Joseon Gunman: Episode 3
by javabeans
Joseon Gunman continues to deliver just what I want. That’s an interesting thing because you would think that getting exactly what you wish for could be something of a letdown when you know what’s going to happen—we’re still establishing conflicts and heading toward revenge motivation. But in the way that a good romantic comedy can still be wholly satisfying despite the fact that you know the ending from the start (you know, the part where the couple ends up together), this drama hits all the right notes for me.
Plus, the arrival of a charismatic second lead adds a nice dose of cute (for us) and angst (for our hero), just as the romance really gets sparking for our main couple.
SONG OF THE DAY
Bubble Sisters – “달픈” from the Joseon Gunman OST. There’s no perfect translation of the title, but it’s something like “sadly yearning,” evoking a feeling of heartache. [ Download ]
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EPISODE 3 RECAP
We resume at cliff’s edge, where Yoon-kang and Soo-in are cornered by the gun-toting assassin, aka Merchant Choi Won-shin. They hand over the book to save their lives, and Yoon-kang insists that they have nothing to do with its contents; their only role was to play courier. Choi Won-shin pockets it, but aims his gun at them anyway—no need to keep them alive.
Perhaps it’s naive to think handing it over would spare them, but realistically they have no choice. It would be just as stupid to hold out on principle and get shot, with the book stolen in the end either way.
Yoon-kang leaps in front of Soo-in, just as an arrow flies into a nearby tree. Phew! Dad has arrived, and Choi Won-shin turns to find a small army at his back. Yoon-kang lights up to see his father, who orders Choi to put down his weapon.
Choi Won-shin assesses the situation and eyes the steep drop-off to the water below. Pretending to comply, he slowly lowers his gun, and then makes a break for the ledge.
Park Jin-han gives the order to fire, but their arrows whizz by as Choi Won-shin jumps into the water. Park thinks fast and leaps off the cliff in pursuit.
Both men survive the fall and swim to shore, where they continue the chase on foot. Choi Won-shin has enough of a head start to take a clear shot at Park, but his opportunity is ruined by a waterlogged shell, thank god, and finally Park Jin-han catches up to him in the woods. They freeze as they come face to face, then slooooowly reach for their weapons, old-fashioned-duel style.
They act simultaneously: Park Jin-han grabs his sword, while Choi Won-shin reloads quick as a flash and fires. The bullet hits Park in the arm, but he’s able to fling his sword to get Choi in his arm. But Choi flees while he has the opening.
As Park Jin-han is being treated, he hears the story from Yoon-kang and Soo-in. He doesn’t question Yoon-kang’s explanation that (s)he’s a drinking buddy of his, which earns him a glare from her but seems the least suspicious way to answer that question.
As soon as Yoon-kang’s out of earshot, however, Park addresses her as Soo-in and chuckles that she’s bolder than she looks. He advises her to change into lady’s clothing before going home, where her parents will be worried, and also provides her with an excuse to account for her overnight absence: She was at the bureau being questioned about Teacher Hyun Am.
She’s mortified at being caught in such a blatant lie, but Yoon-kang tells her not to worry about it. He does remark that it’s unlike his father to be so considerate, but Soo-in chides him about not recognizing his father’s character.
As expected, the household is in an uproar and her mother is ready to deliver a thunderous punishment. Soo-in insists on the story Park Jin-han provided her, promising that he’ll vouch for her, and eventually her mother accepts the explanation.
King Gojong receives the bad news that his last Kaehwa scholar has been eliminated. Park Jin-han vows to capture the gunman, which is of paramount concern because until he’s caught, the enlightenment faction will be silenced by fear. Exactly what the conservatives of Sugu faction want.
Choi Won-shin delivers Hyun Am’s book to Sugu leader Lord Kim Jwa-young (who, by the way, isn’t to be confused with Minister Kim Byung-je, who is one of the top state councillors in Gojong’s court). Lord Kim cackles as he skims through it, noting the revolutionary ideas that Hyun Am dared argue.
Minister Kim arrives to see Lord Kim, and Choi Won-shin greets him with immediate respect—these are people far, far above his status. He’s earned quite a bit of credit with Lord Kim for having successfully carried out the mission, although Minister Kim is less than pleased—Choi’s success highlights his own failure.
Minister Kim reports that Gojong seems unlikely to give up; in fact, he has given Park Jin-han more soldiers to command. Gojong is putting all his hope into Park to get to the bottom of these murders, which makes him the big thorn in their side. Lord Kim gives Choi Won-shin the order to kill Park next, then throws the book into the fire.
Park and his second-in-command discuss how the assassin knew where to assassinate the scholar, and deduce that they have a mole within their ranks. Phew, at least they’re aware.
Two young scholars meet in a quiet pavilion, but there’s little for them to do. This used to be the meeting grounds for dozens of them before the recent terror, but now everyone has been scared into holing up at home. As the two scholars decide to leave, one more arrives, saying, “Then that will be the end of Joseon.”
This is KIM HO-KYUNG (Han Joo-wan), who is greeted warmly by his friends. He has been living in Japan, but heard of Hyun Am’s assassination and hurried back home. Ho-kyung is undaunted by the threat and declares that they’ll have to keep meeting, and tells his friends to spread the word that he’s back—”and if they won’t come out, threaten that I’ll drink on an open tab in their name!” Ha.
Ho-kyung’s arrival (and his aura of confidence and command) breathes new life into his friends, who agree to make the rounds and pass along the message.
Soo-in loses herself in thought, recalling all those moments of consideration Yoon-kang showed her over their two-day adventure. She finds him loitering outside her quarters, and he sheepishly admits that he wanted to check that she was fine, given that they lost the book. She answers that it’s upsetting, but her teacher will understand that their lives are more important.
Soo-in is much warmer toward him today, and even playful as she teases him for using an excuse to lurk around her quarters again. Immediately, Yoon-kang apologizes and turns to leave so quickly that she calls him back. She invites him to look around at the curios, like the globe and telescope parked in the yard.
Soo-in thanks Yoon-kang for his help, which puts an adorable smile on his face. He assures her she doesn’t have to repay him, but then adds that there might be a way, if she insists…
But that suggestion is cut short by the maid’s excitement at a guest’s arrival—and in walks Ho-kyung, who greets her familiarly and has Soo-in brightening up with a happy “Oraboni!”
Suddenly Yoon-kang finds himself the frowning third wheel, trailing behind as the two friends catch up. Her parents have invited Ho-kyung to live here, as he once used to. With Yoon-kang using his old room, Soo-in suggests that he use the teacher’s old room. Ho-kyung was his best pupil, after all.
Ho-kyung extends a friendly hand to Yoon-kang, who shakes it with a forced smile. Oh, this should be fun.
Soo-in leads Ho-kyung into his new room, and as the door shuts behind them, Yoon-kang gets antsy. He huffs to himself at the impropriety, and especially chafes at her liberal use of the word “oraboni.”
That evening, Park Jin-han muses to his second-in-command (fine, let’s give him a name, Officer Moon) that they’re approaching the end of the sword’s usefulness, with the advancement in firepower sure to take over. “Either we abandon the sword,” he says, “or we die with the sword.”
Over at the Choi household, Hye-won asks her father not to go about too late at night, fearing for his safety with the gunman running loose. Choi Won-shin feigns ignorance as she explains the latest news and calls the military forces incompetent for letting the shooter slip through their fingers.
In the morning, Ho-kyung heads out early and asks Yoon-kang to pass along the word to Soo-in. Yoon-kang agrees, but mutters jealously over the guy’s free use of her name. So when Soo-in’s maid comes running up asking for “young master,” Yoon-kang snaps that he just left. The maid clarifies that Soo-in wants to see him, and he breaks into a smile. So cute.
Soo-in has come up with an idea to repay him, and looks mighty pleased with herself as she tells him of the solar eclipse tonight. “I’ll show you something truly wonderful then,” she promises. Why do I have the feeling they’re thinking two different things?
Then she clarifies that the night sky will be completely dark and her fireworks display will be amazing, and his face falls a little. Haha. She invites his sister Yeon-ha along, but he invents an ailment to keep her out of it, looking forward to the outing being just between the two of them.
Of course, when it’s time to set out, he finds grumpy Yeon-ha glaring at him for trying to leave her out. Off they go on their excursion—Soo-in cheerful, Yeon-ha cranky, and Yoon-kang trying to smooth over ruffled feathers.
As they leave the house, Choi Won-shin’s assassin watches intently. Ruh-roh.
The drawing of the dead assassin (who was murdered while in prison) brings in a man who recognizes him as a traveling peddler named Jong-tae. Ah, well the peddling would explain his link to Merchant Choi. However, the informer knows Jong-tae to have died five years ago, after being punished for brawling. Park sends Officer Moon to confirm the story.
The fireworks excursion hikes up to their destination, and Yoon-kang offers Soo-in a hand up the incline. I’m pretty sure it’s accidental that she ends up in his lap, though I’m not sure he wouldn’t have planned it if he’d thought to.
They make it to a temple and offer up prayers, then sit by a creek to look over the view of the city from afar. Yoon-kang marvels at how small the city appears, and Soo-in adds that Joseon in its entirety is small as well. Not that she’s traveled throughout the country, but she’s seen the globe and understands that the world is much bigger. She was shocked when her teacher first showed her the globe, and that’s when she thought up the wish she prayed on at the temple: to travel all the way to the end of the sea.
