at the same sky we do, etc...but lived in a violent, crazy world we can barely understand today.

I know almost nothing about Chinese history, but I can definitely see the corollary you're drawing. Dynastic violence was seriously scary. Korean history is actually full of these figures, too, going back to the three kingdoms period. Sageuk has so much Shakespearean potential.

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@juniper,
Dynastic strife is so fascinating and when done well cinematically, can be really engaging, and you're so right about the Shakespearean potential. Since we're on the topic of Yi Bang-won, offhand I would say someone like Li Shimin (Emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty) had a similar trajectory - he played a key role in the campaign to reunify the empire, and later also assassinated his brothers (Xuanwu Gate Incident) to gain the throne. Another notable figure I can think of is Emperor Yongzheng of the Qing Dynasty (fourth prince Yinzhen, featured in the original Bu Bu Jing Xin), who also had to overcome several brothers in order to become king (the succession dispute is well-documented, and I also disagree with how the C-drama romanticised him, but that's for another post). Interestingly, these ruthless, bloodthirsty mofos became really influential figures and good rulers (I suppose "good" is relative) whose policies and reforms helped their respective kingdoms to progress. It's like... how can you do all the things you did to consolidate power, and then turn out to be such a good ruler? (Taizong, for example, is regarded as one of China's greatest emperors, and I'm sure Korea has such figures too). Like you said, it was the crazy times they lived in, but I wonder sometimes if it's also part of their nature. If shrinks existed back then, they'd have a field day.

For me, it's just unfortunate that as I'm not familiar with Korean history, it's been hard for me to get into Korean sageuk. I feel I have to rely on an actor I like (say, Jang Hyuk) to carry me through the heavy stuff and even then it gets tedious. I have fewer problems with Chinese historical dramas since I know the history, but then I get nitpicky if a historical figure I like gets whitewashed or romanticised, or if something feels off in the timeline or interpretation of events. Ah, the dilemmas of a drama watcher, hehe.

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@junny. Thanks to you I learned a lot about Chinese history today :) I think I need to do some research, it sounds like really interesting stuff.

It would be very interesting to look at nature vs. nurture with some of those monstrous figures haha. I think a lot of it had to do with what it took to survive in those days, but I think you're right, it took a certain kind of person to not only live through all that, but to thrive in those conditions. I'm sure there are people today who would be capable of all that and more, if they were in an environment that called for it. As for being good kings after all that blood was spilled, I think a lot of it has to do with consolidation of power. Going back to Lee Bang-won, for example, he killed all the brothers who could have posed a threat to his power, and was ruthless in dispatching not only his enemies but allies that grew too powerful throughout his reign, meaning the monarchy retained absolute authority over the court. I mean, just to show how far he went, he killed his wife's in-laws because in helping him seize the thrown, they gained too much leverage over him, ruined several of his sons' lives to make his chosen favorite heir, then killed future King Sejong's in-laws so his rule would not be compromised by a strong court either. So while it's ironic and tragic that he ended up enacting many of the reforms Jung Do-jeon had planned before he was murdered, it's also worth noting that he made all of King Sejong's accomplishments possible.

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I find Joseon era can be aesthatic depend on your life's choices,
God-byung yeon has a hell mane of glory and the prince style-clothes color is off in Moon Lover (yeah I am looking to 3rd prince and the 5th ?? Jisoo, baekhyun).
They seems to start having uniform like the match hairstyle of Qing dynasty and precaution for sudeen rain, while in Goryeo, they still try to find a better style to adopt, so we have variety.

just a suggestions, Joseon saeguk should has the braided scene or scene when the noble/royal guy tied their hair after shower (with clothes of course - the inner white one). I'll take that scene over any shower scene or abs.

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I get Scarlet Heart and Moonlight entirely mixed up. I always forget that Ra-on didn't travel back in time, she's just crossdressing.

Is there a cross dressing time travelling saguek (with vampires) out there? I'm convinced that there must be.

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Scholar who Walks the night.

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Is there a cross dressing time travelling saguek

There is indeed, Splash Splash Love ^^ (no known vampires, but I'm pretty sure they were lurking about.)

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I just watched Cinderella for this week and done with the cursing! I expected the rating could be lower than this next week. No one expected star writing drama, but I guess the writer probably has something against Cinderella stories. She made the main female lead stories was just about cute and cute. And now focusing on second female lead, who is boring and boring. These guys should not fighting over this girl, and now already at epi 10. She is like the centre of the attention of these two guys. Will come back after it ended, otherwise I will be cursing it over and over again?✌

I better started on JI soon,based on reviews looks like it is interesting one. I like the rating battle in Wed - Thusday much better, as there are not a huge gap. And I watched few episodes of latest epi of Monster, and I like that Jo Boah basically is not misused. In my opinion, she basically deserve Kang GI Tan more.

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Ha-won just became like W's So-hee in this week's episodes. Suddenly Hye-ji became the girl being fought over while Ha-won tries to get the guy's attention. Ugh. I would've tolerated if the acting is decent. But Naeun can't make me feel anything other than sheer annoyance.

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Whoever push this poor into acting, I blame them. She basically is expressionless in every scene. I'll at least sympathize her character a bit, if she is sincere with Ha-won.

At this rate, I just wish Ha Won let Sky House and further her study in the overseas or let's she end up with SeoWoo who is much more sincere with her or Mr Bodyguard. Just leave Ji Woon and Hyun Min fighting over Hye Ji ???

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let : leave

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Agree. I love the changing herione in W, whereas really find it annoying in Cinderella.
Bad written character + bad acting = disaster -_-

I just don't know why Naeun always choose to play annoying character. In Twenty Again, and now in W.

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"now in W" - no, I means in Cinderella. Haha

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I doubt this girl has the liberty to choose what she wants to do, this must be what her agency's doing.But from her works in these two dramas, she basically not born to do the acting. I hope she realized this soon.

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Haven't watch this week ep, I need to prepare myself for jiwon as lead and I still can't .
ε≡≡ヘ( ´Д`)ノ

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More than Ji Woon as a lead (which i dont mind at all since I am the shipper ) it is like changing of heroine which is total messed up.

Which is now I think I want Cinderella just end up with Seo Woo who is sincerely like her. Even Hyun Min pissed me off a lot this week because he does not settle about his feeling towards Hye Hi.

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I don't think they are actually fighting over her. I think JW is going to try some match making.

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I don't mind if that's true, but Hye Ji took a lot of attention from both guys is what pissed me off.

What kind of debt that Ji Woon has towards Hye Ji that he cares a lot of Hye Ji, when he is supposed to really care about Ha Won instead?

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oh idk what happen but that sentences about taking attention already annoyed me l, I guess I need another week to prepare

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I'm sorry if I gave spoiler but that's what happened, and I read most viewers also pissed off?

I will probably skip another two episodes this week, and watch the last two episodes.

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@sera it's okay, you just saved me from a heartbreak, I knew it's coming but at least I prepare for the worst,
wait... I should said thank you then for the warning, lol

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At this point I'm just gonna prefer Ha-won's stepmom & stepsister. Because they're straight evil when facing Ha-won. Unlike Hye-ji who's always pretending she's a kind girl... or she has yet to realize what kind of person she is. Innocent b**** is really frustrating ?? How could she shamelessly say that her words was sincere to Ji-woon that night, when the first person she called was Hyun-min. Heol.

Can't Ha-won end up with Seo-woo and move out from the house? Hahaha. I'm just... just mad at Hyun-min and Ji-woon ?

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Everyone is mad with JW and HM! LOL.

The Chairman just need to cut tie with these two and make HW as his granddaughter✌? Then make Mr Bodyguard and SW as his heirs.
Let's the other two busy taking care their stupid and childish love. LOL

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OMG.... Sooo agreee with you!!
I don't have any strength to watch ep 10! What happen to HW?? She used to be this strong girl, and now she just this clingy girl to JW.
HM, my fave, has become this emo guy.. Because of HJ??
I'll drop this drama for a while.. Until the story comes back to its fun and happy track.
Poor Seo Woo and bodyguard Lee... They are sooo underused!!

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HJ's boring story basically stole Seo Woo and Bodyguard Lee screen time.

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Yup - I was afraid that around the middle it would fall yet again into the the old cliche Candy Girl syndrome, and sure enough it did. I was really hoping they would not go there.

Ep9 was nearly all fluff, with almost zero happening or moving forward and most of the characters just sitting around talking to themselves. Ep10 first 2/3 was more of the same. Basically you could skip 9 and FF 40min into 10 and not miss a thing except for filler scenes.

