Beans of Wisdom: Tree Oppa and an abundance of Kims

by DB Staff

This week in Beans of Wisdom…

Nil writes about the possibility of Na PD kidnapping the Goblin cast in “News bites: January 21, 2017” comment #3.3.1:

If i were sungjae, i would bring a small backpack that equipped with a pair or two clothes change, toiletries, korean survival food (as in gocuchang to go or such) and most importantly hidden money put randomly all over the bag pockets. Then i would bring the backpack whereever/whenever i go. Just in case.

blnmom:

Haha, the price of success: living in constant fear of being kidnapped by Na PD with no money or underwear.

In last week’s “Beans of Wisdom: Death and abandoned cakes,” it was mentioned that Goblin’s female leads aren’t as fleshed out as their male counterparts. The issue was explored in detail in the comments, starting with Di sharing an opposing point of view in #4.1:

While GR and Goblin mostly talked of death and waiting like old souls do, Sunnyi and Euntak were given dialogues of life. Dialogues of little things to appreciate in life, the small joys like popcorn, etc. I was particularli impressed with Sunni and her wisdom in dealing with Euntak, and her casual sayings and matter of fact matters of doing things like nothings which showed lots of understanding about human nature and people (which is how she’s such a great boss!)… but most of all, at her reaction of reincarnation and love. She knew what she wanted, to live her life in the present, not in the past. She was understanding too when she dated “Kim Woo Bin,” and was aware of her own feelings, even how bizarre those feelings are, but accepting the weirdness, embracing something different even though it wasn’t normal. It’s not something lots of people can do. Often people reject happiness when it comes to them in forms not used to. I think she was a mature character, but about human nature, self-awareness, etc.

Like I said, Euntak and her boss were alwais about the value of life, living, being humans, embracing human emotions, being aware of the “shallowness” of certain feelings, like attraction to the attractive, even as irrational as that is, and understanding them and not be ruled by them, like how Sunni could walk away because of her self-awareness.

As for Euntak, I wouldn’t put it quite like that. Rather than Goblin being her sole source of happiness, he was what was missing in her life to complete happiness. Losing a loved ones always leave an empty space in life. I find it believable when in real life, even the most richest, successful people living their dreams will find their happiness incomplete if the loved ones are missing, or gone during that “happiness.” Finding someone to love fills that void.

olliemolllie:

Being self-aware is a skill and sign of maturity, which GR and Goblin frankly lacked compared to Sunny in most scenes. Self-awareness like how was so eloquently said above is the beginning to finding happiness, through little things, through understanding of what is important, and what is not, what works for one, etc. Sunny was especially mature in that era, and not something most people can do. She was so mature that she was casual about showing her maturity. I felt like she always said things which showed a lot wisdom and understanding of human character as if she talked about the weather. I was awfully impressed with that. lmao. Like she must be a deep thinker to have so much understanding kind of thing? Like a math professor talking about a “basic” thing like calculus to a student. Oh, it’s super simple. lol..

Her character is doing things loads and loads of people would find it hard to do. Rejecting a doomed love, no matter how strong the attraction. If she knows she can’t forgive, walk away. Choosing to live her current life rather than dwell in the past life matters. And small things like the comment above said. When encountering a “fatal attraction,” deal with it rationally. Go on dates, enjoy that weirdness, and if he’s too much, walk away, don’t let herself be abused, right? She doesn’t let him or anyone get away with abusing her. It’s a skill too. Dealing with strong feelings, fated love, and still choosing to live her own life in the end. Knowing when to give in those feelings, when not to, when it’s too much to handle and still appreciating them for what they are. I kinda loved her character to be honest. She feels both so real because of her feelings and emotional reactions to things, and so much more mature because of her logical actions in the face of those reaction. Hearteuuuuuu. Girl crush.

Ar writes in #7.3:

While I do view Sunny and the other Goblin characters more favorably than you do, I do recognize there is an overall problem in kdramas writing that seems to give the male characters meatier roles and writing that make male characters more likable and forgivable. Why is it that we go crazy over and fall in love with the male characters? Why do they tend to be more memorable? If you blame the actress for undelivering, then is that really all her fault when she was picked in the first place? I struggled with that during Scarlet Heart.

