Can’t accept the ending of circle…of course in BG’s place I would have saved the clone too, but the way they never acknowledged the death of real woojin was too painful to watch.
About cloning, so would we be happy with having an identical looking person, or keep making clones when we loss someone? What about the memories, the thoughts, the relationships we build with the real person then? Of all, only the villain park dong yeon, asks the right question, “if he’s woojin then what about your brother the real woojin? What does that make him?” I wish the ending was something of a reminiscence of the two brothers and their lovely camaraderie. Like the way they ended the show, it seemed like woojin never died. Plus, after staying with woojin for 11 episodes, to see his tragic ending was too much for the heart to take. If this was a book I don’t think people would have been able to connect to the writers with the conclusion they arrived. At least while reading, the face won’t have been able to deceive us..
Circle dealt with memories and how they give the identity to a person. Jung Yeon was Jung Yeon because she lived and made memories and formed relationships with everyone with that persona and she never regained Byul’s memories and thus lost her alienness(?). In a similar way, Jung Yeon, Bum Gyum and the others accepted the clone as Woo Jin because he had all the memories which made him Woo Jin. Even though, the original Woo Jin died, his memory was preserved in his clone and also new memories were made each day the clone lived. So I guess the memories are a person’s essence. But cloning does raise a lot of ethical questions which have no right answers.
Circle had a great premise but yeah the concepts tackle with sensitive issues, I still can’t buy the ‘because he has woojin’s memory, he is woojin part..’ Since it’s not him, not his body or soul. They just accepted their fate as it is, with the clone woojin, but which I felt is wrong for the clone too, he has a separate identity with different mind and soul, so why should he keep living in woojin’s shadow. I can understand where Jung yeon came from, she made that decision on her own of erasing her memory, it was still her…same goes for bum gyun yoo. But not in the case of woojin lol. Anyway sorry for whining over woojin since yesterday 😅
I agree with you. I am still challenged at the New Woojin, since he is not Woojin and it seemed like the writers wanted joon hyuk and us to forget the real person too with whom we spent 11 episodes and basically saw the whole show from his pov. I also think Prof. Park’s question wasn’t properly addressed. Even if the show focuses on memories, only memories don’t make a person.
This. Exactly ..you pretty much nailed it. We saw the show from woojin’s POV, so it is hard to forget him so easily and be satisfied with his replica, as you said, memory alone isn’t everything of a person, what about his traits, intellect, personality, what makes him him. I was a bit confused too with the show’s use of memory, or the definition of what makes a person ‘him’. It’s not a math’s equation which we can prove easily. Just because bum gyun has woojin’s memory too, we don’t say he is woojin, so why that rule applies for the clone? The principles were a bit too simplistic to agree with, imo.
So was the ending. I mean throughout the show, the guys in 2037 have been honestly dumb. They weren’t that smart and the villians were usually one step ahead. However they solved the whole Human B thing so easily like all the other powerful people in the world turn a blind eye toa powerful person being in trouble. I just thought it was too simply and easily resolved when these were the guys who were creating havoc in 2017. Nonetheless throughout the show 2017 has always been more smartly crafted and intriguing.
Honestly, he has the exact same memories so I do see him as Woo jin…..the thing is just…..the boy that died was also Woo jin. So I felt really sad for that boy called Woo jin that died surrounded by people and yet utterly alone on that hard pavement in the dark. He never got a happy ending. In his last moments he called out to his friend and his brother, knowing that he wouldn’t be able to keep his promise, that he wouldn’t be able to see them ever again.
That there exists a clone of him does not take away from that poor boys tragic fate. It just takes away some of the sadness felt by the people he left behind. I did want them to morn Woo Jin a bit more though.
Bubbles yeah that’s what my beef with the show is too. They purely ignored the woojin who dies alone on the road, reaching out for the star as if that was the last memory of his brother and byul. Also when circulate 3 was describing to bum gyun what woo jin said to him before he left..that he’s scared, that he will be back, and not to forget him, bum gyun upon hearing this, hugs woojin 2 and tells him it must have been hard for him. I wished he said it looking up to the sky addressing the woojin that died, his real brother. The way the show pretty much ignored the loss of the main protagonist of the show , that kind of doesn’t do justice to the fighter that woojin was, or his resilience. I guess they wanted to pull off a pure science fiction move, and went for something totally drastic.
I can’t reply to your comment so I will just write my reply here. I think that both, the Woo jin that died and the one that was in front of him deserved to hear those words but considering that the Woo jin that died…is dead, I understand that he said it to the boy in front of him – however- I did also not feel all that comfortable with that scene and I def understand what you mean. As it was shown it almost felt like the brother was just lying to himself or using Woo jin 4 (Circulate 3 so probably the 3rd clone and as follows the 4th Woo jin) as a proxy. If they would have acknowledged Woo jin’s death though, I wonder if Woo jin 4 would have continued to have an identity crisis. It’s probably also simply because of the small number of episodes, they didn’t have enough time for an appropriate amount of grief.
I feel like they just wanted to find an ethical way of pairing up an alien with a human- lets make him a clone instead. But both of you are right they should have mourned him more or better never killed him in first place but not forget him at all.
