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Open Thread #312

 
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I popped on to DB at 3.30 (UK time) and...no OT! So I thought, maybe it's not Friday?

Because of course, the calendar of my life is measured out by Dramabeans IT'S TRUE

Then I checked, and it is Friday.

Korean class started this week! I tried to get a headstart on learning the alphabet so when I flipped open my textbook, I could actually (slowly) read chunks!

Early on in my kdrama life, I decided I was never ever EVER going to watch a melo, because why would I want to rip my heart out?

Then I started watching Secret -_- (I must have been suffering Two Weeks withdrawal). And every episode brings fresh pain and then multiplies and then promises more, WAY MORE, before dropping your heart like a discarded rag and grinding it under its heel. Sigh. But now I'm in for the long haul, because DAMMIT after what it's put me through, I have to get some payoff. At the moment: I despise whatsisname, Bae Soo-bin's character, jerk boyfriend, and I hate Ji Sung...Min-hyuk? Yeah. Ugh. But I'm more and more interested in Shin Se-yeon, who seems to be the only decent character with her head screwed on right.

Question: my friend thinks Baby San-hee is alive (based on ep5) - what do you guys think?

But hey no, srriously! Where is OT! It's nearly 5! Maybe javabeans and girlfriday are getting much-needed sleep. Those Heirs recaps were fast. Are OTs automated posts or manually done, I wonder?

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Secret - That baby is very much alive! Drama has said so in many ways, too many hints of grandpa talking about not holding it, mystery death and the biggest, the grandma guilty reaction while drinking, she had that child adopted, I can bet money on that. It's horrible but it makes total sense with her story.

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Yes I believe the baby is alive. I think Granny disposed of the baby so that her son could find another girl with no strings attached. Now that his girl friend has done his time ( unknown to her) she feels her son is too good for a jail bird. I also think the scar the baby received will be a big clue in locating the baby. Granny and her son are going to have to pay for a lot of their misdoings. I find this drama as exciting and interesting as Ice Adonis. I think I just like good girls who love completely and the, " I love you for the moment" men they have in their lives.

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The also show too much that blanket with the stars and moon she sewed in jail. That will be coming back I bet on it too!

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Yes, I hope so.

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That's what I was thinking as well!!! There was a lot of foreshadowing with that blanket.

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I agree. The baby is stashed away somewhere.

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My guess is that the girl in prison whose baby died got to keep hers for spying or doing something...she was sold out by her friend in jail.

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I'm watching Secret as well. And I think the baby is alive.

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Saya -

Possibly something wrong on their end. Or maybe, like you said, they were exhausted from Heirs. Did you see, over 600+ comments on Episode 1? Never let it be said that KDrama fans are shy... LOL

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I know, it was insane, right? I don't even have time to catch up on Wed/Thurs dramas until the weekend, so I always miss the window for being in the hype-wave! Case in point: still not watched Heirs XD

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I did the same! I went to look for the OT around the time I'd normally find it and though "hmm... No open thread today?" But then at last it appeared.

Good luck on your Korean classes! Myself I am in need of Chinese classes.. If I can find any that is.

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Did you try online? There's a Korean online resource called koreanclass101.com that is really comprehensive (I feel cheated out of my munnies that my teacher is using youtube videos XD), maybe there is something similar for Mandarin? Also, watching tdramas helps you get a feel for the sound! I started watching Skip Beat on my sister's rec - a fun romcom, I think?

Good luck finding resources! Has your money situation improved?

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Oh I'll have a look into seeing if there is something similar for mandarin.

Yeah already trying to get a feel for the language through drama's, though I feel like I need suggestions. I just can't get hookedd enough on the ones I've tried lately to actually get through them.

I've seen skip beat before. Might rewatch it again.

money has found a solution! My work was kind enough (after being considered by I don't know how many people) to give me some of my wages in advance. Which was really nice of them =)

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That's a relief, about the money! I'm really glad it worked out! I guess they don't want their employees starving on them!

I've only seen one other tdrama, so I don't have any suggestions, but other people might - maybe put out the question in next week's OT? Good luck!

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Haha especially not the foreign teacher! Would make them loose face. But still I'm really relieved that there was possible to get a solution and thankful that they would pay out some money in advance, because it's not something they would be obliged to do at all.

I should and see what appears!

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I've only started watching k dramas a couple of months ago, and am enjoying it so far. I can give you some recommendations for Twdramas though:

Black and White: something comparable to City Hunter

Romantic Princess: similar to BBF (hot guys!)

It Started With a Kiss: TW version of Playful Kiss
They Kiss Again: Sequel to ISWAK [the Tw version is longer, but it's more faithful to the manga and they def. showed more chemistry]

Autumn's Concerto: melodrama

In Time With You: artsy drama (1st 2 eps are boring, but definitely worth the watch when you get through it) - 2nd fav after black and white

Summer's Desire: melodrama

Strange Hero Yi Zhi Mei: Chinese version of Iljimae (I think it's better than both korean versions)

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Another vote for live baby.

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Glad I'm not the only person watching Secret. When I started it, I was like, this is kind of boring, but I kept watching it and now I can't stop. It's weird because this is not the type of drama I would watch, but I can't take my eyes away. I think I'm like you Saya, I need some payoff after all the emotional turmoil.

I thought San Hee was alive at first (because how could they kill the baby?!), especially with DH's mom acting so suspicious, but then when YJ made the cake and collected his ashes in the jar I thought he might really have died. I don't know, it seems too cruel to make YJ believe the baby died only for it to be revealed later he's still alive.

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Baby: Well, honestly, I think the writer doesn't know herself whether the baby is alive or not :--)

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She didn't collect ashes so much as she collected dirt where she thinks the ashes were strewn. I think she left the cake there as some sort of offering (beyond me, but not my religious beliefs).

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Yeah, she collected a jar of dirt.

I don't know why I missed all these suspicious hints when I was watching - then again, I was at work and it took me 1.5 hours to watch 20 minutes, so that could explain it.

At first, the premise seems like it's thriller territory - having just come off my favourite show almost EVER (Two Weeks), I felt I needed another thriller fix. Of course, now I'm watching Secret, I GET the difference between the action thriller and the melo: this is all about what happens to the characters, and what they do to each other.