Yoon-kang listens rapt as she explains that Joseon ladies can hardly even venture outside of the city. She says, “Rather than that kind of world, but one where a person can do anything—living in a world like that is my dream.”
Then she asks what his dream is, and he doesn’t really have an answer, having never thought about it. She encourages him to think of one now, and he takes a moment to think… and then looks at her with a bashful smile. But his answer gets cut short by his sister, who engages him in a water fight.
The siblings splash each other for a bit, before Yoon-kang persuades Yeon-ha to make this a family affair, and they turn on Soo-in.
And off to the side watches the shooter. His gaze settles on Yeon-ha.
Park Jin-han drops in on Choi Won-shin to ask about the peddler Jong-tae. Choi pretends to search his memory for the name, and says he heard the man died. Park Jin-han suggests that the man could have been saved, but Choi points out that interfering with a criminal’s punishment would endanger that savior. Nobody would dare do it.
Park presses that if someone were to have saved Jong-tae, well, that would have earned him Jong-tae’s undying loyalty, wouldn’t it?
Night falls, and Soo-in gathers her supplies to start the fireworks. She motions Yoon-kang close to watch her strike a match, which is such a startling sight that he falls back in alarm. The ladies laugh, then he watches as she lights the wick… which then fizzles out. In disappointment, Soo-in fusses over the fireworks while the eclipse nears its end, disappointed that it’s not working.
Yeon-ah has noticed the couple’s budding interest in each other, and decides to step aside to let her brother have some alone time, which is adorable. She fakes a cough and heads back to the temple with the maid. Yoon-kang can see that she’s acting for his benefit and smiles at her.
Yoon-kang suggests that perhaps the gunpowder got wet, and they scoop out the damp parts to give it another try. This time the wick ignites the powder, sending up sparks into the air.
They sit side by side watching the display, and he catches her stealing a glance at him. So when she looks away in embarrassment, he leans in drop a sudden kiss on her cheek. They look at each other, her surprised and him in anticipation of her response…
But then the maid comes running up to say that Yeon-ha has disappeared. She was faster than the maid in heading down to the temple, but never made it there.
They tear through the woods frantically searching for Yeon-ha, and that’s when Yoon-kang finds a necklace caught in some leaves. It’s that owl he’d carved for her, and he urges Soo-in to return home while he searches. She insists on staying, but her maid says they’ll slow him down, and she reluctantly relents.
Yeon-ha is still alive, kidnapped by the gunman and delivered to the assassins’ den in that cavern deep in the mountains. Choi Won-shin orders her kept alive until Park Jin-han is captured—she’ll be the bait.
Soo-in appeals to Hye-won for help, asking her to send a search party into the woods. Practical Hye-won says that they must wait until daylight and sends her home, assuring her that all will be well.
Yoon-kang desperately searches all through the night, to no avail. He finally returns home in the morning, exhausted and devastated, and Soo-in urges him to tell his father—she doesn’t think it’s a simple matter of Yeon-ha getting lost.
But Park Jin-han already knows, having received the kidnapper’s message. He’s given one order: Come out alone tonight, or his daughter dies.
He hides the note when Yoon-kang comes to see him, but slaps him across the face in anger, asking what the hell he’d been doing while his sister disappeared. Yoon-kang hangs his head, wracked with guilt, as his father says that this is why he’d hidden his children away, for fear that they’d come to harm.
Realizing that this is the work of men after his father taps into that long-held current of bitterness in Yoon-kang, who asks, “Are you going to do that again this time? Are you going to act as you did with Mother?” Ooh. So that’s the unspoken strife between them.
Yoon-kang insists on knowing where the meeting place is, determined to go himself instead of letting his father: “I’ll save her!”
Instead, Park Jin-han orders his son locked up until tomorrow, and Yoon-kang is dragged off screaming that he can’t let Yeon-ha turn out like his mother. Soo-in can only watch helplessly, her path blocked by a soldier.
A flashback to thirteen years ago fills in the blanks for us. A village is pillaged by invaders, and Yoon-kang’s mother hides him away in the crawlspace under the house, warning him to keep baby Yeon-ha quiet. She stands up to the bandits when they breach the house gate and gets dragged off while Yoon-kang watches in horror.
Word of his wife’s kidnapping reaches Park Jin-han while he’s out preparing for battle. The message is clear: Stop advancing his troops to spare his wife’s life. Young Yoon-kang begs him to comply—but to Park Jin-han, duty comes first.
Yoon-kang’s pleas now overlap with those of his childhood self, begging his father to stop what he’s planning, to think of his family first.
But Park Jin-han continues with his strategizing, determined to capture the gunman once and for all. Yoon-kang sits in his prison cell, lost in memories, thinking to the day his mother’s body was sent back and he’d accused his father of killing her. For what it’s worth, his father is devastated by the loss—but even so, I believe that he believes he did the right thing. Hence the family rift.
Yoon-kang hears Officer Moon nearby and begs him to let him go, demanding, “Do you wish to see that happen again?” Officer Moon pauses in his tracks and Yoon-kang entreats, “Please, don’t make me hate my father anymore. I hate it. I cannot stand any more of it!”
Officer Moon isn’t immune. He lets him out and apprises him of the situation: Yoon-kang’s father left alone for fear of Yeon-ha’s safety, and gave orders for his officers not to surround and charge the mountain until later. That’s why Officer Moon let Yoon-kang free, and he urges him to hurry and keep his father safe until they can arrive to back him up.
Soo-in is waiting at the gate and asks worriedly what’s going on. Yoon-kang tells her that he and his father are going to save Yeon-ha, and she grabs for his sleeve, not sure what to say but worried for his safety. He promises to come back with his family.
Park Jin-han makes the trek up the mountainside, where a passing traveler has a message for him: The meeting place has been changed. Ack! So that’s the trap.
Yoon-kang catches up to his father on his way back down the mountain, and refuses to be dismissed. Park orders him repeatedly to go, and finally draws his sword against him.
Uncowed, Yoon-kang challenges him to strike:
Yoon-kang: “If I must remain hidden this time as well, I will strike myself down! I watched Mother being taken away, hidden under the floorboards. In fear, all I did was watch, afraid of being caught! I cried without making a sound. That once was agonizing enough. If I must go through it again, I do not think I can bear it. I will go! That is the sword I was handed to protect Yeon-ha—have you forgotten?”
Park Jin-han lowers the sword. “Fine,” he relents. “Let’s go.”
At the new meeting spot, the gunman tells a gagged and bound Yeon-ha to observe how her father will die—charging him, only to be shot by a different gunman. That’ll be up to Choi Won-shin, who perches in a tree at a distance, awaiting his shot.
Meanwhile, father and son charge up the mountain, heading straight into the trap.
COMMENTS
Ahh, good stuff. I enjoyed just about everything in this episode, from the new arrival to the backstory to the growing understanding developing between father and son. Maybe the understanding is mostly on the son’s side, because he doesn’t quite see his father’s caring underneath the stern, principled exterior. It’s easy enough for us to see it—and for Soo-in—but Yoon-kang’s painful memories are understandably powerful enough to overshadow those signs of fatherly love.
I had expected something emotional in their past to explain why Yoon-kang seems to both respect and resent his father, and why he lives so frivolously, but even so I hadn’t expected it to be quite that much of a doozy. Letting your wife die for the sake of your cause is perhaps the kind of mentality that makes him a great military leader, and thus the king’s most trusted officer, but yeesh. It’s one thing to be a victim of a terrible injustice, but to know that there was a choice involved must be a crushing thing for a young boy powerless to fight or protect anybody.
I suspect that’s why he leads such an empty life, drinking and flirting and never once thinking of the world at large or things like dreams. Sure, there’s the part where he’s a handsome young man who enjoys fun, but I’d bet there’s a healthy (er, unhealthy) dose of stick-it-to-him mentality provoking his actions, like disappointing his father is his method of rebellion.
So I love seeing Yoon-kang concede that his father can be rather thoughtful, only to have his budding respect challenged once more by this kidnapping business. And this time he’s not a scared little boy too young to do anything about it—he’ll go out and be the man his father won’t be.
Which is why this is perhaps Park Jin-han’s time to reclaim that old wrong too. I do think he made that decision with full knowledge of what he was doing, and perhaps justified it as being necessary for the greater good. Don’t negotiate with terrorists, don’t give in to extortion, fight the good fight, yada yada. But maybe this time there’s room for him to be a father as well as a commander, and off he goes to make the noble sacrifice.
I’m so onboard this romance (they are so winning together, and despite the string of criticism in the comments, I love Nam Sang-mi in this character) that it’s almost too bad that Mr. Second Lead makes a rather late appearance. It’s not too early that his presence doesn’t shake things up for Yoon-kang (which I love), who has to bristle at being outshined by the oraboni. It’s basically, Whaddaya mean, I’m not the prettiest anymore? Okay, maybe Han Joo-wan isn’t prettier than Lee Jun-ki, but given his charm, intelligence, and familiarity with Soo-in—not to mention sharing that streak of idealism and teacher worship—it’s certainly enough to put our hero on edge. But Ho-kyung doesn’t really have a shot with Soo-in anymore, so off he is, doomed to Second Lead Pining. There there. Let me comfort you.