It’s a large gap of having big expectations for female characters who often serve as the eyes of the mostly female viewing audience (why do clingy females get a worse rap than clingy males?) and the dramas tending to delivering less strong writing for female characters. Why can’t female characters appreciate handsome faces while philosophizing or getting revenge or sword fighting assassins in the night or doing something heroic (which I’m glad Eun tak got to do).

these are problems not only in kdramas of course. And I still love kdramas, though I think stronger writing for female characters can only improve the genre and do justice to the actresses who often bear some of the hate and annoyance people have for their characters. I felt really bad for Kim Go Eun, Go Ara, and Park Hye Soo recently.

bananachocolate:

I agree that female characters tend to get bad rep all the time and in my opinion, the issue lies within the writing (and other factors as well).

Sadly, writing a compelling male character earns more viewers since a lot of the people who watch the tv channels at home are older females. With more viewers = more ratings, and of course more profit.

I think people have large expectations for the female characters and criticize them more because majority of kdrama viewers are females and the opposite gender attracts them. Since most are females (shoutout to male kdrama viewers though) , they know what it’s like being a female (obvious) and thus, are thinking of the what-ifs when witnessing a female character going downhill or becoming excessively annoying in their eyes. It’s like a friend looking at another friend and seeing what actions that one friend could have taken to avoid such and such. It’s definitely frustrating to see a character of your own gender acting in a certain way because you wouldn’t act that way.

This is purely coincidence but I want to mention that from my own experience one gender tends to forgive the other gender more so than someone of the same gender.

Ar:

I know what you mean. One of the reasons is that when we see a woman acting out what could be an unpleasant stereotype for women(like being shrill or nosy or moping or showing weakness), we want to distance ourselves as much as possible from the woman. And as a society, we tend to hold women to a higher standard. Two guys arguing is normal. Two women arguing…well shouldnt we be above all of that? And ugh, how catty and embarrassing. A dad feeding his baby is admirable and worthy of applause. A mom doing the same while still recovering from pushing a 7 lb baby out: whatever. Now that more of my friends are new moms, I am more aware of this and try not to hurt them by diminishing their efforts. and I try to be aware of those biases when I criticize female kdramas characters too. How much of it is writing? How much of it is because I have those biases?

KHJ:

You make a good point about double standards in viewers’ feelings involving different genders. Sure Sunny had less screen time than Grim Reaper, but to me, she’s no less of a character. They were pretty equal all things said. She cried, he cried. She asked him out, he flailed. She rejected him, he sought her out. She discovers he’s a Grim Reaper, he’s now going away from her. He made the decision to recover memories, and with those memories, she makes the decision to end the relationship. She was still concerned for him, but she made that decision for herself. She was glad to meet her brother, and was resolute to keep her promise to live in happiness this lifetime to him, even if that meant distancing herself from a long-past Goblin brother to lead a normal life. She had resolution, wisdom, and a caring side and love and affection for her part-time worker. She had sass and strength. She had heartbreak too, and longing, and wishes, and a will to live her own life. But in the end, Grim Reaper is everything, and Sunny is not complex. And I’m left confused at how our views can differ so much.

And Jamie, the original commenter in last week’s post, ends the discussion nicely with:

Thanks, Sammie above and gabobobobo. I didn’t mean to start a fight with what started (for me) as a small response to Ar’s comment about roles for women in K-dramas.

I watch Korean dramas not because I prefer more conservative entertainment, but because I am Korean as well as American. (I also watch American and British shows.) I grew up with my mom watching K-dramas, too.

For me, personally, it’s natural to compare as I have family in both countries, and, for example, I grew up with a Buddhist parent and a Christian parent. I do tend to analyze writers’ intent and culture and the larger story, because I am comparing my two home countries’ sets of values (and there’s more than one set in any country). I appreciate hearing what other Beanies have to say, too. (I like what you said, gabobobobo, about how Eun Tak’s death was about the innocence that wins over greed.)

Basically, I don’t think anything happens in a vacuum: our cultural biases lead us to pay attention to certain things and ignore others.

I do realize that lots of people prefer to just enjoy the show without overthinking things. ? But I think we should all be able to discuss and enjoy in our own ways, as long as we don’t get too personal or inflammatory (and I don’t think I did either).

Right now we have passed the Western New Year date and in a few days it will be the Chinese New Year. Wishing you all a very happy New Year!

We couldn’t post the entire discussion, but you can read all the comments here. It’s definitely illuminating and helps to understand how we view dramas differently.

