Ironically that your dp is Ji-won sunbae in a superhero costume and you’re asking for help, BUT YES, I’m here! How can I help??? May I suggest the currently airing, Reunited Worlds? It’s fantastic.
I’ve been flirting with starting Reunited Worlds, but couldn’t muster up the motivation to actually do it. I think my drama slump has scared me into thinking everything will end up disappointing. BUT OKAY, I’m gonna start it NOW.
Go! Go to him! I went into it w/ little to no expectations, and was thoroughly entertained throughout the first ep. First ep was SOLID! 👌🏼 I hope you’ll feel the same way when you watch it. I’m now all caught up w/ it, and it’s still VERY GOOD. 👍🏼 The latest ep had me laughing so much!
It’s a dream of mine to see Park Shin-hye, Kim So-eun, and Jung So-min in a drama. Maybe something like Charlie’s Angels. Oh, I’d love to see Ha Ji-won and Lee Soo-hyuk in a drama. She’s hot, he’s hot. She’s an amazing actress, he’s workable. They’ll smoulder together, it’ll be perfect.
I don’t particularly love this song, but it’s been stuck in my head for last goddamn week so I’m sharing it here because I’ll be damned if I suffer alone.
i don’t like it so much, with certain series i don’t mind (Age of youth) because the format lends it to a second season, but overall, the reason i love watching kdrama’s is cause of the one-season format a opposed to the multiple seasons with english-spoken series
Yeah, I feel it lends itself more to shows like AOY which are very character driven. All these crime shows getting s2’s though… I feel they don’t have the lasting power.
next thing we know, we’ll have spinoffs from spinoffs and lots of seasons (CSI franchise), oh dear, please no, agreed, crime and romcom shows shouldnt last more than a season unless there is a subplot that could be interesting and even then,
So many dramas lose steam at the end of 16 or 20 episodes anyway… I think we’d get some real crazy sh*t if writers have to stretch things over multiple seasons suddenly.
true! i tend to lose interest like 3/4 in of most series, sometimes i force myself to finish but more often than not i just drop them and read recaps to know how it ended
I know which thread you’re referring to, and I was *this close* to putting a disclaimer on my comment of “I know the downvotes are coming, so bring them on” 😉 Your comments were very well said, though 😉
Sigh. I was slightly interested in Man Who Dies to Live when it was first announced. But the way they\’ve gone on to portray Arabs and Muslims is just disrespectful.
Just a lot of ignorance and stereotypes. It’s obvious very little actual research about either went into the show. The PD/Writer’s preconceptions of them seem to be informed by a mix of Aladdin and post 9-11 stereotypes.
Haven’t watched yet, but I was really looking forward to it. Is the racism that bad? I kind of expected that tbh, but I was hoping that any jokes/stereotypes about Arabs and Muslims would be dropped quickly once the guy goes back to Korea. Or does it continue even after that?
my apologies but I’d rather not post the screen cap I saw. And that disturbing, annoying scene is just in Ep 1. I can’t move past it, that I’ll not watch the rest of the drama
I know it\’s considered the same as like a star sign or MBTI type, but I still find it odd that k-actors and kpop stars\’ blood types are so easily accessible. I feel really weird having that information…
If I were to compliment kdramas on just one thing, it would be that they allow their shows to be silly. I\’m getting tired of this fake gritty \”realism\” that seems to be dominating western media. Not everything has to be miserable to be \”realistic.\”
Does anyone else go through drama mood swings? I seem to alternate from watching absurdist fluffy romcoms to nothing but murder shows for the following weeks. Like every few months.
I always have drama mood swing. And an extreme one at that too. I switched so fast from craving one genre to another. From romcom, murder thriller, tearjerker, sometimes even to makjang.
Lol true enough. They look swoony on screen but only because it’s not happening to you lol
There are a few hidden gems, but then they seem too perfect to ever be real (Twenty Again, Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-gu, Queen In-hyun’s Man, I Hear Your Voice).
I’ve never been as bothered with the wrist-grab as most people seem to be. It depends on the context. I did like the subversion of it in The Bride of the Water God, though.
I don’t think it has ever been addressed from a cultural point of view it this site, but I have sometimes wondered if it has sprung from the korean custom of limited touching and skinship with strangers. Like maybe taking the hand if a near stranger is frowned upon so they have gotten into the habit of taking the wrist?
