Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 19
by HeadsNo2
Love is a fickle thing indeed, and that love is put to the test this hour more than ever before. Does it pass that test? Not exactly. Su seems to have made up her mind when it comes to So, and any attempts to convince her to the contrary fall on deaf ears. Now all that’s left for us to do is hope and pray that we all come out of tomorrow’s finale unscathed.
EPISODE 19 RECAP
So finds Su sitting dejectedly in front of the Damiwon baths, and offers her his hand to help her stand. He’s been wanting to talk to her, he says, but Su rejects the offer: “I cannot go back to that room.”
He knows that this is about Chae-ryung, and reiterates to Su that all Chae-ryung ever did was fool her. But Su remembers differently, and insists that Chae-ryung was always sincere to her. (Really?) So asks if she’s really going to trust Chae-ryung over him, but Su just says she wants to leave the palace.
“What about me?” So replies, an edge to his voice. “Do you think I’ll let you go? You can never leave me.” But when he returns to his room and sees the folded wedding hanbok, he looks more conflicted than ever.
While bathing with an unnecessary amount of candles, Yeonhwa considers So’s proposal for her to leave her family behind and become his only queen. In return, he promised that he would make their future son the crown prince, so Yeonhwa decides that she’ll take him up on it—she wants Goryeo to belong to her son.
Su hands a small box of Chae-ryung’s belongings to Astronomer Choi, asking him to deliver it to the girl’s family. But when ninth prince Won passes by, she tells him in a flat voice that Chae-ryung has died, clearly waiting for a reaction he won’t give.
At his blasé attitude, Su reminds him that Chae-ryung died because of him, and warns that he’ll come to regret it. Won just scoffs that a king’s mistress thinks she can talk to him in such a way, with the “mistress” part catching her by surprise.
Word makes it fast to So, who tells Su that he’ll have to give her an official title as concubine in order for her to be considered more than a mere mistress. She’ll be second only to the queen—and if she has a child, she’ll be considered a second queen entirely.
Su insists that she doesn’t care for a title and simply wants to leave the palace, but So steamrolls over her. “You know that you can’t leave, so stop being so stubborn,” he says. He’s not saying it to hurt her, as he takes her hands in his and calls for an end to their bickering.
“Have you forgotten how long we had to be apart from each other?” he asks tenderly, adding that they shouldn’t let this fight ruin their relationship. But Su pulls her hand from his wordlessly. Sigh.
Meanwhile, Wook tries his hand at political maneuvering, deciding that he’ll act loyal to So outwardly for the time being while planning his next move. Whatever it is, it has something to do with Baek-ah, since both Wook and Won know how much So favors him.
Speaking of, Baek-ah can’t help but wonder why Woo-hee won’t marry him, especially now that they’ve had her registered under a noble family’s name. He guesses it might have to do with her stance on the treatment of people from Later Baekje, but no sooner does he promise to remedy that do they see dead runaway slaves from Baekje displayed for all to see. Woo-hee can barely contain her rage.
Astronomer Choi informs the king that slaves from Later Baekje have been setting fire to the houses of noble families. Wook speaks on behalf of the families being attacked as he asks that So send soldiers to protect them, though So is reluctant to enter a conflict that could bring more chaos.
Under pressure, So finally relents, but adds that the soldiers must use non-lethal force to subdue the slaves in order to avoid bloodshed. Strangely though, Wook proposes that Baek-ah lead the forces, despite Baek-ah never having even held a sword before.
His reasoning is that doing so would dispel rumors that So cares more for Baek-ah (whose mother was of Silla royalty) and the people of Later Baekje than he does for the people of Goryeo, considering that he had a former noblewoman of Later Baekje adopted into a noble family.
It could then be construed that someone close to So (Baek-ah) is being manipulated by someone from Later Baekje, should the marriage happen. Despite the accusations sounding ridiculous, Wook says it would be very easy for them to be spread as rumors.
Baek-ah wants to volunteer to lead the troops despite everything, hating the idea that he and Woo-hee are being used against So. Though So would rather go himself, it’d be seen as him taking sides, so Baek-ah reassures him that he’s not going to die.
We know it’s serious when we get a lovey-dovey scene with Baek-ah fixing Woo-hee’s hair into a bun, indicative of her new status as a wife. Though they aren’t officially married yet, Baek-ah promises that they will be as soon as he returns.
The rebelling slaves of Later Baekje read a posting of the king’s decree that they will not be harmed, and that those forced into slavery or taken from their homes will be reinstated as full citizens of Goryeo. However, the slaves think it’s all talk, and resume their march through the city.
Poor Baek-ah is so nervous as he prepares for the oncoming conflict that he drops his sword, though fourteenth prince Jung is there to pick it up for him, despite him supposedly being exiled to his hometown.
He helps Baek-ah into his armor and tells his brother to come back alive. Baek-ah asks if he received the hairpin from Su, and adds the message only now: “I want it.” He tells him exactly what Su told him, but he knows that it’s a cry for help.
He gets emotional as he asks Jung to remain a friend to Su as well as the king, since he doesn’t know what’s going to happen to him. Jung can only wish him a final farewell and depart, moments before Baek-ah looks up to see Woo-hee standing precariously atop the gates, where a banner reading “Later Three Kingdoms: Reunification of Goryeo, Baekje, and Silla” hangs.
The oncoming slaves stop at the sight of their princess, urging her away from the edge. Baek-ah runs up to confront her, knowing what it is that she’s thinking of doing.
All Woo-hee tells him to do is turn around, and with tears in his eyes, Baek-ah does as she asks. “If you see,” Woo-hee says tearfully, “you won’t ever forget.” And then, she steps off the ledge. Why is any of this happening?
“I thought I could ignore it and live my life,” we hear her say in voiceover as she falls to her death. “I was going to deny my parents. But I can’t turn my back on my people, who look to me as a mother. I don’t think I have the strength to live like that. Goryeo and Baekje, Gyeon Hwon [founder of Later Baekje] and Taejo Wang Geon. I will pay for their sins with my life. Perhaps… this is the reason I was born.” Was it, though?
Su sinks down when she hears the news, and So seems similarly stunned. We find Baek-ah clutching Woo-hee’s lifeless body and sobbing as her voiceover continues to tell him how much she loved him.
Later, he looks at the drawings he’d made of her, and thinks back to their memories together (including that time she stabbed him). Su finds him holding the hairpin he’d given her as he wonders why Woo-hee didn’t say anything to him.
He blames himself for not recognizing Woo-hee’s unhappiness sooner, believing himself to be shallow. But Su says it was Woo-hee who betrayed them, since in the end, she wasn’t selfless enough to care how they would feel.
Now, Baek-ah turns his ire to the king, guessing that he knew everything from the beginning. He confronts So over the deal he’d made with Woo-hee, though So insists that he didn’t know she would die because of it. All he wanted to do was save Baek-ah, and though he claims he didn’t know Woo-hee would commit suicide for it, even if he had, he would’ve done it again if it meant saving Baek-ah.
Baek-ah knows how his brother feels, but he can’t accept it. He gives the king a deep, formal bow, usually reserved for farewells. So recognizes this and desperately admits that he was in the wrong, but Baek-ah takes the blame upon himself. He wishes his hyung a long and healthy life and leaves, despite So calling for him to come back.
So approaches Yeonhwa in the bedchamber, asking if she’s sure about her decision. She says she is, and the rest is left to the imagination.
As he previously discussed with Won, Wook gifts So with a hunting hawk in front of the rest of the court. But when the cage is unveiled, the hawk inside is dead, and the serious music cues us into this being a Bad Omen.
Wook looks more shocked than anyone, having clearly not expected this, as one of the ministers cries out that it’s considered a curse to gift a king a dead hawk. Wook tries to explain that it was just a misunderstanding, but Won makes sure to place the blame squarely on his shoulders.
So asks Wook if he’s committing treason by placing such a curse upon him, and the entire court echoes the sentiment. Wook drops to his knees to beg for the king’s forgiveness, and So smiles grimly: “If it is treason, you will have to pay with your life.” Wow, how is it that I feel sorry for Wook again?
Queen Sinjeong rushes to Yeonhwa with the news of Wook’s predicament, but Yeonhwa couldn’t be more cavalier about the whole matter. She refuses to heed her mother’s request that she save her brother, claiming that she can’t cover up her brother’s crimes for him.
Reminding her mother that she’s queen now, she tells her to let her go as her daughter. She has bigger things to worry about, which leaves her mother trembling with rage.
Wook doesn’t move from the spot where he prostrated himself, despite the throne room being empty now. Su begs So for Wook’s life, claiming he was framed, and even drops to her knees to do so.
That gets So’s attention, since he knows she has bad knees. He kneels to help her up, but she reminds him of his promise not to hurt his brothers. Then, she adds that she knows it was he who killed the hawk and put Wook’s life in danger.
He pulls away from her slightly, asking if there’s a reason he shouldn’t have done so, considering that Wook killed King Hyejong and Eun, chased Baek-ah off, tried to kill him, and tried to separate the two of them. “That’s the kind of person he is,” So argues.
But Su says that whatever goes around comes around, and that if So continues to be too harsh in meting out punishment, everyone will soon turn against him. She doesn’t want him to go down in history as a tyrant, to which So finally relents that he’ll let Wook live. But he’ll be forever confined to his home, and won’t be allowed to take one step out of it.
“He will suffocate in that house,” So all but growls. And now that he thinks of it, he likes this punishment much more than killing him outright. His laugh unsettles Su as she looks up at him in bewilderment, but there’s nothing she can do.
For now, Wook is confined to his library, with soldiers standing watch outside. At the same time, Yeonhwa finds Su near the baths, and strangely admits to pushing Wook too hard. However, she places the blame regarding the change in Wook on Su, since Su was the one who warned him about So. Because of that warning, Wook believed that So would become king.
“He had feelings for you. He hated more than anything that you were acknowledging another man as king. I may have been the one who pressured Wook, but it was you who hammered in the nail,” Yeonhwa grits out.
Su thinks back to King Jeongjong blaming her for everything too, because she helped So to cover his scar. She remembers telling Wook to stay away from So lest he die, and also remembers her prophetic visions about So. “It was all my fault,” Su realizes in the present.
Yeonhwa goes on to say that if Su hadn’t have gotten involved, then Wook wouldn’t have changed the way he did. “You ruined everything. And yet, shamelessly, you still live.” Oh, okay. Right. You’re completely blameless, Yeonhwa. It’s not like Wook had to kill someone and put himself at your mercy because of something you did, right?
Of course Su believes every word Yeonhwa says, and has more heart troubles because of it later. In the meantime, So has his portrait painted because he has a special someone he wants to give it to.
The portrait session is interrupted by Jung, who’s managed to enter the palace despite his exile. He’s brought a decree from the late King Jeongjong, in which he declared his approval of a marriage between Jung and Su.
Flash back to when Jung had been given one wish due to his bravery on the battlefield by King Jeongjong. We never heard what it was he asked for then, but now we know he asked for Su’s hand in marriage. In the present, So throws the decree to the ground, claiming it to be fake.
Jung challenges him to compare the handwriting, but So says that even if it’s a match, he’ll refuse to allow it. So tries to use the “Everyone knows she’s with me” line, but Jung just as easily throws back that she’s not a wife or a concubine—thus, there’s no reason why she can’t be free to marry him.
He throws down the gauntlet by adding that he’s already informed the ministers of the decree, and that they know he’s waiting for the king’s consent. It’s only when Jung says that this is what Su wants that So stops with his threats to punish him.
So goes straight to Su, asking her if she already knew about the decree of consent. So says that Jung claimed she wanted to marry him, but since he knows she doesn’t, he’ll—… “I want to,” Su interrupts.
She mentions how it would only be harmful for So to go against the late king’s decree, and brings up how he’d talked about their longing for each other when they were apart. She admits this was so, but says that now, she sees him daily and sometimes even despises him.
This comes as a shock to So, but Su continues that if they were to keep going as they are, only hatred would remain. Her reasoning is that if she leaves now, she can prevent that from happening, or something. “I will never allow that to happen,” So answers in a low voice.
Yeonhwa tears into So for ignoring the late king’s decree, since he’s not helping his case. She can’t understand why he can’t just let Su go, but warns that she won’t just stand by and let him throw the throne away.
While confined to his library, Wook flashes back to when he was still prostrated in front of the throne. Su had gone to him to say that the king had agreed to let him live, though Wook had worried that people might begin to suspect her.
Su had answered that she would have done this for anyone, and had kneeled before him to tell him to give up his aspirations for the throne. “No one can escape this misery if you do not leave this place. You must give up first,” she said, leaving Wook with much to consider.
In the present, he returns to the letter he’d been writing, only to get an unexpected visit from a disguised(?) Yeonhwa, asking for his help. Well, well.
Cut to: Wook greeting the king in the throne room, which he was only able to do because Yeonhwa made it so. Yeonhwa is sent from the room as Wook confesses to the one thing So has stubbornly not known until now: that he and Su had once promised to marry each other.
He explains that their relationship took place before Su became So’s woman, adding that back then, Su was his. We cut to So confronting an oblivious Su over this newfound bit of information, explaining that he knows all about the bracelet and her secret meetings with Wook.
“Is it all true?” he asks, clearly wanting it not to be. But she affirms it asthmatically, leaving So to put all the pieces together that he hadn’t before. So would rather her lie to him and tell him it was all a misunderstanding, desperate for things to go back to the way they were.
“We said we would not lie to one another,” Su reminds him. “How could you do this?” So asks desperately. “How could you hurt me like this? Why is it Wook, of all people?” He steps back when Su approaches him, a tear running down his cheek. “Wook was the only one in your heart,” he adds, believing it to be true.