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- Joseon Gunman: Episode 1
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Tags: featured, Joseon Gunman, Lee Jun-ki, Nam Sang-mi
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1 Sweetiehunnybee
July 2, 2014 at 8:24 PM
Thanks javabeans:))
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2 Kim Yoonmi (Surname first)
July 2, 2014 at 8:53 PM
The father is dead meat from the first time I set my eyes on him. Is it bad to say, "Just kill him already?" I'm also kind of tired of the "Must rescue women" trope that's being favored in this drama. Fridged women is the trope. I rather they *not* fridge the women and fridge the man instead--the father is a good enough reason and he could have died ten times over already.
So let's get this straight, set up a "strong female" character only to have her in the heat of the moment pushed aside for the Main Male lead and then fridge 2 women and then use the father for the "final straw" in a revenge quest. Why is it checking the boxes so neatly? Please surprise me. Please don't make me go, Ah, hitting another beat.
Let's get this straight, I love my shineh Sageuk, and I like the acting, but the writing is flat. There is a man and a woman screenwriting this... so why are the women getting fridged? Give them agency~~ I want Nam Sang Mi in the mountains with him, giving him *something* other than a love interest. She must have learned something from all those scholars.
If they fix those two things, it's a pretty good drama, but if you're looking for a Tree with Deep Roots type of thing, this isn't it. Arang and the Magistrate was more surprising in the first few episodes.
If you want easy eye candy to watch without thinking and start checking off which characters are slated to die in what order, then yes.
And no, I did not watch episode 4 as of this post, so this post is spoiler free. But it's pretty transparent.
That's my judgment of the drama. I'm borderline dropping it. I love Nam Sang Mi and Lee Joonki, the visuals, even the music (though cheesy in places such that it gives away the plot--the danso? reminds me a lot of Dae Jang Geum though), the acting is ringing true, but the writing... *cries in corner* Don't waste the pretty with flat writing please. This made me drop other sageuk in the past I wanted to like.
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Lin_K
July 2, 2014 at 9:41 PM
It's too early to say that Soo In won't be helping Yoon Kang to accomplish his goals; or to emerge as a strong/productive/independent woman. It's only episode 3. If the official stills are true to the story, Soo In is also going to be modernized and will come out of her sheltered self. Right now, she is a sheltered noble girl who does not have to do much other than look pretty, read, and get married. [Even then she did dress up as a guy and go on a dangerous mission to deliver the book.] When new changes come, she will be changing too. There are 17 episodes to go and lot of room left for character development in my opinion.
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Kim Yoonmi (Surname first)
July 2, 2014 at 10:38 PM
I said this about Gu Family Book around this time too and people didn't believe me. I stated it around Episode 6 again and people didn't believe me. Then they believed me when the drama ended. I have a very good sense of a writer's caliber fairly early. It's one of my freaky gifts.
I *wanted* to like Gu Family Book but early into it I knew the writing wasn't going to be up to par despite the shineh.
The set up on this is that they are afraid to spend plot points early, such as the death of his father, because they are afraid to examine the father character in *post*. (For an example of this, you can see this with Sejong, done, brilliantly, where he argues with his younger self in one of the best things I've ever seen in Tree with Deep Roots.)
You can reveal a character in his death and the relationship in post too. They don't have enough set up to do that neatly. They'd have to force it which is going to be painful to watch.
They are afraid to spend plot points early, so that means that they don't allow the characters to grow, find their place in the world, and establish themselves. It also means you won't get any surprising twists later down the line, because they are afraid of doing everything too fast, which is kind of a death for a revenge plot, because you don't get to delve deeper into the emotional base when you limit the plot. You need gained speed to get the even gaining pacing down.
Even though I didn't particularly like Nice Guy, for not being my kind of drama, I did recognize that it did do this. Quick establishments of characters, and it made sure that plot points were not saved, which meant that the emotions came to the forefront faster.
It's the curse of the writer to be able to spot when other writers are pulling things they shouldn't be. So unless they let the flood gates open in say by the next episode, and stop saving plot points and stop limiting characters, the drama is going to suffer from some serious pacing issues which is a death in a revenge drama. (Count of Monte Cristo for a classic example). Pacing is about everything in a revenge drama because most of it rides on the suspense genre, the hold and the release and infuriating head spins. If you don't let the characters free, too, you also limit its ability to give moral dilemmas, emotional grays, and hook you with character hang ups and flaws, which are cornerstones of the revenge drama. It all feeds in together. That's why I'm picking on those two things so much, because I know how it fits into pacing.
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Lin_K
July 3, 2014 at 2:37 AM
I am gonna stay positive about JG!...................... The Count of Monte Cristo is one of my favorite classics :) Never thought it had any flaws. Then again, I'm not a critic of writing styles; so I enjoy a story if it makes sense, keeps me engaged, and makes me feel feelings :)
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cyrano
July 3, 2014 at 3:48 AM
The difference between Gu and JG is that Gu s*cked from the get-go (including universally lauded episodes 1 and 2), so people being surprised by its idiotic storyline was somehow mindboggling. Strong fandoms for the leads were the deciding factor for such a loyal following, but the "talent" behind that show was dismal, and anyone with a basic 2 second google search could realize that that drama would be a mess even before it had aired a single second.
I'm still with this drama, even if the strong similarities with The Princess Man are quite disappointing, as I wanted something completely different. However, in that drama the female lead was sort of an airhead too and then evolved into a great lady, so there's hope for this one's. I'm wary, and I may drop it later if it doesn't pick up steam, but it's not because of the main paring at all. I find the ~conspiracy~ too bland to justify a whole narrative for 20 episodes. It needs more spice, more players, more emotional stakes, more ambiguity.
We shall see.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 8:03 AM
Very true about the curse of the writer but the blessing of the reviewer is to be able to enter into a story with goodwill. I review so many books sometimes and I critique manuscripts. And the challenge is to always be open to a story no matter how many times you've seen a particular plot.
There are a few cliched plots that annoy the heck outta me and which I am impatient with. And then there are a few cliched plots that I am fine with. So i don't think it's a matter of cliches per se but what one is tolerant about because there really are just about 40 plots in all of literature and about the same amount of characters. There is nothing new in literature so if we find ourselves getting annoyed at a cliche we don't particularly like...we just have to either accept that it's just us or we have to allow each story to prove its own uniqueness in little or big ways.
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Kiara
July 2, 2014 at 10:37 PM
I feel your frustration but I didn't want the father to die in eps 2 because I think that means our couple will be separated too soon. The baddies will not leave Yoon-kang alone so he will have to flee.
I originally thought the revolution will be the cause of their separation but our charismatic 2nd lead Ho-kyung (the revolutionist) just made his first appearance and therefore its too early for that.
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Cheryl
July 2, 2014 at 11:05 PM
"There is a man and a woman screenwriting this… so why are the women getting fridged?"
Women are so very, very capable of sexism and misogyny. I catch my fellow femmes crediting moods to "She must be on her period" so often it's depressing, and the amount of slut shaming that goes on makes me want to smack some heads together. Fridging females? Par for the course. Females are *always* the expendable ones, didn't you know that? xp Women are always the ones who need to be rescued, too, because women are the 'delicate sex' who need assistance. We're less capable than men at life and handling things because women, in general and on average, aren't as physically strong as men, so that means we're weaker and more inferior to men in all ways, so we need men to save us, donchaknow.
If it makes you feel any better, the father bites it. So does the sister. :( Their deaths are the catalyst for why the main character becomes the Joseon Gunman of the title.
Right now, I like Soo-in. I like that she saw the globe and decided, "I want to sail to the end of the ocean". I like that she has a curious mind and enjoys using it. I like she speaks her mind and she has an adventuresome spirit. I sincerely hope she doesn't end up being a two-dimensional love interest who exists only to make the main character look good, because that would be a complete waste of what could have been a fabulously multi-faceted, intelligent, competent young woman capable of being a partner in crime to the male lead.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 12:12 AM
I find her a bit silly, but not entirely without potential. Indeed, the only moments I care about her is when she gets a bit more serious – talking about her dream, about what she believes in (enlightenment), etc.
I hope they'll make something of her (and soon). Like you, Kim Yoomi and others, I would hate for her to end up being only a love-interest, a narrative tool rather than a character of with her own worth.
It's early still, but not so early not to start worrying about this already. The next episode or two will be decisive I think, because if we don't get some clear signs soon, either she'll end up being a flat, predictable character. At the moment I'm still much more intrigued by the second female late.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 12:22 AM
sorry for the typos... need to stop writing comments while multitasking (or proofread).
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Cheryl
July 3, 2014 at 9:59 PM
Multi-tasking while on Dramabeans? Who does that? *looks around all innocent-like, whistling* ;D
Kiara
July 3, 2014 at 7:07 AM
Same reason why I'm so not into her but I like this episode especially when she started talking about her dreams. Finally! start acting like a scholar.
I hope their separation will make her character more interesting. I'd love to see her take her own path, perhaps an active part in this Enlightenment movement.
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Cheryl
July 3, 2014 at 9:58 PM
She has potential, and I want to see that potential realized. I'm still smarting from the wasted potential of the lead ladies in Doctor Stranger, and if they waste Soo-in here, that'll put me in a most foul mood.