A lot of beanies have written poignant goodbyes to the Goblin crew. Starting with clairie in “The Lonely Shining Goblin: Episode 16 (Final)” comment #2:

Eun Tak’s first life, we were there along the journey. Their first meeting: the car accident, at the beach, them falling in love, being in love, getting married (GY in a tuxedo with his hair up! *swoon*), enjoying newlywed life and the pain of losing each other. We’ve witnessed it all. Their happiness, their struggles & heartbreaks, their friendships. That’s what life is. Of course, it’s pitiful that he had to live while she dies. But it’s HIS choice. He chose to remain instead of eternal peace, she, however, a human, so death is a given. It’s a sad love after all.

D

It’s not just a sad love, it’s an eternal sad love, the kind Eun-tak chose ?

And the kind Goblin chose. He could have found peace, but he chose to be an immortal to be with her (as rain and snow first). So his immortal-self is no longer punished in the divine sense. He just chose a sad love instead of peace. Poetic I think.

merciliee

this drama was always about choice. the choice one makes despite divine will. Overall, I think it’s a good ending. Lonely Goblin went from seeking death, to valuing life and love. From centuries with no purpose and emptiness, to spending wait time for Eun-tak, having something to look forward to. Not bad compared to “normal” people. At least, it’s something he chose this time around, not something imposed on him.

Sara shares how Goblin made her love her family more in comment #95:

Last night, when I finished watching ep 16, I went straight to my 4 year olds bed and stayed there hugging him all night. This morning, when my husband asked me why I was crying, I said bc I love him and my family sooo much. Then he added it might be a good idea to stop watching kdrama for a while… ?

Before you all think Im going all cheesy here, i just want to say that this story is one of those that reminds you to cherish your love ones and enjoy life to the fullest. It made me feel such raw emotions that I do think I need a break. Will come back for sure, but need some time to digest such powerful impact.

Thank you Goblin for a wonderful, unforgettable story, thank you actors for such an overwhelming delivery.
Thank you dramabeans for letting me be part of this fantastic website and see you all soon!!!!!!

Love and be loved!!!!!!!

Jamie also talks about family and the importance of living out one’s life in #127.1.1:

Here’s what I think: life itself is a bittersweet gift.

A few days after my first child was born, it suddenly occurred to me as I was holding him that one day he would die. I broke down into helpless, hopeless tears of grief, and my husband couldn’t comfort me. It didn’t matter to me that it might happen after my baby had grown to be an old man, surrounded by his loved ones after a good life; I was just horrified at the thought that he was mortal and mortality meant he would die—and I could not bear the thought he would have to endure that. What if it was painful? What if he was frightened? I felt I should not have brought my baby into the world if one day he would have to leave it. It was a hormonal letdown of sorts, but the emotions and thoughts were very real to me.

But now I’m so grateful that my children are in the world, and that life is there for them to experience, with all its joys and sorrows. Of course I don’t want them to be hurt; but being hurt is part of life, as is healing, love, and joy. Pain and grief will come—that’s a given in human life, but love is not lost, love is never wasted.

I love that Eun Tak appreciated life so much, and was determined to survive even her most difficult circumstances. I love that in the end, Kim Shin felt that life was not just punishment and a burden he was desperate to set down, but one he willingly bore in order to share love and joy, adequate days and shining days with Eun Tak.

Klurker becomes a teatotaler in #24.2.1:

Everyone, I’m preparing the Drama tea of oblivion for those who want to start on a clean slate, when we get reincarnated in the next threads.

However, I choose not to drink it myself, cause I want to remember every squee, every pain, every laughter, and every cringing moment.

Until we all see each other again. On to the drama afterlife.

(@_@)

Beanies try to guess what one of the leads is pocketing in “Hidden backs and handholds for Man to Man.” Gem writes in #3:

It looks like her smartphone to me.

Sim:

yeah like she’s putting it in her pocket

voice:

would the pocket really be in the middle though?

Klurker:

Shhh … it’s a (whispers) secret pocket. It’s put in the middle so you won’t know it’s there.

YY:

It’s a special comb case that looks like a smart phone. It’s for combing the tassels on her sleeves. They get into knots when the wind blows. That’s why it’s put in the middle pocket. Because it’s special.

siesta:

a pocket in the ass crack region should be sown sideways to maximize space

aoiaheen:

The next fashion trend– ass crack pocket jeans. Warning : don’t sit down.

And in case you’re confused like us, Van adds:

Oh no, I zoomed in to see what she was holding and then I noticed the middle lining of her pants in between the two back pockets and realized she’s standing with her body slightly twisted and turned, so it looks like she’s sliding the object down the middle but it’s really into the back pocket. Okay, weird asscrack pocket theory debunked!

Thank you! Now we can sleep at night.