Su looks tearful herself, and reaches out to take his hand. So pulls it away with a warning: “After today, I will never see you again.” Su collapses in his wake, crying. I’m so confused. Isn’t this what she wanted anyway?
Su takes her leave of the palace as Astronomer Choi warns So that if he throws Su away like this, he’ll lose a part of himself as well. But then So says the truest statement ever told: “I did not throw her away. Su threw me away.”
Baek-ah and Su share a parting drink, taking a moment to discuss the marriage Su didn’t know about. And while she claims not to love the idea, she’s ready to go through with it just to get out of the palace, explaining that she fell out with So because “there’s just too much blood in our relationship.” (That’s literally what she says, but I have absolutely no idea what she means.)
Regardless, Baek-ah says he’s grateful for their relationship, and ends his farewell there. He tries to chase Wook off when he comes to say his farewell, but at a nod from Su, Baek-ah relents and takes his leave.
Su thanks Wook for what he did, though he clarifies that his intentions were far from righteous. She believes that statement to be false, knowing that he would never have said those things if he thought she didn’t want to leave.
“Jung will be good to you,” Wook manages to say, along with a well-meaning wish for her to forget the past and think only of the future. He looks like he’s just barely holding it together as he takes a long pause, and then sighs.
“Su-ya,” he says, returning to the endearing way he used to say her name. “I think you understand me,” he adds, reaching an uncertain hand out to gently grasp her shoulder. Pulling her in closer, he tells her that this life is now over.
He smiles when he pulls away, and Su watches him go for a very long time. After a brief cut to So looking to the wedding hanbok Su only ever got to try on, we return to her as an inner monologue begins:
“If I had not met him, I would not yearn for him. If I did not know him, I would not think of him so much. If we had not been together, I would not have to disappear. If I did not treasure him so much, I would not have so many memories. If I did not love him, we would not need to throw each other away. If we had not crossed paths, we would never have been together. Perhaps, if I had not met you at all…”
And then, we find So holding the wedding hanbok in shaking hands as he cries.
COMMENTS
In the vein of Su’s inner monologue, we could say that if we had never watched this show, we would never have had to try to understand an indecipherable heroine. If we didn’t love seeing Lee Jun-ki on screen, we wouldn’t have gotten this far. If things made sense, we wouldn’t have to yearn for explanations. If we knew what Su was saying, we would have something to go on.
But alas, there’s been this permeating sense of malaise ever since So took the throne, because things only started to go downhill from there. What’s strange is that I thought that the throne would be the grand goal we needed to reach, but it was treated with such little fanfare that it felt like just another day in the life. Which meant that the only story left to tell was Su and So’s, and we can all see how well thought-out that part of the story is going.
I’m honestly confused by Su’s motives and her ever-shifting loyalties, since it didn’t take much for her to go from “I’ll help you” to “Never mind, I’m leaving you.” Even if we tried to see things from her perspective, i.e. that So is a ruthless murderer and killed her friend for no reason, he actually tried to talk things out with her, which should really count for something. For her apparently thinking him an unreasonable monster, he was the only one speaking sense, and it was Su who willfully decided to believe only what she wanted to be true. Instead of taking all the evidence So presented to her and thinking back to the times Chae-ryung has been shifty, she thought only of the time Chae-ryung held her hand and staunchly refused to believe that she could ever have been insincere or false.
So instead, she’d have to believe that So was the one lying to her, and it was beyond aggravating to see her just shut down. At that point, I threw my hands up, because her misery seemed self-inflicted, and her path to ignoble idiocy firmly secured. Granted, So isn’t exactly an angel to be with, but after an entire series about them finding each other and discovering their love, was this where it was all going? I feel cheated.
I suppose all isn’t lost since there’s still one episode left, and I don’t want to think that we’ve been hoping in vain. I’m not even sure where I’d want things to end in an ideal world, since everyone’s paths have gotten so twisted and crossed. As of right now, I don’t think a marriage between Jung and Su would be the worst thing that ever happened, if only because he deserves props for being true to his word. After this episode, I’m kind of sad that they didn’t develop their loveline to its fullest potential however one-sided it is, because out of everyone, Jung has been selfless in loving her and has never asked for anything in return. Marriage was just the only way he knew how to honor her request, and he planned ahead enough to make it so that even So couldn’t argue the point.
If things had been left there, they would have been moderately better, but then it felt like the show was throwing everything and the kitchen sink in as reasons to drive Su and So apart. At least Wook’s confession had an ulterior motive that wasn’t awful, so I appreciated that they gave that couple a bittersweet sendoff, which worked in its own way to ever-so-slightly redeem Wook. (Does he not know that his sister betrayed him, though? Or does he not care?)
But then we come to all the nonsense Yeonhwa spouted, and the fact that the show could’ve actually gone somewhere in having Su believing herself to be responsible for the way historical events turned out. It’s only that we were given that scene with Su believing everything to be her fault, and then… nothing. They went nowhere with it. It didn’t influence Su’s decision to leave, nor did it seem to weigh on her conscience for very long. Somehow, it seems worse that the show dropped in actual, real reasons for Su to be conflicted, but it chose to go with her just being over it all instead. C’mon, Moon Lovers. You’ve got one last chance to be the show we all wanted you to be—don’t waste it.
RELATED POSTS
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 18
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- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 15
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 14
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Tags: featured, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
Interview with Kim Yoo-jung
Hello Dramabeans series
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51 alasecond
October 31, 2016 at 9:03 PM
My problem with HS is two fold:
1. How she easily judges others but when it comes to herself then zilch!
- Eun's death, WS made her realize what her fault was.. and then maybe a tear or two.. and then BLANK.. nothing..
However, had she been convinced that WS killed Eun.. she would have broken up, thrown all tantrums, tortured that poor guy and what not
- YH made her realize what role she played in the whole thing.. again ZILCH
- WW asked her a simple question regarding her hypocrisy.. and her answer is vainful "He was true to me" ..hello!.. Didn't WW told you number of times that if they run away problems will keep coming specially given his world renowned fearsom cousin is lusting after you???
2. VANITY thy name!
- I think killing monks is ok because you did it for survival ~HS
- I think you wanting throne over me is not ok.. because *god knows what reason*
- anyone fighting for throne is automatically doing it for vested interests... *Hello!!... for some nation and society welfare can actually be a goal!!!**
*************
With all of this .. she cares for all and loves them...i am confused.. because her 'judgements' seem to change at the whim of her day in the month it seems..
***************
But then, lastly i think.. maybe there is no logic because someone else is pulling the strings..
FATE/NATURE .. time travel doesn't happen but it happened, she could have gone back to Lincoln or hitler or maybe just a few years back when she could marry lee jun ki :P .. BUT NO.. she got sent to Goryeo.. and people behave abruptly..
It is Meant to be... you can't run away from it..
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Ira
October 31, 2016 at 9:27 PM
HaeSoo as a character is a major fail for me. Although I blame the writer mostly for the botched characterization, the acting, unfortunately, made it worse. I have liked IU enough in the past, but this drama has shown her limitation as an actress too much. she should steer away from sageuk for quite sometime because sageuk needs some kind of gravitas that she doesnt currently posses. I have never felt this frustrated with a female character this much, and I have watched a lot of bad dramas. Sigh...
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Evelyn
November 1, 2016 at 12:03 AM
Agree. The writing for haesoo is really really bad. But i feel that alot of why I cannot connect with the character is because of the acting as well. I too don't think IU has the gravitas to play this role. It has been particularly obvious to me in the second half of the story where she seems kinda lifeless to me and suddenly has very little emotional range. i mean, it is possible to look serious and stoic and still convey whatever the character is feeling - but i dont really get that for her. i actually find it difficult to read what she's feeling/thinking most of the time.
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TJ
November 1, 2016 at 3:41 AM
I suggest you attempt to wade through the original if you want to see a frustrating character. The Korean version of Su is much easier to watch, the whole drama really. If you can get past the terrible dubbing then you see what a passive frustrating person our little time traveler really is. The Korean version while sticking as close as possible to the original is still much more watchable.
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Kendi
November 1, 2016 at 5:07 AM
Hmm, I beg to differ. Although the pattern is similar, the execution isn't.
The buildup of RX leaving 4th is much more than the death of fake ass bestfriend. Heck they even still have sweet moment after YT/CR being tortured to death, in K version, HS just still being bitter with CR death, even go as far as justifying it as an act out of love.
C>K almost in all aspect especially the writing.
The disjointed story was the result of one dimensional villains characters forced into the original plotline. Add lazy writing as a the cherry on top, we got SHMLR.
Bwear
November 1, 2016 at 6:20 AM
I feel like someone is venturing his/her anger towards the original because the majority of audience acknowledge the original version as more fleshed-out and overall better written than the adaption..
Del
November 1, 2016 at 12:47 AM
IU's interpretation of sadness, fatigue, despair, love vs morality, forgiveness and redemption are all taken at face value.
There is no trajectory of the extend and depth of the character's despair and idealism in order for us to understand and be sold over her course of action. It's like she read the script, understood that Haesoo is sad with So's transformation and all she could interpret is to "walk weakly and painfully lift her eyelids that probably a ton heavier..." There was no build-up along the way.
Sigh, all I can say she needs to understand character's building. So safe to say, she should probably settle with less complex role like Cindy in Producers or the one in Dream High.
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Evelyn
November 1, 2016 at 12:11 AM
@EZ: i too, find Soo to be extremely judgmental. And the person that bears the brunt of it is So. The way she goes about it, you'd think she is literally waiting for him to do "something" wrong as an excuse to cast him aside.
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KK
November 1, 2016 at 12:46 AM
I understand Su wanting to leave him, but it does feel like she holds So to a different standard because of those visions she had . She doesnt place that same judgement on others (CR and Wook), so while So IS turning into the man she had hoped to change, it just makes her character feel wildly inconsistent.
I get her leaving and am glad she did but it's hard to defend her because of this. Her being capable of understanding others but not the man she loves is so ????
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 6:41 AM
I agree, she's holding So to a different standard long before he did anything to deserve her judgment, and it's maddening to watch because she literally never does the same to people who've done far worse to her.
Her defence of Chae-ryung is what makes it absolutely impossible for me to stomach this entire episode - of all the lousy blind spots to have, THAT was it?
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52 darkheart
October 31, 2016 at 9:03 PM
And since HS had introduced BB cream to Goryeo, why couldn't she have taught them the basics of IVF??
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Jamie Opso
October 31, 2016 at 9:22 PM
Lol, turkey baster?
Now I'm seeing that bedroom scene with So and Yeon Hwa a little differently: they strike their deal, and So whips out a turkey baster...
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53 Inggg
October 31, 2016 at 9:05 PM
"If we didn’t love seeing Lee Jun-ki on screen, we wouldn’t have gotten this far. If things made sense, we wouldn’t have to yearn for explanations. If we knew what Su was saying, we would have something to go on."
WORD!
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Ira
October 31, 2016 at 9:10 PM
The thing that we have to suffer through for LJK...*sadface*
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voice
October 31, 2016 at 11:05 PM
WHEN will LJK star in a good drama? Why is it so hard?
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Del
November 1, 2016 at 12:50 AM
I hate to say this but the K-drama industry seems to treat LJK like a turkey. There's always him to sacrifice for thanksgiving. When everything went wrong, at least thank goodness there's the turkey.
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54 Kdramafanatic
October 31, 2016 at 9:06 PM
This show leaves you with a "what the hell" just happened feeling, I've stopped trying to understand our characters decisions with logic and just going with it, because otherwise it makes no sense.
I'm still annoyed that we never got an answer as to why queen mom hated So.
Also, the Korean version is following the Chinese version almost to a T, which is unfortunate because they tried to shub all these major plot points into what feels like four episodes (when the Chinese version is like 50 episodes)....
I'm just hoping for a happy ending for our dear, mad king So (cause he is acting a little crazy lately).
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tj
November 1, 2016 at 3:46 AM
The Chinese version is 35 and I highly recommend it if you need a 45 minute nap everyday. This version is much more watchable and every bit as frustrating. Because the author wrote Hae Su this way, indecisive, fickle and passive. I couldn't understand why she began to like 4th prince in the original, at least with Lee Jun ki that much isn't so hard to understand.
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sancheezy
November 1, 2016 at 7:24 AM
are you implied that the 45 minutes run time for a chinese version is a nap time?
well that's better than 1 hour nap time or 1 hour of headache cause no one can be root,
okay the chinese version is not every body taste, I get it but to said to said that it's equal to nap is so stretching,
there's must be a reason for int-fans to endure the half bald man and the not so flowery looking actors to praise it, so I hope you put that on your mind,
imo : at least the chinese version doesn't need you to read comments to understand the story,
oh edited : a thousand comments
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TJ
November 1, 2016 at 7:42 AM
Chinese productions have lots of reasons why people like them other than the horrible dubbing and often wooden acting. Chinese tv and film productions are often gorgeous, the locations, sets and costuming is expensive and it shows. Unlike Korean productions which are often shot on much smaller budgets and it sometimes shows. The attention to detail in the original production was spot on from the interior sets to the tea sets. It wouldn't surprise me either since this is an adaptation from a book to find that the Chinese tv production may have had critics at the time who were loyal to the book. It happens, often nuance is lost bringing an epic story the screen and this is an EPIC story. The Chinese version at least does that better, it shows you exactly how long Hae Su or Ruoxi was living in this world of betrayal, sudden death and political intrigue. It was decades really. She spent 8 years just serving the old king tea. I personally don't like Chinese dramas and can't get into them very often. I haven't completely finished watching Scarlet Heart, I have about 5 episodes to go but since the pacing is so much slower I gave up. I know why the Chinese like K drama so often it is different than Chinese drama.