Maybe it was at first with strangers only and then they got used to doing it with everybody. 😁
Yeah, I’m not bothered by it if the guy doesn’t look like he yanking her around. If they’re just doing it as opposed to holding hands I don’t mind. Maybe it’s different cultural perspectives?
I think why it doesn’t bother me is that the girl can always say no if she truly wanted to. I’ve never seen one done so forcefully that the girl couldn’t easily enough break the contact if she wanted to. I read it as a subconscious decision that she does want to be removed from the situation or stopped from leaving. Of course you could read it in a feminist perspective that the woman thinks that she can’t break the contact because she believes that the man does have ultimate control over her and she has no power, but I think that’s being too pessimistic. But, again it depends on context for me.
If a girl wants to leave or not go somewhere then the guy should respect it. Not get physical to prevent her from from doing so. It’s as simple as that.
If the wrist grab bothers people, then the situation should be seen as both of them being at fault. The guy should respect her, but she should stand up for herself. The guy always touches her spontaneously and out of desperation. He’s not thinking nefarious thoughts towards her. If she has a problem with him grabbing her, then it should be up to her to break contact. By her choosing not to, then she is letting him have control. Whether he should have that control or not can be our judgment, but you can’t blame him for her letting him have that control.
Sorry, but that is the definition of victim blaming. Kdrama heroines are rarely ever not written as subordinate to their male leads. There are societal pressures, and sometimes professional ones (i.e. work dramas), that DO prevent them from voicing rejection because it would negatively impact them. And we HAVE had male leads force themselves on female leads while they voice rejection anyway. So the female can’t win. She’ll be seen as secretly “wanting it” anyway. And that’s the kinda stuff that makes girls feel like they can’t say no in the first place. You can’t place the responsibility of the male’s actions on her.
Omg! I’m so glad you brought this up because I always wondered about the quality of the subs on Netflix. I don’t have it, but after finding out how many K-dramas are on there, I was curious about the quality of the subs–if they were accurate and specific/detailed.
I don’t know if the quality varies from drama to drama but for AOY, in just the first two eps there were translations that messed up key lines and jokes. Nothing that screws up anything really important, but still noticeable. I hope the other dramas might have better subs because Netflix has actually been good about getting more dramas lately, and their international content is growing. It’d be a shame if it was wasted on bad subs.
Oh that sucks, though. I love it when I get the little jokes and/or meta used in shows. For regulars like us, it kinda takes away from the drama-watching experience, but as long as the main idea for each scene and overall show is portrayed well, then it is what it is. That’s why we have DB for situations like that–to fill us in on the gaps that the bad subs left!
callie
July 29, 2017 at 10:27 PM
I haven’t finished a drama since March…
Somebody help…
chingu
July 29, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Ironically that your dp is Ji-won sunbae in a superhero costume and you’re asking for help, BUT YES, I’m here! How can I help??? May I suggest the currently airing, Reunited Worlds? It’s fantastic.
ravennightstar
July 29, 2017 at 11:44 PM
I’ll gladly second this^
I love it!!
chingu
July 30, 2017 at 12:24 AM
Me too! Will be posting about it soon! Haha. Will also try to join in on the recap threads, too.
ravennightstar
July 30, 2017 at 12:53 AM
Yay, yay! Will look forward to your posts:D
callie
July 29, 2017 at 11:56 PM
I’ve been flirting with starting Reunited Worlds, but couldn’t muster up the motivation to actually do it. I think my drama slump has scared me into thinking everything will end up disappointing. BUT OKAY, I’m gonna start it NOW.
Jin Goo-yah, HERE I COME!
chingu
July 30, 2017 at 12:23 AM
Go! Go to him! I went into it w/ little to no expectations, and was thoroughly entertained throughout the first ep. First ep was SOLID! 👌🏼 I hope you’ll feel the same way when you watch it. I’m now all caught up w/ it, and it’s still VERY GOOD. 👍🏼 The latest ep had me laughing so much!
callie
July 28, 2017 at 10:47 PM
Even if people dislike the changes, I hope people will at least give AOY2 a shot.