Lord Cobol has a question in “Hwarang: Episode 11” #18:

Why did A-ro just stand there after the first arrow? Forests have these things called “trees”, which are reliably reported to be arrow-proof if you stand behind them instead of in front. And the one the arrow hit is proven highly arrow-resistant.

nmaxx:

So Sun-woo could save her.

Lord Cobol:

Exactly. Not much drama in pulling arrows out of a wounded tree.

redfox:

… and removing its´ bark to treat the wound. though I think I would watch a drama about a heroic tree that has to bare with excessive cryings, spilling secrets stupidly, stray arrows and whatnot. bet the tree has a grudge on all of them by the end and thinks: “Hopscotch! It is I who will become the king of this nation!”

transient:

Because wounded oppa warrants topless oppa with the excuse of treating the wound. Topless tree? Not so sexy.

Trouble is brewing in Bromancelandia, but redfox puts it in perspective in “Hwarang: Episode 12” comment #18:

I really dont want any friendships to break but I guess iron has to see some heat before it can be forged into something strong. so we endure it all.

earthna shares a way to deal with the cliffhangers in “Voice: Episode 3” comment #1:

This show’s cliffhangers will be the death of me so I won’t watch ep 4 until ep 5 comes out. Thanks for the recaps!

ET:

It’s not ODD that they love to leave us hanging.
How shall we get EVEN with them?

Klurker:

Let’s not EVEN think about being at ODDS with the show this early in the game. :p

A writes in #6:

I really like how this show has been flirting with the theme of the cycle of violence and how people can get caught up in it in many different ways. Experiencing violence at the hands of another (or secondhand, like Kwon-joo) can cause others to consider violence (the mother in this episode, Jin-hyuk, even Kwon-joo threatened to kill the murderer). I hope they go deeper with it, it seems like it could be a powerful theme.

Just don’t go full TEN on us please!

spazmo writes in “Top 10 favorite drama girlfriends” comment #2:

it’s nice to have stories about women who are not conniving to steal one another’s men behind their backs, omg…

men come and go, but girlfriends are forever! they are with you when you get a new boyfriend/husband, when you break up/divorce, when you have your baby/ies, when your children get married, when you lose your parents…

women/girlfriends rock!

While TiaC asks in #26:

Did anyone else notice how very recent most of these dramas are? 7 out of 10 were from 2015 or later and not one was before 2010!

I wonder if it’s that the most recent ones are just more likely to stay with us, or if it’s the more unfortunate reality that writers and networks haven’t given as much thought to female characters and friendships until the past few years. Just some food for thought…

Kakakash reacts to a certain plot point in comment #34 of “Legend of the Blue Sea: Episode 20 (Final)”:

The thing that keeps nagging at me tho, whyyy whyy ohhhh whyyyy did she have to erase his memory in the end? I was counting on this drama not to do this to us! And from our heroine no less! Heo joon jae’s sweet and heartbreaking efforts during the three years apart softened the blow while I was watching this episode since all I could do was sigh at how moved I was, but man, what a setback! All of that character development for Shim Cheong, who was slowly learning through example both in the past and present timelines that just because she possessed this power didnt mean she could willy nilly take everyone’s memory away! What is she, reaper!? Everyone else had a developing story arc, everyone from Stepmom, Dad, Cop, Ma dae young, Nam doo, Chi hyun, Shi ah, even Tae oh! Okayy granted, a lot of them were short arcs, but they were there. Of course, Heo joon jae having had the biggest arc, probably with the most admirable character development. But the way they built it up around this issue of memory erasure (or perhaps thats just the way I saw it?) I expected Shim Cheong to really impress us with her maturity. It wasnt too much to ask, was it? I didnt ask her to get a Phd in quantum physics did I? I just asked her not to make the same bad decision again! And it’s not like they framed it in a way in which her decision actually felt justified, given that Joon jae had to go through so much heartbreak just to hang on to his memories. Add in everyone else’s amnesia and confusion and it just all felt…pointless. She deliberately erased their feelings, love, sacrifices, a whole chunk of their lives!