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Pearl~ai88
July 3, 2014 at 12:26 AM
Wow. I'm kind of shocked there is such a strong reaction in a few of the comments against the "sexism" in this drama. It's no worse than any other k-drama I've seen, that's for sure! Of course there are a lot of familiar hero saving/protecting the heroine tropes, but I actually think they've done a really good job of representing Soo-in as an intelligent, resourceful, and brave person. She just happens not to be an action girl who can defend herself with a sword or a gun. Secondly, those things are tropes for a reason. Like it or not, men and women are actually different- both physically and emotionally. Most women are physically weaker than men and so might need protection in a physically dangerous situation. Not to mention we are in Joseon where women were still very sheltered and expected to be ladylike- it's unrealistic to expect Soo-in to have the same training as Yoon Kang. It doesn't need to be demeaning, it's just a fact.
Also, many women actually enjoy feeling protected and treated in a special way by their men, and I don't think that's a bad thing in any way. I hate it when women with a more traditional/feminine view of themselves and their roles are accused by feminists of not respecting themselves, being sexist against their own gender, and so on. Honestly being a wife and mother or feeling protected by a strong man are very natural desires driven by the biology and emotional makeup of a majority of women and they should be respected as ways a woman can feel fulfilled in her life. Of course these things do not apply to every single woman in existence, but a trope is by definition a generalization. TV Dramas are trying to entertain and appeal to a large audience and so these kinds of plotlines are here to stay. There's no reason to get upset, just acknowledge the limitations, enjoy it for what it is, and I'm sure you can find other media that represents different types of relationships and gender roles.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 1:01 AM
I don't expect Soo-in to have the same training as Yoon Kang, nor to do exactly the same things – but you can show strength in other ways too. Even without knowing how to wield a sword or ride a horse, she does not need to be a damsel-in-distress.
I don't agree that the "majority of women" simply want to be protected by a strong man and that this is a natural desire dictated by biology. Too me that's too much of a generalisation and a simplification. There's nothing wrong with feeling this way, but I think women (and men) are much more diverse in what they want and do, not just individually but also culturally.
<I’m sure you can find other media that represents different types of relationships and gender roles
Not nearly enough as I would like too. And certainly not in Asian (particularly K and TW) dramas, where these tropes with passive damsels in distress whose existence is exclusively defined by their hero have been done to death. (I'm not saying this is what will happen in this story.)
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windsun33
July 3, 2014 at 2:06 AM
For a while it seemed like we were getting real people in dramas, up to the latest season or two. The damsel in distress is so overdone in this and some other recent ones that I have dropped 3/4 of the shows that I started since Spring.
But this one drives me especially nuts. I felt like tossing large heavy objects at the screen every time she let out that little squeek "oh oh" or "oo oo". And she does that at almost every event - dropping something, seeing something (anything) - it is like she is in a constant state of surprise because she is like a goldfish any everything from more than 10 minutes ago is a surprise to her. (and who in the 1880's would scream at a rat when some guy with a gun is looking for you?).
CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 3:59 AM
The damsel in distress mght be overdone but in real life women are generally in distress and generally need rescuing from evil men. Just watching the news shows me how far the word has to go.
All that said, kdramas can overdo the damsel in distress thing definitely. But here I think the heroine works. Let us not forget that women back in the day were taught to sew, read, write, cook and take care of the household. They weren't generally taught to think philosophically or to go horse-riding. In fact, i think horse-riding females were generally looked-down upon. In short, women were trained to sit there and be pretty enough to get married. And let's not forget that this is a young girl. Let's not be unrealistic in our expectations about how such a character is depicted
Right now, we see that gunman villain treats his daughter with a great deal of enlightenment. And heroine's dad also allowed his daughter to learn a lot about life..but she doesn't wield power in the same way as villain's daughter does. So there are story elements being planted already which will blossom later.
In a story that is depicting the changes that come to an era, we need to see the era clearly.
alua
July 3, 2014 at 5:20 AM
<but in real life women are generally in distress and generally need rescuing from evil men
Huh? Maybe I'm not picking up the joke here, but, uuh.... noo.... My real world isn't that dominated by damsels in distress that need rescuing, sure there are some but...
As I've said, I think the heroine has potential. I understand she has certain limitations due to the time and her status in society, and she is showing some promise in some areas for sure. But I do find her a little silly at times and I could very much do without her constantly being surprised, which to me comes across as overreacting and too cute. I think she could be bubbly and spirited without being this cutesy person. Windsun's point about the rat is quite true – surely in the 1900s and in a fairly countryside setting, you'd be accustomed to seeing them? Unless she shrieked because she wasn't expecting to see anything (but then again, that's stereotyping – the woman has such a reaction, the man doesn't).
Anyhow, I haven't given up on her just yet.
Pearl~ai88
July 3, 2014 at 10:52 AM
I can respect that difference of opinion :) And you're right, it certainly is difficult to find more diverse representations in Asian dramas, which is kind of my point about the harsh criticism directed towards this particular drama. I presume you are a k-drama fan like the rest of us on Dramabeans and enjoy them a lot, so I'm not sure why you are jumping on the stereotypes here when imo it is actually doing a better job with presenting an interesting heroine than usual. There are certainly dramas with annoying and egregious representations of women, but this one isn't it- at least as far as I can tell this early on.
windsun33
July 3, 2014 at 2:15 AM
Just once in a Korean drama I would like to see a girl like Daenerys in Game of Thrones, who at two years younger than the lead girl in this show has conquered half of the known world.
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semigemi
July 3, 2014 at 6:33 AM
Dany didn't start like that though. She was a young girl sold into an arranged marriage by her brother. She didn't have power in the beginning.
I like Soo In, she's intelligent and she dreams big. Her wanderlust speaks to me. Just bc she's not an action girl, it doesn't make her a weak female character.
CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 7:04 AM
ooh, semigemi,
your comment about not being an action girl reminded me of this post made by a writer friend of mine.
http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/365305.html
windsun33
July 3, 2014 at 2:46 PM
I don't expect her to be like Dany. What grates on me in this and so many other distressed damsel tropes is that they are not consistent. One minute they are strong, next scene they are fainting at the sight of a bug or male bare chest.
It seems to be a standard in k-dramas that to be truly a "strong" female, you have to be an evil bitch also. Or even worse, you have to be a total idiot like the lead girl in Endless Love.
Chandler
July 3, 2014 at 2:24 AM
Thank you for writing this. It seriously saved me a lot of time because that is EXACTLY how I feel. That's not to say that I don't want more from our heroine, but considering the fact that the hardships have now begun to really get going, I think we can expect more from her and all the characters in the episodes to come.
I personally like when dramas take time to establish their characters, weaknesses and all, so we can get a sense of what growth is necessary for them in the future. Of course, it's possible that this drama will end up faltering there, but I think it's waaaay too soon to tell.
I also completely disagree with the idea that the writers don't have a handle on the trajectory for their characters. Princess's Man took a bit longer to establish it's romance and world before it launched itself into the romeo and juliet portion and I think it was the better for it. And I'm honestly starting to grow a bit fond of Soo-in's bubbly nature, I don't know why, but I'm more endeared to her than if she were just saying the "right" cool, intelligent things all the time. I loved hearing her dream, and I think she shows a very wonderful strength and drive and it's likely to only grow as she learns more about the world and how to operate it. Now, I'm not sure whether Joseon Gunman's writing is completely on par with Princess's Man so far, but I think it still has a lot of promise, as there are so many possibilities for it to head in in the future.
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mary
July 3, 2014 at 3:11 AM
Uhm... please don't post spoilers.
Thanks.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 3:15 AM
I don't think there's a spoiler. This information was released as part of the drama synopsis as far as I know.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 12:20 AM
What's "fridge"?
My BE and Google are failing me.
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semigemi
July 3, 2014 at 6:39 AM
It's a pop culture trope that got its name bc one of the Green Lantern's love interests was literally cut up and shoved into a fridge by a villain.
It refers to females being killed in fiction to further the male protagonist's angst.
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Amell
July 3, 2014 at 8:54 AM
Fridged is the trope name for killing a someone (typically a woman) to provide motivation for the hero (typically a man). It's all about their angst rather than the person who's just been murdered.
It originates from the comic book Green Lateran where the hero's girlfriend was literally killed and stuffed into a fridge to get at the hero but there's loads of examples of it throughout all forms of media.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 9:45 AM
Thank you to both semigemi & Patch!
Someone needs to add that to the Urban Dictionary!
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jubilantia
July 6, 2014 at 5:22 PM
No need! It's already on TV Tropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Just... bring a buddy; that site can suck you in for HOURS.
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windsun33
July 3, 2014 at 1:52 AM
I have to admit that I don't think I have gotten bored faster with any recent show than I have with this one. It is not just "flat", it is also a cliche recycle bin.
I see nothing interesting in this show that sets it apart from any other sageuk - bearded men in funny hats plotting, naive dumb girl that has to be saved by the spoiled brat nobleman..
i guess a lot like, but I am going to pass on this one.
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bluemoon
July 3, 2014 at 2:23 AM
I guess those "funny" hats were the main part of clothing in Joseon era. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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windsun33
July 3, 2014 at 3:28 AM
For the elites yes.