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55 Lynn
October 31, 2016 at 9:07 PM
I gotta say, LJK influence over me is indeed powerful... I would have dropped this eons ago if not for him. Is unbelievable how much I've come to despise Hae Soo; as a character she's a failure, I don't know, her behaviour doesn't make any sense, nor her decision making or her motivations, much less her thought process! It doesn't help at all that the actress playing her ever since Lady Oh's death scene hasn't been able to transmit any emotion (at least I can't feel her at all, or is just that I can't believe anything she tries to convey). Sigh... I know this drama has been filled with flaws since the beginning, but I just can't take it anymore TT. Poor LJK.
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56 Nekothecat
October 31, 2016 at 9:07 PM
also just wanted to say LJK is wonderful to watch. hope to see more of him in future dramas, such a charismatic actor. I'd root for him whether he was playing a bad guy or a hero..he's a wonderful actor :) The Wook actor was very likeable too and Baekah and Jung are just total sweeties. Thanks for the recaps
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57 Soso
October 31, 2016 at 9:08 PM
Will Su ever return to present time?
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Inggg
October 31, 2016 at 9:34 PM
In the original drama, she will after
•MAJOR SPOILER•
She died.
Met the 4th at the museum and he walks away ??
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Endo
October 31, 2016 at 10:33 PM
So she have to die to come back? I thought she either died or was brought back to present.
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Napkiin
October 31, 2016 at 10:53 PM
That's only in the cdrama, not the novel. In the novel she dies the end. MLSHR bought rights to the book only not cdrama, but we'll see what happens in the end... lol
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I'm lost
November 1, 2016 at 5:56 AM
I know I'll choose the novel version. I can't even imagine her going back to the modern era and meet So. And I know I 'll go insane if they fall in love again. Just, please!!!! Please prevent So from meeting this ignorantly naive girl. He deserves someone way better than her (if I may suggest writer nim, let's have YH reincarnated and let her meet So at the museum and let them walk together happily and discuss lots of things while passing Su who is just randomly being there watching them with painstakingly bland face. How does it sound? Oh, and can we borrow the "The End" word from W! I need to make sure that there won't be any continuation from the past So-Suu couple!
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I'm lost
November 1, 2016 at 6:12 AM
Ps: since it is in the frame of reincarnation, we know for sure that there's no any half-blood relationship. So the future of my YH-Soo ship can sail to the sunset ? huzzzzzzzaaaaaah!!!!!!
58 Lily
October 31, 2016 at 9:08 PM
Somehow, Kang Ha Neul makes it impossible for me to hate Wook, no matter how coward, calculating, greedy, heartless and despicable he has become. That parting scene was everything I need for this episode (it was actually the only one I dared to watch =))))) ). The moment he paused and sighed, I wanted to cry for him so badly. After all, Soo was, and I believe she has always been, his dream. A dream he had and lost. A dream he will never be able to get back. At that very last moment, Wook took a step back and could say a thing I don't know if So could ever realize: he and So, they both failed to keep their promises to Soo, failed to give her the happiness she needs, but now Jung, the one who may never has her heart, may be able to do that in their place. Gosh, dear Kang Ha Neul, I wanted to hate Wook, okay? Why do you keep doing this to me?????
And So, even if you are the gorgeous Lee Jun Ki, I have to give up on you. Actually I already gave up on you since the last episode. I've never had such an extreme love-hate feeling with a male lead like this before. I shouldn't have expected too much from the beginning.
Soo's inner monologue is supposed to be a poem written in the original novel, but the English version sounds a bit different to me, it doesn't really make sense like the original one. Or maybe it is a problem of translating between different languages? Because the original one is in Chinese, and the one I read is in Vietnamese, in this drama it is rewritten in Korean and then translated into English?
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Kz
October 31, 2016 at 9:18 PM
YES! It's so hard to hating Wook...it's because of Kang Ha Neul. Really. The way his face and emotions change in an instant, he's so good! His chemistry with IU is amazing, btw. I've said it before in previous posts. He and IU have something more special on screen, which is kind of like the dagger that killed the So-Soo love line.
A lot of people seem to believe the love story of Wook and Soo more than So and Soo, so that's sad.
That farewell scene was just beautiful and sad.
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Lily
October 31, 2016 at 9:32 PM
I am actually always on team So (except when I watched some Wook-Soo scenes =)))) ), but I agree with you, I always find IU's chemistry with KHN much better than with LJK. She acts better and more naturally opposite KHN. Maybe because they are closer in age and personality?
I am kinda obsessed with missed opportunities, love stories that could have had a happy ending, but then turned out all wrong for one mistaken step. And the look in Wook's eyes, it's ALL there. Despite all the flaws of this drama, moments like this will make me remember it for a long time.
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KZ
October 31, 2016 at 9:55 PM
True.
There was talk before the show even came out that LJK and IU might be a mismatch. It didn't help that the love story between her and Wook developed in a really "I-wish-they-were-the-OTP" kind of way. Which was why even their break up after ep 11 was so heart-wrenching.
POINT? Their love story was believable.
Soo and So's feels contrived. It is there, and it's nice to see them with their cute scenes and all. But it isn't as great as it is supposed to be.
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Lily
October 31, 2016 at 11:34 PM
I think we may have a bit different views here. At first I find Wook -Soo's relationship a bit messed up, maybe because the presence of Lady Hae. Then things slowly got on track. Maybe because their story is shorter, it was done more nicely and carefully. Soo-So's loveline has countless moments to remember, but it is sometimes chaos and hard to follow. I blame it on the editing.
I trusted in Soo-So's love. I trusted that Wook is the beautiful romantic first love you may regret losing it, but So is the great love of your life, the one which may hurt you badly but you will hold dearly in you heart forever, the one that you will never be able to leave once you enter. Partly because of all the things So has said and done for Soo, partly because of LJK's acting, I trusted So with all the hope I had for this drama. I did not hate Wook when he turned his back on Soo, but I hate So so badly when he made the deal with Yeon Hwa, so I guess I am really into their relationship.
And as you mentioned mismatch, I don't think I have seen any actress as a good match to LJK in his recent dramas. Shin Min Ah was the best one, but they do not look compatible. Nam Sang Mi was ok, but she lacks the shine. And can I just skip Lee Yoo Bi? I read an article which analysed that one of the reasons his dramas keep turning out bad is because none of his co-stars suits him. I also find it difficult to find an actress who can create a phenomenon couple with him, not only in term of acting, but also the look.
pogo
October 31, 2016 at 11:54 PM
Honestly, IU and KHN's chemistry was only apparent in the early episodes, when it was made very clear Su and Wook had a powerful physical attraction to each other. The minute Lady Hae died and the relationship took a chaster turn (those Damiwon cave dates, him promising to marry her), they got boring - I was surprised when I found myself not wanting to watch them together anymore.
And while IU/LJK were written in a chaster way (which is regrettable but was probably so as not to rock any boats about what an OTP relationship should be like), I found them far from contrived - they had an ease in their chemistry that made even scenes of them just talking, well worth watching. That carried over to when they became a couple. And if they really didn't have any chemistry, I doubt we'd be seeing people so actively frustrated at the end of So and Su, and how it's come about.
And let's not forget that writing plays a role in chemistry too (hence IU burning to high blazes with KHN while they had the forbidden love angle going on, but dying down completely once Su was in the Damiwon and they were all cutesy/chaste). I think it's deeply unfair that Lee Yoo-bi gets blamed for SWWTN, given that her character is more frustrating than even Su here, and I doubt any actress alive could have made a birdbrained character like that appealing opposite Jun-ki.
Evelyn
November 1, 2016 at 12:07 AM
@KZ: agreed wrt So-Soo's relshp. I think the blame lies with the writing. I kept waiting for this amazing friendship to blossom into an amazing relationship and we got like this half-hearted attempt where Soo she can't seem to fully commit to him and trust him.
@pogo: ugh i was so annoyed with Soo-wook post lady-hae that i forwarded all of their scenes lol. it was getting so cheesy and part me of me was getting so annoyed seeing them tog all the time
pogo
November 1, 2016 at 12:22 AM
@Evelyn - exactly, So and Su were amazing together as friends with the promise of more.
Then came the visions, which understandably freaked her out but then SHE DECIDED TO NOT BASE HER ACTIONS ON THEM and continued interacting with So like she had before. And then along comes Eun's hiding to undermine that, despite which she pursues So anyway to revive their connection, and then STILL continues to place her trust in anyone but him at crucial moments. I'd have understood if the vision thing was presented as an obstacle to their relationship that Su had to work to get over, but it's not easy to root for them when it's become a constant sticking point.
And yeah, my annoyance at Su/Wook set in pretty early on lol. I think the fact that I found their later scenes (post-forced marriage but pre-breakup) so annoying while I liked So/Su's and was wishing they could just step it up a tad on the attraction front, was quite telling - it's not that one couple has better or worse chemistry than another, it's just that they play out in different ways.
TJ
November 1, 2016 at 3:51 AM
If you watch the original chinese version it feels the same way. It's a big old side eye why she'd ever trade affection for 8th to 4th. The 4th prince in the Chinese version is not nearly as charismatic as in the Korean, he's a freaking farmer nothing like Wang So. So enjoy because the female character in the original version is even more passive and hard to fathom.
Del
November 1, 2016 at 1:59 AM
Starting from episode 12, I always wanted some kind of punishments to fall on Wook but Kang Ha Neul is so good, just one shift of emotion, all those hatred just dissipated away and all I have left is PITY for his Wook.
KHN should become a leading man in his next project. He is far better than some of the current IT boys.
And before I forgot to mention, that one on one, face to face expression battle between him and LJK was great.
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Lily
November 1, 2016 at 8:53 AM
I have been praying for KHN to get a leading role in a drama for ages. That guy deserves better, he has tried many different characters and nailed them all. My favourite are his roles in Angel's Eyes and Missing Noir M.
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59 Lucia
October 31, 2016 at 9:08 PM
Can anyone explain why Woohee had to commit suicide/decide to commit suicide, and what kind of "deal" she made with Gwangjong, so that Baek-ah would not have to go to battle?
Thanks!
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60 juliesean
October 31, 2016 at 9:11 PM
This version is following the trajectory of the chinese version but somehow the execution is really bad. Perhaps it’s the shorter episodes and bad editing, or IU’s acting. In the original version, we were hooked onto their epic love story, not so much the political fights among the princes. What drew the audience was that their love was believable, we were able to see their progress and the reason for the downfall. If the end is exactly the same as the original, it means Soo loves So too but unfortunately, we just don’t feel it.
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kimchikay
October 31, 2016 at 9:35 PM
I blame the lack of episodes - amongst other things like direction and editing. I feel like this story needs more than 20 episodes….something like 40-50 would be better to flesh out ALL the characters, all the side stories as well as develop two whole love line arcs for our female lead. We don't feel like love between Soo/Su because so much time was spent creating Wook/Su.
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voice
October 31, 2016 at 11:07 PM
Honestly it's not even the lack of episodes but rather the wastage of time on unnecessary scenes in the former half of the drama. That saying and also the horrible transitions of time.
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TJ
November 1, 2016 at 3:55 AM
I disagree. I think this version is way better. The characters in this drama are all larger than life and much more charismatic. It's true though, the heroine if frustrating in both dramas and it doesn't end well for any of them really.
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61 EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 9:11 PM
@Seltzerwater
@ Pogo
@ Barbrey
You are the only ones that can safe me from this madness. AM I the only one angry at people getting angry? haha Catch22!
I get WangSo, I can feel his pain, and confusion, I get that he suffered but for years exactly 5 YEARS, he has been receiving unconditional love from HaeSoo. But for people! she changed her mind in one day. WTH people are just delusional. If not, people help me then because I must be delusional.
1. HaeSoo is no choosing Charyung over WS, like are you seriously? She is choosing herself, she is choosing her well being. She clearly says, THE PERSON I LOVE KILLED MY LITTLE SISTER. Mmm I guess who did something like that... aahhh maybe HER BOYFRIEND! She, as he said "technically" killed his little brother and then he broke her heart, lied to hear, and left for 2 years! She is not saying that she doesn't trust him. DID WS had a tantrum or WAS bad directing? because after they had a fight about HS letting Jung go inside the palace after the Queen mother died, he says its all Wook's fault, then he kills Charyung. Like why now! Why not when she decided to stay!?
2. She obviously still loves him, and is gentle with him, but when he says lets not be like this for something trivial. TRIVIAL!! Really WangSo?? He knows she is her little sister, she KNOWS she is a traitor, she knows that, but something trivial! thats when she let go his hands. Really people, WangSo had 10% the relationship and affection for Eun compare to HS to Charyung.
3. She doesn't love Wook anymore! Like really? how can people even ask! It's been 7 years after they broke up. You need to move on! HaeSoo did many years ago! Well OMG the hug is so intense but I guess sleeping with YW and telling her I will make you my only Queen is not that bad??
Im just too emotional. ML is not 50 SHADES OF GRAY! If you want a stupid female character that will stay no matter what then go watch Itazura na kiss! I am seriously concern about people getting mad at HS, clear sign of negation of abusive relationship. Like WTH! She is loving herself!
4. She is not saying that she hates him! She said sometimes she hates him. AH even I sometimes hate my husband! doenst mean that I dont love him anymore! so mature what she said! SO 21ST CENTURY "I just dont want to keep going and end up hating you" She LOVES HIM, she doenst want to ruined that love! She is not doing any good for him at the palace!
5. HS is a freaking SAINT! I would have smack my husband if he would dare tell me "YOU CANNOT LEAVE" "DO YOU THINK I WOULD LET YOU GO" What happened to "marry me and you can divorce after if you are not happy"!