Perhaps I hadn’t watched enough dramas to be this disappointed yet, but I finally get what javabeans and girlfriday and a lot of other beanies and commenters were talking about when they criticized Ra On’s dying character in MDBC…I would dare to add that its not just a problem of giving up on the heroines’ character arcs, but further this tendency to glorify male character leads by giving them most of the credit for coming to all-inclusive, thoughtful, logical resolutions. To be fair I realize that dramas would not run with this trend if we, the predominantly female, fans didnt enjoy falling in love with and fantasizing and to some extend glorifying perfect male characters…its fun. Its just, I would like to find myself able to relate to our heroines more often. I wanna be impressed by them and genuinely moved by their actions and think to myself, I admire that, or in the least, I understand where she is…

Venus replies:

This question of why she erased memories seems to have frustrated a lot of viewers, but oddly enough I get it. Shim Cheong had just sustained a near fatal injury and needed to return to the sea to recover. 1) she would have no way to explain to her new family where she was going – let’s not forget the mermaid thing is stilll a secret except to Nam Doo – and 2) she honestly did not know whether she would survive let alone return. So from her perspective she was trying to protect them especially HJJ from the feeling of loss.

And when she returned, I saw comments asking well why come back if you erased his memories…for the same reason we sneak a peak at Kdramas/dramabeans at work or wherever else that would seem unreasonable…LOVE. Guilty pleasure. One last look to fulfill her desire. She needed to see him for her heart to be at peace and she was willing to accept th bittersweet reality that he may not remember her nor even love her but there was no way she could’ve stopped herself from going to him. Such is the nature of Love ❤️

Kakakash:

Lol Venus, so corny (it made me giggle) but so true. I see your point.
Its not so much her coming back that bothered me, I wanted her to do so so badly (especially since we saw in earlier episodes that memomry erasure didnt work so neatly as mermaids would ideally have it so I expected HJJ to remember something at least). I guess…I still can’t agree with decisions to alter someone’s cognition JUST to save them from uncomfortable truths, or so to speak sugercoat the experience. Doesnt make sense to me. I’m not saying it wouldnt have been complicated, and messy, and really sad (especially for HJJ). I suppose one could argue that given the ability, the power, shouldnt one consider using it? Sure, but a) it makes more sense narratively and hypothetically that merpeople would possess this power primarily for the stated reasons: to protect themselves from greedy hoomans, and b) lying/white-lies/sugercoating things ALWAYS has unintented consequences! Laugh at my cliched statement and persistence to this ideal, but I can argue for this till the day I am on old lady living with my twelve cats in the woods by myself that lying, no matter how noble, always has unintended consequences *eyetwitch* (not that I don’t lie and dont ever find myself in hot messes, yet a sugercoating of negative/depressing outcomes to this scale by making ppl forget her had me shaking my head a no-no).

Yea but I guess its my stubborness to see things in this particular way. I do respect the opinion that given the choice…; and further that Shim Cheong probably most likely acted emotionally, wanting to protect her loved one. I get it. Just don’t agree.

While JessA writes what would’ve made for a good epilogue in #38:

This is quite random but I just had an image of Chung and Joon-jae arguing and she starts crying and tells him to wait while she grabs a plastic bag. That would be hilarious!

Outfromlurking

I could help laughing at your imagination of them arguing and cheong grabbing a plastic bag to catch her pearls. How can one take her seriously then? Lol. I know if I were HJJ, I would not be able to keep a straight face lol.

redfox has a request in comment #25 of “Top 10 idol-actors in dramaland”:

culd you do Top 10 Right Hand Men (secretaries, managers etc)?

bbstl:

Love this idea, several spring to mind immediately! Although I suspect most are named “Secretary Kim” LOL.

redfox:

thats the best part about it. just list ten Secretary Kim´s. Honorable mentions would be Secretary Kim, Secretary Kim and manager Kim.

Purple Owl:

And then we beanies have to guess the actor and drama based on the description.

redfox:

we have to guess them by a soundbite of them saying “Yes, sir!”

Emanresu replies to a beanie who lost faith in pre-production. In “Shin Jae-ha, Lee Jong-seok reunite for While You Were Sleeping” comment #2.1, he writes:

No no no…

Let us not abandon a good thing simply due to a few misfires.

Pre-produced is what we want!

The sooner the ridiculous live-shoot system dies the better.

It inevitably results in shows chasing the fickle and nonsensical whims of the audience and leads to actor and actress fatigue (as well as crew), high potential for a poorly executed production and low quality scripts due to hurried re-writes and extensions. Half the problems with dramas being front loaded and coasting on thin storylines late in the game are due to the live-shoot system.

Drive a 20 inch stake through its heart like you think it’ll come back to haunt you like Dracula.

Douse it in kerosene, Light the f-cker and fire and stomp out the ashes.

Kill it. Kill it. Kill it.

Okay… so that was a lot of aggression.

Alas, the mere mention of the live-shoot system tends to do that to me.

My apologies.

We can’t agree with the violence, but we’re all for better work conditions in dramaland!

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