Do it for the sunbaeeees
Sera The Ms Temper
July 29, 2017 at 12:54 AM
Definitely! There’s no such thing as give up without any fight 😆
chingu
July 29, 2017 at 1:52 PM
I’m over the changes. I’m READY for s2! Waiting for you, sunbae-nims!
callie
July 27, 2017 at 11:51 PM
Age of Youth 2’s new teaser is 💕💕💕💕💕
Kudo Ran
July 28, 2017 at 12:21 AM
Aw so cute 😊
neener
July 28, 2017 at 2:07 AM
Eun-bin and Seung-won OTP! Sad about Han Ye-ri and Yoon Park though
callie
July 27, 2017 at 9:32 PM
What are your guys\’ dream drama pairings? Like two actors that have never worked together, but you\’d kill for it to happen?
weaselking
July 27, 2017 at 9:36 PM
Yeo Jingoo and Park Boyoung~~ T_T Both have already said they’d like to work with each other.
toramona
July 27, 2017 at 9:40 PM
I want that too!
kiara
July 27, 2017 at 10:16 PM
yaaas!
gadis
July 27, 2017 at 9:41 PM
Jo Jung-seok and Seo Hyun-jin. They would make for a very lethal romcom pairing. Drama Gods, please make it happen someday…
SnarkyJellyfish
July 27, 2017 at 9:54 PM
This is my dream pairing too! Both of them just fully inhabit every role they take on.
cassie23
July 28, 2017 at 12:53 AM
oh my i’d love too look forward 😘😘😘
i want seo hyun jin and yeon woo jin to be paired too 😍😍
ObsessedMuch
July 27, 2017 at 9:43 PM
Park Shin Hye and Kim Soo Hyun… PSH has worked with the 3 other Hallyu wave stars except him! And I dunno, I think they would look good together..
Ek Ladhki Thi is Kim Eun-sooks no 1 fan
July 27, 2017 at 10:56 PM
It’s a dream of mine to see Park Shin-hye, Kim So-eun, and Jung So-min in a drama. Maybe something like Charlie’s Angels. Oh, I’d love to see Ha Ji-won and Lee Soo-hyuk in a drama. She’s hot, he’s hot. She’s an amazing actress, he’s workable. They’ll smoulder together, it’ll be perfect.
callie
July 25, 2017 at 8:13 PM
Did down votes really get removed? I know I complained about them at first, but I was kinda getting used to them.
fatcat007
July 25, 2017 at 8:23 PM
I’m glad they are gone, there were some crazy fans & anti fans out there ready to (serial)downvote if there’s even a slightly diff POV.
callie
July 25, 2017 at 8:25 PM
Yeah, it’s probably for the best. It’s better to not enable negativity. I just hope it doesn’t lead to more verbal fights in the comments.
fatcat007
July 25, 2017 at 8:37 PM
I hope so too. 🙂
callie
July 24, 2017 at 9:52 PM
I don’t particularly love this song, but it’s been stuck in my head for last goddamn week so I’m sharing it here because I’ll be damned if I suffer alone.
muymuy
July 24, 2017 at 9:57 PM
Do. Not. Click. Play!
It’s kinda catchy Z~Z~Z~
Thanks from spreading the misery! 🙂
callie
July 24, 2017 at 10:03 PM
Mission Accomplished! 😂
muymuy
July 24, 2017 at 10:10 PM
z~z~z~~~~~
wahhhh~~~~
muymuy
July 24, 2017 at 10:09 PM
*for
fatcat007
July 24, 2017 at 11:19 PM
“Z z z
I’m such a sleepy head”
I don’t think I’ve ever related so much to a song haha. Thanks for sharing 😀
callie
July 24, 2017 at 7:10 PM
Dramaland is actually doing a lot of sequels lately…
Not sure how I feel about it.
Kestrel
July 24, 2017 at 7:21 PM
There’s been a lot of open ended endings of shows lately too, leaving just enough to dangle for a sequel if necessary.
callie
July 25, 2017 at 7:25 AM
Those open ending have felt unfinished, rather than ambiguous, lately…
Writers forget you still have to finish the season you’re writing now.
Sia
July 25, 2017 at 1:16 AM
i don’t like it so much, with certain series i don’t mind (Age of youth) because the format lends it to a second season, but overall, the reason i love watching kdrama’s is cause of the one-season format a opposed to the multiple seasons with english-spoken series
callie
July 25, 2017 at 2:09 AM
Yeah, I feel it lends itself more to shows like AOY which are very character driven. All these crime shows getting s2’s though… I feel they don’t have the lasting power.