I can understand WS to have the emotional stability of a cactus! but what about WS fans! have you not seen the entire freaking drama!? If you suffered what he suffered then I apologize and wish you the best psychological therapy. But if not! what the heck! why would you want to stay in a cage! What are you doing...
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sancheezy
October 31, 2016 at 9:28 PM
tbh people can see how hae soo wants to leave, it just the way to that conclusion is stupid
it's like asking the kid if he knew 2+2=?
and he answers 4 because he is the 4th kid as his mom said, not because he knew 1+1=2 or 2+2=4,
So stay true to his mind and his action, Soo just want o be convenient without realized what she had done in the past or listen to So/baek-ah or fact,
then, a stupid stubborn heroine is not my taste, don't know about you,
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EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 9:49 PM
@savl
I get your point, is reasonable.
But I have to disagree with "stay tru to his mind and his action"?
- I want to become king to end this fight
then lets execute Jung, lets framed Wook and execute him! m
- You are my only Queen to HS
then to Yeonhwa if you throw away your family I will make you my only Queen? Did you decide... ok, girlfriend is in another room but who cares I want to frame and killed by brother so lets sleep with Yeonhwa
- I just want you to be ok, you can marry me then divorce me if that is what you want
then You cannot leave. Do you think I would ever let you leave?
A stupid stubborn but true, honest, painfully loyal is my taste, I do not about yours.
- stubbornness can be perseverance
- stupidity can be logical
I guess you are saying I should prefer to say 2 + 2 = 6 and I would love Gwangjong no matter what? no matter who kills, who threatens, who declares his love to and then sleeps around with?
Ill say again, I am seriously concern for the relationship status of people defending such and abusive behavior. This is not 50 shades of Grey!
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sancheezy
October 31, 2016 at 10:12 PM
wang so has explanation and hae soo stupidity makes the moves on him, she changes the variable of the promise,
he wants to end the fight, he ends it,
ending a fight doesn't mean he can forget all the things happen, it means no one comes after him and he didn't killed them,
an antihero is antihero protagonist, not that I admire him, look at my comment below before you replied that I think they both unlikable,
" A stupid stubborn but true, honest, painfully loyal is my taste "
oh painfully loyal that never learn and never do what she promised, she is the only one who didn't see So as monster at the 1st but always said he is a monster after he comes to liked her,
painfully loyal is the 13th prince in the chinese version (as I read what happen to hi)
being confused and took every turn into her selfish desire to be called loyal is probably some viewer chooses what to see cause omg I need to love my heroine and defend her since everybody is on "oppa" side,
nah, people wants to know how the decision is made, even by the antagonist to believe their word+action, not to defend what people seems to against
hae soo is unlikeable character with not moving execution/acting, how do you expect the majority to believe her?
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EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 10:43 PM
@savi
I personally didn't interpret HaeSoo stupidity to "...makes the moves on him, she changes the variable of the promise..."
But If that would be the case, OMG I would flip out! There is nothing more stupid that explaining that your actions are due to someone else stupidity. Oh well if thats the case, they are perfect for each other.
You are initially right, he ends the fight, but well then he framed Wook and was gonna execute him, please don't tell me is because HaeSoo stupidity moved him, oh well if thats the case if was also HS that prevented that death. Then he is gonna execute Jung, are you really gonna tell me that's because HS stupidity again, ok, lets give you the benefit of the doubt and yes, it was because she asked him. But then she stayed true to what she decided and only because she said that she wanted it WS didn't killed Jung. If this is really the case WS would be the most stupid male lead or antihero, or hero, but because I do not agree I do not think that.
You are right, compare to 13th prince in c-version HS is not at that level of painfully loyal. I agreed 100% on this. But comparing anyone from ML not c-version she is indeed extremely painfully loyal.
I must be blind, so please tell me what are this ALWAYS moments that she calls him a monster.
Selfish desire to be loyal is a contradiction. But if that means to be selfish, then for my well being and happiness and from everyone including the man I love to be safe I would be selfish too.
Haha I think I am too old for the whole "oppa" "unni" even donsaeng haha. I am no team HaeSoo, I am not team IU, I am not team oppa or Lee Jun Gi. Yes I loved IU and I am a fan but NOT a fanatic. I just analyze the character and it concerns me some people interpretations. They have their right of interpretation, I have my right to be concern for defending till the end an abusive behavior and condemning the first decision HS has done for herself.
I don't expect anyone to believe in her, I just don't understand the hate on her. If you don't believe in somebody ahh well then move on, but to actively hate her is what it concerns me. Not saying that about you've never expressed hate for her.
If she is unlikeable for you thats ok, if she is very likable for me thats ok. I like very much your antihero analysis. You are right I guess for me HaeSoo is that type of heroine. A passive heroine is a passive heroine protagonist not that I would do the same I would actively yelled at Wook, at So and even to myself if I would be HaeSoo but she is not like that. I like her and respect her, maybe because she is everything I am not. I wouldn't wait, I wouldn't be patient, I wouldn't put everyones' well being before mine but she does and she is still the heroine like that.
Mara
October 31, 2016 at 9:33 PM
Haha, I think people are being so sympathetic towards him - to the point of downplaying his cruelty- because he's being played by the deliciously talented LJK. But in real life, a guy like this would most likely be in the dog house real fast!
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EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 9:41 PM
@Mara
This must be the most perfect-simple-brillant explanation. LJK just did a freaking amazing job making eveyone fall in love with WangSo and LJK BTS that they like you said downplaying anythings. Is like the first phase of passional love, is blind and the persons is perfect without any flaws! (bringing my psychology minor in here haha) but yeah you are right! In real life Gwangjong is a freaking abuser!
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sancheezy
October 31, 2016 at 9:48 PM
imho, it because wang so gets explanation, I find LJK overreacted a lot in this drama but his dialogue follow antihero path and understandable,
the otp of this story is both unlikable
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Ira
October 31, 2016 at 9:58 PM
I have to partly disagree with this. Yes, part of why people symphatized more with So is because LJK pulling off an amazing performance. But I think a bigger part of it is because we saw his character trajectory, thus although we hate his cruelty, we can see where he's coming from. But Soo has been written very badly that it's hard to connect with her character. I can see what the writer is trying to convey through her actions and decision, but the drama too frequently failed to build it up properly. This drove so many of us crazy because the logic of her decision mostly failed. When you cannot understand the motivation of a character, it's hard to symphatize with it.
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EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 10:13 PM
@Ira
I get where you are coming from. But I would have agree if this would have been a 1 year drama. Let me explained.
I would have agree with everything you said because yes, WS had so much pain, and cruelty towards him that it's completely understandable. He deserves to be happy to be loved. But that's the part were everything changes for me. He has been loved, by HaeSoo for years, for exactly 5 years. She met her 8 years ago. That trajectory that you are taking about has been with HaeSoo by his side all along. His smiles, his acts of love, sincerity, his fight to be loved has been since the moment she said "you are injured" "tell me why you killed them"
She's been there for him for so long. She had her moment yes, when she was clinically diagnosed with major depression. But after that she came around. They grew together, then he lied to her and left for 2 years, she still waited, and then she's been there for him 1 year before getting the throne, now with the throne, she was the first one to recognize him as king, to be there for him, to accept his marriage.
After 8 years Im sorry but I don't get the excuse he suffers so much that he deserves to be exonerated from everything he does. Not saying that your are saying that just is the same excuse that people defedning him after 8 years are still using. This type of behavior after all the love from HS for 5 freaking years makes me feel that maybe he would have been like that even if his mother wouldn't have thrown him away. I guess we will never know.
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Mara
October 31, 2016 at 10:19 PM
I'm really not sympathizing with Hae Su either, and I agree that her motivations are vague. If anyone had my sympathies, it was Wang So (at least for a while). But this episode made me remove the blinders and see him for who he is. His dark side is darker than dark - I'm talking grimy dark. He is uber possessive, jealous and controlling - and he has a penchant for killing animals just to make a point. This is the same guy who pushed a woman (HS) off his horse in an earlier episode. I looked past all that because of his issues with mommy dearest plus he seemed taken by HS, but now he's reverted to his old ways and he's just crazy now.
Killing CR was understandable - no arguments there. But it is NOT trivial. And before he did that he ordered a mass killing of everybody who submitted appeals against him. He is bloodthirsty. But he lost me totally when he went and promised Yeon Hwa to make her his only queen even before HS said she was leaving (just because HS told him how she felt about what he did to CR_. The conditions for making YH his only queen is for her to discard her family. So this means he is selfish. As long as you make him the center of your world and don't question his decisions, he will give you the world. But if you don't, you are branded a traitor. Such a person cannot be trusted.
Objectively, Su has done her fair share of wrongs, but I still find it interesting that even after this very revealing episode, she's being shouldered with most of the blame.
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Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 9:46 PM
@Ellirod we're all gonna get through this!
PD and writer did HS dirty by not giving her enough monologues and POV scenes where we could understand where she was coming from.
1. Absolute. This is what I've been relentlessly saying on Soompi for days. It is NOT wrong to leave a bad relationship. There's no reason to stay if you are being treated badly. Hae Su owes WS nothing.
2. That trivial line caught me too. I was like, 'nu-uh buddy' killing a person is not trivial, not to HS.
3. Wook and her are definitely over. That goodbye scene was really touching. I liked that he said his motives for telling WS about them wasn't pure. I'd like to know when the other shoe's gonna fall. Did we get a scene where Wook also tells WS about YH's scheme to poison Mu and get HS executed? Because if we can have a flashback of that scene, it would be tremendous sweet payback for YH.
4. Yeah, fandom is too literal sometimes.
5. All of this. I wrote this joke on Soompi that was just Hae Su telling WS off about all the shit she's suffered in the last year. She tells him she can't love him any more and she's dying. Mic drops. *Hae Su Out!* That's my tagline for the next episode: Hae Su out!
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EliRod
October 31, 2016 at 9:59 PM
@Seltzerwater
Thank you! Your response gives me peace and calms by exaggerated anger haha! Its 1am! EliRod get a life! We’re all gonna get through this! You are right!
Agreed, is just lack of monologues! I'm just glad that we are not the only ones that can get IU's acting. She has done an amazing job despite her character being with almost no lines at crucial moments!
haha great joke! I would love to see that IU would do that haha we wouldn't take !@$# from no one but HaeSoo, oh HaeSoo I love you but you are just painfully too good for this world. She will be loyal and loving to Wang So till the end. and I know it! Oh well I love her how she is! and I love WangSo! Im sorry but I despise Gwangjong and I want for him and Yeonhwa to have a crappy long life together! :) Off to bed!
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WishfulToki
November 1, 2016 at 4:13 PM
This show is a case where an Iljimae annoying narrator (or Hae Soo in monologue) could say a few lines at the beginning of each episode, kind of to help the audience.
I think Hae Soo is doing the right thing in leaving if she wants to survive, but she's not giving Wang So or us adequate explanation for her actions. If she just said 'I'm tired, Hae Su out' that would be something. This is partly bad writing, and partly IU's lack of experience. I think she's done a good job regardless.
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Lily
October 31, 2016 at 10:06 PM
Can I just shake your hand, please :))))?
I came to this drama for LJK (I guess, who doesn't?) but then somehow, I considered Soo's journey my own one, I fell in love with Wook and So, and felt betrayed by both of them. The problem is, at the first place, So shows himself to be totally different from Yinzhen (Chinese 4th Prince) and Wook, and even managed to say things like "I want to give you that freedom", "You can divorce me if you don't like me", "If I say I will marry her, I will"... We all blamed Wook for breaking every promise he ever said, but at the end, So is not much better. He disappointed me even more. (Yeah Wook is at least not married yet, even after breaking up with Soo for many years, and the fact that So promised to makes Yeon Hwa the only Queen and have children with her just to get her turn her back on Wook and get revenge to him sounds stupid to me)
The problem between So-Soo (and even Wook-Soo, if they remain together and Wook becomes king), is that they have different life values and limitations. In other words, because they are from different eras, it should be foreseen that they cannot end up together from the beginning. So was born in a royal family, where there is no real love and trust, brothers have to fight and turn against each other to survive. Everything he has done could be accepted and understood under the eyes of someone from that era. But Soo is a modern girl, how is she supposed to accept the fact that you cannot trust your family and can kill other people brutally because they did something to you or frame and sentence a person to death because he is a threat to your position? And So, eventhough he tried to stay faithful to Soo at first, but because there are still other women around, who are legally his women, he will end up finding a reason to justify their relationship anyway. For an ancient man, that would be normal and acceptable. For us, of course not.
If So had never become a king, things would have been fine between them. He would still be the guy who is crazily in love with Soo, always follows her around, adores her and cares for her feelings more than anything. But because he chose to sit on the throne, he is now on a position higher than everyone in this kingdom, their relationship loses the balance it is supposed to have. She now has to wait for him to look at her, he is now asking her to follow his will unconditionally. That kind of unequal relationship, even Court Lady refused to accept, why should Soo, of all people, accept?
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Manologirl84
October 31, 2016 at 11:50 PM
Wang So saying to Yeon Hwa that she will be his only queen if she betrays her family... after what he said to Hae Soo about his only queen... I can kinda of accept that that was his ploy to manipulate Yeon Hwa.
But he went to seal the deal with Yeon Hwa and that did it for me.... it ended my love affair with Wang So. That's a big betrayal in my books!!!! I love LJK's acting and portrayal of the character, but my heart became dead to Wang So the minute it happened. How could you break my heart ❤️ (and Hae Soo's)???
Yes yes I know it's just a drama .... but I could hear my heart breaking ?