Still, I do feel that while lots of the events are miserable, that the show *is* hitting a balance in that the Bad stuff isn't purposeless viewer manipulation. Every event is attached to plot mobility and has some role in directing the outcome. I also think, given how it's going, there WILL be a just payoff - it would defeat the object not to have Do-hoon revealed and punished in the end (and of course YJ to be vindicated)...otherwise what would be the point?

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Y'know what's funny....I'm like you. I somehow missed all these suspicious hints too even though I was watching the whole thing. I didn't even think of the possibility of San Hee being alive until I came here, lol. Anyways, I don't think there are enough scenes to support that San Hee is alive but I think there's plenty of vagueness surrounding his abrupt death that hint that something is up.

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I think that baby is alive too. But does the dad, that is, the baby daddy, know it? And did the Chaebol Heir take it?

SPOILER
Also, did San Hee's Appa kill Candy's Appa? It seems like we went from father in law saying I know it was you and that my daughter took the fall for you, to father in law dead. So, what happened?

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I don't think DH knows about the baby being alive, he looked genuinely sad about it even when when he talked with his father. I think it would be too much, after blocking her parole, making her believe the baby was dead? It's too much, doesn't make any sense.

We are talking a lot about the show maybe we should be using spoiler bb code? Do they work here?

[spoiler]spoiler test[/spoiler]

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omg yes - was he murdered but the supposed future son-in-law?

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I thought the chaebol heir took the baby and then no, the boyfriend did it, because of boyfriend's mother and that he killed babies grandfather, so the boyfriend is even more evil than chaebol heir ever thought about being.

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oh my gosh! You guys are just breaking my heart talking about this. I can't watch this...no...too harrowing ........................................................................................................................................................................... I so hope I don't give in and succumb.

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Give in. Succumb. It all works out in the end. #Dramas

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I second that. Give in. As soon as possible. The show is addicting and heart-breaking. The scenes in prison are terrifying.

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Hi Carole!

If you keep putting it off, maybe by the time you get to it, it will have fully aired and then you won't have the harrowing week-to-week wait!

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hey there, Saya! There is something in me that needs to have a week of agonizing between episodes. Marathoning wouldn't indulge that, alas.

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It's true that live-watching has a crazy anticipatey quality that marathoning doesn't. For instance, I watched Two Weeks live, but I waited for Master's Sun, which I think worked really well for the respective dramas, for me. When it's romance, I want it to go faster to reach the most important outcome (some version of happily ever after), but with anything more mystery/thriller, there's something exciting about the actual waiting - time for agonising and speculating and squeeing and possibly losing sleep.

Actually, lies, it's not really genre-specific...just some dramas are marathon dramas for me, and some are lives, with maybe no particular rhyme or reason attached.

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Hahaha, Carole and Saya, you crack me up. I too like to watch live because when marathoning I don't feel that agonizing crack feeling unless it's a really great drama. With Secret, I'm even going ahead watching the drama without subs just because it's so good.

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oh daaaaaaargh! I'm succumbing. Apparently i have absolutely no willpower in resisting harrowing grief and revenge. Count me in.

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hahaha :D

I watch this too. First eps were kind of ridiculous, but now it seems to get more and more interesting (as much as it is possible for melo).

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well....all caught up. Now I'm just waiting for incredibly noble heroine to catch up. (episode 6) Seriously, what a saint. She had me in tears.

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Glad you caught up Carole. This drama's rich for discussion. For those who saw ep 6, I was a little confused by what Yoo Jeong said to Do Hoon. Was she asking for them to break up?

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Yes, she broke up! I loved it. Sorry Day Dreamer, you must be tired of me by now. :) I wasn't expecting that scene at all, it was quite touching with her saying she would do it all over again but they would always be locked in a guilt driven relationship. Also her angry, sad reaction to his absence to her father funeral. The only thing I'd change in ep 6 was, it goes way too fast sometimes. I didn't really get why DH would be asked and accept to work for MH 's group, the comedic song did seem out of place in the lobby and Candy cries in an inhuman way. I do like that actress, lip filling or not, I like her but she should cry like a human, those waterfalls just falling don't look real.

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@ Lixie: Oh no! I'm so happy to hear your thoughts. I know you like the drama too so it's great that we can talk about it because I seriously was not expecting any Beanie to be watching it. Now I know who to look for in OT. ;)

I am also surprised that Yoo Jeong chose to break up with Do Hoon. I mean, I was expecting Do Hoon to ditch her but this is even better because I didn't think she'd get over Do Hoon and that would make it difficult and rather unrealistic of her to fall in love with Min Hyuk. But this is great....she recognizes that Do Hoon is attached to her because he feels indebted and grateful to her and that this sort of relationship is very tiring. Plus, with her breaking up, it shows that she has reached her limit of unhappiness. I thought with even her father's death, she'd still try to be optimistic. That would've been overkill, lol.

I generally like Hwang Jung Eum. I don't care that she has plastic surgery done; I still think she's pretty (especially when she doesn't sport a mushroom bowl cut). But yeah, she needs to cry a little more emotionally, heh. I feel like she's trying to squirt out her tears, lol. She did say in an episode of Happy Sunday that crying is very difficult for her and well, she has to cry a lot in this drama so I cut her some slack for it.

I watched that scene five times to fully get it, lol. I guess Min Hyuk was walking with his entourage of businessmen and suddenly realized his shoelaces were untied. He gets his minion to tie it for him 'cause he doesn't want to rip his tight pants, hehe. But then he notices a worker who's overly bent over and he's like, "What the hell...lemme see who this weirdo is..." but he doesn't see her face and is like, "Oh well, to hell with it" and walks away. He didn't realize it was Yoo Jeong because his reaction to seeing her later in his hotel was of shock that she was in his boundaries when he clearly told her not to appear in front of him again.

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I thought wow, these two women and the limitations of love. We have heroine nobly giving up creepy selfish egotistical Prosecutor for his sake. And we have Se Yeon giving up on Evil soon-to-be-good Judge-jury-executioner-heartthrob for her own sakes.

I gotta admit though. I was so worried Se Yeon and Prosecutor would end up happily together at the end. I found myself fuming that we would end up with Prosecutor (who apparently could only shamelessly love a rich woman) Se Yeon and I'd be stuck in one of those icky forgiveness redemption arc at the end with super-perfect Candy forgiving Prosecutor.