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Since people above were discussing about pre-production and its pros and cons I really wish C4K was live shot. Then HM wouldn't have gotten a personality switch and judging by people's reaction to HJ I bet she would've been sent to Whateverest episodes ago instead of being the focus of the drama now. I want to summon the W-killer for an encounter with this writer, seriously.

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See, this is proven the pre-production wont determine the quality and.. the disadvantage here because the production cannot change the plot here and there, especially on HM and the two-faced HJ parts ??

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I haven't ever paid attention to ratings before, since lately I've stuck to cable and those have generally done well by their standards (also because apart from ratings for a few like Signal or R88, they rarely make sense to me), but I really hope Moon Lovers does much better. It's been super interesting for me and the second week itself upped the stakes by a lot. The initial word-of-mouth about how completely, utterly, unwatchably horrendous it is, is extremely misleading imo. It might not suit everyone's tastes and it has its issues, but, for me, it's grand-scale, unpredictable, and the most engaging drama currently, which hits both comedy and tragedy well.

I'm not watching either W or UF, but I really, really hope Jealousy Incarnate gets high ratings, because I absolutely love it and I really want to see more of that experimental vibe in the rom-com genre and for dramas like this to be successful and allow for more conceptual variety in the mainstream networks.

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I think Moon Lovers (going to call it Scarlet Heart now bc I risk mixing it up with Moonlight otherwise) was shot in the foot by that sloppy first episode, and by Moonlight actually having better-made episodes in that same time slot.

Not to mention its own hype - which then blew the backlash against the rookie-level-mistakes (awful OSTs, some questionable directing choices) to even greater heights. It's a shame because the drama hooked me so hard and I love the way it veers between comedy and tragedy, plus I genuinely can't tell how it's all going to turn out. It's not the most accurate sageuk out there, but it does tell an epic and so far unconventional (for a kdrama) tale, and I enjoy that.

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Yeah, they did shoot themselves in the foot with a weak first episode/week, but I feel like that's turned into a narrative which still doesn't make sense. It's an easy enough shorthand for the why of the ratings but it really doesn't compare to much that came before so it's difficult to make an assessment.

IMO the ratings are incredibly disproportionate even for an uneven first week. So the ratings for the second week (which was actually pretty good) can only be understood through the millions of articles that sprung talking about the "failure" of ML (in it's FIRST week, even though they averaged about 7-8, which is okay) and all the extreme reactions about how awful every single thing about it was and how unwatchable it is, which probably turned off casual viewers and made even those who probably thought it was okay while watching the premiere episodes, to check out Moonlight to see how good it was to justify the gap- ergo the slight second week fall.

Forget against a hyped, promoted drama like SH, this isn't even a normal leap against an unknown drama, and has probably only happened a handful of times (if ever) before in dramaland, although I think it did during the time of Descendants and Come Back Mister- but those dramas aired on the same date, so the second-week ratings choice was a conscious choosing of Descendants (which had already started with double the ratings of Come Back Mister and CBM would have found that hard to recover as is) unlike here where the ratings for Moonlight doubled basically before SH aired. But generally, for instance, in the preceding dramas and their similarly positioned ratings battle, Doctors started off with a 13% and consistently rose- their biggest leap between episodes was still less than 3%. Beautiful Mind started at about 4% and consistently stayed at about that much. Even Reply 1988 which started off at about 6% consistently rose to about 18% by the end, without any huge leaps.

For me to think that this gap makes sense, even with ML's initial problems, would only be if I thought Moonlight's first two episodes were absolutely mind-blowingly spectacular, which made people immediately want to shift to it, or the word-of-mouth was so incredibly good that it made people want to immediately start watching it after Doctors. Neither of which I can comprehend. The first week of Moonlight was really cute, but definitely nothing insanely incredible, and the word-of-mouth seemed to suggest exactly what was suspected pre-airing; that it was beautiful, well-directed, and the actors were excellent.

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Which suggests to me that Scarlet Heart really wasn't something that people wanted to check out at all, and the uneven first week contributed to it, but wasn't the entire reason. I just don't think after their low first episode ratings, they COULD have recovered. They lost their chance the moment the premiere wasn't given a chance, and Moonlight jumped to 16%. There's a lot of talk for how Moonlight started off at the same ratings of about 8% but doubled it in their second week, and so SH could have done the same- but the thing is, that's the exception (perhaps the sole exception??) not the rule. For SH to draw even some viewers from Moonlight in the second week, the word-of-mouth would have to be almost incredibly positive and gushing for the first week, and Moonlight would have had to be unengaging, simply because if they've already picked a drama, people would prefer sticking to it, unless the word-of-mouth and reviews were incredibly strong for the other, which, for obvious reasons, they weren't for SH.

SH has lots of faults, and the first week could easily turn off casual viewers, but I feel like there's a lot to ratings that's not easily explained. Simply put, I just don't think there was almost anything SH could have done, even if it was incredibly, incredibly good in its first week (which it wasn't) to compete on equal terms against Moonlight once their ratings shot to 16% because even for the dramas to average about 12%, SH would have to rise 4% and Moonlight to fall 4% and idk if THAT'S ever happened before. UF fell after W's premiere, but that was after they followed a reasonable trajectory for a hyped drama- their ratings were good initially, but the story (and acting? idk) disappointed people and they latched onto something better. SH didn't disappoint people so much as it validated their negative views about it. Few watched it initially, the reviews confirmed it wasn't worth watching, and thus second week happened. Of course if it was incredibly good, it could have improved its ratings somewhat, if not exactly competed, but then understandable they didn't (since the first week was weak and the word-of-mouth terrible.)

I think next week would be definitive that way, because 4&5 were very good, and the word-of-mouth is improving, so it'll be interesting to see if there's any change at all or the table is in stasis now, especially since Moonlight is still v. good, and now the trend, so I really don't see it losing its position.

I don't know if there's ever been a drama that was established v. popular that just fell down by a lot because of its competitor which also became popular? UF wasn't really popular, people were just testing it out clearly. Usually once established as popular, it's the same dramas that become more popular, very rarely do they lose their popularity. Case in point: Cinderella, despite having lost all track and plot and script and character is still not losing viewership. So I def...

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I actually had to look up all these dramas and their ratings because I've never thought about it before. If only I put half the research in my academic work lol.

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Hi Zoe, so I was puzzled by the low ratings of Scartlet Heart and then I came here to look. And I found your analysis! Very interesting perspective!
(Are you also in academia?)

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I was all cable until Moonlight and Scarlet Heart came out. Tried W and dropped it pretty early so that doesn't count.

I think Scarlet is rather predictable because of it's familiar source materials. Same with Moonlight.

Hopefully the networks will learn from Doctors and Beautiful Mind, Moonlight and Scarlet. Same genre going head to head at the same timeslot is not going to turn out well for one of them.

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I so agree on cable - my favourite things this year have been PU38 and Age of Youth. Scarlet has me for now because of oppa and my unfamiliarity with the source novel/cdrama, but with a different cast I wouldn't be so into it.

I have just 3 eps of AoY left and Han Ye-ri destroyed me so hard in ep 9 I ugly cried. It's amazing how good she is at conveying the nuance of an emotionally repressed character who likes to pretend everything's fine - usually, when actors who aren't up to par take on such roles, people explain the subsequently bland/wooden performance away as the character being written that way, but HYR puts the lie to all those excuses.

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AoY had that emotional effect on me too. I cried when they cry and laugh along with them when they are happy. SO much heart.

Han Ye-ri is a true movie actress. It's so good to see that kind of acting caliber in dramas once in awhile.
I wish I could see more of Go Ah-sung in dramas too or in one of Kim Ki-duk's short films.

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I still have 3 episodes left, but goodness, she's incredible. The whole show is, really - I thought it was pitched perfectly for its setting and subject, and didn't notice any shortfall in the aesthetics. It's a shame most public channel dramas would just waste her, unless it was Ahn Pan-seok or someone like that. (also agreed on Go Ah-sung)

I suppose the real surprise is that the emotional lynchpins of the drama so far are Han Ye-ri and Ryu Hwa-young - the latter, I was not expecting. I love how well the ensemble cast vibe together, even the weaker ones like Han Seung-yeon. It's like the drama picked off all the female characters who'd be empty tropes in other dramas and fleshed them out into complete life, it's amazing.

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Now i have to watch Age of youth. Everyone is just raving about it. I usually don't like the chicklit genre. It tends to get too preachy. but now i have to watch it.