Sia
July 25, 2017 at 4:06 AM
next thing we know, we’ll have spinoffs from spinoffs and lots of seasons (CSI franchise), oh dear, please no, agreed, crime and romcom shows shouldnt last more than a season unless there is a subplot that could be interesting and even then,
callie
July 25, 2017 at 7:22 AM
So many dramas lose steam at the end of 16 or 20 episodes anyway… I think we’d get some real crazy sh*t if writers have to stretch things over multiple seasons suddenly.
Sia
July 25, 2017 at 12:04 PM
true! i tend to lose interest like 3/4 in of most series, sometimes i force myself to finish but more often than not i just drop them and read recaps to know how it ended
callie
July 22, 2017 at 11:11 PM
Me, reacting to downvotes 8 weeks ago: 😢😲😢😲
Me, now: [drags cigarette] \”Pull the trigger you cowards.\”
Pickwick12
July 23, 2017 at 12:09 AM
I know which thread you’re referring to, and I was *this close* to putting a disclaimer on my comment of “I know the downvotes are coming, so bring them on” 😉 Your comments were very well said, though 😉
callie
July 23, 2017 at 12:35 AM
Thanks girl 😉
You too.
callie
July 21, 2017 at 7:58 PM
Me: \”I should check out some of the drama premieres from this week…\”
Me: *watches variety shows instead*
bebeswtz
July 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM
This is me, too!! lol
purplelatte
July 21, 2017 at 9:09 PM
Recommend an episode of a show pleaaase. I’m in need of a good laugh. 😀
bebeswtz
July 21, 2017 at 9:16 PM
“Hyori’s Homestay” a.k.a. “Hyori’s Bed and Breakfast” is a really good show!!
callie
July 21, 2017 at 9:17 PM
Do you watch Running Man? Their recent episodes have been really good.
earthna
July 21, 2017 at 9:42 PM
Knowing Brothers ep 83 with Zico and Yonghwa was really funny.
purplelatte
July 22, 2017 at 12:08 AM
Cool! I haven’t seen most of these. I’ll check ’em out. 😀
purplelatte
July 22, 2017 at 12:08 AM
Thanks! ^_^
ObsessedMuch
July 22, 2017 at 2:15 AM
God this is so me! Variety shows are suddenly the only shows I look forward to now! #dramaslump
callie
July 22, 2017 at 2:52 AM
2017 has been such a slump year 🙁
Variety is the only thing bringing me joy right now
ObsessedMuch
July 22, 2017 at 4:06 AM
It has been Running Man, New Journey to the West, weekly Idol and knowing brothers for me… I am surviving on them!😃
callie
July 20, 2017 at 8:19 PM
Sigh. I was slightly interested in Man Who Dies to Live when it was first announced. But the way they\’ve gone on to portray Arabs and Muslims is just disrespectful.
transient
July 20, 2017 at 8:59 PM
What happened? I don’t plan on picking up that drama but might read its recap.
callie
July 20, 2017 at 10:12 PM
Just a lot of ignorance and stereotypes. It’s obvious very little actual research about either went into the show. The PD/Writer’s preconceptions of them seem to be informed by a mix of Aladdin and post 9-11 stereotypes.
astromantic
July 20, 2017 at 9:06 PM
I’m glad it wasn’t just me who was a little put off (and that was just from the teasers)…
peichi
July 20, 2017 at 10:43 PM
Haven’t watched yet, but I was really looking forward to it. Is the racism that bad? I kind of expected that tbh, but I was hoping that any jokes/stereotypes about Arabs and Muslims would be dropped quickly once the guy goes back to Korea. Or does it continue even after that?
wakimary
July 21, 2017 at 12:16 AM
Its so bad…a number of Beanies & I were talking about it in 1 post of @hannaehh screen caps alone annoyed me.
wakimary
July 21, 2017 at 12:22 AM
my apologies but I’d rather not post the screen cap I saw. And that disturbing, annoying scene is just in Ep 1. I can’t move past it, that I’ll not watch the rest of the drama
callie
July 17, 2017 at 3:29 PM
If you\’re watching a drama and Kim Young Ok isn\’t playing the halmoni, is it really a drama?