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Kiara
July 3, 2014 at 9:46 AM
"I have to admit that I don’t think I have gotten bored faster with any recent show than I have with this one."
Same here but there is still hope.
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kanz
July 3, 2014 at 3:21 AM
I also don't feel much from the writing and Soo In's character. As a character she still lacking. I don't know how to put it, but I think it's made sense now that you say about plot points and the writers afraid to get into the revenge plot soon. One of recent sageuk dramas, Empress Ki, got down into the business right after the first eps and plot sometimes get going really fast although it goes meandering in the second half. I think sageuk must be interesting first, before the pretty visuals, etc.
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Sue
July 3, 2014 at 2:20 PM
I think Empress Ki is one of those dramas that started fast and full force and then fell apart during the second half.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 3:49 AM
I always have this argument with some of my feminist writer friends. Some of us believe we should write what a woman "could be" and others -- the camp I fall into-- think we should write about what women endure now or have had to endure.
In this case, it feels right that women should be rescued. First because it's sajeuk but more importantly, because we're talking about enlightenment and equality. The writers have already planted the seeds of feminism, democracy, enlightenment...and maybe even atheism. So let's see how they play out the story before assuming they are falling into tropes.
If feminist writing writes only about bad ass powerful women, we are not discussing the experience of 70% of the women in the modern world. Sajeuk might be old for us but in many ways..women are still enslaved and put in lower class positions. Shouldn't we write about weak women as well? Shouldn't we write about stolen little girls as well?
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jomo143
July 3, 2014 at 5:52 AM
Oooh. Your last line gives me chills.
I guess we should expect Soo In to pull a Kiera Knightly from Pirates of the Caribbean here? Let's have the girl rip off her own bodice, shoot guns and argue law with pirates?
This is a television saguek from SK, however. It has to show Joseon for what it WAS, not was we want it to be. The girl will need saving once in a while and once in a while she will save herself.
She plays young and innocent because she is young and innocent. We are not seeing grown up Soo In yet. A time jump's a coming.
She doesn't have agency because she doesn't have agency.
Confucian society, etc, all the things that take power from women exist in this era.
I like this show so far, but I didn't like PM's second half. I hope this doesn't follow the same narrative thingamabob as PM.
But she did shoot a gun, remember?
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 6:31 AM
Exactly! Why forget women's history and actual circumstances in a drama about a woman trying to grow and the big bad patriarchal system clamping down on enlightenment? How then can we see the important aspects of this historical battle if we have hero/heroine who are already formed? To ask for the heroine to be more feminist-worthy is pretty much not historically possible --yet-- in this script.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 6:30 AM
I posted a response to you after your #19 comment by mistake – sorry!
I have been trying to think of a 'rescue story' that works and one that comes to mind is the Korean film Mai Ratima, where the female is literally enslaved by her husband's family, has zero ability to do anything (she's a mail-order-bride from Thailand) and becomes a rescued damsel in distress (she literally gets whisked away on a motorbike)... but the story plays out in a much more complex manner than that.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 6:34 AM
Everyone grows at her own pace, though. We can't compare one person's journey to another.
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Chandler
July 3, 2014 at 8:09 PM
This is exactly how I feel. I love stories with badass female leads any day, but I like stories with just the average girl just as much. In fact, I particularly like watching a flawed or weak lead develop into someone you'd never expect they'd be by the end. Those narratives end up being some of the most enjoyable for me.
And since Soo-In's character description literally mentions how she DEVELOPS into a woman of the world, I think we can expect many changes from her and, if the show delivers, then I'll end up appreciating her initial characterization much more. Still, even now, I think it's a little silly to simply call her a damsel in distress when she is actively TRYING to grow stronger, and has dreams of living in a world were woman can easily achieve dreams such as viewing the ocean. She's young and sheltered which means she hasn't had the chance to develop the skills necessary to be the badass heroine we want yet, but that certainly doesn't mean she won't in the future.
In some ways, I find these attacks on her character to be a little insulting to women. I've been rescued from a scary situation before, despite having had self-defense/martial arts training etc., and, guess what people, that does NOT make me weak. I know this because, in another situation, I did save myself. But sometimes you do need saving (both men and women).
Nowadays, we are given the option to learn to fight, but given the times that this particular story is set in, where men are educated in weaponry and fighting and women are not, it makes sense that a women would lack the skills and physical strength necessary to always come to her own rescue. Despite that, Soo-in still put herself at risk for a worthy cause and has educated herself about the world. Pretty cool girl for the times imo, even if she can be a little too cutesy some of the time.
I guess I just don't understand how a woman needing to be rescued can be seen as a detriment to her character or somehow means she isn't "strong" when strength comes in many many forms.
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Lulla
July 3, 2014 at 5:57 AM
Thx for the recaps Javabeans !
Maybe I'm different, but I don't mind a female character who needs protection. Why not ? Unless the character becomes too clingy, I can accept that.
Besides, needing protection doesn't mean that the female won't give any help at all. Soo In looked week physically, but she's an educated girl. I'm sure that she will have her own supporting part later on.
Can't wait for the next episodes!
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Sue
July 3, 2014 at 2:38 PM
I though it was funny when you said that Soo In should have done something more in the mountains because she must have learned something from all those scholars. Considering that the scholars are dropping like flies, I don't find them to be good examples of action men.
I see glimpses of what she can become. At this moment neither Soo In nor Yoong Kang have shown us their true potential. They are still innocent. I am hopeful that events will help them flourish and develop into interesting characters. If it doesn't happen in a reasonable amount of time I guess I'll be dropping it too, but I still think it is too soon.
If anything I am grateful that some things I expected to happen didn't happen. I thought that he would be so stupid that he would not figure out right away that she was the man and he would be surprised when he found out. Not the case. And I though that book would linger around waiting to be found in typical kdrama fashion. But no, it was destroyed right away.
The show is not perfect, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt for a few more episodes.
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3 autleaf
July 2, 2014 at 9:05 PM
That is one speedy recap, JB, thanks a million! I'm sitting at the edge of my seat for the next 2 months to see how this drama will turn out.
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4 Shalini
July 2, 2014 at 9:06 PM
What did anyone else think of the preview pics at the end of ep 3? They appeared to show Yoon-kang going off to the continent (or somewhere where the clothing is much more western) and sporting a pair of horn-rimmed glasses (with short hair!)
I'm pretty sure they're gong to pull the 5 year separation + return for revenge thing on us :( No wonder they hit us with the romance at the start...our leads are going to take a while to find each other again :(
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5 Shalini
July 2, 2014 at 9:09 PM
What do you all make of the preview pics at the end of episode 3?
They appear to show Yoon-Kang going off the continent after a tearful good-bye with Soo-In and his return (in western clothing, horn-rimmed glasses and shorter hair!).
I'm positive the writers are going to pull a 5 year separation and return for revenge sort of thing. No wonder they hit us with the romance right off the bat, our leads are going to take a while to find each other again :(
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6 Cocoboo
July 2, 2014 at 9:11 PM
I seriously thought that Yoon Kang's father was going to die in this ep. I feel it coming though. ;-;
I thought Choi Won Shin had enough time to take another shot at Jin Han. I don't know why he didn't.
The royal soldiers were nowhere nearby. (Not that I wanted Jin Han to die tho... )
Jin Han's 2nd-in-command guy looked kinda shady in previous episodes. I wondered why he was helpful to Yoon Kang during his lock up.
I adored the happy, cute brother-sister moments between Yeon Ha and Yoon Kang when Yeon Ha was grumpy at him.
And when she knew to give him time alone with Soo In.
Yoon Kang's quick peck was soooo adorable! Glad to see his chemistry with Soo In is building up so fast already.
Han Joo Wan is cute. This is my first time seeing him act. Looking forward to seeing more of his character.
I'm not gonna have 2nd lead syndrome, but I'm excited to see if he will be paired with anyone like Hye Won~
So Hye Won doesn't know that her father is the gunman. I thought she may have known her father had some shady dealings with gun merchandise at least, but I'm not so sure now. Maybe she knows that, but she doesn't know his side job. Anyway, I'm anticipating the moment she learns the truth and her reaction. Really liking the evil father + not-so-evil[?] daughter aspect. Can't wait to see how this will affect Won Shin later on.
Thanks for the recap. I agree with you, Javabeans. ^^
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Kim Yoonmi (Surname first)
July 2, 2014 at 9:32 PM
I'm of the opinion that they could have killed the father in episode 2, and did the mother thing in flashbacks to complicate the feelings towards his father, kept the sister around instead of innocently fridging her (Which I can taste), which gives him a secondary worry and a conflicting want and then used the father bit for the revenge--developing the father as they move forward through the story, so the story isn't a simple revenge plot, but something on the order of him understanding his father's motivations. The love-hate relationship with his father makes the revenge plot murky, as supposed to the sister plot, which is too dry cut.
I like my stories layered. And Sageuk can do that given the time and space they are usually given.
Then give Soo In agency by putting her up in the mountains with Yoon Kang (Also, I'd have her free him on the condition she goes *with* him... I think it would be awesome to bring her mini pistol, which is historically inaccurate someone said), so she tastes the death of Yoon Kang's father and shares the guilt in not being able to save him in time, despite what she's learned from the scholars, say like the Art of War, which surprises Yoon Kang that she knows.... but what she gains and knows isn't enough... which drives a mini wedge between them that runs hot-cold while they get to the bottom of the plot.