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It's actually insane. I was like wait, is this what I'm meant to feel when female leads in kdramas cry? What have I been missing out on? Han Ye-ri emoting unfortunately made me realise how mediocre everyone else's acting was.

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This is truly insane. And I know I will keep comparing her acting with other actress after this.

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I feel like Han Ye-ri is to acting what Simone Biles is to gymnastics.

There's good, even great, and then there's, well, HER.

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Insane is the word, alright. I started tearing up when she was sharing ddukbokki and eomuk and drinking beer with the other girls and she looked at each and everyone of them as if she was trying to drink their face in for the last time. And then she smiled, seeing them so happy. And I ugly cried. I thought, this is so weird, but feels so right. That's how a good actress should make you feel, like you're in their shoes.
I cried some more when she tried to swallow her tears on the bus after her date, on the way to see her brother. She didn't even cry much and I was bawling. It was insane.

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You know how good she was when you start tearing up when someone else talks about her scenes because it stuck with you.

She is such a show stealer. I predicted that she would with AoY too.

"As One" was promoted with Ha Ji-won and Bae Doo-na as the leads but Ye-ri stole it and delivering the North Korean dialect perfectly. That girl has a way with speech.
If you watch her in SFD, she would slay you with her gaze and speech delivery alone.

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The only actress that can make me cry harder than Han Ye-ri is Jeon Do-yeon. Which is about the best compliment I could give to anyone.

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Regarding Han Ye-ri in As One, I went from that movie thinking that the production team managed to cast a North Korean defector who's extremely good at table tennis and just throw her in a situation with a bunch of actresses, let her react and just shoot away". That's how convincing she is.

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Even this year, drama on public stations probably better than last year, but my favorites still from cable.

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@The other Kiara: Luckily I'm not familiar with either source material so they're both unpredictable for me! Although, lol, like I said in my original comment, I've never thought about ratings before and I never get them anyway, because I haven't watched anything on a TV in years or even livestreamed (I watch everything on my laptop), so if they were ratings shows airing where I live, even if I was watching them, my viewership wouldn't count, which is odd to me. I practically don't know anyone who watches currently-airing media on the TV unless it's a with-dinner ritual or something. It's all rather interesting!

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Not knowing the source materials have its advantage. I think I would've enjoyed it more if I wasn't so hung up on the original and the history. It's like the biggest spoiler.

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tbh Moon Lovers 15 minutes trailer stakes the bar very high ...
give the editing team gold medal to make it so good and looke like have a better story than the 1st week.

I don't think people really badmouthing it as the worst of the worst beside the overanalyze idol acting criticism,
I think it's the amount of people who is let down.
Moonlight has that range in the 1st week too but almost all satisfied so they just saying that it's good to check, but many people said that.

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I'd have thought so too, about that trailer except that the 1st episode had only 7% in ratings. This meant a lot less people were anticipating the show.

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the 2nd got 9% and I think that what people choose, they choose to watch their usual drama and compare to the 2nd ep of Scarlet Heart for a better next ep comparison, actually this a golden chance imo as a viewer or even as the SC pd,
Why would you risk loosing the next ep of your monday drana when pilot is still about introduction? starts on 2nd ep wouldn't be that bad, we all already knew what happen on 1st ep anyway and it easier to read the short summary later.

And imo that's the mistake, they shouldn't aired the 2nd ep that night since saw that after other is just make you don't want to give it another chance.

I also think that's normal for early week ep, viewer start rising after 1st week but they showed significant changed after 1st day/pilot too
Moonlight 1st and 2nd is around 8% then 9,3... because good 1st ep,
UF dropped from like 12 to 11 because the early death information ,
I think W also around 9 to 10? rise for the gripping story in 1st ep
the 9,3% on ep 2 is good because people check it and it's a good number, that the people who probably willing to stay as the pilot viewer

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Honestly, I personally don't think people being let down was a huge factor for the ratings. I won't deny it contributed, but I don't think it played any significant role.

If after the hype, after the trailer, after the interviews, after the investment etc., people still didn't give the drama a chance in the premiere itself, then it's hard to argue that they were let down is why the ratings are low. That is because even if SH had lived up to the hype in the first week itself, those would still be its premiere ratings. (Unless people were waiting to confirm whether it was living up to the hype before starting to watch, which doesn't usually happen tbh). It would still be difficult for it to make its way up from there, because even if as good as the trailer, it would only be living up to what people should have already expected and thus rejected through non-viewing. If the majority was actually let down, SH would have followed UF's trajectory, people would give it a chance and then switch. But the switch happened before the first episode aired.

I don’t think people really badmouthing it as the worst of the worst beside the overanalyze idol acting criticism

They did, because it wasn't only acting that was absolutely trashed (the entire focus on Baekhyun and IU and the secondary on the princes), so was the editing, the direction, the music direction, etc. In short, everything that makes a drama. Not all of it invalid ofc, the first 2 episodes were all over the place imo.

Moonlight had that range in first week, yes, but it's jump in the second was unprecedented. Expecting SH to do the same after their premiere went up against a drama getting 16% in the same time-slot, may have made it the first drama ever to do so. Even Moonlight wasn't up against a drama already highly rated and gained that rating only after Doctors ended and that viewership freed up.

Even if people had been very, very impressed by the second episode of SH the ratings would only have risen marginally, because viewers had already started watching Moonlight so there'd be no real reason for them to shift, unless Moonlight was terrible and SH extremely good, which obv was't the case. Especially since it's not like you can never watch a drama if you don't watch it in its airing slot, since online viewing is incredibly easy anyway.

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>>Unless people were waiting to confirm whether it was living up to the hype before starting to watch, which doesn’t usually happen tbh....<<

I agree with this, many people become reluctant to easily believe the hype, probably due to DOTS mega hype and UF that follow the same big hype.
It also doesn't help by the 1st week ep

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True, I'm really curious as to what played the biggest part in the ratings; the premise? That it has a well-beloved adaptation? The editing? The acting? The general idol-actors dislike? The hype putting people off? It'd be interesting to know what was the decisive factor.

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@Zoe, someone supposedly from Korea commented on an earlier SH post in DB that most Koreans didn't watch or know about the Chinese adaptation.

I also read this purely speculative conjecture on Chinese forums that the domestic audience would prefer to watch a drama adaptation of a Korean beloved story rather than an adaptation of a Chinese beloved story, and the recent Korean-Chinese unhappiness which unfortunately affected the entertainment industry may also have some effect. After all, the banning of Korean artistes, dropping them off commercials (e.g. SJK) or half-way through drama production (e.g. YIN), may not sit well with the Korean public.

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*sigh*

Sucks about Scarlet Heart's ratings but that's not going to stop us watching anyway, the comment party on the recaps is loads of fun.

I hope the lesson SBS and Kim Kyu-tae (and KBS/Lee Kyung-hee) take away from this is that you can't afford to be sloppy (ML) or leave things extremely vague (UF) in the first episode, especially not with a pre-production. It's like a marathon runner getting tripped by a badly tied/unravelled shoelace, they cost themselves even the fighting chance they could have had by just not bothering.

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Not everyone can do sageuk. I didn't expect Kim Kyu-tae to be this bad. Sageuk has a way of bringing out the best and worst in actors and also directors/writers.

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It still staggers me that someone at SBS possibly saw that final cut of episode 1 that originally aired, complete with horrible music and all, and didn't think for one second that this was not a good viewer experience.

I mean, I thought pre-produced dramas at least allowed someone time to review what was actually going to air on the channel.

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I am amazed myself at the fact that Scarlet Heart first episode was seen by higher ups and passed. How do you sit through that awful edit, awful song choice and give it a go after having years of experience in the business is baffling to me. This reminds me of World War Z, paramount and Brad Pitt were horrified after seeing first version. Paramount actually invested additional amount, new script writer was hired and they shot for additional seven weeks and the box office actually responded positively to that as well as critics. I am in no implying drama production in Korea can possibly afford to that but how did not one network executive object to these flaws. Were they really so overconfident and what exactly inspired that sort of carelessness??

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I really hate Kim Gyu-tae's style so I did haha. I think the reason he gave everyone such ridiculous bangs is so the lace front wigs won't show in his close ups. Oh well, at least he's done butchering Noh Hee-kyung's scripts.

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Scarlet Heart actually improved a whole lot with 4 and 5. It may not be out of critical condition but a mere 6% when even Scholar Who Walks the Night got a decent 8% is through out its run is heartbreaking for Jun Ki. This show at least should score a 8-10% now. But I guess majority viewers left after those God awful 3 episodes which is a shame. This may be the first pre-produced drama that suffered mainly due to awful production team who were too full of themselves to review their footage and editing having months in their hand after completion of principal photography.