earthna
July 17, 2017 at 7:14 PM
Have you seen her in Hip Hop Tribe? She’s still awesome even while rapping.
callie
July 17, 2017 at 7:38 PM
Yes! She’s amazing.
callie
July 16, 2017 at 12:50 AM
I would just like to take the time to thank not only God, but Gong Yoo\’s stylist, for all the tank tops he wore in Coffee Prince. 🙌
callie
July 14, 2017 at 6:14 PM
❤ ❤ ❤
Anyone else wasting time on this app?
hannaehh
July 14, 2017 at 6:16 PM
Haha no. What’s this app?
callie
July 14, 2017 at 6:23 PM
Guess Korean Drama
It’s like the ultimate drama fan quiz, lol.
dee
July 14, 2017 at 6:44 PM
is it available in playstore?
callie
July 14, 2017 at 6:46 PM
Yup! I have it on my android. Not sure if it’s available in all countries though.
dee
July 14, 2017 at 7:06 PM
I just installed it!
but I can’t guess the 2nd quest already lol.
hannaehh
July 14, 2017 at 6:58 PM
Thanks! It’s available in App store. Yay!
ravennightstar
July 14, 2017 at 6:31 PM
LOL! Thanks @callie! I just installed it:)
ObsessedMuch
July 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM
This looks interesting! I will download it and waste some time too😄
earthna
July 14, 2017 at 8:41 PM
No but I just installed it. I guess I will be.
AussieGrl
July 14, 2017 at 8:47 PM
me too.
chingu
July 15, 2017 at 12:51 AM
Uh, NOW I will. 💃🏻
Rainbow Unicorn
July 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM
did u have to introduce another addictive kdrama lurking place?! haha! now i gotta install it too!
callie
July 13, 2017 at 10:29 PM
I know it\’s considered the same as like a star sign or MBTI type, but I still find it odd that k-actors and kpop stars\’ blood types are so easily accessible. I feel really weird having that information…
chingu
July 15, 2017 at 1:23 AM
Now that you mention it… 😧
callie
July 12, 2017 at 8:59 PM
If I were to compliment kdramas on just one thing, it would be that they allow their shows to be silly. I\’m getting tired of this fake gritty \”realism\” that seems to be dominating western media. Not everything has to be miserable to be \”realistic.\”
callie
July 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM
Does anyone else go through drama mood swings? I seem to alternate from watching absurdist fluffy romcoms to nothing but murder shows for the following weeks. Like every few months.
ST
July 11, 2017 at 2:04 AM
I do. 🙂 Right now I’m enjoying psychopaths…
Jig
July 11, 2017 at 2:14 AM
I’ve started doing that. I don’t want to get rid of the taste of good fluff with other fluff so I watch something heavier until I can move on.
callie
July 11, 2017 at 2:17 AM
Yeah. If I watch something too similar afterwards I feel like I’m cheating on the show I’ve just finished 😂
Sia
July 11, 2017 at 2:23 AM
have it all the time, i can sometimes watch 3-4 romcoms back-to-back before just switching over to scifi or thrillers or cdrama’s or …for a while 🙂
Ahj ❤ ❥ ♡ ♥ ღ
July 11, 2017 at 6:21 AM
Believe me, that’s normal. HAHA!
gadis
July 11, 2017 at 5:46 PM
I always have drama mood swing. And an extreme one at that too. I switched so fast from craving one genre to another. From romcom, murder thriller, tearjerker, sometimes even to makjang.
callie
July 10, 2017 at 6:49 PM
We\’ve gotten to the cycle where a lot of my faves are enlisting this year and it\’s making me nervous 😂
callie
July 9, 2017 at 5:09 PM
KFC’s Goblin look-alike is probably my favorite thing currently.
callie
July 8, 2017 at 3:33 PM
The amount of male leads who would actually be terrible boyfriends is… too much frankly.
Jig
July 8, 2017 at 4:03 PM
Lol true enough. They look swoony on screen but only because it’s not happening to you lol
There are a few hidden gems, but then they seem too perfect to ever be real (Twenty Again, Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-gu, Queen In-hyun’s Man, I Hear Your Voice).
callie
July 8, 2017 at 4:22 PM
Yeah, 2017 has been a better year in general, but then I’ll see a wrist grab or something in a currently airing show and I’m like, still?