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joongibae
October 31, 2016 at 10:33 PM
@EliRod I am one of Wang So's fans lol... though I am not really despising Hae Soo as the other party :p. I kinda get why most people are upset about Hae Soo... her actions seemed to be less convincing, I'll have to point my fingers at the writer. it's not that WS is perfectly written- he is in fact the very contrary of being a perfect being, i.e. pitiable in every way, kudos to the Writer for being able to write such a tragic character background story lol and esp to the god-of-sageuk LJK's convincing acting. All the 'flaws' in WS, esp his thirst for love & insecurity, those are the ones most - not all, though- people to some extent can relate to. The writer seems to care enough to get him to justify his every move so we all can just 'forget and forgive'. Our bad, yes. haha.
And for Hae Soo... up to this very last episode poor girl deserves better character development. This is what we have in Chinese BBJX that we don't really have here in the K-version. I kinda 'get' Ruo Xi and her decisions, mainly because of the 'voice over' and her better knowledge of the situation and history. but Hae Soo's lacking those aspects in this drama so most of us might have to guess her sanity, intelligence, reasons and ironically her supposed-to-be great love for WS. I for once really want to believe that she loves Wang So as much as he does- not less than that. I wish when we have the 'time leap' during Yo's reign where she was determined to wait for his return and even risked her life to seek for him & tend his wound, we would get a bit of clearer, stronger reason why she suddenly also fell deeper for WS after 'ignoring' his love pursuit for quite a while.
Anyway, I still am waiting for the finale. At least (y)our heroine gets her brief moments of freedom and happiness out there with Jung. Wang So, I'm afraid, will have to suffer the rest of his life. His middle name seems to be 'tragedy' in this writer's hands. Sigh.
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 12:00 AM
sorry @EliRod, I can't help you there.
THE PERSON I LOVE KILLED MY LITTLE SISTER.
Which I might believe in if that relationship ever seemed like anything other than friendly mistress/servant, but it never does. I'd have understood if So killed or hurt someone Su was actually close to and that we know very well is her friend - someone like Baek-ah, perhaps. But Chae-ryung?
I'd even have understood if she said she wanted to leave because of how he was changing/his cruelty, but no, it's Chae-ryung, Chae-ryung, Chae-ryung to the end.
I'd have understood if she said she was done because she couldn't stomach being with him any more while he was married to Yeonhwa (and So sleeping with Yeonhwa was a betrayal of their relationship, even if it's demanded by history).
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EliRod
November 1, 2016 at 4:23 AM
@pogo
Hello Pogo! That's ok, we don't have to agree every time! :) I usually agree with your posts but oh well there is always a first time. I read your earlier post and I read about Chaeryung but as someone else wrote (sorry I forgot who :( !! ) HS being like that for Chaeryung ah is exactly the same essence of what WangSo fall in love for her. She sees beyonds people actions, she grasps her feeling to those people. She saw beyond him killing all those monks. I can see that she understands why he did it, I can see that she not even once has disagree about why killing her, but HOW and that changes all for me. Even the next day we can see her coming around, looking at him in a gentle way, holding his hands, UNTIL he said lets not be angry for something TRIVIAL.
I know that the writer did a terrible job of showing the relationship of Chaeryung with HS but she has been her friend, her little sister since the minute she arrived to Goryeo. I thank the writer for a flashback that for me was very clear when she said "I know she was being sincere". She is not referring that she was honest with her all the time and she was not a traitor, she means at that moment when she hold her hands, support her, and shared her feelings with her, she could see she was being sincere she felt that Chaerung also love HS.
Even if the relationship wasn't well developed something that I completely agree. Was Eun and So relationship more well developed? So has said countless of times his only people are Baek and HS. When did Eun come to the equation. If this shows has taught me something is that blood relations means nothing. So when did Eun became a more little brother to So than Chaeryun to HS?
HS lied by omission, did not tell WS Eun was at Damiwon, went behind his back and tried to plan an escape and he died like and animal being hunt. He blamed her and lied to her and left her for 2 years. She threw her away at the moment for the throne. For her not to be used by Yo, for him not to be controlled by Yo, because is the most logical thing to do.
WS lied by omission, did not tell HS Chaeryung was a traitor, went behind her back and executed her like an animal. She blames him (because he literally gave the order to kill her) and wants to leave him. She is throwing him away for him to be ok, for her to be happy, because is the most logical thing to do.
I am sorry, I tried, but I just cannot understand why is Eun any different. Yes, Eun wasn't a traitor and Chaeryung deserved to die, I agree. Even HS agrees.
Is the way the she died that she cannot accept even I can accept the way that she died, I get the era, Im actually thankful not to died steamed. But I can really understand why this is the clear sign that HS is not doing any good for WS as the king. She is not preventing anything about him being a Bloody emperor. She realizes that. She is starting to hate the man she loves and she hates that, she doesn't want to end up hating him, so she...
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 6:56 AM
Bringing Eun into the equation as someone So was upset over vs Chae-ryung as someone Su was upset over, is a completely false equivalency.
For starters, Eun is So's ACTUAL BROTHER (vs Chae-ryung, who never at any point was presented as Su's equal, a confidante or even anything other than a servant with whom she was chummy), and the show actually acknowledged that relationship and built up Eun as a character. While this "Chae-ryung is my sister" nonsense is something Su didn't even start with until after she was caught and punished. Guess which relationship feels more authentic and less spuriously spun as a narrative convenience?
And more to the point, Eun was completely innocent of all wrongdoing surrounding his death, while Chae-ryung is a duplicitous liar and unrepentant murderer who has the gall to say she "regrets nothing". More than anything, it's that innocence that devastates So when it comes to Eun's death. Lying traitor Chae-ryung isn't even close to being the same for Su, no matter how many delusions she persists in believing.
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banini
November 1, 2016 at 12:37 AM
Please, don't be angry with people here who do not see things the same as you do. Given how the story is presented confusingly at times, it's not surprising that we will see and feel things differently. I don't think anybody here is delusional - we are just different people with different experiences and expectations.
It's okay to be angry with the characters in the drama and hate the things that they do. But I hope we can refrain from judging commenters here for not agreeing with us. If misunderstood you in any way then I'm sorry :-)
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 12:58 AM
Seconding this. It's not fair to direct your anger at other commenters or accuse them of misogyny simply for not seeing a fictional character, whom the story is presenting in certain very confusing ways, the same way that you do.
The last thing we need is for everyone to start turning on each other.
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EliRod
November 1, 2016 at 4:42 AM
@pogo
I apologize for that. I will not direct my anger to commenters.
That’s why I started with this phrase ?
“AM I the only one angry at people getting angry? haha Catch22!”
Is a Catch22 because when Im being angry at people at people getting angry then I am being angry at myself as well ?
"The last thing we need is for everyone to start turning on each other." haha you are right! just like Goryeo!
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 5:18 AM
I don't blame you at all for being frustrated lol. This drama has gone out of its way to do just that, and we're all falling neatly in the trap.
And speaking of everyone turning on each other, I can't believe there was a time when all the brothers more or less got on and only Yo was walking around being an asshole. Now everyone left alive is an asshole to some degree or other...... except poor Baek-ah, who really is too good for this sorry lot.
(I still have to say it, though - Eun and Soon-deok's death scene was more touching)
EliRod
November 1, 2016 at 4:39 AM
@banini
Let me first apologize if my comment came around to angry. I'm not angry about people who do not see things the same as I do, but I can get why is exactly how I sounded before and I apologize for that. In delusional I was referring to the people saying "What has HS ever done for WS? She doesn't trust him at all. She is never there for him"
I was referring as "delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary" (wikiped) Sorry for the simple source haha. And sorry if it came around as an insult. I respect the different opinions an interpretations but hearing some people makes me feel like I am watching another drama.
That's why I started with this phrase :)
"AM I the only one angry at people getting angry? haha Catch22!"
Is a Catch22 because when Im being angry at people at people getting angry then I am being angry at myself as well :)
I apologize if I judged commenters here, I guess I should've specified that it was mostly some comments on twitter and some other comments here. This will sound so snobby and I apologize for that beforehand :( but as a doctor and minor in psychology this defensive behavior to an abusive relationship really worries me. This lack of understanding and judging a person that want to get out of a relationship that is not good for anyone is a big concern for me. In a society way, not in a personal way, yes it's just a drama, but I have so many patients that are influenced by the media everyday that I cannot be blind to all the factor that influenced my patients. I am sorry, and I apologize for bringing career in here, is not meant as anything else than the exposure I had with patients that I correlate some comments.
I will refrain from ranting and redirect my rant to my pillow haha :) Thank you and I'm sorry.
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Mara
November 1, 2016 at 8:02 AM
I agree. That relationship is a sinking ship and it's only getting worse. The best course of action is to end it. Although Hae Soo's character could have been better developed, she made a good decision in this episode.
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62 bebeswtz
October 31, 2016 at 9:13 PM
I'm so done with Yeon Hwa: Before, I still had an inkling of respect for her for having so much respect for herself as a woman in Goryeo time and being so independent, headstrong, and knowing what she wanted; But after this episode, I'm so done with her...
Wook would not have come to this point if he, himself, did not have an inkling of desire and greed for the throne in the first place, so the plight that he is in right now is all his fault and no one else's, so it makes my blood boil even more that Yeon Hwa had the audacity to put everything onto Su's shoulders T.T I'm not surprised at So's reaction to (finally) finding out that Su's old "lover" was Wook, it just sucks that it IS Wook since Yo and Wook were and are the ones, in comparison to all the other Princes, who were most greedy for the Throne, and Wook is the only one still living out his greed and politically and privately maneuvering things for his favour... I say "privately" because I honestly feel and think that the move that Wook did in telling So about his past relationship with Hae Su was all a political move on his part and that he was using Su T.....T It just didn't give Wook the outcome that he wanted, which isn't the problem, if it had not implicated Su altogether as well =(((( I think that Su, up until now, still chose not to tell So about who her last relationship was with-- because So KNEW she was with SOMEONE before she was with him-- is because she still holds the fear that So is going to go after, and possibly kill (like he said he would, even if he said it passively as a joke) that person if So were ever given a name; That's the thing about Su: It's not that she doesn't love So, it's not that she doesn't trust him, it's not that she doesn't love So enough to stay with him and possibly die for him (as someone misunderstood in one of my previous comments on a previous recap), it is that she is scared for So that he may one day go on a killing spree, and she doesn't want that for him, because: 1. She doesn't want So to regret it, 2. She doesn't want So to end up being all alone because he grew up being alone and unloved, and finally 3. She doesn't want So to attain his power and seat of the throne through means of bloodshed, especially the blood of his beloved brother T....T
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63 Jungjung
October 31, 2016 at 9:24 PM
OMG!!! GUYS! SBS JUST RELEASED THE EP 20 PREVIEW!!!! I CAN'T BREATHE PEOPLE!!!
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StarryNight
November 1, 2016 at 5:09 AM
Ooh, I just saw it now myself.
And according to what I've seen online, there are 2 additional episodes that are listed as "specials", so I'm thinking these are (probably set in the future) and are going to help tie up the series.
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WishfulToki
November 1, 2016 at 4:20 PM
Specials?
First reaction: Groan.
Second reaction: I'm such a sucker, will probably watch this.
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64 MS
October 31, 2016 at 9:30 PM
I just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed and appreciated HeadsNo2 recaps and all the great in depth comments. My Monday and Tuesdays evenings have been consumed with this show and chat group. I has been great. It made the show more understandable and at times bearable. I will miss you all. For no other show have done this or endured do much. I only wish the show had been longer, the writing, directing and editing to be more consistent. Despite this, all the actors worked hard and did a great job. May they be recognized for the superb job they did given at times the choppy mess the production made.
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65 Ahri
October 31, 2016 at 9:33 PM
*sigh* I wonder what happened to the sensible, clever Su that I was hoping would show up. I get character consistency, but what's going on with her is Su just plain not growing up. Not learning anything, not adapting. She has been there for many years, long enough to learn and make the best of her situation. The one bright point here is Lee Jun Ki, loved the evil sneers he's flashing now that he's Gwangjong. The ratings are doomed but at least LJK's career is booming like crazy regardless.
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Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 9:48 PM
Interesting, because I find Hae Su to be her most sensible in his episode. She had a goal at the beginning of the episode: Leave the palace. And now she has. She recognizes the changes in WS that are unacceptable to her. She knows the body count is piling up. She's taking herself out of this abbatoir before she hates the love of her life. If that's not being self-aware, idk what is.
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Ahri
October 31, 2016 at 11:50 PM
See this is her problem. The changes in Wang So. Never her. Always judging other people, but when she had that moment of realization that some of the stuff might be her fault she didn't dwell on it obsessively like she did with So. She was Prince Mu's loyal friend and Chae Ryung killed him, but it's So's fault for dishing out punishment. Finally, FINALLY coming to a solid decision to leave isn't self awareness for her, it's more like she's leaving because she's tired of everybody else's drama. Again, it's never her wishy-washy fault.
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66 ck1Oz
October 31, 2016 at 9:40 PM
Thank god it's ending. I just want to reach the ending to see if the Kdrama version has a happier modern ending.
It's been torturous following this drama.
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67 alasecond
October 31, 2016 at 9:45 PM
BTW,
the chirpiness and radiant skin when HS is leaving the palace..
should i place it on bad acting or that HS was indeed so so so happy to leave, marry jung.. and although voiceover is there.. but the face doesn't have even iota of longing for the lover she is leaving behind
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68 alasecond
October 31, 2016 at 9:51 PM
If i have to rewrite this drama..
I would totally turn this into brokeback mountain with WS and BA
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Jamie Opso
October 31, 2016 at 10:02 PM
...but they're brothers!
Your comment made me lol/gasp.
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Ira
October 31, 2016 at 10:06 PM
well, So wed his half-sister, so.....