But after Prosecutor killed (or allowed to die) Sweet Ubpa, I got a certain peace. (Yep, I'm obviously a very vengeful person because I so did not feel peaceful about forgiveness...she says again.) NOW, there is no way but no way for Prosecutor to have a good end now. Accidents are one thing, sins of omission are another thing but utter commission of evil WELL....there's no way outta that. I am soooooooo happy. Sorry Dad had to die for me to get the ending I wanted but...oh well.

This drama carries such a strong message that one crime -- which probably had nothing to do with the Prosecutor and heroine in the first place-- can destroy so many innocent people and innocent lives. Of course their lives were pretty problematic to begin with but....ya know... a dead body does kinda amp up the stress.

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Secret's rating is surreee climbing up. I haven't watched it, but the feedback i read on some websites tend to be positive. apparently the Beanies are watching it too. it sounds really engaging despite the first few episodes seeming unbearable. Now I'm really interested and thinking of dropping Heirs instead.. somehow wish DB would start recapping it again or at least make a special OT just like what DB did with Lee Soon-shin. hahahah..

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I obsessively checked for OT then finally wandered off to watch Lily, Marshall, Barney, Ted, and Robin be dsyfunctionally funny. American TV, which I practically gave up for 18 months when I discovered KDrama, has started to get a small foothold in my viewing schedule.

But watching American TV isn't the same any more. I start comparing it to KDramas, and of course find KDramas better. I was angry at "Hart of Dixie" when she decided to indulge in casual sex (everyone knows a proper drama means you have a love triangle that ends with true love demonstrated by a kiss somewhere near the end!)

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'How I Met Your K-Drama'

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haha. that was lovely julia. i'm shocked at how much of a prude k-dramas have made me.

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I love the prudishness. When I discovered K-drama, I felt like I discovered what dating was: in American culture it all seems to be about getting into bed asap.

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Oh how funny they are my fallback friends when I am burnt out on Kdrama. Can you imagine Barney in a Kdrama? It would be legen (wait for it) dary!

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Hi Julia!

I watched the first season of Hart of Dixie when it aired (they told me it was like Gilmore girls LIES), and started the second, but I honestly couldn't take all of the 'oh look, wow, I'm in bed again BUT I DON'T LIKE YOU' so I watched other stuff thinking I would come back to it. But - is it worth coming back to? Does she stop screwing everyone and actually have a story that is worth following?

This is my problem with everything CW. When I heard Heirs was 'like Gossip Girl' (UGH) I almost decided never to watch it, but then I figured the kdramaness of it might offset the comparison. ALSO the CW are remaking one of my favourite 90s remakes, the Tomorrow People. I am scared of it XD

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I own all 7 seasons of Gilmore Girls and want to find a GG house to live in! Have your read/seen Sisterhood of the traveling Pants? (Rory is the main character, too)

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Yeah! I read the books, and then they made the movie! I actually watched that movie years before I watched GG - I discovered GG about 3 years ago? It's one of the very few DVD sets I was driven to buy.

Of course, that was before I discovered kdrama. Ha!

You know what kind of makes me sad? Now that I've found kdrama, which has all that Korea culture embedded in it, especially filial piety which is a big deal in my own culture, there are things in GG, and parts of it, that make me feel much less in love with it (like ugh Rory in the last 3 seasons WHAT ARGH). So sometimes I look sadly at my boxset and think, 'why did I buy you so hastily?' Repenting at leisure XD

Did you read the very last Sisterhood book, which came out a few years ago, Sisterhood Everlasting/Forever in Blue? It was a follow-up to the four ten years after the events of the original books.

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I had to comment! When I heard about an American remake of Boys Before Flowers, I instantly feard that it would turn out to be like some trashy CW program. I don't know how they could do that to the story but I'm afraid they'll find a way just to appeal to a young American audience. I'm scared that so many people's first and last idea of Korean Drama will be based on some wretched, twisted remake. Anybody else?

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Ugh, agreed. Not having watched it, I understand BOF has many problematic elements anyway, so if I were remaking a kdrama, that wouldn't be the one I chose. American remakes of non-American shows are rarely good anyway, so be prepared for the kdrama to be butchered.

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I'd sign a petition for it NOT to be an American remake. What a recipe for disaster.

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Secret has a lock on me now.
I think the tall girl is the killer but things still changing a lot.
Am even suspecting the personal secretary of the chaebol heir now cause what if the victim really was a gold digger and that was his child she was pregnant with, where a DNA test might have given it away. Just something cold and creepy about him some.
Still think tall girl is killer, but will keep and eye on him too.

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She wouldn't even know who the Candy's dad is. It's the boyfriend who was threatened. I know he cracked up, but he was pretty evil right from the start and deserves his deep fall later.

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That baby lives, because it's kdramaland .:-) other scenarios not possible for me.....

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Secret..... im sooo hooked. i think the baby is alive too... he's probably adopted somewhere.

I hate DH, im trying to understand him (bec he is Bae Soo Bin, you know) but what he did to YJ's appa is without excuse..

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I've only seen Bae Soo Bin in 49 Days, so to me, his face is the JERK BOYFRIEND face and gives me the creeps. I need to see him in something where I don't hate his character - do you have any recommendations?

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Well he was prince charming in Shining Inheritance, the best he has ever looked even though I never watch 2 shows with the same actors at once because I find it too confusing.

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Yay, more Beanies who like this drama! I seriously thought a lot of people would be put off by the drama's Candy whereas I was enjoying the performance. So good to know there are others interested.

I actually thought that San Hee died. Maybe I missed something. But it seemed like Do Hoon's parents just felt bad that their grandson died. It was more like they could care less about Yoo Jeong but since her child had their son's blood in it too, then they could care about her too. However, I can still buy into the idea that San Hee might be alive. That would be an interesting twist.

Mostly, I'm just waiting for the fall out between Yoo Jeong and her boyfriend Do Hoon. He is such an ass and doesn't deserve her, especially after that last act of taking away her father to die off somewhere. I'm so angry at that. Min Hyuk may be an ass too but I can feel his feelings wavering so I'm more inclined to like him. Plus, with the way he was worried for Yoo Jeong at the end of ep 5 made my heart beat a little, hehe. For a guy intent on ruining her life as revenge, he sure is passive about it. Only spends his time watching over her.