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This is what really makes me rage - when the network has to force a re-edit of episodes, you know you messed up.

4 and 5 are great episodes but Scarlet Heart stumbled at the starting point and is probably never going to recover because it had the task of proving that it lived up to its hype, and flubbed the first time around so viewers simply didn't tune in afterwards. It breaks my heart that Lee Jun-ki is going to have this chalked up as a domestic failure against his name when it's all the fault of a production team that couldn't be bothered to do their jobs.

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Any one here watching Blow Breeze? It's got lovely actors but that premise is too little for a weekender.

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Me. The plot is moving at speed of sound if not light. I like it but how on earth will they stretch it to 50 is a wonder to me. I love both leads though. So far this my current weekend show.

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50?? They should at least shorten the episode length. The ratings aren't bad, so, good for the cast.

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Moon lovers ratings hurt my heart :( .. no matter what flaws one thinks this show has, it does not deserve this low of ratings. Its getting better and better. 10-12% would at least soothe the casts that all their work was not in vain.

Moon lovers Fighting!!

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It's not the cast's fault that their PD was too lazy to do his damn job properly from the start, but the bright side of pre-production is that at least they're done and off the set, so they don't have to keep working in the face of falling ratings.

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10% probably a little too high at this rate and with a strong competitor. Even Monster will ends if few weeks, the replacement drama probably manage to get a decent start, as I guess Choi Ji Woo & Jo jin Mo are still much loved by netizens and the premise actually sounds interesting as well.

I hope SH manage to at least get 8%-9%, if two digits are too high for them. If the production did a better job from the very beginning, probably the rating will not suffer as now.

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@bips99 Agree 1000000000% Moon Lovers Fighting!!!!

Moon Lovers had a questionable first episode, but it was still intriguing and kept me interested. Loved watching the subsequent episodes!

Moonlight was awful the first 2 episodes. I stopped watching (I rarely do this because I like to finish what I start). Out of boredom got back in and it has gotten better, but I don't care about it the way I do Moon Lovers.

I truly believe Moon Lovers Scarlet Heart Ryeo is the best drama out right now. Totally invested in the leads acting, the production quality,and the storyline. I would hate it if the leads get flack for these ratings. The cast and crew deserve so much more!!

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Maybe the fans should expect a 10% maximum on the ratings if the show got very very good later on. Because at this point, it's already too late for Moon Lovers. Viewers are already loyal to Moonlight.

Can't really blame them when they only get to choose 1 between the 2 and the difference in quality is too big to be ignored. Moonlight is better in term of directing editing acting OST and cinematography. Moon Lovers shot it self in the foot for airing those 3 awful episodes first. The acting also doesn't help much.

I watched all 5 eps and frankly, it got more cons than pros. I don't think I can continue. Mainly because the random camera close-ups are so disturbing. Many agree with me on this point too. Hope they can fix that in future eps.

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In the prime-time slots of big 3 networks, I thought that Wed-Thur is used to be more popular and powerful than Mon-Tue, since biggest A-listers used to choose their long-awaited-comeback dramas in Wed-Thur. But, nowadays, it seemed completely different, first Doctors, now Moonlight made more rating than Wed-Thur shows, even though W is doing decent. Maybe most Korean viewers turned on their TVs on Mon-Tue? ?

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High Ratings made KBS more greedy and in future a few more good shows will be shown the door.

None of the main public broadcast channel aired Age of Youth because of its content.

I was also surprised to read that Age of Youth's ratings disappointed many people. For JTBC 2-3% and even TVN 2-3% rating is considered above average.

This is why I think FantastiC and Cinderella both are doing fantastic.

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It only got to 2% in the last 2 episodes. 4 out of 12 were under 1%. That wasn't good at all.

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That's a fact. No channel would like to burn their precious air time like that. But Many other shows of JTBC has remained low key too. Een 1.1-2.0 would be consider good for JTBC

Their big hit this year is Ms. Temper and Nam Jung Gi.

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Ms Temper & NJG and Mirror of The Witch probably are both a hit for jTBC this year so far.Maybe Fantastic will be made in list as well. I also predict Man To Man will be a hit as well.

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That timeslot was pretty competitive. AOY went against Good Wife plus the highest rating weekend drama Five Kids on Saturdays.

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Last year, JTBC's dramas had an average of 1%-1.9%. Their dramas barely made it to 2%. Their only dramas that reaches 2% were Maids (Went as high as 4.8%) and Last (Ended at 2.2%).

AOY Started at 1.3%, and it went down as low as 0.45%. But it did pick up on later episodes and went as high as 2.5% considering the amount of competition they get from the Big three and tvN, so yes! i believe that AOY should be considered a hit, considering how small JTBC is.

Besides, AOY is quite popular to netizens, and to younger demos, which is good since JTBC cares more about the younger demo than the actual ratings because that's where the ad money comes from.

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Fantastic & Cinderella are doing well for cable, but not for Age Of Youth. Age of Youth took sometimea to gain more viewers ( although I read that actually many netizens watching it online).

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I think traditionally the Mon/Tues timeslot has always drawn a larger audience with long running sageuks or dramas targetting an older audience (dramas like Doctors or makjang melos). Wed/Thurs used to be purely for trendy shows and some of them have been mega hits and some not (it varies wildly). Over the years, I think ratings have been consistently higher on Mon/Tues. Not much has changed imo.

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I think Jang Ok Jung and Empress Ki also a monday saeguk

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I enjoy watching both of Moon Lovers and Moonlight as they have their own satisfying story (and eye candy ><). I once wished that Moon Lovers could gain as much rating as Moonlight because imo they deserve higher rating, but now I don't care about the rating anymore and just enjoying my two favorite shows as much as I can :)

Cheering for Prince Young-Ra On and So-Soo couple \^○^/

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I loved the first two episodes of Cinderella, and I was looking forward to the next episode, there seemed to be so much potential for the characters and for the setup to twist and surprise, but it just slipped into well worn cliche so rapidly.

You can tell when a show is loved by fans, the English subs are available within a couple of hours of the show airing. For the first couple of episodes Cinderella was being subbed the same day (with time differences taken into account), but now seem to be slipping.

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I love the antics of Hyun min, he is the most interesting character in the show. But ep 8-10 kill his characters...
Hiks

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I also loved the first few eps of Cinderella because the heroine was no pushover. However, have become bored with subsequent weeks because they've dumbed down PSD's character. Why can't the writers make the main girl smart and sassy till the end? It's been a torture to try finishing this drama; Only PSD is keeping me from quitting.

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Yes only PSD keeping me from quitting.

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RIGHT. It's awful what they did to PSD's character in favour of the most bland personalities in drama history. Seriously looking forward to Chairman's next challenge and the evil stepmom/daughter schemes.

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They pretty much ruined PSD's character from 7-10. I was very disappointed that she fell into the usual cliches. Now she has totally tossed her original mission to the winds and fallen into that far too common trope of the poor Candy Girl with rich guys chasing after her. I love PSD, but really.. this show will have to move forward to keep my attention much more.

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I still think even until the current episode, the subs is pretty fast.

But agreed,this drama is so messed up now.

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They could have tossed ep9 into the trash bin and not lost a thing.

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Really, is there any KBS weekend drama that doesn't do well?

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I think 'doing badly' for a KBS weekend drama means failing to break 30 percent lol.

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Maybe because of the different time slot, if I'm not mistaken Laurel starts earlier (maybe 8.30pm) than FIP & STLL start a bit later. Blow Breeze is competing with Our Gabsoon in the same slot.

Maybe it will be good if DB consider to put the timeslot so we will know who is competing against whom.

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Yes you're right. Laurel Tree Tailors starts at 19:55, Blow Breeze at 20:40 and Flower in Prison at 21:45. Meaning LTT doesn't have any direct competitors, which makes sense for KBS weekend dramas seemingly 'dominate' the weekend ratings.

Been suggesting for DB to put the timeslot too since it's misleading to put all weekend shows under one heading, considering that the weekend shows are all airing at different time slots. Even putting Drinking Solo with Monster/Moon Light/Moon Lovers seem misleading as Drinking Solo is airing one hour later.

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Thanks for the right info?
The weekend strategy for each station seems weird, they are not directly competing with each other but KBS always get the highest rating.