I thing this drama has made me go to the deep end, haha
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joongibae
October 31, 2016 at 10:40 PM
*ready to jump into the WS-BA ship*
My bad but I teared up during the WS- BA's moment of 'farewell' with him calling the king 'Hyung' again but not really during Hae Soo's farewell voice over.
I'm desperate to get So some love he deserves, I know... :p
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WishfulToki
November 1, 2016 at 4:21 PM
Farewell... but Baek-Ah didn't go nowhere did he? What was the farewell for?
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69 Anonymous
October 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM
What's with this episode? Seriously. The storyline is bad. This is not a quiz show right? Why do we have to make our own assumptions on why HS left the palace.
Is it because she doesn't love WS anymore? Or she just can't accept WS change of character?
Or maybe she thinks that it's her fault that all of the pince died?
Because of chaeryung (this is unreasonable cause WS already gave an explanation on why she's punished and this HS still sticks on believing what she believe ughhh so frustrating)
Oh Hae soo-ya. I thought you were better than this. You said you wouldn't leave him. But look who broke her promise first. Aigoo. In the earlier episodes i can still justify your actions, but now i don't even know where to point out the reason why you did such thing. Sorry i cant defend you this time. You went back and forth with your action and decision so i dont know exactly what you want.
My only hope is for the final episode to be a happy ending. PLEASE. I'm already so dissapointed in this episode. THEY DON'T DESERVE ALL THIS SADNESS FOR GOD'S SAKE. I blame the writer for all this. You're more evil than the evil characters you created.
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mary
November 2, 2016 at 11:16 AM
This is not a quiz show right? Why do we have to make our own assumptions on why HS left the palace.
I'm late reading all the comments but yours made me LOL so much
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70 alasecond
October 31, 2016 at 9:55 PM
Also,
spotted fashion trends..
****************
EAR-RINGS
YH: two mismatched earrrings .. ( and you thought its a modern fad)
HS: ear-ring in one earlobe and none in the other..
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Makeup - mask/soap/BB we have seen it
Eyeliner for men ( we can so launch this in real time.. given men as category have become lucrative lately)
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71 Jamie Opso
October 31, 2016 at 9:56 PM
I am currently watching Jealousy Incarnate alongside Scarlet Heart, and it is messing with my brain. The love triangles! Bad boys with hearts of gold, golden boys with hearts of darkness, sometimes incomprehensible or infuriatingly obtuse women as the main love interest.
In my mind I am seeing a mashup of giant-ego first male lead anchorman/king Hwa So; second male lead jealous gentleman Jung Wook; facepalm-worthy love-puppy Hae Ri (or Na Soo, take your pick); and shrewd, ambitious anchor/queen Yeon Hye.
Evil Queen Yoo is already in both shows.
Scarlet Heart begins with a bad boy, shows us his good and swoony side so we fall in love with him, then has him turning bad again (or still). Jealousy Incarnate begins with a bad boy and shows us his good and swoony side so we fall in love with him--only I'm not so convinced that mean/cold streak isn't still there and Show isn't dealing with it. (Drama vs. rom-com?)
Of course, stakes are a lot lower in JI and Hwa Shin doesn't have that much power, except over Na Ri's bruised heart. Scarlet Heart, meanwhile, is totally dealing with the fallout of loving someone who's not so good and has almost total power over us (and letting us feel the cold wind blowing through the hole it tore in our souls). Those alpha males!
The gentlemen get a little ugly when they're jealous (ok, a lot in Wook's case), but just as Wook got a graceful closure from Scarlet Heart, I think Jung Won will redeem himself in Jealousy Incarnate.
I think after the bleak tragedy of Scarlet Heart's Goryeo days, we'll get to a fluffy pink sendoff in modern days just like the one waiting in Jealousy Incarnate, though. Right?!?!
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pebble
November 1, 2016 at 12:47 AM
I love the ingenuity of your mashup.
Hwa So; Jung Wook; Hae Ri; Yeon Hye; lol
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Jamie Opso
November 1, 2016 at 8:53 AM
Thank you! :)
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72 Beanies206
October 31, 2016 at 9:57 PM
Decided to watch the show early this week so I can jump into the comments.
1. Annoyed with the different versions going around. Watched the international version and read HeadsNo2 (thanks for the recaps!) for the missing gaps. With the different editting, I have intepret the show differently.
2. Definitely watching this show for Lee Jun Ki. He is definitely captivating on screen. Personally, i think So just need somewhere who can love and stay with him. I really want to give So a hug and lots of love.
3. This brings us to Su. This character is really frustrating to me since the beginning of the show. With being involved to a married man (Wook) despite being cheated before, being uncharacteristically unmodern despite being from the future, shifting feelings from Wook to So and finally not trusting/being loyal to So. However, I think Su meant that Chaeryung was sincere at some point in time and therefore treats her like a sister/friend. I do love IU and i think she did well as bright Su especially the heartwarming scenes with all the princes. But i think the character is badly written.
4. I am also impressed with the performances of Kang Haneul, Hong Jong Hyun and Yeonhwa (not sure who is the actress). These three antagonists help to make the show interesting in the very least. The change in Wook's character was fascinating while Hong Jong Hyun impressed me with his evil/mad acting. Yeonhwa might be a thorn in the flesh but i think her character is written better than Su.
5. Will never get over the incest part. Shudder.
6. Why did (almost) all the princes falled in love with Su? Is she the ony woman in the palace? Made me appreciate Baekhyun's love story even thought the backstory seems to be unnecessary.
7. With 1 more episode to go, I fervently hope it will end well. Not sure how it will go down but I iust want So to be happy.
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73 uchie
October 31, 2016 at 9:58 PM
Thanks for the recap...
The preview seem tragic. Just watching it make me crying...
The fated made they love each other, but couldn't be together. I will not hope to happy ending. I will enjoying and accept whatever the ending is. Too tired cause from begining this show took a lot of my time with all the emotion their gave. I will watch tonight episode so i can comeback to my daily routine....
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74 altruysm
October 31, 2016 at 10:01 PM
Okay so Yeonhwa's intent in getting help from Wook was pushing So to the point where he wouldn't want Su anymore? By having Wook confess what he and Su had together? I mean yeah that hurts but people are allowed to love others before another. So could've just said okay well that was back then. Even though he kinda always had feelings only for Su, Su has had split feelings for So and Wook... I guess I can understand So.
I mean So is losing EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. After seeing what he's been through in his life, everything always ends up against him. His mom throwing him away, his desperate yearn for her attention, watching her die in his arms. Having the king he truly followed (Moo) die before him. Having the grand general leave him as soon as he's crowned because of his past and what So represents. Losing Baekah, mostly his accompanying support, after today's episode. Losing Su again and again. Gotta feel for the man.
STILL THOUGH, it's interesting how So treats everyone. If he wants them to be near or far from him, he gives them the same decree. Be confined to your home forever. Stay with me forever, you can never leave me. He holds everyone hostage, something he despises since has been in that situation his whole early life. I have mixed feelings being supportive of him in his hardships, but then thinking well maybe not.
In the end though it is Su's fault right? WOOOOOOK!!!!
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Jamie Opso
October 31, 2016 at 10:10 PM
"STILL THOUGH, it’s interesting how So treats everyone. If he wants them to be near or far from him, he gives them the same decree. Be confined to your home forever. Stay with me forever, you can never leave me. He holds everyone hostage, something he despises since has been in that situation his whole early life. I have mixed feelings being supportive of him in his hardships, but then thinking well maybe not."
Lovely observation, altruysm! We're often told that some people who have been abused grow up to be abusers in the same way. (Not all! Not most! But some.) It takes a lot to move away from that script, no matter how much you might want to. Did they have therapy back then?
It might explain, though never excuse, abuses people commit as adults.
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75 Lessa
October 31, 2016 at 10:02 PM
Sigh. I feel like Im just barely hanging on just for LJK. The story of BBJX really cannot be contained in just a few episodes. I am angry that HS' breaking point was Chae Ryung and not the loss of her baby (or anything else, really)... I am sad they made WooHee suicidal for.... politics? (In the C Version, she killed herself in order for her kid to be adopted into a better family, plus she was bullied by the first wife.) There was so much... depth of the characters in the C Version despite it all ending in tragedy. With this, everything still ends tragically, but heavily seasoned with frustration.
I don't blame the actors for this. You can only do so much when you're handed such a storyline. I think they did what they could.
I did like the goodbye scene between Wook and Soo, though. I dunno, probably just me. It was a clean break up. And they looked at each other like they completely forgave each other for everything. It even made me think there might be a chance for them.
OST for todays episode: "Bad Blood" by T Swift and "Rolling in the Deep" by Adele.
Sigh. One more episode.
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76 Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 10:04 PM
It's me, your resident Hae Su hype man.
HS does truly love Wang So, but she is not willing to stand aside and allow herself to be consumed by the way of his life. She is not willing to stay by his side, consequences be damned. I don't see that as a stupid character, I see that as a woman keen on keeping herself intact. I keep seeing comments about how sad it is that HS is leaving WS because she doesn’t love him or understand him. I think she’s leaving him because she DOES love him and she knows him all too well. Here’s are major complaints from viewers:
1. Hae Su should have understood Wang So because she has been with him the most. Her understanding should have allowed her to continue to be in love with him. When a person loves someone, aren't you suppose to accept the good with the bad?
Maybe. This is an ambiguous question and more of an aphorism than logic. How much bad are you suppose to accept? How much bad can you bear before it drives you insane? That is a question every relationship test must pass. Is there more good than bad? Is the bad worth the good. Only our heroine can decide what her limit is in a relationship, we don’t get to decide that limit. For me, it is enough that Hae Su knows her limitation and is bailing for her sanity.
2. Hae Su never takes Wang So's side.
Hae Su has taken his side plenty of times. She proclaimed him king. She covered his scar so that he would be successful at the rain ritual. She subsumed her identity in order to be with him. She lied to herself that she could be with a man who was in a polygamous relationship with another woman (YH) who’s hell bent on destroying her. THIS MESSAGING IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. You cannot change yourself for a man, you will only be ruined in the process. Hae Su tries to fit into the palace, but her very essence does not belong there because she does not hunger for power. She is not interested in gaining a position so she will always be vulnerable. Has Wang So been able to protect her? He’s kept her alive, but there’s not much else for her to live for other than seeing him. And that’s simply not enough to sustain a person.
Just because Wang So loves her and will not let her go does not mean that his love is inherently GOOD. This is the difference I’m parsing out for you. We can see that WS’s love is actually obsessive (as LJK has said in interviews past) and suffocating. Once she entered the palace as his woman, there was no hope of them ever being equal ever again. He cuts her off from every line of information and communication, “to save her” but also to restrict her freedom, which is the one thing she has told him she absolutely cannot live without. He ignores this because he’s desperate to have her forever. Is this desperation love? I think it's the only kind of love WS is capable of because he's so messed up from Mama Yoo. But yes, he feels like it's love. But Hae Su feels it as suffocation.
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Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 10:05 PM
3. Hae Su is a hypocrite for forgiving CR and not forgiving WS
There’s no line where Hae Su says CR is forgiven for her crimes. That Hae Su feels sorry for CR is part of her personality. She is an empathetic person able to see CR’s plight. She was able to do it for So in the past: when he killed those monks, when he had to kill Eun, when almost everyone in Goryeo tells her that he’s a terrible person, she tells WS that she KNOWS he’s a good person. This is the problem though, because what HS considers to be a good person is absolutely not what WS considers to be a good person.
From Overthinkingkdrama here:
Soo has become a shadow and a type of every influential, wise, gorgeously flawed woman she’s been forced to watch go before her. She is Myung Hee, trapped in a failing body unable to offer anything but comfort to the man she loves as his heart gets further away from her. She is Court Lady Oh, calling her former lover Your Majesty, serving him as she gets mocked and bullied by his other woman. She is Soon Deok and Chae Ryung too. She is every one of them, dying for the men they love. She too is being crushed beneath the ever turning wheel of this monstrous patriarchy. To keep from being devoured, all she can do is flee the palace.
And don’t try to argue to me that Soo is changing first, that So is staying steadfast while she is giving in. So threw Soo away when he picked the throne, it’s just taken her until the end of episode 18 to realize it…and he still hasn’t realized it. At least he won’t admit it to himself. Like his father before him, he doesn’t realize that love has been lost until it has been lost utterly.
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Jamie Opso
October 31, 2016 at 10:14 PM
Seltzerwater, you are the best Hae Soo explainer. :)
When I am trying to figure out why Hae Soo does what she does, your posts help immensely. Thank you!
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azurebliss
October 31, 2016 at 10:36 PM
I absolutely love your defence of Soo.
This may be far fetched but this me brings back to the Yongpal days. When everyone was blaming the director, writer, and at to some extend, even the heroine, aaaand let's not forget how people claim that Joowon carried that show alone same for LJK for this drama.
No matter how much the drama got criticized, no matter how much hate it got, I was invested in loving it to the very end. I have my thoughts that can't be conveyed due to my limited vocabulary, so I thank you for not just being Haesoo's voice, but also mine, as well to those who truly believe that HS may not 'kick ass' or play Goryeo 'Game of Thrones', she still has her reasons and she has been consistent with her personality.
I think that HS is an XSFJ, the nurturers/defenders or consul. She takes care of people, she sees the good in others, being loving and warmth are the essence of her being.
YES! Chaeryung is a spy that killed Mu etc, but Haesoo remembers CR as her sister, she remembers CR as the person that stood by her when WS married YH. CR was blinded by love and went beyond to prove her loyalty towards Won, however I do strongly believe that if Won were to ask CR to poison HS, she would have backed off completely. Maybe even chosen death.