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Oi, DayDreamer, what are you talking about? :P WE are watching different shows! MH is the king of twisted at the moment! He made sure she didn't get paroled, may or may not have helped baby disappear, bought her building, stalked her. He is anything but passive!

That is btw what I like about the character you know, gloves off, no nice guy pretending to do evil things and only brooding. He was even planning to torture her some more at the end of ep 5, he only saved her because now he is feeling possessive about her, as in "that's my mouse to play with, get away random thugs!". A scene I think get repeated in the end of ep 6 though I haven't watched it yet.

I am also eager to see DH dump her, that will be a turning point for me I guess. If Candy finally goes crazy/bitter/rebel that will mark the show as keeper even if all goes to hell at the end.

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Wait, I forgot something! Remember that scene when MH was requesting a favor from someone in jail? That was about the girl prisoner right? The one who marked the baby so he would get taken away, that was MH's doing too and that was the most terrible thing so far. Worse than that, only if he's in on the adoption which I suspect he is because grandma wouldn't do it alone, would she? Ok, I'll shut up about Secret now, eheheh. :)

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Are you talking about the scene when he was talking to some jail officer? I might have to go watch that because I was kinda watching the episode without subs. I didn't think he was making some explicit favors....but yeah, I'm not sure.

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Yes, that scene. He asked for something in return, something the officer would do for him. What could that be? An officer has no authority in paroles so it's pretty obvious he was linked to the girl who hurt the baby and made them take the child away. I think that is the worst you could do to any mom apart from killing the kid of course. That is why I said he is the king of twisted. :)

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Yeah, I figured the jail thing was engineered by him - they would have promised that dongsaeng early parole or better conditions or something, all to get YJ's baby taken away. That's why I even thought maybe Min-hyuk had a hand in actually KILLING her baby. Originally, I thought he would have adopted the kid himself ('make my enemy's son my personal weapon'), but he didn't seem to know what was going on.

Ugh so many people screwing over YJ. I hope she can find some hardness in her heart when the truth comes out.

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Yeah...I might have agreed that Min Hyuk engineered the event for San Hee to be taken away but I doubt he would have killed it or even adopted him. There's just nothing hinting at that. But we'll just have to wait and see if the writer is withholding information.

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Lixie, we might be interpreting things a little differently. I don't think Min Hyuk is being that twisted. To me, it seemed like he wanted Yoo Jeong to be completely punished by the law at the very least. Here's my line of reasoning (SPOILERS!!!!!):

1. Min Hyuk believes that Yoo Jeong committed the crime.

2. He found that Do Hoon and Yoo Jeong were in a relationship but were pretending not to be so that Do Hoon can handle Yoo Jeong's case and try to get a not guilty verdict.

3. He tries to make sure Yoo Jeong can't get out of receiving her punishment by cornering Do Hoon and keeping control over him. The twisted thing he does here is that instead of letting another prosecutor take over the case to get the guilty verdict, he chose Do Hoon to make Yoo Jeong feel the pain of her boyfriend condemning her to prison.

4. He knows Do Hoon is trying get Yoo Jeong paroled but he wants her to fulfill her entire prison term. Frankly, if someone hit a loved one of mine and ran, I would want that person to serve their prison term too rather than be let out early by parole.

5. There's nothing to support that Min Hyuk may be hiding Yoo Jeong's baby.

6. Min Hyuk took over Yoo Jeong's house when it wasn't really hers at that point; she was in debt once out of prison. He took over her debt and thus took over her house. As he said, stealing her house was nothing compared to what she stole from him. So far, not much twistiness.

7. The twistiness comes when he stalks her. He follows her every move as if to make sure she's not living well after "murdering" his gf. Honestly, I expected a lot more out of this stalking like sabotaging her ability to get any job anywhere so she can't move on and continue her life. And probably being abusive and whatnot, particularly after that strangling scene. For that reason, I felt he was more passive, especially when half the time he was stalking, he was just simply watching over her. Like during the cake scene, I was seriously half-expecting him to get out of his car and stomp over San Hee's cake out of spite. Like, don't drama characters often do revengeful things by adding insult to injury? ;) Haha, it's just that I was expecting more vengeful things and since it wasn't delivered, I felt passivity instead.

Meanwhile, I find Do Hoon a more despicable character. He acts good on the outside but on the inside, he's more concerned over material things and is a coward. Min Hyuk, on the other hand, is more open with his intents. Kudos for honesty?

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#7 - I think that inside, Min Hyuk is starting to have doubts about his plot for revenge, which is why he has not really gone any further in actually making her miserable (if she could get any more miserable).

I also find Do Hoon by far the most despicable one in all this - not only has he betrayed her several times for personal gain, but he a freeking hypocrite spouting off about how the rich get away - and the same time he is aiding and abetting them.

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"that's my mouse to play with; get away random thugs!" <-- hee hee

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I am addicted to Secret, also. Here is the way I see it: Min Hyuk is a spoiled brat who was genuinely heartbroken and dealt with things the way he knew how - by using his power. I feel he is definitely coming around because I think he's realizing it's ridiculous and exhausting to hold on to the anger.

*Spoiler* Do Hoon is the really evil one to me. He did all these things to his own girlfriend. He blocked her parole, he let her take the fall (come on, he could have fessed up), he's still denying knowing her and I feel certain he killed the father, if not personally then by driving him a distance and dropping him off without shoes by the side of the road.

The reason I'm so invested in this show is because I can't wait to see what happens once Min Hyuk finds out that he really punished the wrong person. I think he's starting to feel bad for all he's done to her already, so imagine how he'll feel when he realizes she was innocent.

Oh yeah, and because of Ji Sung :)

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Oh, I know. Once Min Hyuk has Do Joon working in his company, and Do Joon knows all the company dirt, it's going to be really messy for MH. I'm looking forward to that payback.

Also, if anyone is still OT'ing right now, is that chaebol daughter not the stepmother's child?

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The mother's reactions indicate that she's not the girl's real mom.