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fay17
June 28, 2017 at 4:59 AM
Can’t accept the ending of circle…of course in BG’s place I would have saved the clone too, but the way they never acknowledged the death of real woojin was too painful to watch.
fay17
June 28, 2017 at 5:10 AM
About cloning, so would we be happy with having an identical looking person, or keep making clones when we loss someone? What about the memories, the thoughts, the relationships we build with the real person then? Of all, only the villain park dong yeon, asks the right question, “if he’s woojin then what about your brother the real woojin? What does that make him?” I wish the ending was something of a reminiscence of the two brothers and their lovely camaraderie. Like the way they ended the show, it seemed like woojin never died. Plus, after staying with woojin for 11 episodes, to see his tragic ending was too much for the heart to take. If this was a book I don’t think people would have been able to connect to the writers with the conclusion they arrived. At least while reading, the face won’t have been able to deceive us..
vardinihaeyo
June 28, 2017 at 5:56 AM
Circle dealt with memories and how they give the identity to a person. Jung Yeon was Jung Yeon because she lived and made memories and formed relationships with everyone with that persona and she never regained Byul’s memories and thus lost her alienness(?). In a similar way, Jung Yeon, Bum Gyum and the others accepted the clone as Woo Jin because he had all the memories which made him Woo Jin. Even though, the original Woo Jin died, his memory was preserved in his clone and also new memories were made each day the clone lived. So I guess the memories are a person’s essence. But cloning does raise a lot of ethical questions which have no right answers.
fay17
June 28, 2017 at 6:59 AM
Circle had a great premise but yeah the concepts tackle with sensitive issues, I still can’t buy the ‘because he has woojin’s memory, he is woojin part..’ Since it’s not him, not his body or soul. They just accepted their fate as it is, with the clone woojin, but which I felt is wrong for the clone too, he has a separate identity with different mind and soul, so why should he keep living in woojin’s shadow. I can understand where Jung yeon came from, she made that decision on her own of erasing her memory, it was still her…same goes for bum gyun yoo. But not in the case of woojin lol. Anyway sorry for whining over woojin since yesterday 😅
wapz
June 28, 2017 at 9:51 AM
I agree with you. I am still challenged at the New Woojin, since he is not Woojin and it seemed like the writers wanted joon hyuk and us to forget the real person too with whom we spent 11 episodes and basically saw the whole show from his pov. I also think Prof. Park’s question wasn’t properly addressed. Even if the show focuses on memories, only memories don’t make a person.
fay17
June 28, 2017 at 11:28 AM
This. Exactly ..you pretty much nailed it. We saw the show from woojin’s POV, so it is hard to forget him so easily and be satisfied with his replica, as you said, memory alone isn’t everything of a person, what about his traits, intellect, personality, what makes him him. I was a bit confused too with the show’s use of memory, or the definition of what makes a person ‘him’. It’s not a math’s equation which we can prove easily. Just because bum gyun has woojin’s memory too, we don’t say he is woojin, so why that rule applies for the clone? The principles were a bit too simplistic to agree with, imo.
wapz
June 28, 2017 at 12:26 PM
So was the ending. I mean throughout the show, the guys in 2037 have been honestly dumb. They weren’t that smart and the villians were usually one step ahead. However they solved the whole Human B thing so easily like all the other powerful people in the world turn a blind eye toa powerful person being in trouble. I just thought it was too simply and easily resolved when these were the guys who were creating havoc in 2017. Nonetheless throughout the show 2017 has always been more smartly crafted and intriguing.
bubbles
June 28, 2017 at 10:56 AM
Honestly, he has the exact same memories so I do see him as Woo jin…..the thing is just…..the boy that died was also Woo jin. So I felt really sad for that boy called Woo jin that died surrounded by people and yet utterly alone on that hard pavement in the dark. He never got a happy ending. In his last moments he called out to his friend and his brother, knowing that he wouldn’t be able to keep his promise, that he wouldn’t be able to see them ever again.
That there exists a clone of him does not take away from that poor boys tragic fate. It just takes away some of the sadness felt by the people he left behind. I did want them to morn Woo Jin a bit more though.
fay17
June 28, 2017 at 11:38 AM
Bubbles yeah that’s what my beef with the show is too. They purely ignored the woojin who dies alone on the road, reaching out for the star as if that was the last memory of his brother and byul. Also when circulate 3 was describing to bum gyun what woo jin said to him before he left..that he’s scared, that he will be back, and not to forget him, bum gyun upon hearing this, hugs woojin 2 and tells him it must have been hard for him. I wished he said it looking up to the sky addressing the woojin that died, his real brother. The way the show pretty much ignored the loss of the main protagonist of the show , that kind of doesn’t do justice to the fighter that woojin was, or his resilience. I guess they wanted to pull off a pure science fiction move, and went for something totally drastic.
bubbles
June 28, 2017 at 12:20 PM
I can’t reply to your comment so I will just write my reply here. I think that both, the Woo jin that died and the one that was in front of him deserved to hear those words but considering that the Woo jin that died…is dead, I understand that he said it to the boy in front of him – however- I did also not feel all that comfortable with that scene and I def understand what you mean. As it was shown it almost felt like the brother was just lying to himself or using Woo jin 4 (Circulate 3 so probably the 3rd clone and as follows the 4th Woo jin) as a proxy. If they would have acknowledged Woo jin’s death though, I wonder if Woo jin 4 would have continued to have an identity crisis. It’s probably also simply because of the small number of episodes, they didn’t have enough time for an appropriate amount of grief.
wapz
June 28, 2017 at 12:23 PM
I feel like they just wanted to find an ethical way of pairing up an alien with a human- lets make him a clone instead. But both of you are right they should have mourned him more or better never killed him in first place but not forget him at all.