Layers. Layers. Complicate things a bit. Plus, I think Joonki could pull that whole scenario off very well being a multi-dimensional actor. And I don't think Nam Sang Mi would have an issue with that kind of plotting at all...
Just an example of how they could have *killed the father already* and hit unexpected beats. Revenge stories are delicious when they are morally murky ground and in order to get your revenge you have to sacrifice the ones you love (say Yoon Kang has to sacrifice his sister) in order to get that revenge. Which is a good reason to keep around the sister and develop her character.
Or you can call this post frustration with the lack of well-written dramas, but has good actors lately.
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meri
July 2, 2014 at 9:56 PM
I see what you're saying about the women not being used much. But I think it would have made more sense if she would have worked in a more believable way according to her status. For example, if she was able to convince Hye-won (?) which would have been conflicting because she would learn later that she helped to chase her father and it could be the reason the daughter was killed so Soo-In would feel guilty about that.
But I think most people, were like me, and expected the father to die. That kind of thing happens all the time. The father dies then the son learns how great a father he really was, or tried to be.
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Lin_K
July 2, 2014 at 10:10 PM
It's good that they showed a bit more of the father-son relationship. Otherwise, the audience won't feel the pain Yoon Kang will feel in losing his dad given their tense relationship. And we already know that he adores his sister from their interactions.
I am fine with the plot as long as it makes sense and wraps up well. And LJK is my favorite actor; so, I can be biased but honestly, I don't see how the story writing is bad as of now. It is too early to blame the writing. Besides, I have watched some dramas that started out complicated and went crazy towards the middle or the end; so, it may be good that JG is not that complicated right now. It may manage to give us a steady and consistent pace and great story. I sure hope so! :)
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Kim Yoonmi (Surname first)
July 2, 2014 at 10:45 PM
As I said, they can do it in post. See Alice no Toge for an example. We don't actually meet her father in the drama. We only see him in flashback. She begins to understand her father throughout the drama while exacting her revenge for him. So you set up the complex relationship between father and son and then kill the father, show the mixed emotions through past interactions and use the mix of grief stages with revenge.
So you still get alive interactions, but also recollections and figuring out motivations by moving forward through the plot. (Similar to what writers call a frame, though this frame is a bit more artificially created through objects and events.)
This keeps the tension and pacing going at the same time as highlighting the characters and is a classic technique of both (most) European, Japanese, and Korean literature.
That was my suggestion. Kill him in episode 2, bring the actor back through various flashbacks, and have YK understand him through plot points moving forward, thus both processing his grief for his father at the same time as moving the plot forward. (Similar techniques used in other sageuk too.) You don't have to damage the history that way either.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 12:38 AM
Actually, when I first started watching this drama, during episodes 1 and 2, I thought I would have kind of liked the drama to begin at a later point – i.e. when YK is already the gunman. When we have a character that's intensely angry, full of feelings of revenge and smarter-than-everyone, with the drama only slowly peeling back the layers of his character and back story (how he ended up becoming that gunman).
Alice no Tokage is a good example how this kind of non-chronological storytelling can be extremely effective.
daktari34
July 3, 2014 at 4:45 AM
Unfortunately with the live shoot system in use for most kdramas coupled with the script revisions, telling a story through flashbacks is difficult unless the writer has the story mostly fleshed out and willing to stand up for it.
CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 7:09 AM
If a story is about how a character grows, it might not be a good idea to do a flashback.
alua
July 3, 2014 at 8:48 AM
@Carole
There's different ways to tell the same story, none of which is necessarily better than the other. I'm not suggesting it would have been better in flashback mode, just that I had a flash of a moment imagining what it would have been like if the writer had chosen to start that way. :-)
CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 10:14 AM
Hi alua:
Okay. That's fine then.
There are definitely many ways of telling a story, and even the perfect way of telling a story. For me, if we are aiming for revenge -- and revenge only-- then flashbacks are fine and we could start with the gunman in the present or even with the inciting incident.
But if this story is more than revenge, then one person's flashback is not gonna cut it. OR we could end up with a lot of different people's flashbacks.
This story seems to be more than revenge -- although revenge is the main plot-- and it seems to have at least 4 important character POV's. All that head-hopping would diffuse the many themes of a larger story.
We don't know what story the writer is writing. We think we do. But we can't really say writer-nim shoulda-woulda-coulda so early in the game. It's the writer's story, not ours. And writer-nim consciously chose the technique she/he considered best. I think we should trust her this early in the game and prepare for a story that's more than revenge...and about more than two persons.
CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 4:11 AM
There's always the question of where a story should begin. The inciting moment then use flashbacks? A Longer beginning leading up to the inciting moment? Prologues then the inciting moment?
I think the drama did it the right way. There are tons of information and characters to be introduced. We need to see spy in the military, villain's relationship with his daughter, villain's relationship with Elder Lord (did you see the way he had to walk behind the lords because he was a mere merchant?), second lead female's power/moral ambiguity versus lead female's innocence and lack of power, second male lead's relationship with female lead, second male lead's meeting male lead, second male lead's idealism.
This is not just a story about two people and one of them seeking revenge. The drama needed time to populate setting and place characters in the right spot. And all these characters need to grow. So we can't just toss stuff in to "get to the murder and the revenge." This might do a lot better than Inspiring Generation to show cultural conflicts/feminism etc.
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Newbie
July 4, 2014 at 6:10 AM
All those discussions yesterday, when to start a story and that some thought that the writer should have started later made me think of Emergency Couple. This show gave us one measly episode of background story, we saw the hasty marriage and the fights as well as the divorce in ep one. To what result? During the whole show I was never able to conect to those characters, I always asked myself what went wrong, why they divorced. Everything was rushed and unclear.
I'm very happy Joseon Gunman took the time needed to establish its characters and almost doesn't do flashbacks, which must be my least favorite way of storytelling.
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7 KDaddict
July 2, 2014 at 9:12 PM
I like the daughter of that evil gunman, Choi, and hope she gets more screen time. She just seems like an interesting char and that actress is effortlessly likeable.
Nam Sang Mi plays her char well. To me, there is a rather comfy, homey about her, that comes across as the girl or ajumma next door, more so than the characters she plays.
When SI called the him 'Oraboni", and was sooo happy and familiar w him, I thought he was her brother! Then I saw LJK's expressions! LOL.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 4:14 AM
So true about the heroine's likeability. Heroine is innocent and is falling in love and is trying to see past the world she has been given, wanting to go past the city to the sea. She is growing up. If this character had been in a Chinese drama, she would have been cloying. But here, the innocence and intelligence are done so well. The sense of longing and youth are so palpable.
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8 KDaddict
July 2, 2014 at 9:14 PM
The stream where they splash water on each other, isn't that the same stream where the OTP in The Princess Man had their date?
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Lin_K
July 2, 2014 at 10:14 PM
I don't remember but this drama is from the same PD; so it's a strong possibility that the some scenes are shot at the same place :)
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9 exquisitemelody
July 2, 2014 at 9:25 PM
Yay! Another awesome episode. Yoon-kang has BADASS in his blood...he has one BADASS father. He jumped off the cliff!!
His relationship with his sister is adorable, and it was so cute when she left them alone.
I'm glad we got a little cute romance, because we're heading straight into the revenge arena. Need to brace myself! It was cute seeing his jealousy bits.
These are characters I can get behind...I love the leads, and I'm enjoying our baddies too.
Thanks for the awesome recap!
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10 Chandler
July 2, 2014 at 9:25 PM
I love this show! And your blurb at the top perfectly describes how I feel about it. It may not be completely new, but it's still super enjoyable and, in my opinion, you can never have too much of a good thing. Plus I just enjoy the characters :) Thanks for the recap!
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11 SH
July 2, 2014 at 9:36 PM
How is this show doing domestically? I'm curious. Looking at ratings, it's a bit low, but most shows nowadays score in that range. What about domestic online buzz, etc???
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Kiara
July 2, 2014 at 10:03 PM
Kind of sad that its not increasing. Eps 1 is still the highest at 8.4 I believe they are shooting for 15%. I'm hoping it'll hit double digit soon because "It's Okay, That's Love" with 2 A-list actors is airing on the 23rd plus No Hee-Kyung is the writer.
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12 secondwind
July 2, 2014 at 9:42 PM
Soo-in is one of the strongest women characters I've ever seen. She dreams big and works for what she believes in, like equality and freedom, putting herself in dangerous situations, even when she's afraid. She is a "scholar" and is respected by teachers and scholars. She's strong for a woman of her station, she's willing to carry a gun and use it when threatened, and she can make fireworks from gunpowder. This woman does it all and that's who Yang-kang is falling in love with. He's enrapt by her intelligence, knowledge, and beauty. I'm loving ever their romance, the story, and the action.
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13 meri
July 2, 2014 at 9:44 PM
Thank you javabeans for the speedy and detailed recap! I'm really enjoying this drama. Although I think some people are a little harsh about the Soo-In character I do find some of her mannerisms a little over the top. I don't think it's because the actress is too old or anything I think the other actors are really great in this drama which is a good problem to have because I see potential in the story line and in the actress and the character to grow.