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Generally i don't care about birth secrets but i understand the k-drama need to complicate matters and bring in other sub-plots. So while i do not care a bit about evil chaebol dad and stepmother's child, I'm anticipating a whole bunch of A) weird family relationships that we never afore dreamed about and B) some major battling between the two male leads and at last the destruction of a kingdom/chaebol empire.

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Korazy Lady, you summed up exactly what I see. I also feel Do Hoon is more the evil one because he's a COWARD. Just because Min Hyuk was pressuring him to not go with the parole, he still followed that suggestion.

I am also going a little nuts waiting for when Min Hyuk finds out the truth. Before that, however, I expect him to fall in love with Yoo Jeong completely and angst over loving the "criminal."

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"I also feel Do Hoon is more the evil one because he’s a COWARD."

This. Because your worst enemies tend not to be the evil people (the Voldemorts), but the most dangerous are the weak ones (the Peter Pettigrews): with evil, you know exactly where you are, you know what they'll do next. The weak ones? You never know which way they'll fall.

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It wasn't just a suggestion, he offered that big case to DH in exchange for blocking the parole. He bought that parole. I'm not trying to justify DH's actions though, he is despicable.:)

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@ Lixie: yes, but the point is that Do Hoon still had choice and he took the selfish way. He is more concerned about himself.

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In episode 6: Was that a suicide note she left? I don't know Korean but who was it addressed to? And whose desk is that note on? Was it the heroine who wrote the note? Will playboy avenger get a chance to read the note? Or will someone else take up the note and read it...thus delaying the revelation?

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Do you mean at the end, where she's clutching her dad's jacket and crying? I went back and kind of scrolled through the episode but didn't find anything except that, at the end - isn't that the letters she sent from prison that her dad kept, and she found in his jacket when she went to wash it? If you give a minute-count for reference, it'll be easier to see!

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You mean the letter with the badge? It looked like a resignation letter from Do Hoon.

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Yeah, come to think of it...it did look like a resignation letter. You know you've seen a lotta dramas when you know what a korean registration letter looks like.

So Do Hoon is now officially part of the chaebol legal team? I've got to aybe look again to see who had the letter and when; i thought heroine or avenger had it.

Since they showed us dad's hand WITHOUT the medic-alert, does that mean Prosecutor is still carrying it around? Would be a stupid mistake to make...if Heroine sees it.

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I have to admit I was put off at first by the complete noble idiocy of the "Secret" Candy, but somehow it just kept sucking me in. Not sure why, perhaps because she is a much better actress than most and makes it believable?

Up to episode 6, and there are already many secrets (hence probably the name - duh). Who actually killed Ji Hee? what happened to the baby? What happened to that evil girl that framed her in prison (I am sure we will see her again). What happened to her dad?

I think it is almost a given that most of us figure the Chairman's hench-guy actually killed Ji Hee, but with all the twists I am even wondering about that. And if so, when will Jo Min Hyuk start getting clues?

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Wait, Ji Hee? She died in the hospital, because she didn't get help in time, that was what was said in the first chapter, there is no way to make a twist on that. Is there???

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I would have to go back and rewatch part of that episode, but I thought she was already DOA when they found her?

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No. she had surgery in the hospital and even talked to him before she died. Since she died because she didn't get help quickly we can say her killer is in fact Do Hoon. He is probably now a double murderer after her dad so he still manages to put king of twisted to shame.

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Who moved the barrel that they hit with the car?
The one they rolled off into the road.
That was clue that someone else was involved at the scene.
Accused made point of asking about the barrel to the police.
Victim died in hospital but was what caused her injuries the car? She died too quick to talk, just said good-bye.

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@ Lixie - you are correct. I first watched that episode while fixing dinner and missed some parts. Went back and re-watched the 2nd half. So yes, that now makes sense, and makes Do Hoon the biggest sleazebag in this drama, besides just being a hypocrite while spouting off about how the rich have different laws.

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Maybe Big Clues -

Ji Hee - Look for bright red umbrella before, during, and after accident

Grandfather - Look for bright blue shoes when he is picked up and after he dies.

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how much do you guys wanna bet that the true killer is the dad? He probably ordered someone to stage the accident.
Honestly. Ji Sung's secretary or whoever he is was at the scene of the crime the same night ji hee died BEFORE the "hit-and-run".
i bet he either had something to do with it or he knows something about it.
Either way, we never see the car hit the body, and again, the body was found laying on the side by the time her boyfriend checked.

This is why if this was true, ji sung's character would have no redemption arc because he's gone way too far to punish the innocent.

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I don't think that San Hee died, but I would not bet on it 100% either. I suspect he is tucked away in orphanage someplace. My question is how much does her jerk (ex) boyfriend know about all this, if anything?

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Given this writer's track record of unexpected twists, im sure san hee is tucked away somewhere and prepped to make an appearance somewhere down the road.

Is anyone else legitimately scared of ji sung's character? I feel like he's a serious sadist/stalker/obsessive psycho.
I'm not really kidding with this.
It's like he's so obsessed with making our heroine's life miserable that he finds pleasure in doing so. I find it so inappropriate when the background music is a romantic ballad when he's stalking her because it's just oddly placed. (Dont get be started on the comedic bgm during a serious moment)
I think the issue here is the grey areas of ji sung's character. What the hell is he thinking? One second he orders a girl to beat her baby (although this is just a strong speculation of mine), the next he takes the initiative to confront her to tell her to stay out of his life when he's obviously the one keeping her in his life.
Another creepy moment --staring at her and her prosecutor boyfriend with -- yes -- jealousy tints.
I find secret so odd. I don't really know what to make of it because it is such a dark revenge/betrayal makjang that seriously gives me the creeps.
I think it's possibly the uneven tone -- they pile on the doom and gloom, they make the heroine's life a living hell. And then they play romantic ballads when he's obsessively keeping tabs on her (those pictures of her on the airplane).
If they really do end up together, that's just one twisted relationship. the hero lost me at the strangling.
I just think this rookie writer needs to wait a bit longer till the tide relaxes before they have ji sung giving googly eyes to the heroine who he wants to rot in jail.
Cause i'm getting mixed feelings all over the place and it's giving me whiplash.
Someone please tell me ji sung's character makes you feel uneasy.

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I am late to this discussion but I can answer.

MH makes me uneasy, yes, but I almost wish he had more of an edge. I picture UTW, for example, play the part with zero sympathy and I shudder.