I DID NOT say that HS is perfect, or even the show for that matter, but ML is special, and I'm ready to ball my eyes out for HS in the finale. I hope the death scene will be as good as Lady Oh's.
So yeah, just my two cents.
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Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 11:17 PM
Omo, thank you so much for your kind words!
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Ruby
October 31, 2016 at 10:48 PM
I agree with your analysis.
Wang So is starved for any affection so he greedily holds onto anyone who loves him. You are either with him or against him.
He claimed Hae Soo first. "That girl belongs to me." "You are absolutely my person." He even told her she couldn't leave or die without his permission.
He shows her how much he loves her by drinking poison, saving her from the gallows etc
Everyone with half a brain can see he loves her and would do anything for her.
At the same time, So also expects a lot from her. She is his lover, companion, friend, stabilizing influence and mother figure. She is expected to be with him always, take his side always etc.
But he lashes out at her and cuts off ties when he thinks she really didn't love him but Wook.
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JoyBells
November 1, 2016 at 12:03 AM
@Skltzerwater
Yes! Yes! Yes!
You wrote down everything i wanted to say so beautifully.
I have been frustrated with Su multiple times over the drama but at this point i dont blame her at all. True love may be epic and grand but it shouldnt come at the cost of completely consuming oneself. Su is now acting for herself and no one should blame her in wanting to save herself. Soo demanding her to stay beside him in shadows,comforting him while he goes on to build an officially family with YH is nothing but selfish,greedy on his part. He is now an obsessive,controlling and jealous partner. Cant even even call him as her partner because they will never be equal now.
I love what you wrote about So being the shadows of all the former ladies. Every single one of them was damned because they put theie love above themself, giving up their self respect,dignity,pride and ultimately their lives.
No Su needs to get out. Forget avout past promises and sacrifices,she doesnt owe Su anything.
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77 Lincoln Gu
October 31, 2016 at 10:05 PM
I think the writer is a genius.
Judging by all the comments here, there is no OTP now already.
Everyone is jumping ships and shifting sides depending on their own views.
We are all as naive as Hae Soo, selfish like Wang So, and as broken as Wang Wook.
At the end of the show, we will end up hating and feeling sorry for everyone.
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uchie
October 31, 2016 at 10:13 PM
I agree with you. The writer made me rooting for this show, even this is the failure drama still i watch and obsessed with this show. Even made me stress and brokenheart still i can't not watched it...
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sancheezy
October 31, 2016 at 10:17 PM
imo it's a loooooose writing,
that's how everyone can form a pack and choose what character they want to choose/root since we can fill the gaps with our own interpretation and deemed right,
especially with the drama that never confirms anything, fas interpretation will gonna get accepted more
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78 kenz
October 31, 2016 at 10:20 PM
I can't deal with people still excusing Haesoo's actions with the 'she's a flawed character and flawed characters are good!' logic. That doesn't mean she's well written.
This show is FULL of flawed characters and Haesoo is still a flat, one note protagonist. I don't get how anyone can genuinely root for her character, apart from wanting her to die already out of pity because that's the extent of my feelings towards her. If anything, I feel like So/Soo shippers only like them since the show tells us that we should since they're the main couple.
I would've liked this show better if Yeonhwa was the protagonist. At least she has consistency and is an interesting character (+also a better actress) enough to carry the show, even if I want her to be burned in the deepest pits.
The excuse made for Haesoo is that she's a compassionate and a genuinely good person who will forgive everyone even human garbages Chaeryung and Wook, so explain to me how she can't hold So in that same standard? Haesoo has learned nothing, and ep19 drained down the littlest development she had. She's a plain stupid, badly written protagonist, not a ~~ooh flawed and interesting~~ one.
I'm still ?? at her reaction when Chaeryung died and even finding out she caused the deaths of her friends. 'She was just a person in love' what was Soon Deok then? Eun? The innocent people who died bc of her 'love'?
I still can't believe they killed almost all female characters in the show and couldn't make an effort to make the main one a believable protag, yet Wook and Won are sauntering around unscathed.
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79 Ruby
October 31, 2016 at 10:24 PM
I just want a happy ending for Wang So and Hae Soo in the 21st century. It definitely sucked for them in Goryeo.
I guess people are frustrated that Soo doesn't seem to love So as much as he loves her. Perhaps part of the reason lies with the actress. Anyone acting opposite LJK will definitely be overshadowed. He is the best actor in the show and can convey a myriad of emotions without saying a word.
Unlike many viewers, I did buy into the romance. Soo was a spunky sassy teen when the show started but grew into this sombre timid woman who tried to blend into the background after Lady Hae and Lady Oh's deaths. She merely existed. She said things to drive away So because she didn't want anyone else to be hurt on her account.
Yet she fell in love with him. It's conveyed mostly in what she does - desperately hugging him from the back, sneaking out of the Damiwon and sleeping with him, swallowing her pride and rejecting his proposal, trying to co-exist with YH when she didn't even have a damn title aside from King's woman, trying to prevent him from shedding anymore blood (of course that failed miserably) etc etc.
Just because she doesn't proclaim "I love you" or "You're my person" to So and be all over him in public doesn't mean she feels nothing for him.
She's no longer the young Hae Soo who could be spontaneous and blurt out things. We can still see a glimpse of the old Hae Soo though during the festival and at certain moments with So.
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Seltzerwater
October 31, 2016 at 10:33 PM
Oof, this journaling of Hae Su's changes makes me sad. Goryeo has really broken her spirit.
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KK
October 31, 2016 at 11:17 PM
I love this comment so much. I totally bought into this romance, too, but I think a huge flaw was that time jump.
I binge-watched the drama this weekend and I think watching the episodes back-to-back made it glaringly obvious how little time they spent developing and focusing on Su's feelings for So versus how fleshed-out her romance with Wook was.
We were told rather than shown that her feelings had changed and she was in love with So, and that was a huge misstep for this romance after spending so much time on her thing with Wook.
I still loved the romance and was on board with So and Su pretty early on because I felt an emotional connection between the characters that I honestly didn't feel between her and Wook, but that time jump was one of the worst decisions imo.
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pebble
November 1, 2016 at 1:30 AM
Just because she doesn’t proclaim “I love you” or “You’re my person” to So and be all over him in public doesn’t mean she feels nothing for him.
Well said. Whether it in Goryeo or in modern times, possessiveness leads to the imperious way of demanding that others love us the way we want them to.
Everyone knows this, but how many fully can accept it in reality?
Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.
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WishfulToki
November 1, 2016 at 4:28 PM
@Seltzelwater: 'Goryeo has really broken her spirit.' Yes, but Hae Soo was already a broken person in the present... was this her second chance and it failed? If so I am tempted to quote Wook on this show: 'Fate? This is all because of Fate? Pfff'
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80 Hyagr8
October 31, 2016 at 10:43 PM
I normally dont comment. But this show is just full of angst that I cant help but vent out. I thought the main point of this show is the love of Su and So. How Su was able to win So's love with his persistence and stubborness. But when the episode finally came that he became King and it finally seems that both of them will be together ( and have it all) that's the time that the story shifted on how to take everything away from Su. Everyone just keep on leaving/distancing themselves from him or dying, starting from the general, Jung, (even) his mother, Baek Ha and now So! I think the goal of this show is to see how much more pain Su can take before he breaks down or became crazy.
Also, don't get me started on So. Why is her love to Su so lukewarm? It seems to me her feelings were more deeper with Wook. She was able to believe in Wook despite of his evil ploting and even throwing her away.BUT with So, eventhough some of his actions are justifiable, Su easily believes the worst of him and easily lets go. Sometimes I just want to reach into my laptop and slap some sense on her!!! Wake up girl! This man is yours! You need to show him more affection. More love. More anything!!! Dont just stand there with your blank face and give up!!! Argh!!!
The stress of watching this drama is really getting me!!!
The few seconds it took me watching So (supposedly) consummate his marriage with that b$$ch HW amped my stress to never before reached levels. I wanted to take off my eyes and boil it in bleach. I want to unsee that scene. Why oh why did you do it So? Before, no matter how "evil" you are in other aspects of your life, I always thought that your love for Su was pure and faithful. But now, nothing is sacred anymore. Not your love and definitely not your body!
I think with just one episode left and with so much unresolved issues, the only way to have a happy ending is for Su to go back to the present and maybe meet a present Su and get their happy ending there. Otherwise, this show will all leave us in tears, in pain and crying out for justice to our time spent in watching this show.
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81 Jat
October 31, 2016 at 10:45 PM
So and Soo. Their love is facing a crisis and shall become stronger if it stand the test . I believed Soo tried her best when she was with Wook And So. So should have discussed with Soo about CR before toturing her,..Why?? Because Soo cares, if So cares about Soo 's feeling, he would have told her. I mean, Soo was OK when he married YH. It supposed to mean something, it means their level of trust for each other was deepened.
I mean.. If he had married YH without confronting the issue with Soo, she would have had left him. So was conflicted about protecting his throne ( it shows when he was alone) and marryng So but it was Soo who pushed him to make the best decision for them. Because she trusted him. If he had told her about CR I believe Soo again would have make the best decision his best ..
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82 JoyBells
October 31, 2016 at 10:58 PM
With this our Su-Soo ship has sunk to the bottom of the ocean.
I however dont understand the criticism Su is getting. Looking from her perspective i completely understand her actions. Epic romance and One true love may be grand and everything but at this point its time for some self-preservation and self-love. This place has brought her nothing but misery,pain,heartache,deaths and torture. I don't blame her one bit for wanting out anyhow at this point.
And its not like she didnt make sacrifices for this relationship,all those years she waited for Soo hoping against hope that all the misery would atleast maybe result in their happy ending. But now Soo is married and he can't jeopardize his position in anyway. I dont blame Soo for marrying,he did what he had to do. But things have changed. Su right from the begining didnt believe in polygamy and she has made it clear. Soo knows that and now has not one but two wives. When he got married to YH,he knew what he was giving up. He cant have both ways. A wife with background for public show and his "love" in the background. There is no future for them anymore. At the best she would be what Court Lady was to Late King Taejo. Love is inportant,but to sacrifice your entire life for a man,serving him so he can go and do great things like takingan official wife and planing heirs while you wait for him in a pretty pink room. No thank you.
I feel her anger towards Soo isnt just Chae-ryung death, but its a multiple of small things. She saw how CR love for that sly prince completely consumed her and that Prince didnt even look a bit remorseful for her death. That's why she feels so pitiful towards her.
As for Woo-hee. Wtf. I dont understand why she commited suicide. She was needed now more than ever to negiotiate things between the King and her people. And in consideration to Baek-ah, Su would have probably listened to her too. Maybe she did feel guilty over killing that minister and having a sense of abondoning her lineage to marry Baek-ah,but to kill herself over it. Huh. And this was the girl who was planing to stab the former King in middle of a dance routine. So much for guts, courage and strong will.
Atleast Wook and Soo got a nice farewell. Sorry Wook for hating on your weak arse past few episodes. I kinda feel sorry for him now. Also why was Su so mad at Soo regarding her past,its not that she lied or anything,she did mention she had a lover. And its not even now,its in the past. Sigh.
At this point i just want Su to get away from all this misery and heartache and travel the world like she told her buddy Jung.
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83 PreciousLoaf
October 31, 2016 at 10:59 PM
Who's ready for 21st century Ha Jin to get nearly run over by a car and just as she's yelling at the jerk who doesn't know how to drive, out steps So? :P
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sancheezy
October 31, 2016 at 11:06 PM
Comment was deleted
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voice
October 31, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Ahh I just can't wait for 21st century Hajin. please just die already
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84 FreeCats
October 31, 2016 at 11:12 PM
When this drama first started we always had grand commenting parties. I think at this point, most people just want it to be over. I am exhausted rooting for Su. Is she supposed to be a smart girl? But she gets into these court intrigues when a little discretion would have saved her. Listening to Lady Oh would have saved her. Is she a compassionate girl? I don't know, she had a blind spot for Chaeryung and showered her with affection. She also had a blind spot for So and treated him with suspicion when a little understanding would have been useful. Her character's a mess tbh. The only consistent thing about her is her inability to make rational, stone cold decisions.
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85 gracefulegg
October 31, 2016 at 11:15 PM
So after watching all of these episodes I finally realized something. The best parts in this series are tge ones that are pulled directly from the first show. The walking in the snow, the kneeling in the rain, the boat, ect... It is like the screenwriter took those scenes plotted them to the episode count and then tried to make the story make sense in the new historical concept but you know without pacing or emotional pay off. This episode is a prime example Su wanted to leave then she was "convinced" that it was all her fault. Shouldn't that have been the other way around she becomes convinced that everything is her fault so she tries to leave So, the classic nobel idiot actions you know instead of just well idiot actions. This is just a confusing show that is so frustrating because I can see how it could be better but it is not, so much potential and talent.
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86 Yoyo
October 31, 2016 at 11:17 PM
You can't always get what you want but you can always get what you give.
Here we are nearing the finish line but it seems like this race was always only intended for one person to finish. They say it's not about winning but the journey one takes before the race, and such was the case for both Wang So and Hae Su. How malicious has fate been with these two that no matter how they tried to fight the love they believe in, unfortunate circumstances befell them and it was one grueling hurdle after hurdle? Why you gotta be so mean, fate? Hae Su was never meant to trudge this path, no matter how serendipitous it was for her to have crossed paths with the princes of Goryeo. Yet here we are, faced with the impending doom of a tragically ill-fated love that was never supposed to be. Are we that senile to continuously believe that all good things come to those who wait? How many more trying years does one Hae Su need to endure?