I enjoy the interactions so far and the politics don't bog down the drama. I look forward to seeing everyone's motivations and more of the side characters back stories.
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14 andy
July 3, 2014 at 12:04 AM
try to watch this show, and wondering why the female leads is so old compare to Lee junki. a little bit surprise that she's 3 years older than Junki..i thought she;s 3 years older or more..
she doesnt suit aacting cute..
sorry for her fans
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andy
July 3, 2014 at 12:05 AM
i mean, turn out she's 3 years younger while she looks like 3 years older
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Patoi
July 3, 2014 at 12:10 AM
She is 2 years younger than Joon Gi.
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andy
July 3, 2014 at 12:11 AM
i mean turn out she's 3 years younger while she looks like 3 years older
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 4:20 AM
I think it's the way we've been brainwashed by the media to see beauty. Nowadays a model is considered older looking if she is past 20. We're so used to young female faces being used to show "older faces" that we really judge women as old when they aren't. There is always this talk in pageants about women looking old....and it's like... REALLY? That's what women that age should look like! I think if you look around at women the heroine's age -- and ignore the aegyo and plastic surgery-- you will see that she looks her age.
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Newbie
July 3, 2014 at 6:00 AM
Carole, I need to hug and kiss you right now (for everything you wrote in the comments btw). How can we accomplish it?!
Let's go the second best way:
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 6:38 AM
::big grin::
Thanks!
Second best is just as good as the best-- cross the ether!
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Because of Reasons
July 3, 2014 at 10:21 AM
How old is Soo In supposed to be? I've been assuming late teens, early twenties; but the actress looks older (late 20s). This isn't a criticism of the actress--she's beautiful! But it means that I find myself seeing the character as a woman who behaves like a girl several years younger, and it's throwing me off a little bit; it pulls me out of the story a little. In this episode I was starting to feel the same way about Lee Jun Ki a little bit as well. How old is Yoon Kang at this point in the story -- anyone know?
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 1:26 PM
uhm...not sure. Hero saved his little sis 13 years ago, if i remember. At that time he looked 12-ish. So maybe he's 22-25? I doubt he's younger cause he's a whiz with a sword and hangs out with gisaengs. So he's a bit immature.
As for heroine, i can't remember her age but i got a feeling she was his noona...but more sheltered, as girls back then tended to be. But not sure
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andy
July 3, 2014 at 9:55 PM
i mean, i checked her bio ( my habit after watching new drama) and surprise that she's 84 lines that means she's as the same age as, say Koo hyesun (she's her bff), Yoon Eunhye, Lee Dahae,, sandara park, ..well you name it.
and its not about surgery or aegyo...she looks older because her looks mature looks type. while YEH and KHS and Sandara is more baby face type.
now, we're talking about Lee junki. he's 33 years old, but he looks like 25 or less. dont blame surgery or such..his looks are baby face. you may compare him with another 82 lines such as Kim rae won, Lee dong gun or Lee dong wook. lee junki is just like a high school graduation when he stand side by side with them...
that's because his face looks much younger than his actual age. while NSM probably looks at her age, which is 30 years old. but LJK looks 5 years older...
if NSM stand beside her then boyfriend Lee sangyoon, nah, thats compatible. they looks at the same age
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15 MajorDickason's
July 3, 2014 at 12:23 AM
The musical theme with the chorus of rising voices, the lighting, the gorgeous shots and the revenge soon-to-be revenge story reminds me of The Princess's Man. You can see the same PD's touch here in JG. I loved that drama and hope JG rises to its own heights and isn't simply derivative.
Soo-In's dream of a different world with more equality and opportunity for women and her cross-dressing as a scholar also remind me of SKKS.
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16 utopious
July 3, 2014 at 2:14 AM
"I have a dream that I want to go to the end of that sea. Women in Joseon need courage just to leave the city gate. Not that kind of world but the world we can go anywhere and do anything if we wanted to. Living in that kind of world is my dream" - Soo In
This. This shows that Soo-In will be different from usual dependent sageuk ladies. How can writers set her character on such a solid basis then make her a damsel with no function other than loving and being loved? Just because previous dramas failed to do it right doesn't mean this will fail too.
I also don't understand the mentality of "badass woman equals to well-written or good". She doesn't need to take the sword or gun and go up the mountains alongside the hero to be a "strong" woman. She has brains and education enough to make her an interesting and if writers make her use them then she will be a pleasure to watch.
On a fangirling note, I'm dying to see Jun Ki suited up with spectacles :P
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[email protected]
July 3, 2014 at 3:12 AM
<“badass woman equals to well-written or good”.
It doesn't. It's about cliché characters, and characters that have no purpose other than to be a narrative tool rather than something that actually propels the plot forward. There also plenty of examples in dramas where we have badass women that are just boring as hell because they are so cliché and predictable.
<She doesn’t need to take the sword or gun and go up the mountains alongside the hero to be a “strong” woman.
No, she doesn't, I agree. But I don't see, for example, why she's searching for YH in one moment and then has to be sent home to the safe haven in the next because she would slow the hero down (she didn't before? And why would she slow anyone down, she can search with the maid in one area, he in another if need be?). Of course, it might be argued she shouldn't be out at all (she did get in trouble for staying out just before), but then there seems to be some sort of inconsistency with her freely wandering around with two females and YK in the middle of the night just before without much problem.
I hope we'll get more of her pursuing her dream, whatever means – cross dressing, plotting at home, or learning to use the gun, if that's what she decides. We'll see what they'll let her do and become.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 4:23 AM
But if something is historical, how can it be cliche? Wouldn't a guy from that era want to send home a woman to safety? It's often when folks start doing ahistorical thing that stuff becomes cliche. There are way too many cliched a-historical badass women in some period pieces.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 4:53 AM
That's an interesting question, but for the sake of the argument I want to say yes, historical can be cliché too. Because it's all about the details, which can make a difference. (Agree on the clichéd ahistorical badass women.)
Wouldn't a guy form that era want a woman home safely? I suppose, but that's where I'm feeling confused, because he didn't stop her from going to meet the scholar and they already spent the night out – not quite as they planned, but he knew better than to stop her from making that trip then keeping her home safe. Granted, that was her mission, this one is his (his sister). It's just that I'm not feeling quite clear on what they are doing, and it could go either way – damsel in distress or female character with a personality.
That said, he searched all night, she did what at home? Gave up after the second leading lady sent her away? These things might make a difference.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 5:18 AM
I hear you. I think he went with her on her trip because he was protecting her. I think he said something about him staying with her to keep her safe. So male noblesse. Same thing with sending her home. Male protectiveness. It shows his easygoing "rake" nature...he has a rebellious streak in him that makes him not try to keep her home and makes him accept the cross-dressing. And he had begun to develop a crush on her.
Yes, they could've shown her staying out all night to help him search for his sister. It would've been good to feel her guilt rather than imagining her pacing back and forth in her safe room...or worse, sleeping. She respects Second Lead Lady and Second Lead Lady has been shown before to be very "persuasive" and "wise" when folks go searching. There's also the Eunni syndrome. If Eunni says something, then Eunni has more wisdom and common sense. The writers could've been clearer, i guess, but I suspect there will come a time when heroine's respect for second lead's words will dwindle.
17 liny
July 3, 2014 at 3:13 AM
Oh! so much sweetness, so much heartache in this episode...
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18 kanz
July 3, 2014 at 3:25 AM
I watch this drama for Lee Jun Ki and most likely to stay because LJK too. The villains are cardboard cutouts from other sageuk. The only difference this time is they use guns instead of swords.
I love the cute scenes, but don't feel much about the plot.
I also see heroine like Soo In maybe in 10 other sageuks, and so far Nam Sang Mi didn't make it past the character.
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Kiara
July 3, 2014 at 6:26 PM
LEE JUN-KI IS SO WORTH IT! I love him for his cheerful attitude even if he doesn't get to sleep while trying to get the fight scenes right. I'm exhausted just thinking about how many times it takes because it's so physically and mentally demanding. I really appreciate all the effort that he put in to make it as real as possible by not using a stunt double.
It's only eps 3 and he looks tired already in some scenes :(. Hope his manager is taking good care of him.
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19 CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 3:42 AM
Thanks so much for the recap. I sooooooo love this drama. Love hero, love heroine. Love the gravitas of the whole sajeuk thing. Love the music. It's there and you notce it but it's not overthe-top intrusive. Love the sense of scope mixed in with the sense of intimacy.
I felt so happy when Second Lead appeared because i liked this actor from Wang Family. And after hearing his family story, I felt so proud of him to be succeeding as an actor.
I really like our gunman villain. I suppose I should hate him and reallly it's been while since I found myself really seethng with anger and hatred for a kdrama villain. Maybe I'll hate Evil Elder Lord. But so far, just kinda intrigued by them..not really wanting to wring their necks.
I noticed how our hero helped the heroine and then his sister climb up past the rock (extended his hand to them) but didn't do it for the servant. I bet there'll be moments to come when he helps some maid or some non-lady. He's so of his world and yet...it's clear he could become Mr. Egalitarian/Feminist/Champion of the enlightenment. The look he gave heroine as she taught him about fireworks was mixed with love but also "Wow, a woman can be so wise!"