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KBS's Laurel airs from 8-9pm, whereas MBC'S Flower In Prison competes with SBS's Second to Last Love from 10-11pm.

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w is my life and i still hope it ends on a high note...it deserves better

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Does anyone watch Laurel Tree Tailors though??? I would like to know if it is worth it + any other new dramas that are airing. I am only watching Cinderella and Moon Lovers (Scarlet Heart) and both are amazing from my point of view

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LTT is an easy family drama to watch. Not so much conflicts right now. But probably perfect for weekend. It is not addictive but is is perfect for relax weekend.

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I wonder if pre-produced shows can do some sort of trial preview or something? They can then gauge the response and garner feedback before proceeding to film more episodes or final edit. I'd imagine that shows like Moon Lovers would benefit. It's quite shocking that Moon Lovers' ratings is nearer to cable drama Drinking Solo and half of its next competitor, Monster.

I just started on Fantastic. Kim Hyun Joo is marvelous, I should check out her other dramas. Joo Sang Wook is best at comedy, I laughed whenever his character shoots himself in the foot and spoil the moment.

Laurel Tree started well but I am having a hard time watching Jo Yoon Hee. I was alright with her in Nine and Pied Piper but this one, I just can't. Strangely, I have the same problem with Park Ha Sun. Maybe there are just some overly animated faces that I cannot stomach.

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Maybe they can do more half pre-produced shows? Like I think W did film a few episodes in advance but continued filming the rest of the episodes while the show was airing (correct me if I'm wrong). I think this way, you can still sort of gauge the audience response and change the script for the remaining episodes if necessary, as opposed to filming everything and then realised that your audience doesn't like the way the show is going.

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I actually meant preview to a closed group made up of people selected for representing various segments and maybe drama critics.

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So far I think Kim Hyun Joo's best performance in jTBC sageuk drama Cruel Palace and I Have A Lover. She is like a Queen of long drama because most of her works are long drama.

Joo Sang Wook is the best in comedic roles.

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She's great in Sangdo too!

Joo Sang-wook was also good in Giant, which was more serious.

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Almost forgot Sangdo!

And yes, all actors in Giant were so good, JSW also great there but that was probably his only serious role that I like. (not watching all his works though).

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I think Giant is about the only thing I've seen him in tbh lol.

Giant had such an amazing cast. Jung Bo-seok, Park Sang-min, Lee Beom-soo, and Lee Deok-hwa were all amazing. Even uneven performers like Hwang Jung-eum outdid themselves.

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Yes she WAS great in Sangdo. The scene she ran to hug Sangdo was one of the most romantic scene for me.

And Giant, even though I enjoyed it, I only remember Jewery Jung.

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i watch laurel because my thirst toward lee dong gun and found out that the story is so interesting. the side characters are scene stealers (speaking of cha in pyo, ra miran, that rocker guy with LDG's older sister). those people are so funny. i bet the story is more like how usual family drama would be which is long dragging until 50 episodes. but for currents episodes, i still find this drama interesting

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Moonlight Drawn By Clouds totally blown me away. It keeps getting better and amazing, every ending of each episode makes me totally cannot wait for the next one. I hope the production team takes it wisely over this extension thing. I don't mind at all if they won't extend the episodes, as long as it turns out good.

I totally lost my interest over W, it's a good drama but, I don't know... I feel nothing the more I watch it. I'm dropping this one, sorry Jongsuk-ah.

Uncontrollably Fond finale was predictable. I knew it he will die eventually, but I still cried. The whole an hour of episode 20 made me cry out loud. Lee Kyunghee, I'm not gonna watch your next project, istg.

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W lost its magic for me in the recent episodes starting when KC read the comics and went to the real world with YJ. I wasn't feeling the romance since then and stuck to it for the plot which also lost its earlier awesomeness. I still like it and look forward to the ending.

I am happy for Moonlight team and I wish the PD considers the extensions very very wisely. This drama is an example of a familiar set-up/story but it's the execution that makes it special. The overall quality is near perfect and damn the leads are amazing young actors.

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I was addicted to W for the first 12 episodes, but gradually have been losing interest. The last two episodes have been subbed for a while but I have not bothered to watch them.. and not sure that I will. The show just kind of went sideways.

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@Celine: ikr? I'm looking for the romance tbh, coz watching UF gives me a lot of pain and I need some lovey-dovey scenes to make my mood brighter. I was hoping W would be healing my angsty mood though lol. Nevertheless, I will definitely watch the ending.

I hope so, they realllllyyyyyyy need to consider it wisely. It would affect the well-balanced plot they maintain so far. Anyway the OSTs are also damn good omg. The lineups are amazing. From Soyou, Gummy, Sandeul, Ben, Sung Sikyung, Beige, Hwang Chiyeol, Baek Jiyoung, and now Bogum is considering to participate as well. Omg~

@windsun33: the same thing goes for me as well. I'm not even bothered to watch the latest episodes and I'm only gonna watch the ending lol. Reading W from the recaps is enough

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I saw the OST artist lineup for Moonlight too and OMG ah-mazinggg! I love everyone so far. I just wish Ali and Lyn would sing for Moonlight too. I think when it comes to emotional and goosebumps inducing OST, they're Gummy, Baek Jiyoung, Ali and Lyn.

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Ratings don't mean anything, ... until they mean everything. hehehheh

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Moonlight drawn by clouds deserves the ratings. Bo gum and yoo jung are doing fabulous job. Bo gummie is nailing crown prince role. No wonder kim yoo jung is a veteran in saeguks, to carry the show as main lead is different thing and she is doing awesome job. Jin young has surprised me with his acting skills and KDY is my recent crush. I m totally crushed by his saeguk looks. Chae so bin yeppuuudaaaa... Sometimes I find her more beautiful than yoo jung. But still yoo jung is yoo jung.

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I personally enjoy Moon Lovers, mainly because I started watching from the third episode. And when I go back to Episode 1, I kinda get people's annoyance towards the constant (and unnecessary) zooming and the awkward "say yes say yes" OST which probably lead people to drop the series.

But I really hope the rating goes up at least to 10%, it's kinda sad, because idk about others but Lee Junki does a great job for his character. I wasn't a fan and this was his first drama that I watch, & I'm amazed at how well he expresses his emotions with his facial expressions alone! GOD, this guy, I'm starting to love him <3

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As for me, I started at episode 4, with many Wang So moments, and also Wang So X Hae Soo moments, now I am falling hard. Too late to regret for watching this drama while its airing.

The rating makes my heart break, towards the casts and staffs, and especially towards Lee Jun Ki. Watching his BTS clips, interviews and in running man, we can see how passionate he is towards acting. I hope this 'rating problem' wont discourage him too much.

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This 'hate' on Scarlet Heart seems awefully fishy. Is it because it's pre-produced? Or do some higher ups and media and netizens hate someone in the staff or cast? Like wtf

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what little i have been able to understand of korean entertainment is that idols come with their fan base. But even bigger anti-fans. So people just descended on the show with knives out. Like the excessive criticism of baekhyun makes no sense given that he was there for like 5 minutes. it creates a negative sentiment about the show. Also the show has some post production problems. Also tensions with china has people turning against what they think is catered to outsiders (not sure how true this is but i have read some pretty strong nationalistic comments) . ... however, now the dust is settling. most people are liking the show, flaws and all. so hopefully the ratings will rise.

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I agree with you. When episode 1-3 aired, I was among those that skeptical due to all negative reviews it had. I guess, with many small cracks this drama showed in earlier episodes resulted in sad rating.

I am glad now the drama is getting the buzz (internationally), and who knows the buzz might reach local audience? *tho it should be the other way around*

Well, all we can do now is to enjoy the drama, and also Lee Junki^^

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If you mean the hate on IU, I think it's exaggerated.

It's true that Moon Lovers turned in lower than expected ratings for the 1st episode despite all the hype and promotion. However, the score of 7.4% is just a marginal 1% lower than Moonlight Drawn By Clouds and very similar to Monster's debut of 7.3%. What is different is that Moon Lovers tanked after the screening of 1st & 2nd ep whereas MDBC doubled its ratings and Monster has been demonstrated a more typical pattern ever since.

Viewers just didn't like what they saw in those first two or three eps.

Let's see if they will give the drama a chance because show did get better last week.

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I think Moon Lovers ratings might go up because more people seem to be interested in. It surpassed Moonlight in contents power whatever ratings-measuring the one most talked about (1.Moon Lover, 2.Moonlight, 3.Infinity challenge, 4.W)

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Welcome to the LJK club! I've been his loyal fan for a decade now :) I hope you stick to the man, as he is a superb actor! <3

Lee Joon Gi fighting!!