The race is over and done with. Wang So got what he wanted and it wasn't his heart that won, rather his greed. The very monster his mother engraved in him is the one who whispers the need for power and attention. What we chose to see was the man who tried to be someone the people around him would accept. That we would accept. We chose to see that person who covered up his scar to hide his painful past and that all the hurt he endured, the loneliness he felt, the sacrifices he made was for the greater good. We're no different from Hae Su thinking a person who has gone through a great deal of pain and suffering can be embraced by love and love alone. Love won't be enough. To him, there is always a need to prove that he needs more because he received less, for him there is a need to prove he is right because he was always wronged, for the him there is a need to win, because he was always the loser and by doing so, the very people who trusted him and believed in him, one by one are creeping out of his life, embarrassed by his very existence and his selfishness. Such illogicality can only bear more hate, disappointment and resentment from the people that once embraced him with unconditional love.
But the moment where Wang So got what he wanted, was the very moment Hae Su knew that it was payback time, regardless if threats were still abound, he's still the king, THE KING. Wang So was deluded in his own selfishness and greed. He bullied his way around the very few people that really understood him, sticking in a wedge so deep, no amount of "sorry's" can make up for, but it does serve him right. Had he given Hae Su, Baek-ha, Ji-Mong and even Jung a little trust and sympathy, he wouldn't have had to be all alone. He needs all of this to realize what really matters in life, maybe his realizations will come too late and that's just simply life's way of telling us, we can't always get what we want, but we can always get what we give.
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Napkiin
October 31, 2016 at 11:27 PM
Such wisdom Yoyo, such wisdom.
I got emotional just reading this! I kinda felt bad for So in this episode, when Baekah confronted him So kinda went "crap I messed up". Well too late for that.
In the end he probably will die all alone, and in his death bed he'd mutter the name of the woman he gave his entire heart to.
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kumoiwa
October 31, 2016 at 11:29 PM
You can't ever gain anything without letting go, but So has presumably realised that a little too late.
Wise words, Yoyo!
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Ruby
October 31, 2016 at 11:50 PM
So true Yoyo.
Love isn't enough to heal Wang So from his emotional and psychological wounds.
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pogo
November 1, 2016 at 12:11 AM
Great analysis as always, Yoyo.
We've all been so invested in this romance because we WANTED it to work, wanted love and good intentions to defeat power, wanted So not to be the monster everyone else said he was at the start, even if we knew tragedy was coming. We've all been standing in Su's shoes (hence the frustration when she follows thought processes we don't understand, like not condemning Chae-ryung/insisting she was sincere and wanting to leave because of her punishment rather than the more obvious and far more understandable reason that the man she loved was becoming someone she didn't recognise).
It took the loss of Baek-ah to make So realise he did mess up, and that was too little, too late.
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pebble
November 1, 2016 at 1:02 AM
The very monster his mother engraved in him is the one who whispers the need for power and attention
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. The double whammy for So is while he was busily fighting the external monsters, circumstances turned him into a monster, and the internal monster engraved in him also possessed him from within, leading to the inevitable tragic estrangement from those he loved.
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Jamie Opso
November 1, 2016 at 5:32 AM
Beautiful post, Yoyo, and so insightful. This especially:
"To him, there is always a need to prove that he needs more because he received less, for him there is a need to prove he is right because he was always wronged, for the him there is a need to win, because he was always the loser and by doing so, the very people who trusted him and believed in him, one by one are creeping out of his life, embarrassed by his very existence and his selfishness."
So is someone who feels like the ultimate victim (and he was viciously and unfairly victimized, no doubt about it!), and now that he has the power he can justify any amount of oppression and predation of others. We want him to be bigger than this, or to be healed by the power of love, but it just isn't happening.
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87 Myuu
October 31, 2016 at 11:34 PM
No, we are all waiting in vain. Despite thinking that the throne would solve everything, it is the one that will destroy everything. So and Soo are done with the Goryeo era and there will be no hope anymore. The only thing we can hope for is a better life for Go Ha Jin in the present day and that eventually she will find the happiness she'd been waiting for a thousand years.
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88 Celia
October 31, 2016 at 11:49 PM
Sharing this great site for Moon Lovers: Scarlet heart ryeo spoilers. Aside from my favorite Dramabeans, this is my go-to site for Scarlet heart Ryeo infos. :)
http://www.joysofasia.com/moon-lovers-scarlet-heart-ryeo-finale-spoilers-speculations/
As per the Joys of Asia Blog site, we should expect a happy ending.
#ScarletHeartRyeo
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89 rhiaa
November 1, 2016 at 12:01 AM
Ha. Thank you for this recap, Heads! I loved the confusion and the sarcasm smattered all throughout the recap, and especially in that final picture--I wonder what it represents? Hahaha.
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90 AgentRiyo
November 1, 2016 at 12:07 AM
Freaking Wook who had a part in killing a king and implicating her by stealing her hangul book gets some sort of forgiveness from Soo. But So was a monster from the start even when he wasn't doing anything. But king-killer Chaeryung was a sincere little sister to her. I just cannot even with this character. Soo always held So to a different, stricter, colder standard it seems. Everybody gets her soft side, except So.
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91 mai-mai
November 1, 2016 at 12:21 AM
I don't get why they made the Soo a lame and stupid girl. Argg!!!!
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92 Ren
November 1, 2016 at 12:31 AM
I think Moon Lovers is interesting because it introduces us to the typical damaged male lead and romanticises this all encompassing self-sacrificing possessive love between the OTP, which would in reality be completely unhealthy. But it's a sageuk and our characters are always in the face of death, so as an audience we're allowed to revel in this epic love story. At the same time though, Su behaves like she's not in Goryeo, like it's beyond the bounds of reason for So to exercise his rule and cutting down traitors in on par with the course of being Emperor. She's acting like she's from a world where you would dump a partner for being overly possessive, rather than the world of extremes where someone drinks poison on your behalf or gets exiled to simply stand with you.
It doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that Su comes from the 21st century for me as much is seems to be do with the fact that So and Su are in contextually very different love stories. They're operating on different plains with different terms and it's narratively unfulfilling.
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Jamie Opso
November 1, 2016 at 5:41 AM
@Ren
Your post leads to a question that's been on my mind for a while: Why do so many romances feature "the typical damaged male lead"? Why is that romantic at all?
Is it because it makes the female lead that we identify with "special" in being able to heal the damaged man with the power of her love?
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93 Gidget
November 1, 2016 at 12:43 AM
My conclusions:
The recap is hilarious.
Su's logic is so circular that it makes me dizzy.
I wish Yeonhwa would throw herself off the palace wall.
Wook's headpiece makes him look like a dumb peacock.
So is a bad negotiator. ('If I give you everything you want and get nothing that I want in return, will you do it? Wait. That's not fair. Let me give you time to think about it.')
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94 YY
November 1, 2016 at 1:11 AM
What I learnt from watching this episode:
1. Make soap while the sun shines.
2. Behind every great man is a miserable woman.
3. A single candle is worth a thousand images.
4. "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin
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PakalanaPikake
November 1, 2016 at 8:34 AM
@YY,
ROFLMAO!!
Thank you... I needed respite from the migraine that I've gotten from trying to understand Hae-Su.
As for Woo-Hee, I have no idea why she killed herself. Makes no sense to me.
I'm awarding her only 8.7 on that swan dive. Her form was terrible...
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95 Lucky
November 1, 2016 at 1:27 AM
I seem to have reached a point where i think anything that happens in this drama is pointless. It has lost my interest. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way. With all these talent at work and having preproduced it, this is what they came up with? Well, despite all this i am sticking till the end anyway. If only to see how disappointing or satisfying the finale is going to leave me.
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96 junah
November 1, 2016 at 1:27 AM
with bad narratives came one after another, it's just impossible to empathize with everyone any longer. the only appealing scene from last night episode was whenever Su-Wook scenes. it was interesting to see both Su and Wook told each other exactly the same thing; in order to move on, you need to let everything go. we loved, we hoped, we tried, we compromised, we failed, and now it's time we surrender. wook-su relationship has come in full circle, lover turns enemy turns friendship (kind of ^^). and i will be more happy, if the scenes happen during wook waiting in death row.he still needs to redeem his evil deeds. it's just annoyingly unfair for CR went through such tremendous torture when Won and Wook just get an easy pass like that.
So, oh, So..if jung, wook, and baek-ah can understands Su reason for leaving the palace, how is it very hard for you to?
for everyone in Goryeo palace who want have happy ending romance, just stay away from royal bath. nothing good comes after spending time there.
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Jamie Opso
November 1, 2016 at 6:01 AM
@junah: "it was interesting to see both Su and Wook told each other exactly the same thing; in order to move on, you need to let everything go."
I think Wook got to that point precisely because that's what Hae Soo told him in the throne room scene, after risking her life to change his death sentence. Wook realizes she risked her life to appeal his sentence--he even asked her "what if people start suspecting you?" She did this, knowing she gained nothing by it, and at considerable personal risk.
This was in direct contrast to his earlier behavior when Hae Soo was sentenced to death, and Wook stayed silent and did nothing.
You could see Wook deep in thought in that scene and in his home. Wook had a change of heart, finally, realizing his quest for the throne was at an end, and told So the words he needed to hear to release Hae Soo. Wook surely knew that So could kill him in a fit of rage and jealousy. He finally risked his life for Hae Soo, and even allowed himself to look like a petty, vengeful, despicable character while doing it: the complete opposite of his usual mode of operation (self-interest disguised as a good person). Wook got no personal gain from it (well, aside from some petty emotional vengeance over So): he knew his sentence would not be lifted and he risked a painful death at So's hands. He could have played it safe and stayed in his home, saying and doing nothing else that would get him in trouble.
At the end of the episode, when Wook came to see Hae Soo off to bittersweet freedom from the palace, he came full circle in repeating Hae Soo's words back to her: let go and move on. It's a way to finally pay his debt to her.
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PakalanaPikake
November 1, 2016 at 8:43 AM
Thanks for pointing out that Wook finally stepped up to the plate and returned the favor for Hae-Su's intervention with So on his behalf... and allowed himself to look like a bum in the process.
I'm glad there was some redemption for Wook -- but IMHO, it's not enough to offset his fatal machinations against Mu, Eun and Soon-Duk. (I figure his initial betrayal of Yo cancels out what I've always presumed to be his later poisoning of Yo.)
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Jamie Opso
November 1, 2016 at 8:59 AM
I agree it's not nearly enough, balanced against all Wook's sins of omission and commission, PakalanaPikake!
But it's probably enough to let Hae Soo and Wook heal from the messy, protracted aftermath of their long and complicated relationship.
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97 banini
November 1, 2016 at 2:36 AM
Somehow So is quite lenient with Jung. Yes he denied him visit to his dying mother which was harsh, but this was after he already put him into exile for openly doubting the king (with the clans in tow). He disrespected him and even thereafter he challenged his authority by showing up in the palace vicinity not just once.
I have the impression that So still saw him as a pesky little boy trying his patience, and it was this little boy who took his lady away. If it's any consolation at least it was Jung who did that since he sure would be good to Hae Su.
Just three more hours!!!
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98 JoseMiro
November 1, 2016 at 2:44 AM
One thing I don't get it.. why the warning of HS to Wook become her fault for Wook's changes or for everything that cause brother kill brother happen ?
So .. what was the warning about ? "Be careful of 4th prince, do not block his way, people/you will get hurt", this warning?
Isn't it the same with warning "Be careful on the street, do not play on the street, people/you will get hurt" .. so.. if some dumb people decided to roll over on the street and get hit by the doomed of truck, it's all fault the one who give the warning?
This writer .. really .. can she think about something more logic for the blaming game .. tsk
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Mano
November 1, 2016 at 3:14 PM
Well I mean during this time period wouldn't you be paranoid? Remember how many times Jimong said be careful of what you say in the palace. I think he referred to that, you can tell how quick rumors spread and that theres no law and justice here. If the king says you are put to death you are put to death. The reason why Wang So framed Wook was because he needed a reason. If he killed Wook without giving the people a reason, then he'd be considered a tyrant. Everyone in the palace has to watch their backs 24/7, so I actually understand why Wook changed. Soo lead him on, thats why I feel like its her fault. Like the time when Soo said it'd be fine for So to take her back to the palace, and she made it evident she was afraid he'd get hurt. And she never did provide an explanation to Wook after she realized So wasn't all that bad. Most of the things that happened, was because Soo never properly communicated with anyone, heck she doesn't even really attempted to reason with So. I think people who get upset with the choices some characters make, shouldn't compare their logic to reasoning today.
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99 Lessa
November 1, 2016 at 3:00 AM
Its almost the end, guys! We can do this!
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100 JoseMiro
November 1, 2016 at 3:19 AM
As many as already state, there's a difference core value between HS and WS, I understand HS perfectly .. well.. more less ... I guess
Why she disagree with GJ action for punishing CR and Wook ? it doesn't mean she not know or okay with CR and Wook wrong doing but it just because she don't want GJ be known as bloody king who cruel,injustice and ruthless
What's the reason of CR punishment for public record ? it's because she gossiping around the palace, not because she kill the past king nor treason, and for that she got beaten to death like dog
and Wook? it's because the dead of falcon (framed by GH himself), he will charged for treason and killed, not because he's the master mind behind Mo, Eun/SD killing. Sentence him for these crime,punish him with fair and just than I bet HS will not against his action, If she does, I'll fly to SK and kill the writer myself :))
With this evidence, how history will record GJ reign ? He seek revenge not justice, it's an eye for an eye .. it's okay for that time period, but for this 21st century? World will be blind if this motto still exist.
Two wrong don't make a right ..
peace .. let's enjoy the last ride .. by the end of this episode tonight, I'll will be free from this curse and I'll get my life back
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