Loved the shot of our hero in the preview in Western dress and specs! So sexy intellectual! And i'll love him in his gunman outfit. LJK looks good whatever he wears.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 5:33 AM
Well, I find that a whole lot of people have no idea about what feminism actually is. It certainly isn't about one type of woman and female role, and certainly isn't only about women, but just as much about men.
I certainly think we should have all kinds of stories, of all kinds of people, including those in the most traditional, subservient kind of roles.
What matters to me however is how well those stories are told, how well the characters' experiences and emotions are conveyed, regardless of whether one can relate to their situation or not. You can have extremely compelling stories with highly flawed, very weak individuals that have zero agency at all – but they won't be stock characters, they won't be flat characters, they won't be narrative tools, which is what happens all too often in dramas and films.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 6:57 AM
When something is historical and has a tonna characters, I tend to give the writing the benefit of the doubt in the first three or four episodes because there is so much world-building involved. Worldbuilding can make or break the entire theme of the story. So if the character comes off as flat, I let it go. Other story elements are being accomplished and set in place.
Now as for the character being flat.. I don't see it. It could be the actress. Lke I said, if this was being done in a Chinese Drama I would've been cringing. Because i find all those sweet heroines in Chinese dramas a bit on the sweet-to-tooth-decaying side.
The writer is asking us to see a sweet innocent scholar with longings to be free. Heroine thinks she is daring and is somewhat daring...after all she goes outside dressed as a man -- fairly often it would seem. Heroine wants to travel by herself to a far port. She is loyal to her teaching master and respectful of her Eunni and kind to her maid. Heroine is trying to be a spy. And heroine is trying to fire a gun. She's not at all as enlightened as she thinks she is. But there you have her. It's sweet, pitiful, and sad. But not flat really. The writer has combined the naivete and the longing well and made room for a romance.
In addition, the writer has set up the hero and heroine as perfect for each other. He has a kind of patriarchal desire to help the weak little woman. He also has a kind of patronzing attitude toward her goals...which he thinks are just plain silly for anyone, especially a woman. But we see his kindness in allowing her to be a spy. And he even teaches her how to ride a horse. He travels with her because women woud be in trouble if caught alone out in the world.
I really don't see flat here. I see a typical young heroine on her way to growth, yes. Which is what we want. But she is not flat. And really... if she is flat, then all teenagers and young folk are flat. Because typically, all young (rich, privileged, women) revolutionaries go through pretty much the same stages of enlightenment.
Heroine is set up for her stages: wistful longing for enlightenment, realization that she is play-acting at heroism because she didn't know how scary it all was, moment that makes her realize true committment is necessary and the cost of said committment, true committment and all the sorrows and joys it brings. It's not flat or cliched..it's normal life.
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 8:46 AM
Oh, I'm not implying she's flat, I was speaking in general about the most common type of damsel-in-distress characters (and as I said with reference to Mai Ratima, even there, there can be exceptions depending how a character is handled).
I am not calling her a damsel in distress just yet either, just that she is showing some signs of that, and some signs that it might developing into something much more interesting.
I'm holding out still!
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 1:27 PM
:-) ::big grin:
20 john
July 3, 2014 at 4:40 AM
javabeans ~
Thanks for the recap. Well, I had had high hopes for this drama. I'll say that it's pretty, that's always a plus.
The plot though, ugh. It's like the Hallmark Channel goes Sageuk. Where's the nail biting excitement I had hoped for?
For a scholar girl who has been exposed to 'radical ' ideas, I had hoped she would have be a bit more of a proselytizer of the radical new ideas.
An overly ambitious convert, all book knowledge but no practical experience, I'd go with it.
It would have been 'dangerous' for her to have done so, but it might give her a bit more character.
I'm not expecting a rifle toting rebel warrior woman, although that would have been so cool.
I like Nam Sang mi, but for some reason she gives off an ajumma vibe rather than a young maiden.
The reveal of Yoon-kang's mom's death was clunky.
I'll keep watching though.
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john
July 3, 2014 at 7:51 AM
I think this might time for me to pick Yae no Sakura back up. Historical, based on an actual person, Yamamoto Yaeko. Nurse, rifle instructor, founded a college for women, the first woman outside of Imperial House of Japan to be decorated for her service to the country, the list goes on. Plus, it features the ever so lovely Haruka Ayase.
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D's handphone
July 3, 2014 at 4:39 PM
Hi John.. i did watched it, it was ok, i guess. not really into taiga but still gave it a try cos i've loved her since Hotaru no Hikari and Odagiri Joe
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21 Giegie
July 3, 2014 at 6:10 AM
I watched the first 2 episodes last night and I fell in love with the show. Lead actress looks a bit old as Soo-in but the actress is pulling the character off just fine. I love the character, she's brainy and she has dreams. It''s my first Lee Jungki drama and I am loving him. ^^
Thanks for the recap JB. :)
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22 kles
July 3, 2014 at 6:27 AM
Lovin' this drama. There sure are a lot of negative comments here... don't like don't watch.... just sayin'.....
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23 Quiet Thought
July 3, 2014 at 7:29 AM
The writing and directing here are not, thus far, as good as the concept or the acting, but the characters are fund to watch in action. We'll see what happens when the characters have to dramatically change and "modernize" in the next few episodes. If the writer understands what has to happen for Joseon to survive the culture shock of the Victorian era, this show could become excellent.
We know that our hero is going to mature and become darker and more sophisticated, but our heroine also needs to do this. Right now, her excuse for being such a doormat is that she is very young and has led a sheltered life. For her to be more than a burden to the story, she has to develop a strong enough personality--in a tradtional OR a "modern" sense, to take a strong part in the story. If she is still useless in the later episodes, you won't have to be a feminist to find her annoying.
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CaroleMcDonnell
July 3, 2014 at 7:58 AM
True!
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alua
July 3, 2014 at 9:47 AM
Darker!
I want the darker, indeed.
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24 utopious
July 3, 2014 at 7:40 AM
Just watched episode 4 live and OH. MY. GOD. It was definitely awesome. I was on my toes whole hour long. This was the episode that makes this drama the "IT" drama. YESSS. can't wait for the recap.
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25 secretlyaddicted
July 3, 2014 at 8:17 AM
The scenery is BEAUTIFUL! And daddy is the man! Jumping that cliff without hesitation! YEAH!
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Because of Reasons
July 3, 2014 at 10:30 AM
I really liked the moment a bit later in the chase where the gunman leaped a large gap from one boulder to another. I expected that to be the point in the chase where the pursuer pulls up or at least hesitates because he doubts that he's fit or athletic enough to make the same move, and so the bad guy gets away. But Papa Park just went for it full speed ahead! I was cheering out loud for him at that point. This was a good episode for showing his awesomeness, to make us really feel his loss when he goes.
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26 August
July 3, 2014 at 11:15 AM
Really glad that Park Yoon Kang's father wasn't killed in the first three episodes of Joseon Gunman. Such a relief that Park Jin Han (played by Choi Jae Sung) has survived each attempt and encounter with the gunman.
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fanwho
July 3, 2014 at 3:04 PM
Talking about dad - Feels so funny to see him and his right man officer Moon. They were general WonKyun and his king SunJo who gave admiral Yi such a grief in the drama Immortal Yi SoonShin (and real history). They were so hated, but now they came back as good men (with reversed ranks). Funny.
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Kiara
July 3, 2014 at 8:37 PM
Lol I remember that but still love him from Eyes of Dawn so it really didn't matter.
This is not just a reunion between him and Lee Jun-ki. He was in "Jang Gil San" with the evil merchant Choi back in 2004.
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27 exquisitemelody
July 3, 2014 at 12:47 PM
Okay, every single time I come to the DB front page and I see this post, I can't help but thinking that the top photo looks like Jung Il woo - the profiles are similar! Or is it just me?
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28 cheekypig
July 3, 2014 at 1:27 PM
guys, dont stone me but i am not liking nam sang mi in this drama. i think she is trying hard to act cute... just doesn't suit her.
ah, and jung ki is wwaaayyyy prettier than her.
love her in Bad Family though.
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29 Quiet Thought
July 3, 2014 at 5:08 PM
Lord Park is a BAD ASS and needs his own series. But, he's obviously going to get croaked soon. Bummer.
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Kiara
July 3, 2014 at 8:14 PM
I love him long time. If you go back and watch his old dramas especially Eyes of Dawn and all his sageuks you will love him forever.
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30 anais
July 3, 2014 at 7:34 PM
Life is so hectic that I haven't been able to watch any of the dramas for some time now, but I just adore that LJK has been reunited with his gangster father figure from Time Between Dog and Wolf. I loved them so much in that. I wish I could be watching this along with everyone.
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31 minny
July 3, 2014 at 8:14 PM
Off topic. May I ask javabeans that why don't you also have a "thumb down" button.
I feel that when people make harsh comments and get a few thumb ups, without seeing the other side of the majority (that they could also get
many more thumb downs from people who disagree but just don't want to jump into a fight with them), they may get too carried away that their view is much appreciated by most people. That'll wrongly encourage them to take things even further. And eventually it'll spoil the mood of the whole community.
I think it'll be fairer to let people see both thumb ups and thumb downs
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