Jig
July 8, 2017 at 4:49 PM
I’ve never been as bothered with the wrist-grab as most people seem to be. It depends on the context. I did like the subversion of it in The Bride of the Water God, though.
Midnight
July 9, 2017 at 8:40 AM
I don’t think it has ever been addressed from a cultural point of view it this site, but I have sometimes wondered if it has sprung from the korean custom of limited touching and skinship with strangers. Like maybe taking the hand if a near stranger is frowned upon so they have gotten into the habit of taking the wrist?
Maybe it was at first with strangers only and then they got used to doing it with everybody. 😁
Of course this is pure conjecture. 😊
Jig
July 9, 2017 at 10:29 AM
Yeah, I would be interested in how culture plays in it. I wonder if it’s addressed in dramabeans’ book…
Ek Ladhki Thi is Kim Eun-sooks no 1 fan
July 8, 2017 at 6:04 PM
Yeah, I’m not bothered by it if the guy doesn’t look like he yanking her around. If they’re just doing it as opposed to holding hands I don’t mind. Maybe it’s different cultural perspectives?
callie
July 8, 2017 at 7:29 PM
It’s the dragging her around part that bothers me. Or stopping her by force. Which is 99% of when its used. It’s also just a cliche in general…
Jig
July 9, 2017 at 10:26 AM
I think why it doesn’t bother me is that the girl can always say no if she truly wanted to. I’ve never seen one done so forcefully that the girl couldn’t easily enough break the contact if she wanted to. I read it as a subconscious decision that she does want to be removed from the situation or stopped from leaving. Of course you could read it in a feminist perspective that the woman thinks that she can’t break the contact because she believes that the man does have ultimate control over her and she has no power, but I think that’s being too pessimistic. But, again it depends on context for me.
callie
July 9, 2017 at 11:23 AM
If a girl wants to leave or not go somewhere then the guy should respect it. Not get physical to prevent her from from doing so. It’s as simple as that.
Jig
July 12, 2017 at 8:52 PM
If the wrist grab bothers people, then the situation should be seen as both of them being at fault. The guy should respect her, but she should stand up for herself. The guy always touches her spontaneously and out of desperation. He’s not thinking nefarious thoughts towards her. If she has a problem with him grabbing her, then it should be up to her to break contact. By her choosing not to, then she is letting him have control. Whether he should have that control or not can be our judgment, but you can’t blame him for her letting him have that control.
callie
July 13, 2017 at 2:25 AM
Sorry, but that is the definition of victim blaming. Kdrama heroines are rarely ever not written as subordinate to their male leads. There are societal pressures, and sometimes professional ones (i.e. work dramas), that DO prevent them from voicing rejection because it would negatively impact them. And we HAVE had male leads force themselves on female leads while they voice rejection anyway. So the female can’t win. She’ll be seen as secretly “wanting it” anyway. And that’s the kinda stuff that makes girls feel like they can’t say no in the first place. You can’t place the responsibility of the male’s actions on her.
callie
July 7, 2017 at 2:48 PM
Netflix\’s subs for Age of Youth are somehow worse that Dramafever\’s. And everyone ranks on Dramafever.
chingu
July 8, 2017 at 1:02 AM
Omg! I’m so glad you brought this up because I always wondered about the quality of the subs on Netflix. I don’t have it, but after finding out how many K-dramas are on there, I was curious about the quality of the subs–if they were accurate and specific/detailed.
callie
July 8, 2017 at 1:36 AM
I don’t know if the quality varies from drama to drama but for AOY, in just the first two eps there were translations that messed up key lines and jokes. Nothing that screws up anything really important, but still noticeable. I hope the other dramas might have better subs because Netflix has actually been good about getting more dramas lately, and their international content is growing. It’d be a shame if it was wasted on bad subs.
chingu
July 11, 2017 at 9:55 AM
Oh that sucks, though. I love it when I get the little jokes and/or meta used in shows. For regulars like us, it kinda takes away from the drama-watching experience, but as long as the main idea for each scene and overall show is portrayed well, then it is what it is. That’s why we have DB for situations like that–to fill us in on the gaps that the bad subs left!