MH's character has voiced enough doubts along his revenge way to make him less of a threat to me than you what you feel.

His stalking and watching remind me of how cats play with and torture their prey before finally killing it. MH's anger (at his GF's killer, which is really impotent anger at the world, more specifically his father) however, is starting to wear down. It isn't fueling him with the same force as when he started this whole thing. Partly because his fiancee is asking the right questions about his motives and he is rethinking a lot.
The confused music - is this supposed to be romantic? - tells me he has not gone over the edge yet. He is as confused by his creeping sympathetic feelings.

I don't think is he falling in love with her, but he is literally looking at her with different eyes. The old paradigm shift we have heard about for ages. The best example of this was on the plane with the flight attendant, iroke:

He is looking at pics of his GF's evil killer and seething.
Flight Attendant sees a young man gazing at a pretty girl, sizes up the situation before her and concludes it is a BF missing his pretty GF and says as much. So he looks at the pics again. He, for maybe the first time, LOOKS at Se Yeon as an actual person, specifically a girl person, a pretty girl person, and says to himself. "Perhaps."

As time and stalking goes, the person living in the body of his GF's evil killer begins to emerge before his eyes. As if he only saw her originally in B&W and color is starting to show up expectantly.

He is protecting her from other bad guys because he wants to be the only torturer, nobody else. But when he found her on the floor, passed out, her personship was what he saw, not GF evil killer. He is possessive of his prey and feels responsible for it, too.

I don't think he could truly have romantic feelings for her, let alone anyone, until he lets his dead GF go.

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He does make me feel uneasy as he should! Before the show I often wondered why BSB couldn't have gotten the lead but now I'm really glad because Ji Sung is really killing it! When I look at him I see all the small changes jomo wrote about. In just 6 eps he went for the insecure, playful, selfish, chaebol to a bitter guy who went half crazy with anger trying to punish others to placate his guilt. Slowly hid mad revenge turns into an obssession and he starts to wonder when enough is enough. The ballads don't really bother me because I don't think he is in a romantic place yet, he is reevaluating not admiring. I find his reactions rather realistic, yes, it's twisted but humans are like that often.:)

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Excellently said, Jomo! Min Hyuk definitely needs more of an edge....

@ ilikemangoes: I also feel the same way about the background music. It's a little jarring to hear the love ballad when MH hasn't really fallen in love yet. And then that comedic bgm during straight scenes...I just feel like, "Umm...okaaay...what am I supposed to be feeling here??" That's the one thing I wish Secret would brush up on.

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Phew, finally all caught up. I disagree jomo, the bit about how he wants to be the only one to continue tormenting her.

I think in the last episode, there has been a shift in how he views her. As you pointed out, she is becoming a fellow human being to him. He sees her suffering, her loss and she no longer is just the person who killed his lover. His anger after ji hee's death allowed him to conitnue livingand his obsession with making her suffer gave him purpose in life when he had none really.

But now, i think he cant help but be moved by everything that she has had to go through and that he witnessed. And her strength and choices to continue to be bright in the face of adversity and loss surely must make some impact.

At this point, he isnt in love yet but he at least is seeing her as a human being in pain like he was and perhaps now is starting to feel sympathy or pity even for her.

As for do hoon, he didnt start out bad. He did want to take the fall but i guess the decision for her to do it made sense to them as the hope was, he would be able to take care of them when she gets out. He started the on that gentle slope to evil when he chose to agree to deny her parole. Thats how i see it. Ad now, well, no redeeming him after the murder of her father!!

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I agree with everything you wrote, except I don't believe he has completely forgiven her.

There is still some rage in him that he feels he needs to release.

When he starts to actually feel bad about all the bad things, one at a time, then we will see that he sees her completely as a human.

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I dont disagree with that. Its a work in progress i would say but you do see him thawing and perhaps reflecting on his actions now.

I do think, as you do, that he could have played it darker in the initial period when he was all raging and obsessing about making her suffer.

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Okay, now I'm wondering about how deep is the definition of OTP?

Seriously...how much harm is a true love allowed to do to his beloved and YET be forgiven and have all things work out wonderfully and believably?

if heroine finds out what avenger-playboy-hero did, how can there ever be any kind of sane human love? I know heroine has the capacity to forgive great horrors but if hero falls in love with heroine then he will have to choke on the bone. He will have his own secret then, won't he? if she forgives him, after knowing/discovering the truth about him having her son beaten, then she'd be way too holy for my mind to fathom. Is it even possible for these two to get together if she learns the truth? Is it even believable?

Can these two even get together in the end? Would it be believable? Moms do not forgive their kids being hurt..not easily. I'm trying to see a happy together ever-aftering but there's too much bittersweetness already.

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He is not allowed to deliberately cause her father's death to protect his own skin.

When the female protagonist makes a huges personal sacrifice to help her beloved, the beloved is not allowed to extract a blood tax on that sacrifice while patting her back a mumbling soothing words of comfort.

At least the ragefilled mourning soon to be object of affection is honest in his rage, direct in his intent. He has been thwarting her at every turn but all behavior within range of forgiveness. THe most difficult to forgive is setting her up to lose her child.

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Carole -
I am holding out hope against hope that he did NOT order the beating of the baby, that was something that happened all by someone else's desire.

I am hoping all he wanted was for them to be separated.
Still NOT something easily forgiven, though, I admit.