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I would say rating for Moon Lovers will rise.

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I hope you have your words will come true. Gosh, the drama is getting better starting from episode 4.
I was anticipating this drama starting from the announcement all because of Lee Jun Ki.
Though I admit the first 3 introductory episodes were far from stellar, they also are not as bad as some painted them to be.
I really hope it will pick up the ratings (though I keep saying I couldn't care less about it) because LJK and his fantastic performance need a big hit and the fact Scarlet Heart really has so much to offer, it is a shame that many choose to not appreciate it simply because of the less impressive introduction.
Imo, i would prefer a drama that off to a slow start and pick up the momentum and getting better rather than a drama that fizzle towards the end like a flatten hot air balloon.

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Cough....W....cough cough.

Man... that's W story. it started sooo good and it just wen downwards T_T. From the moment the girl's father's face disappeared... I dunno... it just felt sooo ridiculous and incoherent. Ugh. It could have been a smart show... sadly... it disappointed.

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W IS a smart show, and so far everything hangs together. You do have to pay attention to every detail more than you would most Korean dramas, but so far everything makes complete sense to me. I honestly don't get all this negativity towards W.

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Same! I am one of the few that still loving W! And all that's been happening still makes sense to me!! Or maybe that's just me?? I don't know...but I will still list this drama as one of the best in my book!

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Writer Song just announced she will make her scripts for eps 1-15 available, so that people can understand what is going on by reading them slowly, because people might have felt lost by watching fast moving 1 hour in airing.

btw Lee Jong-seok just had his successful fan meeting and I wonder why he invited Yoon Kwon-sang among all his friends -maybe Yoon was in the most recently ended dramas???

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well, I dont put attention that much for rating, though the show review always come first for selection-at least for me. So many people talk about moonlight (it is a good show BTW), is it only me who likes Second Last Love? I think it is a good show, but suffering for low rating?

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Rating for STLL actually quite decent since SBS weekend dramas always a flop. I will start watch it again since I love the casts.

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8% ratings seems good and I'm also watching the show.

It might not suit most of peoples need of fresh faces but i'm pleased with all the conflict and fight between Main characters. And that 35 years old sister is cute.

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I really hope pre production become a norm so the actor can prepare their beat on delivering their line than just after a day worth of reading.
In the other hand, the pre produced drama doesn't show what they capable of with all this time and believe that being accessible and lot of promo picture will always guarantee success. It still depends on the product.

It's like a restaurant, there's rumor that Restaurant A has a great food and you get let down for 3 times and Restaurant B rumoured to have a good food and you liked it at the 1st try.
You may gonna stick to Restaurant A because you knew the chef trust heim/her, you may be still wait in line cause you like that last 5 minutes when the chef sung in an hour course or you think that the food is gonna be your favorite if they somehow cooked it properly.
But other person also simply want to eat a satisfied food and the emotional+physical payoff when the food is nice, the menu become more varied, you grow attached to the cute waitress that always take your order.
People want justification for their choice and if they already let go of 3 choices, I don't think it's out of the norm to let go cause they may prefer another restaurant who will give them the feeling they want, besides, don't we all go for the food? Do we really eat there just confirm our friend to eat at that restaurant so they can acclaimed our excellent choice? Do we eat because everyone is there or be the special snow flake?
We can't force our taste cause everyone has tongue so yeah I find supported what you like and honestly tell others why you like it will also help the publicity, put down others will only make people avoid both.

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I think in the case of some recent Korean dramas, pre-production is over-estimated. Whether pre-produced or live shooting, the production still has a tight schedule/deadline to follow. It doesn't mean the actors or actresses, or the production crew have unlimited time to shoot their scenes. It also doesn't necessarily mean that the scripts are ready way before the actors get them for their scenes. From what I gathered from fans' accounts, the production is still subject to a gruelling shooting schedule with little sleep for the actors/actresses. There are reports that the actors/actresses are exhausted from long hours of overnight shoots. And with the rush to get the finished drama to the authorities for approval, I wonder if they really had a lot of time for post-production.

Of course, it's probably worse for live shoot dramas, especially towards the 2nd half of the drama when the production is behind time and is trying to play catch up to meet broadcast deadlines. I have noticed for most live-shoot dramas, their first few episodes are usually okay because generally, a drama starts shooting a couple of months before it airs. It's the 2nd half which shows a deterioration in quality.

Regarding the restaurant analogy where "there's a rumor that Restaurant A has a great food and you get let down for 3 times and Restaurant B rumoured to have a good food and you liked it at the 1st try.". Well, SH sure ain't Restaurant A because way before SH aired, the k-netz bashed the drama and its actors & actresses like crazy. And considering the low premiere ratings, there sure weren't many customers waiting in line.

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I just make analogy about the same rumour and their impact,
that no matter how much people said,
the old theory of satisfied + chance is actually still mattered, not really about the SH vs MLT

but let's try with that if we want to compare to SH,
I am so sorry, my personal experience saw that Knetz bashed it after it aired ,
and Scarlet Heart actually uploads their highlight clips while it aired so it garners comment a lot since they do upload it before the drama even completed,

and before . . I've seen lot of people pray so Reply curse don't happen since ML will just make people throw their white towel and no one really counter attack that argument, especially MLT is promoted as the teen's romance and SH 15 minutes trailer is like blockbuster with tons of pictures and promo,
even until now, they always dominate Naver TV with 8 videos in the top 10, they had stronger and a lot of active fans for the drama or the individual actors with wide local and internatinal popularity, who doesn't recognise them in SK or as Int- drama viewer

I don't mean to badmouthing SH if it sounds like it but I never saw SH is an underdog in many ways because they just don't and the rumor for the pilot is great.

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In another post, I waxed on about pre-produced versus live-shoot dramas, and whether or not they affect the performances of the actors/actresses...

But Jan, thanks for enlightening me here to the fact that it is equally exhausting for actors in either shooting scenario, and that both types experience a "dubious" future--i.e., pre-produced dramas either sink or swim due to the expectations/reactions of viewers, cos they can't change anything anymore. But live-shoots have a dubious future just the same, cos their flexibility to change doesn't guarantee how successfully they can manage viewer expectations and turn around things that are going sour.

And, like you mention, both of them get a head-start, but it doesn't translate into much of an advantage, cos there are still tight deadlines to cater too. I'm just amazed whenever I come across a cohesive story that goes where the writer initially intended, is executed well, and delivers a convincing suspension of disbelief into an alternate reality that is dramaverse.

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Scarlet Heart fighting!!! I hope those in Korea will realize your awesomeness this Monday next episode and so forth! So-Soo fighting!!! I really hope you get a happy ending!!!!

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Awwww, I'm just so glad for the Moonlight team!! What a surprise these last few weeks were!! Hoping they'd pass that 20% mark and make good on their promise to have a fansign at Gwanghwamun in costume. Sad that I just left Seoul and won't be there to witness it.

Also rooting for the last finale week of W. I hope they finish with a bang!

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I feel bad for the cast of ML especially LJK. Ratings hurt the actors more especially for a pre-produced drama that already gained profit even before it aired, so there's money for the network no matter what.

To think that ensuring the quality of the cinematography/editing and music is kind of an advantage of pre-produced dramas, that is exactly where they failed. Especially if we compare the production quality between ML and Moonlight, Moonlight is doing an absolutely wonderful work which makes the difference so obvious.

In addition, everyone in Moonlight is spot-on in their acting. On the other hand, ML is getting criticisms because of IU and other members for their acting. I personally think that IU is an okay actress and she does not deserve the blame for ML's low ratings.

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That's the point! All the things that were wonderfully done at Moonlight - cinematography, editing, music and acting, made Moon Lovers look far worse than it actually is.

I am watching both shows and maybe that's what the Koreans are doing too. Comparisons are inevitable. I kept thinking how did Moonlight achieve such results with a presumably smaller budget. At the same time, I wondered how Moon Lovers botched it up big time with a bigger budget and pre-produced at that!

Moon Lovers's overall score for acting is again unfortunate compared to MDBC. It does looked like they get all the criticisms while viewers are going crazy over Park Bo Gum and Kim Yoo Jung.

Now I am thinking if Moon Lovers didn't go head to head with MDBC, it might actually do better.

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I think its pretty clear to everyone that moon lovers botched up the post production. But i will disagree that Moon lovers is losing out to moonlight on the acting score. That is an over reach by a very very long stretch.