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Friday 11th of oct
Hi beanies! I am in the South, ha. Two days off, and my moms´ birthday is tomorrow so we are going to a concert – Violons Barbares, a french, bulgarian and mongolian guy playing awesomely together. Throat singing and stuff.
Trouble is, it is 22 pm on the 12th, lasts 2 hours and I have to be at work by 9.30 on Sunday. Blah. A train at 5.35 am...
And who tortures people with work on a Sunday anyway? Whatta you know, it is the Seaplane Harbour.
Last Sunday I was in the other part of our museum though, the Fat Margaret, a medieval tower and Maritime Museum. The fire alarm was broken so it went off 8 times. You can only switch it off on the third floor, the ground floor remote right next to us doesnt work....no elevator....steep staircase. so I just took off running, in my socks, like a superfox, every time. Up and down, up and down 3 floors, and the rooms are so complicated one time I barged into the office where the director sits, in my socks, said ups, sorry, and rushed out. Then afterwords they just switched the bugger off.
But the day just kept getting better. Later in the evening I went running and it was a Benny Hill obstacle course: first a 25-meter truck blocks the whole street. Then a triplet carriage pushed by a half blind granny refuses to budge – it is the second time in my life even seeing triplets, what was this? HOW??? Then two guys carrying a cupboard and stumbling back and forth so I can´t get past. Glad it wasn´t a window glass like in movies, though I did expect that to pop out as well. I think they must have played stone-paper-scissors before what to block me with, a window or a cupboard. Then 2 very merry huskies who reaaaaallly wanted to hug me. No, thank you to dog hugs while I am running...or ever, period. Then a cement truck – a friggin cement truck! By then I was like „ what´s with this ... what in the world? Why ME?” and on top of everything I met a drunk cyclist who was all over the road so I barely avoided him. And on my way back 3 cats fighting in front of the house, terrible noise. Gah. What. I tell you it was all planned. My usual running track. On every turn how could they know? They totally planned it. Aliens. Who look like huskies and suck energy out of people when they hug someone. I just know it.
Eventful. Such a drama. I was quite amused though.
But the question today os of a different opera. In one of the previous Open Threads I mentioned, in an answer to someone elses´ post, about how some fictional characters feel so real that you can´t treat them as mere fiction any more. They sort of become almost flesh and bones.
I think it makes an interesting dilemma. There have even been films and mangas where someone falls in love with a fictional character. They come out of the book.... a la Sophies´ World. something that all dreamers dream about. „I wish they were real. Please, let them exist for real!” Fantasizing about meeting them or having them visit your dream, that is so real you kick and scream in disappointment when you wake up. Sometimes leading to some curious pieces of fan fiction. ...
Queen In Hyun Man is a bit like that, I mean, at least Bong Do reads about himself in chronicles. Even weirder ... he is real and in modern world, he shouldnt be. And also, way hard to accept he was just a drama character. HE IS TOTALLY REAL! And from the past. Sitting in the library NOW. Look out for it.
What is your favorite or most memorable film or whatever, where fictional characters DO become real OR someone has a crush on them? Have you ever dreamed of meeting a fictional character and thought it was real? Have you ever had a REAL crush on a fictional character, you know, like a really bad one, and not on the actor but the character? Also, have you ever been jealous towards the other characters that they can meet your sweetheart and you can´t? What character from dramas do you most wish to be real?
I bet we all did when we were children, but... ohhh I totally had a huge crush on the russian version of D´Artagnan. And I mean character, cause to be honest, the actor was ugly. And then Sherlock – I mean, don´t we all secretly hope time travelling was possible, and then you´d go back to discover some fictional characters WERE in fact real people, like Sherlock or Robin Hood, so you could take a picture with them, come back, and say HA! Didn´t I tell you??? And then you beat Robin Hood in archery. Who hasnt wished they´d be able to do that? I did. Even though when I shoot an arrow it flies backwards and arrives next autumn, by mail.
And then we get so bossy. No, you cannot do this or that to this character. Which when you think about it, is ridiculous, cause they are MADE UP. They don´t get hurt whatever you do to them . but yet we cry and beg and treate them as if they were real. I know from kdramas, Su Ha was like that, I felt like this is a character you just cannot harm. To hell with dramatic effect, even if it is your character, writer-nim, you will just not do it. I will go mad if something happens to him.
I think the Flower Boy Band felt so real for me I just had a very hard time accepting it is not a real band. It seemed more real than real. Whyyyyyyy. Why why why. Why is the best band ever just a fictional one. Not fair.
Also, I am now keeping a look-out for the Masters´Sun coffee ghost everywhere, especially student cafes. He is definately sniffing that coffee my friend just left when she went to the restroom, smiling at cute girls. He is sitting next to you nnow that you are reading this.
Oh and it would be interesting to know what kind of female characters our male dramabeaners wish would be real (guys usually give Jessica Rabbit or Sugar Kane Kowalsky.....). what about drama characters though? Is there someone?
Hmmm thats it. Oh, also, I answered to a questionnaire about the three most characteristic things about estonian & south korean men and women. It was difficult.
But for all my woes -dogs, the banglish in Heirs, long days of work - I now at least have a „therapy shot”: Park Ki Woong cameo in Good Doctor. It is like a miracle pill. Insert-melt-recollect.
And. AND. I caught one. The bait: Jung Il Woo on the screen. Left it open at work when I took a break. When I returned, a new potential drama fan was CAUGHT. „how did you find stuff with subs? Can you actually watch this?” HAA. Let´s hope the dramas I recommended do the trick. Gaksital, Two Weeks, Return of Iljimae, Shut Up: Flower Boy Band. Oh I should send a gift to Jung Il Woo. It is all thanks to his face.
Sorry for talking so long again, and peace and love.

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Haha, your running story was really funny. :--)
Now we know those things can happen even outside dramas....

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Agree with you about Shut Up Flower Boy Band! So difficult to let go of that image of them in the final scene, not playing as a band but just as a group of friends and brothers. Brings a tear to my eye :')

Haha Jung Il Woo is great bait indeed :D Oh that yummy man.

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my life IS a drama, stuff just happens. I feel a bit like Truman. Everything is very suspicious!

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As for your question, I'm not sure whether that counts, but Ji Ah's policewoman Bong Sun in "Mee Too, Flower" felt very real for me.

And then I loved Sam Soon, of course :--)

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I agree that Bong-sun was very real. I think the characters in Reply 1997 were so grounded in real life it was fabulous.

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You are superfox to me from now on, fire alarms on the third floor! Haha

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and imagine that with superhero music and in slo-mo

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How can you not recommend FBRS if she was caught by jung il woo??!

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I am taking it one Flower Boy series at a time, I already had Shut Up. so it would have been awkward to list so many Flower Boys. but then again that´s the essential of kdramas.

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A lovely beau-k

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Good one!!

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Have you ever had a REAL crush on a fictional character, you know, like a really bad one, and not on the actor but the character?

I totally had one for the Weasley twins when I was about 15. If they'd been real, I would have married them both (yes, both) in a heartbeat - who wouldn't want to marry someone who'd turn you into a canary on the wedding night?

And I hooked a new drama fan too! Well, actually it was a couple of weeks ago - I told her about this drama where the heroine sees ghosts but touching the hero makes them go poof. Didn't expect her to actually try it, but then at 2 a.m. I got a gchat message that said 'Watching Master's Sun. He's cute!' (to say I was shocked is an understatement, lol)

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Fascinating topic - fictional characters

I like keeping the fictional characters in their world. I wouldn't want to run into them in RL. In fact, many of them I would find quite annoying in RL, even if I can't get enough of watching them in dramas.

I do occasionally imagine different scenarios than the writers wrote for their dramas. There aren't enough cross-over characters that wander from one drama to the next for continuity of the kdrama universe.

For example, I imagine this young man with a part time job (Coffee Prince) who is in college and a rock band (Ruler of Your Own World), but then Dad pressures him to stop playing guitar and drops out, only to have the love of music fester in him until he ends up producing a Kdrama (Marry Me Mary). So in my fictional world Kim Jae Wook is one character spread out over three dramas.

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I'm seriously in love with Hamlet...but then Hamlet loves Ophelia. So I'll have to say Prince Edmund. Although he's kinda a baddie.

I was kinda in love with Data from Star Trek:TNG, and Kim Bung Do in QIHM, and Cha Chi Soo in FBRS.

As a famous fantasy writer has said, women write about male characters they want to f*ck. So I will only say that some of the fictional characters I love are characters I actually have created....for my own pleasure.

Real life celebrities who I've crushed on: Jackson Browne and Jung Il Woo.

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ps..also a crush on Masato Sakai

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Oh, Data! Yes! Me too! Still follow Brent Spiner's twitter. He's hilarious. Love him and Data.

Jung Il Woo's face does things to me I should be ashamed of in my age.

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Do not be concerned with your crush. I am probably older than you yet Jung il woo is one of few actors I adore. I have seen better looking actors than he but maybe something about his smile and his serious look that he shows out of the blue sometimes flutter my heart.

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you know then it is only logical that JIW is the only thing that baits new drama fans.

They should make actual fish bates with his face that you can tingle over the balcony to a group of women and then slooooowly, slooowly guide them int he direction of a poster for Flower Boy Ramyun Shop, or better yet, Unstoppable High Kick, cause I am watching the full series when I have a free moment, and he is already this melancholic, soul-touching creature there.

By the way, everything in that series is hilarious and it is impossible to skip anything so I am having real trouble finishing it. I avoid eating while I watch, all the food would splurt out.

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I'm right there with you ladies with Jung Il woo, lust, er, love.

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Girls girls!! I met him! In real life! And took pictures! And touched his waist! And he touched my shoulder!

So, what i'm trying to say is ... MIIIIINNNNEEEE!! *only slightly crazy look*

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woah lucky! I forgot to mention I saw this guy with a motorcycle who had exact the same clothes and helmet as Jung Il Woo did in Unstoppable High Kick and I totally thought: Yunho?

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but of course it doesnt compare meeting him in person. curious though: which of his roles do you relate to him most? ahh hard to pick right? I would think cha chi soo first then Scheduler....

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Redfox, fbrs is one of my top 5 drama so i would say cha chi soo. I liked 49 days too and just before he came ro malaysia, i watched return of iljimae as 'research' and he was good there too.

I loved cha chi soo's growth in fbrs and how the emotional tone of the drama switched from comedy to deep emotional content in a heartbeat.

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ha yes he is very diverse there and it feels the most "real" of the characters.
but with Unstoppable High Kick I am at episode 123 right now and how Yunho gives his mom the LP and how they reconcile, waaaah! it is so bittersweet. I think Yunho is very much a "real" character as well in that he is just a wild kid with more sizzle, but everyone sees him as the bad kid. ah so heartbreaking all the time. but the truth is in reality moms love bad kids even more

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I havent watched the high kick series althou watching potato star now makes me wanna check it out beyond the little (up to epi 3 ) that i have done so far.

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"As a famous fantasy writer has said, women write about male characters they want to f*ck. So I will only say that some of the fictional characters I love are characters I actually have created….for my own pleasure. "

This I think is very true in regards to male romantic leads. I agree, in my writings I have to love and er, desire, my male lead. That said, I wrote one work as an exercise: I deliberately created a male lead that I personally would not find physically appealing. I had a lot of fun writing that. Totally stoked while writing it, and wow, did the heroine have a lot of fun too.

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the second male lead in my story is totally a hot kozak (ukrainian fighter and charmer) he is also a koldyn or a certain kind of sorcerer whose main trick is to totally twist women around his little finger. but then of course he meets an estonian girl (modeled after a friend of mine), who is never moved by anything, always keeps a serious face - even more stone faced than the Suspicious Housekeeper - and takes no nonsense. she of course twists him around, pokes with needles (she is a taylor) and tortures in every way imaginable.

but there is another character where I seriously had trouble not falling in love myself. mostly because he is a tall flower boy from the marines who has very noble principles - even too much. he is too decent omg why cant he be a bit of a bad boy? seriously. seriously. he acts like breaking the rules is plague. but he still makes me swoon. he is modeled after the guard in front of the presidential palace.

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i am so in love with your second lead character

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I've created a rich chaebol half-korean half french kid named Ben in my present WIP and I am sooooooo in love with him I have to be careful or i start judging my poor husband...who alas lacks much of what my wonderful Ben has.

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you can of course play fun dress-up and try to make your husband look and act like Ben. hilarious game...

hah and the kozak-koldyn is modeled after Koschey the Deathless, and if he gets close to a girl and really starts caring the barb wire around his heart starts to squeeze it. so he can´t NOT be a playboy.

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yeah, but hubby still wouldn't have the money. Or the playfulness Ben has.

Curse that barbed wire! Always something stopping these guys from going all in.

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my character is more like a male version of myself in a world more fair towards my aspirations, sadly, cause I still don´t feel equal. Trying and trying and I never get the same treatment as men. also through that character and the female heroine I am trying to explain my serious and my crazy -wild side. but it is not the main point of the story, I feel like every writer puts everything of themselves in each character and borrows a lot from others too.

but there are certainly people in real life that I admire that I have also used in my characters. Just that Ru is what I could be if the world was fair.

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