PBG and KYJ are both good and they have this amazing fan following because of both their work and their off screen personality. Plain and simple, they are korea's darlings. But I'm not buying that they are leaving Moonlovers in the dust with their acting. They are nowhere close to LJK or KHN level.

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I've watched both and no. They are not better. LJK and KHN are trying their best, but to no avail. It would be fair to say PBG and KYJ's acting are on par with them. But the rest of the cast from Moonlight act well too, while in Moon Lovers except for LJK and KHN the rest are very mediocre. I'm surprised no one mentioned Hong Jong Hyun and his god-awful acting.

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I disagree that PBG and KYJ acting is on par with LJK and KHN. They are good but definitely nowhere near the level of those two veteran actors. I think it's just that they both have great chemistry together, coupled with lots of cutesey banters and Koreans love that a lot and like @Bips99 mentioned, they are the Korean darlings and the director played that card well too.

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I think I phrased that wrong. I don't mean that they are equal overall in acting, but in this situation, the acting of the 4 of them in their respective dramas is on par with each other with what has been shown so far.

I haven't been wowed to the point of disbelief by any of their acting yet. But I can acknowledge the 4 of them are very good. Yet none have leave a particular impression on me to be ranked higher than the others.

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Thing is, Moonlight has so far delivered balanced acting. PBG and KYJ are anchoring the show, but the rest of the cast are pulling their own weight. The directing works well with the acting, so any shortcomings are covered up.

Moon Lovers, otoh, has pretty green actors working alongside LJK and KHN (who are amazing, no arguments there). Their shortcomings are emphasized because of the PD's obsession with extreme closeups. IU isn't bad, but the directing isn't doing her any favors.

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tbh SC will do better on wed-thurs even if most saeguk is on monday,

the thing is we have to understand how people watch Scarlet Hearts 2nd ep after Moonlight 3rd ep and Monster 15ep?
or how the original fans gets confused by the 1st week when the trailer greatly resemble the original...
and for acting, I somehow agree,
everyone in Moonlight show what they capable of and their teamwork in the act is connected, the synergy between cha tae hyun surprise cameo to the funny eunuch and the sad king is reflected by other character when they interacted, being together make them better and you can't really paused the conversation,
sorry to said but in Moon Lovers, it seems like when I see the good in others I also noticed how unfitted the other is, because other is really good, the other doesn't react in a proper way, even until this week ep,
and idk but I feel like I've seen LJK being that character in his other drama, not like really a copied of that but we knew he is good at that and we get it, then I am quite surprise at the cheeky PBG in Moonlighy 1st ep, it's like "he is interesting".

It really weird that I find the rating for ML is the simple demand and supply, people demand good drama but they don't do good at 1st week so the demand stopped,

They supply the bloody LHK but the pepple already tamed by that, saeguk usually is that way,
QSD, TMTETS, DJG, Empress Ki, SFD even royal gambler and many others shed blood and foundation for darker saeguk on their 1st week.
It doesn't shocked to have saeguk starting with bad boy and dark past mystery,

in the other hand, MDBC try the fun way and it appreciated, that's all.

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@Sancheezy, we can all argue either way depending on which show we love. You say dark and bloody sagueks are done before, whats new? I can argue that cross dressing has been done countless times, whats new? Same old same old.

As for LJK, if there is something i like about him, its that he is never the same in two sagueks. This is probably his darkest, most intense, boderline brutal character i have ever seen. I don't find anything repetitive about him here. he is absolutely charismatic onscreen.

And synergy, everything is gelling well. No one denies that the first episode was patchy but who is not acting well now? The actors who play HS, WY, YH, the king, the queens, Lady Hae ? Who ? Everything is coming together nicely.

I had thought not to fall into this 'which show is better' thing again because we have already hashed it to death but I guess its become unavoidable to compare the two shows no matter how unproductive that is. because If someone says moonlovers lacks in the acting department then i'm going to argue :)

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I agree that they are the same old trope, but the fun and lighthearted saeguk in the 1st week is less by the number than the serious saeguk.

I choose the acting as the teamwork and didn't see as an individual performance, and here we compared just the aires ep and not the potential for later, yes one thing can changed later. I just want to share my view that is the same with ET above.
The variety of expression showed by the whole cast by Moonlight esp on their 1st week is better and I find there's shocked valued in PBG performace in Moonlight than LJK, not based on skill but by character description.
I am sorry if you find this is like I praise MDBC in high heaven but I just said they are fun, esp for their own audience.

@Dell I didn't said LJK played the similar role but the gravitate of his dark side is not a new thing to expect and didn't take people by shocked about the series but more about him.
This is just my opinion and I may be wrong next week but I don't mean to write this so I can compliment my favourite, I just show that they are different but viewer will mostly have different experience than the people who already set to watch a drama and they also need to choose one, doing what they usually did or watch a drama.

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I agree that both Moonlight and ML offer nothing new. We've seen the likes of both dramas before. It all comes down to how well it is executed and how viewers connect with the show and the characters.

LJK and KHN are good, as well as the other characters. However, the Korean viewers have issues against IU and her acting as well as the other princes (e.g. BB, NJH) and they focus on those which led them to switch to other shows. I've read comments of viewers wanting to stick to the show for LJK, but they get turned off when IU or the other princes are on the screen. I personally think it's crazy to focus on the issues with the acting of the younger princes because they do not have that much screen time so far anyway.

Moonlight cast, on the other hand, is not necessarily better, but there are no issues in the acting, not even of the small side characters. Viewers were initially skeptical about Jinyoung and thought he'd be the weak link because he's an idol, but then he turned out to be doing really well in his role when the drama aired.

In the end, the way viewers see it is that Moonlight cast is spot-on (no one is awkward/falling behind), while ML has some members with noticeable sub-par performance and that affected their choice. I personally think the hate that IU gets is harsh and the acting of the younger princes could be overlooked.

I'm not commenting to say which is better because I think that is based on one's preference. I'm just sharing the comments of the viewers which is connected to this ratings post.

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Though they are both saeguks, they are actually of different genre.

When you mentioned that MDBC try the fun way, please remember that it is based on manhwa and it's a light-hearted teen-romance saeguk when mentioned the word "teen", bloody hero is out of the picture.

And the point that I totally disagree is when you mentioned about LJK playing similar character because as someone who has watched all of his dramas (except Hero), I can say that despite the many saeguks that he has done, Wang So is so far the darkest and most intense character he has ever played and what you commented are only based on the introductory episodes, the many layers of his character are still yet to be fleshed out.

At the end of the day, it's down to preference. You enjoy Moonlight and you can see all the things that worked for you on the show. I am sorry but I can't compliment the show the same way that you did - generally I am tired of all those cute banters and cross dressing redux.

I am obviously on team Scarlet Heart and while it's sad that they botched the introductory episodes, I am happy that the drama is setting its momentum from episode 4 onwards and I like it that it is getting better and despite that I have watched the original C-version, pretty much nothing is predictable and I am intrigued and fully on board for the rest of the journey.

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Amen for those very wise word! :)

and I am SO tired of cross-dressing redux as well. My god...

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I'm dropping JI like hot potato. No one gonna convince me, that it's interesting drama. No interest in picking up W, after episode 5-6 either. I will now question everything, that is getting raw review and always give a good chance to heavily criticized dramas. My Wend-Thus timeslot is free again.

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People keep saying ML already made a big profit, but what I heard is it spent $15M for production and sold it to China for $8M and had to recoup the rest from other foreign sales and ad sales in Korea. I don't know whether they have done so already or not. Does anyone have more information?

To me it's clear that they wanted to please their biggest customer (China) from the start. So if their side-lined customers don't find it as enjoyable, what can they do but just lie in the bed they made? Just enjoy what you enjoy and stop whining about the ratings. Nothing anybody can say will change other people's mind or taste.

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They have recovered profit is a way of reassuring each other. The actors are Koreans. Even if it does not impact their credibility as actors for example Lee Jun Ki, it does hurt their marketability to a certain extent. IU, Baekhyun are singers who will at their worst as a fall out from the poor performance of the drama will not take anymore acting jobs for now or a long time. But the actors will get hurt to a certain extent. Look at Hyun Bin, he is keeping away from dramas after his multiple personality disorder drama disaster. That hurts in turn us viewers who wish to see them on dramas. So contrary to whatever fans if the show suggest, the outcome won't be nice following this disaster. At least UF had a decent ending and tied the loose ends perfectly despite being a trainwreck for most parts. I am more scared for ML, it has lost a huge number of audience and any more loss will be a death sentence for this drama.

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The $8m was from the China market only. The drama is also being simultaneously broadcasted in Japan, Hongkong, Singapore and in other few countries. Whilst the production company has also earned revenue from these broadcasting nations in on top to their $8m earnings from China & yet to be determined income from Korea, they can also potentially sell this drama in other markets, plus the reruns.

Take note, DOTS was only sold to China for $250m per episode bit ML was for $400m per episode.

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If i'm not wrong that Moonlovers is just a more than one year production drama they realese about the cast and all after IU phedopil lolita scandal in early 2015 and it's been forever they reales yummy teaser picts, video teasers , articles about bla bla bla the high budgets drama, preproduced, the investors, universal studio , and whatover then the rattings just BOOOMMMB so low for all the media playing and with so many cast like this!

Wow I thought Scarlet heart will became hits like The heirs because the bunch of pretty people's, fan service but no, too bad it's not Kim eun sook writter-drama!

Yet it's not a High school dramas for the god sake! it's certainly weird seeing a saeguk with bunch of pretty people it's looks unreal and non sense at all because the carm of saeguk is the veteran actors that not to young and all handsome and have that saeguk vibe and all, saeguk drama with many pretty young actors it's a bad ideaaa can't take it seriously other than fanservice only

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So much trash talk but ML is good. The rating will pick up. Scandal involvements of casts idols may have caused the rating in the first episodes of drama but you can't beat good drama plus the combined great acting skills of Lee Joon Gi and Kang Haneul.

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Yes. Just because he's criticising the drama means he's trashtalking. No the reason the rating is bad was because of the first 3 awful episodes, not because of the scandal.

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I thought the ratings were bad from the start? And no, the first 3 episodes were not awful.

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Does that not sound like trash talking Scarlet?

And to think the completely plot-less The Heirs still get high ratings, even picking up and passed 20% even when the drama still off to no direction really amazed me on what is appealing and what is not?

So to speak, rating is just about preference, not much can be derived over how good the drama is.

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No that does not sound like trash talking. OP already stated that The Heirs was also reek with fanservices and pretty people, but Moon Lovers isn't a high school drama so the same formula won't work.

And tbh it's true that the first 3 episodes of Moon Lovers were bad and fanservice-y. It's just an observation.

While I agree with you that rating can't determine how good the drama actually is, there must be a reason why a drama obtained its own rating. And it's not always about preferences.

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I saw the first 3 episodes of Moon Lovers and disagree that they were bad and am 99.9999% certain there was no fanservice in Eps 2 & 3. And it's always about preferences.

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Gosh! I never understand why all the people talking about how low beautiful mind's are cause I never watch it may be cause of low rating but now I watch Scarlet heart I understand them

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Last season just ended was drama overload for me - there were 4 or 5 shows on my must watch list. This season.. not so much. In fact I have zero on my must watch list. One of the most blah seasons for a while.

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After reading regarding Cinderella. Thank you. I will be skipping these two episodes until next week. I can caught up with Nirvana with fire as I am on episode 41 instead tonight. ☺️

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I would watch the last 20 min of ep10.

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High or low ratings... "Moon Lovers" is the show I'm watching the first on Mon-Tue... and "Moonlight" is slowly losing me...

I actually think that none of the two shows is better or worse than the other... but my heart goes to the Heart ( ;--) )

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I never used to pay attention to ratings since I'll always watch what I wanna watch regardless of how well shows are doing in Korea. But the ratings for Moon Lovers are so sad... I had high expectations of this series since I loved the source material and the original production. With this adaptation, the cast, and the fact that it's pre-produced, I'd thought that it would be one of those series that would be a ratings giant straight out of the gates. Never did I anticipate it would tank since the trailers created the buzz in Korea and China, and I thought those were well done. So, I was super surprised when it did so poorly from the get-go, and utterly disappointed and flabbergasted that they had to churn out the "director's cut" version for the first three ep's! You mean you spent all that time editing during pre-production period only to not present viewers with the bear version possible?! What's up with that??? Now, I wasn't that critical when I watched the initial ep's that aired since I really like the cast. So, I was really not expecting the backlash and harsh comments towards IU and Baekhyun. But I just felt the production crew underestimated the audience and thought they could just ride on the coattails of the original C-drama in terms of popularity. I really hope for the cast's sake that they will do a better job from now on. I feel like they lost their chance already and seriously feel bad for LJG and the rest. I want them to succeed with this show, and they have to suffer these low ratings as a result of the team's lack of care and attention.

Moonlight is much better in production quality in comparison even though it's a live-shoot series. My love for PBG and KYJ is the same for LJG et al. So, I'm enjoying both dramas and I have no issue that it's got such a high jump in ratings from week 1 to week 2. I'd admit I didn't think it would win the ratings race against Moon Lovers and thought that it would be even at best. So, when I saw the numbers, I was momentarily surprised, yet I understood why. Compared to Moon Lovers, Moonlight is just better put together. With likable leads, good pace of plot, great OST, everything gels together. Also, there is no choppiness in the editing and no confusion about what is happening. In contrast, I just feel that if people never had any knowledge of the original Scarlet Heart, they'd be so confused what is going on and might find it hard to follow, get invested, and keep tuning in. Anyway, I do hope the ratings can go up for Moon Lovers since the current numbers are just painful to see. But if Moonlight continues to stay ahead, I wouldn't be surprise either. The Moon Lovers team obviously took its potential competition too lightly.

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Cinderella is just a mindless watch for me. The plot has deteriorated since more focus shifted to HJ and you got HM moping around trying to figure out his feelings. But I'll keep watching anyway for JIW and PSD, and I hope AJH will bring back some of his character's initial attractiveness to viewers. Not his fault when the writing is so poor. At least Bodyguard Lee and LJS's SW continue to be great side characters.

Just started on Fantastic and still need to catch up on the latest ep's. I'm enjoying it so far with the balance of comedy and emotional moments. Glad it seems to be doing well.

For W, I'm just anticipating the wrap-up and that's it. Interest of beanies in this series has waned from what I can gauge here with the number of comments on recaps. But I still like it and think it's one of LJS's best works.

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Your comment about W is true! Hahaha! In the first 6 or so episodes, the comments reached around 300 during the first 1-3 hours since the recap has been posted and would usually end with around 800+ comments before the new week starts. However, now it takes way more hours (even days) to reach that number. Episode 15 now is only in 300+ comments. I am also waiting for the last episode just to see how it ends.

I acknowledge the attempt of the writer for something amazing, but the story lost steam in the latter episodes. I was surprised to learn that the ending was not decided until around last week. I thought the writer had it all figured out even though all the scripts were not ready when they started. I had this thought that maybe the writer was able to write the scripts for the first 6 or so episodes (because they were the ones that are tight in terms of plot) and she was only figuring out how the story will develop for the latter episodes; hence the faltering plot. Still, congrats to W for keeping their spot in the ratings and the interest of the Korean viewers. They still like it very much.

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Oops... Typo in the first post. Should be "best" version possible, not "bear"! LOL Didn't notice and can't understand the autocorrect.

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I'm currently enjoying Fantastic right now! Not sure though if they'll be able to maintain that 2% rating once K2 starts. I anticipate that tvN's new drama will hit them real hard. But hopefully, JTBC won't give up in producing dramas. I'm liking their Drama line up this year (with the exemption of Madame Antoine). Beside, among the four general cable networks, only JTBC had produced their drama this year. What's happening to the other three?

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Honestly, I enjoy Moon Lovers more than Moonlight Drawn by the Clouds. Maybe it's an age factor? Don't get me wrong Moonlight is extremely cute but I feel lack it's lacking in substance and more aimed at teens and early twenties. I hope Moon Lover's ratings go up, I am in awe at the cinematography, every scene is just gorgeous! I am just worried that they won't make money on it??? seeing as it is such a high budget drama, I would hate to not see the same standard shown on Moon Lovers on other dramas in the future.

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I disagree as someone who is in late 20s, I am more invested in the characters and the story in Moonlight. Everything in this show is on point( Cinematography, acting, directing,editing, ost) while Moon Lovers has yet to click with me. The only compelling character imo is 4th Prince when the focus is on him I am actually interested, Hae Soo to me feels ornamental, Hae Soo and 8th Prince romance makes me roll my eyes, and the other Prince's are fast forward worthy. The writing and directing is not strong enough. It didn't leave a good feeling to me that a preproduced drama that had months to fix any problems had to re-edit their first three episodes, that screams janky mess to me.

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